New British helmet and body armour

[baboon6]

The British Army will start issuing the new Mk7 helmet and Osprey Assault body armour to troops in Afghanistan this summer. Video on link:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8115327.stm

From the link:







http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif



More than 10,000 enhanced Mark 7 helmets and the new Osprey Assault body armour have been ordered.
The MoD says the new body armour has "all the stopping power of the kit it is replacing, but is lighter, closer fitting and easier to move in".
It is hoped the new lighter Osprey Assault will go some way to answering soldiers complaints about heavy or ill fitting armour.
The new armour and helmet were unveiled at the MoD's DVD 2009 event at the Millbrook Proving Ground in Bedfordshire.
The new helmet will eventually replace the existing Mark. It comes with a new four-point harness to keep the helmet more stable when night vision equipment is fitted to it.
It also has a new gap above the eye to compensate for the helmet tilting forward when a soldier goes into the ****e position before firing, and there are plans to fit it with mounting brackets.
While the ballistic protection of the Osprey Assault is the same as its predecessor, the Osprey, the MoD says the overall fit has been tailored to the needs of dismounted troops, particularly those in Afghanistan.
British forces in Iraq were predominantly vehicle based, but in Afghanistan the terrain and conditions means that foot patrols are far more common.

[Britboy]

Sweet. This is the stopgap (Mk7 SFCT and Osprey Assault) for Combat Arms between the Mk6a and regular Osprey now, until full PECOC comes along, right?

[Red-Phos]

Think i will stick with the BlackHawk plate carrier.

[Britboy]

Eh? You a PF now RP? :p

[Red-Phos]

Eh? You a PF now RP? :p
Piefinder rofl

[Soldat_Américain]

ok then what's an RP?...idk man that vest looks huge and funny.

[Chris O`Crooh]

ok then what's an RP?...

Rookie Piefinder ;)

[Red-Phos]

Rookie Piefinder ;)
How dare you! Im seasoned.
http://www.owensworld.com/funnyimages/files/fatbastard_big.jpg

[a_very_ex_STAB]

The British Army will start issuing the new Mk7 helmet and Osprey Assault body armour to troops in Afghanistan this summer. Video on link:


Oh noes! Airsofters will all have to run out and buy new gear :)

[Hispeed1]

Good to hear this-UK adapting/upgrading their gear to a different theater based on feedback of troops in-country. Last I heard the big Army in the US is still looking at/testing light-weight plate carriers for use in A-Stan.

[Kap]

Dammit I can't see it, not available in my area. :-(

[Soldat_Américain]

Good to hear this-UK adapting/upgrading their gear to a different theater based on feedback of troops in-country. Last I heard the big Army in the US is still looking at/testing light-weight plate carriers for use in A-Stan.
That puppy don't look light weight.

Also wtf, I'm in France how is that video not available in my area.

[Britboy]

ok then what's an RP?...idk man that vest looks huge and funny.

RP is just Red_Phos.

Or Regtimental Policeman.

[Soldat_Américain]

RP is just Red_Phos.

Or Regtimental Policeman.
Yeah I thought there was an or in between pf and rp instead of a now.

[Lasse]

Probably UK only.

[PUG]

Or Regtimental Policeman.

Bleuch... *Spits*

[B_706K]

Yeah I thought there was an or in between pf and rp instead of a now.
I think the original question was an abreviated form of 'Are you a Path Finder now Red Phos'.. ;)

[Soldat_Américain]

I think the original question was an abreviated form of 'Are you a Path Finder now Red Phos'.. ;)
Hey...I figured it out already...don't be thinkin' this yank is retarded...however it was a moment of sucking at life.

[B_706K]

Hey...I figure it out already...don't be thinkin' this yank is retarded...however it was a moment of sucking at life.
Ha ah you had me wondering for a second! But yeah we all have those..

[Britboy]

Didn't mean to cause such confusion chaps and chapesses, just that I've only ever seen phots of plate carriers on the Pathfinder docu and on Prince Harry... And I'm guessing that Red Phos isn't Prince Harry. Otherwise the deportment lessons haven't really done their job :p

[Britboy]

Ha ah you had me wondering for a second! But yeah we all have those..


We call those instants of sucking at life as AS puts it, 'Minor Mong Moments'. Feel free to disseminate that. :)

[Lazy Lob]

Any pics on the mk7's internals?

[Arfah]

Plain tan ? No cam ? At least it won't be Digiflage !

[CMNot]

Thank God looks don't kill, because if they did, we'd be ****ed.

[Soldat_Américain]

So I'm guessing you guys will be switching the Eagle next year then?

[Bee_Gee.]

It looks a bit commercial to me like it's off the shelf.

[Arfah]

I thought they guy dressed up in the gear for the demo was far too scruffy !

His hair is far too long ! Where's general whasisname when you need him ?
:-)

[Lazy Lob]

Thank God looks don't kill, because if they did, we'd be ****ed.

What teh fvck you want D&G? Just pissin about.

[Arfah]

It looks a bit commercial to me like it's off the shelf.

Agreed !

Now we look like a bunch of airsoft walts!

[bazyl813]

New Enhanced Mk7 Helmet.
http://images44.fotosik.pl/152/b4065ed44975b80d.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)http://images50.fotosik.pl/151/bb9e920ff1ad219bmed.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

In my opinion new helmet is very similar to AC900/600 Helmet.

http://images37.fotosik.pl/147/3f581186689f599e.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

[sepheronx]

So what is the cost of the gear total? If it is quite the jump then between the Mk6, then hopefully the price is good too, so that they can equip most to all of their troops relatively fast.

[Bee_Gee.]

Im guessing the vest does not come in DPM.

[brainplay]

New Enhanced Mk7 Helmet.
http://images44.fotosik.pl/152/b4065ed44975b80d.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)http://images50.fotosik.pl/151/bb9e920ff1ad219bmed.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

In my opinion new helmet is very similar to AC900/600 Helmet.

http://images37.fotosik.pl/147/3f581186689f599e.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

That does not look very accessible to medics. Is there a quick release? How exactly does that cumberbund fit in relation to the actually plate? Provisions for E-SAPI?

[PUG]

PHWOAR... Wait til Lerch cops a load of this clobber!

[ARGAR FORKBEARD]

PHWOAR... Wait til Lerch cops a load of this clobber!

Will he spaff in his strides??? lol lol

[Britboy]

So what is the cost of the gear total? If it is quite the jump then between the Mk6, then hopefully the price is good too, so that they can equip most to all of their troops relatively fast.

Err we will probably not equip everyone with this, just those who need it in Afghan.

Its kinda like with wagons. You wouldnt equip all of your Stateside forces with MRAPs, they'd still use Hummvees etc for training and conventional scenarios, all is good. I think theatre specific stuff for theatres only actually kinda makes sense, otherwise we'd spend loads more money on kit that wasn't strictly necessary for those in UK and it would take us longer to roll out new improvements (like this Mk7) to everyone. But PECOC is soon coming which will revamp the basic kit so it is like what you get on tour but for everyone all the time.

[Britboy]

New Enhanced Mk7 Helmet.
http://images44.fotosik.pl/152/b4065ed44975b80d.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)http://images50.fotosik.pl/151/bb9e920ff1ad219bmed.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

In my opinion new helmet is very similar to AC900/600 Helmet.

http://images37.fotosik.pl/147/3f581186689f599e.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl/)

There was a guy over on Arrse who actually trails this stuff saying the new lid is called the SFCT, originally made for special forces for counter terrorism apparently, all very gucci. Will be good if it makes getting a decent sight picture while ****e (i.e. not having your helmet pushed down over your eyes) works - thats the point of the higher up rim at the front, like the new US helmet, right?

Hope they replace the big black patches on the body armour and all. It does look very like they just went out and bought it off Eagle or someone, not like our kit at all. Wonder if the armour filling inside is commercial bought or GB developed...

[Catch22]

10 cells of PALS webbing in the chest... Good luck with that. Whoever designed the cut of the soft ballistic insert is rather unaware of shooters ergonomics. But i spy a modular rank slide tab- so there's an improvement after all. The fastex-closure cummerbund isnt probably the worst idea as well, but it may depend on execution.

Where's QR?

[Britboy]

Can someone here explain the idea behind this cummerbund thing? I mean I have worn an actual cummerbund, but in terms of cummerbund on body drama?

Is it meant to make you more flexible and easier to move your torso, having a chest part and a cummerbund part rather than one big part?

Does it work?

Or does it just result in more stuff around your middle, which is already going to have pouches on the outside of it?

And Catch22 why do you say you think this will be unergonomical??

[Lasse]

I believe the point with a cummerbund is part carry capacity, and part the fact that you can add esapi plates and soft armor.

[Catch22]

I'll do my best to explain BB.

Modern body armor designs employs two kinds of what we call cummerbund in that context - one is an inner cummerbund - and that idea exists for some time now. Usually this inner cummerbund is a simple, wide (3-4 inches) elastic band that is attached to the edges of the back ballistic panel cover, or in case of some releasable vests - it may be and independent element. It is flat, it fastens with velcro, nothing fancy here. This inner cummerbund - it serves two pourposes - it makes the vest easier to don, since it stabilizes and positions the back panel on you, so you can better adjust the whole vest, align and fasten both panels togheter (we are assuming the standard 2 panels, front-back vest construction). The other function is to better distribute the weight of the vest - first, because if the vest is more stable on you, fits closer, and doesn't jump up and down on your body when you move or change position - you are simply more comfortable, thus less tired. Secondly - properly adjusted inner cummerbund takes some weight of the vest off your shoulders and transfers it to the hips in a similiar way the hip belt of the rucksack does (there are some attempts to make an integrated vest build around true ruck carrying system, althought I doubt their outcome). The cons of the inner cummerbund is that it may produce some pressure on your belly, and some say it restricts breathing - this may be an individual question, so generally I opt for an removable inner cummerbunds in most types of vests.

The other type cummerbund is what we see on the outside - outer, modular cummerbund. It may be removable/optional (as it is in Eagle Ind. plate carrier or releasable vests) or sometimes fixed in simplier designs. This serves not only to fasten the vest and secure its side closures, but also is a platform for pouches, holsters and stuff. In newer vest designs the outer cummerbund may also serve as a platform for the side plates (hard inserts). soft ballistic inserts that fit into it, giving more protection to the sides of the vest or a plate carrier (closing the unprotected gap in the case of the latter).

No, its not really a separate "thing" - such as a chest rig would be. Its a integral part of the ballistic vest cover, and it does not, nor should it move around the "body" of the vest.

The outer cummerbunds work well - they give you more "real estate" to mount your pouches and accessories than classic, side closure vest layout. They give you better fitting, more adjustable vests, especially when you design it with Quick Release in mind. They are also the best solution when you need to use hard side plates in your vest. Naturally - there are some other options, but for a moment it is a most universal of the inegrated modular vests layouts. Individual preferences may vary, depending on the end user needs.

Now, why I said it will be unergonomical? Judging by these pics - its far too wide in the chest area for its respective size, good two inches too wide. This will make shouldering the weapons (especially in frontal shooting position, which is optimal regarding the protection offered by the hard plates), and drivig the vehicles rather painful experience, with rims of the front panel restricting your movements, and digging into your arms. It's hard to judge the vest lenght by these pictures - but it seems too long as well, which will effect in vest "standing up" when you sit, kneel or bend. Another typical designer-non-user mistake. There are some other points that raise my doubts - but I'll wait for a better pics to issue any further judgements (what about the peryperies protection, upper arm, collar, groin, belt/kidneys - integrating all these to work sensibly togheter is a real PITA). Overall - it seems more advanced than the previous PECOC model (introduction of the cummerbund), but still its a near miss in my oppinion. The greatest problem now is a shilouette of the soft ballistic inserts - because they determine the shape of the outer carrier. The shape I see know sucks, and without a reliable QR system this vest is still lagging few years behind of what is now a standard.

That be it.

[DPM_Sheep]

10 cells of PALS webbing in the chest... Good luck with that. Whoever designed the cut of the soft ballistic insert is rather unaware of shooters ergonomics.

It's a custom design made by Solo International.... of Hereford, which should give you a clue as to what some of their employees used to do for a living... p-)

Input into it also came from the SFSG. Also it's NOT PECOC.

[Catch22]

That's rather weak point given that Hereford's Sports and Social club seems to be running BALCS type ballistic inserts-based vest for several years now (mainly the MSA Paraclete's RAV from what has been shown to public), which are relatively slim and ergonomically correct - and this thingy here is rather cumbersome. Like I said above, some things in this vest seem better than any of the Brit PECOC or no PECOC propositions before. But some are bull... The shape of ballistic panels are one of the things to be corrected if we want to have a decent vest. From my own experience I can only say that being an outstanding special forces soldier doesn't automatically give you expertise on vest and ballistics design - they don't run courses on that.

[Britboy]

Well cheers for explaining all that, a bit odd to think that the cummerbund is extra armour already over a layer of armour but there we go, I suppose it is all good. Could the potential ergonomics dramas pointed out be the result of wearing the wrong sized vest i.e. should they have got him a medium rather than a large for example? Another thing I noticed is I can't really see a plate over the chest like you can with ECBA/Osprey, although it must be hidden there somewhere. The ability to add side plates in the cummerbund as you mentioned sounds handy - there is supposed to be the ability to add ECBA plates into the sides of Osprey going by what has been said on Arrse to make it very very armoured, this'd no doubt be heavy but could be worthwhile if static/in vehs I think.

[Catch22]

Well, the question of additional soft armor to be put into cummerbund depends on the actual need to do so. I mentioned it as an option, but in fact it's rather something used in smaller plate carriers that offer no side protection, than integrated vests based around soft inserts with overlapping sides. So it's not obligatory - just one of many options that cummerbund layout gives, however not every outer cummerbund variant can hold side plates or soft inserts inside it - sometimes you need to attach extra plate pockets to it.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/238/sideplate1.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/i/sideplate1.jpg/)

Here you can see an detail of the new land forces integrated releasable vest designed by my team - as you can see the external cummerbund holds the side ceramic plate in its own pocket quite thight to the body - you could put a rectangular section of the soft armor in it as well. But if you dont need to - you can go light and get rid of the plate pocket and just leave the modular waistbelt alone.

About the size of the vest - well it might be the case (ie. they wear the prototype sized XXL for the show) but I have bad feeling about this. It happens all too often that some manufacturers and designers create a vest of proportions that would be rather fit for EOD team blast suit than infantry combat. They are driven by noble intention to provide more ballistic coverage, but at the same time they f..k the mobility and combat egronomics. Sometimes is just a simple industry FUBAR - like with USMC MTV's that seem to have confusing size designation - so they were ordered too big in large numbers, before it came up that their sizing doesnt match with the earlier IBA sizing. (hence the fast introduction, and growing popularity of the smaller SPC plate carriers among the USMC).

As for the chest plate pocket - well, there is an adjustable pocket but simply inside of the vest. You have to open the vest ballistics pockets to acess it. But on the other hand - most inner pockets are adjustable for height so you can better fit the torso plate to your build and be more comfortable with it (however there are some safety rules on it).

Using the ECBA smallish hard plates as side plates isn't a bad idea at least from logistical point of view - USMC did something similiar with XS sapi plates for their MTV when worn by very tall folks. ECBA plate was NIJ III class about 1kg each, that's a little heavy for modern plate - you can have a ceramic NIJ class IV plate at the same weight or polyethylene class III at half of it.

[Red-Phos]

There was a guy over on Arrse who actually trails this stuff saying the new lid is called the SFCT, originally made for special forces for counter terrorism apparently, all very gucci. Will be good if it makes getting a decent sight picture while ****e (i.e. not having your helmet pushed down over your eyes) works - thats the point of the higher up rim at the front, like the new US helmet, right?

Hope they replace the big black patches on the body armour and all. It does look very like they just went out and bought it off Eagle or someone, not like our kit at all. Wonder if the armour filling inside is commercial bought or GB developed...I do not want to wear any of those items for 2 reasons.
1.The bloke in the white T shirt looks like a retard.
2. It took the bloke ages to get it all on.

[Catch22]

MoD published better pics of the vest and helmet on their www:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8231/ospreyassault2.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/i/ospreyassault2.jpg/)

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2662/ospreyassault1.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/i/ospreyassault1.jpg/)

Im even more sceptical than I was. But the helmet looks promising, like an evolution of a Canadian Issue Gallet 634, if only they'd figure that it may be a nice to use the ballistic nape pad for it...

[Soldat_Américain]

Honestly with those photos this looks like it would be an older more cumbersome vest whereas in the US we're moving towards mobility.

[Nephilim]

like an evolution of a Canadian Issue Gallet 634,

It´s an AC900 basically by the looks.

Take a look:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/95f2_1fulu.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=95f2_1fulu.jpg)

http://www.abload.de/thumb/96c2_1zqgq.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=96c2_1zqgq.jpg)

http://www.abload.de/thumb/2a1b_1qtd8.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=2a1b_1qtd8.jpg)

[welshmann]

Honestly with those photos this looks like it would be an older more cumbersome vest whereas in the US we're moving towards mobility.

ermmmmm i think the plan was to make it more mobile and not for some guy to use on topcover only read the link and watch the vid

[Lazy Lob]

I'm surprised we've the cash for all this kit. Thursday's BBC1 This Week program with Neil, Abbott and Portillo was excellent with a lengthy discussion on our overseas influence in the coming years. Basically bugger all. No cash and hefty cut backs, Brown is a real gem. Sir Mike Jackson was on as well and very good to say the least.

Anyway good news for NP Aerospace.

[Soldat_Américain]

ermmmmm i think the plan was to make it more mobile and not for some guy to use on topcover only read the link and watch the vid
well I can't watch the video because apparently the BBC doesn't like Brittany at all or something like than.

[Ubar]

I think airsofters are one step ahead on this one... apparently it is manufactured by Condor for soloint, Condor who seem to be known for airsoft kit

[WKD]

well I can't watch the video because apparently the BBC doesn't like Brittany at all or something like than.

Well, it is in France.

[Soldat_Américain]

This was the article on soldier systems:
UK Releases New Helmet and Armor

The enhanced Mark 7 helmet and Osprey Assault body armor, which will provide equivalent ballistic protection to current systems but with a lighter weight and an improved fit were unveiled at the Defence Vehicle Dynamics (DVD) equipment show this week in Millbrook.

The MOD has ordered over 10,000 sets of the new helmets and armor under initial contracts worth £16m, with companies including NP Aerospace, Morgan Armour Ltd, Aegis Engineering Ltd, Seyntex and Solo International Ltd. The 10,000 sets are reported to go to Infantry, Engineers, and medical with all other general purpose forces retaining the Mk6a helmet and current Osprey armor.Just as in the case of the MICH becoming the general issue ACH here in the US, the new Mk 7 is a variant of the AC900/600 helmet worn by UKSF on CT role. Of further evidence of SOF influence over kit design, the new armor carrier is supplied by Solo International (http://www.soloint.co.uk/home.php) located near Hereford, home of the British SAS. However, based on information we have received in the past we do not believe that this new equipment is a part of the PECOC program but rather an interim solution to solve an urgent operation requirement. This would also account for the relatively small procurement.
The new Mk 7 helmet features a four point chin strap for enhanced stability, particularly while wearing helmet mounted night vision devices. Additionally, the front lip has been cut back in order to increase visibility while in the ****e and is reported to include configurable pads like the US ACH.
While we did say that the new Osprey carrier is being supplied by Solo International, it is interesting to note that they outsource their manufacture. Additionally, the UK does not have an equivalent of the Berry Amendment to ensure domestic production of defense textile articles so at this point we are unsure where the carriers will actually be produced. In addition to the carrier, a new, lighter armor plate is reported to be on it’s way to the troops.http://soldiersystems.net/2009/06/27/uk-releases-new-helmet-and-armor/

[Catch22]

I think airsofters are one step ahead on this one... apparently it is manufactured by Condor for soloint, Condor who seem to be known for airsoft kit

Rather UTG/Leapers judging by whats in offer on their website.

[Graspol]

I think airsofters are one step ahead on this one... apparently it is manufactured by Condor for soloint, Condor who seem to be known for airsoft kit

So,there might be a little issue problem for the army,as the arsesofters are getting issued first? Makes all sense of course as they are in a real need of new kit. But how will they know to make it look ally before any real soldier has worn any of it eh...p-)

[Eagle The Lightning]

If the vest does not come in DPM then I think it will look silly, But I’m guessing it does because they can't just have a plain helmet without a cover for it and I would think they would make the vest DPM as well ?

[Catch22]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8118751.stm

The BBC clip works again - it should be accessible to the other countries now, at least in Poland it works ok.

[Hollos]

ermmmmm i think the plan was to make it more mobile and not for some guy to use on topcover only read the link and watch the vidthe new armour ballistic plate is supposed to be half the thickness of the osprey armour and half the weight and the same ballistic protection so that's got to be good news osprey wasn't the best to cut around in, one thing i did notice of that vid is it did seem very fiddly to get all the straps on if ure in a hurry could be a bit of a prob if you get crashed out on QRF :) or youre in a hurry to get it on in the night :oops:

[Ahzarit]

the new helmet is ugly rofl

[DeltaWhisky58]

Now that's what I call a really worthwhile first post - well done!

[vor033]

While your 13,538th post was such an important articulate use of a post a presume ?

[DeltaWhisky58]

While your 13,538th post was such an important articulate use of a post a presume ?

Surely you meant "I presume". If you're going to be a smart arse, at least use correct English - get back in your box :bash:

[vor033]

LOL oh well i am sure i will survive :-)

[PUG]

LOL oh well i am sure i will survive :-)

Be carfull of those airsoft pellets now, won't cha?

[DeltaWhisky58]

LOL oh well i am sure i will survive :-)

I see your English still hasn't improved past primary school level. Surely you were taught to refer to yourself as "I" with a capital letter?

I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms in the Airsoft Forum where the other kiddies congregate.

Goodbye. :bash:

[vor033]

LOL!! :roll:

Well I am sure you are already on there complaining and slagging off anyone who posts anything on there as well !!!!

Mind you,that seems to be the only contribution you actually have on this site but then I suppose everyone has to have a hobby and moaning and slagging of posts is yours :roll:

Goodbye to you as well.

[Soldat_Américain]

LOL!! :roll:

Well I am sure you are already on there complaining and slagging off anyone who posts anything on there as well !!!!

Mind you,that seems to be the only contribution you actually have on this site but then I suppose everyone has to have a hobby and moaning and slagging of posts is yours :roll:

Goodbye to you as well.

wait wtf...he went from 1 to 247 posts in...a day?

[Eagle The Lightning]

LOL oh well i am sure i will survive :-)
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBR2G-iI3-I
roflroflrofl

[PUG]

LOL!! :roll:

Well I am sure you are already on there complaining and slagging off anyone who posts anything on there as well !!!!

Mind you,that seems to be the only contribution you actually have on this site but then I suppose everyone has to have a hobby and moaning and slagging of posts is yours :roll:

Goodbye to you as well.


Oh.

Good.

GOD.

Serious font for serious guy yeh lol.

[vor033]

LOL Soldat Americain, your looking at the wrong one, i havnt just gone from 1 post to 247 in a day i think someone would go blind trying :-)

As for font p_unit_ghetto, unforunatly the pc i am having to use at work is so old an manky i am surprised it still work at all and and keyboard keeps packing up ! So you will have to forgive me for crappy fonts :-)

[Molli]

Yeah, my keyboard does that. Every time I press O, instead of just typing O, it inputs random BBCode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bbcode)... ;)

[California Joe]

LOL oh well i am sure i will survive :-)

Don't be so sure about that, sh*t for brains. Get back in your special lane.

[cbass]

i want digi camo!! why cant we just accept that its better and not try and be different.

[welshmann]

you got to love the school holidays....

[DID]

what's wrong with British and design?
they ordered only 10000 so it mean only a short amount of soldiers will get it, what about the rest.

[Vince S]

what's wrong with British and design?
they ordered only 10000 so it mean only a short amount of soldiers will get it, what about the rest.

IIRC the Brits have around 9000 troops deployed in Afghanistan, so i guess this would cover the whole battle group?

[CMNot]

Aye, the helmets will likely stay in theatre.

Empire on the cheap. Just like the good old days :roll:

[big_les]

What's with the sudden influx of fooktards?

[ARGAR FORKBEARD]

What's with the sudden influx of fooktards?

school holidays!!!

the kids can stay up later and annoy us!!! lol

[B_706K]

What's with the sudden influx of fooktards?


you got to love the school holidays....
Bingo.....

[Bisley_Bob]

what's wrong with British and design?
they ordered only 10000 so it mean only a short amount of soldiers will get it, what about the rest.

The sets are only going to frontline troops. So the only people who will get the kit are frontline troops on ops and those doing pre-deployment training.

[DPM_Sheep]

The solo Vest is an only temporary and only teeth arms piece of kit until pecoc rolls out next year.

According to the guys who've worked on it, the new plate is the pecoc plate but as it was ready now, they didn't see any sense in waiting another 12-18 months and wanted troops to have in theatre asap.

[Paveway]

Anyone checked out "Ross Kemp in Search of Pirates" lately? The Royal Marines were wearing what seems to be this new MK7 helmet, I could be wrong though as it looks pretty much like the AC900.

[Nephilim]

yes it is basically the same, and i guess the marines were indeed wearing the ac900.

[big_les]

Why the feck are they calling this stopgap armour "Osprey Assault"? There's not a damn bit of Osprey in the design AFAICT.

[Paveway]

I didn't know the AC900 was still in service...

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

heres a few pics of the mark7 and osprey assault new prr attachment with noise cancelling earphones and the new respirator for any pests out there.

[Sabre]

Hope it's not as toss as the other solo plate carriers. The plates bounce all over in them, no means to secure them...

So the helmet isn't actually a 4 point harness, it's just the mk6a harness assembly with an extra cross strap at the back.

I'm glad this kit is just stop gap!

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

the pecoc helmet is a 4 point the straps are a bit wierd but seemed okay have a look on the pecoc request thread

[Paveway]

Is that you in those images? How's comfort in all that kit?

Stay safe!

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

no way ive been in far to long to get ****ed to stand with kit on that an exclusive job for the new blokes!

[big_les]

Does "Osprey Assault" have anything in common with actual Osprey?

[mcantu]

that respirator is about 2 sizes too big for that guy...

[Muddlers]

Does anyone know if this uses the D3O (shock absorbent) gel?

Mate of mine is at Sandhurst and said he tried a new body armour on and said it used this D3O shock absorbing gel and it weighs about the same as a DPM smock.

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

dont think the osprey assault doesnt have anything in common that i could see as for the kit not fitting he got given the kit and told to stand there and look pretty no sizing up!

[Lazy Lob]

The liner looks like an old CGF fire helmet design.

[Hollos]

no way ive been in far to long to get ****ed to stand with kit on that an exclusive job for the new blokes!Unless the para reg has changed cap badges and become a fusilier with the hackle :) on the right on top the day sack

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

demo battalion at warminster because theyre armoured and dont have a machine gun platoon we had to go down to man the SF .50 and the WMIK stands.

[aswaffield]

I bought a ac900 back in sept of ebay only for the mod police to call at my door and take it off me saying it should be on a frontline soldiers head rather than mine , i tried to tell him its a ac900 but he tells me its a mk7 . Does anyone know what colour the new mk7 helmets are as my helmet is black and they have been in service over 10 years . Hopefully get it back !

[DeltaWhisky58]

I bought a ac900 back in sept of ebay only for the mod police to call at my door and take it off me saying it should be on a frontline soldiers head rather than mine , i tried to tell him its a ac900 but he tells me its a mk7 . Does anyone know what colour the new mk7 helmets are as my helmet is black and they have been in service over 10 years . Hopefully get it back !

:cantbeli:

One assumes you weren't going to use it in Afghanistan, therefore I fully agree with them. There's far too much kit on ebaY which appears to have fallen off the back of Her Majesty's lorry - obviously some is legit but one helluva lot of it isn't.

Heck - MP.Net's resident DPM-whore (aka Lerch) had Osprey gear before the troops in Afghanistan. I just don't understand why you guys need this stuff apart from posing in front on mirrors.

How long before the first ACOGs, SA80 rail forends, Grip-pods and even Elcan Specter OSx4 sights are up for sale - I hope the MoD-plod continue to follow these sales.

[Royal]

I bought a ac900 back in sept of ebay only for the mod police to call at my door and take it off me saying it should be on a frontline soldiers head rather than mine , i tried to tell him its a ac900 but he tells me its a mk7 . Does anyone know what colour the new mk7 helmets are as my helmet is black and they have been in service over 10 years . Hopefully get it back !

Glad to see that Mod Plod are doing something useful for once.

[Muddlers]

No comments on what I said earlier about the new body armour?

I was wondering if this new PECOC armour is using a mixture of D3o (a material(gel) that is soft and flexible but goes hard when hit or force is applied)

A mate who is currently in Sandhurst said he had the chance to try on a new body armour and mentioned this new gel, but wasn't sure if this was the new PECOC or not.

Cheers

[mcantu]

:cantbeli:

One assumes you weren't going to use it in Afghanistan, therefore I fully agree with them. There's far too much kit on ebaY which appears to have fallen off the back of Her Majesty's lorry - obviously some is legit but one helluva lot of it isn't.

Heck - MP.Net's resident DPM-whore (aka Lerch) had Osprey gear before the troops in Afghanistan. I just don't understand why you guys need this stuff apart from posing in front on mirrors.

How long before the first ACOGs, SA80 rail forends, Grip-pods and even Elcan Specter OSx4 sights are up for sale - I hope the MoD-plod continue to follow these sales.

the problem comes the military adopts an item that had previously been available commercially. AGOG's, forward vert grips and ac900's were (and still are) all on the commercial market long before adopted by any military agencies

[DeltaWhisky58]

the problem comes the military adopts an item that had previously been available commercially. AGOG's, forward vert grips and ac900's were (and still are) all on the commercial market long before adopted by any military agencies

That's not my point and I think you know that - there is a huge illegal seepage of issue kit onto the illicit civilian market. You also perhaps forget that such articles would not be as widely available via UK suppliers as say the US owing to the lack of legally owned civilian firearms which would be fitted with such devices.

[Royal]

the problem comes the military adopts an item that had previously been available commercially. AGOG's, forward vert grips and ac900's were (and still are) all on the commercial market long before adopted by any military agencies

The 'commercial' market in the UK for anything that provides ballistic protection is tightly controlled - as it is for firearms.

If you had a legitimate need for ballistic protection you would

a. know that
b. have a legitimate source for it
c. not be stupid enough to buy something from ebay, the history (and possible damage to which) you have no idea about

Wind your neck in, quit griping, and quit supporting the leaches who are depriving front-line troops of protective equipment.

[mcantu]

true, i didnt take into account the way the UK views these items. in the US, the same venders that sell the ACH helmets to the govt make them available to the civilian market (maybe with different markings).

i'd wager however, that with the helmet taken by the MOD, since it apparently had no serial #, etc (according to a post on another board) that it will end up in a shelf in an evidence room and not on the head of a soldier...

[welshmann]

do want to lend my shovel mate???

since it apparently had no serial #, etc (according to a post on another board

[Royal]

i'd wager however, that with the helmet taken by the MOD, since it apparently had no serial #, etc (according to a post on another board) that it will end up in a shelf in an evidence room and not on the head of a soldier...

Which part of 'wind your neck in and quit griping' are you struggling with?

[Sabre]

He's got a point though.

There's no way that helmet, even with NSN in place, should go back into service. It's been unaccounted for and who knows whether it is serviceable.

Most of this kit that ends up on ebay went walkies from disposals. Used osprey covers are destroyed in theatre because it's not worth sending them back. So what if some lads sell them when back off tour? The brand new kit, like the osprey assault vests, are sold new probably because they're shyte and the lads don't use them. Again, they're destroyed in theatre...even new ones. The system just isn't set up to re-issue a lot of this stuff.

Either way, the issue isn't with people buying it, it's with those selling it.

[Royal]

If MoD Plod are going to the trouble of looking at this case, either the seller is in the doo doo, or there is a major problem with balistic protection going walkies.

There is a huge difference between a gash set of pouches/covers from a set of armour being sold and the actual protective bit. Apart from the issue of whether there is enough in theatre (there rarely is, despite what our glorious leader keeps telling everyone) there is also the issue of it getting into the wrong hands - whether that be 'ordinary decent' armed robbers or jihadi lunatics wanting to pull off Mumbai 2 (many of those involved in the recent copycat attacks in both Pakistan and Afghanistan have worn body armour).

Point about the doubtfull integrity taken on board - but that would not stop its use at a training establishment, providing that it was suitably marked.

[Sabre]

True, armour is a different matter. I would presume that the main reason to call round the buyers house is a) to keep the helmet off the streets and b) have evidence against the seller. I doubt the helmet would get back into circulation, nor does the MoD plod's comment of 'depriving the boys in theatre' really stand up. It just makes a good Daily Mail headline.

That said, hundreds of legally disposed of Mk6 helmets and old CBA sets are available from most dealers.

[oldsoak]

There is a major problem with protective gear going walkies. Not sure why - after all, its not like NVG's which argueably have a "fun" factor.
I recall seeing body armour complete , spankers, with unissued plates still in wrappers in the local army surplus store at the time we didnt have enough stuff to go around in Iraq. This was the then currect CBA - kevlar with chest and back plates. Now how did he get it ?
A lot of stuff was bought for the Balkans and "dissappeared" from the stores prior to Telic with the result that some chaps went without with disasterous consequences.

[aswaffield]

All army gear ends up in surplus shops as the army loads thousands of ton of equipment to boost the finances to in order to buy new kit , the ac900 is 15 years old and can be bought direct from the manufacture this was used for specials forces and ct roles , from my understanding these guys have adopted the mich helment for its replacement and the the ac900 is marketed as a brand new mk7 when in fact its 15 years old, nearly as old as the mk6 helmet , So its the goverment thats shafting the troops with old gear .

http://www.npaerospace.co.uk/htm/combat/combat.htm

[DeltaWhisky58]

An existing design can be adopted by the MoD and given a different designation - that doesn't mean that it's no good or anyone's being "shafted" as you put it. Your argument is confused and ill-informed at best and your post is confusing.

You've had your helmet confiscated by MoD-plod and you're pissed off about it, but otherwise your point is not clear.

[aswaffield]

well mate i totally agree with you about the adopting the design and the mk7 is a variant of the ac900 ((mk7 is tan )ac900 is black. The reason it was taken of me was its was sold a mk7/ac900 helmet and had alarm bells rings but if it would sold as just a ac900 then it would be ok as reeanactment groups have these , but its tryin to convince the guys its a ac900 which anoying as it was someone in stores confirmed it was a mk7 and hes prob only seen the mk7 for the first time this year and never seen or heard about an ac900 which has been out 15 years .

[DeltaWhisky58]

Aren't you missing the point - the AC900 is the Mk.7 is the AC900 so it doiesn't matter a fish's tit what you've got, or rather haven't got rofl

I guess you'll just have to play soldiers or pose in front of a mirror in a Mk.6 for the time being - goodness only knows why you want a Mk.7/AC900 helmet in the first place, buggered if I know :cantbeli:

[aswaffield]

I'm a collector of genuine sas gear !!!

[DeltaWhisky58]

:cantbeli: Bought on ebaY - it's hardly SAS gear then is it!

For crying out loud, you'll be telling me you know the colour of the boathouse next rofl

Suggest you post here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9) :|

[Consigliere]

A bit of trivial question, and I apologize for this, however I can't find the proper answer anywhere.

For a British S95 Desert DPM uniform, what is the proper undershirt? A "brown" cotton shirt such as is worn with a U.S. three colour desert camo uniform?

Or, a "desert sand" colour as is worn with Army ACU uniforms.

Thanks in advance for your help. Trivial, I know and a bit off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread for this.

C

[Bisley_Bob]

A bit of trivial question, and I apologize for this, however I can't find the proper answer anywhere.

For a British S95 Desert DPM uniform, what is the proper undershirt? A "brown" cotton shirt such as is worn with a U.S. three colour desert camo uniform?

Or, a "desert sand" colour as is worn with Army ACU uniforms.

Thanks in advance for your help. Trivial, I know and a bit off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread for this.

C


You probably wouldn't wear a t-shirt under the DPM shirt if you're somewhere hot.

[Royal]

I'm a collector of genuine sas gear !!!

Wind your neck in and confine your posts to the airsoft/reenactment section.

A dark brown T Shirt is issued, but most units wear whatever they like. Personally I used to wear the old light tan PX specials - lighter and more comfortable.

[welshmann]

I'm a collector of genuine sas gear !!!

Cool,i got a teeshirt i will sell you,bargain for 50 quid,pm me.(it belongs to a airline mind,but still has SAS on it)

[Red-Phos]

I'm a collector of genuine sas gear !!!
I have a dinner ops waistcoat,Pm me.

[Muddlers]

http://www.youtube.com/v/krZW6IvdKOc

Some footage of the new body armour and helmet.

[Bisley_Bob]

It's good to see we haven't got enough in theatre for everybody in that unit.

[CMNot]

That journo has a mighty impressive nose.

[Hauser]

Is this the assault osprey in this video? Seems to have a totally different fastening method to the ones shown earlier in the thread.

[baboon6]

Is this the assault osprey in this video? Seems to have a totally different fastening method to the ones shown earlier in the thread.

Looks like it to me.

[Hauser]

Looks like it to me.

So are the side panels shown below detachable, or have they been deleted altogether from the current version? I didn't see any of the guys in the video with these, with most people mounting a triple magazine pouch across the front
http://militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83494&d=1256160191

[Bisley_Bob]

From the bit after they prod the road it looks like the opening may have been shifted to where the front edge of the ammunition pouches on the guy above are rather than having it on the front, perhaps the cumber band is easily moved round the armour to allow this, the vid isn't exactly HD quality and not many images of the armour have been released.

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

the cummerbands been moved round the side to allow the mag panels on the front im liking it

[Graspol]

I'm a collector of genuine sas gear !!!


The SAS guard our barracks ( Mainwand Barracks at Walton-on-the-Naze).
I'll ask one of the duty guardsmen if they have any kit to trade.

[Hollos]

Is it me or does that PRR look slightly different the antenna looks like its grown a bit might be wrong though

[Bisley_Bob]

Is it me or does that PRR look slightly different the antenna looks like its grown a bit might be wrong though

You're right, that antenna is longer than standard.

[Catch22]

The PECOC helmet was displayed in Revision booth at Milipol in Paris - with all the side rails attachments and optional facemask/visor with some fragmentation protective capabilities. Its quite diffrent from AC 900, smaller - more along the lines of ACH. It wears quite nicely with the pads inside, although it could be more stable sideways.

[oldsoak]

Any piccies ? Reason why I ask is that AIUI, final definitive PECOC helmet may yet to be decided and several designs are being looked at. Which sort of confuses me because I thought the AC900/Mk 7 was the PECOC helmet or at least pretty damn close.

[Catch22]

Sorry I don't have one, we had someone else to shoot pics, so they would appear soon I guess. It wasn't AC 900 - of that im quite sure, I know the other one, and had both on my head.

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

Is it me or does that PRR look slightly different the antenna looks like its grown a bit might be wrong though

bigger anntennae its secure and also has a longer range if you look at the headset its like ipod earphones with noice cancelling ear defence built in

[Catch22]

Nacre or Sylynx?

[kalkun]

Nacre or Sylynx?

Racal Acoustics came out with it's own series, should be theirs?

[Hollos]

bigger anntennae its secure and also has a longer range if you look at the headset its like ipod earphones with noice cancelling ear defence built inThanks for the info no more putting in one small ear defender then, so it secure comms i guess its bowmanised now oh no :)

[baboon6]

Racal Acoustics came out with it's own series, should be theirs?

Selex ITE I believe. What confuses me though is that there doesn't appear to be a microphone anymore. Anybody know anything about this?

http://defensenews.com/blogs/dsei/2009/09/11/selex-debuts-low-profile-commoear-pro-headset-system/

http://www.selex-comms.co.uk/selex/pdf/ite.pdf

More on PRR enhancements:

http://www.selex-comms.co.uk/selex/pdf/BASILDON%20DATASHEETS/PRR%20Enhancements%20(may2008).pdf

[kalkun]

Selex ITE I believe. What confuses me though is that there doesn't appear to be a microphone anymore. Anybody know anything about this?

The mics use a form of bone conduction to relay the wearers voice into the attached radio without a boom mic.

Bone conduction is used in most of this type headsets.

[baboon6]

The mics use a form of bone conduction to relay the wearers voice into the attached radio without a boom mic.

Bone conduction is used in most of this type headsets.

Thanks.

Actually it appears that the new headset is in fact made by Racal, just found this article. My mistake.

http://www.soldiermod.com/volume-2-06/racal-acoustics.html

[Bisley_Bob]

Wow, those headsets look awesome, where's the catch?

[Tartan_ninja]

the catch is if you miss the fitting, your screwed....takes 6 weeks and is almost impossible to track the team down.....so no fancy set for me :(

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

if youre going to theatre youll get them or you wont be going on the ground its TFH policy the same as your osprey helmet and glasses.

[Tartan_ninja]

Someone wants to tell the unit i'm attached to..no bugger has them (as yet) and the job we are in, we would be on the ground.....Was meant to get fitted couple of month ago, was told i had excessive wax in my lug and got the form...went to the Doc, all fixed, and was due to get fitted at Chillwell, only to be told the were too many of us.....and the team doing the fitting were finished for the day!!!
As for the rest of the kit...no probs...
I'm on leave so i will try and get something fixedwhen i go back down South

Just my bloody luck..never knew it was policy, knew about the glasses and gloves, and the MK 7's

[Tartan_ninja]

Just quick question...does this new Osprey sit lower then the MK2 version.....it looks a bit lower... just wondered how that would affect wearing belt kit with it....???

[Catch22]

"This new" you mean Mk4? If so - it sits a bit higher up, and should be a bit better with belt order.

[Tartan_ninja]

By "New" i meant New to me..never used the Mk4 as yet..and wont get issued it until i arrive in theater (all training build up was done with older models..... and cheers for the info..was planning to use a light weight belt order...