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View Full Version : Swedish FMV procures the AMV from Patria



Henke556
06-25-2009, 01:12 PM
http://www.fmv.se/default.aspx?id=121

"The Finnish company Patria will deliver the Patria AMV (Armoured Modular Vehicle)to the Swedish Armed Forces. The order includes 113 vehicles and system equipment. The value of the order is approximately EUR 240 million and the vehicles will be delivered between 2011-2013."

A good choice, but not so good for SEP:-( There will probably be an additional order in the future for more vehicles.

kosse
06-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Great news. I didn't know Sweden was thinking about purchasing AMV! I sure hope there will be a counterpurchase in form of Strv122 if Swedes decide to give up part of their fleet.

According to Wikipedia 1301 AMVs have been ordered by different countries plus undisclosed numbers by UAE and Macedonia. I guess it's 1414 now.. Looking good for Patria even in the times of recession..

mack pl
06-25-2009, 01:27 PM
Poland will have around 830 in next few years...

Evolv5
06-25-2009, 01:57 PM
Sweet! What vehicle will these be replacing (if any)?

fingon
06-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Sweet! What vehicle will these be replacing (if any)?

The Swedes have XA-185's from SISU. I don't know if they are going to replace them though.

jontew
06-25-2009, 03:24 PM
Nice! But also sad for the SEP and especially all the people who probably will be losing their job now :/

domokun
06-25-2009, 03:48 PM
Nice! But also sad for the SEP and especially all the people who probably will be losing their job now :/

How many people will lose their jobs? Most of people involved in SEP at this point were design engineers.

Good for Patria. Reality is that when nordic military sales are considered Sweden exports more than it imports.

Another aspect in SEP project is that it was mostly designing yet another European wheeled APC/IFV. On European scale there is plenty of similar products coming from plenty of manufacturers.

Breerman
06-25-2009, 03:59 PM
Im sorry but I think this is a bad choice.

This administration have said they will buy more "off the shelf" military products from abroad. Not necessarily smart since a) our domestically developed products often are superior and carefully fitted to our needs b) unlike in other countries domestically developed products here often end up being of lower cost than its international competitors c) know-how, export, jobs, and taxes

Theres no urgent demand for new wheeled vehicles so I dont see why they want to hurry a decision now anyway. Just recently a joint-venture deal with Archer was made together with Norway. That ensures necessary quantity and saved costs for various shared resources. A similar deal could be reached with SEP in the next few years.

Last but not least, at least I would wait to finalize this until the potential Swiss Gripen decision. I'm sure such a deal would include counter-trade arrangements and then the Piranha would fit nicely into that. Now instead we might see the government procuring truck loads of Swiss watches and handing them out to retiring state employees.

Henke556
06-25-2009, 04:01 PM
The interesting thing now is gonna be the selection of the gun. I don't want to see a 12,7. I'd prefer something like the polish Rosomak, 30mm or maybe even 35/50mm like the 9035NL and DK. But I guess I'll have too look in the stars for that.

This is probably be the main vehicle in our light mechanized battalions. So it could be seen as a replacement mainly for the Pbv302.

jontew
06-25-2009, 04:14 PM
How many people will lose their jobs? Most of people involved in SEP at this point were design engineers.

Good for Patria. Reality is that when nordic military sales are considered Sweden exports more than it imports.

Another aspect in SEP project is that it was mostly designing yet another European wheeled APC/IFV. On European scale there is plenty of similar products coming from plenty of manufacturers.


I was actually thinking of the engineers, and the export thing is good for us so I really see no problems there, sorry.

domokun
06-25-2009, 04:15 PM
Im sorry but I think this is a bad choice.

This administration have said they will buy more "off the shelf" military products from abroad. Not necessarily smart since a) our domestically developed products often are superior and carefully fitted to our needs b) unlike in other countries domestically developed products here often end up having lower cost than its competitors d) know-how, export, jobs, and taxes


a) True to extent, but in products from other nordic countries probably fit quite well for Swedish needs.

b) Unit cost or program cost? Reality with current ever rising costs defense material and their development is that smaller countries cannot afford to develop everything by themselves and have to focus key areas they define by themselves.

Evolv5
06-25-2009, 04:16 PM
Maybe this is a bribe to get Finland to "hang up the phone first" aka, join NATO to Sweden can join as well.

(kidding)

Breerman
06-25-2009, 04:27 PM
Another aspect in SEP project is that it was mostly designing yet another European wheeled APC/IFV. On European scale there is plenty of similar products coming from plenty of manufacturers.
Other than arguments in my previous post,

SEP is of a new generation. Key improvement is total modularity. Including switching from wheels to tracks and vice versa. One vehicle can do 20 different tasks. All in all replacing multiple vehicles and systems with one.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/811/sepzdotjpg

Breerman
06-25-2009, 04:32 PM
b) Unit cost or program cost? Reality with current ever rising costs defense material and their development is that smaller countries cannot afford to develop everything by themselves and have to focus key areas they define by themselves.
All costs! There are exceptions (like RBS 23 BAMSE)

What you say is true to an extent and thats why I mentioned the Archer joint-venture.

Wojtop
06-25-2009, 04:32 PM
Im sorry but I think this is a bad choice.

This administration have said they will buy more "off the shelf" military products from abroad. Not necessarily smart since a) our domestically developed products often are superior and carefully fitted to our needs b) unlike in other countries domestically developed products here often end up being of lower cost than its international competitors c) know-how, export, jobs, and taxes


AFAIK armour of AMV is made in Sweden and I guess a lot of internal equipment will be Swedish as Patria is closely cooperating with Swedish partners like BAE systems. Also it's combat proven in Afghanistan. Not so much "off the shelf" not so much "abroad" and not so much "inferior" product as it may seem. Probably also a cheaper solution for taxpayers than developing a similar vehicle all but yourself. Hope it serves well to Swedish army.

kosse
06-25-2009, 04:34 PM
SEP is of a new generation. Key improvement is total modularity. Including switching from wheels to tracks and vice versa. One vehicle can do 20 different tasks. All in all replacing multiple vehicles and systems with one.


I.e jack of all trades, master of none? p-)

If SEP indeed was that awesome (with prospects of foreign sales) it would not have been killed just like that.

signatory
06-25-2009, 04:41 PM
Sounds good. Low-risk, meets the requirements, early deliveries, etc. And a Scania engine too...

How's work going on a NEMO/AMOS version?

Breerman
06-25-2009, 04:55 PM
AFAIK armour of AMV is made in Sweden and I guess a lot of internal equipment will be Swedish as Patria is closely cooperating with Swedish partners like BAE systems. Also it's combat proven in Afghanistan. Not so much "off the shelf" not so much "abroad" and not so much "inferior" product as it may seem. Probably also a cheaper solution for taxpayers than developing a similar vehicle all but yourself. Hope it serves well to Swedish army.
I never used the word "inferior" and off the shelf just means existing product.

I have nothing against AMV per say but I think we could get the next generation for a similar cost and with the perks I mentioned. If the development cost were like those for military products in USA, Germany, Japan I would never support it.


I.e jack of all trades, master of none? p-)
What would that be?


If SEP indeed was that awesome (with prospects of foreign sales) it would not have been killed just like that.
Its new politics thats sweeping over all projects. The reasoning is smaller defence > smaller orders > cheaper to buy already existing products from abroad.

Signatory has a valid argument about lower risk. But I would plan for a future big procurement to replace everything from BV's, PBV302, SISU etc. and have SEP as the main candidate.

andreen
06-25-2009, 07:23 PM
The interesting thing now is gonna be the selection of the gun. I don't want to see a 12,7. I'd prefer something like the polish Rosomak, 30mm or maybe even 35/50mm like the 9035NL and DK. But I guess I'll have too look in the stars for that.

This is probably be the main vehicle in our light mechanized battalions. So it could be seen as a replacement mainly for the Pbv302.

They are going to be fitted with PROTECTOR M151 Remote Weapon Stations and M2 .50 cal heavy machine guns. We bought PROTECTOR as a counterpurchase when Norway bought Archer.

andreen
06-25-2009, 07:42 PM
BAE Hägglund will manage, Sweden is planing to buy ATV's (armored tracked vehicles) in the near future. For SEP the race maybe lost but not for Hägglund, I have heard the wind talk about a REMO for the Norwedian cv9030 to cv9035 mkIII level. A need for a REMO for the Swedish cv9040 to the same technical level lies not that far away in time. And if Hägglund can create a nice way to make old cv9040 chassin in to a nice base APC and different support vehicles (repair/hawser/ambulance/mm) for the ATV-purchase then they'll have plenty of occupation in front of them.

andreen
06-26-2009, 04:26 AM
They are going to be fitted with PROTECTOR M151 Remote Weapon Stations and M2 .50 cal heavy machine guns. We bought PROTECTOR as a counterpurchase when Norway bought Archer.

http://www.fmv.se/ImageVault/Images/id_946/conversionFormat_4/scope_4/webSafe_1/ImageVaultHandler.aspx

http://www.fmv.se/ImageVault/Images/id_947/conversionFormat_4/scope_4/webSafe_1/ImageVaultHandler.aspx

Henke556
06-26-2009, 10:58 AM
The REMO for Strf9040 and Strv122 is canceled. So no major updates in the foreseeable future..

And that we bought the protector from norway is no guarantee that they will end up on the AMV's. We'll use them on RG32, Patgb203 and Archers as the plan are now.

Jonsson8
06-27-2009, 04:27 PM
AFAIK armour of AMV is made in Sweden and I guess a lot of internal equipment will be Swedish as Patria is closely cooperating with Swedish partners like BAE systems. Also it's combat proven in Afghanistan. Not so much "off the shelf" not so much "abroad" and not so much "inferior" product as it may seem. Probably also a cheaper solution for taxpayers than developing a similar vehicle all but yourself. Hope it serves well to Swedish army.

The bad thing for the tax payers is however that around 1.6 billion SEK (about 205 million US dollars or 145 million euro) have already been spent by the Swedish state (i.e. the tax payers) and by BAE Hägglunds for developing the SEP, so that's quite a waste of money for nothing if the project is cancelled.

signatory
06-27-2009, 05:25 PM
The bad thing for the tax payers is however that around 1.6 billion SEK (about 205 million US dollars or 145 million euro) have already been spent by the Swedish state (i.e. the tax payers) and by BAE Hägglunds for developing the SEP, so that's quite a waste of money for nothing if the project is cancelled.

Feh. It's not as bad as the political populists and protectionists might make it out to be. First the tax payers has spent 1 Bn of those 1,6 Bn the SEP project has cost and I suppose close to half that has come back in taxes and VAT so the net loss would be in the order of 0,5bn or a bit more. Split that on the many years it has been running... coffee money compared to other state expenses and at least it got spent on advanced R&D in Sweden rather than something totally useless like pretty much everything else our tax money is wasted on.

With studies there's always a risk money will be lost... it has happend to several projects over the years and sure SEP might have been better for several reasons but the new low vehicle numbers is too small to really make me care that much... the most sad part is perhaps that despite being awarded 1 Bn in development aid they still couldn't offer a cheaper solution.

Better luck with the tracked.

PEMM
06-27-2009, 06:16 PM
I hope there would be more joint development like there was with AMOS...

Sniffit
06-27-2009, 09:41 PM
Good news for a change, the XA-185's and XA-203s badly need replacing, I just hope that they don't cheap out and actually get a decent weapon system this time around.

Stormaren
06-27-2009, 10:39 PM
They are going to be fitted with PROTECTOR M151 Remote Weapon Stations and M2 .50 cal heavy machine guns. We bought PROTECTOR as a counterpurchase when Norway bought Archer.

Did we buy Archer? When? Source? Sauce?

Leaper
06-27-2009, 10:52 PM
The REMO for Strf9040 and Strv122 is canceled. So no major updates in the foreseeable future..

And that we bought the protector from norway is no guarantee that they will end up on the AMV's. We'll use them on RG32, Patgb203 and Archers as the plan are now.


You can add CB90 and BV309 to that list

Anomander
06-28-2009, 03:36 PM
AFAIK armour of AMV is made in Sweden and I guess a lot of internal equipment will be Swedish as Patria is closely cooperating with Swedish partners like BAE systems. Also it's combat proven in Afghanistan. Not so much "off the shelf" not so much "abroad" and not so much "inferior" product as it may seem. Probably also a cheaper solution for taxpayers than developing a similar vehicle all but yourself. Hope it serves well to Swedish army.

Yes, the engine is also swedish. Basically the swedes are buying a swedish vehicle from Finland p-)

PEMM
06-28-2009, 04:54 PM
Yes, the engine is also swedish. Basically the swedes are buying a swedish vehicle from Finland p-)

Thats quite annoying from you to say. Maybe in your opinion Proto Sisu was british, since it had engine by Leyland...

PS: Is Volvo german? I drive one that has engine by Wolksvagen. :D

andreen
06-28-2009, 07:15 PM
Did we buy Archer? When? Source? Sauce?


Sweden and Norway sign cooperative agreement for the development of the Archer artillery system

Shortly before Christmas, it became clear that Sweden and Norway make a common order of it in Sweden developed Archer artillery system.
http://www.fmv.se/upload/5632/artillerisystemdotjpg
When Håkan Espmark from FMV and Asle Kjelsberg from FLO signed the agreement it was the first step in an intensified cooperation between Sweden and Norway in areas such as artillery. The time being it is a question of two contracts: an agreement on joint development of the Archer artillery system and an agreement to procure the Norwegian remote-controlled sensor and weapon platform Protector.

The development of Archer will be ongoing until 2010 and the first serial delivery is planned for the autumn of 2011.

Several agreements are in the pipeline: one on the procurement and one on the maintenance of Archer, one in the field of artillery ammunition, and one regarding a joint control and management system for indirect fire.

“This is the beginning of the fulfilment of the MoU that was signed by the countries in May 2007,” says Håkan Espmark, head of Land Procurement at FMV.
“I am looking forward to intensive and fruitful cooperation within these two cooperative agreements and those that will come in 2009,” says Asle Kjelsberg, head of FLO Investment.

Development work is now proceeding until 2010. FMV and FLO will begin negotiations with the Supplier BAE Systems Bofors on the assignment to complete the development and delivery of the series of Archer artillery systems.

FMV started technology studies in the mid-1990s in order to find a replacement for Haubits 77B. Several foreign systems were tested in parallel, all of which were dropped on the basis of high costs or because they did not meet requirements. The system has been rigorously tested with the help of two demonstrators.

The Archer system is built from recycling of parts of the classic Haubits model 77B and Volvo’s waist-controlled dumper A 30D. This makes the project cost-efficient. Modification for splinter and mine protection have created a safe work environment for the three to four soldiers who do not have to leave the cabin when getting ready to fire from a transport position within 30 seconds.

The Norwegian sensor and weapon platform Protector gives the operator the possibility to tend to the close-range protection of the unit. There are also sensors and other equipment for reconnaissance, observation and homing. The sensor and weapon platform Protector, apart from Archer, will also be used on other vehicle platforms in the Swedish and Norwegian defence forces that need their own protection.
Source FMV 2009-01-07 17:04

IMTT
06-28-2009, 07:22 PM
Relative to the current spending commitments for defense it is interesting that these two nations would seek the purchase of such items.

Stormaren
06-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Nice, would love to see more cooperation between Norwegian Kongsberg, Finnish Patria and Swedish BAE.

Anomander
06-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Thats quite annoying from you to say. Maybe in your opinion Proto Sisu was british, since it had engine by Leyland...

PS: Is Volvo german? I drive one that has engine by Wolksvagen. :D

Joking ;) Just trying to say that the parts in these complex machines nowadays comes from all over the world.

domokun
07-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Seems like some politicians are against vehicle deal.

jontew
07-03-2009, 12:39 PM
As of this moment the deal is on hold since Hägglunds filed complaints against FMV..

http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/nyheter/artikel_3159199.svd (Only in swedish)

Photographic
07-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Anyone cares to explain why Sweden insists on domestic developement, and then picks a Finnish product? I'm absolutely convinced SEP is the better vehicle and overall choice for Sweden here.

If we are to believe Hägglunds some serious errors were made in the procurement, apparently 1,7 billions were to be refunded as part of a "royalty clause." According to Hägglunds not making the offer more expensive than Patrias, they also claim changes were made to the basics of the contract along the way.

signatory
07-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Anyone cares to explain why Sweden insists on domestic developement, and then picks a Finnish product? I'm absolutely convinced SEP is the better vehicle and overall choice for Sweden here.

If we are to believe Hägglunds some serious errors were made in the procurement, apparently 1,7 billions were to be refunded as part of a "royalty clause." According to Hägglunds not making the offer more expensive than Patrias, they also claim changes were made to the basics of the contract along the way.

Yeah that's their side of the story.. we'll see what happens but the bottom line is that FMV got a assignment from the gov to conduct a international tender. So why AMV then? BAE lists alot of good points and SEP might be the better long term product for Sweden but it doesn't automatically make it the right product for the right price the way FMV had to make their decision.

I am sure Patria can list a lot of good points as well, they gave a lower price and has offered offsets and a proven product in series production (that will be modified to some extent). The royalties from SEP might still not have been enough to make it cheaper when considering Patrias offsets and support (afaik the value is not public yet).

SEP was funded by the former government and they still support SEP no matter what. For job reasons, because the union supports their party, and because their party rule politics where BAE has its factory. If it also happened to become a good product then that would only be a bonus.

The current gov decided to look for alternatives because their position is competition before protectionism and have absolutely nothing to gain from being nice to BAE. They don't need to follow the FMV recommendations of course and there might be something the gov value differently than FMV once they get the papers.

Personally I'd like a SEP order but can accept AMV np and consider the spent R&D money to be peanuts.. heck, it costs more just to provide extra police security during 6 months of EU presidency... :roll:

signatory
10-29-2009, 11:15 AM
...............and it's **** up for that first attempt.

Victory for BAE in the court.

google-translate


Swedish government's procurement of armored all-terrain vehicles must be repeated.

Defense Materiel Administration broke namely the Public Procurement Act (LOU) when it gave the order worth over 2.4 billion kronor to Finnish Patria.

It says the County Administrative Court in Stockholm in a verdict.
Thus giving the court BAE Systems Hägglunds in Örnsköldsvik right. The company, which was a competitor of one billion order, have appealed against FMV's decision.

County Administrative Court wrote in its press release that Hägglunds has, or could suffer harm that FMV does not fully complied with the law.
The court, whose decision can be appealed to the appeal, found that the FMV of the big contract out correctly, but that certain parts of the course of the contract is contrary to law. These topics are the FMV

* 'Have used an unreasonably short bidding time "
* "Has made an unlawful material change in the specification"
* "Have some points designed an unclear specifications"
* "Has left unclear information to bidders'

Because of this, the FMV's contract came to be against LOU's principles of transparency and equal treatment, states the county administrative court. FMV's information director Kurt Smith wants to wait to say whether the authority intends to appeal the county's decision.

"We have just received appeal and of course we are fundamentally committed to our contracts are fair. So we should analyze the appeal very carefully and then decide whether we move forward, "he says.



http://www2.unt.se/avd/1,1826,MC=16-AV_ID=975554,00.html?

Breerman
11-01-2009, 01:50 AM
Good news. Fingers crossed.

freethinker
11-01-2009, 10:17 AM
If we are not buying domestic im glad we are buying from our neighbours.

signatory
08-13-2010, 09:20 AM
Patria has just won the re-tender.




13 aug, 2010 14:04 CET

Patria, AMV 8X8, AWV 2014
Patria vinner FMV’s pansarfordonsupphandling AWV2014

​Idag meddelade Försvarets Materielverk (FMV) att den upphandling av 113 pansarfordon man har genomfört för det svenska försvarets räkning, har vunnits av Patria. Ordern innehåller även en option for ytterligare 113 fordon . Affären är värd cirka 2,5 miljarder SEK.

http://www.cisionwire.se/patria/patria-vinner-fmv-s-pansarfordonsupphandling-awv201430503

http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/pressroom/forsvarets_materielverk__fmv/pressrelease/view/nya-hjulgaaende-stridsfordon-till-foersvaret-451893

Swedish companies involved in the production is armor from SSAB, engines from Scania, and stuff from SAAB, Åkers Krutbruk and others.

Leaper
08-13-2010, 09:29 AM
Good news!

jokuvaan
08-13-2010, 09:51 AM
Any idea of weapon types being installed?

Leaper
08-13-2010, 09:54 AM
probably a HMG or GMG

Breerman
08-13-2010, 10:50 AM
Based on previous information surrounding the deal it's a complete disgrace.

pocoloco
08-13-2010, 10:54 AM
Don't be too hard on yourself Breerman. It's not the end of the world.

Leaper
08-13-2010, 10:56 AM
Based on previous information surrounding the deal it's a complete disgrace.

What do you mean?

pocoloco
08-13-2010, 10:58 AM
What do you mean?

I guess he is just upset because of the fact that Patria is Finnish.

Leaper
08-13-2010, 10:59 AM
Who cares?! It's Nordic!!!!!!!!!!!

Nordic STRONG!!!111

Slenke
08-13-2010, 11:07 AM
probably a HMG or GMG
No protector?

Breerman
08-13-2010, 11:08 AM
What do you mean?
Read this thread from the start and then this:

http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/stora-brister-i-fmvs-upphandling_3211713.svd

It was basically a show competition. This government made the decision to buy more off the shelf products and that's what has happened.

The decision is also greater than this procurement alone. It practically kills any chances for export orders. BAE has been very clear on what will happen with Hägglunds.

http://svt.se/2.55868/1.1618055/bae-chefen_hotar_stoppa_investeringar

And that was after this.

http://allehanda.se/start/ornskoldsvik/1.1166061-bae-halverat-pa-tre-ar

Another aspect is of course when the first soldiers dead in an IED blast goes home in coffins and the government did not choose the vehicle with superior mine protection.

Leaper
08-13-2010, 11:08 AM
Protector? Enlighten me

Leaper
08-13-2010, 11:11 AM
Read this thread from the start and then this:

http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/stora-brister-i-fmvs-upphandling_3211713.svd

It was basically a show competition. This government made the decision to buy more off the shelf products and that's what has happened.

The decision is also greater than this procurement alone. It practically kills any chances for export orders. BAE has been very clear on what will happen with Hägglunds.

http://svt.se/2.55868/1.1618055/bae-chefen_hotar_stoppa_investeringar

And that was after this.

http://allehanda.se/start/ornskoldsvik/1.1166061-bae-halverat-pa-tre-ar

Another aspect is of course when the first soldiers dead in an IED blast goes home in coffins and the government did not choose the vehicle with superior mine protection.


I get your point. I just want the vehicle with the best protection. Money shouldnt be a problem

Slenke
08-13-2010, 12:32 PM
Protector? Enlighten me
The Norwegian remote weapon station that would also be fitted to the Archer.

Leaper
08-13-2010, 12:37 PM
We have our own I think. I saw it on the CB90

Jippo
08-13-2010, 02:35 PM
Finnish AMV's have protectors.

The Dane
08-13-2010, 02:44 PM
Piranha V is a way better vehicle IMO.. and Lemur IS a better RWS compared to protector. But both are also more expensive..

I hope the Swedish choise will serve them well.

mrxyz
08-13-2010, 04:48 PM
Based on previous information surrounding the deal it's a complete disgrace.
Yep, a complete disgrace.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details as some time has passed since I was involved with Hägglunds and their engineers, but something like this happened: FMV itself was directing the SEP program from the beginning, with regards to requirements and development direction. Then, FMV suddenly decided that some requirements, which were implemented by Hägglunds directly because of FMV's involvement, were not necessary anymore. Requirements which the SEP program now fulfilled but not the Patria vehicle. This put SEP at a serious disadvantage under the new requirements. Suddenly the features that Hägglunds had implemented (under direction of FMV!) were not wanted anymore, but still added to the price of the vehicle. It's really quite dishonest by FMV, and Hägglunds engineers rightly feel cheated for having put all that work to live up to the initial requirements, and then having FMV dump them for another vehicle that didn't.

Henke556
08-13-2010, 05:29 PM
We have our own I think. I saw it on the CB90

Sweden have/will buy 140 Protectors from Kongsberg to be used on our RG32 Galten. They bought the Archer from us, so we buy the Protector from them.. The Lemur is a no go in the Swedish armed forces. The Lemur was tested on the CB 90, and that is probably what you saw. But the modification on the CB90 fleet has been halted, and if they will be modified, it will be with the protector.

andreen
08-13-2010, 05:33 PM
Read this thread from the start and then this:

http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/stora-brister-i-fmvs-upphandling_3211713.svd

It was basically a show competition. This government made the decision to buy more off the shelf products and that's what has happened.

The decision is also greater than this procurement alone. It practically kills any chances for export orders. BAE has been very clear on what will happen with Hägglunds.

http://svt.se/2.55868/1.1618055/bae-chefen_hotar_stoppa_investeringar

And that was after this.

http://allehanda.se/start/ornskoldsvik/1.1166061-bae-halverat-pa-tre-ar

Another aspect is of course when the first soldiers dead in an IED blast goes home in coffins and the government did not choose the vehicle with superior mine protection.

BAE Hagglunds received X number of billion in development aid for SEP, and they still did not manage to build a vehicle that the market wants. It's not only Sweden that have rejected the vehicle .... UK did same thing. Stick to what you are good at, BAE Hagglunds make wonderful IFV and ATVs that are tracked.

andreen
08-13-2010, 05:41 PM
Sweden have/will buy 140 Protectors from Kongsberg to be used on our RG32 Galten. They bought the Archer from us, so we buy the Protector from them.. The Lemur is a no go in the Swedish armed forces. The Lemur was tested on the CB 90, and that is probably what you saw. But the modification on the CB90 fleet has been halted, and if they will be modified, it will be with the protector.

The Protectors are going on the RG32, the AWV2014, the Archer, a small number of REMO 203:s and the last order of Bv309:s.

Sorce: Insats & Försvar

Leaper
08-13-2010, 06:11 PM
Sweden have/will buy 140 Protectors from Kongsberg to be used on our RG32 Galten. They bought the Archer from us, so we buy the Protector from them.. The Lemur is a no go in the Swedish armed forces. The Lemur was tested on the CB 90, and that is probably what you saw. But the modification on the CB90 fleet has been halted, and if they will be modified, it will be with the protector.

Yea that was prob it. Thanks!

They didnt buy the Stridsbåt 2010 either, we got two boats but they serve as command boats now :( They were supposed to fit an entire platoon

Kippari
08-14-2010, 03:52 AM
Well, it's a good vehicle, ask the Poles. It has sufficient IED protection and besides, if a number of 155/152mm shells are going to explode under your vehicle, it's going to jump some distance into the air, no matter how well you're protected.:)

Breerman
08-14-2010, 04:46 AM
BAE Hagglunds received X number of billion in development aid for SEP, and they still did not manage to build a vehicle that the market wants. It's not only Sweden that have rejected the vehicle .... UK did same thing. Stick to what you are good at, BAE Hagglunds make wonderful IFV and ATVs that are tracked.
Not at all. How many Gripens do you think would have been exported if it had not been supported by the government here by being the virgin/reference customer as well as political support? Investing money and not ordering is even worse in the eyes of potential foreign customers.

If this government had given SEP the same support as previous one gave CV90 it would most likely secure some export orders. Might even have won that huge British tender. The government has been very frank about their intentions about cutting down on domestic projects, among other things saying the profits end up with the foreign owners anyway. Yes, it would be better to have domestic owners but that argument doesn't hold water regardless.

In an overall perspective SEP is a better choice both from a financial perspective as well from a technological (completely different generations). But I either way reject the notion that we should go with the lowest bidder. Now our beloved government has ordered an APC that got graded with a 4 in mine protection compared to a 9 for SEP. The potential consequences are obvious.

Henke556
08-14-2010, 12:00 PM
^ Well according to Patria the mine resistence have been improved on the AMV's offered to Sweden since last years trials. I guess your figures is from the trial last year. But I don't know how good the mine resistance is compared to the Alligator. A 9 is quite hard to beat!

Jµµso
08-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Polish have probably shared lot of information how AMV works in field.

signatory
08-23-2010, 10:40 AM
Swiss company Mowag has filed a complaint... the court will look into this probably today and see if there's any reason to disqualify the tender.

BAE Hägglunds Alligator wasnt really evaluated because they missed on requirements and they have chosen not to appeal this time.

At the end the battle had been between Mowag and Patria.

http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/nyheter/fmv-be****-overklagas-men-inte-av-hagglunds_5175419.svd

signatory
08-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Frozen.

The court wants Mowag to discuss with FMV and then after som weeks they will issue a final decision.

zzzz.


http://svt.se/2.22620/1.2114666/fmv-upphandling_stoppas_efter_overklagan&from=rss?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Svtse-Inrikesnyheter+%28svt.se+-+Inrikesnyheter%29

jokuvaan
09-02-2010, 03:23 PM
If you want to know more about AMV, read from page 8. onwards: http://patria.smartpage.fi/focus/en110/pdf/PatriaFocus_110_EN.pdf Kari Neulaniemi, head of the AMV’s field testing takes you for a drive.

Jµµso
09-04-2010, 09:59 AM
Alligator is not officially cancelled? http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/bilar/article2466256.ece

S@ncho
10-16-2012, 10:08 AM
Maybe not the right thread, but I guess the Swedish members might have some infos about this:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/121016/rra8un7e.jpg

I googled this picture of the Patria AMV and although the name said rosomak-120mm, the turret is obviously the turret of the CV90120 light tank. Can anybody say if the picture is real and if such a version is on offer by Patria, or was it tested during trials? Couldn't find anything on their website about a tank destroyer and the the Rosomak uses a different turret/gun combo.

Sniffit
10-16-2012, 10:47 AM
Maybe not the right threat, but I guess the Swedish members might have some infos about this:

I googled this picture of the Patria AMV and although the name said rosomak-120mm, the turret is obviously the turret of the VC90120 light tank. Can anybody say if the picture is real and if such a version is on offer by Patria, or was it tested during trials? Couldn't find anything on their website about a tank destroyer and the the Rosomak uses a different turret/gun combo.

I havn't heard anything about this not as a possible procurement or a demo. That combined with the faulty capitation as a rosomak and the rough edges around the barrel/turret suggest that this is a fantasy creation by someone with little common sense and poor photoshop skills.

S@ncho
10-16-2012, 11:21 AM
I havn't heard anything about this not as a possible procurement or a demo. That combined with the faulty capitation as a rosomak and the rough edges around the barrel/turret suggest that this is a fantasy creation by someone with little common sense and poor photoshop skills.

Hi Sniffit, that was my first intention too, but because I couldn't find any other info about such a version. However, the CV90 and the AMV share several turrets, would this be possible too? Also Poland used the CV90120 in trials too, before they opted for an own development, could it be that they this AMV version was offered by Patria for trials too, before they developed the other Rosomak 120 varient?

Sniffit
10-16-2012, 11:46 AM
Hi Sniffit, that was my first intention too, but because I couldn't find any other info about such a version. However, the CV90 and the AMV share several turrets, would this be possible too? Also Poland used the CV90120 in trials too, before they opted for an own development, could it be that they this AMV version was offered by Patria for trials too, before they developed the other Rosomak 120 varient?

Yes they share several turrets, and theoretically I guess that you could mount the CV90120 turret with little effort. However I can't even find a hint of it and have never heard of it, not even as a techdemonstrator or even a mock up, nothing is impossible and I can't be 100% certain that this vehicle never existed however I do doubt it.