No Brie for Me

[hist2004]

No Brie for Me

By: Bill O'Reilly
Thursday, Jul 01, 2004

Enough with France. That country is not a friend to the USA, or to peace-seeking Iraqis and Afghans. French President Chirac continues to block efforts by the USA and Britain to bring stability to former dictatorships and make it more difficult for homicidal terrorists to operate. Take a look at Chirac's recent resume:
Last week, he blocked a newly created NATO strike force from going to Afghanistan to provide extra security for elections. Chirac said: "(the strike force) should not be used for troop shortages on routine operations."
Chirac continues to insist that any NATO training of Iraqi forces be done outside that country. Of course that would create a logistical nightmare not to mention enormous extra cost.
In Istanbul last week, Chirac again refused to consider Turkey as an allied partner. You may remember in February, 2003, France vetoed any NATO defense of Turkey in case it was attacked by Saddam.
According to the London Times, and not denied by Ambassador Richard Holbrooke on my television program, France lied to Colin Powell in the run-up to the Iraq war. Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin apparently told Powell that France would support military action against a defiant Saddam, and then reneged at the last minute. Many analysts believe that action gave Saddam hope that war would not come, and led to his disastrous decision to continue violating UN weapons inspection procedures.
Instead of attending the funeral of Ronald Reagan as Tony Blair and others did, Chirac passed on the event even though he was in Georgia 24 hours before the commemoration in Washington, just an hour plane ride away.
Even if one opposes the war in Iraq, a humane, clear thinking person would have to want peace and freedom in that country. But time and time again, Jacques Chirac has made it more difficult for that to happen.
Of course, he is doing it to spite President Bush. But he's also doing it because his approval rating in France now stands at 35%, according to a recent poll. Chirac apparently believes he can rebuild his support at home by being anti-American.

The consequence of that strategy is that American lives are being lost and things are made easier for the terror killers. Iraq and Afghanistan will never be free of totalitarianism unless there is security in those countries. But Jacques doesn't care about that. Jacques cares only about Jacques and I've had enough.

So no more brie for me. No more Evian, Air France, Provence and no more escargot, which I don't like anyway. As a free American, I am using my economic choice to send the French government a message. I am boycotting French goods and services and hope you will do the same. As they say in Brooklyn, which is not similar to Paris, Chirac is a bum.

The big dog and pony D-Day show last month in Normandy was a cynical exercise. Bush and Chirac despise each other and Jacques' hope that W loses in November is driving his agenda. Meantime, innocent civilians get their heads chopped off by terrorists and Jacques can't help out. As his role model Marie Antoinette once said: "Let them eat cake."

There is a slight chance that the oil-for-food scandal will expose France as being a corrupt enabler of Saddam. Remember, the bank where all the bribe money was stashed is in Paris, and some FOJ's (friends of Jacques) made millions dealing with Saddam and his sons. I have little confidence the United Nations will get to the bottom of this but I am praying for a miracle. In the meantime, I have another Brooklynism for the despicable Jacques Chirac: You know what you can do with your Eiffel Tower, pal.

Regards,
Hist2004

[ShotOver]

haha, i always did like Bill, his show on Fox news is pretty good.

[WolverineBlue]

Other than Germany (to a certain extent) and Belgium, are there any other countries that consider France to be a friend?

[Freibier]

I like the french and this article is utter BS.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I have high hopes for the investigation into the oil-for-food scandal at the UN. I wonder if a certain Frenchman's name will appear on any lists?

[Black Dots]

I think it’s kind of annoying how people will complain that the French aren’t sending troops then say, well we didn’t need them anyway because the French are cowards/weak/incompetent, etc.

They only thing I can’t stand more than constant French-bashing is the fact that it makes the US sound like a scorned lover with a bad case of sour grapes. Honestly, who cares? If the French don’t want NATO forces in Afghanistan, but other NATO countries feel that it’s necessary, then the French troops will sit at home while other nations send troops, and that’s that.

[Kriz]

OH no the nation bashing scene all over again :roll:
Wow a president of a nation is a retard, lets boycot everything from that nation !!!

Hallelujah! :bash:

[usa320]

I think talks of boycotts and the like are a bit extreme.

But France is without a doubt becomming a serious roadblock to progress in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Anzac]

Well, apart from great brittain that is kind of splitt on the issue, i think all of europe is kind of on suspisious of usa at the moment. All the patriotism and the tendensy to solve everything with violance, to treat everyone who dont agree with them like an enemy. kind of brings back memories to us europeans..

[Jehuty]

I guess it means extra-brie for me.

[b.scheller]

I don't think that France itself is not a friend to the United States, its more or less that fascist; Chirac.

[usa320]

All the patriotism and the tendensy to solve everything with violance

:fork:

OH PLEASE... Some jackasses killed 3000 innocent civilians in a brutal attack on our country- what the hell did you expect us to do? Drink wine and munch on cheese and talk about it?

The only way to fix terrorism is to kill em, thats it. Violence is the only way. You cannot negotiate with these people. They are willing to kill themselves to kill you, you cant deal with people like that.

Theres an old saying i think something along the lines of "War isnt the worst thing. The worst thing is having nothing that you are willing to fight for".

[He219]

I guess it means extra-brie for me.
rofl

[SwissGrenadier]

I don't think that France itself is not a friend to the United States, its more or less that fascist; Chirac.

well said! chirac and his UMP party are a bunch of wankers however not every frenchman is an anti american gaullist asshole

ps i like brie p-)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Whil I am pretty rightwing (at least in terms of foreign policy), I still think O'really is a tabloidish condecending idiot. Btw, he is a centrist not a Conservative on most issues. He is a SOCIAL Conservative though (a trait I dislike for small governemt has no business telling you whats 'good' behavior and whats naughty)

[UkrainianAmerican]

I don't think that France itself is not a friend to the United States, its more or less that fascist; Chirac.

well said! chirac and his UMP party are a bunch of wankers however not every frenchman is an anti american gaullist asshole

ps i like brie p-)
Yes, btw when I was in France in 2001, everyone was very nice to us even though it was clear that we were Americans.

[Roger Rabbit]

I think talks of boycotts and the like are a bit extreme.

But France is without a doubt becomming a serious roadblock to progress in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

France or parts of the French government?

[gilgoul]

Dear You,

I was born and raised in France, as stated before, and even if I made the choice of leaving this country, in big part for the same reasons a lot of people are turning a dirty eye on France today, I consider this kind of generalisation despicable, and calls to boycott at the same level than the worst sorry asses that are signing petitions instead of trying to have opinions.
I understand your anger at Jacques Chirac, I share it, This man has been a disgrace since he entered politics (I don`t know his history before), he always used of the most cynical and populists means to reach his objectives.
True, his personal involvement in cases of coruption have been often rum ored, unfortunately never put on trial.
True, his policy towards the USA and coalition have been of systematic obstruction.
True, the man has more than "suspect" relation with Irak, and with Syria.
And has been a hero of arab nationalism till he blew it with the Hijab law.
But this doesn`t grant anyone to use a Nation as a scapegoat for it`s own failure and difficulties. By doing this you get closer to the way your own ennemies react when they blame systematicaly the "sionist entity, the jewish loby and the USA" for all of their shortcomings and all of their failure.
The Nato Nations don`t need france to send troops in afghanistan, Turkey, that hasn`t been solicited too much could, despite the end of the cease fire with the PKK, easily send a few hundred of it`s excellent infantry soldiers.
And by the way, are you going to change french policy by stoping to buy Brie?
I doubt it, you might only hurt it`s producers.

[WolverineBlue]

Let's just set this straight: in this thread, when one says "France," he means the government, not the people. Same for the US and any other country.

It's just annoying to see Chirac put down every initiative the US and other allies pose for attacking the most serious threat to our way of life. I know that electoral politics play a crucial role (especially right now in the US), but we have got to get on the same team.

Chirac's vision of a unified Europe dominated by France is basically in tatters now, and so he wants to "get even" by standing against the US. The US has more influence with the new members of NATO and the EU than France does, and that just pisses Chirac off.

[Uncle Chô]

No Brie for Me

So no more brie for me. No more Evian, Air France, Provence and no more escargot, which I don't like anyway. As a free American, I am using my economic choice to send the French government a message. I am boycotting French goods and services and hope you will do the same.
:cantbeli:

Did this gentleman ever heard of globalization? I hope his friends and relatives are not working for a French company like 400 000 US citizens do...

[duck]

Bill O'Reilly is a closet escargot lover. :D And I bet he and Rush get through a dozen frogs legs when they're at their favorite bistro in D.C. ;)

[hist2004]

1. Aisne-Marne, France
2. Brittany, France
3. Epinal, France
4. Lorraine, France
5. Meuse-Argonne, France
6. Normandy, France
7. Oise-Aisne, France
8. Rhone, France
9. Somme, France
10. St. Mihiel, France
11. Suresnes, France

Go to these cemeteries in France-either in person or a virtual tour through the Web-and then talk to me
about the unjust treatment of France in this article. American blood for France’s liberation.

Regards,
Hist2004

[AROUETLJ]

He's just stupid. Denying himself the beauty of Provence. And that was a good point someone made earlier. Let's say US companies decide to boycott Airbus. Where do you think Airbus gets its steel from? Oh and haven't Air France merged with KLM? Is he boycotting The Netherlands too?

[AROUETLJ]

Don't be dumb Hist2004. Do you think "American blood was shed just for France"? What was the US supposed to do? Let Hitler run Europe? What would the US have done then? Hitler wasn't particularly fond of the US, and some of his best buddies were the Japanese, just then attacking Pearl Harbour and American possessions in the Pacific. When the US liberated Europe it was fighting for itself too.

[chauncy republicans]

All the patriotism and the tendensy to solve everything with violance

:fork:

OH PLEASE... Some jackasses killed 3000 innocent civilians in a brutal attack on our country- what the hell did you expect us to do? Drink wine and munch on cheese and talk about it?

The only way to fix terrorism is to kill em, thats it. Violence is the only way. You cannot negotiate with these people. They are willing to kill themselves to kill you, you cant deal with people like that.
:cantbeli:

[Jehuty]

1. Aisne-Marne, France
2. Brittany, France
3. Epinal, France
4. Lorraine, France
5. Meuse-Argonne, France
6. Normandy, France
7. Oise-Aisne, France
8. Rhone, France
9. Somme, France
10. St. Mihiel, France
11. Suresnes, France

Go to these cemeteries in France-either in person or a virtual tour through the Web-and then talk to me about the unjust treatment of France in this article. American blood for France’s liberation.

Regards,
Hist2004

Enough with stupidity.I've been several times to the cemetary in Lorraine and all i can do is thanks them.
But if you or Bill O'Reilly are not happy because ours government have a diplomatic fight you can both kiss my hairy French ass.

[Scrim]

I wonder if this boycott is really hurting France? Id be interested to see some figures. I can tell you from experience that the $40 bottle of French Vodka at my friends Liqour store is now $19.99!
Ive always hated France, so nothing new for me.

[hist2004]

How courageous of you both to insult someone behind the
safety of your keyboards. France and Europe would certainly
look different if not for the United States. Even today, your
economy, which is growing at 1% per year, is dependent on
American dollars. Apparently you both still don’t have a clue
as to why American’s take exception to your countries policies.
Open your minds and re-read the post-enlightenment awaits you.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Secret Squirrel]

How courageous of you both to insult someone behind the
safety of your keyboards. France and Europe would certainly
look different if not for the United States. Even today, your
economy, which is growing at 1% per year, is dependent on
American dollars. Apparently you both still don’t have a clue
as to why American’s take exception to your countries policies.
Open your minds and re-read the post-enlightenment awaits you.

Regards,
Hist2004

one of the mods should put a sticky and add all the U.S versus France threads. They tend to boil down to "looks at all the American bodies in France, without us you'd be speaking German" vs. "Without France's help during the Rev. the U.S might not exist"...etc. And then sometimes it boils down to Native Americans wanting their land back.

[fred_engles]

Brie on toast for me, please.

[Jehuty]

How courageous of you both to insult someone behind the
safety of your keyboards.

It's not more courageous to say "Look we saved you 60 years ago" everytime we disagree with you (even if i disagree with Chirac about Afghanistan). I don't think it made us lost this right.


France and Europe would certainly
look different if not for the United States.

Who said otherwise here?


Even today, your
economy, which is growing at 1% per year, is dependent on
American dollars.

Great change of subject, do you have any point?


Open your minds

It's the pot calling the kettle black like you americans say.

Just boycott if it pleases you, i'll still eat Brie tommorow and it won't make me cry if you stop buying French products.
I'm just happy that here people don't have the same attitude. (because we could easely make Americans companies lost millions of $, France is after all one of the biggest market of Europe)

[hist2004]

I will repeat this again-our country was attacked, the days of no response
are over, the US would like France to cooperate in this fight against terror,
which will certainly come to France one day. France has put up every obstacle
possible given it's involvement with Saddam and the Oil for food
scandal. Knowing that your economy is dependent on American dollars,
the policy is still to obstruct. So be it, but if we no longer wish to support your
economy, don't ask why. And if you don't know what a personal attack is as
opposed to a fact of history, I'm hardly the one to explain that to you.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Midtown]

geez, it makes me so glad im going to be over there in france this month. When anti- americanism is at its highest.

[Jehuty]

France has put up every obstacle
possible given it's involvement with Saddam and the Oil for food
scandal.

I'd say the French government did something or didn't do something, not the local producer of Brie. You are dead wrong if you think a boycott would make Chirac's government change his foreign policy.


Knowing that your economy is dependent on American dollars,

The majority of our trade is done with the rest of EU, sure America as a big part on it but just like American economy also rely on others countries especially EU (and therefore France).


So be it, but if we no longer wish to support your
economy, don't ask why.

Then do it, don't tell it.
It's about time i hear about a total boycott but it seems that most of your fellow countrymens are reasonnable people.


And if you don't know what a personal attack is as
opposed to a fact of history, I'm hardly the one to explain that to you.


Your post about WW2 deads wasn't really realted to the subject. Or maybe it was again another attempt to say "Look they forgot"?
I don't think i've been that rude with you but if it hurted you my sincere apologizes :roll:

[martinexsquaddie]

how was the invasion of iraq anything to do with sept 11?
as much as bush wants the two linked not even his mate tony fell for that one :(

[Flagg]

I like brie....and stinky cheese....I love stinky cheese :P

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

how was the invasion of iraq anything to do with sept 11?
as much as bush wants the two linked not even his mate tony fell for that one :(

still trying to figure that one out....

[DE_Six]

I like brie....and stinky cheese....I love stinky cheese :P

So do I, my fellow gourmet...

Ah, food boycott is silly. Everytime there's an anti-war/-WTO/-whatever leftist outcry of rage protest against the west, the protesters gather at McDonald's after to grab a Big Mac... :roll:
At least in my part of the world... ;)

I like France, I like french people, I really don't like Chirac, but I sure as hell like brie...although I tend to prefer Pont-Levesque... :P

[MolliG]

For God's sake! Can't the men who came from afar to liberate Europe sixty years ago, who have nothing to really do with today's politics, just be left in peace! It disgusts me...

:roll:

[TRACER_BULLET]

I can understand the frustration with the French Government ... But not with the French people. I've been to France 2 time and both time I had a great time (the one bad occasion was waking up with a wicked hang over after drinking with some Scottish guy:lol: ). I even have a coworker/friend who grew up in Paris now he's an American citizen, he says he left due to the political stance of France among other reason. I'm sure he'd agree with any of you about their strange foreign policy. But like he says that’s no reason to pigeon hole the entire population.

A boycott of French goods is pointless would it help change French foreign policy, I highly doubt it.

[b.scheller]

France wouldn't be speaking German, they'd still be French the only difference is, that the whole of the European continent would have been communist and most likely we would still be living in the Cold War.

[Kilgor]

Its no suprise

france tends to engage with enemies (or close to) of the United states and democracy.

Look at all the arms sales to sadam, the nuclear reactor, the huge debt that was still owed,oil for food, No wonder it was "NON!" to war.

They have been increasing dipolmatic relations to Iran, desprately want to lift the chinese arms embargo, and god knows what else because I cant be bothered to look at google.

France isnt a enemy of the United states yet, but they are sure acting like one.

[b.scheller]

Chirac wants to create France back into a superpower, and of course he wants money for all the obselete equipment they've sent to different countries.

[Red]

C'mon guys,dont blame the French people for the mistakes of Chirac cause i know you guys get pissed when you are blamed for the mistakes of Bush or your respective leaders.The Politicians are like that,only Politicians understand Politicians.But if France dont want to get involved with any military operation then no problem,you leave them alone and find another source of support.By boycotting these products you will only hurt innocent people who might not even support the way Chirac is dealing with the US.Bill Orielly is full of crap in my opinion.

[b.scheller]

Chirac is the man to blame, but I think that he helps his business feel the same way. I remember that when Poland refused to buy old worthless Mirage's from the French (for more then they're getting the F-16's), they decided not to open a French auto factory in Poland they had set a contract for, and went to the Czech's instead...

[fantassin]

In the name of all French people, sorry for having an independant foreign policy and for being foolish enough no to follow blindly big brother like a good recently liberated Eastern European country.

Ever so sorry.

NOT.

BTW, there are (and has been) French troops in Afghanistan since the beginning of 2002 and their number has recently been increased, part of both the ISAF and OEF.

[hist2004]

French Policy Against Ousting Saddam Hussein in 2003

http://www.lexnotes.com/misc/jacques_iraq.htm

Regards,
Hist2004

[gilgoul]

I will repeat this again-our country was attacked, the days of no response
are over, the US would like France to cooperate in this fight against terror,
which will certainly come to France one day. France has put up every obstacle
possible given it's involvement with Saddam and the Oil for food
scandal. Knowing that your economy is dependent on American dollars,
the policy is still to obstruct. So be it, but if we no longer wish to support your
economy, don't ask why. And if you don't know what a personal attack is as
opposed to a fact of history, I'm hardly the one to explain that to you.

Regards,
Hist2004

With all respect, france economy is far from being dependant d dollar, and if you ask me, the Euro became the stringest currency out there.
Still, the policy of MF Jacques Chirac and his clique shouldn`t blur your judgment ther`s always been a sense of challenge between the two countries, but animosity is the wort enemy, and doesn`t make gentlemen confrontation.
France`s succesive govt deserve the blame for a lot of concessions to terrorists states, but once again, pumishing brie producers won`t get you closer to your goal

[hist2004]

No Brie for me is being taken alittle too literal. If France wishes to oppose
the US that's their choice. A boycott will hurt France in many ways, not
just the producers of "Brie". Read the link I posted about Chirac's association
with Saddam over the years, then view the sources at the end
of the link so no one will assume it's Michael Moore-ish.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Pégase]

French Policy Against Ousting Saddam Hussein in 2003

""
Regards,
Hist2004


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

sorry, but this is too easy

and French contribution to the Gulf War in 1991, do u forget this one or do u want us to be revisionist ?

[hist2004]

The US supported Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war because Iran was seen
as the greater threat. After the invasion of Kuwait, France stayed on board
with Iraq with the reasons stated in the link.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Pégase]

do u work for Halliburton ?

[hist2004]

No- are they looking for help? :cantbeli:

Regards,
Hist2004

[henksmoeder]

Why should France or any other country agree with everything? The beauty of democracy is the possibilty to oppose and question. Nations included. Why is it, that a lot of americans always talk about democracy and even fight wars for it, but they tend to forget the first rule of it. The right to disagree. Even in your own country (Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, and MANY others, the amounts of threats ousted towards them on this forum alone is incredible).

[hist2004]

Why should France or any other country agree with everything? The beauty of democracy is the possibilty to oppose and question. Nations included. Why is it, that a lot of americans always talk about democracy and even fight wars for it, but they tend to forget the first rule of it. The right to disagree. Even in your own country (Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, and MANY others, the amounts of threats ousted towards them on this forum alone is incredible).

France doesn't have to agree with the US. It's Chirac's relationship with
Saddam (again, read link I posted) that drives his policies.

Regards,
Hist2004

[AROUETLJ]

Hist, you seem to know a lot of stuff that we don't. You could try to get the International Criminal Court to charge Chirac with assisting in genocide and other stuff. I'll help you if you need to collect evidence for the trial.

[hist2004]

Hist, you seem to know a lot of stuff that we don't. You could try to get the International Criminal Court to charge Chirac with assisting in genocide and other stuff. I'll help you if you need to collect evidence for the trial.

No thanks-If I need assistance, I'll just go to the U.N.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Fargin]

I'm gonna boycott my french fries at McDonalds and order chineese instead. p-)

I don't hold US president against US citizens, oppose to the french who actually elected their president themselves.

[b.scheller]

french fries are as french as lasagna is British... :roll:

[henksmoeder]

Why should France or any other country agree with everything? The beauty of democracy is the possibilty to oppose and question. Nations included. Why is it, that a lot of americans always talk about democracy and even fight wars for it, but they tend to forget the first rule of it. The right to disagree. Even in your own country (Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, and MANY others, the amounts of threats ousted towards them on this forum alone is incredible).

France doesn't have to agree with the US. It's Chirac's relationship with
Saddam (again, read link I posted) that drives his policies.

Regards,
Hist2004

Yeah, but that is a pot calling a kettle black. The US too does a lot of things for their own interests, thus using their veto and their power to block certain decisions (think about Kyoto).

[mack pl]

french fries are as french as lasagna is British... :roll:

yeah, I think its belgian(sp.) idea ;)

[AROUETLJ]

We haven't got any problems with that, because we just call them chips.

[hist2004]

Yeah, but that is a pot calling a kettle black. The US too does a lot of things for their own interests, thus using their veto and their power to block certain decisions (think about Kyoto).

That’s true-the United States will use it’s veto power as will Russia, China, Britain, or France.
I think comparing Kyoto-a Treaty that commits industrialized nations to reducing emissions
of greenhouse gases to removing one of the world’s worst mass murders is a disingenuous argument.
Saddam is in the league of Stalin or Hitler along with Cambodia’ Pol Pot. Chirac had financial
arrangements with Saddam and Iraq that disavowed what he was doing to his own people.
UN resolution 1441 was a 15-0 vote. All countries saw the intell and voted to
remove him, until what? They saw we were serious? France is supposed to be an ally, the
Us would like it to act that way, how would France react if the US put up obstacles to
the interventions in Africa recently-France did not go to the UN to ask permission. It
did what was in it’s national security interests.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Fargin]

french fries are as french as lasagna is British... :roll:

Subtle humor was wasted on you.

[henksmoeder]

Yeah, but that is a pot calling a kettle black. The US too does a lot of things for their own interests, thus using their veto and their power to block certain decisions (think about Kyoto).

That’s true-the United States will use it’s veto power as will Russia, China, Britain, or France.
I think comparing Kyoto-a Treaty that commits industrialized nations to reducing emissions
of greenhouse gases to removing one of the world’s worst mass murders is a disingenuous argument.
Saddam is in the league of Stalin or Hitler along with Cambodia’ Pol Pot. Chirac had financial
arrangements with Saddam and Iraq that disavowed what he was doing to his own people.
UN resolution 1441 was a 15-0 vote. All countries saw the intell and voted to
remove him, until what? They saw we were serious? France is supposed to be an ally, the
Us would like it to act that way, how would France react if the US put up obstacles to
the interventions in Africa recently-France did not go to the UN to ask permission. It
did what was in it’s national security interests.

Regards,
Hist2004

First of all, I don't think that comparing Kyoto with removing Sadam is a disingenuous argument. If Kyoto isn't signed, it will cause more deaths than Sadam ever did.

Once again, the US did exactly the same. They supported Hitler for a short while, they supported Batista, they supported the contra's, they supported (ironic one) Castro until they found out he was a 'supposed' marxist, they supported Bin Laden, they supported Sadam Hussein (maybe not on such a large scale like France, but support = support). I can go on and on, but the fact is remains. A country acts in it's national security interests. The US does and France does and every other country does. That doesn't make them an enemy all of the sudden.

[hist2004]

First of all, I don't think that comparing Kyoto with removing Sadam is a disingenuous argument. If Kyoto isn't signed, it will cause more deaths than Sadam ever did.

Once again, the US did exactly the same. They supported Hitler for a short while, they supported Batista, they supported the contra's, they supported (ironic one) Castro until they found out he was a 'supposed' marxist, they supported Bin Laden, they supported Sadam Hussein (maybe not on such a large scale like France, but support = support). I can
go on and on, but the fact is remains. A country acts in it's national security interests. The US does and France does and every other country does. That doesn't make them an enemy all of the sudden.

Kyoto a treaty, as opposed to the ten's of thousands Saddam killed? I can
look at the history of the US intervention in Central and South America,
Iran with the Shah, and say we were wrong. It's a fact of history, just as
Chirac's support of Saddam places him on the wrong side of history. We
will never know the consequences of not taking out Saddam. Would he have
eventually passed WMD to terrorists for use against the US, Israel or Europe?
After 9/11 in the US our President was not prepared to find out.

Thanks for everyone's input,

Regards,
Hist2004

[b.scheller]

french fries are as french as lasagna is British... :roll:

Subtle humor was wasted on you.

no, i knew you were attempting to be humorous...i was just a jerk and ruined it for you ;)

[ibstolidude]

Yeah, but that is a pot calling a kettle black. The US too does a lot of things for their own interests, thus using their veto and their power to block certain decisions (think about Kyoto).

That’s true-the United States will use it’s veto power as will Russia, China, Britain, or France.
I think comparing Kyoto-a Treaty that commits industrialized nations to reducing emissions
of greenhouse gases to removing one of the world’s worst mass murders is a disingenuous argument.
Saddam is in the league of Stalin or Hitler along with Cambodia’ Pol Pot. Chirac had financial
arrangements with Saddam and Iraq that disavowed what he was doing to his own people.
UN resolution 1441 was a 15-0 vote. All countries saw the intell and voted to
remove him, until what? They saw we were serious? France is supposed to be an ally, the
Us would like it to act that way, how would France react if the US put up obstacles to
the interventions in Africa recently-France did not go to the UN to ask permission. It
did what was in it’s national security interests.

Regards,
Hist2004

First of all, I don't think that comparing Kyoto with removing Sadam is a disingenuous argument. If Kyoto isn't signed, it will cause more deaths than Sadam ever did.

Once again, the US did exactly the same. They supported Hitler for a short while, they supported Batista, they supported the contra's, they supported (ironic one) Castro until they found out he was a 'supposed' marxist, they supported Bin Laden, they supported Sadam Hussein (maybe not on such a large scale like France, but support = support). I can go on and on, but the fact is remains. A country acts in it's national security interests. The US does and France does and every other country does. That doesn't make them an enemy all of the sudden.
Kyoto is a farce. Danish statistician Bjorn Lomborg, once a member of Greenpeace, argued that predictions of the world heading for ruin are wrong. In 1997 he set out to challenge acclaimed economist Julian Simon who refuted environmentalist claims that the world was running out of resources. Lomborg discovered that the data on a whole supported Simon. "The Skeptical Environmentalist," Lomborg's new book is a composite of graphs, charts and statistics that factually show the earth's environment is steadily improving.

His book asserts among other things that the global warming issue is overblown. In short he attests, "Things are getting better." In his presentation, Lomborg said that global warming is a real issue, but suggested that the prime danger is the Kyoto Treaty, which he cites as a grand waste of money. He said, "Essentially Kyoto will do very little to change global warming. On the other hand Kyoto will be very expensive. It will cost anywhere from $150-350 billion a year, and that's a lot of money when compared to the total global aid of $50 billion a year. Basically, just for one year of Kyoto, we could give clean drinking water and sanitation to every person on earth. This would avoid 2 million deaths a year, and assist half a billion people from not getting seriously ill each year." Kyoto offers the perception of saving the world; in reality it does little. It is a reflection of the worlds grand idealism and lack of realism - essentially "they" would rather tackle a potential problem than the tangables in the world; there is no debate over the deaths cause by diseases and dehydration.

[budanski]

The true purpose of Kyoto... (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/06/09/002.html)

Even if it were all true, remember the "nuclear winter" scenarios? A nuclear weapons exchange would throw so much dust into the air that the earth would plunge into another ice age. It follows then that, if global warming gets out of hand, we can just resume above ground testing of nukes and everything will even out. ;)

[duck]

And if a giant Tsunami wave should one day engulf SF and NYC and a new ice age destroy the midwestern wheat fields, Bill on the telly and Russ on the airwaves would still find a cool conservative viewpoint to make it more palatable.

[budanski]

A tsunami taking out the left coast and liberal east coast? I think Bill and Rush would be riding those 100 foot waves with glee.

[duck]

Remember, they report, you decide.

[Javehn]

Hmmm...


"No brie for me, Argentina ...
You know I never left you ..."

rofl rofl