American troops are killing and abusing Afghans, rights body

[ariweiner]

American troops are killing and abusing Afghans, rights body says

Brian Whitaker
Monday March 8, 2004
The Guardian

US troops in Afghanistan are operating outside the rule of law, using excessive force to make arrests, mistreating detainees and holding them indefinitely in a "legal black hole" without any legal safeguards, a report published today says.

Having gone to war to combat terrorism and remove the oppressive Taliban regime, the United States is now undermining efforts to restore the rule of law and endangering the lives of civilians, Human Rights Watch says.

Its military forces have repeatedly used deadly force from helicopter gunships and small and heavy arms fire during "what are essentially law-enforcement operations" to arrest suspected criminals in residential areas where there is no military conflict, the report says.

"The use of these tactics has resulted in avoidable civilian deaths and injuries, and in individual cases may amount to violations of international humanitarian law."

HRW acknowledges that the Americans are opposed by armed groups which pay little heed to humanitarian law or human rights.

"But the activities of these groups are no excuse for US violations. Abuses by one party to a conflict, no matter how egregious, do not justify violations by the other side."

The report cites complaints collected by a UN official of "cowboy-like" tactics against people "who generally turn out to be law-abiding citizens". They include blowing doors open with grenades rather than knocking.

In one instance helicopters attacked the home of Ahmed Khan and his family in the Zurmat district in Paktia province, an area firmly under the control of Afghan forces at the time.

"We were lying in bed," Mr Khan told HRW. "Suddenly, there was a lot of noise. Some helicopters came, we could hear them circling and firing machine guns ... they rocketed a hole through the wall."

The Americans forced their way in and rounded up the family.

"Then they searched the house. They broke all the windows, and tore the doors off cupboards, and shot open the boxes, and turned them over," Mr Khan said.

The extent of damage to neighbouring homes showed that they "used considerable firepower even though there was no evidence of any armed opposition," the report says.

A farmer in the fields nearby was shot dead and a woman in one of the houses was injured.

Afghans blame many raids on malicious tip-offs by other Afghans using the US as an unwitting proxy in local quarrels or as a means of extorting money, the report says.

Human Rights Watch is also concerned about the treatment of those arrested.

"The United States is setting a terrible example in Afghanistan on detention practices," said Brad Adams, executive director of the organisation's Asia division.

"Civilians are being held in a legal black hole with no tribunals, no legal counsel, no family visits and no basic legal protections."

The US holds detainees at its Bagram, Kandahar, Jalalabad and Asadabad bases, where there have been complaints of their being severely beaten, doused with cold water, forced to stay awake or made to stand or kneel in painful positions for long periods.

"There is compelling evidence suggesting that US personnel have committed acts against detainees amounting to torture or cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment," Mr Adams said.

[He219]

ariwiener; your propaganda is getting trite ...


what ever happened with your more imaginative posts?
:lol:

[gilgoul]

HRW, give me a break, the most biased of the humanitarian sphere, i`ll wait for the report of amnesty international, and then take it with a lot of caution.
HRW has a big flaw in it`s methodology, it bases it`d report only on testymonies of the "victims" and on public "wallah, I swear on the koran and my daughte/uncle/grand dad might they be damned for 7 generation if I lie" expert opinion.
Reminder, HRW was the first group to accuse Israel of "undescriminate massacre in Jenin" and other dinosaurs ****, and never formaly retracted or apoogized like did other observation groups.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Oh yes, the Guardian, who brought us the fake abuse pictures. And HRW, of course deeply concerned for the Afghan people & have been there for years helping...oh no wait, they didn't give a damn about the Afghans until they could bash the U.S. at the same time. Pardon while I reach around here...yes there it is..and...>flush< :)

[Secret Squirrel]

Oh yes, the Guardian, who brought us the fake abuse pictures. And HRW, of course deeply concerned for the Afghan people & have been there for years helping...oh no wait, they didn't give a damn about the Afghans until they could bash the U.S. at the same time. Pardon while I reach around here...yes there it is..and...>flush< :)

You mean the Daily Mirror.

[Uncle Sam]

Are-you-a-wiener...

[Operation Ivy]

link?

[Ichhabe]

ariweiner, instead of making your ****ty postings: Why don't you go out in the world and see if you can make a difference.

Or do you prefer bashing on those who at least try? Yeah, I know the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. But better to have tried and failed than just sitting on your butt and do nothing.

[admar2]

way to dig up a story from 4 months ago.

douchebag.

:bash:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

ariweiner, instead of making your ****ty postings: Why don't you go out in the world and see if you can make a difference.

Or do you prefer bashing on those who at least try? Yeah, I know the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. But better to have tried and failed than just sitting on your butt and do nothing.

Oh hes trying to make a difference alright :roll: ...hes going to go over to chechnya and fight russian troops, but hasnt left yet ;)

[ariweiner]

ariwiener; your propaganda is getting trite ...


what ever happened with your more imaginative posts?
This isn't really propoganda. I believe that if we are going to condemn atrocities and abuses, it should not be used just for our enemies but also for ourselves and our allies. Btw, what are my imaginative posts? :|
===

Reminder, HRW was the first group to accuse Israel of "undescriminate massacre in Jenin" and other dinosaurs ****, and never formaly retracted or apoogized like did other observation groups.
HRW and Amnesty's AAR on Jenin was almost exactly the same word for word.
===

Oh yes, the Guardian, who brought us the fake abuse pictures.
That wasn't the Guardian, it was the Daily Mirror which I understand is a tabloid though I might be mistaken.

oh no wait, they didn't give a damn about the Afghans until they could bash the U.S. at the same time
Errr, maybe you should go back and read this reports and history.
===

Or do you prefer bashing on those who at least try? Yeah, I know the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. But better to have tried and failed than just sitting on your butt and do nothing.
Making people aware of abuses within the system IS doing something. Until I can do something physical, I will speak out.
===

way to dig up a story from 4 months ago.
:oops: :oops: :oops:

Darn I only noticed that now. Either way, I think it should be known that abuses appear to be systematic and are not an isolated incident. Remember the reports of the Taliban POW massacres allegedly orchestrated by US forces amid the immediate suicides of 4 SF troops who were allegedly at the massacre sites who came home and killed their wives and themselves, the Walker Lindh photo in custody, the Gitmo "beating squads" reported by ex-detainees etc. Way too much evidence to simply ignore it and dismiss as irrelevant.

[ariweiner]

Oh hes trying to make a difference alright :roll: ...hes going to go over to chechnya and fight russian troops, but hasnt left yet ;)

Lol. It's true though. My intention is dead serious and I'm not joking about doing that. My only current obstacle is professional training. Though I should be able to overcome that shortly. After that the only obstacle should be hooking up with Maskhadov's forces which shouldn't be too difficult considering the fact that some of the Chechen envoy's in the US facilitate...ummm...never mind.

[UoUo]

LoL it so funny to see suddenly how you become a human right active...but in the same time you support groups like Hamas..Hizbulla..and act.

Lame. ****ing ignorant ass.

[ariweiner]

LoL it so funny to see suddenly how you become a human right active...but in the same time you support groups like Hamas..Hizbulla..and act.
My support for them is in their main effort to rid themselves of a tyrannical occupation. I do not support individual acts of terrorism that they might perpetrate.

[Maj12]

Oh hes trying to make a difference alright :roll: ...hes going to go over to chechnya and fight russian troops, but hasnt left yet ;)

Lol. It's true though. My intention is dead serious and I'm not joking about doing that. My only current obstacle is professional training. Though I should be able to overcome that shortly. After that the only obstacle should be hooking up with Maskhadov's forces which shouldn't be too difficult considering the fact that some of the Chechen envoy's in the US facilitate...ummm...never mind.

lol godspeed on your mission, pal. i hope you get what's coming to you.

:roll:

...pathetic.

[UoUo]

LoL it so funny to see suddenly how you become a human right active...but in the same time you support groups like Hamas..Hizbulla..and act.
My support for them is in their main effort to rid themselves of a tyrannical occupation. I do not support individual acts of terrorism that they might perpetrate.

What you consider as terror? kill a 20 years old man in Ashdod (o hears hamas considerd that as conquered zone)...

You think it's terorr?

By supporting the group you supporting thier act... :-*$

[ariweiner]

By supporting the group you supporting thier act
So someone who supported Clinton supports adultery? No! You can support the overall effort of a group without supporting some of their methods.

[UoUo]

By supporting the group you supporting thier act
So someone who supported Clinton supports adultery? No! You can support the overall effort of a group without supporting some of their methods.

Yeah..the goal in clinton life was " adultery" :roll:

The main goal of hamas is to end the Jewish state. and rise a palstinain State in all Israel.

And what about my other points? answer please.

[ariweiner]

The main goal of hamas is to end the Jewish state. and rise a palstinain State in all Israel.
"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers. The attacks inside Israel are operations we carry out in response to Israeli crimes against our people. They are not the strategy of our movement. Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements." - Shaikh Ahmed Yassin (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1224)

[He219]

LoL it so funny to see suddenly how you become a human right active...but in the same time you support groups like Hamas..Hizbulla..and act.
My support for them is in their main effort to rid themselves of a tyrannical occupation. I do not support individual acts of terrorism that they might perpetrate.

That you don't see your own contradiction is sad.

[ariweiner]

That you don't see your own contradiction is sad.
You are right: I don't see a contradiction. What is the contradiction anyway? As far as I can see, my statements are uniform

[UoUo]

The main goal of hamas is to end the Jewish state. and rise a palstinain State in all Israel.
"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers. The attacks inside Israel are operations we carry out in response to Israeli crimes against our people. They are not the strategy of our movement. Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements." - Shaikh Ahmed Yassin (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1224)


Shaikh Ahmed Yassin can kiss my ase...

So what if he told that? Osama also tell after any terror attack that that revenge on what the american did to that and that...yeah what ever... you ever saw the symbol of hamas?

Take few of the palstinans terror group symbols...


http://www.moledet.org.il/teror.html :bash:

[Moledet]

The main goal of hamas is to end the Jewish state. and rise a palstinain State in all Israel.
"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers. The attacks inside Israel are operations we carry out in response to Israeli crimes against our people. They are not the strategy of our movement. Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements." - Shaikh Ahmed Yassin (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1224)
LOL.
He has two faces like all the arabs, he is talking to the west in that way and to his own people he say:"Itbah el Yahud".
Straight from the hamas site:
"Hamas was formed in 1987 with the objective of destroying the Zionist entity that occupies Palestine, and establishing Palestine from the sea to the river based on Islamic principles."
http://www.hamasonline.com/indexx.php?page=Hamas/hamas_profile

[SwissGrenadier]

Oh hes trying to make a difference alright :roll: ...hes going to go over to chechnya and fight russian troops, but hasnt left yet ;)

Lol. It's true though. My intention is dead serious and I'm not joking about doing that. My only current obstacle is professional training. Though I should be able to overcome that shortly. After that the only obstacle should be hooking up with Maskhadov's forces which shouldn't be too difficult considering the fact that some of the Chechen envoy's in the US facilitate...ummm...never mind.

you really ARE nuts :cantbeli:

why don't you take your medication osama?

:fork:

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Human Rights Watch? Give me a break, I saw one of these jokers being interviewed the other day and he said that sleep deprivation was a major abuse and violated the rules of humanity. He was asked what we should be allowed to to with major terrorist figures whom may have very valuable intel that could prevent attacks and he more or less said ask them and leave it at that. You gotta be f*cking kidding me. I don't hear human rights watch up in arms when people are getting beheaded and treated like totally savages by the enemy.

[ariweiner]

Whoa, fighting for what one believes in makes one crazy? Interesting perspective.

[Moledet]

Whoa, fighting for what one believes in makes one crazy? Interesting perspective.
Yes, if he wants to kill a nation.

[ariweiner]

Whoa, fighting for what one believes in makes one crazy? Interesting perspective.
Yes, if he wants to kill a nation.

I was referring to Chechnya. Either way re: Hamas etc their goal from what I hear from their leaders is the end of the occupation and establishment of the right of return or at least compensation for the stolen land and property. Which is a perfectly reasonable and just offer.

[5jumpchump]

Oh hes trying to make a difference alright :roll: ...hes going to go over to chechnya and fight russian troops, but hasnt left yet ;)

Lol. It's true though. My intention is dead serious and I'm not joking about doing that. My only current obstacle is professional training. Though I should be able to overcome that shortly. After that the only obstacle should be hooking up with Maskhadov's forces which shouldn't be too difficult considering the fact that some of the Chechen envoy's in the US facilitate...ummm...never mind.

What the **** are you still doing in this country **** face ? Get the **** out , goto Chechnya and get your head cut off ****neck . Seriously you ****ing piece of chit GET THE **** OUT OF THIS KICK ASS COUNTRY , GO DIE IN YOU ****ING JIHAD AGAINST THE INFIDELS !

[UoUo]

rofl

What i heard.. rofl rofl

You also heard that we use spaciel licensing plate for arabs.. rofl rofl

Hamas...i gave you maps that show what Hamas considerd as Pal'....

BTW..right of return means end of the jewsih state...so don't **** aroud..just say that you think the jewish state has no right to exist.

[Moledet]

Whoa, fighting for what one believes in makes one crazy? Interesting perspective.
Yes, if he wants to kill a nation.

I was referring to Chechnya. Either way re: Hamas etc their goal from what I hear from their leaders is the end of the occupation and establishment of the right of return or at least compensation for the stolen land and property. Which is a perfectly reasonable and just offer.
Again, what that you hear from them in the west is not what that they want. They all the time lie to the west, to their own people they say the truth and most of the time it's:"With our spirit and blood we will redeem you Palestine". We didn't write the goals of the Hamas, Sheikh Yassin iban Kalb wrote them, when he talks to the west he just lie.

If that was their goal, they would have talked with Israel instead of killing or as Yassin said:"We won't talk with the Zionist enemy".

Stop trying to make them look like saints, they are TERRORISTS and they wish the killing of ALL THE JEWS in Israel, stop telling **** that you hear in your mosque from abu Jihad.

[ariweiner]

BTW..right of return means end of the jewsih state...so don't f*** aroud..just say that you think the jewish state has no right to exist.
Right of return: A principle of International law which states that if you leave your home during a conflict, you have the right to return to your home when you want to. So, if what you are saying is true, that implementing the Right of Return would put an end to Israel, then what you mean is that Israel is an illegal state!

[Moledet]

BTW..right of return means end of the jewsih state...so don't f*** aroud..just say that you think the jewish state has no right to exist.
Right of return: A principle of International law which states that if you leave your home during a conflict, you have the right to return to your home when you want to. So, if what you are saying is true, that implementing the Right of Return would put an end to Israel, then what you mean is that Israel is an illegal state!
In Europe after WW2 they deicded that all the refugees will stay where they are, Israel also adopted this law in 1948.
It will realy bring an end to israel because if there will be another 3.5 million arabian citizens the Jews in two years will be a minority and a muslim PM will be chosen, he ofcourse won't accept any Jewish law or any Jewish symbol and the country will be destroyed. Ofcourse in the tradition of the muslim countries he will kick all the Jews out or will cancel most of the rights of the Jewish population.

[ariweiner]

Just tell me, isn't it reasonable and just? That if you flee your home during conflict, that you have the right to return to it?

EDIT:


Ofcourse in the tradition of the muslim countries he will kick all the Jews out or will cancel most of the rights of the Jewish population.
The Arab countries kicked out the Jews in DIRECT retaliation for Palestinians kicked out of their homes in what is now Israel.

[Moledet]

Just tell me, isn't it reasonable and just? That if you flee your home during conflict, that you have the right to return to it?
They fled because they wanted to make the job of the arabian armies easier, they wanted the killing of all the Jews in Isreal, does it sound resonable to you?
They are now the worse enemy of Israel, they support killing of people as long as they are Jewish, no sane nation will let its enemy to enter its country.

EDITED: That's just a stupid excuse, even before that there were pogrmos in Jews in the arabian countries, they took homes of Jews and left them to live in the streets.
P.S. That's not even an excuse, that's like we will go and kill 6 million germans for what that happend in WW2.

[5jumpchump]

Well gee let me think here for a second . Jews across Europe are genocide by the Germans and the very next day after UN gives them a place to call their own six different Arab nations attack them and attempt to push them into the sea and eventually got their ass handed to them in 6 short days . 50 years of terrorism and suicide bombings biatching and crying you want your land back . Give me a friggin break . If Palestine was so ****ing important why didn't you declare it an Islamic state way back then ? :bash: ****ing retards . Start a war , deal with the consequences .

[StukaJr]

Maybe if Palestinians were ruled by a single and people elected government, instead of a bunch of militant terrorist cells bent on extermination rather than a peaceful solution - peace and prosperity would be attained by both sides by now... You find me one example, when Israel broke any treaty unprovoked or acting as a retaliation/prevention of terrorist acts...

And why was this thread highjacked from its original BS topic?

[ariweiner]

They fled because they wanted to make the job of the arabian armies easier, they wanted the killing of all the Jews in Isreal, does it sound resonable to you?
It is a more reasonable suggestion that they fled in fear of the massacres that Haganah, Irgun and the Stern gang were carrying But answer the question. Is the right to return to your home a just right?

That's just a stupid excuse, even before that there were pogrmos in Jews in the arabian countries, they took homes of Jews and left them to live in the streets.
Only after the Zionist movement did mass anti-Jewish feeling arise. Herzl has the problem with Europe not with the Arabs! It was France that wouldn't give Dreyfuss his rights. So, because of European anti-semitism, the Palestinians have to suffer.

P.S. That's not even an excuse, that's like we will go and kill 6 million germans for what that happend in WW2.
Why not have established the Jewish state in Germany? Surely at least that would have been fair. Instead, to establish a homeland, they had to go steal someone elses.
===


Well gee let me think here for a second . Jews across Europe are genocide by the Germans and the very next day after UN gives them a place to call their own
Who the hell is the UN to give away land that is not theirs?

If Palestine was so ... important why didn't you declare it an Islamic state way back then ?
Because it wasn't viewed through Islamic eyes but rather through the eyes of Arab nationalism.

[UoUo]

BTW..right of return means end of the jewsih state...so don't f*** aroud..just say that you think the jewish state has no right to exist.
Right of return: A principle of International law which states that if you leave your home during a conflict, you have the right to return to your home when you want to. So, if what you are saying is true, that implementing the Right of Return would put an end to Israel, then what you mean is that Israel is an illegal state!

Yeah..Israel is illegal state :roll: .. and even so.. you know what? You and your 1 billion brothers just can't do **** about that cuz your bunch of ass.

[Moledet]

It is a more reasonable suggestion that they fled in fear of the massacres that Haganah, Irgun and the Stern gang were carrying But answer the question. Is the right to return to your home a just right?

There was only one Massacre.
People have a right to return to their home only if they are not the enemy.


Only after the Zionist movement did mass anti-Jewish feeling arise. Herzl has the problem with Europe not with the Arabs! It was France that wouldn't give Dreyfuss his rights. So, because of European anti-semitism, the Palestinians have to suffer.

I see that the mosques teach you well. Antisemitism exist since 70AC when the romans tried to kill/convert all the Jews.
I can't understand what all that you wrote has to do with pogroms in the arabian countries.



Why not have established the Jewish state in Germany? Surely at least that would have been fair. Instead, to establish a homeland, they had to go steal someone elses.
===

Because there's a country there and it's called Germany, in addition the german land was never rulled by Jews and there was never a Jewish majority in Germany, so we have no clame on it.



Who the hell is the UN to give away land that is not theirs?

The UN was the owner of this land.

[ariweiner]

Yeah..Israel is illegal state icon_rolleyes.gif .. and even so.. you know what? You and your 1 billion brothers just can't do **** about that cuz your bunch of ass.
Whoa! Always insults... :|

There was only one Massacre.
People have a right to return to their home only if they are not the enemy.
One massacre is enough. And what do you mean if they are not the enemy? The point is that in a conflict when people have provable legitimate ownership of the land, they should be allowed to return to their homes. This is justice. Don't you want justice?


Antisemitism exist since 70AC when the romans tried to kill/convert all the Jews.
Definitely, but note the fact that the Romans were Christians! Who allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem? The Muslims! Under Caliph Umar. Throughout Islamic history, the Muslims have helped the Jews. The above mentioned incident is one. Another would be allowing Jews almost total access to any position that they desired in Muslim Andalusia/Spain. When the Christians again kicked the Muslims and Jews out of Spain, the Ottoman Caliph gave the order that Jews are welcome in any part of the Ottoman Empire. Heck, he even had synagogues built for the Jews which is why the synagogues in ex-Ottoman areas are built Ottoman style! So after all this, why can't the Jewish people see fit to give justice to the Muslims?


I can't understand what all that you wrote has to do with pogroms in the arabian countries.
I don't know about pogroms. All I know is that the Jews were kicked out of some Arab countries in direct retaliation for Palestinians being kicked out of their homes in Palestine.


Because there's a country there and it's called Germany, in addition the german land was never rulled by Jews and there was never a Jewish majority in Germany, so we have no clame on it.
But since it was Germans and Europeans that carried out the Holocaust and not the Palestinians, why displace the Palestinians?

[usa320]

Lol. It's true though. My intention is dead serious and I'm not joking about doing that. My only current obstacle is professional training. Though I should be able to overcome that shortly. After that the only obstacle should be hooking up with Maskhadov's forces which shouldn't be too difficult considering the fact that some of the Chechen envoy's in the US facilitate...ummm...never mind.

If you think the US treats its prisoners harsh, i havent a ****less clue in hell why you would want to go **** with the Russians... They dont even bother taking prisoners.

[ariweiner]

If you think the US treats its prisoners harsh, i havent a ****less clue in hell why you would want to go f*** with the Russians... They dont even bother taking prisoners.
I know, but the point is that there is much more accountability in the American system and hence, making enough people aware of abuses usually results in change. Either way, my going to Chechnya God willing is because it is probably the harshest situation. According to our tradition, the martyr, when he meets God, will wish that he had been cut into ribbons with scissors or had something similarly horrible happen to him just because of the honor shown to him by God because this is what he went through for the sake of God. Of course, if the intention to fight is for other than God, then you're screwed...

[usa320]

someone report this nutcase to DHS...hes either a depressed, pimply faced 13 year old who worships michael moore or a nutcase amateur terrorist. Either way at the very least i think he should be banned. Having whackos like him here put this entire site in jeopardy.

[ariweiner]

Lol. Maskhadov has official representatives in the US. He and his forces are no terrorists and neither am I. Btw, I don't worship Michael Moore though his films are very entertaining.

[Sayeret]

Why doesn't Ariweiner ever get banned?

[Moledet]

One massacre is enough. And what do you mean if they are not the enemy? The point is that in a conflict when people have provable legitimate ownership of the land, they should be allowed to return to their homes. This is justice. Don't you want justice?

They are our enemy, don't you get that? They hate Israel, how can you let someone that hate you to live in your country?



Definitely, but note the fact that the Romans were Christians! Who allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem? The Muslims! Under Caliph Umar. Throughout Islamic history, the Muslims have helped the Jews. The above mentioned incident is one. Another would be allowing Jews almost total access to any position that they desired in Muslim Andalusia/Spain. When the Christians again kicked the Muslims and Jews out of Spain, the Ottoman Caliph gave the order that Jews are welcome in any part of the Ottoman Empire. Heck, he even had synagogues built for the Jews which is why the synagogues in ex-Ottoman areas are built Ottoman style! So after all this, why can't the Jewish people see fit to give justice to the Muslims?

Too bad that you forgot to mention that Muhamad killed a tribe of Jews and made their wives and children slaves.

Even if Muslim countries were not our enemy in the past they are definetly our enemy in the present, we can't let them enter our country.



I don't know about pogroms. All I know is that the Jews were kicked out of some Arab countries in direct retaliation for Palestinians being kicked out of their homes in Palestine.

There were pogrmos in the arabian countries. You can't kick out people has a retaliation, as I said, that's like we will kill 6 million germans.


But since it was Germans and Europeans that carried out the Holocaust and not the Palestinians, why displace the Palestinians?
The Palestinians FLED, they weren't displaced by anyone, we came here to live in peace with them, the Israeli government even launched letters to the arabian residents and told them to build a country together with us and not to run away, they chose to let the arabian armies to kill us all. We won the war, they lost it.

[Sayeret]

Btw, I don't worship Michael Moore though his films are very entertaining.

Neither does the IRA or for that matter Hamas.

[ariweiner]

Why doesn't Ariweiner ever get banned?
Because I am usually very reasonable and I don't call people names? Or because I have not broken the rules? I don't know really.

Anyway, Jihad is not terrorism:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html

[He219]

Why doesn't Ariweiner ever get banned?

I'm strongly contemplating that thought right now. Every post ariweiner makes seems to be flammatory rhetoric intent on stirring a hornets nest in lieu of stimulating constructive and infomative dialogue ...

How did this thread go from 'US torturing Afghanistan' to rationalizing 'Jihad' against the US and Israel?
:roll: