France and Germay Object to Punishment of Saddam

[BlackRain]

PARIS - Baghdad's decision to re-establish the death penalty ahead of the war crimes trial of Saddam Hussein evoked a mixed reaction in Europe, recalling the split across the continent over the war that toppled the Iraqi leader.

Germany and France, two of the most vocal anti-war opponents, strongly stated their opposition — without exception — to the death penalty and called on Iraqi authorities to ensure Saddam a fair trial.


In Berlin, the government's top human rights official, Claudia Roth, criticized Baghdad's move to reinstate capital punishment, which was suspended during the U.S. occupation.


"To start out this way does not send a good signal," Roth told The Associated Press. "I think it would have been a signal of democratic strength had they not reinstated the death penalty in Iraq (news - web sites)."


France called on Iraqi justice officials to hold a trial that conforms to principles of international law, and the government reiterated its opposition to the execution of convicts.


The 25-member European Union intends to let Iraq know of its opposition to the death penalty, said Emma Udwin, external relations spokeswoman for the European Commission .


But while capital punishment is outlawed across the continent, attitudes hardened farther east among the newer EU members, where support for the war was strong.


Latvian Foreign Ministry spokesman Rets Plesums said that whatever happens to Saddam after his trial is a matter of concern for Iraq — not the Baltic state.


"We are hoping that the new Iraqi courts will conduct the trial as fairly as possible, but I don't think our government will offer an opinion about what happens to Saddam Hussein," he said. "It's not our business."


Latvia, a recent newcomer also to NATO, ardently backed the U.S.-led invasion and contributed more than 100 soldiers to the coalition after fighting ended last year.


Poland, another supporter of the war, offered a similar view. Poland just decided to extend its troop deployment of 2,400 soldiers in Iraq until Dec. 31.


"Our reaction is obvious. This is a sovereign decision of an independent court and of the Iraqis themselves," said Boguslaw Majewski, spokesman for Poland's Foreign Ministry.


Roman Kuzniar, a political scientist at the Warsaw University, said the list of crimes committed by Saddam Hussein "would justify the death penalty."


Poland had capital punishment before ousting the Communist government in 1989, then eliminated it in order to join the EU.


Turkey, a Muslim nation with aspirations to join the EU one day, formally ended executions as part of its bid for membership. But many Turks still feel capital punishment is justified in some cases.


"The conscience of the people will not be satisfied if he doesn't face the death penalty," said Burhan Kuzu, a top lawmaker from Turkey's governing Justice and Development Party. "If they give the death penalty to him, this decision will not disturb me."

[Secret Squirrel]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/1/145148.shtml
rofl

[AirZone]

:cantbeli:

kthxbye

[radon]

Who cares about Saddam anyway...

[BlackRain]

Labor supports Saddam death penalty: Latham

Labor would support the death penalty for former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, Opposition Leader Mark Latham said today.

Saddam and 11 others were handed over to Iraq's new authorities yesterday, paving the way for him to appear in court today on war crimes charges following his 24 years in power.

But there is still debate about whether the court proceedings should be televised and if the harshest penalty in Iraqi's legal system, hanging, should be reinstated.

Mr Latham said it was up to the Iraqis to decide if capital punishment should be reintroduced, but he was not opposed to it.

"I wouldn't oppose it," he told the Nine Network.

"It's a matter for the Iraqis. They've got to set up their legal system, they've got to go through the trial process and make a judgment about what's best for their country in the circumstances.

"Certainly there are some heinous crimes for which he is responsible and their justice system has got to take hold."

But Mr Latham said he did not want to appear to be trying to interfere in Iraq's legal system.

"I don't like it when other countries try and interfere in Australian legal matters and our justice system and I don't try and interfere in the justice system of countries overseas," he said.

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/01/1088488061076.html?oneclick=true

[BlackRain]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/1/145148.shtml
rofl

Wrong source!

Try the original : By PAMELA SAMPSON of the Associated Press

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-europe-saddam-death-penalty,0,1436436.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

[American Patriot]

newsmax is the ****.

[Secret Squirrel]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/1/145148.shtml
rofl

Wrong source!

Try the original : By PAMELA SAMPSON of the Associated Press

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-europe-saddam-death-penalty,0,1436436.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

oh yea and newsmax has never changed an AP story (see assault guns AP memo) rofl

[Pille1234]

Hey Blackrain, a better name for you would be reniewira rofl

[chauncy republicans]

newsmax is the ****.
ROFLMAO!!!

[BlackRain]

SADDAM: FRATTINI, DEATH PENALTY TO BE AVOIDED

(AGI) – Rome, Italy, July 1 - Franco Frattini has repeated that Italy is against a possible death sentence for Saddam Hussein. "I don’t know whether the new government has really introduced the death penalty as someone said” said the foreign minister, “but I think that a death penalty should in any case be avoided”. These words recall what happened to Kurdish guerrilla leader Abdullah Ocalan, whose death penalty by Turkey was changed into a life sentence. The foreign minister underlined that “this takes nothing away from the enormity of the crimes committed by Saddam", for which "the whole international community has demanded a transparent and rigorous trial”. But “in the moment in which you decide on a person’s life” Frattini insisted, "conscience problems arise” for those like Italy who have always fought the death penalty”.

[Freibier]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

[BlackRain]

UK against Saddam death penalty
From correspondents in London
June 16, 2004

BRITISH Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said today he opposed the use of the death penalty in Iraq should former dictator Saddam Hussein be found guilty at any trial.

"We shall make very strong representations about the need not to use the death penalty," Mr Straw told lawmakers during a British parliamentary session.

"We were successful in the period of the Iraqi governing council in persuading them to suspend the death penalty," he said.

Mr Straw said Iraqi ministers were known to support the use of the death penalty for Saddam after June 30, when the US-led coalition hands over sovereignty to an interim administration.

Iraqi interim prime minister Iyad Allawi said earlier today he expects Saddam, held by US forces at an undisclosed location, will be in Iraqi custody by the time of the handover.

But US President George W. Bush said later that the interim Iraqi government must enact tougher security measures before US forces will hand Saddam over for trial.

"I just want to make sure that, when sovereignty is transferred, Saddam Hussein stays in jail," Mr Bush said.

"I'm confident that, when it's all said and done, he will stay in jail. I just want to be assured."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair, also speaking today, said he supported moves to hand over Saddam to the interim administration in Iraq.

It is "important that the decision of the prosecution and the handling of the prosecution is taken by the new Iraqi government", he told a monthly press conference at Downing Street.

Mr Blair added he pledged Britain's help to ensure the legal system there "obeys the proper rules of international law".

Saddam is likely to be tried for the persecution of Shiite Marsh Arabs in southern Iraq in the 1980s and 1990s, as well as for war crimes against Kuwait during and after the August 1990 invasion, which triggered the first Gulf War.

Iran is also believed to be preparing a formal complaint against him for the torture of Iranian prisoners captured during the 1980-1988 war.

Source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9860347%255E1702,00.html

[SwissGrenadier]

pfff who gives a **** about Claudia Roth, a green party member aka an eco stalinist as they are called by germany's conservatives hehe

i think saddam shouldn't be executed; the coalition should let him rott in some prison, occasionally torture him, etc

the world shouldn't let him get away that easily by killing him, he should suffer for the crimes he has commited!!

[scm77]

Death Penalty is barbaric,

Perfect for Saddam.

However I do agree that he should be locked up forever. It would be more humiliating that way.

[Macs.]

He should share a cell with Michael Jackson.

[admar2]

who gives a **** what Germany or France wants??

:cantbeli:

[usa320]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

are you bull****ting me?

Are you even old enough to know who he is or what he did?

This is a man who raped women in front of their children and children in front of their fathers. A man who cut the limbs off men's sons to get them to talk. He gassed thousands of innocent people- his own people. He threw people in shredding machines. he removed people's ears and tongues. He electrically shocked people's balls. He threw people off of towers and buried people alive. He decapitated people.

Nothing is too barbaric for this monster.

[Freibier]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

are you bull****ting me?

Are you even old enough to know who he is or what he did?

This is a man who raped women in front of their children and children in front of their fathers. A man who cut the limbs off men's sons to get them to talk. He gassed thousands of innocent people- his own people. He threw people in shredding machines. he removed people's ears and tongues. He electrically shocked people's balls. He threw people off of towers and buried people alive. He decapitated people.

Nothing is too barbaric for this monster.
I know very well what he has done and what was done in his name, son.
No reason to become barbarians ourselves.

[Kitsune]

Actually, it wasn't so much of a topic over here.

As a European, I am against death penalty, without exception. But if the Iraqis think different, and execute Saddam...I don't think I would loose a nights sleep over it.
Same goes by the way if admar2 trips and breaks his neck...

[He219]

The death penalty is not a decision we will be making for the Iraqis.
France and Germany missed a good chance to shut up!
:lol:

[Freibier]

The death penalty is not a decision we will be making for the Iraqis.
France and Germany missed a good chance to shut up!
:lol:
touché :P

Saddam really thinned out....

[admar2]

France and Germany missed a good chance to shut up!
:lol:

they do that alot. rofl

[Jehuty]

The death penalty is not a decision we will be making for the Iraqis.
France and Germany missed a good chance to shut up!
:lol:

You are selective it seems. :P
Blackrain himself posted links about UK and Italy.

[usa320]

the guys toast.

A recent poll said 84% of polled Iraqis want him dead... Take it as you will, its a poll, but i think it still speaks volumes.

This man must first face the justice he denied to millions... Then face the punishment he gave to millions.

[Ratamacue]

I say we put him in the zoo. Preferably a cage, not one of those natural-ish habitats they use now.

[budanski]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

So is abortion... but then again, i come from the old school of thought that once a dog viscously attacks someone, we put it to sleep.

[chauncy republicans]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

So is abortion... but then again, i come from the old school of thought that once a dog viscously attacks someone, we put it to sleep.
For once I have to agree with you...entirely.

[Deuterium]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

So is abortion... but then again, i come from the old school of thought that once a dog viscously attacks someone, we put it to sleep.

Ditto.

[Secret Squirrel]

the guys toast.

A recent poll said 84% of polled Iraqis want him dead... Take it as you will, its a poll, but i think it still speaks volumes.

This man must first face the justice he denied to millions... Then face the punishment he gave to millions.

you mean the same poll that said around 41% wanted him freed? ;)

[Pandy]

Lets send Michael Moore over there to watch Saddam Die... I smell another Doc...

[ZeroPositive]

Can we request a photo of Saddam buggering Micheal Moore?

TBH he should die that would be a light punishment for him, for all the things he did.
But if he dies maybe a lot of Iraqi's can get over him...

Or keep him in a Zoo Cell :)
I want to throw Peanuts at him.

[Zarathustra]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

Saddam wasn't barbaric of course... :roll:
death penalty for saddam because he worth it, that's all...

[SpazzMunky]

Would you prefer to live out the rest of your life in solitary confinement, or die? Personally I'd rather die. Anyway, the Iraqis wont put him in a cushy prison anyways.

[RS_Leo1A5]

IMHO killing Saddam would not be the ideal punishment:
His misery is over and his followers have a martyr.

But making this delusional psychopath (who still claims to be Iraq's president) rot away in prison, stripped of all his former privileges and dreams - that seems more of a punishment to me.

Death Penalty means it's over in an instant.
Life sentence in prison means he will suffer for years...

(And, as others said already, as a European I am against Death Penalty - no matter which crime.)

[ShadowNeo]

I am still wholeheartidly opposed to the death sentence, I don't think its applicable in any situation, but thats just my personal views, I see it as barbaric, and i'm glad we don't have it here. I believe in "humane punishment", in a way.

Having said that though, I think its best to let the Iraqis make their own decision.

[Fargin]

I want him trialed and punnished by an international court. But I don't see that happening in a near or distant future.

[ZeroPositive]

I am still wholeheartidly opposed to the death sentence, I don't think its applicable in any situation, but thats just my personal views, I see it as barbaric, and i'm glad we don't have it here. I believe in "humane punishment", in a way.

Having said that though, I think its best to let the Iraqis make their own decision.

When someone enters your house kills your parents and say ur sibbling...
when he or she takes the lives of your loved ones those persons deserve to die...

[Tengu]

who gives a f*** what Germany or France wants??

:cantbeli:Hmm yes, perhaps they didn't get it the last time :lol:

[oldsoak]

He has to be made to look a fool or there will always be those who will want to resurrect him. It has been suggested a mental asylum would be an appropriate place. Perhaps a little something in the water to make sure he qualifies.

[Roger Rabbit]

Perhaps a little something in the water to make sure he qualifies.


Cyanide?

[Shadow]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

Saddam wasn't barbaric of course... :roll:
death penalty for saddam because he worth it, that's all...

Wow and then you are as good as Saddam himself! :roll:

[Zarathustra]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

Saddam wasn't barbaric of course... :roll:
death penalty for saddam because he worth it, that's all...

Wow and then you are as good as Saddam himself! :roll:

:cantbeli:


Saddam had killed a few innocent during 30 years.
Is it criminal to kill a war criminal ?

[BlackRain]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

Saddam wasn't barbaric of course... :roll:
death penalty for saddam because he worth it, that's all...

Wow and then you are as good as Saddam himself! :roll:

:cantbeli:


Saddam had killed a few innocent during 30 years.
Is it criminal to kill a war criminal ?

Yes. Based on the ivory tower logic displayed here, perhaps we should have never had the Nuremberg Trials.

The Allies should have just let all the Nazis and war criminals return home without punishment.

We executed the war criminals of WWII. Did you forget?

Robert Ley and Hermann Goering both committed suicide during the trial. Wilhelm Frick, Hans Frank, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Walther Funk, Fritz Saukel, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, Alfred Jodl, Wilhelm Keitel, Arthur Seyss-Inquart, and Joachim von Ribbentrop were found guilty and executed on 16th October, 1946. Rudolf Hess, Erich Raeder, were sentenced to life imprisonment and Albert Speer to 25 years. Karl Doenitz , Walther Funk, Franz von Papen, and Constantin von Neurath were also found guilty and sentenced to long terms of imprisonment.

At other war crime trials Josef Kramer and Irma Grese were also executed.


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/cellblock.jpg
American soldiers stand guard in the main cellblock at Nuremberg prison.

[Freibier]

Death Penalty is barbaric, they should lock him up forever

Saddam wasn't barbaric of course... :roll:
death penalty for saddam because he worth it, that's all...

Wow and then you are as good as Saddam himself! :roll:

:cantbeli:


Saddam had killed a few innocent during 30 years.
Is it criminal to kill a war criminal ?

Yes. Based on the ivory tower logic displayed here, perhaps we should have never had the Nuremberg Trials.

The Allies should have just let all the Nazis and war criminals return home without punishment.

We executed the war criminals of WWII. Did you forget?

Robert Ley and Hermann Goering both committed suicide during the trial. Wilhelm Frick, Hans Frank, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Walther Funk, Fritz Saukel, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, Alfred Jodl, Wilhelm Keitel, Arthur Seyss-Inquart, and Joachim von Ribbentrop were found guilty and executed on 16th October, 1946. Rudolf Hess, Erich Raeder, were sentenced to life imprisonment and Albert Speer to 25 years. Karl Doenitz , Walther Funk, Franz von Papen, and Constantin von Neurath were also found guilty and sentenced to long terms of imprisonment.

At other war crime trials Josef Kramer and Irma Grese were also executed.


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/cellblock.jpg
American soldiers stand guard in the main cellblock at Nuremberg prison.
Yeah but that was 60 years ago and those Germans started a world war with 40 million+ dead, including industrialized murder of 6 million+ jews - that was a pretty unique situation ...
Saddams not in the same league, not by far. Compared to the civilian deaths in vietnam, caused by the US, he's nearly a boyscout.
And nobody said that Saddam should go unpunished - life long inprisonment is pretty different than letting him go unpunished.
Anyway,
it's up to the iraqi people how to deal with him.
I still think that Death Sentence is barbaric

[fantassin]

Talk about a biased approach...

This thread could also have been called "France, Germany the UK and Italy, countries that have all banned the death penalty ask for a fair trial of Saddam"

But I suppose for some it's better to flame France and Germany at every possible opportunity even if truth is the first victim of their bias.

[BlackRain]

Yeah but that was 60 years ago and those Germans started a world war with 40 million+ dead, including industrialized murder of 6 million+ jews - that was a pretty unique situation ...
Saddams not in the same league, not by far. Compared to the civilian deaths in vietnam, caused by the US, he's nearly a boyscout.
And nobody said that Saddam should go unpunished - life long inprisonment is pretty different than letting him go unpunished.
Anyway,
it's up to the iraqi people how to deal with him.
I still think that Death Sentence is barbaric


You sound like Stalin. He said, "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic."

Why is 300,000 dead Iraqi's worth less than any other murdered amount of human beings?

Is one human being's life worth more than anothers?

If not, the punishment should be the same.

The Iraqi's have decided to use the death penalty as a tool of punishment. Foreign governments should refrain from bullying Iraq with "moral outrage" for punishments they ordered for war criminals themselves.



In total, 5025 men and women were convicted of war crimes between 1945 and 1949 in the American, British and French zones, by Allied War Crimes Tribunals. Many of the staff from the concentration camps were arrested and tried for murder and acts of brutality against their prisoners. Over 500 of these were sentenced to death and the majority executed, at least 19 of these were female.

Some governments refused to free the yoke of tyranny from the Iraqi civilians lives.

Now that the Iraqi's have their own government, the very same governments wish to tell the Iraqi's what to do. Simply amazing.

Perhaps you forgot that the former premier of Vichy France, Pierre Laval, and Joseph Darnand were executed by firing squad for treason.

[Freibier]

The Iraqi's have decided to use the death penalty as a tool of punishment. Foreign governments should refrain from bullying Iraq with "moral outrage" for punishments they ordered for war criminals themselves.
I was just stating MY opinion but I can agree with that - it's up to the iraqis