Italy's Immigration Law

[Narvaresearch]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8132084.stm



Italy's parliament has given final approval to a law criminalising illegal immigration and allowing citizens' patrols to help the police keep order. The new measures have been strongly criticised by human rights groups and the Vatican.
Illegal immigration will be punishable by a hefty fine and those who knowingly house illegal migrants will face up to three years in prison.
The law also extends detention periods for illegal migrants to six months.
It was passed in the Senate (upper house) on Thursday, with 157 in favour and 124 against. The lower house passed it in May.
The unarmed citizens' patrols are among the most controversial measures.


A right-wing uniformed group called the Italian National Guard was set up last month, likened by some to Benito Mussolini's Fascists. It vowed to start patrolling the streets.
But Interior Minister Roberto Maroni said the group, which sports beige uniforms and black military-style hats, would not be allowed to mount street patrols.
Mr Maroni, a member of the anti-immigration Northern League, has steered the legislation through parliament.
The party is a key ally of Italy's right-wing Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, and made tougher measures against immigration a condition of its support for his re-election last year.
The new law makes illegal immigration punishable by a fine of 5,000 to 10,000 euros (£4,276 - £8,553).
It also requires parents registering a birth to present documents proving that they are legal residents.
Italy has just introduced a policy of returning boatloads of migrants to Libya before they can claim asylum.
The government says it faces an unmanageable flood of immigrants, many arriving on outlying islands which do not have the means to cope.
More than 36,000 migrants landed on the shores of Italy last year - an increase of about 75% on the year before.
Critics say the government is targeting especially immigrants and Roma (Gypsies).
The Vatican said the new law was "focusing on crime and leaving integration completely out of the picture".

A bit scary some of these pictures and themes.

[Mu-Meson]

final approval to a law criminalising illegal immigration

Wait, wat? Illegal immigration wasn't illegal before? Is it like the difference between a misdemeanor, and a felony?

[randir14]

Good for them.

[Fante da mar]

In reality what is happening now is that italy is finally drafting an immigration law, and intends to enforce it, along the lines of other western countries who are certainly not less democratric and pluralistic than hour, if not more.

As a final note, citizens watch groups taylord on fascist squads will not be approved by this government and if they try they will be dealt with.

[MJC9678]

Sounds like Italy is finally taking illegal immigration seriously. Damn shame Obama (AKA "Our Dear Leader") welcomes hordes of 3rd world slave labor for his power base to abuse and control.

[LuKaZz]

I love how much coverage those guys in uniforms are getting, they are just a bunch of overweight neofascists with an unhealthy obsession with the Third Reich, they only number in their dozens, have no funds and would be laughed at if seen on the streets.

[MJC9678]

I love how much coverage those guys in uniforms are getting, they are just a bunch of overweight neofascists with an unhealthy obsession with the Third Reich, they only number in their dozens, have no funds and would be laughed at if seen on the streets.

Exactly, but they are the example the left wants to use to show the masses what they are in for. It's like in the US when someone goes nuts with a semi-auto assault rifle and all the networks run specials about "militias" with "machines guns".

[Excalibur]

better later then never. good decision.

[Narvaresearch]

Glad to hear an Italian give testimony they are not a widespread thing.

Hope it stays that way. I knew illegal immigration to Italy was bad, but I had no idea they didn't have laws about it.


welcomes hordes of 3rd world slave labor for his power base to abuse and control.

The things that come from your mouth. :):roll:

[MJC9678]

The things that come from your mouth. :):roll:


truth hurts

[gazell]

I was always thinking this, when such topic was touched upon, someone more in the know shall tell, Italy is a special case with Eastern-Europian immigration, including or especially Roma. It is not about race, but about business, I definitely know, that some Hungarian Roma gangs have already got businesses running in Italy. They do not want competition, I would think.

[Narvaresearch]

truth hurts

You just keep believing that. I would try to help, but I'm afraid you're a bit too far gone.

[Narvaresearch]

Exactly, but they are the example the left wants to use to show the masses what they are in for. It's like in the US when someone goes nuts with a semi-auto assault rifle and all the networks run specials about "militias" with "machines guns".

And for the record this has nothing to do with the "left". It has to do with making money. The public feeds off of fear, not "The shootings today were a totally isolated incident. You have nothing to worry about..."

Money....money....money

[Elbs]

Italy is a sovereign nation and has every right to enforce its own immigration policies. Entering a country illegally is a crime, and should be treated as such. I see daily reports on TV of the hundreds of migrants that make landfall in Spain and Italy, there comes a point where it becomes a drain on the country's resources.

[Narvaresearch]

Italy is a sovereign nation and has every right to enforce its own immigration policies. Entering a country illegally is a crime, and should be treated as such. I see daily reports on TV of the hundreds of migrants that make landfall in Spain and Italy, there comes a point where it becomes a drain on the country's resources.

I agree. The French "jungle" near Calais holds something like 800 (I think) Afghani immigrants who try daily to cross illegally into England for work. Many are caught, MAYBE fined (if they have any money), and returned to France for another day's work.

I feel sorry for them. I would do the same thing they are if I was in the situation, but that doesn't make it right.

Something also needs to be said for the native born people who exploit the workers by hiring them illegally for horrible wages. :bash:

[Ordie]

While they scapegoat immigrants, the Mafia and the Camora rules the streets.

Go figure.......

Get rid of the Mafia and Camora, you get rid of human trafficking.

[ghostdog]

While they scapegoat immigrants, the Mafia and the Camora rules the streets.

Go figure.......

Get rid of the Mafia and Camora, you get rid of human trafficking.


The mafia and camorra rules only certain districts of certain cities ,as your gangs in Amerika .
Plz get your usual stereotypes out of this 3d .

[BorisA]

The poor and the weak sadly don't have such a great lobby in this world ...unlike our elites. The poor africans, who risk their lives on dangerous trips to come to Europe, and to work in the lowest paid service jobs, are easy to catch, while the real criminals, like Berlusconi, have nothing to fear.
Or how it is possible that this smurf can just change laws to avoid legal punishments or to benefit economically from these "reforms" etc.?

But its the problem of the Italians...if they want a 73 old premier who cheats his wife with 17 years old teenagers or prostitutes...or has dinner with the highest judges of Italy who are currently are investigating against him. Well, good job Bella Italia!

[ghostdog]

Dear Borisa if I could have your address i'll provide to send those million of immigrants to your home , you'll know how to refresh and give a job to all'em for sure .

We are tired ,we cannot entertain immigrants to the endless while the whole UE turn its face on the other side !!

And we are tired to constantly be under the world's lens .

Do you live in the heaven valley ?
Get a look in your own pocket I bet you'll find enough **** and problems .

[Ordie]

I find it ironic since many Italian immigrants were treated with contempt and indifference for generations in America, Argentina, Switzerland and everywhere else.

I'm glad my grandparents left that forsaken penninsula.

[ghostdog]

I find it ironic since many Italian immigrants were mistreated the same way a generation ago.

Ask to your uncle or maybe to your daddy :) those generations you're talking about don't live in Italy anymore .
Together many other europeans they made what today you call United States of America .
They are Yankee as you today ,never came back .

Forsaken ????
Dude you don't even know what you are talking about !!

[Ordie]

Ask to your uncle or maybe to your daddy :) those Italians don't live in Italy anymore .
Together many other europeans they made what today you call United States of America .
They are Yankee as you today .

Perhaps Italy should learn from us.

I just find it disturbing that Italians have shifted its regionalism to racism towards outsiders. Yet Italy is the HQ of the Catholic Church where its growing numbers are in Africa.

Note: without without Argentine players, Italy would have never won the World Cup.

[Ordie]

Forsaken ????
Dude you don't even know what you are talking about !!

My family was from the South.

I went to visit Naples, I could see why the left.

I was later mugged in Rome.

[ghostdog]

Note: without without Argentine players, Italy would have never won the World Cup.

Eh eh so without African players the France would never have had a national team p-) .

Anyway Vatican City is not Italy and we are not racist .
Simply there is no place to put all those masses of immigrants coming from east europe ,china,africa,middle east and more .



Perhaps Italy should learn from us.

Of course ,so we should declare war to the Africa invading and starting to export Mc Donalds and Democracy :roll:

Oh maybe you talk about "Hell is" Island and how you treated the immigrants arrived from Europe .

[ghostdog]

My family was from the South.

I went to visit Naples, I could see why the left.

I was later mugged in Rome.

I went to visit America , in Queens a douche stolen me the wallet and the phone .
In Bronx i saw many poor ppl :-( .....

..So is that Amerika ?



I think u should live and travel at least a period in a place before talking about .
2 weeks aren't enough .
And Naples doesn't represent the whole Italy

[Ordie]

Anyway Vatican City is not Italy and we are not racist .
Simply there is no place to put all those masses of immigrants coming from east europe ,china,africa,middle east and more .

If St. Augustine of Hippo, the most influential theologian of Christianity, was African, don't be surprised if we see a Pope from Africa in our life time.

Italy has plenty of room.
How many Venetians actually live in Venice?
How many towns are close to dying because there are no children?

I guess Italy is doing well since immigrants are attracted to prosperity.

[Narvaresearch]

How many towns are close to dying because there are no children?

All of native Europe (or most) seems to be in decline in this regard. :|

[Ordie]

I think u should live and travel at least a period in a place before talking about .
2 weeks aren't enough .
And Naples doesn't represent the whole Italy

Florence= Too many Americans.
Bolongna= Good food but too many patonizing Communist.
Naples= Armpit
Venice= Full of stolen artifacts including thier patron saint.
Rome= Full of thieves
Parlermo= Full of Mafiosi (I was asked to leave a restaurant at the request of a patron)
Assisi= Full of good people. Mostly international friars and nuns.

[zema_06]

If St. Augustine of Hippo, the most influential theologian of Christianity, was African, don't be surprised if we see a Pope from Africa in our life time.

Italy has plenty of room.
How many Venetians actually live in Venice?
How many towns are close to dying because there are no children?

I guess Italy is doing well since immigrants are attracted to prosperity.

italy has a real immigration problem, but it seems that in other countries the only thing know about italy are the stereotypes about mafia pizza...

the past lef governments granted asylum to nearly everyone, at expense of our population. they recieve immediately an appartment, when they loose their jobs they recieve much more money and for a longer time than italians. now with the new regulation if an immigrant looses his job and remains without job for more than six moinths he'll be expelled.

we cannot harbour anyone, the EU is talking and talking, but as usual they do nothing. so italy is forced to find it's way, even if for outsiders it could seems a little bit racist.

i don't understand why people form other countries continues to criticise italy for this, you don't live here, so please don't instruct us how to manage our country. i must admit that it's the first really good law against illegal immigration that has been written in this country, as the past laws were more or less empty and gave the immigrants many ways to remain.

[ghostdog]

If St. Augustine of Hippo, the most influential theologian of Christianity, was African, don't be surprised if we see a Pope from Africa in our life time.

Black or white nothing change to me ,i'm not racist ,i'm atheist as so many other ppl in Italy .
We have the 3rd biggest Islamic community ,the 2nd biggest Chinese community and many other communities form the east europe and the middle east are growing this last ten .
I personally work with 2 Italians with African origins and 1 Italian with Chinese origins ,as you can see the 1st and 2nd generations are growing as Italian Citizens .
They are well integrated ,we have less problems about racism in Europe than in Usa .


It's not because of racism or fascism we simply don't know how to help this mass of ppl coming in Italy every days with every means from every ways !!!!
If they don't find a job become part of gangs ,we are full of this **** .

This law pack is the solution .

[zema_06]

Florence= Too many Americans.
Bolongna= Good food but too many patonizing Communist.
Naples= Armpit
Venice= Full of stolen artifacts including thier patron saint.
Rome= Full of thieves
Parlermo= Full of Mafiosi (I was asked to leave a restaurant at the request of a patron)
Assisi= Full of good people. Mostly international friars and nuns.

probalby in palermo you were invited to leave not because of a patron but because of respect. it's simply, the southern italian society is based on respect, not only mafia, but respect. if there was someone in the restaurant which deserves a lot respect (many are not mafiosis) and he don't likes tourists he can simply ask them to leave as the owner should show him respect. it's simply the society.

Florence=Too many loud American tourists
Bologna=Good food but too many patonizing Communist, but it's a free country...
Naples=You must only know how to take it
Venice=Nice city with far too many americans around
Rome=nice city full of history
Palermo=nice city i've heard

[Ordie]

i don't understand why people form other countries continues to criticise italy for this, you don't live here, so please don't instruct us how to manage our country. i must admit that it's the first really good law against illegal immigration that has been written in this country, as the past laws were more or less empty and gave the immigrants many ways to remain.

Because we expect better from a country that is the epicenter of western Christianity, arts, culture and history.

[Ordie]

probalby in palermo you were invited to leave not because of a patron but because of respect. it's simply, the southern italian society is based on respect, not only mafia, but respect. if there was someone in the restaurant which deserves a lot respect (many are not mafiosis) and he don't likes tourists he can simply ask them to leave as the owner should show him respect. it's simply the society.

I was in Parlermo summer 1992. Shortly after Judge Falcone was killed.
Everyone didn't trust an outsider.

[tattooman]

Because we expect better from a country that is the epicenter of western Christianity, arts, culture and history.

rofl
this makes me laugh. In name of the false tolerance the same culture and freedom are threatened. The massive illegal immigration exceeded in Italy and in Spain, and these laws have the general support of the population. The integration of this mass of inmigrants aren´t taking place, delinquency are a real problem, ghettos are real, clash of cultures is real and visible in numerous places.

Without safety there is no freedom.

[ghostdog]

You are quite right man

AMEN .

[Narvaresearch]

They need to assimilate better, no doubt about it.

Culture clashes are real too, but I wouldn't lay all the blame on immigrants. Natives have plenty a share in this.

[Ordie]

The bottom line is that scapegoating immigrants is easy.

Especially in a country where its elected representatives practice the politics of denial and favortism.

Where the head of state chases women who could be his grandchild.

Where Italy is literally the garbage dump of Europe thanks to the Camora.

Italy has more excuses than goals.

In the past they blamed the Southerners.

This time the excuse are immigrants.

[Ordie]

rofl
this makes me laugh. In name of the false tolerance the same culture and freedom are threatened. The massive illegal immigration exceeded in Italy and in Spain, and these laws have the general support of the population. The integration of this mass of inmigrants aren´t taking place, delinquency are a real problem, ghettos are real, clash of cultures is real and visible in numerous places.

Without safety there is no freedom.

Hey Gallego!!

I got dirt on Spain too.

Thats for another time and thread.

[tattooman]

The bottom line is that scapegoating immigrants is easy.

Especially in a country where its elected representatives practice the politics of denial and favortism.

Where the head of state chases women who could be his grandchild.

Where Italy is literally the garbage dump of Europe thanks to the Camora.

Italy has more excuses than goals.

In the past they blamed the Southerners.

This time the excuse are immigrants.

But is not only a italian problem, its European problem, Italy is the first country to make a strong law.

Im waiting your posts yankee p-)

[ghostdog]

The bottom line is that scapegoating immigrants is easy.

Eh eh the Amerika's history !!





Where Italy is literally the garbage dump of Europe thanks to the Camora.

Italy has more excuses than goals.

In the past they blamed the Southerners.

This time the excuse are immigrants.


Again ,the camoRRa doesn't rules the whole Italy ,and i want to remember to you that this "garbage dump" is one of the best place to live ,the USA is flying so low ( just an example HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_life_index) ) .

I can't understand your point ,if i remember history you WRONG everything about the immigration laws in your past blaming the European immigrants and Blacks for all your problems all the time !!


Now you come here pretending to teach your cheapest ethic to the whole world !!

[MJC9678]

probalby in palermo you were invited to leave not because of a patron but because of respect. it's simply, the southern italian society is based on respect, not only mafia, but respect. if there was someone in the restaurant which deserves a lot respect (many are not mafiosis) and he don't likes tourists he can simply ask them to leave as the owner should show him respect. it's simply the society.

Florence=Too many loud American tourists
Bologna=Good food but too many patonizing Communist, but it's a free country...
Naples=You must only know how to take it
Venice=Nice city with far too many americans around
Rome=nice city full of history
Palermo=nice city i've heard

Spent 3 weeks driving around northern Italy with my wife and my weak Italian skills. I found the people to be extremely nice and helpful both in and out of the major cities. I had no problems in Rome. My spider sense did not go off once, unlike my daily commute in and out of NYC....

[Ragno]

the past lef governments granted asylum to nearly everyone, at expense of our population.


quite fair...




they recieve immediately an appartment, when they loose their jobs they recieve much more money and for a longer time than italians.


BullS*** king size



now with the new regulation if an immigrant looses his job and remains without job for more than six moinths he'll be expelled.


should be "unless he can (legally) afford his presence on italian territory. the way the law is made is "unless we do not need anymore". Season jobs anyone? university doctorate??

i see everyday during my job workers from all around the world, many of them doing jobs that italians refuse to do (also because the ITALIAN chief pays s*itty wage uh!) also doing job that italians are not enough "qualified" to do. There are many companies with high rate of foreign workers and they did made these companies make profit during the past periods so the company is in bad waters and you kick them out?
Many of the persons i work with are foreigners and i enjoy working with them.

We just have to get rid of the italians making business with immigration and we will stop the problem.

Far from being a leftist, i love to see all people supporting this ridiculous government full of pimps and slimy illiterate granpas talking about "Nation" and Italy for the italians, going to the "Family day" while they have 3 wrecked marriages, flirt with underage girls, snort cocaine..not talking about welcoming a douchebag like Ghaddafi and give him all honours and deepest excuses too (together with biggest money RANSOM italy remembers, promises of building highways in the desert..mafia on the watchtower for the business!) and still being loved by their voters..amazing. Before watching who is coming we should see who we have at our 6.

i want 20 mins of my life back.

[Ordie]

But is not only a italian problem, its European problem, Italy is the first country to make a strong law.

Im waiting your posts yankee p-)

I have yet to meet an Italian that has not broken the law.

If the Italians can't follow the rules, what makes you think immigrants will do the same.

[zema_06]

BullS*** king size

i think you never lived in the bolzano province, immigrnats get immediately an appartemnt from the municipalities (which rent them).

i know a number of imigrants which simply says i work for the minimum time required to get the money afterwards, on the other hand the italians get not as much money for a shorter period of time...



should be "unless he can (legally) afford his presence on italian territory. the way the law is made is "unless we do not need anymore". Season jobs anyone? university doctorate?? i see everyday during my job workers from all around the world, many of them doing jobs that italians refuse to do (also because the ITALIAN chief pays s*itty wage uh!) also doing job that italians are not enough "qualified" to do. There are many companies with high rate of foreign workers and they did made these companies make profit during the past periods so the company is in bad waters and you kick them out? Many of the persons i work with are foreigners and i enjoy working with them. We just have to get rid of the italians making business with immigration and we will stop the problem.

in italy the wages are low simply because the whole system is based on an old view of the work. everyone wants a contract for life, no one wants time based contracts and on the other hand the worker unions do everything to hamper a real modernisation of the work.

it's not that simply to kick of immigrants as it was 10 years ago. the first thing they learn in italy is their rights (and forget the part about their obbligations). if you kick them out you have to pay for it, no more no less than prescirbed by the law.



Far from being a leftist, i love to see all people supporting this ridiculous government full of pimps and slimy illiterate granpas talking about "Nation" and Italy for the italians, going to the "Family day" while they have 3 wrecked marriages, flirt with underage girls, snort cocaine..not talking about welcoming a douchebag like Ghaddafi and give him all honours and deepest excuses too (together with biggest money RANSOM italy remembers, promises of building highways in the desert..mafia on the watchtower for the business!) and still being loved by their voters..amazing. Before watching who is coming we should see who we have at our 6. i want 20 mins of my life back.

this is up to politics. the far right government is simply popular not because of what their are doing, but because they are doing something. the tradition of all italian governments till 1994 (first belusconi term) was to mantain the status quo, which means changing absolutely nothing in this country. people supports the government because it's gives a sense of security when compared to the past and they are working. they are always in tv explaining what they are doing.

the agreement with lybia is probably not that understandable, but it gives us accesso to their oil and gas to lower prices, which is important. you can call it ransom or in many other ways but every agreement has it's downside and 5 billion are nothing when read what the income (to pay in about 20-25 years) and expense of the state.

[zema_06]

I have yet to meet an Italian that has not broken the law. If the Italians can't follow the rules, what makes you think immigrants will do the same.

this is BS, again and again the only thing bring foward are these stereotypes...you are implying that every italian is a criminal...

the majority of the population follows the rules...only a minority breaks the rules.

[Ragno]

I have yet to meet an Italian that has not broken the law.

If the Italians can't follow the rules, what makes you think immigrants will do the same.

nice to meet you.

[ghostdog]

I have yet to meet an Italian that has not broken the law.

If the Italians can't follow the rules, what makes you think immigrants will do the same.
this is the example of why never to follow an idiot, he brings you to his level and beats with years of experience .




I think you come from texas or minnesota ,it's hard to make you understand :bash:

You are the usual yankee full of stereotypes who spits his sentences thinking to be over everything !!


YOU shot
YOU hung the immigrants and accused them of your guilts
YOU publicly humiliated them
tell me , why do all you yankee have such a short memory ?

YOU are the first to must shut the hell up !!!

[Ragno]

i think you never lived in the bolzano province, immigrnats get immediately an appartemnt from the municipalities (which rent them).

you vote your municipalities....





they are always in tv explaining what they are doing.


mmm guess why...anyhow i do not want to start a flame about that...going on tv....



the agreement with lybia is probably not that understandable, but it gives us accesso to their oil and gas to lower prices, which is important. you can call it ransom or in many other ways but every agreement has it's downside and 5 billion are nothing when read what the income (to pay in about 20-25 years) and expense of the state.

let's wait and see...since there is Mr Berlusconi i had no improvement in my life...same for my country..

[ohdannyboy]

I have yet to meet an Italian that has not broken the law.

If the Italians can't follow the rules, what makes you think immigrants will do the same.

I rarely write on this board, but I lurk quite a lot. I have always appreciated your posts, even when I didn't agree with your point of view, but this is one of the most retarded things I've ever read. I hope you were being sarcastic.

[zema_06]

you vote your municipalities....

i've not voted for them


let's wait and see...since there is Mr Berlusconi i had no improvement in my life...same for my country..

at least it's not getting worse as during the former government...

[corra]

As in other past threads also here the italian sterotypes rules:the mafia who rules the country,pizza,spaghetti and so on....the funny thing is that probably those people who talk abaut this dumb ass stereotypes know nothing abaut our immigration problem..in the city where i live Verona there are some places in wich u cannot go alone for the terror of being mugged by lot's of immigrant who have no job..i'm not racist but i think that when thousands of immigrant arrive every day is impossible to make nothing.O..yes another thing quite funny ..in the vatican that in this moment is criticing the italian immigration law,the immigrant CANNOT enter...

[Ordie]

I rarely write on this board, but I lurk quite a lot. I have always appreciated your posts, even when I didn't agree with your point of view, but this is one of the most retarded things I've ever read. I hope you were being sarcastic.

Italians are natural born anarchist, hedonists by nature, Catholics by tradition, wannabe communist with fascist tendencies but always stay at home with momma.

- with sacasism

[corra]

and the mafia rules a great sh**since is very ridimensionated from for example the years '90.actually it rules quite nothing apart some districts

[zema_06]

Italians are natural born anarchist hedonists.p-)

anarchists? if italians were anarchists many would already have solved the immigration problem on their own...

tourists don't understand italy nor italians. this is our country, we hate it and love it, but it's our country...

it's not possible that immigrants come to a country, benefit their rights and not their obbligations toward the country...

[Ordie]

and the mafia rules a great sh**since is very ridimensionated from for example the years '90.actually it rules quite nothing apart some districts

Yet who profits from immigrant trafficiking and employment?

[zema_06]

Yet who profits from immigrant trafficiking and employment?

most illegal imimgrants are unemployed only a small part of them is working, mostly in illegal workshop, as it happend in the chinese community here in italy...

the criminal organisations are stranger than 20 years ago, but they are operating with a very low profile. erverony speaks about mafia, but all are more or less ruled by the n'drangheta, which has the control over every criminal organisation and rules groups around the world.

foreigners often make the mistake to consider these groups as one entity that operates as such. instead they are variuos groups with divided areas and activites based on respect. everything is based on respect...

[ghostdog]

I can't understand why you're still trying to explain something to this yankee .
He possesses a ku klux klan's custom in his closet for sure ,he's not Italian has a lot of confusion about Italy in his brain and comes here offending us .

Who gives him the right to talk ?

[zema_06]

I can't understand why you're still trying to explain something to this yankee .
He possesses a ku klux klan's custom in his closet for sure ,he's not Italian and comes here offending us .

you're right...

[Ordie]

I can't understand why you're still trying to explain something to this yankee .
He possesses a ku klux klan's custom in his closet for sure ,he's not Italian has a lot of confusion about Italy in his brain and comes here offending us .

Who gives him the right to talk ?

My grandparents are from Basilicata immigrated to Argentina.
My dad is Argentine immigrated to California along with my Mexican mother.
My cousins in Argentina further immigrated to Australia.
My girlfriend immigrated from China as an adoptee.
I'm in the process of getting Italian passport so that my future hiers can play on the Italian baseball team.

[Narvaresearch]

I think you come from texas or minnesota ,it's hard to make you understand :bash:


You are the usual yankee full of stereotypes who spits his sentences thinking to be over everything !!


tell me , why do all you yankee have such a short memory ?


He possesses a ku klux klan's custom in his closet for sure

You know, for someone who is ranting about people making stereotypes you sure like to make a fool out of yourself. :roll:

[ghostdog]

You know, for someone who is ranting about people making stereotypes you sure like to make a fool out of yourself. :roll:

I was just joking about his stereotypes "stereotyping" him in the same way sorry if it touches your sensibility .Now you know how we feel .

[IMTT]

Wow three years in Prison, I'm in! Here in Calfornia we have found that illegal aliens AKA un-documented immigrant friends have no impact on the state budget what so ever. They don't use any medical services, they don't commit crimes, they don't draw federal and state assistance and it is perfect. Just ask our elected officials. When I retire I want to be a Italian illegal immigrant what a life in an Italian jail. I think we should deport all our Lawers to Italy or set up concentration camps for them all.

[Narvaresearch]

I was just joking about his stereotypes "stereotyping" him in the same way sorry if it touches your sensibility .Now you know how we feel .

Stereotypes should never describe an entire society, race, or group, but they aren't formed from thin air.

I knew how you felt before, I was simply stating how silly some of your rants were. Didn't realize it was a joke.

[ohdannyboy]

Italians are natural born anarchist, hedonists by nature, Catholics by tradition, wannabe communist with fascist tendencies but always stay at home with momma.



LOL!! I'm nothing like that, and neither are most Italians I know, although, if the economy goes on like this, I'll have to be back home with momma soon.:-(

Anyhow, Italy is trying to have an immigration law, similar to the one that most of Western Countries already have. What's all the fuss about? Illegals get kicked out from most of European Countries as far as I know, and all the people who illegally cross the US southern border don't get a welcome kiss, do they? Why does rejecting illegals make Italians racist/fascist?

[Stormz_STA]

...or set up concentration camps for them all.

How are you, Adolf.

[Ordie]

Why does rejecting illegals make Italians racist/fascist?

Please note the photo of this Italian Fascist.




Italy adopts law to curb migrants


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46005000/jpg/_46005565_salutingap226b.jpg Critics accuse the new National Guard of echoing Mussolini's Fascists

Italy's parliament has given final approval to a law criminalising illegal immigration and allowing citizens' patrols to help the police keep order. The new measures have been strongly criticised by human rights groups and the Vatican.
Illegal immigration will be punishable by a hefty fine and those who knowingly house illegal migrants will face up to three years in prison.
The law also extends detention periods for illegal migrants to six months.
It was passed in the Senate (upper house) on Thursday, with 157 in favour and 124 against. The lower house passed it in May.
Citizens' patrols
The unarmed citizens' patrols are among the most controversial measures.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifA right-wing uniformed group called the Italian National Guard was set up last month, likened by some to Benito Mussolini's Fascists. It vowed to start patrolling the streets.
But Interior Minister Roberto Maroni said the group, which sports beige uniforms and black military-style hats, would not be allowed to mount street patrols.
Mr Maroni, a member of the anti-immigration Northern League, has steered the legislation through parliament.
The party is a key ally of Italy's right-wing Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, and made tougher measures against immigration a condition of its support for his re-election last year.
The new law makes illegal immigration punishable by a fine of 5,000 to 10,000 euros (£4,276 - £8,553).
It also requires parents registering a birth to present documents proving that they are legal residents.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46005000/jpg/_46005566_italmpsap226b.jpg Opposition senators held signs calling the government "the real clandestines"

Italy has just introduced a policy of returning boatloads of migrants to Libya before they can claim asylum.
The government says it faces an unmanageable flood of immigrants, many arriving on outlying islands which do not have the means to cope.
More than 36,000 migrants landed on the shores of Italy last year - an increase of about 75% on the year before.
Critics say the government is targeting especially immigrants and Roma (Gypsies).
The Vatican said the new law was "focusing on crime and leaving integration completely out of the picture".


Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8132084.stm

[ohdannyboy]

Please note the photo of this Italian Fascist.


This guy is a moron. So what?! Don't you have this kind of retards in the US? Do you want me to post a picture of a kkk rally?

[Ordie]

This guy is a moron. So what?! Don't you have this kind of retards in the US? Do you want me to post a picture of a kkk rally?

Sure go ahead, we have nothing to hide.

[Elbs]

I'm sure we can all agree on one thing: Mario Balotelli's hair is a disgrace to the world, not just Italy.

http://www.submiturpics.com/images/o9xa3gmlow796o1jmx8y.jpg

[ohdannyboy]

Sure go ahead, we have nothing to hide.


Neither do we. We just have an immigration law and some retarded fascist wannabe. Just like you and many others.

[ohdannyboy]

I'm sure we can all agree on one thing: Mario Balotelli's hair is a disgrace to the world, not just Italy.


Meh! Many Italian soccer player are a disgrace IMO. I barely can stand soccer. I know I'm gonna get bashed by some other Italian now :)

[Ordie]

Neither do we. We just have an immigration law and some retarded fascist wannabe. Just like you and many others.

Actually I'm a registered Democrat.

Criminalization of immigration is hardly the solution. Italy like the United States needs to reform its policies that connects immigration with economic, social and educational needs of the country.

In times of political crisis, immigrants are easy scapegoats. Simply because they offer no political benefit to the politicians.

Bottom line, Berlusconi is in trouble. His perverted ways with a girl old enough to be his grand daughter, failing economy, and anti-military protest in the upcoming G-8 summit is a challenge to his crediblity.

Given the Pope's personal history with Nazi Germany, he is obligated to protect those who are unjustly targeted in immigration sweeps. The Pope in reaction, may open churches and offer sanctuary to immigrants and challenge Italian jusristiction.

Keep in mind this is a Pope who's flock is becoming more African and Asian everyday. He will react and challenge Berlusconi on moral grounds.

[Ordie]

Meh! Many Italian soccer player are a disgrace IMO. I barely can stand soccer. I know I'm gonna get bashed by some other Italian now :)

They need more Argentine players.

[ohdannyboy]

Actually I'm a registered Democrat.



I didn't mean you personally. I meant your Country. We have those kind of people here just like you do in the US. I apologize if I didn't make myself clear.

As for the rest, I'll reply later.

[LaoSexMachine]

Actually I'm a registered Democrat.

Criminalization of immigration is hardly the solution.


In America it's illegal but the pro illegal camp cries and bitch when it's enforce.

[Ordie]

In America it's illegal but the pro illegal camp cries and bitch when it's enforce.

Unfortunately the enforcement is on the backs of immigrants and not the employers.

[Narvaresearch]

Unfortunately the enforcement is on the backs of immigrants and not the employers.

Oh so true. :cantbeli:

[zema_06]

Actually I'm a registered Democrat.

good for you...



Criminalization of immigration is hardly the solution. Italy like the United States needs to reform its policies that connects immigration with economic, social and educational needs of the country. In times of political crisis, immigrants are easy scapegoats. Simply because they offer no political benefit to the politicians.

but it is a solution, as nobosy is helping us, italy is forced to find a solution...



Bottom line, Berlusconi is in trouble. His perverted ways with a girl old enough to be his grand daughter, failing economy, and anti-military protest in the upcoming G-8 summit is a challenge to his crediblity.

nothing of this has been prooved, so if it's prooved we can talk about but thil then please...anti-military protest are a tradition in this country, since 1946 funded and aided by the leftish parties.



Given the Pope's personal history with Nazi Germany, he is obligated to protect those who are unjustly targeted in immigration sweeps. The Pope in reaction, may open churches and offer sanctuary to immigrants and challenge Italian jusristiction. Keep in mind this is a Pope who's flock is becoming more African and Asian everyday. He will react and challenge Berlusconi on moral grounds.

i often hear: the vatican is attacking italy on this matter, it should simply harbour all of them inside his wall...

and churches on italian territory are not safe ground for immigrants...

[Kravensas]

Italian government, unable to find a way to get out of the crisis, start some time ago to instigate italian lower and middle class against immigrant.
At the beginnings, they said that immigrant "stole our works".
Bullsh*t. But works.
Because the immigrants do the works that we do not make more. Like attends to the old or collect vegetables in the middle Italy, 16 hour of work per day for a couple of euro.
Now, they build up various structures called "C.I.E." (Identification and Expulsion Center). Where a stranger is not "prisoner", but he is not free. Poor food, poor water (in some center non-drinkable water is free, but the drinkable is not), poor medical care.
But you can keep your cellphone, so if someone outside charge credit in, you can comunicate. If "someone" don't stole or broke it.
In this kind of structure, we have major episode of police brutality, suicide tentative and illegal somministration of barbiturates.
The Red Cross, who have the contracts to cure the host, often don't.

We have so hurry to sent back in their fuc*ing country (even if they came from a war, like Darfur) that we increased the permanence time up to six months.
The government don't want to punish who enter in our country without permission. Our prison are very over populated and law of this kind will bring up the number in very short time.
The objective is to maintain the pressure high on immigrants.
An immigrants who know that he can be imprisoned, withhold for unlimited time, will do everything he asked to do. No need to explain, right?

[ghostdog]

Dude reading your words u sound a bit leftist ,you always complain the government but never give a solution !



At the beginnings, they said that immigrant "stole our works".
Bullsh*t. But works.
Because the immigrants do the works that we do not make more. Like attends to the old or collect vegetables in the middle Italy, 16 hour of work per day for a couple of euro.

Bull****s !!!
They don't steal our works but we are losing all the rights conquered by our fathers during the 60's and 70's syndical struggles .
" shut up and do your job or I'll replace you with a worker that does the double for halves pay ! "




Now, they build up various structures called "C.I.E." (Identification and Expulsion Center). Where a stranger is not "prisoner", but he is not free. Poor food, poor water (in some center non-drinkable water is free, but the drinkable is not), poor medical care.


All paid whit our taxes and those stuffs are better than nothing or a bullet in the back .

Italy is not America we don't have where to employ all those hordes coming from everywhere .
And more they are not interested to become Italians ,they don't accept our culture ,rather they despise and joke it !!
They always say to be more smart and cute than us it's ridiculous .
They are here just for plucking the hen and send the money to home .

So don't be so "flower's power" and accept the dirt real world with its real problems !!


I want to remember to Ordie the flocks of volunteers so " Chuck Norris wannabe " ready to stop with their own rifle the escape of the thousand of Mexicans which pass the America's borders every day looking for a best life .

[MJC9678]

This guy is a moron. So what?! Don't you have this kind of retards in the US? Do you want me to post a picture of a kkk rally?

Oh we've got well over 10 million drooling retards here in the good old US of A. From that number you can build upwards to about 55 million people of varying degree's of mental impairment. It ranges from total drooling retard to just delusional self hating liberal affluent white folks.

[Kravensas]

Dude reading your words u sound a bit leftist ,you always complain the government but never give a solution !


I sound what I want.
The solutions is a politics system with no agreement with criminal organisation, an economical system with a plan for the crisis and a country where the people watch less TV.


Bull****s !!!
They don't steal our works but we are losing all the rights conquered by our fathers during the 60's and 70's syndical struggles .
" shut up and do your job or I'll replace you with a worker that does the double for halves pay ! "

Yes. Because we lose the capacity to be unite.
Because be unite is socialism, right?
And socialism is bad, right?
So, take the pain up your ass and be in competition with immigrants for a sh*tty work.
The syndical struggles of the 60's and 70's are leftiest. Sorry.


All paid whit our taxes and those stuffs are better than nothing or a bullet in the back .
Italy is not America we don't have where to employ all those hordes coming from everywhere .
And more they are not interested to become Italians ,they don't accept our culture ,rather they despise and joke it !!
They always say to be more smart and cute than us it's ridiculous .
They are here just for plucking the hen and send the money to home .
So don't be so "flower's power" and accept the dirt real world with its real problems !!


A bullet in the back? Are we taliban or similar stuff?
Italy it is always been a mix of culture, since the time of the Roman, and no Camicie Verdi can change it.
The ordes come to watch for a better life, because they think that we lives better. Watch our commercial, we have "panettone" for the dog!!
If a dog eat "panettone", even a human can eat, right?
Then, immigrants are necessary for the traffic of the criminal organisation, and the politics take a part of the income. So, do the math.

[Ordie]

Fact of the matter is that immigrants would not be in Italy without the help of Italians. The arrival, employment and housing have been organized by Italians. When times were good, no body complained and everyone profited from cheap immigrant labor. I highly doubt any Italians will be prosecuted.

Then there is the issue of return. Who will pay to send an immigrant back to Ghana, Syria, Bangladesh or China? Are the home countries willing to take them back? If the immigrants are a prosecuted minority at home, will they face an uncertian fate? Then there is the question of profiling, are Africans disproportionally targeted vs other immigrants from Russia?

Berlusconi and company likes simple solutions to complex problems when the going gets tough. Immigration issue is not simple.

[Kravensas]

Fact of the matter is that immigrants would not be in Italy without the help of Italians. The arrival, employment and housing have been organized by Italians. When times were good, no body complained and everyone profited from cheap immigrant labor. I highly doubt any Italians will be prosecuted.
Then there is the issue of return. Who will pay to send an immigrant back to Ghana, Syria, Bangladesh or China? Are the home countries willing to take them back? If the immigrants are a prosecuted minority at home, will they face an uncertian fate? Then there is the question of profiling, are Africans disproportionally targeted vs other immigrants from Russia?
Berlusconi and company likes simple solutions to complex problems when the going gets tough. Immigration issue is not simple.

You got the point.

Simple solutions for major problem.
And, is not possible to arrest all the immigrant.
Because our prison system is near to collapse.
Are they programming something we don't imagine?
Our history is full of "programmed catastrophes"...

[Narvaresearch]

Oh we've got well over 10 million drooling retards here in the good old US of A. From that number you can build upwards to about 55 million people of varying degree's of mental impairment. It ranges from total drooling retard to just delusional self hating liberal affluent white folks.

LOL - if they don't have the same point of view they are retards. Classic.

Man I hate these far right and far left guys. Some of them are real nutjobs...rofl


Given the Pope's personal history with Nazi Germany, he is obligated to protect those who are unjustly targeted in immigration sweeps.

The pope doesn't really have a personal history with Nazi Germany. He was forced, like all other kids, to be in the Hitlerjugend. Most of the time spent in the HJ was like the boyscouts with some added indoctrination many of the kids didn't care much about.

At least I wouldn't consider that a "personal history with Nazi Germany".

[ghostdog]

So, take the pain up your ass and be in competition with immigrants for a sh*tty work.

They must be ITALIAN citizens and to swear obedience to the ITALIAN flag first to be in competition with me and my job ,so I don't see any risk , they want our money not the citizenship .


Italy it is always been a mix of culture, since the time of the Roman, and no Camicie Verdi can change it.

WRONG !!
During the Roman Empire they had the Roman citizenship and were free to move into the empire ,as today a guy from NY can move to LA .
You need to get a look to the history book again .



A bullet in the back? Are we taliban or similar stuff?
The ordes come to watch for a better life, because they think that we lives better. Watch our commercial, we have "panettone" for the dog!!
If a dog eat "panettone", even a human can eat, right?
Then, immigrants are necessary for the traffic of the criminal organisation, and the politics take a part of the income. So, do the math.

As I already said, give me your address and we'll send them all to your house .
Wake up San Franceso d'Assisi we must think about our own citizens's problems !!
We are not a sort of giant humanitarian organization !!!
Where's europe !?!?!
Where's the place to put all that ppl !?!?!
Sorry to brake your romantic dreams but this law is the only solution !!



Fact of the matter is that immigrants would not be in Italy without the help of Italians. The arrival, employment and housing have been organized by Italians. When times were good, no body complained and everyone profited from cheap immigrant labor. I highly doubt any Italians will be prosecuted.

Then there is the issue of return. Who will pay to send an immigrant back to Ghana, Syria, Bangladesh or China? Are the home countries willing to take them back? If the immigrants are a prosecuted minority at home, will they face an uncertian fate? Then there is the question of profiling, are Africans disproportionally targeted vs other immigrants from Russia?

Berlusconi and company likes simple solutions to complex problems when the going gets tough. Immigration issue is not simple.


Oh c'mon so the Mexicans come in amerika with the help of Chuck Norris !!!
Mhhh u'r still speaking ,your ppl shot to the immigrants on the borders you are pointless here !!!
Maybe i must repeat you in japanese to make you understand !!
Do you talk just to push the key ?
Face your **** !!

Anyway the prostitution and drugs traffic from the east is controlled by their own criminal organizations .

[ohdannyboy]

Fact of the matter is that immigrants would not be in Italy without the help of Italians. The arrival, employment and housing have been organized by Italians. When times were good, no body complained and everyone profited from cheap immigrant labor. I highly doubt any Italians will be prosecuted.

True. Apparently this law will punish those who make money renting a place to illegals. 3 years in jail if I remember correctly. I hope it will be enforced properly.



Then there is the issue of return. Who will pay to send an immigrant back to Ghana, Syria, Bangladesh or China? Are the home countries willing to take them back? If the immigrants are a prosecuted minority at home, will they face an uncertian fate? Then there is the question of profiling, are Africans disproportionally targeted vs other immigrants from Russia?

Every Country send back illegals. Why the home countries shouldn't take back the ones who get expelled from Italy? Are we special?

And why should Africans be disproportionally targeted?


Berlusconi and company likes simple solutions to complex problems when the going gets tough. Immigration issue is not simple.

I totally despise Berlusconi, but at least this government is trying to provide a solution. Not perfect maybe, but at least they are doing something.

EDIT: I screwed up all the quotes. Sorry, I'm a noob.

[ohdannyboy]

Italian government, unable to find a way to get out of the crisis, start some time ago to instigate italian lower and middle class against immigrant.
At the beginnings, they said that immigrant "stole our works".
Bullsh*t. But works.
Because the immigrants do the works that we do not make more. Like attends to the old or collect vegetables in the middle Italy, 16 hour of work per day for a couple of euro.

Maybe Italians don't wanna do those jobs at those condition, don't you think? If nobody worked 16 hours for a couple of euro, employers would be forced to provide better work conditions. As ghostdog already told you, we're losing all the rights that our fathers gained. Immigration is not the only reason, but one of them.



Now, they build up various structures called "C.I.E." (Identification and Expulsion Center). Where a stranger is not "prisoner", but he is not free. Poor food, poor water (in some center non-drinkable water is free, but the drinkable is not), poor medical care.
But you can keep your cellphone, so if someone outside charge credit in, you can comunicate. If "someone" don't stole or broke it.
In this kind of structure, we have major episode of police brutality, suicide tentative and illegal somministration of barbiturates.
The Red Cross, who have the contracts to cure the host, often don't.

They have to be identified before being expelled. Where should be place them while we do it? Do we let them free, so they can disappear?

[IMTT]

Whatever Italy does I hope for their sake they don't lisen to any expert from the United states. We have no room to tell anyone anything since our policies on this topic are a total failure and not enforced anyway. PC sensitive liberal pukes and the courts have totally undermined the intent of border protection and national security as well as the cash give aways to people that have not complied with the law to get here. So we have no room to give anyone any advice about what and what shouldn't be done on this issue.

[MJC9678]

LOL - if they don't have the same point of view they are retards. Classic.

Man I hate these far right and far left guys. Some of them are real nutjobs...rofl



No, If someone is blatantly blowing smoke up you butt everyday on TV and you buy it without thinking because that is what's cool, then get offended when someone tells you that you are an idiot, then you fall quite firmly in the "retard" category. Does not matter if you are left or right.

"Viva Vittorio Emanuele Re d'Italia!"

[MJC9678]

Whatever Italy does I hope for their sake they don't lisen to any expert from the United states. We have no room to tell anyone anything since our policies on this topic are a total failure and not enforced anyway because of the PC liberal pukes.

Well said.

[Ordie]

They must be ITALIAN citizens and to swear obedience to the ITALIAN flag first to be in competition with me and my job ,so I don't see any risk , they want our money not the citizenship .

How does one obtain naturalized Italian Citizenship? If a child of an immigrant is born in Turin, does the child get Italian citizenship? What is the birthrate amongst immigrants vs native Italians?

If we have a president with a last name of Obama, I could easily imagine an Italian Prime Minister with a last name of Igwe, Del La Cruz, or Adib within 20 years.

No matter how hard you enforce the laws, it means nothing if it's not backed by long term policies of inclusion.

[TallGuy]

They don't grant automatic citizenship to foreigners born in Italy.


Birth and residency in Italy: a foreigner born in Italy and legally residing in our country, without interruption, until the age of 18, can acquire Italian citizenship if, by the age of 19, he or she makes a declaration accepting Italian citizenship.

http://www.comune.torino.it/en/papers/italian-citizenship.shtml

[Ordie]

They don't grant automatic citizenship to foreigners born in Italy.



http://www.comune.torino.it/en/papers/italian-citizenship.shtml

So you have all these kids growing up, educated, thinking and speaking like Italians live a life in limbo. If there is exclusion, there is fodder for extremist.

But someone like myself, with Italian grandparents, can get automatic Italian Citizenship. Even though I don't speak the language, never did my military service nor contributed to the Italian economy and society.

[Ordie]

True. Apparently this law will punish those who make money renting a place to illegals. 3 years in jail if I remember correctly. I hope it will be enforced properly.

Nope

The law only gives the Mafia another lucrative underground business to profit from.

Not only the Mob profits from the trafficking, but now they can profit from the rents. Thus making immigrants slave labor and harder to track.

[ghostdog]

So you have all these kids growing up, educated, thinking and speaking like Italians live a life in limbo. If there is exclusion, there is fodder for extremist.

But someone like myself, with Italian grandparents, can get automatic Italian Citizenship. Even though I don't speak the language, never did my military service nor contributed to the Italian economy and society.


Why to be Italian if you have more profit and rights being an immigrant .
The point for them is not to become Italian ,they come here to have free health cares ,education and social houses .
So they birth about 10 children each one and the govern give'em everything they need .

[ghostdog]

Nope

The law only gives the Mafia another lucrative underground business to profit from.

Not only the Mob profits from the trafficking, but now they can profit from the rents. Thus making immigrants slave labor and harder to track.

Yep !!

I forgot that yankee sees mafia wherever ....talking about racists ....

[Ordie]

Why to be Italian if you have more profit and rights being an immigrant .
The point for them is not to become Italian ,they come here to have free health cares ,education and social houses .
So they birth about 10 children each one and the govern give'em everything they need .

Why not make them into legal taxpaying residents and citizens to offset the costs of social programs?

[Ordie]

Yep !!

I forgot that yankee sees mafia wherever ....talking about racists ....

What is forbidden becomes profitable to the Mafia.

[Sada]

Whatever Italy does I hope for their sake they don't lisen to any No-expert from the United states.
Fixed for you and excuse me for that, but in in USA are very good experts about migrations policies that are worth of listening to. Migration policies are just like medicines, you take the dosis you need.
It could be a very insteresting discussion this thread but amost was broken by almost the same people with false arguments and datas than in other thread, in Spain we say ignorance hasn´t doors nor stupidness knows any barrier, I´ve listened before this style of arguing, it´s the ignorant populism that filled countries like Argentina with the **** of peronism and it seems today it goes upwards, 70 years doing the same mistakes and they don´t learn, excuse me italians guys here, it´s not agaisnt you, but it seems you pushed all the sillies ones out of your "forsaken" country and sent them all to America. So now we must assume that the Pope still can claim diplomatic inmunity for all catholics churches across Italy(don´t even mention the same possibility in USA, USA has its own rules)??? It was needed a II Vatican Concilium in 1960 to put Catholic church at the same speed than moderns societies, a fascist dictator with the strength of Mussolini to force a treaty with catholic church 90 years ago for ending the effective control of the Pope over italian land and politics, even the Trento Concilium 450 years ago impulsed by the very catholic Phillip II limited the terrenal powers of Popes over kings, a trend inagurated by his father sacking Rome and evicting the Pope of any phisical chance of beginning a war with his army...all this for nothing, the german Pope must open the churches in Italy to forbide italian justice of judging illegal inmigrants...And just because the Pope, you know, was a nazi, because he´s german, mind you. And it´s the maffia who brings all this old cargoes from Lybia to Italy, Gaddaffi actually it´s the Patrone, he´s italian, you know, because his name finishes with "i". Period.

[Sada]

Italy, like Spain, was traditionally a country of emigrants since the middle of XIX, because of that its legislation was done with the idea of making things easy for their lost manpower to return. In this 150 years happened many things in Italy: It was born as a unified state(before that, it was almost as easy or difficult for a napolitan guy emigrating to Brussels or to Torino. Afther IIWW italian economy was consolidated as one of the strongests in the world and the big losses of manpower travelling abroad was mostly finished, but the legislation wasn´t changed although circumstances are differents now: it´s the people of the world that it´s coming to Italy: Italy must do a inmigration policiy, the same that ALL americans countries had since over 100 years ago. When my grandparents left my country for America, they had to demonstrate that someones previously living there asked for them to go there, in fact they left this country knowing they had a job waiting for them in American, but before leaving the ship in the Boca of BA or Ellis Island they were inspected like cows, if there was any sign of they being ill, they were sent back to Europe. Now I listen every day in my home city in this side of the Atlantic to noisy americans claiming that "they" feeded my grandparents and that they can travel here with a touristic visa for working and we must shut our mouths. Stupidness. My grandparents, that effectively lived all across american continent, told my to not listen words agaisnt common sense, it´s a lost of time.

[Kravensas]

They must be ITALIAN citizens and to swear obedience to the ITALIAN flag first to be in competition with me and my job ,so I don't see any risk , they want our money not the citizenship .


Your job?
Do you clean old man ass or collect tomatoes?
They do the work that we don't want to do, in "legal cases".
In second chance, they sell drug or prostitute themself.
And few money end in them hands.
This law only increase pressure on them, in order to create social preoccupation, major gain for criminal organisation and a vent valve for the general state of malaise.



WRONG !!
During the Roman Empire they had the Roman citizenship and were free to move into the empire ,as today a guy from NY can move to LA .
You need to get a look to the history book again .You forgot the slaves.





As I already said, give me your address and we'll send them all to your house .
Wake up San Franceso d'Assisi we must think about our own citizens's problems !!
We are not a sort of giant humanitarian organization !!!
Where's europe !?!?!
Where's the place to put all that ppl !?!?!
Sorry to brake your romantic dreams but this law is the only solution !!I'm atheist.
But, someone call himself christian, but forget the part of the Bible where Jesus Christ talk about stranger (Mt 25,35).
The problem can be solved fourty or so years ago. But at the time we were racist towards our same compatriots of the south.
I live in Tourin, work in Barriera di Milano (search on google) the zone with the highest percentage of stranger. Never ever have a problem with, my girl too. Yes, i know that in several cases, they steal, sell drug or so, but we have the police, or not?
All this "security package" is bulls*it create to find an easy way to answer to difficult questions about Italy future.



They have to be identified before being expelled. Where should be place them while we do it? Do we let them free, so they can disappear?No, but if you want to expell them, you will do as fast you can instead of transferring them from a CIE in Tourin to a CIE in Sardinia and back again.
I think that someone is profiting over. Maybe wrong...


Maybe Italians don't wanna do those jobs at those condition, don't you think? If nobody worked 16 hours for a couple of euro, employers would be forced to provide better work conditions. As ghostdog already told you, we're losing all the rights that our fathers gained. Immigration is not the only reason, but one of them.Yes, but immigrants do, because they don't have chance. When you are desperate, you have nothing to lose but all to gain.
We are losing all the right because we are not unite in front of exploitation and when the politics (in agreement with economical gangsterism) gives us easy target as immigrant, we where happy to obey, instead of revolt.

[Ordie]

It wasn't that long ago when the Italians did crap jobs for the Swiss. I guess Italians forgot how bad they had it a generation ago where one had to immigrate to survive.

[ghostdog]

"forsaken" country

Forsaken ..thus abused adjective ....





Your job?
Do you clean old man ass or collect tomatoes?
They do the work that we don't want to do, in "legal cases".


I don't give a **** about what kind of job they do Mr. "theydotheworkwedontwantodo"

Those works we don't want to do are not infinite !!




I'm atheist.
But, someone call himself christian, but forget the part of the Bible where Jesus Christ talk about stranger (Mt 25,35).

I'm atheist too so don't know what a bible is !



I live in Tourin, work in Barriera di Milano (search on google) the zone with the highest percentage of stranger. Never ever have a problem with, my girl too. Yes, i know that in several cases, they steal, sell drug or so, but we have the police, or not?

Yeah adopt a thousand of those good guys and take'em to home with you !!
Why don't you ask to some victim ?



but we have the police, or not?

Oh yes the police ,you leftist always complain them but pretend to be protected .
Anyway the number of our policemen is not even the halves of the hordes .




We are losing all the right because we are not unite in front of exploitation and when the politics (in agreement with economical gangsterism) gives us easy target as immigrant, we where happy to obey, instead of revolt.

We are not unite because have flocks of ppl like you racists with his Italian brothers and immigrants' mystifiers !!

All that is the result of Mr. Mortadella's politics :they discriminate Italians and righter the immigrants and the trans******s ,now the ppl is angry and tired .


Personally I don't have any problem with immigrants ,i consider as Italian who accept my law ,my flag and my culture .
The rest can go home !!

[ghostdog]

It wasn't that long ago when the Italians did crap jobs for the Swiss. I guess Italians forgot how bad they had it a generation ago where one had to immigrate to survive.

What point is it ?
So when you shot to the Mexicans which part of your history do you forget exactly ?

I think you don't know a **** about Italy and should stop post here ,you'r trolling too much !!

[ohdannyboy]

It wasn't that long ago when the Italians did crap jobs for the Swiss. I guess Italians forgot how bad they had it a generation ago where one had to immigrate to survive.


No, we don't forget at all. Don't get me wrong, I am not against immigration, I just think that it must be well regulated. We can't afford to accept all the people who would like to come here. Both for economical and social reasons. I realize that most immigrants are not criminals, but it's a fact that many crimes are committed by immigrants, at least in many part of the country. And please, don't start with the same mafia and camorra stuff. In most of Italy the only "mafiosi" we've ever seen are Vito Corleone and Tony Soprano.

[ohdannyboy]

What point is it ?
So when you shot to the Mexicans which part of your history do you forget exactly ?

I think you don't know a **** about Italy and should stop post here ,you'r trolling too much !!

I don't think he's trolling, but what I fail to understand is "Why the hell do everybody find strange that we're having an immigration law like this one?"

This law is similar to what most western countries already have. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Ordie]

I don't think he's trolling, but what I fail to understand is "Why the hell do everybody find strange that we're having an immigration law like this one?"

This law is similar to what most western countries already have. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Because it's a law designed for political expediancy, not on sound long term comprehensive policy.

[ohdannyboy]

Because it's a law designed for political expediancy, not on sound long term comprehensive policy.

It's a law made to try to regulate immigration. It can't be a great long term policy. They'll try to come and we'll try to stop them. Tell me, how is it different from the US immigration law? What is the US long term policy regarding immigration?

[Narvaresearch]

What point is it ?
So when you shot to the Mexicans which part of your history do you forget exactly ?

I think you don't know a **** about Italy and should stop post here ,you'r trolling too much !!

You are using stronger language than anyone else, honestly. :roll:


I'm atheist too so don't know what a bible is !

You can be an atheist and be educated. I hope when you say you don't know what a bible is, you mean you don't know about a bible. I think because English is not your first language? Understandable mistake, just making sure.

[Narvaresearch]

I wouldn't say the Mafia is near dead in Italy, though. All countries have problems, but to deny the Mafia as a problem in Italy is wrong in my opinion. The Sicilian organized crime seems to be still pretty strong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/08/italy.johnhooper

Few years old, but:

In regards to the Ndrangheta:

For a start, it is bigger than the Mafia. Most estimates put its strength at 6,000-7,000 men against 5,000 for Sicily's Cosa Nostra.


As with the Mafia, the 'Ndrangheta's tentacles have spread thanks to emigration from Italy.


Gratteri estimates that 80% of the cocaine entering Europe today is brought in by Calabrian mobsters. "The 'Ndrangheta," says Macri, "represents the globalisation of Italian organised crime."

I don't know how reliable this is:
http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/article/Italy/Organised-Crime-in-Italy:-The-Italian-Mafia/306


The Mafia in Italy constitutes a formidable economic force which accounts for approximately 10% of Italy’s GDP. Annual turnover of the Italian Mafia is estimated at around 10 billion Euros.

Don't know how reliable this is either:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/25/italys-mafia-thrives-in-g_n_191377.html



NAPLES, Italy — While businesses around the world are hunkering down for survival, the Italian mob is living a golden moment.
Italy's various organized crime syndicates _ often lumped together colloquially as Mafia Inc. _ are gobbling up gas stations, muscling in on supermarket franchises, making loans to cash-starved businesses, taking over trattorias and acquiring buildings in swank neighborhoods in Rome and Milan, investigators say.

[ghostdog]

You are using stronger language than anyone else, honestly. :roll:

A foreigner has been insisting for various days with his personal egocentric point of view about Italy ,i'm a little bit tired :roll:




You can be an atheist and be educated. I hope when you say you don't know what a bible is, you mean you don't know about a bible. I think because English is not your first language? Understandable mistake, just making sure.

It's a way to say i don't recognize it ,I know what it is I've been forced to read study and comment when I was a child ,later I choose my way .

[Ordie]

It's a law made to try to regulate immigration. It can't be a great long term policy. They'll try to come and we'll try to stop them. Tell me, how is it different from the US immigration law? What is the US long term policy regarding immigration?

It's no different than US approach. That is the problem. US immigration laws are put into law in reaction to a threat supported by fear of the native population.

In it's history the US passed anti- Irish Catholic immigration, Chinese exclusion laws, even to the point of Scapegoating Italian immigrants as anarchists. At the same time we give Cubans free access.

The fact of the matter is that US immigration laws are broken. Therefore there is no need to follow our example.

On this note, I think there is a unique opportunity for the Italian Govt. And the Bishop of Rome to collaborate in developing a comprehensive immigration policy that is fair, sustainable and beneficial to immigrant and Italians alike.

[ohdannyboy]

I wouldn't say the Mafia is near dead in Italy, though. All countries have problems, but to deny the Mafia as a problem in Italy is wrong in my opinion. The Sicilian organized crime seems to be still pretty strong.



I never said that mafia is dead. But it's not and it's never been present in most of Italy. Maybe they might own some more or less legal business in biggest cities like Rome or Milan, but usually they do their business in their territory. Which means more or less Sicily, Naples and Calabria.

I've lived most of my life in Florence and I've never heard of a crime committed by "Italian" mafia here. At least as far as I remember. Nowadays Chinese mafia is quite strong here, and from time to time they find some Chinese guy murdered and dumped in some ditch around Florence.

[Ordie]

Florentine?

The de Medici family could be considered the greatest mafia family in history.

Macchiavelli is required reading for the Mob.

[ghostdog]

Dude tha mafia is in your head .

[ohdannyboy]

It's no different than US approach. That is the problem. US immigration laws are put into law in reaction to a threat supported by fear of the native population.

In it's history the US passed anti- Irish Catholic immigration, Chinese exclusion laws, even to the point of Scapegoating Italian immigrants as anarchists. At the same time we give Cubans free access.

Sometimes this fear is partly justifiable. And an elected government must act according to the needs of the population, within certain limits of course. And you can't compare the situation of the US 100 years ago, to that of an European Country today. US was almost empty back then and those immigrants were needed to build the Country. Our Country is already built and already full.



The fact of the matter is that US immigration laws are broken. Therefore there is no need to follow our example.

US immigration law is IMO amongst the strictest ones nowadays. I had a personal experience a few years ago.


On this note, I think there is a unique opportunity for the Italian Govt. And the Bishop of Rome to collaborate in developing a comprehensive immigration policy that is fair, sustainable and beneficial to immigrant and Italians alike.

I don't think that the Vatican should meddle with Italian business. They should better think about their spiritual stuff rather than the laws of a sovereign Country. They already interfered too many times IMO.

Anyhow, what do you think would be a good immigration policy? Good for Italians and immigrants I mean.

[ohdannyboy]

Florentine?

The de Medici family could be considered the greatest mafia family in history.



I wish we had the Medici's back. They couldn't be worse than the current administration, which is leftist by the way p-)

[Ordie]

US immigration policies are reactive. Usually targeted at a specific group of people. Fear is driven by xenophobia which can lead to tragic outcomes.

Italy is becoming vacant especially in the rural areas. My grandfathers village in Basilicata is nearly empty with many pensioners. There are more members of my family in Buenos Aires than in Basilicata.

The Vatican has the most experienced and extensive diplomatic corps in the world. Moreover they have the most diverse staff speaking every dead and living language one could imagine. The Vatican can tell you what are the local social economic conditions from Port Harcourt Nigeria to Dili East Timor through it's networks of Papal Nuncials and parishes.

The Vatican can be a tremendous resource in identifing and predicting immigration tends and waves. Given this resource, Italy can mitigate immigration by targeting local microlending and development aid at locations abroad.

[ghostdog]

But the vatican is not Italy and their affairs are more than to help us in these things ,they did enough damages in the past .

[Ordie]

But the vatican is not Italy and their affairs are more than to help us in these things ,they did enough damages in the past .

You guys never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity through excuses. Both countries share the same capital, yet squanders the great possibilities.

Total lack of vision.

[ghostdog]

And where are those great possibilities ?

The Vatican is the centre of the Catholic church , they continually interferes with the Italian government .We constantly are under the pressure of their dull visions .
Thanks to them our best scientists must leave Italy to develop outside their researches .

I want to remember you that in last century they have been the greatest promoters of the division of our nation ,and they want to make the abortion illegal again .


They simply say to accept these immigrants and to give an house and job to all them ,but they don't give an Euro for this cause just bla bla bla from a balcony !!



You should deepen your knowledge about Italy before coming here to sell suggestions with your utopian vision .

[ghostdog]

I've lived most of my life in Florence and I've never heard of a crime committed by "Italian" mafia here. At least as far as I remember. Nowadays Chinese mafia is quite strong here, and from time to time they find some Chinese guy murdered and dumped in some ditch around Florence.

The Chinese mafia in Tuscany while the interland of Milan is a kingdom of the Latin American gangs .

[Ordie]

The Chinese mafia in Tuscany while the interland of Milan is a kingdom of the Latin American gangs .

So you do agree that the Mafia exist.

[Ordie]

And where are those great possibilities ?

The Vatican is the centre of the Catholic church , they continually interferes with the Italian government .We constantly are under the pressure of their dull visions .
Thanks to them our best scientists must leave Italy to develop outside their researches .

I want to remember you that in last century they have been the greatest promoters of the division of our nation ,and they want to make the abortion illegal again .


They simply say to accept these immigrants and to give an house and job to all them ,but they don't give an Euro for this cause just bla bla bla from a balcony !!



You should deepen your knowledge about Italy before coming here to sell suggestions with your utopian vision .

One could agree to disagree on issues, but always find a common issue that is mutually beneficial.

If immigration is an issue, find out ways to mitigate and manage the flow of immigration. As I said, the Vatican has the most extensive global network of primary intelligence that any spy agency or foriegn ministry would envy.

They can tell you the drought conditions in Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua to sectarian tensions in Abuja, Nigeria and impacts to the local parishes. The local priest can tell you who left the parish to for Europe or not.

They can also help the Italian government through the Vatican's network of charities at home and abroad. Our government sometimes depends on the Papal Nuncial for vital socio-economic data that no spyplane can provide.

[ghostdog]

So you do agree that the Mafia exist.



Mafia is from Sicily , those others are simply Criminal organizzations made by immigrants to controll their own traffics .
The matter here is that you see MAFIA wherever in Italy , you came here 17 years ago for 2 weeks visiting 5 cities .
Sorry it's not enough to know Italy I think you watch the Soprano's too much p-).

[Ordie]

Mafia is from Sicily , those others are simply Criminal organizzations made by immigrants to controll their own traffics .
The matter here is that you see MAFIA wherever in Italy , you came here 17 years ago for 2 weeks visiting 5 cities .
Sorry it's not enough to know Italy I think you watch the Soprano's too much p-).

To be honest, I never watched an episode.
I don't have cable TV.

Organized crime exist because of vice, scarcity, corruption, neglect, and no confidence in government.

[ghostdog]

Organized crime exist because of vice, scarcity, corruption, neglect, and no confidence in government.

Yep but it is in every place of this world with different names : yakuza,triads,narcos,mafia,bratva .
In Latin America they even posses personal armies so none is safe . The black and the white is everywhere .

[Kravensas]

I don't give a **** about what kind of job they do Mr. "theydotheworkwedontwantodo"
Those works we don't want to do are not infinite !!


You think so.



I'm atheist too so don't know what a bible is !It's bad. Like the Coran and other books are good lecture to know a part of culture of a country.
In order to do not horrible mistake as our First Man Berlusconi do every time he meet other rapresentative...



Yeah adopt a thousand of those good guys and take'em to home with you !! Why don't you ask to some victim ?In some period, on the news they talk about thousand and thousand of dog who attack people. But we have not imprisoned every dog, right?
I don't say that they are all saint. But, like us, they are good or bad.
The duty of a government is to protect the good and punish the bad.
Not to lock down in a prison everyone. Too easy.
If you want to know whay they come to Italy illegally, I conseil you to read "I dannati del lavoro" edited by "Sensibili alle foglie".
A good book. Different from a Bible. :)



Oh yes the police ,you leftist always complain them but pretend to be protected .
Anyway the number of our policemen is not even the halves of the hordes.I don't want protection because i'm not in trouble. And if I was, the police will arrive too late.
Because politicians consume all the money and police car have no fuel.
Have you ever asked yourself whay they dind't strengthen the police force, instead of do populistic maneuvers like deploy the armed forces in the street? You know that this kind of law are useless because we have few police?



We are not unite because have flocks of ppl like you racists with his Italian brothers and immigrants' mystifiers !!
All that is the result of Mr. Mortadella's politics :they discriminate Italians and righter the immigrants and the trans******s ,now the ppl is angry and tired .Tran******?? Who cares about?
Every famous politicians or business man was caught with!
If we lock down tran******, we are going to destroy our political and economics system! rofl



Personally I don't have any problem with immigrants ,i consider as Italian who accept my law ,my flag and my culture .
The rest can go home !!yes, your flag. The same that 5 ministers of Lega Nord have burnt in Swiss.
Or the same that, in 1997, Mr.Bossi advises to a mrs. to put it in the wc?

The funny is that this law is promoted by the same people.

[ghostdog]

It's bad. Like the Coran and other books are good lecture to know a part of culture of a country.
In order to do not horrible mistake as our First Man Berlusconi do every time he meet other rapresentative...

Both are opium for ppl .
I'm sure that Berlusconi is not a saint but he does less mistakes than Mr.Motadella aka Prodi or any other leftist leader .



In some period, on the news they talk about thousand and thousand of dog who attack people. But we have not imprisoned every dog, right?
I don't say that they are all saint. But, like us, they are good or bad.
The duty of a government is to protect the good and punish the bad.
Not to lock down in a prison everyone. Too easy.
If you want to know whay they come to Italy illegally, I conseil you to read "I dannati del lavoro" edited by "Sensibili alle foglie".
A good book. Different from a Bible. :)


I don't feed certain newspapers and media ,I prefer find the information by myself through the web but the main point is that you know that everything is manipulated .
Today each one wants to approach you to his point of view .





I don't want protection because i'm not in trouble. And if I was, the police will arrive too late.
Because politicians consume all the money and police car have no fuel.
Have you ever asked yourself whay they dind't strengthen the police force, instead of do populistic maneuvers like deploy the armed forces in the street? You know that this kind of law are useless because we have few police?


Here the only one is doing populism is you :roll: .





yes, your flag. The same that 5 ministers of Lega Nord have burnt in Swiss.
Or the same that, in 1997, Mr.Bossi advises to a mrs. to put it in the wc?

The funny is that this law is promoted by the same people.

Oh and which did you vote ?

The Clown who dress a green shirt and burn the Italian flag .

OR the flock of monkeys who hide their face behind a kefiah , preach the peace and then burn the flag and everything they meet during their so pacifist demonstrations .

The left wing ,who doesn't lose an occasion to find excuses to destabilize Italy and then the government .
The left wing ,who has tried to sell Italy to its socialist brothers in Spain ( receiving the opposite effect and ridiculing the government of zapatero )
The left wing ,who sells Italy to whoever could return'em the command of the country .

You think ppl don't see ,you think ppl don't know .
This is the why you'r losing your votes castle after castle ,and the best is yet to come .

[Kravensas]

Both are opium for ppl .
I'm sure that Berlusconi is not a saint but he does less mistakes than Mr.Motadella aka Prodi or any other leftist leader .

Both do a lot of mistakes. We (as Italian) miss a true, clean, leader.


I don't feed certain newspapers and media ,I prefer find the information by myself through the web but the main point is that you know that everything is manipulated .
Today each one wants to approach you to his point of view .Agree.
Personally, I try to ear both the side and get my own point. It's not easy.



Here the only one is doing populism is you :roll: .Why? Because i say that politicians (both the sides) are like locust and consume a disproportionated quantity of money?
The police told often that they are outnumbered and poor equipped.
For an extreme exemple: a friend of mine was in the Carabinieri, small station, with ONE car, often out of service. Why need the Army walking in the street or we need better politicians?



Oh and which did you vote ?
The Clown who dress a green shirt and burn the Italian flag .
OR the flock of monkeys who hide their face behind a kefiah , preach the peace and then burn the flag and everything they meet during their so pacifist demonstrations .The flock of monkeys don't work in Parlament or get politicians salary.
I don't share they're point of views, but they are citizen, so they're are free to do everything they want and get the consequences of they're action.
As I remember, burn the Italian flag was a crime.
Ops, politicians can't be imprisoned. They have the immunity!



The left wing ,who doesn't lose an occasion to find excuses to destabilize Italy and then the government .
The left wing ,who has tried to sell Italy to its socialist brothers in Spain ( receiving the opposite effect and ridiculing the government of zapatero )
The left wing ,who sells Italy to whoever could return'em the command of the country .
You think ppl don't see ,you think ppl don't know .
This is the why you'r losing your votes castle after castle ,and the best is yet to come .... it's called opposition...
Destabilize? No, why? the Governent do all by himself.
Foreign country laugh for our conditions.
Whe are 76° in the classifies for press freedom.
All our politicians was been inquired for at least one crime.
If, in one Country, a politicians was caught with drug and girl, he discharge himself the same day.
In Italy, he justify himself isaying that it was felt alone and the same day the Parlament vote for a salary increasing in order to approach to it the family. (900€, you remember?).

I don't like both the part, for the reason that they demonstrate every day that the law is not equal for all, if you have the money or the power.
I will vote when I will find a politician that at least is coherent.

Waiting that, I don't shoot at easy target...

[ghostdog]

... it's called opposition...

No this is not opposition ,this is a so ridiculous thing and the why nobody believe in the left any more .
"it's raining !! " and the leftists "oh damn Berlusconi !!"
"oh Pandas are in extinction !!" oh it's the dwarf Silvio for sure !!
This is not serious opposition ,they are a band of crying children !!


Destabilize? No, why? the Governent do all by himself.

Oh this is what I call "leftist thought"
Do you have any proof about ?
No it's just your point of view .


The flock of monkeys don't work in Parlament or get politicians salary.
I don't share they're point of views, but they are citizen, so they're are free to do everything they want and get the consequences of they're action.
As I remember, burn the Italian flag was a crime.
Ops, politicians can't be imprisoned. They have the immunity!

I say just a name On.Caruso ,the first and only NO GLOBAL sitting in a parliament so paid with our taxes (left wing naturally )



Foreign country laugh for our conditions.
We are 76° in the classifies for press freedom.

And who's laughing ?

The Spain ? They would do better to think about their awful problems !!

The England ?They has always had interest to destabilize the Italian government it's a historical fact .




All our politicians was been inquired for at least one crime.
If, in one Country, a politicians was caught with drug and girl, he discharge himself the same day.
In Italy, he justify himself isaying that it was felt alone and the same day the Parlament vote for a salary increasing in order to approach to it the family. (900€, you remember?).


Mhh about crimes and drugs i'm whit you but I think their ****** life is PRIVACY .
They are not priest and love and *** are not a punishable crimes in Italy ,that was another dirty left wing's manoeuvre aimed to destabilize the government .
I don't like the dwarf silvio but if he wanna makes *** with a young fresh lady or whoever he wants it doesn't touch my attention ,the important is he also thinks about its job .





Anyway we'r going a little bit OT here .

[Kravensas]

No this is not opposition ,this is a so ridiculous thing and the why nobody believe in the left any more .
"it's raining !! " and the leftists "oh damn Berlusconi !!"
"oh Pandas are in extinction !!" oh it's the dwarf Silvio for sure !!
This is not serious opposition ,they are a band of crying children !!


It's why italian said often "PIOVE GOVERNO LADRO" (trad: It's raining, thief government).
And it's ever true!



Oh this is what I call "leftist tough"
Do you have any proof about ?
No it's just your point of view . Yeah, we have the Italy full of proof.
Oh, no! It's the garbage on the street of Napoli, that the Government have cleaned for sure a long time ago... rofl


I say just a name On.Caruso ,the first and only NO GLOBAL sitting in a parliament so paid with our taxes (left wing naturally )Well, in Italy it's normal.
Our Minister of Interior, when he was not in charge (so no immunity) was condamned for resistance to public force.
He has bitten a policeman.
It's both sad and funny.


And who's laughing ?
The Spain ? They would do better to think about their awful problems !!
The Rwanda is laughing too.
For sh*t like the Salvini's chorus...



The England ?They has always had interest to destabilize the Italian government it's a historical fact .
It's the Red England conspiracy?


Mhh about crimes and drugs i'm whit you but I think their ****** life is PRIVACY .
They are not priest and love and *** are not a punishable crimes in Italy ,that was another dirty left wing's manoeuvre aimed to destabilize the government .
I don't like the dwarf silvio but if he wanna makes *** with a young fresh lady or whoever he wants it doesn't touch my attention ,the important is he also thinks about its job .
Nope. In theory, they have to rapresent the ppl in the best way, with word, fact and moral conduct.
Can you (as politicians) punish me if I get drug when you have your nose full of cocaine??
Can you speak about family and moral value, when you **** everything that moves??
Coherence is the key.

And, different from you (ghostdog), i'm not saying "Left is best, right is bad".
They all live in golden towes, safes from all, you think that they care about the ppl and his problem?




Anyway we'r going a little bit OT here .Yes, but everything is connected.

From my point, politicians are distracting us with a problem that can be solved long time ago without drastic solutions, while they continue to cure their interests, as ever.
When the "security emergency" with immigrant will be forgotten, they only have to find another target and start again the dance...

[IcyHot]

Nice all EU should do the same , look at Scandinavia in 1000 years there will be no blond people left.

[ghostdog]

Yeah, we have the Italy full of proof.
Oh, no! It's the garbage on the street of Napoli, that the Government have cleaned for sure a long time ago... rofl

Oh I forget the garbage yes ,it was for berlusconi as the rain and pandas :roll: ...




The Rwanda is laughing too.
For sh*t like the Salvini's chorus...

Oh they have the TV in Rwanda ?
Amazing !!




It's the Red England conspiracy?

Plz i'm not kidding ,The uk constantly tries to boycott the Italy for various reasons one more :the biggest publishers (Murdock) is not in good relationship with silvio .




And, different from you (ghostdog), i'm not saying "Left is best, right is bad".
They all live in golden towes, safes from all, you think that they care about the ppl and his problem?

No i'm not sustaining that ,you don't get my point .
I'm saying both are bad but I have to recongize they aren't the problem ,the real problem is that Italians are a collection of individuals, they have no civic sense, most Italians really don't care about anyone who isn't a close family member.
Many of them don't look for information living about what they feel to say on the air or by concepts elaborated by others .They just repeat and repeat as a flock of parrots .

[The Balkan]

All of native Europe (or most) seems to be in decline in this regard. :|

Heh, well there is a few groups breeding ok..Bosniaks, Albanians, Chechens...that sort

worst nightmare for some I guess p-)

[Kravensas]

Oh I forget the garbage yes ,it was for berlusconi as the rain and pandas :roll: ...

When you tell a lie, be sure to say it well.


Plz i'm not kidding ,The uk constantly tries to boycott the Italy for various reasons one more :the biggest publishers (Murdock) is not in good relationship with silvio .I'm kidding about all the "red cospiracy" story ...Red prosecuting attorney, red press, red wife. Or "they have not understood me".

Anyway,

I'm saying both are bad but I have to recongize they aren't the problem ,the real problem is that Italians are a collection of individuals, they have no civic sense, most Italians really don't care about anyone who isn't a close family member.
Many of them don't look for information living about what they feel to say on the air or by concepts elaborated by others .They just repeat and repeat as a flock of parrots .That it not true.
A lot of man and women care of the life of peoples out of their family.
And a lot of man and women are worried by the direction that this (but not only this) goverment is moving.
For political reason? Some, but a part is OUT of political parties.

And they are worried for thing such the Italian National Guard (founded by Gaetano Saya, you know who is, right?), a bunch of puppet dressed like Charlie Chaplin in the movie "The great Dictators".
Because nobody is safe in a country where the use of the force is no more only prerogative of the State.

I agree with you, people often don't care.
Well, If you are not stranger, why should you be worried?
If tomorrow will be the turn of the homo****** or the one of the gipsy, who cares again?
Life is good if you were born in the right country, in the right moment, with the right skin.

I agree with you again, people act like parrots (I understood the reference, don't worry).
If someone say that stranger are evil or homo****** are disappropriated in a catholic country, everybody repeat and increase the mass of jumping sheep.
And we have rightful aggression against homo****** in Rome, justified violence in Turin and a distort sense of patrioctism all over Italy.

This law is just another act to calm down the people, giving the false look of doing something.
In reality, we don't have enough police to apply the law and no prison to lock down anybody.
But this, the politicians and the people both know.

This kind of law only increase the pressure on a weak group of people, distract a larger part of population and enjoy some other who can act as "vigilantes" with false uniform and true anger.
It's just another war between poor.

And, some post ago, you had written: "And the best part is yet to come".
What to you intend?

[ghostdog]

And, some post ago, you had written: "And the best part is yet to come".
What to you intend?


It means that the right wing will gain more field .

[Ordie]

Italy lawmaker resigns after making racist chant
1 day ago
ROME (AP) — An Italian lawmaker in Premier Silvio Berlusconi's coalition has resigned after being filmed singing a racist chant about Naples and its residents.
Matteo Salvini, a member of the often xenophobic, anti-immigrant Northern League party, resigned his seat in the lower chamber of Parliament on Tuesday. He denied the decision was connected to the scandal.
In the video published by left-leaning daily La Repubblica, Salvini is shown at a party gathering in June leading a profanity-filled chant often sung by northern fans at soccer stadiums to denigrate rivals from Naples and other southern towns.
The Northern League once advocated independence for Italy's prosperous northern regions from the less developed south. The party has since abandoned that demand, but hostility toward southerners still runs deep among its members.
The video sparked calls for Salvini's resignation and an official apology from the opposition and even some politicians in Berlusconi's coalition. In interviews with Italian media on Wednesday, Salvini said he had stepped down because he was elected to the European Parliament and had opted for a seat in that assembly.
He told the SkyTG24 news channel the chant "is something that has been going around Italy's stadiums for 40 years ... it has nothing to do with politics."
Salvini's resignation doesn't endanger Berlusconi's conservative coalition, which has a comfortable majority in Parliament, but it is a new embarrassment for the premier as he chairs the Group of Eight meeting that started Wednesday in L'Aquila.
Berlusconi has already been fending off a scandal over his purported relationships with young women. The premier has denied all the allegations, calling them a smear campaign by the left.

Source:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j7X2asxx-uYQM4VdqRZf65TmsP5wD99A89TO0

[Ordie]

G8: Silvio Berlusconi has offended nearly every G8 leader

Silvio Berlusconi has landed himself in hot water with almost all of the G8 member nations, managing to personally offend the leaders of each country.



By Nick Squires in Rome
Published: 6:02PM BST 03 Jul 2009
Comments 55 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/g8/5735189/G8-Silvio-Berlusconi-has-offended-nearly-every-G8-leader.html#comments) | Comment on this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/g8/5735189/G8-Silvio-Berlusconi-has-offended-nearly-every-G8-leader.html#postComment)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01434/silvio_1434324c.jpg Silvio Berlusconi has offended nearly every G8 leader Photo: EPA


From Angela Merkel to Barack Obama, few have emerged unscathed from his peculiar brand of music hall humour, adolescent japes and sexist quips.
As Italy prepares to host the 2009 G8 summit, we list the colourful comments the Italian prime minister has made on each attending country - the only G8 countries to have escaped his attention appear to be Canada and Japan. But all of that could change by next week.
[/URL]

BRITAIN
After yelling a greeting at US President Barack Obama during a G20 group photo at Buckingham House in April, he earned a rebuke from the Queen.
Mr Berlusconi shouted "Mr Obama", prompting the Queen to turn around in apparent irritation.
Footage of the incident became a YouTube hit in Italy, with one clip posted on the video-sharing website titled "Bothersome Berlusconi, reproached by the Queen."
Corriere Della Sera newspaper said Mr Berlusconi's spirited greeting was an "embarrassment" for Italians.
UNITED STATES
Mr Berlusconi alluded last year to his envy of President Barack Obama's "suntan", a remark which the Italian premier, who boasts a year-round tanned complexion, insisted was a good-humoured compliment.
The remark caused widespread offence, but Mr Berlusconi nonetheless followed it up with a similar comment in March, when he said his response own to the global economic crisis had been different to that of Mr Obama because "I'm paler".
"I'm paler because it's been so long since I went sunbathing. He's more handsome, younger and taller," the media mogul quipped.
FRANCE
In February Mr Berlusconi was reported to have joked to Nicolas Sarkozy that he "gave" the French president his Italian-born wife, Carla Bruni.
He whispered to Mr Sarkozy in a mixture of French and Italian during a television press conference: "Moi, je t'ai donne la tua donna".
The "joke" was an allusion to the fact that France's first lady was born in Italy and her family lived in Turin before moving to Paris in the 1970s because of fears of kidnap by left-wing terrorists.
GERMANY
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, will not have forgotten that at a recent Nato event, Mr Berlusconi kept her waiting by talking on his mobile phone with his back turned to her, or that he once taunted a German MEP by saying he was "perfect" material for a concentration camp guard.
After the MEP, Martin Schulz, criticised the Italian prime minister for his alleged links to the mafia, Mr Berlusconi told him: "I know that in Italy there is a man producing a film on Nazi concentration camps - I shall put you forward for the role of Kapo (a guard chosen from among the prisoners) - you would be perfect."
CHINA
China is not a member of the G8, but president Hu Jintao is attending this year's summit. Mr Berlusconi joked in 2006 that during Maoist rule, the Chinese "did not eat children, but had them boiled to fertilise the fields."
Mr Berlusconi later said: "It was questionable irony ... because this joke is questionable."
RUSSIA
At a joint press conference in Sardinia with Vladimir Putin, a journalist asked the then-Russian president if he planned to divorce his wife and marry a Russian Olympic gold medalist with whom he was rumoured to be having an affair. When Mr Putin appeared irritated by the question, Mr Berlusconi made the shape of a pistol with his hand and "shot" the reporter.
WHO IS NEXT?
Mr Berlusconi never misses an opportunity to make an off-colour quip, and many of his gaffes have been made at home. A few months ago, on the inaugural run of a new high-speed rail link between Rome and Florence, he donned a ticket collector's cap and asked the mayor of Florence: "How do you like the railway man prime minister?"
He then grinned and answered his own question. "I myself prefer the whoremonger PM".
As allegations over Mr Berlusconi's personal life threaten to overshadow the summit, Italians will hope that their prime minister can avoid a repeat performance when the G8 opens on Wednesday.



Source:[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/g8/5735189/G8-Silvio-Berlusconi-has-offended-nearly-every-G8-leader.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/jennymccartney/5141106/Berlusconi-is-the-Italian-for-totally-shameless.html)

[ghostdog]

Ordie your morbid interest for my country fills me with pride :) .

[zema_06]

Source:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j7X2asxx-uYQM4VdqRZf65TmsP5wD99A89TO0

the voices of salvinis resignation were around a month ago after the european elections, as he said that he would take the seat in the eu parliament...

he must fill his resignation before the 14th july as on that day the new eu parliament will start it's work...

[Ordie]

Ordie your morbid interest for my country fills me with pride :) .

Pretty soon it will be my country soon.

My Italian Passport application is being processed along with all of my Argentine cousins.

[The Balkan]

RUSSIA
At a joint press conference in Sardinia with Vladimir Putin, a journalist asked the then-Russian president if he planned to divorce his wife and marry a Russian Olympic gold medalist with whom he was rumoured to be having an affair. When Mr Putin appeared irritated by the question, Mr Berlusconi made the shape of a pistol with his hand and "shot" the reporter.


LMMFAO this man is a genius

[Rosc0]

RUSSIA
At a joint press conference in Sardinia with Vladimir Putin, a journalist asked the then-Russian president if he planned to divorce his wife and marry a Russian Olympic gold medalist with whom he was rumoured to be having an affair. When Mr Putin appeared irritated by the question, Mr Berlusconi made the shape of a pistol with his hand and "shot" the reporter.


LMMFAO this man is a genius

this man is a clown.

the really, really bad thing is that the other Italian politicians are no way better at all: the integrity is an optional.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

RUSSIA
At a joint press conference in Sardinia with Vladimir Putin, a journalist asked the then-Russian president if he planned to divorce his wife and marry a Russian Olympic gold medalist with whom he was rumoured to be having an affair. When Mr Putin appeared irritated by the question, Mr Berlusconi made the shape of a pistol with his hand and "shot" the reporter.


LMMFAO this man is a geniusWhere is this reporter now? Did he leave a note.:)

[ghostdog]

Where is this reporter now? Did he leave a note.:)


Now he manages the gulag's newspaper ....