The Truth About the M1 Abrams

[Sayeret]

http://www.rfforces.net/viewtopic.php?t=375

A few things to note one of:

one of the posters have the rank Chechen terrorist despite its supposed to be a Russian site.

one of the memebers says the RPG-7 is better than all the western ATGMs

[Kilgor]

As who can see if you read the articles the M-1 does have some problems but so do all other tanks, Russian or otherwize. The Abrams is being used in a type of combat that it was not designed for. In a real type tank battle the Abrams has proven very effective.

quote from the article.

btw... who ever said the abrams was invincable ?

[Sayeret]

Yeah I think these people are just pissed off that Western tanks have done in recent conflicts. Its obnoxious how they act like war is a game and that it is cool when a tank is destroyed or people are killed.

[admar2]

MBT's aren't designed to fight infantry and dudes running around corners with rpg's. without infantry support in close in combat, the big MBT's are quite vulnerable, ANY MBT is.

they are however designed to wipe out other tanks, which the Abrams has proven quite capable of doing in the hands of Army and Marine units. against any other MBT it has been up against, it has performed more than excellently.

I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.

[Secret Squirrel]

I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.

Not to nitpick too much, but battle proven against what? outdated enemy tanks?

[ZeroPositive]

yeah who said Tanks were meant to be totally indestructable... wtf
Even the Terminator was destroyed in the end of the movies...
nevermind....
These people need to get out more...

[Sayeret]

Even the Terminator was destroyed in the end of the movies...

hahahaha rofl rofl

[Burncycle]

That forum is great for a bit of amusement now and then. Not much good for anything other than that.

If western tech does poorly, it's "The TRUTH FINALLY REVEALED!!!"

And if russian tech does poorly, they make excuses to explain it.

Such is life

[A Soldier]

Operation Ivy where are you when needed

[Hullebullen]

Did you notice that a certain Uninen is an administrator there?

[Sayeret]

Did you notice that a certain Uninen is an administrator there?

Yeah, I was actually going to mention that but decided not to.

[Midav]

If this Chechen guy is legit, and even if not, my reply is:

DUH!

Hit the M1 in the right spot and the whole thing goes kaputt.

[Ratamacue]

I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.
Not to nitpick too much, but battle proven against what? outdated enemy tanks?
That's more than virtually any other modern MBT is proven against.

[OB Kenobi]

MBT's aren't designed to fight infantry and dudes running around corners with rpg's. without infantry support in close in combat, the big MBT's are quite vulnerable, ANY MBT is.

they are however designed to wipe out other tanks, which the Abrams has proven quite capable of doing in the hands of Army and Marine units. against any other MBT it has been up against, it has performed more than excellently.

Iraqi tanks were obsolete in every way, they were not a good test of a modern tank's capabilities. Most of all, they couldn't even see anything at night to hit what was coming at them, and many more were sitting ducks for Apaches and Warthogs. That is a CRITICAL difference, think about it.

It's obvious that much lighter Russian tanks will still be knocked-out more easily than an Abrams from the front, but then an Abrams hasn't faced 125mm DU rounds from modern Russian tanks either. The difference is the American crew might still be able to get out unharmed, while the Russian crew will probably take casualties.



I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.

Haven't seen Leopard 2s or LeClercs in real combat yet AFAIK. The Challenger seemed to do ok in Iraq too. You know, despite the ones knocked out by US aircraft during friendly-fire incidents.

[Midav]

Haven't seen Leopard 2s or LeClercs in real combat yet AFAIK. The Challenger seemed to do ok in Iraq too. You know, despite the ones knocked out by US aircraft during friendly-fire incidents.

Or the British on British FF....

In the first GW there were also US on US FF incidents....

[agcsy]

Its posted on a Russian armor board what do you expect? Onto the FF issue show me another country that relies and has fielded the amount of airpower in a wartime enviroment as America has in the past 30 years.

FF happens things can be done to prevent it but as humans are behind the controls errors will occur.

[Seraphim]

FF happens things can be done to prevent it but as humans are behind the controls errors will occur.

*Cough*Windows*Cough* ;)

[Mark Sman]

blah blah blah is the best tank because blah blah blah.

Also blah blah blah.
from: blahblahblah.bs

When everyone starts shooting at everyone, and they will, you need the right weapon for the right engagement.

You won't have it. So you will make do like every other poor schmuck.

The M-1 Abrams is the best tank available to US forces currently. So we use it. It really is that simple.

[SeanAshi]

What was the reaction from the Soviets after every Arab defeat against Israel?

[Operation Ivy]

The M-1 Abrams is the best tank available to US forces currently. So we use it. It really is that simple.
This quote says it all :D

If u put any other tank in the same postion you will probly get the same results

[UoUo]

What was the reaction from the Soviets after every Arab defeat against Israel?

True...until now almost every time the Westren stuff won.

[Roger Rabbit]

I've heard the following being said

"The only thing that can knock out a Challenger 2 is another Challenger 2."

Oh look its Unien on that site. What'd he get kicked off this website for?

[BlackRain]

I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.

Not to nitpick too much, but battle proven against what? outdated enemy tanks?


Three versions of the Abrams tank are currently in service. The original M1 model date to the the early 1980s, and two newer versions, designated M1A1 and M1A2. The M1A1 series was produced from 1985 through 1993.

The T-90 tank went into low-level production in 1993, based on a prototype designated as the T-88.

The T-72 tank, which entered production in 1971, was first seen in public in 1977.

The T-62A variant first appeared in 1970. By the 1980s it was replaced by the new generation T-64/T-72/T-80 tanks as the first-line Soviet main battle tank.

[Secret Squirrel]

I'd say its just about the best battle proven tank any country is fielding at this time.

Not to nitpick too much, but battle proven against what? outdated enemy tanks?


Three versions of the Abrams tank are currently in service. The original M1 model date to the the early 1980s, and two newer versions, designated M1A1 and M1A2. The M1A1 series was produced from 1985 through 1993.

The T-90 tank went into low-level production in 1993, based on a prototype designated as the T-88.

The T-72 tank, which entered production in 1971, was first seen in public in 1977.

The T-62A variant first appeared in 1970. By the 1980s it was replaced by the new generation T-64/T-72/T-80 tanks as the first-line Soviet main battle tank.

I must have missed your point?

[garyfanclub]

I think he's trying to say that the Soviet tanks the US faced in the Gulf War (the first one that is), were of about the same era in tank design. Albiet the Iraqi tanks were inferior to those of Russian manufacture.

[Javehn]

I wouldn't be looking any serious grain of information in that Forum .With all do respect , that's the last place to have any serious info , and the same about the article .


Ah , and by the way , that RedRussian guy who listen as Chechen terrorist . That's one bul****er who lives in Texas or something like that , and pretended to be Russian Special Ops who killed ****less Chechens . And he was the moderator on the forum - he was busted eventually (hence the ranking).

So , don't touch this forum even with a long 2 feet stick .

[Stl. boy]

I found that most of the people (pathfinder being an example) who voiced their opinion that was opposite the two moderators are now banned. Pathfinder only had 4 posts and was banned. Now thats a forum i want to be a part of. :bash:

[sudden_strike]

Ok I am no expert, but this is silly - "indestructible". Is there such a thing? Does there exist such a material?
It is irony itself, but there was this little multipurpose small plasma welder designed for the simple man to use at a home workshop to weld his kid`s bicycle or his cars exhaust pot, or cut a metal sheet for whatever purpose. The thing is called Multiplasm, is cheap, and was demonstrated on an international meeting of all kinds of techno gadgets. Two Amercans come along and want to have theyr laughs at how the Multiplasm will take on a chunk of that thermal insulator they use on the space shuttles. The thing was set as I recall on 25 amps, ans cut trough that insulator like a hot knife trough butter. This is a story, but I have seen it and used it mysel to cut everything from chrome-vanadium and A4 ss, to ceramic plates.
Now you imagine a explosive charge that releases THOUSANDS of kilowatts in one split second, and just how do some people picture anything laughing it off? So ok, if an rpg goes two feet deep it still does not really hurt an abrams, but it DOES damage it. The undefeatable abrams bursted in flames as a museum-exhibit soviet RPG made a small hole in its engine block.
No I am not bashing americans, I am simply trying to say that nothing is impossible, and you should not believe in myths. Russians did, and they saw as I recall 23 tanks resting in peace (or in pieces) on the Minutka square, ans as far as I understand the only things americans have not seen yet are the mistakes Russians made in grozny, when dosens of men shoot rpgs for every corner, and eventually destroy the tank.
I say that just to make things like that clear let them put, for the interest of finding out who`s best, the fully equipped Abrams against a fully equipped t-90.

[Saranof]

Why not try the abrams against an enemy who can fight back, like a leopard 2, och Merkava?

[UoUo]

Why not try the abrams against an enemy who can fight back, like a leopard 2, och Merkava?

Just wait few years until our Merkava will kick Egept M1a1.

[obd]

Hey guys dont worry about it!!! Let those Chechen scum think that a normal RPG-7 round is gonna take down an M1a1 like they took down T-72's in Grozny........Then, when those bastards come to Baghdad and try to put a hole in one of our tanks they will get a load of the new anti personel round the M1a1 can now fire..........

Or better yet, let them be setting up on an Ma1a and then get pounded by small arms fire and coax like that Iraqi scum on that video posted a week ago!!! Ah man, I laugh every time I see that dumb ass terrorist sit there in the middle of the street like that and then get torn to shreads by good old MG fire.........

Which reminds me, Chechens are said to be rather crafty and smart fighters at least as far as when the Russians speak of them, and I for one believe the Russian reports......I have also read several Chechen accounts of the "Battle of Grozny" and other battles in Chechnya and they do fight hard and use good tactics.........

But the Chechens should have learned thier lesson in A-stan when they came up against professional volunteer troops with a score to settle.......American soldiers wasted those Chechen ****s by the hundreds.......I remmember one news article when it first came out that Chechens jihadi wannabe's had come to A-stan.......a Green Beret had taken a notebook off a Chechen he had just given a third eye to and the notebook contained VERY detailed analysis of Ameican tactics, strengths, and weaknesses.......Overall, the Green Beret, who had previous combat experience, was highly impressed with this Chechen........

Too bad the Chechens arnt smart enough to realize they dont stand a chance against us.......I hope Russia thanks us for killing all those bastard Chechens as each one we kill in A-stan and Iraq means one less suicide bomber the Russians have to face in Chechnya........

Oh yeah, since it goes both ways: Thank you to brave Russian troops who go to war in Chechnya and kill bastard Islamist militants........Checnya has become a haven for Islamists and I therefore support Russia 150%% in taking them down........

[Praetorian 05]

Just a note for you; the RPG has been upgraded many times since the Version 7. The 7 is 60s technology.

[Operation Ivy]

Why not try the abrams against an enemy who can fight back, like a leopard 2, och Merkava? :roll:

Yea the Abrams and its tank crews couldnt handle a real enemy, theres no way wecould match up against a Leo or Merk :roll:

I mean the Leo has just seen so much action and is such a better tank that the Abrams has no chance at all :roll:

[A Soldier]

Whatever Ivy says people listen.............. he is the only Abrams tank expert that I know

[Operation Ivy]

Whatever Ivy says people listen.............. he is the only Abrams tank expert that I know

i wish, ask catdat if u want real info :D

[Sayeret]

http://www.rfforces.net/viewtopic.php?t=574&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I actually wrote to the moderators on the site that they are too biased and that they shouldn't cheer when people are killed by terrorists.

[perdurabo]

the best part :) i don't know where he took this numbers :lol:


M1A1/M1A1HA/M1A2 are the most "naked" of all modern tanks.

Protection:

M1- 400 vs KE 600 vs HEAT
M1A1- 450 vs KE 700 vs HEAT
M1A1HA- 600 vs KE 1150 vs HEAT
Leopard 2A4 - 700 vs KE 1000 vs HEAT
M1A2- 760 vs KE 1400 vs HEAT
Lacrec- 800 vs KE 1600 vs HEAT
M1A2SEP- 840 vs KE 1400 vs HEAT
Leopard 2A5- 870 vs KE 1500 vs HEAT
Challanger 2- 960 vs KE 1700 vs HEAT
Leo 2A6 may be as high as 1000mm vs KE.

Now compare to Russian tanks:

T-72B - 530 vs KE 620 vs HEAT
T-72BV- 580 vs KE 1120 vs HEAT
T-80B- 550 vs KE 650 vs HEAT
T-80BV- 600 vs KE 1150 vs HEAT
T-72BM- 780 vs KE 1220 vs HEAT
T-80U- 820 vs KE 1350 vs HEAT
T-90- 1000 vs KE 1600 vs HEAT

[Pandy]

You guys didn't hear about the Cobra letting off it's full load of arms against an M1A2 in Iraq, the crew left the tank with a good ringing in their ears? If M1A2 can hold up against about 300-500 rounds of 30mm, along with about 5 some tows plus two dozen rockets... thing can take a pounding.... the tank was useless thou but the crew was saved.

[A Soldier]

Damn!!!!! woot woot woot

[Herrmannek]

THe true is...

















































out there...

[talib_killa34]

Hey guys dont worry about it!!! Let those Chechen scum think that a normal RPG-7 round is gonna take down an M1a1 like they took down T-72's in Grozny........Then, when those bastards come to Baghdad and try to put a hole in one of our tanks they will get a load of the new anti personel round the M1a1 can now fire..........

Or better yet, let them be setting up on an Ma1a and then get pounded by small arms fire and coax like that Iraqi scum on that video posted a week ago!!! Ah man, I laugh every time I see that dumb ass terrorist sit there in the middle of the street like that and then get torn to shreads by good old MG fire.........

Which reminds me, Chechens are said to be rather crafty and smart fighters at least as far as when the Russians speak of them, and I for one believe the Russian reports......I have also read several Chechen accounts of the "Battle of Grozny" and other battles in Chechnya and they do fight hard and use good tactics.........

But the Chechens should have learned thier lesson in A-stan when they came up against professional volunteer troops with a score to settle.......American soldiers wasted those Chechen ****s by the hundreds.......I remmember one news article when it first came out that Chechens jihadi wannabe's had come to A-stan.......a Green Beret had taken a notebook off a Chechen he had just given a third eye to and the notebook contained VERY detailed analysis of Ameican tactics, strengths, and weaknesses.......Overall, the Green Beret, who had previous combat experience, was highly impressed with this Chechen........

Too bad the Chechens arnt smart enough to realize they dont stand a chance against us.......I hope Russia thanks us for killing all those bastard Chechens as each one we kill in A-stan and Iraq means one less suicide bomber the Russians have to face in Chechnya........

Oh yeah, since it goes both ways: Thank you to brave Russian troops who go to war in Chechnya and kill bastard Islamist militants........Checnya has become a haven for Islamists and I therefore support Russia 150%% in taking them down........


Hell Yeah!!! woot

[rob]

holy **** i just read that stuff,

i wonder if those are the people that will go on to win a darwin award.

[Praetorian 05]

Everyone is forgetting the main part of the M1 series........

The American Tankers lazin and blazin with them. They are the part that kicks ass!
A tank is like any other weapon on the battlefield. It's effectiveness is only as good as the operator. What has led to the mass destruction of the enemy is the fact that have not been able to out maneuver our Armored Forces. Every armored vehicle has it's Achilles Heel. The enemy has never been able to exploit it, when facing American firepower.

[chucky555]

Almost all of the Iraqi tanks I saw around Baghdad were destroyed by the Airforce or Apaches before we ever got there. In Southern Iraq (where all the T55 and T62s were), they were just flat-out abandoned. I test drove a T-55 for kicks, it sure makes your teeth chatter.

[Steel21]

1) The engine- It burns too much fuel. It took up too much room. Most of the pack is the transmission.

2) The trackpads wear out under 1500 miles.

3) The firecontrol is outdated, especially on the M1A1

4) The GPS has only one eye-hole, WTF? couldnt they built a screen like on the M1A2 SEP? Or how about a 2 eye like on the leo?

5) The 50Cal MG is too hard to traverse realistically. I want a RWS.

6) The crew compartment is cramped. Maybe I should stop lifting weights, but alot of it is taken up but 70's tech. Most of the electronic can be shrunken today to the size of a DVD player.

7) The Caddilacs and TC override is a bit odd. I want one with a built in yoke. So all i have to do is press a button and it zooms, then I can track it with my thumb.

8) alot of tanks have auto tracking now. Kinda like the Apache Longbow. The Chinese ZTZ-99, Japanese T-90 are rumor to have them.

9) Laser sensors, so I can tell when im being lazed

10) Torsion bars.. coulnt they made it 25% bigger so they dont break as often?

11) I wonder if we could built the next tank so that the ammo compartment can be detached and replaced as a single block by some automated system. So that the reload will be alot faster. So then they will have to built a vehicle that is a dedicated tank support vehicle that can refuel, resupply, tow, lift pac.. all in one? And the 1st 3 tasks should be able to be done in coomplete button up.

12) Have a better TC station so I can see out without being name tape defolade. How about a degital camera linked to a visor?

[Russian Texan]

Hey guys dont worry about it!!! Let those Chechen scum think that a normal RPG-7 round is gonna take down an M1a1 like they took down T-72's in Grozny........Then, when those bastards come to Baghdad and try to put a hole in one of our tanks they will get a load of the new anti personel round the M1a1 can now fire..........

Or better yet, let them be setting up on an Ma1a and then get pounded by small arms fire and coax like that Iraqi scum on that video posted a week ago!!! Ah man, I laugh every time I see that dumb ass terrorist sit there in the middle of the street like that and then get torn to shreads by good old MG fire.........

Which reminds me, Chechens are said to be rather crafty and smart fighters at least as far as when the Russians speak of them, and I for one believe the Russian reports......I have also read several Chechen accounts of the "Battle of Grozny" and other battles in Chechnya and they do fight hard and use good tactics.........

But the Chechens should have learned thier lesson in A-stan when they came up against professional volunteer troops with a score to settle.......American soldiers wasted those Chechen ****s by the hundreds.......I remmember one news article when it first came out that Chechens jihadi wannabe's had come to A-stan.......a Green Beret had taken a notebook off a Chechen he had just given a third eye to and the notebook contained VERY detailed analysis of Ameican tactics, strengths, and weaknesses.......Overall, the Green Beret, who had previous combat experience, was highly impressed with this Chechen........

Too bad the Chechens arnt smart enough to realize they dont stand a chance against us.......I hope Russia thanks us for killing all those bastard Chechens as each one we kill in A-stan and Iraq means one less suicide bomber the Russians have to face in Chechnya........

Oh yeah, since it goes both ways: Thank you to brave Russian troops who go to war in Chechnya and kill bastard Islamist militants........Checnya has become a haven for Islamists and I therefore support Russia 150%% in taking them down........

And I thought those morronic reports that I had to look through at work today were "out there"...
WOW :roll:

[Teh Little Space Monkeh]

Yeah, the Army Canceled the godsend SEP program for that Hunka-junk Stryker. The Army's Leaders need to get their **** sorted out. But the M1 Abrams was designed to combat T-80's/T-90's not state of the art European Tanks. What we need to do it screw the FCS program, Re-instate the M1A2 SEP Program and work on a BETTER Tank, More efficient than the M1A2. Thats just my two cents.

[mattnwnc03]

"those lying american pigs dogs" .......i love hearing people fromother nations trying to put us down, cracks me up .hell we never said the tank was indestructable.hell after the loss of tank crews in ww2 in the sherman thats why we have the m-1.plus to fight the russians which never happened.

[usa320]

Did you notice that a certain Uninen is an administrator there?

That speaks volumes about the credibility of that site, forum and article.

[chucky555]

During the war, I saw Abrams tanked knocked out, in fact, I'd paste a few of my photos on here if I knew how.
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