Han Chinese launch revenge attacks on Uighurs

[bono]

A new wave of violence hit the capital of the Chinese region of Xinjiang today as thousands of angry Han Chinese rampaged through Urumqi, many smashing up Uighur stores and seeking vengeance for Han deaths at the weekend.

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/07/fresh-protests-break-out-china)

[LordKitchener]

Chicom PR drones ASSEMBLE!!!!

[Laworkerbee]

State police and paramilitaries deploy by the thousands in a bid to contain escalating tensions in Urumqi, in the worst outbreak of ethnic violence China has seen in years.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/laworkerbee/47914462.jpgHan Chinese marchers carry sticks and shovels today in Urumqi, in northwest China.

Reporting from Urumqi, China, and Beijing -- Thousands of Chinese, many wielding sticks, clubs and knives, marched today through Uighur neighborhoods of the northwestern city of Urumqi chanting "blood for blood'' and singing the Chinese national anthem.

Chinese police and paramilitaries deployed by the thousands struggled to contain escalating tensions in the worst outbreak of ethnic violence the country has seen in years. The marchers, who appeared to be ethnic Han, the majority in China, were demanding revenge for rioting by the Turkic-speaking Uighurs on Sunday in which 156 died.

``Let the government take care of this,'' pleaded a local Communist official, Li Zhi, who stood on top of a van, shouting through a bullhorn. When he continued, "Han and Uighurs need to live in harmony,'' the crowd jeered him.

Loud booms, which some witnesses said were tear-gas canisters, could be heard in the distance although it was unclear who they were directed against. Earlier in the day, Uighur women and children had marched in protest against the arrests of about 1,400 Uighur men.

By the afternoon, the streets of Urumqi -- a city of 2 million people that the Chinese government had extolled as a showpiece of ethnic harmony -- were gripped with an air of palpable fear.

Families rushed, and stayed, indoors. Shopkeepers sent their employees home and barricaded storefront windows. Taxi drivers refused to pick up passengers.

Roving mobs of Han Chinese -- men, women and teenagers -- wandered the streets with weapons they had managed to pick up. A giggling teenage girl carried a board with a rusty nail protruding from it. A middle-aged woman wielded a chair frame. Others held cleavers, baseball bats, and garden hoses.

The escalating violence belies China's claim of having quickly subdued the violence, which began Sunday afternoon after what was supposed to be a peaceful march by Uighurs about discrimination in the workplace. The Uighurs are an ethnic Turkic people, predominantly Muslims, who claim what the Chinese call Xinjiang as their traditional homeland and often bristle at Chinese rule.

Chinese authorities accuse Uighur rioters of going on a savage rampage Sunday in Urumqi in which civilians were pulled out of cars and shops, beaten and stabbed for no other reason that being Han, the ethnic majority in China.

The rioting was possibly the deadliest incident of social unrest in China since the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. Although Xinjiang has for years been ****e to sporadic riots, bombings and gang violence, Urumqi itself -- a city of 2 million people -- had been held up by the Chinese as a showplace of ethnic harmony. That myth was punctured by the violence that erupted Sunday.

It was not yet clear whether any one group suffered the brunt of Sunday's violence, nor how many security officers were killed or injured. Uighur voices have been largely drowned out by China's censors, who have blocked Twitter, Facebook and various Uighur sites that might offer competing versions of what happened.

There were signs that news of the riots had led to additional protests in other Uighur communities in Xinjiang province. State media reported that authorities dispersed about 200 demonstrators Monday in Kashgar, about 900 miles west of Urumqi. The protesters had gathered at the Id Kah Mosque, the largest mosque in China, before authorities secured the area, the reports said.

Uighurs say they were trying to hold a peaceful protest Sunday afternoon at People's Square over the killing last month of two young Uighur men in Guangdong and that it turned violent after the paramilitary forces intervened.

Demonstrators today in Urumqi complained bitterly about their treatment by police, a recurring grievance for young Uighurs.

The inevitable comparison was to last year's rioting in Lhasa in which years of Tibetan grievances erupted into rioting. At least 19 people were killed, according to Chinese authorities, while Tibetans say the figure is much higher.

Like the Tibetans, the Uighurs are angry over an influx of Han migrants, who they believe have taken away land and jobs and are endangering their languages and religion. Tibetans, who are Buddhists, and Uighurs, who are Muslim, are barred from observing many religious customs if they work as civil servants. For example, Uighurs who work in government jobs say they cannot freely observe the fasts required during the Ramadan period.

Urumqi has been under a virtual lockdown since the violence erupted.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-china-riots7-2009jul07,0,627990.story

[Henry's Fork]

So.....

Disgruntled Han Chinese start this whole mess with making up lies about rape...now they are seeking revenge for something they created?

Business as usual in the Chicom denial dept.

[Super Sheep]

Disgruntled Han Chinese start this whole mess with making up lies about rape...now they are seeking revenge for something they created?

And how would you know this absolutely for sure? Quit talking from your emotions and look at this logically.

[Mordoror]

Business as usual in the Chicom denial dept.

funny as everything coming from China is regarded as suspicious (a lot of time with reason but still)
25 years ago almost the same thing occured in your state in LA
the amount of casualty was even higher

you should know that sometimes you don't need much more than a badly filmed video or some rumor to spark a huge fire if all conditions are present. And obvisouly they were...

ethnic tension are a scourge anywhere and it s up to the local police and politician to first calm down the things and after try to improve the situation locally

[Panchito12]

Notice seem on wall in downtown Urumqi:

"Do not engage in fighting or scuffling, or it may bring you 10 days in detainment, 500 yuan in fine, 1,000 yuan for medicare, and cause worries from your family, your own bleeding, plus adding to personal enemies and increasing your regrets."

Don't want to add any of those personal enemies.

You may wake up regretting that you have some fat Kung Fu Panda pissed at you.p-)

[Henry's Fork]

funny as everything coming from China is regarded as suspicious (a lot of time with reason but still)
25 years ago almost the same thing occured in your state in LA
the amount of casualty was even higher

you should know that sometimes you don't need much more than a badly filmed video or some rumor to spark a huge fire if all conditions are present. And obvisouly they were...

ethnic tension are a scourge anywhere and it s up to the local police and politician to first calm down the things and after try to improve the situation locally

The LA riots were becuase of some Police officers beating the sh1t out of a guy.

Not because some looser had to make up lies to save face when he got fired from his job.

Apples and Alligators, get it straight.

[WCF.KAS]

funny as everything coming from China is regarded as suspicious (a lot of time with reason but still)
25 years ago almost the same thing occured in your state in LA
the amount of casualty was even higher

you should know that sometimes you don't need much more than a badly filmed video or some rumor to spark a huge fire if all conditions are present. And obvisouly they were...

ethnic tension are a scourge anywhere and it s up to the local police and politician to first calm down the things and after try to improve the situation locally

51 people died in the LA riots, a third of the deathtoll of this incident

[Henry's Fork]

And how would you know this absolutely for sure? Quit talking from your emotions and look at this logically.

Logic?

THIS IS CHINAAA!!!1111111
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9725/maojordancropped.th.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/maojordancropped.jpg/)

[Laworkerbee]

funny as everything coming from China is regarded as suspicious (a lot of time with reason but still)
25 years ago almost the same thing occured in your state in LA
the amount of casualty was even higher

Why is it you Euro's love bringing up the Los Angeles riots so much? I mean you've got to be ****ing kidding me, our riot got good coverage is all and was kids play when compared your regular car burning spectacles in France and Germany.

[Mordoror]

The LA riots were becuase of some Police officers beating the sh1t out of a guy.

Not because some looser had to make up lies to save face when he got fired from his job.

the initial event is not important (could have been Rodney King or another guy two weeks later or two weeks earlier)
the same in China

what i want to say is that if you have already angry people for several reasons (economical status, segregation, rejected minorities, poor work and education) you need only a slight event (at a state level : i mean after all Rodney King wasn't the first guy to be beaten by policemen and not the last, as well as that Chinese was not the first to say false accusations leading to some innocent of other ethnicity death) to lit a big huge fire

frustrated people are like a pressure cooker

they boil, they boil but if there is a slight scratch in the pressure cooker , this last one explodes

that was clearly expectable and nobody should condemn the police forces to try to separate the Han and Uigurs and try to avoid more casualties

what is condemnable is the political recovery of the event by the PPRC and the previous "civil peace" work that was not done before

not the work of the riot units (at least today..... now if it is proven that they fired with live bullets purposely in the crowd yesterday, it is all a different matter .....)


51 people died in the LA riots, a third of the deathtoll of this incident

i stand corrected i always thought they were 91

[Bohemoth]

Why is it you Euro's love bringing up the Los Angeles riots so much? I mean you've got to be ****ing kidding me, our riot got good coverage is all and was kids play when compared your regular car burning spectacles in France and Germany.
Wake up man. Our Police don't shoot live rounds into rioters.
And those rioters or better punks just like a good fight with the Police, but they don't gather to lynch some innocent people. That's a huuuge difference to what's going on in China.

Next thing you tell me is we should learn Democracy from a Communist state.
What egocentric and arrogant chaps. :slap:

[Henry's Fork]

the initial event is not important (could have been Rodney King or another guy two weeks later or two weeks earlier)
the same in China

what i want to say is that if you have already angry people for several reasons (economical status, segregation, rejected minorities, poor work and education) you need only a slight event (at a state level : i mean after all Rodney King wasn't the first guy to be beaten by policemen and not the last, as well as that Chinese was not the first to say false accusations leading to some innocent of other ethnicity death) to lit a big huge fire

frustrated people are like a pressure cooker

they boil, they boil but if there is a slight scratch in the pressure cooker , this last one explodes

that was clearly expectable and nobody should condemn the police forces to try to separate the Han and Uigurs and try to avoid more casualties

what is condemnable is the political recovery of the event by the PPRC and the previous "civil peace" work that was not done before

not the work of the riot units (at least today..... now if it is proven that they fired with live bullets purposely in the crowd yesterday, it is all a different matter .....)



i stand corrected i always thought they were 91

I agree with your cooking idea. A disgruntled pot will boil.

But using the LA riots in comparisson to the Chinese riots is lazy. Its like saying all riots are the same, when they are not. The only thing riots share are anger, pain and destruction.

[Laworkerbee]

Wake up man. Our Police don't shoot live rounds into rioters.
And those rioters or better punks just like a good fight with the Police, but they don't gather to lynch some innocent people. That's a huuuge difference to what's going on in China.

Next thing you tell me is we should learn Democracy from a Communist state.
What egocentric and arrogant chaps. :slap:

What the **** are you talking about? I'm not comparing China to Europe, I'm answering Mordoror's post regarding the Los Angeles riots which have no God damned bearing in this thread anyhow.

[Bolshoy]

Revenge?

It was Uyghurs who died....WTH?

[Henry's Fork]

Bee, turn your sarcasm meter on bro. ;)

[Laworkerbee]

Bee, turn your sarcasm meter on bro. ;)

Micheal Jackson's funeral is just absolutely ruining my day and the internet is slower than hell.

Fine, I'm making a drink at my desk right now, work will have to wait until tomorrow.

:|

[Mordoror]

Why is it you Euro's love bringing up the Los Angeles riots so much? I mean you've got to be ****ing kidding me, our riot got good coverage is all and was kids play when compared your regular car burning spectacles in France and Germany.


roflrofl

ok just to fix it (although it is off topic)
everybody is jumping on the chinese riot police because it is hem let me guess : chinese bad bad chicom in uniform

nobody jumps on US riot police when a riot leads to death
(i am talking about US police for comparison because on this board the most chicom basher are from USA)

that's just to show the bias and the level of the thread
you cannot just judge something serious happening under the only eye of "those guys are evil because they are chinese policemen"
that is on the edge of racism

com'on a riot is something very difficult to control
especially ethnic ones were people hate each others and want to slice each other throats
casualties in that case can and do occur, being in USA, China or any other country (except in France where our policemen are more disciplinated and do not shoot frantically in the crowd p-))

now what i said doesn't means that i agree the whole PRC policy with minorities
but then let's discuss that instead of bashing the police that obviously today has done its work by making a curtain between Han and Uigurs and thus avoided more bloodshed (and i am precisely talking about today, not yesterday where some assesments say that they purposely shot in the demonstrating crowd ... which is of course highly condemnable .....)

[seraosha]

Why do you have to antagonize our little buddies in Europe, Bee?

Drink one for me man.

[Ordie]

Mobs spread ethnic strife in western China
By WILLIAM FOREMAN – 38 minutes ago
URUMQI, China (AP) — Sobbing Muslim women scuffled with riot police, and Chinese men wielding steel pipes, meat cleavers and sticks rampaged through the streets Tuesday as ethnic tensions worsened in China's oil-rich Xinjiang territory, forcing officials to declare a curfew.
The new violence in Xinjiang's capital erupted only a few hours after the city's top officials told reporters the streets in Urumqi were returning to normal following a riot that killed 156 people Sunday. The officials also said more than 1,000 suspects had been rounded up since the spasm of attacks by Muslim Uighurs against Han Chinese, the ethnic majority.
The chaos returned when hundreds of young Han men seeking revenge began gathering on sidewalks with kitchen knives, clubs, shovels and wooden poles. They spent most of the afternoon marching through the streets, smashing windows of Muslim restaurants and trying to push past police cordons protecting minority neighborhoods. Riot police successfully fought them back with volleys of tear gas and a massive show of force.
At one point, the mob chased a boy who looked like he was a Uighur. The youth, who appeared to be about 12, climbed a tree, and the crowd tried to whack his legs with their sticks as the terrified boy cried. He was eventually allowed to leave unharmed as the rioters ran off to focus on another target.
After the crowds thinned out, a curfew was announced from 9 p.m. to 8 a.m. Police cars cruised the streets in the evening, telling people to go home, and they complied.
The ugly scenes earlier in the day highlighted how far away the Communist Party was from one of its top goals: creating a "harmonious society." The unrest was also an embarrassment for the Chinese leadership, which is getting ready to celebrate the 60th anniversary of Communist rule and wants to show it has created a stable country.
Harmony has been hard to achieve in Xinjiang, a rugged region three times the size of Texas with deserts, mountains and the promise of huge oil and natural gas reserves. Xinjiang is also the homeland for 9 million Uighurs (****ounced WEE-gers), a Turkic-speaking group.
Many Uighurs believe the Han Chinese, who have been flooding into the region in recent years, are trying to crowd them out. They often accuse the Han of prejudice and waging campaigns to restrict their religion and culture.
The Han Chinese allege the Uighurs are backward and ungrateful for all the economic development and modernization the Han have brought to Xinjiang. They also complain that the Uighurs' religion — a moderate form of Sunni Islam — keeps them from blending into Chinese society, which is officially communist and largely secular.
"We have been good to them. We take good care of them," said Liu Qiang, a middle-aged Han Chinese businessman who joined the marchers. "But the Uighurs are stupid. They think we have more money than they do because we're unfair to them."
In other violence Tuesday, witnesses said groups of about 10 Uighur men with bricks and knives attacked Han Chinese passers-by and shop-owners outside the city's southern railway station, until police ran them off, witnesses said.
"Whenever the rioters saw someone on the street, they would ask 'Are you a Uighur?' If they kept silent or couldn't answer in the Uighur language, they would get beaten or killed," said a restaurant worker near the station, who only gave his surname, Ma.
It was not immediately clear if anyone was killed in those reported attacks.
The authorities have been trying to control the unrest by blocking the Internet and limiting access to texting services on cell phones. At the same time, police have generally been allowing foreign media to cover the tensions.
On Tuesday, officials arranged a tour for journalists of sites that were attacked by Uighur rioters on Sunday. But the public relations event backfired spectacularly during the tour's first stop — a car dealership in southern Urumqi where several autos were burned by rioters.
After interviewing people at the business, the journalists crossed the road to a Uighur market, where angry women in traditional, brightly colored headscarves began to gather.
One woman who gave her name as Aynir said police arrived Monday evening and arrested about 300 men. The authorities were looking for men with fresh wounds or other signs they joined the rioting.
"My husband was detained at gunpoint. They were hitting people. They were stripping people naked. My husband was scared so he locked the door, but the police broke down the door and took him away," Aynir said. "He had nothing to do with the riots."
The crowd of women swelled to about 200 and they began marching in the street, chanting, "Freedom!" and "Release our children!" They were quickly sandwiched by hundreds of police on both ends of the road, along with trucks with water cannons. Some women screamed at the security forces and jostled the men, who were armed with assault rifles, tear gas guns, shields and sticks. The crowd dispersed after a standoff that lasted 90 minutes.
Uighurs have said this week's rioting was triggered by the June 25 deaths of Uighur factory workers killed in a brawl in the southern Chinese city of Shaoguan. State-run media have said two workers died, but many Uighurs believe more were killed and said the incident was an example of how little the government cared about them.
In the days that followed, graphic photos spread on the Internet purportedly showing at least a half-dozen bodies of Uighurs, with Han Chinese standing over them, arms raised in victory. Expunged from some sites, the photos were posted and reposted, some on overseas servers beyond the reach of censors.
In a sign the government was trying to address communal grievances, the official Xinhua News Agency said Tuesday that 13 people had been arrested in the factory fight, including three from Xinjiang. Two others were arrested for spreading rumors on the Internet that Xinjiang employees had raped two female workers, the report said, citing a local police official.
Chinese officials have largely dismissed claims that the Urumqi rioting was caused by long-simmering resentments among the Uighurs. They said the crowds were stirred up by U.S.-exiled Uighur activist Rebiya Kadeer and her overseas followers, who used the Internet to spread rumors.
"Using violence, making rumors, and distorting facts are what cowards do because they are afraid to see social stability and ethnic solidarity in Xinjiang," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in Beijing during a blistering verbal attack on Kadeer, who has denied the allegations.
Li Zhi, Urumqi's highest-ranking Communist Party official, also railed against Kadeer as he addressed the angry Han mobs. Standing on an armored police vehicle, Li pumped his fist as he shouted through a megaphone, "Strike down Rebiya!"
Source:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j794twyjYyjeOIdsKWwzCUhsgvUAD999PFJG3


Li Zhi, Urumqi's highest-ranking Communist Party official, also railed against Kadeer as he addressed the angry Han mobs. Standing on an armored police vehicle, Li pumped his fist as he shouted through a megaphone, "Strike down Rebiya

Given that the highest ranking CCP member is instigating the mob and blaming a Uighur exile, gives me a feeling that nobody is in charge of the situation.

It's going to be a matter of time before the PLA and CCP Central Committee going to take charge of local affairs.

Li Zhi, the local CCP leader, will probably have his head on the platter for allowing the conditions to fester, riots to happen, and failing to take charge.

[Ordie]

What we have now is a police riot.

[Ulytau]

Also as i heard current Chinese Media became problem about this issues too...

RIP to innocent people :( and i hope our Foreign Affairs interest to do something especially about the solve.

[Mordoror]

It's going to be a matter of time before the PLA and CCP Central Committee going to take charge of local affairs. x2

as you said in another thread there won't be a long time waiting to have plenty of heads falling either Uighur or Han
the Central Commitee cannot afford an ethnic upraising, it is too much a green light for tensions in other parts of China

[Ordie]

Also as i heard current Chinese Media became problem about this issues too...

RIP to innocent people :( and i hope our Foreign Affairs interest to do something especially about the solve.

Dont expect much from Beijing. They guard thier soverignty very closely and consider this as a domestic affair. They don't expect nor want help from Ankara.

The root of the problem was that images of two Uighurs murdered by Han Chinese with victory fists over the dead bodies in Southern China went viral throughout China and the World through cellphones.

By the time the government put a stop, it was too late. That lead towards the tragic events in Urumqi.

The local Xinjiang CCP tried to stop internet access and shutting sites, but that only compounded the problems as vocal rumors started spread quickly among people with no internet access.

[Blue_0]

The impressive part is the police supporting the Hans in there crackdown on the Uighurs. Nice final stage to the ethnic cleasing!

*They are effectively driving the Uighurs out of their own homeland with force

-- Bluelight

[deagle]

like always, its the few that probably paint a broader negative image of the general public.

[Ordie]

Central Commitee cannot afford an ethnic upraising, it is too much a geen light for tensions in another part of China

Correct.

The CCP legitimacy is at stake, especially with the upcoming 60th anniversary of the PRC in October.

What's most specifically at stake is Hu Jintao's "Harmonious Society" initiative. This was the plan to encourage development and aid to China's rural and provencial populations.

Much of this is hampered by the CCP Local cadres corruption and mis-management.

[Bolshoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uN32RSb92w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.donanimhaber.com%2Fm_32892291%2Ftm.htm&feature=player_embedded

[Ulytau]

Dont expect much from Beijing. They guard thier soverignty very closely and consider this as a domestic affair. They don't expect nor want help from Ankara.

The root of the problem was that images of two Uighurs murdered by Han Chinese with victory fists over the dead bodies in Southern China went viral throughout China and the World through cellphones.

By the time the government put a stop, it was too late. That lead towards the tragic events in Urumqi.

The local Xinjiang CCP tried to stop internet access and shutting sites, but that only compounded the problems as vocal rumors started spread quickly among people with no internet access.

I wonder how current Chinese government can stay like that okay maybe they can stop access in China but as i know millions of Chinese people studying at other countries and most important part when Hong Kong to be part of China people of Hong Kong start to be really effective to other people i think.

GRAPHIC FOOTAGE WARNING

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8136400.stm

Comments of a Han Chinese :/

[Mordoror]

^^^^ You forgot A BIG WARNING
this footage is extremely disturbing and graphic !!!

[Fade]

^ jeez. Not for the faint of heart.

[d'artagnan]

Hey Turkish dude, get lost, it's none of ur damn biz, take care of ur kurds first~~ dont mess wit us.

One sentense ive learned from my hebrew lesson:

Mavet LaUygurim!

Besides, if some dude write some false stories abt some other nationality stealing stuff, do you think it will become as serious as that? No..... Uygurs do have image problem. And I don't care if they wanna become like palestinians in gaza and west bank~ under our control.

And in 97 they started a riot themselves, and ppl just getting more and more fed up with them. I mean,for tibetans, they dont have a serious image problem, and i do think lots of ppl are willing to make changes so that things can become better. but uygurs, they just dont get any sympathy. Like one online commentators said: if theres any riot happens in china, i would want to know the reasons behind it and address it, except for xinjiang, just beat the crap out of them.

And it's not turkish-phobic thing, there are kazaks, uzbeks in the region as well, people are generally getting along well, since they are not happy with uygur either. as you see they are not helping them, and so its not mulism-phobic thing, the hui muslim chinese are victims again, alongside han chinese.

[Jiggy]

^ oh look, more racism from a chicom.

[Ordie]

I wonder how current Chinese government can stay like that okay maybe they can stop access in China but as i know millions of Chinese people studying at other countries and most important part when Hong Kong to be part of China people of Hong Kong start to be really effective to other people i think.

The Chinese Government is awre of the leaky Great Firewall as people have access through proxy servers abroad. The best they can do is target information witten in Chinese within China.

As I said, no amount of information control and censorship can stop verbal rumors from spreading. Knowing rumors, they get exaggerated as they pass from person to person.

[Ordie]

ppl just getting more and more fed up with them. I mean,for tibetans, they dont have a serious image problem, and i do think lots of ppl are willing to make changes so that things can become better. but uygurs, they just dont get any sympathy. Like one online commentators said: if theres any riot happens in china, i would want to know the reasons behind it and address it, except for xinjiang, just beat the crap out of them.

Are you saying that since the world has no sympathy for the Uighurs, they should be beaten into submission?

If this is the case then the Uighurs have nothing to lose. That's a dangerous proposition since you're dealing with a cornered animal.

May I remind you that at one time, Chinese Red Army did not have sympathy of the world including the Soviets. It too was targeted, beaten, cornered and chased across China during the Long March.

[Laworkerbee]

Hey Turkish dude, get lost, it's none of ur damn biz, take care of ur kurds first~~ dont mess wit us.

What's wrong big boy, can't handle a frank discussion about your country? You Chin's really need to grow a pair of balls so you can discuss subjects without crying like little girls.

[dava]

I otherwise am quite convinced most members here would be quite glad if the europeans would do the same thing to their 'unruly' ethnic groups. Just read the 'Losing Europe to Islam'-thread.
Moreover, there was little love here for the Uighurs released from Guantanomo some time ago.
However, once they take up the arms against the Chinese, they are the good guys again.

I hope one day the same thing will happen in Europe. Ethnic minorities have gone far enough in bullying the majority.

[Laworkerbee]

I otherwise am quite convinced most members here would be quite glad if the europeans would do the same thing to their 'unruly' ethnic groups. Just read the 'Losing Europe to Islam'-thread.
Moreover, there was little love here for the Uighurs released from Guantanomo some time ago.
However, once they take up the arms against the Chinese, they are the good guys again.

I hope one day the same thing will happen in Europe. Ethnic minorities have gone far enough in bullying the majority.

So other than trying to derail the thread what's your point?

[d'artagnan]

Are you saying that since the world has no sympathy for the Uighurs, they should be beaten into submission?

If this is the case then the Uighurs have nothing to lose. That's a dangerous proposition since you're dealing with a cornered animal.

May I remind you that at one time, Chinese Red Army did not have sympathy of the world including the Soviets. It too was targeted, beaten, cornered and chased across China during the Long March.


Frankly speaking i dont care about red army and their long march, and whatever their stories are. I dont like communists so technically you are talking to the wrong person. and don't if it would be better if they were emilinated by the nationalists... but thats just another story.

Well, i do think the guy who spread the word is very lame, but just think about this: do you think there will be a riot if someone is spreading a libel about hui/mongolian or others etc.? I don't think so. It's a long period of uygur intimidation to other ppl in coastal china, and it's true every nation has its share of bad ppl, but they just have way too many and it's becoming extraudinarily annoying to others. So once we are as pissed as the israelis towards palestinians and you will know the results.

[Ordie]

Interesting,

We got new Chinese posters, but none of the usual suspects.
I know Shuimo, Scriptable are on "vacation"

theMiddlepath, solvent, Reno are silent

[d'artagnan]

What's wrong big boy, can't handle a frank discussion about your country? You Chin's really need to grow a pair of balls so you can discuss subjects without crying like little girls.

You turks really need to get some balls so that you can keep bowing to EU while they dont like u whatsoever. Sif u guys are some major power. Sigh, no wonder we supported Greece in the past~~

[d'artagnan]

Interesting,

We got new Chinese posters, but none of the usual suspects.
I know Shuimo, Scriptable are on "vacation"

theMiddlepath, solvent, Reno are silent

Because posting is not all your life, and of coz if they are in xinjiang, the net is probably dead, and proxy will take forever~~

[Laworkerbee]

You turks really need to get some balls so that you can keep bowing to EU while they dont like u whatsoever. Sif u guys are some major power. Sigh, no wonder we supported Greece in the past~~

Update your dossier genius, I'm no Turk.

[dava]

So other than trying to derail the thread what's your point?

That it is quite hypocrite to suddenly get supportive of those 'poor' Uighurs when your country tortured some innocent Uighurs itself over the last years.

[Laworkerbee]

That it is quite hypocrite to suddenly get supportive of those 'poor' Uighurs when your country tortured some innocent Uighurs itself over the last years.

Further derailment, am I supposed to ask you to offer any kind of proof that the American government tortured poor Uighur terrorists?

I'm not playing that game, you can play by yourself as I'm sure you're used to.

[d'artagnan]

Update your dossier genius, I'm no Turk.

And sorry, watever, to uygurs, I'm more like Avigdor Lieberman, thoroughly fed up with them~

[Ordie]

I otherwise am quite convinced most members here would be quite glad if the europeans would do the same thing to their 'unruly' ethnic groups. Just read the 'Losing Europe to Islam'-thread.
Moreover, there was little love here for the Uighurs released from Guantanomo some time ago.
However, once they take up the arms against the Chinese, they are the good guys again.

I hope one day the same thing will happen in Europe. Ethnic minorities have gone far enough in bullying the majority.

I think the opposite is true.

This is a neighborhood of instablity.

Pakistan is in a civil war with the Taleban.
NATO and the Americans are fighting it out in Afghanistan.
Iran has a political crisis.
The US and Russia are becoming friends once again.
The Kyghiz gave an okay to stage American aircraft.

The last thing we need is a divided and instable China.

[Ordie]

And sorry, watever, to uygurs, I'm more like Avigdor Lieberman, thoroughly fed up with them~

Are you a nightclub bouncer too?

[4X4Driver]

Goddamn ...all you're doing is showing your real face to the world despite of all the so called advancement in your society. Gzengiz Han should have fixed the problem for the rest of the world when he had the chance.

Damn you ! :bash:

[Ordie]

Because posting is not all your life, and of coz if they are in xinjiang, the net is probably dead, and proxy will take forever~~

At least two of them are in Southeast Asia and at least one on "vacation" is in Beijing.

[d'artagnan]

I think the opposite is true.

This is a neighborhood of instablity.

Pakistan is in a civil war with the Taleban.
NATO and the Americans are fighting it out in Afghanistan.
Iran has a political crisis.
The US and Russia are becoming friends once again.
The Kyghiz gave an okay to stage American aircraft.

The last thing we need is a divided and instable China.


Then EU and US should keep their mouths closed. As I said, I am willing to address the problems tibetans have. But Uyghurs, nay~~ screw them, our generals in the 18 - 19 fought hard and endured Russian and British interference in gaining their geo political interests against us, and endured those lawless years when they thought they could "banish chinese" as if we can be dumped into the sea like wastewater? Bastards~~

[d'artagnan]

Are you a nightclub bouncer too?

Well, i am not soz sir, because it's not a well paid job.

[Jiggy]

whats really sad is all this is going to do is give the ccp more motivation and incentive to ethnically cleanse that region.

the real victims here are the Uyghurs.

[d'artagnan]

Goddamn chinks...all you're doing is showing your real face to the world despite of all the so called advancement in your society. Gzengiz Han should have fixed the problem for the rest of the world when he had the chance.

Damn you chinks :bash:

OH.. sinophobic, yeah who TF are u? sigh~~ sif u can anything~

Go back home and eat kebabs, turk domuzlar

or go ahead Osman wannabe, rage towards the east~~

[Laworkerbee]

Then EU and US should keep their mouths closed. As I said, I am willing to address the problems tibetans have. But Uyghurs, nay~~ screw them, our generals in the 18 - 19 fought hard and endured Russian and British interference in gaining their geo political interests against us, and endured those lawless years when they thought they could "banish chinese" as if we can be dumped into the sea like wastewater? Bastards~~

So much for Hu Jintao's "Harmonious Society" initiative. :|

[dava]

Further derailment, am I supposed to ask you to offer any kind of proof that the American government tortured poor Uighur terrorists?

I think there has been enough discussion on whether or not the 'interrogation tactics used at guantanomo' can be labelled as torture or not but as far as I know, it has been acknowledged that indeed torture took place there.
As there were recently some Uighurs released from Guantanomo. You can easily connect the dots right. Or you can try to make the case that the Uighurs got some exemption and lived a happy satisfying life in Guantanomo.
But then I am supposed to ask you any kind of proof that they indeed were awarded their full rights such as for example a fair trial?

[Mordoror]

that thread is flying at so much high level ........

[Ordie]

whats really sad is all this is going to do is give the ccp more motivation and incentive to ethnically cleanse that region.

the real victims here are the Uyghurs.

Its going to force the CCP to re-think how things are governed. From the outside they won't change immediately in reaction to violence.

Just as Tienanmen Square in 1989 led to increased economic and social reforms to placate the masses.

We may expect some sort of affirmative action or increased local control in minority areas. Perhaps, one country, many systems.

[Laworkerbee]

that thread is flying at so much high level ........

Quiet Frenchy.

Oh and Dava, go choke yourself.

[4X4Driver]

OH.. sinophobic, yeah who TF are u? sigh~~ sif u can anything~


To hell with you!

The East Turkistan will be freed!!!

[Ordie]

Then EU and US should keep their mouths closed.

I think we are.
Much of the global leadership reaction has been measured and had given deference to the status quo.

[Jiggy]

Perhaps, one country, many systems.

:|

i know you don't really believe that, but i guess some rely on hope more than others.

[4X4Driver]

Oh yeah~~ Show me~~ keep barking, and that will make us even more convinced that china needs Lieberman-ish figure to deal with Uyghurs. And for turkey, deal with ur armenian past before you come to us.


We are dealing and advancing...but you are no where near the civilization..all you're doing is exploting the westen moral with your cheap labor..you're days will end soon one day too..when the west comes to their sences again.

You keep barking and update yourself..we don't want EU.

[Mordoror]

Its going to force the CCP to re-think how things are governed. From the outside they won't change immediately in reaction to violence.

Just as Tienanmen Square in 1989 led to increased economic and social reforms to placate the masses.

We may expect some sort of affirmative action or increased local control in minority areas. Perhaps, one country, many systems.

the best they can do is to fire the local corrupted CCP members
but i don't think that there will be too many modifications in the systems
Chinese are long time ago focused on one united country

too many different systems (Hong Kong has already one which one too much for the CCP but it is a common interest deal) may lead to a falling appart of the whole country, beginning by the outside unstable borders (Xinjiang, Tibet) then to a clash between the riche (coastal) and poor (inner) provinces

rather than smoothing the control of the far away provinces i rather think that the central commitee will tighten the control in fact to avoid a "1919 - 1923 lord of war" syndrome ....

[Ordie]

To hell with you!

The East Turkistan will be freed!!!

I disagree.

If Xinjiang goes, so does Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan and the CCP from ruling China.

Then we'll have another century of humiliation and nationalism, only this time with nukes.

and the potential of 2.3 Billion people living within an unstable country which holds our debt.

[d'artagnan]

I think we are.
Much of the global leadership reaction has been measured and had given deference to the status quo.

Which is good.

I wouldnt be so hardline towards them if kazaks, uzbeks, tajiks are also rioting, they are the local muslims peoples living there as well. I have never heard that they actually support uygurs. so you can see there's something wrong with uygurs, why wont even their brethrens support them?

[d'artagnan]

We are dealing and advancing...but you are no where near the civilization..all you're doing is exploting the westen moral with your cheap labor..you're days will end soon one day too..when the west comes to their sences again.

You keep barking and update yourself..we don't want EU.

Yeah, keep advancing in cyprus~ ok enuf, go to hell turks~~ no time to give a damn abt ur ataturculuk domuzlar ****~

[Fade]

Hey guys, whats goin on in here?

http://i25.tinypic.com/1j9atl.jpg

[4X4Driver]

Oh yeah~~ Show me~~ keep barking, and that will make us even more convinced that china needs Lieberman-ish figure to deal with Uyghurs. And for turkey, deal with ur armenian past before you come to us.

You guys should start begging Vlaams Belang or some other right wing parties in EU so that they will be more comfortable to let you guys get into EU. What happens in Asia is not really ur probs anymore domuzlar~

You've been reported for calling us Turks "Pigs"

****ing savages...you almost had the world fooled.

[d'artagnan]

At least two of them are in Southeast Asia and at least one on "vacation" is in Beijing.

In beijing......hmm.. prob not a good time haha, SEA should be ok, prob with girls lol

[d'artagnan]

You've been reported for calling us Turks "Pigs"

I didnt report you calling us Chinks~

Because: i don't give a damn about u.

so i wont report u, sif u r anyting worth reporting

see how generous i am towards u~

[Ordie]

Which is good.

I wouldnt be so hardline towards them if kazaks, uzbeks, tajiks are also rioting, they are the local muslims peoples living there as well. I have never heard that they actually support uygurs. so you can see there's something wrong with uygurs, why wont even their brethrens support them?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Uighurs. Only that they are not a priority in the national interest of China let alone the world community.

The Uzbeks, Kazahks, Kyghiz, Turkmen and Turks does business with China. That's why they are silent.

[d'artagnan]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Uighurs. Only that they are not a priority in the national interest of China let alone the world community.

The Uzbeks, Kazahks, Kyghiz, Turkmen and Turks does business with China. That's why they are silent.

No, i was talking abt the kazaks uzbeks kirgiz and tajis (which are not turks but iranian's brethrens) living in xinjiang, as far as i have known, they dont trust uygurs either.
Turks do make some noise as you can hear, sif they are the leader of the region.

[IraGlacialis]

Just curious, where is the reaction in the US about these events? Our are people too busy slavering over pop star funerals and shot football players?

Update your dossier genius, I'm no Turk.
Silence, you filthy Ottoman. You cannot have Australia.

[4X4Driver]

I didnt report you calling us Chinks~

Because: i don't give a damn about u.

so i wont report u, sif u r anyting worth reporting

I edited my comment. I hope we'll see the days that no one will give a damn about you too.

[Ordie]

No, i was talking abt the kazaks uzbeks kirgiz and tajis (which are not turks but iranian's brethrens) living in xinjiang, as far as i have known, they dont trust uygurs either.
Turks do make some noise as you can hear, sif they are the leader of the region.

Divide and conquer works well for the status quo.

But throughout China, there's tensions and divisions between the urban rich and rural poor. And its getting worst as the unemployed start returning home or in this case being replaced by a minority group in urban China.

[d'artagnan]

I edited my comment. I hope we'll see the days that no one will give a damn about you too.

Ok, nice to see you follow my path~

rage brother, rage... im not even angry with u~~ now would you excuse me please i'll read Kara Kitap by Pamuk Orhan while replying others' posts

By saying 'give a damn about you too' you mean no one gives a damn about u guys already?

[d'artagnan]

Divide and conquer works well for the status quo.

But throughout China, there's tensions and divisions between the urban rich and rural poor. And its getting worst as the unemployed start returning home or in this case being replaced by a minority group in urban China.

Well, divide and conquer won't work well if uygurs treat their brethrens like brethrens, they see them as han and hui who should be packed up and thrown to the sea.

[Bolshoy]

Well, divide and conquer won't work well if uygurs treat their brethrens like brethrens, they see them as han and hui who should be packed up and thrown to the sea.

Not again please. rofl

Xuuuuy. :cantbeli:

[Ordie]

Just curious, where is the reaction in the US about these events? Our are people too busy slavering over pop star funerals and shot football players?.

Yep
Pretty much.
Iran has fallen from the headlines.
Everyone is speculating what's Palin's next move.
The economy still sucks.
Obama is on a Russian lovefest.
Bruno is about to be released

A good week for tyrants if they want get away with murder.

[Ordie]

Well, divide and conquer won't work well if uygurs treat their brethrens like brethrens, they see them as han and hui who should be packed up and thrown to the sea.

But even the Chinese treat each other like crap too.

[d'artagnan]

Not again please. rofl

Xuuuuy. :cantbeli:


i kno you understand russian, but grow up~

[Bolshoy]

i kno you understand russian, but grow up~

Sorry? p-)

Hui, cool people. :|

[d'artagnan]

But even the Chinese treat each other like crap too.

that's like brothers arguing and joking about each other (eg guy from beijing saying crap abt shanghai etc), but when are facing one common nemesis, you will see the reaction ~

[d'artagnan]

Sorry? p-)

Hui, cool people. :|

Yeah, you don't know how azeri in chinese sounds like, bt since im too chilled with those randoms words which might sound like swearing in another, i wont judge.p-)

[Ordie]

that's like brothers arguing and joking about each other (eg guy from beijing saying crap abt shanghai etc), but when are facing one common nemesis, you will see the reaction ~

It is the Chinese norm that if you are not familiy, friends, classmates, co-workers, teachers and government, one is treated with indifference. If this is a sore issue with foriegn visitors and expats, I could only image how a non-Han Chinese would feel.

The only time they get together outside the close network is when a crisis arises. (earthquake, japanese textbooks, ethnic rioting).

[d'artagnan]

It is the Chinese norm that if you are not familiy, friends, classmates, co-workers, teachers and government, one is treated with indifference.

The only time they get together outside the close network is when a crisis arises. (earthquake, japanese textbooks, ethnic rioting).

well, that's one big bad prob after cultural revolution, i do think it breaks the trusts ppl have with each other, and since now ppl are having a busy life, the distance between ppl are ever larger. so those two factors combined do make ppl aloof from each other. Maybe time and rising living standard might change things.

[Bolshoy]

Yeah, you don't know how azeri in chinese sounds like, bt since im too chilled with those randoms words which might sound like swearing in another, i wont judge.p-)

Really? I would like to hear that from you. :roll:

[Ordie]

well, that's one big bad prob after cultural revolution, i do think it breaks the trusts ppl have with each other, and since now ppl are having a busy life, the distance between ppl are ever larger. so those two factors combined do make ppl aloof from each other. Maybe time and rising living standard might change things.

Maybe allowing civil society to emerge at the grassroots level will help.

[d'artagnan]

Really? I would like to hear that from you. :roll:

well, i'd keep cultural sensitiveness ahead of probing other meanings of a word in another language. moi drug (it's russian, no other meanings)

[Bolshoy]

I disagree.

If Xinjiang goes, so does Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan and the CCP from ruling China.

Then we'll have another century of humiliation and nationalism, only this time with nukes.

and the potential of 2.3 Billion people living within an unstable country which holds our debt.

This Chinese GOV are doing exactly what they did in Tibet.

Poor conditions for the native people of the region while settling more and more Hans and giving them everything they need. :|

I hope Uyghurs will stop this fasicst process. Becoming minority in its own homeland.

[d'artagnan]

Maybe allowing civil society to emerge at the grassroots level will help.

Yeah, that's one thing i think govt is controlling toooooo much. But doubt if any would do it tho, i mean young folks are eager to join in the Party not because they love those rubbish ideology bt to have a brighter future, and certainly ppl working in some civil society groups wont earn heaps, i mean realistically, i don't think it will attract lots of ppl.

[d'artagnan]

This Chinese GOV are doing exactly what they did in Tibet.

Poor conditions for the native people of the region while settling more and more Hans and giving them everything they need. :|

I hope Uyghurs will stop this fasicst process. Becoming minority in its own homeland.

It's land given to us by god, why can't chinese settle? rofl

[Bolshoy]

It's land given to us by god, why can't chinese settle? rofl

Thats why you call it "new" lands?

[d'artagnan]

Thats why you call it "new" lands?

new present from god, so...

[Ordie]

new present from god, so...

I never knew that God plays a role in rationalizing land claims in China.

If the US can govern Puerto Rico without the use of arms, anyone could govern Xinjiang without the use of arms.

[d'artagnan]

I never knew that God plays a role in rationalizing land claims in China.

If the US can govern Puerto Rico without the use of arms, anyone could govern Xinjiang without the use of arms.

I'm jus joking with this guy who tried to play a pun with the word HUI in russian language.

No, u cant rule xinjiang without military, i've read newspaper in 40's seeing uygurs taking advantage of china's weakness and the headline was ' "Banish Chinese" as their slogan' and stuff like that. well, that deserves some punishment, we are not to be banished like goods.

[Bolshoy]

Dartagnan, look what your Hans do to Uyghurs.

I m only concerned about barbaric actions by Chinese GOV and Hans against Uyghurs. Nothing more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uN32RSb92w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.donanimhaber.com%2Fm_32892291%2Ftm.htm&feature=player_embedded

[Laworkerbee]

new present from god, so...

You forget infidel, China is Godless.

[d'artagnan]

Dartagnan, look what your Hans do to Uyghurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uN32RSb92w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.donanimhaber.com%2Fm_32892291%2Ftm.htm&feature=player_embedded

I'm a mix raced person so, i'm not a Han as u think.

Let me tell you again, if someone's spreading a libel against the Hui (which you find funny, and they are muslims and they are originated from middle east, ie a mixed of arabs, persians and chinese and some cases jewish, which is still in doubt), things won't even get close to a riot. ppl might just say: oh gosh, wtf... and that's it.

[d'artagnan]

You forget infidel, China is Godless.

whatever, there's churches and temples everywhere, china do have religion control but not as ur generalisation is like. since i go to buddhist and Mazu (which is a chinese religion) temples sometimes, I don't need u to lec me about religious freedom.

[Ordie]

No, u cant rule xinjiang without military, i've read newspaper in 40's seeing uygurs taking advantage of china's weakness and the headline was ' "Banish Chinese" as their slogan' and stuff like that. well, that deserves some punishment, we are not to be banished like goods.

Governing a restless provence is all about carrots and sticks. and you pick your battles.

British colonial governors were rewarded by the least amount of times they called upon the British Army to quell distubances.

[Bolshoy]

You forget infidel, China is Godless.

Good one. rofl

[d'artagnan]

Governing a restless provence is all about carrots and sticks. and you pick your battles.

British colonial governors were rewarded by the least amount of times they called upon the British Army to quell distubances.

I concur. But im just saying when han + hui + manchus + zhuang + many many nationalities in china are all against the uigurs for the social instabilities they have caused, things will get bad worse and worst. It's not like tibetans, i mean i've been to a chinese forum, when the tibetan riot happened, there are still ppl saying that there must be something wrong, and we should take more care about how tibetans feel. but when this xinjiang riot happened, everyone is in favour of beat the crap out of the uighurs.

Bear in mind, till now, i have never ever heard anyone saying bad things about Uzbeks, Kazaks who are also living in xinjiang. Ppl do say Uighurs are always like they are the owner of the land and everyone needs to serve them and they don't need to do anything.

I do not wish things could turn up like this, but having experience with uygurs coming to coastal cities and being utterly rude and ruthless and stealing properties sif nothing is going to happen to them, i totally don't care what happen to them. I mean that's just not only about Han chinese, it's about ppl perceiving one ethnic group which can basically break any law and nothing can be done, jus like some communist officials. And that's the trigger of that fatal libel against them. And i know 2 Han chinese friends from Xinjiang, they are like typical han chinese, low key and not willing to fight with sticks and knives, how come all of a sudden, those ordinary han chinese started to patrol road and start to retaliate the uigurs? that's unthinkable for me... so some uighurs have done lots of mistakes and it made many ppl become apathetic to them.

and like those involved in xinjiang riot, those in guangdong riot should be detained and prob facing execution for taking laws in their own hand.

[LordKitchener]

I would caution everyone here who is jumping on the anti-China bandwagon - do you really want China to cede a large part of their land to Muslim rule? There have been reported suicide-bombings in the Xinjiang region for years now and many of their people have been caught fighting with the Taliban/AQ. This is not a place you want democracy in and we do not want to see the Jihad pushing further East.

[Ordie]

I concur. But im just saying when han + hui + manchus + zhuang + many many nationalities in china are all against the uigurs for the social instabilities they have caused.

Are there any Manchu's left? Most are acculturated Han Chinese.
There are only a handful of Manchu speakers.

[d'artagnan]

Are there any Manchu's left? Most are acculturated Han Chinese.
There are only a handful of Manchu speakers.

there are more than 10 million manchus in china. i am one of them. it is true most of us can't speak manchu, and two of the best writers in chinese history are manchus (Lao She and Cao xueqin).

It is true, from 1644 when Manchus entered Beijing, manchus have transformed from nomads to people of pen (writers i've mentioned, artist eg Lang Lang the pianist, movie stars etc). Politically manchus are no longer very powerful, unlike Hui muslims, there are so many generals who are hui ppl and one of the vice-premier is a hui mulism himself.

But recent years, some manchus want to learn more about traditional manchu culture, and lots of manchu books of translation of chinese literature as wel as some rare pieces of manchu literature or official documents are scanned and are now available online for those people to read their lost language.

[4X4Driver]

I would caution everyone here who is jumping on the anti-China bandwagon - do you really want China to cede a large part of their land to Muslim rule? There have been reported suicide-bombings in the Xinjiang region for years now and many of their people have been caught fighting with the Taliban/AQ. This is not a place you want democracy in and we do not want to see the Jihad pushing further East.

...and you don't be using the same ol' "Muslim boogeyman" card to divert the situation to some where else. These clashes has/had nothing to do with religion what's so ever.

[Ordie]

...and you don't be using the same ol' "Muslim boogeyman" card to divert the situation to some where else. These clashes has/had nothing to do with religion what's so ever.

You're right.

These Uighurs are not Wahabbist or Shia Fundamentalist. The issue is a local one where they feel disenfranchised just as many rural Chinese are left out of China's policymaking process.

[LordKitchener]

These clashes has/had nothing to do with religion what's so ever.

Don't be so ridiculous. It has EVERYTHING to do with religion, race, culture, economics and pride.

[Solvent]

Don't be so ridiculous. It has EVERYTHING to do with religion, race, culture, economics and pride.

I totally agree with you. All the factors contribute to the conflicting.

[Ordie]

I totally agree with you. All the factors contribute to the conflicting.

I think its the negative attitudes and norms between the two groups that were left unchecked. Add an inept local CCP Boss you can trigger an uprising with a minor event.

The Chinese are not well known for cultural sensitivity and etiqutte towards outsiders.

[4X4Driver]

Don't be so ridiculous. It has EVERYTHING to do with religion, race, culture, economics and pride.

NOT this conflict...you and your type got pretty use to using this "Muslim boogeyman" card in every conflict with the muslims..you'll only get the support of likeminded ppl like yourself..not the ones who knows what's going on.

[Smiling_Wolf]

I just heard about what happened - it's terrible. But could this be the wake-up call that the government needs?

As for your comments, d'artagnan, Uighurs are just as much a part of the Chinese identity as Han or all the other nationalities within China, so you don't have the right to condemn their entire population for a few bombing incidents caused by a few. If anything, they want equal rights with their Han cousins, which they've always been denied time and time again, and they have no other way to vent their anger except through violence. So until every Chinese person learns to look at one another eye to eye without strangling each other (which so far no one seems to be trying), "Harmony" and "Stability" in China are just huffy slogans.

And don't call me anti-Chinese - I'm probably more of a patriot than you, given how few Chinese I find here truly want China to be better.

[Ordie]

I just heard about what happened - it's terrible. But could this be the wake-up call that the government needs?

As for your comments, d'artagnan, Uighurs are just as much a part of the Chinese identity as Han or all the other nationalities within China, so you don't have the right to condemn their entire population for a few bombing incidents caused by a few. If anything, they want equal rights with their Han cousins, which they've always been denied time and time again, and they have no other way to vent their anger except through violence. So until every Chinese person learns to look at one another eye to eye without strangling each other (which so far no one seems to be trying), "Harmony" and "Stability" in China are just huffy slogans.

And don't call me anti-Chinese - I'm probably more of a patriot than you, given how few Chinese I find here truly want China to be better.

Good post........

[LordKitchener]

NOT this conflict...you and your type got pretty use to using this "Muslim boogeyman" card in every conflict with the muslims..you'll only get the support of likeminded ppl like yourself..not the ones who knows what's going on.


Well, I'm sure you would like to enlighten us as to the cause of the situation (in your very humble opinion). But it already seems you have chosen to ignore reality and historical facts.

Here's a clue. When you disagree with someone's point of view - offer them some logical explanation as to why they are wrong, otherwise your opinion is will be seen as completely worthless.

[Ordie]

Well, I'm sure you would like to enlighten us as to the cause of the situation (in your very humble opinion). But it already seems you have chosen to ignore reality and historical facts.

Here's a clue. When you disagree with someone's point of view - offer them some logical explanation as to why they are wrong, otherwise your opinion is will be seen as completely worthless.

I've been to China.

It is as secular as one can gets. Even the Muslim owned restaurants serve beer and spirits.

The rule in China, you can be as religious as one can get, but never challenge the staus quo (Government)

[Smiling_Wolf]

I've been to China.

It is as secular as one can gets. Even the Muslim owned restaurants serve beer and spirits.

The rule in China, you can be as religious as one can get, but never challenge the staus quo (Government)

Cool. Secularism is one step closer to paradise. Now China just needs to clean up all its other problems.

[4X4Driver]

Well, I'm sure you would like to enlighten us as to the cause of the situation (in your very humble opinion). But it already seems you have chosen to ignore reality and historical facts.

Here's a clue. When you disagree with someone's point of view - offer them some logical explanation as to why they are wrong, otherwise your opinion is will be seen as completely worthless.

Nice try.

Try educating yourself on the latest events insteated of using the "Muslim boogeyman" card. ;)

You see..this thread went so long by the contributions of more educated ones and none mentioned the "Muslim Boogeyman" before you...that should give you some idea about how much religion is in this conflict ;)

[Qianlong]

Repost from general discusion thread

Just like the riots in Tibet last year it's again time for biased news ... that train is never late

Belgian and Dutch media ->

Gazet van Antwerpen 7/7/2009:
140 Uyghurs killed
Nothing on who started the riots

TV1 news 7/7/2009:
Han Chinese wielding knives and clubs attacking shops and a mosque
News report says it was a revenge attack, but nothing on Chinese casualties or burned down shops and cars
human right watch spokesman says Uyghurs are not given enough freedom

Dutch news 7/7/2009:
Same story about the Han revenge attack
showing footage of the Uyghurs women demonstrating - news reporter say maybe the protesters will be punished -> no proof for that
criticising chinese media for only showing chinese casualties and burned down shops

The Uyghur congres is even better -> more than 800 peaceful protesters killed in ethnic cleasing.

I think you need more than 10.000 dead before NATO starts bombing (hmm Kosovo anybody)

Anybody know what happened to the 1000 of Tibetans killed by Chinese forces last year... yeah right, no follow up news, cause the Olympics are over... damage done

Apperantly according to all the Chinese are bad uyghurs are good folks, killing innocent people in the streets and buring cars and shops is oke, cause the Uyghurs are suppressed.

By this time the Israelis would already have Apaches in sky and build dozers ramming down houses. But the bad commie PLA and PAP can't do squat.

Doesn't mater if you're Chinese or Uyghur, but waiting for a brother or father never to come home because they were beaten to death on the streets can't be tolerated. If mobs are willing to kill and destroy don't be supprised the police wil shoot and kill you.

If China has proof outside forces were responsible, show it and proof it.
That outside forces were resonsible rethoric is getting old.

Maybe it's true you never know. Georgia and the Ukraine did get help from the USA for their pro west - anti Russia "revolutions"

And the most effective way for rallying Pro western Georgian and Ukranian forces were through mobile phone calls and mass sms. No wonder the Chinese are closing down or jamming all cell phone and internet connections.

Even when it's not for revolution, closing down gsm and sms traffic will make it more difficult to assemble, spread rumors or organise rioting

[Ordie]

It looks like Hu Jintao is cutting his G8 trip short to deal with the crisis.
Does not bode well with the local CCP.

[Ordie]

Repost from general discusion thread

Just like the riots in Tibet last year it's again time for biased news ... that train is never late



Unlike Tibet, the government invited a group of international journalist to Urumqi. It backfired as the riots flamed up again and the journalist scattered.

[Solvent]

I think its the negative attitudes and norms between the two groups that were left unchecked. Add an inept local CCP Boss you can trigger an uprising with a minor event.

The Chinese are not well known for cultural sensitivity and etiqutte towards outsiders.

I like to know who are well known for cultural sensitivity and etiqutte towards outsiders.

[Ordie]

I like to know who are well known for cultural sensitivity and etiqutte towards outsiders.

Oddly enough, in my personal experience, usually in areas that are the most undeveloped, poor, humble with people full of dignity.

[Solvent]

Oddly enough, in my personal experience, usually in areas that are the most undeveloped, poor, humble with people full of dignity.

Sometimes, those people are full of surprises. Some of them are living in very poor condition. But in critical moment, they can show incredible bravery, and they have simple and straightforward standards to judge good and bad. I personally experienced a couple of times, very inspiring.

Yes, I do agree with you on this one.

[Laworkerbee]

It looks like Hu Jintao is cutting his G8 trip short to deal with the crisis.
Does not bode well with the local CCP.

Good, I hope heads roll over this.

[Ordie]

Good, I hope heads roll over this.

I hope so too.

Losing face is a big deal.
Especially if China is not at the G8 table.

Here is the biography of the local CCP Boss. Guess what? he's not a local.
http://www.chinavitae.com/biography/Wang_Lequan/full

[Smiling_Wolf]

I hope so too.

Losing face is a big deal.
Especially if China is not at the G8 table.

Here is the biography of the local CCP Boss. Guess what? he's not a local.
http://www.chinavitae.com/biography/Wang_Lequan/full

He looks like any other greasy politician. I wish his drop down the rope to be long and hard.

Sorry, going off topic but... China is not one of the G8, so why are they there? Shouldn't it be more like a G20 meeting?

[cn_habs]

So.....

Disgruntled Han Chinese start this whole mess with making up lies about rape...now they are seeking revenge for something they created?

Business as usual in the Chicom denial dept.

Another of those I know everything about China and the Chinese kind of wannabe. The police let the rapists go for a reason. Would you be laughing right now if your daughter and wifes have been raped and had their throats slit like animals after the riot?????

[Fage]

Another of those I know everything about China and the Chinese kind of wannabe. The police let the rapists go for a reason. Would you be laughing right now if your daughter and wifes have been raped and had their throats slit like animals after the riot?????
just leave that troll alone

[Ordie]

anyone having the insight to tell:

is this recent quarrel is whether on smaller or larger scale than last year's Tibet uprising and its reprisal was?

Not only in Tibet or Xinjiang, but all over China. In 2007 there were about 7,000 uprisings. Mostly to do with land expropriation, taxes, corruption, and envorinmental issues.

[Ordie]

He looks like any other greasy politician. I wish his drop down the rope to be long and hard.

Sorry, going off topic but... China is not one of the G8, so why are they there? Shouldn't it be more like a G20 meeting?

Invite them as a guest. It's like G8 + BCI (Brazil China India)

[acosta]

i just say they are not good musilim, they are bad criminals. but han's revenge doesn't help. The chinese government need proper and resolute measure to take them in prison, otherwise they let people down, people start to doubt the government. that's what they are worrying.

[Ordie]

i just say they are not good musilim, they are bad criminals. but han's revenge doesn't help. The chinese government need proper and resolute measure to take them in prison, otherwise they let people down, people start to doubt the government. that's what they are worrying.

Your right.
The legitimacy of the CCP is at stake here.

But confidence in Chinese justice is lacking.

China needs to reform its legal system to be fair, transparent and independent.

[crayola]

I like to know who are well known for cultural sensitivity and etiqutte towards outsiders.

i heard the iraqis put on quite a show for foreigners

[crayola]

Thats why you call it "new" lands?


are you serious?

you can't forcefully settle millions of Han Chinese in the middle of Uyghur homeland, and call it a "gift"

you sir have an unbelievable sense of entitlement!

[acosta]

wat?

its not homeland of Uyghur, they are supposedly live in Turkey, they moved to this "homeland" of these people, and claim their homeland.

these people are:

Kazakhs, Huis, Monglians,Hans, Kyrgyzs, Tajiks, and other ethnic groups. Xinjaing are their homeland since thousand years ago. Uyghur's homeland, are you saying they should go back to Turkey, I guess Turkish will ruin you.

learn some histroy before you cast your vote.


are you serious?

you can't forcefully settle millions of Han Chinese in the middle of Uyghur homeland, and call it a "gift"

you sir have an unbelievable sense of entitlement!

[Gentius]

I heard the army is being sent in.

[acosta]

sorry, i forgot include Uzbeks, they are all entitled for the land.

the public is blaming government too mild in dealing with those riots, and now hans have to use civilian force defending themselves. so army have to be sent in. I guess the local governor is going to resign...


I heard the army is being sent in.

[cn_habs]

The last thing they want is for you trollers to critize the Chinese again. They always wait till things cool down which was why so many Hans were assaulted and finally took matter in their own hands.

[netnomad]

I heard the army is being sent in.
Can you quote here the source?

[crayola]

shame on you for defending the atrocities of the Chinese gov't, they're lying through their teeth, and you damn well know it.

[crayola]

wat?

its not homeland of Uyghur, they are supposedly live in Turkey, they moved to this "homeland" of these people, and claim their homeland.

these people are:

Kazakhs, Huis, Monglians,Hans, Kyrgyzs, Tajiks, and other ethnic groups. Xinjaing are their homeland since thousand years ago. Uyghur's homeland, are you saying they should go back to Turkey, I guess Turkish will ruin you.

learn some histroy before you cast your vote.


right.

so what's the problem then?

[FIA_cn]

I've been to China.

It is as secular as one can gets. Even the Muslim owned restaurants serve beer and spirits.

The rule in China, you can be as religious as one can get, but never challenge the staus quo (Government)

Sorry
I dont follow, sir.
elaborate the logic here, plz.

[acosta]

shame on you. are you human, blind man?

it's nothing about whose governmant are there, it's about crimes, serious crimes. you want it happen to your city, to you family?

simply go to some travel website, check what travaler says. check all pictures concerning the incidence, and judge by your heart.

i don't talk to you anymore. may those died in the riots rest in peace.


shame on you for defending the atrocities of the Chinese gov't, they're lying through their teeth, and you damn well know it.

[Jiggy]

^ cool story bro, don't play the humanitarian role now.

i remember you posting a picture of a japanese train accident as if it was funny.

i guess remorse only applies to you only when tragedies happen to chinese people.


it's nothing about whose governmant are there, it's about crimes, serious crimes. you want it happen to your city, to you family?

well thankfully, the citizens of my city and state aren't being oppressed and mistreated by little chinese people.

otherwise you'd see alot of "hans" getting beat up and robbed, more than they are now lol.

[hskywalker]

The government's minority policy has big problem. When uighur criminals commits individual crimes in China, most of them are not punished harshly enough. Government thought this can appease the majority uighur population, but they are indeed appeasing the criminal section of the uighur population, the law abiding uighurs won't be thankful for this kind of leniency. On the other hand this policy angers normal han chinese.

From what the police says, those uighurs killing han chinese has certain tacticals, they didn't kill on a fury. When han chinese seek avenge, they can't distingush criminals or non-criminals. Thus again make law abiding uighurs angry.

The government's biased minority policy is making the situation developing towards the direction of those of the balkan mess. Ethnic feud, which the western media loves to describe and western nationalists loves to see.

The government should accept the fact uighurs has a higher ratio of criminals, and treat them accordingly during normal times. That's the only way to avoid such things to happen again.

[GBob]

shame on you for defending the atrocities of the Chinese gov't, they're lying through their teeth, and you damn well know it.
He might be really unaware of the dark side behind the regime's iron curtain, the whole system of that nation never works to benefit its people, but it does very well to cover up its own sh!t and show you a pretty face.

[acosta]

yeah, dark side is unfolding in the incident.chinese government is too mild to those urghurs terrorists, in order to achieve what they called harmony, they are expensing hans chinese. those urghurs terrorists should be punished seriously,just like what bush adminstration had done with al quaedo.

now you know why civilian han chinese have to protect themselves.


He might be really unaware of the dark side behind the regime's iron curtain, the whole system of that nation never works to benefit its people, but it does very well to cover up its own sh!t and show you a pretty face.

[crayola]

i don't talk to you anymore.

fair enough.

but i've got to say this: does the great firewall of china allow you to visit mp.net?

or you use a proxy? i'll be darned if that sh1ts not illegal

do you even get any real news? news that isnt doctored/censored by PRC's xinhua news agency?

i\m done with this thread

[GBob]

yeah, dark side is unfolding in the incident.chinese government is too mild to those urghurs terrorists, in order to achieve what they called harmony, they are expensing hans chinese. those urghurs terrorists should be punished seriously,just like what bush adminstration had done with al quaedo.

now you know why civilian han chinese have to protect themselves.
It is very smart to name Uihgers terrorists if you want them to be "seroiously" punished. But i've read and watched lots about the riot and the way Chinese govt. handle ethnic troubles in half century, i got my own idea about it.

[killer_whale]

fair enough.

but i've got to say this: does the great firewall of china allow you to visit mp.net?

or you use a proxy? i'll be darned if that sh1ts not illegal

do you even get any real news? news that isnt doctored/censored by PRC's xinhua news agency?

i\m done with this thread


LOL, everyone in China can visit the mp.net.

We can also visit BBC and CNN, So we know who are lying.

[GBob]

LOL, everyone in China can visit the mp.net.

We can also visit BBC and CNN, So we know who are lying.

But if I have to choose a trustful news source, CCTV and Xinhua are the very last to.

[FIA_cn]

But if I have to choose a trustful news source, CCTV and Xinhua are the very last to.

In case about XinJiang and Tibit news, I'd rather trust Xinhua than bbc or cnn, etc.

[TORA]

http://www.youtube.com/v/_iG-baU_vxo&hl=ja&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/_iG-baU_vxo&hl=ja&fs=1)

[King of the Grey]

The government's minority policy has big problem. When uighur criminals commits individual crimes in China, most of them are not punished harshly enough. Government thought this can appease the majority uighur population, but they are indeed appeasing the criminal section of the uighur population, the law abiding uighurs won't be thankful for this kind of leniency. On the other hand this policy angers normal han chinese.are you serious? so not only economic appeasement is enough, but legally they can 'get off the hook' for the sake of social harmony?

What a load of bullcrap, then the government will become very weak in the eyes of BOTH Uighurs and Hans, law-abiding or not...

hope both sides can calm down and the criminal elements of society be rooted out first...then CCP can long hours debating what to do next.

And yes, alcohol can be consumed by the native Muslims, they're pretty good too, home-brewed. Had a pint of those during my stay in Kumul (otherwise known as Hami)

[jamber]

Did anyone read the articles on 'London Evening Standard'?
I want to say,that is holy bull****!
This is some kind of terrorism attack.But some of your medias describe it to be a 'peaceful march'.

[TORA]

KE INFAMI ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBhi8HWsX8g

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

Another thread on Xinjiang...this time about revenge attacks. Its funny, 99% of you people have wool pulled over your eyes.

Look at any photos of police, PAP and I can pick out examples of all different ethnic minorities standing in solidarity and protecting the citizens of China. Even in the supposed "Han" mobs I can spot some minorities joining in.

A good 1/3 of PSB police and equally in the PAP deployed in Xinjiang are local Uighurs and other minorities. So much for this supposed widespread dis-enfranchisement and discrimination against the minorities the resident idiots on mp.net keep pointing to.

The level of violence is great, but this is because those instigators know that it will take great violence to have any chance of tearing the social fabric. The PRC government so far has been exemplary, not taking the bait put before it.

Keep going mate, the PRC will continue to disappoint you on your worst thoughts.

[Jiggy]

Another thread on Xinjiang...this time about revenge attacks. Its funny, 99% of you people have wool pulled over your eyes.

Look at any photos of police, PAP and I can pick out examples of all different ethnic minorities standing in solidarity and protecting the citizens of China. Even in the supposed "Han" mobs I can spot some minorities joining in.

A good 1/3 of PSB police and equally in the PAP deployed in Xinjiang are local Uighurs and other minorities. So much for this supposed widespread dis-enfranchisement and discrimination against the minorities the resident idiots on mp.net keep pointing to.

The level of violence is great, but this is because those instigators know that it will take great violence to have any chance of tearing the social fabric. The PRC government so far has been exemplary, not taking the bait put before it.

Keep going mate, the PRC will continue to disappoint you on your worst thoughts.
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx55/pais86/cool_story_bro_trollcat.jpg

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

KE INFAMI ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBhi8HWsX8g

Are you trying to show the rapid response of the Armed Police riot unit in rushing to that man's rescue?

Or are you comparing the pre-meditated violence and murder of 3000 extremist on innocent civilians to the acts of a few hundred mostly young men high on emotions and unfortunately finding a unlucky victim?

I noticed that in the background was the voice of a girl screaming "stop the attack!" several times in perfect mandarin. Cooler heads like her's will eventually prevail.

Your attempts in flaming = FAIL.

[FIA_cn]

can someone who is proficient in translating try type these into English?

thanks



香港文汇报记者直击： 维族妇女小孩包围外媒


本报记者目击：数百维族妇孺围外媒
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6466/79341687.jpg　
■数百名维族妇女集体拉扯围堵落单武警。 路透社

【本报特派记者乌鲁木齐7日电】7日上午，新疆自治区组织境外记者前往乌鲁木齐「7．5」暴乱事件现场采访。结果，数百名维族妇女儿童和部分青壮年突然一路高呼口号，将正在采访的记者们团团围住，反映有家人被抓等情况，前后长达2小时。
大都抱小孩 统一民族服装

　当时，包括多家本港媒体在内的上百家中外媒体，正在乌市赛马场附近的一家吉利4S店采访。正当记者忙于拍摄被犯罪分子焚烧的30多辆汽车残骸和被烧黑的大楼时，突然有一名维族妇女带两个维族小女孩，一路高声哭叫出现在外国记者们面前。
　之后短短数分钟，马路一侧的胡同里，又出现了约300-400名维族妇女。她们全都或手拉或怀抱儿童，统一身民族服装，不断齐举右臂，一路高呼维语口号，将记者团团包围。
特别设翻译 答问几易口径

　在成功吸引众多记者的注意后，这些维族妇女又分成几群，对记者、特别是外国记者，声泪俱下地用维语哭喊。她们当中，每几个人里便会有一名懂汉语的 维族妇女负责用中文作现场翻译，这让记者们很容易地明白其哭诉的主要内容是：她们的丈夫、儿子或父亲，昨晚被警察抓走了、打死了。但当被问及到底有多少人 昨晚被抓或死亡时，这些维族妇女却又不断变换「口径」：最初向外媒记者说有100人，之后又改口说300人，最后又称有上千人。
　记者注意到，在一些中国记者用普通话向这些妇女提问时，她们会用中文回答说听不懂，但面对外国记者的镜头，她们马上用流利的汉语大声哭诉，并不断有人晕倒。如果发现外国记者没注意到这些「细节」，还会有人主动上前，拉外国记者们去拍。
主动求拍照 与警察对峙
　对于现场维持秩序的警察，还出现维族妇女集体推搡、拉扯落单警察的情况。
　大约10分钟后，胡同中又冲出数百名身维族服装的妇女儿童，其中亦夹杂不少男性青壮年。这些人同样一路高举右臂，高呼口号。而之前围堵外国记者 的那些妇女，马上也相互招呼，抛下媒体，加入前者的队伍。两队人汇合后，估计约有近千人，开始向道路另一端戒备的特警和武警行进。
　记者注意到，面对冲击与责骂，特警和武警保持了冷静克制，先用维语喊话和用人墙来驱散聚集人群，但未能奏效。大量维族妇女和青年仍不断向前冲击，并选择在外国记者镜头前，并排躺坐在警车前，与警方对峙，前后长达1个多小时，甚至一度令特警部队被迫退后。

[TORA]

http://www.youtube.com/v/V25huimxsGg&hl=ja&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/V25huimxsGg&hl=ja&fs=1)

[seraosha]

I think you both need to chill the fvck out.

[Ordie]

Sorry
I dont follow, sir.
elaborate the logic here, plz.

Islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol (beer, wine). In Muslim countries it is the norm for alcohol to be banned.

However, during my recent visit to China, Muslim restaurants served beer and wine as part of the menu. This shows the degree of secular norms within the Muslim community in China. Thus not influenced by conservative norms from Arabia or Persia.

Religious practices is allowed as long as they do not present a challenge to authority. During my visit to the Lama Temple, I noticed many closed circut cameras outside and within the prayer halls. I also noticed several plainclothes PAP officers strolling about as well.

Access to western press is easy. Almost all hotels have cable access to CNN and BBC (even **** channels). Internet access not an issue. The authorities are more focused on Chinese language media and sites than foriegn language.

From my experiences China is a weird police state. They will profile and target rural pensioners near Tienanmen square for fear they might be petitioners, yet ignore the streetwalking prostitutes on the same block. (between Wangfujing and Tienanmen Square).

I view the problems in Xinjian no different that the current problems between the urban rich and the rural poor in China. There's alot of discrimination and prejudices against the poor and the poor are fed up.

The rural poor feels the contributed to Chinas growth, but get little in return. Local rural corrupt CCP cadres do not help matters.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

From my experiences China is a weird police state. They will profile and target rural pensioners near Tienanmen square for fear they might be petitioners, yet ignore the streetwalking prostitutes on the same block. (between Wangfujing and Tienanmen Square).

Makes perfect sense: rural pensioners are potential flashpoints of generating negative publicity for the authority, due to the reverance and age old custom of looking after your parents in retirement.

Streetwalking pros arent a political problem, so therefore it is tolerated. Not sure after this beauty parlour self defense killing though, there is already a anti-prostitution campaign launched to much fanfare in Chinese news media, strangely just after the aquittal of the girl for killing the official.

[cn_habs]

Another wannabe jap/italian that convinces himself he knows what's going on? Your inability to understand Mandarin made your video completely worthless from your POV. Don't ridiculize yourself here.
http://www.youtube.com/v/V25huimxsGg&hl=ja&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/V25huimxsGg&hl=ja&fs=1)

[FIA_cn]

Islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol (beer, wine). In Muslim countries it is the norm for alcohol to be banned.

However, during my recent visit to China, Muslim restaurants served beer and wine as part of the menu. This shows the degree of secular norms within the Muslim community in China. Thus not influenced by conservative norms from Arabia or Persia.

Religious practices is allowed as long as they do not present a challenge to authority. During my visit to the Lama Temple, I noticed many closed circut cameras outside and within the prayer halls. I also noticed several plainclothes PAP officers strolling about as well.

Access to western press is easy. Almost all hotels have cable access to CNN and BBC (even **** channels). Internet access not an issue. The authorities are more focused on Chinese language media and sites than foriegn language.

From my experiences China is a weird police state. They will profile and target rural pensioners near Tienanmen square for fear they might be petitioners, yet ignore the streetwalking prostitutes on the same block. (between Wangfujing and Tienanmen Square).

I view the problems in Xinjian no different that the current problems between the urban rich and the rural poor in China. There's alot of discrimination and prejudices against the poor and the poor are fed up.

The rural poor feels the contributed to Chinas growth, but get little in return. Local rural corrupt CCP cadres do not help matters.

partially agreed.

but according to my experience, I think the cams in the Lama Temple are for the secure and fire alarm purpose, as you seen, people burn joss sticks there.

and I visit there several times each year, and I didn't notice there were any plainclothes PAP officers there, I'll pay attention next time maybe.

anyway, I usually have dinner with friends in Muslim restaurants, and yes they serve beer and wine as part of the menu, nobody force them to do so though.

[King of the Grey]

translation just for your sake, FIA p-)

*Direct report from reporters of Hong Kong Wenweipo (a pro-CCP newpaper based in HK)

[From the Special Correspondant in Urumuqi] On the morning of the 7th, the government of the Autonomous Region of Xinjiang organised foreign reporters to enter and report on the aftermath of the riot, which took place in Urumuqi on the 5th. As the reporters are on their way, they found themselves suddenly surrounded by a Uighur crowd of mainly teenagers, children and women. They were chanting and screaming at the reporters, conveying their grievances and distraught over the apparent arrest of family members.

At the time, over 100 foreign press, including many HK press, were conducting interviews in a "Jili 4S Shop" near the race course of Urumuqi. While the press were busy filming the chaotic scenes of over 30-burnt vehicles and damaged buildings, suddenly an Uighur woman appeared before the reporters with her two young children weeping. Within minutes, a group of about 300-400 ethnic Uighur women appeared at the road junctions, all holding hands, or carrying children, chanting as they approached the reporters.

Successfully attracting the attention of the press, the women split into smaller groups to talk to reporters, especially foreign reporters *(I sense bias here, but *shrug*) Within each of are women who understands Chinese acting as translators. This makes it easy for reporters to understand their greivances: Their child, husband or father were taken away and beaten to death. But when asked how many exactly were taken or beaten, the women kept on changing their answers. First it was 100, then it was 300, finally it reached over 1000. Our reporter also noticed when Chinese reporters attempt to ask questions in Chinese, the women would say they do not understand, but when facing foreign press, they would suddenly talk in fluent Chinese and faint. If they found the foreigners did not notice these, someone will direct the cameras to take photos. *(I find this part highly suspcious, for I have just read the same story in 3 different local newspaper which also have reporters there, either the hypocrisy curiously escaped all 3 newpapers, or all are actually funded by anti-Chinese foreigners... =0= )

To the policemen attached to the press envoy, the Uighur women pushed and pulled them. About 10 minutes later, another Uighur group appeared, this time made up with young Uighur males. These people were also chanting and raising their fists. When they met with the former group, both groups greeted each other, joined up, and continued down the road to approach the riot police standing guard at the end of the street. The press were left behind. Our reporter noticed, upon the pushes and verbal abuses, our policemen remained calm and professional, first communicating in Uighur and using the 'human wall' to disperse the crowd, but failed. The groups of women and young adults kept on pushing against the thin blue line, and chose to sit in front of the cameras of foreign reporters.*again...totally biased* This confrontation lasted for over 1 hour, and have forced back the lines of police several times* end of translation

What this pro-govt. paper also left out, is that the police quickly moved their female officers to the front rows after the Uighur women started to push against the lines...I think this little info is important since it shows the police ARE trying to do its job professionally.

Overall, if using HK papers as source, I do not suggest Wenweipo. I do, however, suggest the following 3 papers: Ming Pao Daily(in Chinese), South China Morning Post(English), and the Hong Kong Economic Journal (in Chinese)...they're the more non-biased papers existing in HK. PLUS, I have all 3 :D

[Solvent]

Another wannabe jap/italian that convinces himself he knows what's going on? Your inability to understand Mandarin made your video completely worthless from your POV. Don't ridicule yourself here.

There are more wannabe Japanese/Italian in the forum? Tora is the only one I know here.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

translation just for your sake, FIA p-)

*Direct report from reporters of Hong Kong Wenweipo (a pro-CCP newpaper based in HK)

[From the Special Correspondant in Urumuqi] On the morning of the 7th, the government of the Autonomous Region of Xinjiang organised foreign reporters to enter and report on the aftermath of the riot, which took place in Urumuqi on the 5th. As the reporters are on their way, they found themselves suddenly surrounded by a Uighur crowd of mainly teenagers, children and women. They were chanting and screaming at the reporters, conveying their grievances and distraught over the apparent arrest of family members.

At the time, over 100 foreign press, including many HK press, were conducting interviews in a "Jili 4S Shop" near the race course of Urumuqi. While the press were busy filming the chaotic scenes of over 30-burnt vehicles and damaged buildings, suddenly an Uighur woman appeared before the reporters with her two young children weeping. Within minutes, a group of about 300-400 ethnic Uighur women appeared at the road junctions, all holding hands, or carrying children, chanting as they approached the reporters.

Successfully attracting the attention of the press, the women split into smaller groups to talk to reporters, especially foreign reporters *(I sense bias here, but *shrug*) Within each of are women who understands Chinese acting as translators. This makes it easy for reporters to understand their greivances: Their child, husband or father were taken away and beaten to death. But when asked how many exactly were taken or beaten, the women kept on changing their answers. First it was 100, then it was 300, finally it reached over 1000. Our reporter also noticed when Chinese reporters attempt to ask questions in Chinese, the women would say they do not understand, but when facing foreign press, they would suddenly talk in fluent Chinese and faint. If they found the foreigners did not notice these, someone will direct the cameras to take photos. *(I find this part highly suspcious, for I have just read the same story in 3 different local newspaper which also have reporters there, either the hypocrisy curiously escaped all 3 newpapers, or all are actually funded by anti-Chinese foreigners... =0= )

To the policemen attached to the press envoy, the Uighur women pushed and pulled them. About 10 minutes later, another Uighur group appeared, this time made up with young Uighur males. These people were also chanting and raising their fists. When they met with the former group, both groups greeted each other, joined up, and continued down the road to approach the riot police standing guard at the end of the street. The press were left behind. Our reporter noticed, upon the pushes and verbal abuses, our policemen remained calm and professional, first communicating in Uighur and using the 'human wall' to disperse the crowd, but failed. The groups of women and young adults kept on pushing against the thin blue line, and chose to sit in front of the cameras of foreign reporters.*again...totally biased* This confrontation lasted for over 1 hour, and have forced back the lines of police several times* end of translation

What this pro-govt. paper also left out, is that the police quickly moved their female officers to the front rows after the Uighur women started to push against the lines...I think this little info is important since it shows the police ARE trying to do its job professionally.

Overall, if using HK papers as source, I do not suggest Wenweipo. I do, however, suggest the following 3 papers: Ming Pao Daily(in Chinese), South China Morning Post(English), and the Hong Kong Economic Journal (in Chinese)...they're the more non-biased papers existing in HK. PLUS, I have all 3 :D

Watch the video of the incident, one of the PAP officer maybe even the leader of the contingent, most likely a Uighur himself speaks in highly fluent Uighur to the single old woman there. According to a foreign news report, he eventually grabbed a piece of paper and wrote his name and serial number on it and gave it to the old woman.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/media/ALeqM5jbvo8N-zOM7dco3R5JL7wm9rkjww?size=l

[brandenvonbeneckendorff]

As a person who got his money stolen by an uighur and that piece of trash just get off the bus as if nothing is going to happen to him~ I wish they are taught a lesson, im fed up with those retarded murderous thieves!

[Laworkerbee]

As a person who got his money stolen by an uighur and that piece of trash just get off the bus as if nothing is going to happen to him~ I wish they are taught a lesson, im fed up with those retarded murderous thieves!

Way to brand millions of people "retarded murderous thieves" because you got your wallet stolen - which you can't even prove was done by a Uighur.

You're pathetic :cantbeli:

[brandenvonbeneckendorff]

Way to brand millions of people "retarded murderous thieves" because you got your wallet stolen - which you can't even prove was done by a Uighur.

You're pathetic :cantbeli:

coz he tried it, and i detected, and i turned my head, and i saw that pig face. and i made a loss anyway coz i threw that jacket which he touched coz i dont want his diseases get on me.

You can tell coz they look different, and they can carry a bloody knife in Beijing as if it's ok. let others to carry a knife see how long can u walk on the street without being taken away by the police.

Primitive culture = carrying a knife on the street stealing, selling shlt and threat u if u dont buy once u look at their trash

[Dexx]

If the Chinese on this board represent the majority of the "racial superior" Han Chinese, I am all for cutting all ties between Germany and China (eg. first and foremost all Chinese students in Germany need to be deported back to China). This tells us a lot more about some "Han" Chinese than about Uighurs (spl?).

[maoddd]

If the Chinese on this board represent the majority of the "racial superior" Han Chinese, I am all for cutting all ties between Germany and China (eg. first and foremost all Chinese students in Germany need to be deported back to China). This tells us a lot more about some "Han" Chinese than about Uighurs (spl?).
rofl xenophobia much?

oh boy look at that wasabi-meatball go nuts, and all the smear Op bots..

[Solvent]

If the Chinese on this board represent the majority of the "racial superior" Han Chinese, I am all for cutting all ties between Germany and China (eg. first and foremost all Chinese students in Germany need to be deported back to China). This tells us a lot more about some "Han" Chinese than about Uighurs (spl?).

Damn, hurt feelings, don't want to play with you no more.

[acosta]

seem to me he forgot something, we all learn world history, 600 millions, does it ring a bell?

if he represent the majority of german, i wish china dump all german cars and never contact with them, just by account of what they did in WWII.


Damn, hurt feelings, don't want to play with you no more.

[dttk0009]

If the Chinese on this board represent the majority of the "racial superior" Han Chinese, I am all for cutting all ties between Germany and China (eg. first and foremost all Chinese students in Germany need to be deported back to China). This tells us a lot more about some "Han" Chinese than about Uighurs (spl?).

Let's not paint all Chinese students in Germany with the brush dipped in the MP.net paint bucket, shall we? :) There is a lot of obvious racism in this thread. I'm not going to point fingers, but this is not something that's limited to nationality or race. It happens everywhere, every day. Unfortunately. Edit - Not directed at you, Dexx.

[cn_habs]

Way to brand millions of people "retarded murderous thieves" because you got your wallet stolen - which you can't even prove was done by a Uighur.

You're pathetic :cantbeli:

You are ridiculizing yourself here because you can't tell the difference between Han and Uighur just by looking at them. Of course there are also the Hui. Too much ignorance on these boards.

[Ordie]

You are ridiculizing yourself here because you can't tell the difference between Han and Uighur just by looking at them. Of course there are also the Hui. Too much ignorance on these boards.

Han, Uighur, Japanese, Hui, Indian are all Asians to me.

[Jiggy]

Too much ignorance on these boards.

yeah, and it's coming from people like you.

and "ridiculizing" isn't a word, also bee is right.

[Ordie]

Pacifying the Uighurs

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/roomfordebate/contributors/chung_peng.50.jpg
Chien-peng Chung (http://www.ln.edu.hk/polsci/staff-chung.php) is associate professor of political science at Lingnan University, in Hong Kong. He is the author of “Domestic Politics: International Bargaining, and China’s Territorial Disputes.”
Although no major incidents were reported on Wednesday, unlike the previous three days, most non-government establishments in Urumqi were closed for the entire day. The streets of Urumqi and other major Xinjiang cities were flooded with truckloads and columns of riot policemen, with soldiers massed along Urumqi’s roadsides and at Xinjiang’s military bases on high alert and ready for immediate deployment. Together with nightly curfews, this is a recommendable strategy to restore and maintain order for the time being.

The Chinese authorities cannot be perceived as favoring either the Han Chinese or the Uighurs as it moves to control the unrest.


With racial tension still in the air, the danger is that a pattern of attacks and counterattacks between armed Uighur and Han Chinese may emerge in the days to come, not only in Xinjiang, but also in large Chinese cities elsewhere. This would be difficult and tricky for government security forces to deal with. If the authorities crack down heavily on the protesting Uighurs, it could be seen as further discrimination against them, since most members of the security forces are Han Chinese. But if the authorities are to be equally or more tough on a Han Chinese mob, perception of official favoritism and appeasement toward minorities could incite further Han-on-Uighur violence everywhere.
It is important for the security forces to be perceived as fair and even-handed in preventing destructive acts or apprehending troublemakers. To calm public sentiments further, people who were arrested in connection with the riots over the past few days should either be quickly charged or released.
[/URL]
Despite allegations by the Chinese government that the protest on July 5 and riots were instigated, directed and organized from overseas, chiefly by the World Uyghur Congress, the authorities should be mindful that it is perfectly imaginable for Uighurs who had some experience with leadership roles in schools, factories, social groups, trade guilds, mosques, the Communist Youth League and even local Communist Party organizations to take the lead in mobilizing marches before allowing the crowds’ emotion to take over.
The arrests of several people on Tuesday in connection with the brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese workers at the toy factory in Shaoguan, Guangdong, on June 25, 2009, which led to the deaths of two Uighurs and was believed to have sparked off the July 5 riots, was a good start
to pacify Uighur sentiments.
However, other grievances broadly held by Uighurs should be addressed. The perception that economic development in Xinjiang aids Han Chinese at the expense of Uighurs cannot be allowed to continue. The government must look into effectively enforcing existing, and devising more, affirmative action policies to ensure that Uighurs do not feel marginalized. Muslim religious activities in Xinjiang could still be closely monitored for separatist or violent tendencies, but left to operate with minimum overt interference by the authorities.
Communist Party cadres should demonstrate respect for Muslim and other religious customs whenever possible in public. Travel restrictions to overseas destinations for Uighurs should be no different from those for other Chinese nationals.
Governments of countries around China and Xinjiang such as Russia, those of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India have their own problems with ethnic minorities, separatism and violence, so are very unlikely to support any separatist aspirations by Uighur or other ethnic minorities in China, and have in fact been enlisted as active partners in the fight against ethnic separatism, violence and religious fundamentalism. China’s foreign missions in many European countries were pelted with rocks by Uighur demonstrators yesterday, but the governments of these countries will not allow the situation to continue
Source:[url]http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/what-should-china-do-about-the-uighurs/?ref=asia (javascript:void(0);)

[Ordie]

Seeing China as a Colonizer

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/roomfordebate/contributors/stevan_harrell.50.jpg
Stevan Harrell, an anthropologist at the University of Washington, has collaborated with minority scholars from China for more than 20 years. He is author of “Ways of Being Ethnic in Southwest China.”
The 130 million members of China’s 55 officially designated minority groups have all the civil rights of full citizenship, and are even beneficiaries of affirmative action and less stringent birth planning regulations. They are also poorer, less educated, and less represented in Communist Party and government positions than are the majority Han Chinese.
Not all minority groups are the same. Most are citizens of no state but China and have never been independent nations. While all of these groups — which range in size from the Zhuang, with a population of 16 million, and the Hui Muslims, with 10 million, to the Lhoba, with only 3,000 members — have their conflicts with local Han and have at times demonstrated over Chinese state policies and the Han presence in their home areas, they have not developed political separatist movements.

Tibetans and Uighurs think that their nations, though officially viewed as part of China, should rightfully be independent.


The Tibetans and Uighurs (and perhaps the Mongols) are different. They are “minority nationalities,” peoples with historic and contemporary claims to nationhood. Historically, they have sometimes been ruled by a larger East Asian empire, and have sometimes been independent. Despite being officially included as citizens and members of the Chinese nation, many think that their nations are rightfully independent and not part of China.
Recent infusions of financial support from the government to develop their regional economies have not altered that sentiment. Not unlike the the Kikuyu in Kenya or the Bengalis in India, who prospered materially under British rule but were eager to be rid of it, rising standards of living among minority nationalities in China have not diminished their sense that they are an occupied people.
[/URL]
Both the Tibetans and Uighurs would probably choose to be independent of China. But most of them realize that this is almost certainly impossible in the foreseeable future, and many have accommodated to the current system, as do colonized peoples anywhere — they go to school, learn Chinese, migrate to Han areas to work and become local officials. Some even join the Communist Party and rise high in its ranks. But most continue to feel that their land is being held by an outside power.
The Chinese authorities may or may not realize this, but they do not accept it. For them, all minorities are fully — and only — Chinese citizens, and therefore must be loyal to the government and grateful for its largesse. There will never be much gratitude unless China’s leaders grant these groups real regional autonomy, guarantee freedom of religion, curb Han Chinese migration and stop their insulting rhetoric about underdeveloped minorities in need of help. But they won’t. So the unrest and discontent — at times exploding into the violence of the past few days — are bound to continue.



Source:[url]http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/what-should-china-do-about-the-uighurs/?ref=asia (javascript:void(0);)

[Ordie]

My Han Relatives’ View From Xinjiang

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/roomfordebate/contributors/yan_sun.50.jpg
Yan Sun (http://web.gc.cuny.edu/politicalscience/pages/faculty/m_z.htm#sun), a native of Sichuan, has lived in the United States since 1985 and been a professor of political science at the City University of New York since 1992.
After arriving at the home of my parents in Chongqing on July 7, I asked my mother how many relatives we still had in Xinjiang and how they were doing lately. Ten families of close relatives, she said, and several more distant ones. Some were born and raised in Xinjiang, but the majority migrated there in the 1960s and 1970s from the Sichuan countryside. The sole reason was to get out of the poor farmland and have a chance at becoming urban residents. They were introduced to Xinjiang by an aunt who was assigned there in the 1950s but had managed to bring her family back to Sichuan in the 1980s.

My relatives mostly see “outside forces” as the main reason for the latest as well as other riots in Xinjiang in recent years.


I scrambled to reach some of them by phone and talk to them candidly about the issues that are often cited in the Western media as responsible for growing ethnic divide and tensions between the Uighur and Han Chinese. Some of my cited reasons took them by surprise; others made them laugh. With their decades of life and work in an austere region, I have little reason to dispute them. As a social scientist, it is fascinating for me to learn about their perspective on the deeper roots of the recent riots. After all, they were supposed to be the very source and targets of local grievance.
Without any need to repeat government accounts to me, my relatives mostly see “outside forces” as the main reason for the latest as well as other riots in Xinjiang in recent years. Citing long-term good friendship with local Muslims, they are hard-pressed to think of divisions serious enough to cause deadly riots. Rather, they claim to have seen outside influences at work from their own experience, e.g., money for underground mosques where mullahs engage in inciting rhetoric, for “terrorist groups” that make explosives and bombs, or for restless Muslim youths who stage trouble on the streets. They also see a pattern of Uighur separatist forces imitating the tactics of Tibetan exiles, namely, phrasing issues in terms that appeal to Western sensibilities, such as religious freedom, cultural and linguistic preservation, ethnic equality or territorial autonomy.
[/URL]
But aren’t there problems in these areas? My relatives were unanimous in their view that state policies are already tilted in favor of local ethnics. Freedom of religion? My relatives see the state restrictions are justifiable: no mosques for those under 18 because they are not mature enough to have good judgment, and no mosque attendance for those holding government jobs. The state does send an (Uighur) official as a liaison with the mosques on a weekly basis, but again this is seen as justifiable since the state funds helped with their construction and to pay the mullahs’ salaries. Why not let them fund on their own? The answer is that outside religious forces would otherwise fund them. Having read about how foreign-financed madrassahs spring up and spread in western Pakistan, I am hard-pressed to pass judgment here.
How about the imposition of Chinese language instruction in schools? This was news to my relatives. They grew up attending separate schools from their Uighur peers, where different languages were used in instruction. Some Uighurs chose to attend Han Chinese schools for career benefits. Only since 2005 has bilingual education been introduced in public schools in Xinjiang. Most technical colleges use Chinese in instruction, because of available resources, while colleges for ethnic nationalities instruct in minority languages. Rather than seeing bilingual education as forced assimilation, my relatives see it as a good skill to have in the job market, because many modern-sector jobs will involve interaction with Han Chinese in and out of Xinjiang. For their part, my Xinjiang cousins speak enough Uighur to communicate with Uighurs on a daily basis, and tell me that they live more like Uighurs than Han Chinese, enjoying mutton more than pork.
What about widened income gaps between Han Chinese and Uighur Muslims in the market economy? My relatives cite different attitudes toward education, achievement and life. This is where some “racist” assessments may be found, if they may be so-called: nomadic traditions do not value sending kids to schools, but rather roaming around or bathing in the sun; nor do they prioritize professional and material pursuits like the Han Chinese, or hard work or long-term planning for this world, but rather satisfaction in the spiritual world, etc. These are the contrasts I have learned in Western social sciences — conflicts between pre-modern and modern values, religious and secular cultures, or an achievement and non-achievement ethic. So it is hard for me to pass judgment here as well except to urge Han Chinese to loosen up and enjoy life a little as our ethnic brothers do.
What about the squeezing of Uighurs in their own native land by growing Han presence? Is that occupation or colonialism? These lines usually shocked my relatives. One aunt, a college professor who spent three decades in Khotan of southern Xinjiang, gave me a history lesson about how Xinjiang came under Chinese control in the Han Dynasty in the 200s B.C. and remained so on and off till the Manchu Dynasty finally consolidated Chinese rule in the 1770s. Xinjiang was loose whenever China was weak internally and its rulers were preoccupied elsewhere.
But successive rulers always reasserted control and sovereignty. Another aunt who had lived in a Tibetan region called the Chinese nation a melting pot of different ethnic groups over millenniums. Citing our own ancestors who had migrated to Sichuan generations back, my mother recalls her grandmother as one with white skin and yellow hair, possible of Turkic origin herself from western China.
Are there government policies on minority regions responsible for increasing ethnic tensions? Surprisingly (or not so surprisingly for someone familiar with America’s ethnic politics), some of my relatives fault the government’s preferential policies for helping to enhance ethnic identity and entitlement for minorities. Uighurs with disciplinary problems or criminal offenses are treated leniently, they say. In matters of employment, appointment and promotion in the public sector, Uighurs may be preferred over (perceived) more qualified Han candidates. “Reverse discrimination” in college admissions and population policies are other areas of Han complaints. While Han Chinese can have only one child, Uighurs receive honorary and monetary rewards for stopping at three, along with yearly bonuses. Whether legitimate or not, such complaints make it difficult for Han Chinese to appreciate Uighur grievances.
Do they think the World Uighur Congress and its exiled leader, Rebiya Radeer, were behind the recent riots? My older relatives from Xinjiang recalled Soviet instigations of Uighur separatism in the 30s and during the cold war, so they said they would not be surprised by any outside support for the W.U.C. or Radeer. Younger relatives point to the U.S. — not the U.S. per se but to the exploitation of U.S. apprehension over anything Beijing does and of U.S. sympathies for any group that Beijing opposes. The real point of staging riots inside China, they assert, is that they enable the exiled groups to survive and thrive. So they expect such riots for years to come.



Source:[url]http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/what-should-china-do-about-the-uighurs/?ref=asia (javascript:void(0);)

[Dexx]

Let's not paint all Chinese students in Germany with the brush dipped in the MP.net paint bucket, shall we? :) There is a lot of obvious racism in this thread. I'm not going to point fingers, but this is not something that's limited to nationality or race. It happens everywhere, every day. Unfortunately. Edit - Not directed at you, Dexx.

Yeah, you are right, I apologize for the comment on the Chinese students. But somehow I was a little bit shocked. I always thought that the Chinese are peaceloving and hardworking people without any racial bull**** that came over my country in the 1930thies. But these threads on the Uighurs make me wonder if there is something under the surface of the Chinese "mask" that no one talks about but everyone knows that it is there: A feeling of racial superiority of Han Chinese.

[JCR]

I can understand chinese frustrations a bit.
While chinese authorities seem to react heavy handed and slow, this thing is not as one sided as it is seen in the western media.
The bitter truth is that with western spin doctors, similar riots in other countries have been "sold" to the international community without any fuss.

Also, it is strange that this feeling of "Überfremdung" according to media is absolutely evil in Germany while perfectly normal for Uigurs?
Basically if Germans start hunting migrants, it is racism, if Uigurs start hunting migrants, it is fighting for freedom?
Ok, the state is on the migrant's side in China, but still....

Same with Tibet last year. Legitimate grievances or not, an ethnic group started rioting and hunting down Han Chinese, and the west applauded.
How should the average Chinese feel about that?
Basically, if you start a race riot, make sure the targets are Han chinese, they're fair game.
This time the local chinese started rioting as well, but from what you see, chinese police used violence and mass arrests to curb Han unrest as well, which is hardly mentioned by our press because it would spoil the idea of a unified chinese action against an ethnic minority.

Of course China's internal policies are not comparable with western ideas and their insistence that some exile organisations are behind this is ridiculous. From what I read between the lines, this started virally, because of internet videos and pictures of a racist attack by Han Chinese on Uigurs in south China. No need for any elaborate organisations, just some stupid chinese putting racist material on the web. Both sides have internet there.

But western reporting IS biased the same way, which is even scarier because we don't have a ministry of truth or something.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Yeah, you are right, I apologize for the comment on the Chinese students. But somehow I was a little bit shocked. I always thought that the Chinese are peaceloving and hardworking people without any racial bull**** that came over my country in the 1930thies. But these threads on the Uighurs make me wonder if there is something under the surface of the Chinese "mask" that no one talks about but everyone knows that it is there: A feeling of racial superiority of Han Chinese.

You have got to be kidding.:cantbeli:Racism is a deeply entrenched element of Chinese society and culture.

Surely you don't believe that only white people can be racist?

[King of the Grey]

But western reporting IS biased the same way, which is even scarier because we don't have a ministry of truth or something.thats how media works, Western or Eastern, no difference. Those who can manipulate information to their own needs wins the day. The best way to counter this, is for the public to become media-literate, able to come up with their own independent views regardless of what the majority news is saying.

There will be biased reports, but there will also be credible reports. Understand that, and you will know where to find your sources.


Racism is a deeply entrenched element of Chinese society and culture. Oh, really? I thought racism is a human thing? :bash:

[a_very_ex_STAB]

thats how media works, Western or Eastern, no difference. Those who can manipulate information to their own needs wins the day. The best way to counter this, is for the public to become media-literate, able to come up with their own independent views regardless of what the majority news is saying.

There will be biased reports, but there will also be credible reports. Understand that, and you will know where to find your sources.

Oh, really? I thought racism is a human thing? :bash:

No sh1t Sherlock - reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points is it :roll:

Are you one of those literal minded numpties for whom everything has to spelt out in short words, with as few syllables as possible and preferably in VERY LARGE LETTERS?

[4ever]

http://www.youtube.com/v/axP7u_Txk10

[Sapporo]

Revenge?

It was Uyghurs who died....WTH?

The majority of the dead were Hans. You know that right?

[cn_habs]

Han, Uighur, Japanese, Hui, Indian are all Asians to me.

Then you really have time to waste on matters you know barely anything about. It's like a Chinese saying that he can't tell a typical Italian from a Scandinavian. If you can't see the differences of between races from the vids, no wonder your opinions are "insert something lhere"

[GemiPiggy]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77885&stc=1&d=1247152611

[GemiPiggy]

Now it's clear that how west media make a report:
Is one side US/Europe? OK, this side is justice.
Otherwise, is one side the US/Europe‘s important allies, e.g. India, Japan? OK, he is justice.
Otherwise, is one side on whose land there are US troopers? OK, this side is justice.
Otherwise, the one smaller is justice.




Then you really have time to waste on matters you know barely anything about. It's like a Chinese saying that he can't tell a typical Italian from a Scandinavian. If you can't see the differences of between races from the vids, no wonder your opinions are "insert something lhere"

[magantosh]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77885&stc=1&d=1247152611

seems he is going to have Beijing duck, or he has the same feeling as Han Chinese? :)

[Dexx]

Now it's clear that how west media make a report:
Is one side US/Europe? OK, this side is justice.
Otherwise, is one side the US/Europe‘s important allies, e.g. India, Japan? OK, he is justice.
Otherwise, is one side on whose land there are US troopers? OK, this side is justice.
Otherwise, the one smaller is justice.

Cry me a river. And to your pic: Your supernatural powers seem to make you look through an unclear pic and those aviator sunglasses...

Chinese propagandists are out in full force and have their hands full with a Chinese style damadge control which may be useful towards your own population but not in open societies. Try again...

[GemiPiggy]

The difference is the Han can have only clubs but the Uxxx (dont know how to spell it) have knives.

And never forget the time these people came out is after hundreds of Hans been throat-cut or knock to death at head.


Cry me a river. And to your pic: Your supernatural powers seem to make you look through an unclear pic and those aviator sunglasses...

Chinese propagandists are out in full force and have their hands full with a Chinese style damadge control which may be useful towards your own population but not in open societies. Try again...

[matthew.manhorn]

Chinese government = bad
Chinese communist party = bad

and now Han Chinese are bad :S, the generalization seems to shrink towards a specific group

[GemiPiggy]

No, it's not true.
When there was still a country called USSR, China, after some serious conflict with this giant, is good to the west.


Chinese government = bad
Chinese communist party = bad

and now Han Chinese are bad :S, the generalization seems to shrink towards a specific group

[GemiPiggy]

Watch this video, contact an Asian if you can, and ask him/her whether the dead and injured are Han or Uxxx. It's from a korean source (of course, if you don't believe this, just think it's from an unknown source). Many media have post some picture from this video. E.g. the london evening said two girls were attacked by the police (at 2'10"). note this video was token on Jul 5th. Before the Han's vengeance

Warn: very scaring.
http://chxiao.com/wlmq.flv




Cry me a river. And to your pic: Your supernatural powers seem to make you look through an unclear pic and those aviator sunglasses...

Chinese propagandists are out in full force and have their hands full with a Chinese style damadge control which may be useful towards your own population but not in open societies. Try again...

[Ordie]

No, it's not true.
When there was still a country called USSR, China, after some serious conflict with this giant, is good to the west.

President Nixon and Henry Kissenger understood that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Zhou Enlai and Mao equally understood this as well.

[Solvent]

No, it's not true.
When there was still a country called USSR, China, after some serious conflict with this giant, is good to the west.

Man, seriously, do you even what he is talking about?

[Ordie]

Chinese government = bad
Chinese communist party = bad

and now Han Chinese are bad :S, the generalization seems to shrink towards a specific group

It easy to dismiss this as a Uighur vs. Han issue.

But the fact of the matter is that China as a whole is a very fraglie country. There is a large rural underclass population struggling to make ends meet at the same time you have an upward moving self absorbed urban population.

[GemiPiggy]

It easy to dismiss this as a Uighur vs. Han issue.

But the fact of the matter is that China as a whole is a very fraglie country. There is a large rural underclass population struggling to make ends meet at the same time you have an upward moving self absorbed urban population.

So, is that the reason that China should suffer from riots?

It's no doubt that China's level of democracy is much lower than west countries. But is that the reason for the Uxxxx to attack the Hans?

We all know civilization is a good thing, but how good is it to the native Americans who are called Indians?

[Smiling_Wolf]

So, is that the reason that China should suffer from riots?

It's no doubt that China's level of democracy is much lower than west countries. But is that the reason for the Uxxxx to attack the Hans?

We all know civilization is a good thing, but how good is it to the native Americans who are called Indians?

China will continue to suffer as long as the government, and the Chinese in the cities, continue to discriminate and forget their poor brothers and sisters in the countryside; they leave the rural poor no alternative but to either die, or violently resist. Which option do you think they'll choose?

Same problem with the Uyghurs - do you think they have the right to live as well off as you? That's probably the more important question, because the Uyghurs don't think they have that right, mainly because they are a small ethnic minority compared to the Hans dominating their province, who take their jobs and decide local government policy without their permission. Open your ears and eyes friend, and see things from their point of view.

And Native Americans have nothing to do with this discussion - don't try to distract from the topic at hand.

[Ordie]

So, is that the reason that China should suffer from riots?

It's no doubt that China's level of democracy is much lower than west countries. But is that the reason for the Uxxxx to attack the Hans?

We all know civilization is a good thing, but how good is it to the native Americans who are called Indians?

Its all about competition for jobs, housing, education, business, opportunities and power.

When one side views the other side with an unfair advantage, tensions arises.

The Uighurs see the Han migrants come, they feel threatened of being pushed out and get angry.

The Hans see the Uighurs be given exemptions of many polices, they feel cheated and get angry.

There is an identical situation happening here in Oakland California.
(Henry Fork may jump in)

East Oakland was a working class predominatly African American neighborhood. Many of the middle class people had left for the suburbs, the one's left behind are poor with a lot of shootings and crime. Empty storefronts, many Baptist Churches and Palestinian owned liquor stores.

In recent years, there has been an increased wave of Mexican immigrants (both legal and undocumented) moving into East Oakland. New stores and shops are opening and revitalizing the neighborhood. The African American community feels threatened, and the immigrants fears being victims of crimes.

Needless to say tensions are high. I witnessed several altercations between the Mexicans and the Blacks on buses and within stores. The locally elected policticans see this and encouraging the two communities to start talking. Local grassroots organizations and churches are taking pro-active steps to mitigate the tensions. The Black Baptist Churches are setting up Spanish langauge ministries, and the Mexicans are hiring locals.

The tensions are still there, and will always be there, but the initiative is there to reduce it.

The key is to encourage and foster independant civil society to develop at the local level.

Unfortunately in China, you have the CCP that discourages independant volunteer efforts because they fear competition and losing legitimacy.

Sadly, CCP had done a poor job in preventing and mitigating the tensions.

[GBob]

So, is that the reason that China should suffer from riots?

It's no doubt that China's level of democracy is much lower than west countries. But is that the reason for the Uxxxx to attack the Hans?

We all know civilization is a good thing, but how good is it to the native Americans who are called Indians?
My... ! you an adult? I wouldn't guess it's the matter of your English, but something basic logic, right or wrong. Of course It is not the reason for Uighers to attack Hans, but it is absolute reason for your lack of basic moral sense. what a bunch!

[BearInBunnySuit]

Watch this video, contact an Asian if you can, and ask him/her whether the dead and injured are Han or Uxxx. It's from a korean source (of course, if you don't believe this, just think it's from an unknown source). Many media have post some picture from this video. E.g. the london evening said two girls were attacked by the police (at 2'10"). note this video was token on Jul 5th. Before the Han's vengeance

Warn: very scaring.
http://chxiao.com/wlmq.flv

If that video is the same one posted here http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4254500&postcount=206, the source is not Korean, it is the Xinjiang Autonomous Government that provided the footage. The Korean newspaper just posted the video on its Web site but made it clear that it is not responsible for the content or the message.

[GemiPiggy]

So what's your solution? to expel all the Hans, who take up 41% of the Xinjiang's population?

The reality of Xinjiang is Han and Uyghur have almost equal population in Xinjiang. (Uyghur‘s percentage is 47% ).

The history of Xinjiang is that Uyghur is far from the natives of Xinjiang. When Han, Kazakh and Hui came to Xinjiang much earlier then Uyghur.


Its all about competition for jobs, housing, education, business, opportunities and power.

When one side views the other side with an unfair advantage, tensions arises.

The Uighurs see the Han migrants come, they feel threatened of being pushed out and get angry.

The Hans see the Uighurs be given exemptions of many polices, they feel cheated and get angry.

There is an identical situation happening here in Oakland California.
(Henry Fork may jump in)

East Oakland was a working class predominatly African American neighborhood. Many of the middle class people had left for the suburbs, the one's left behind are poor with a lot of shootings and crime. Empty storefronts, many Baptist Churches and Palestinian owned liquor stores.

In recent years, there has been an increased wave of Mexican immigrants (both legal and undocumented) moving into East Oakland. New stores and shops are opening and revitalizing the neighborhood. The African American community feels threatened, and the immigrants fears being victims of crimes.

Needless to say tensions are high. I witnessed several altercations between the Mexicans and the Blacks on buses and within stores. The locally elected policticans see this and encouraging the two communities to start talking. Local grassroots organizations and churches are taking pro-active steps to mitigate the tensions. The Black Baptist Churches are setting up Spanish langauge ministries, and the Mexicans are hiring locals.

The tensions are still there, and will always be there, but the initiative is there to reduce it.

The key is to encourage and foster independant civil society to develop at the local level.

Unfortunately in China, you have the CCP that discourages independant volunteer efforts because they fear competition and losing legitimacy.

Sadly, CCP had done a poor job in preventing and mitigating the tensions.

[GemiPiggy]

Dose your moral sense mean even if Hans are attacked by Islamic extremists, they are still going to be condemned?


My... ! you an adult? I wouldn't guess it's the matter of your English, but something basic logic, right or wrong. Of course It is not the reason for Uighers to attack Hans, but it is absolute reason for your lack of basic moral sense. what a bunch!

[Karaahmetoglu]

So what's your solution? to expel all the Hans, who take up 41% of the Xinjiang's population?

The reality of Xinjiang is Han and Uyghur have almost equal population in Xinjiang. (Uyghur‘s percentage is 47% ).

The history of Xinjiang is that Uyghur is far from the natives of Xinjiang. When Han, Kazakh and Hui came to Xinjiang much earlier then Uyghur.


The classic we where here before you! BTW East Turkestan is Uyghur home land, they where their before anyone else. Trust me on that the other ethnic groups this guy listed have homes else where Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, Han in eastern China. And don't make it sound like the Kazakhs and Hui love you guys, Hui where brutally massacred for revolting long before the PRC though, Kazakhs don't like Uyghurs much but they do not like the Han Chinese very much either.

[Elbs]

I hope cooler heads can prevail and people start to chill out in China. There's been enough dead on both sides. :|

[GemiPiggy]

I'd never said Hui loves Han. In fact, in the history, there was deep animosity among all these four tribe. All these four have played roles both of sheep and wolf.


The classic we where here before you! BTW East Turkestan is Uyghur home land, they where their before anyone else. Trust me on that the other ethnic groups this guy listed have homes else where Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, Han in eastern China. And don't make it sound like the Kazakhs and Hui love you guys, Hui where brutally massacred for revolting long before the PRC though, Kazakhs don't like Uyghurs much but they do not like the Han Chinese very much either.

[Smiling_Wolf]

So what's your solution? to expel all the Hans, who take up 41% of the Xinjiang's population?

Um, you clearly didn't read all of Ordie's post - his proposed solution is right there, in the last third of his message.

And learn to relax, friend, we all agree that the deaths on both sides were terrible.

[turan8]

Han 40+% of population? Of course due to China's jerrymandering and immigration policies, 1949 they were only 6% of population, you can see the problem.

[killer_whale]

The classic we where here before you! BTW East Turkestan is Uyghur home land, they where their before anyone else. Trust me on that the other ethnic groups this guy listed have homes else where Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, Han in eastern China. And don't make it sound like the Kazakhs and Hui love you guys, Hui where brutally massacred for revolting long before the PRC though, Kazakhs don't like Uyghurs much but they do not like the Han Chinese very much either.

Do you Know the word "Urumqi" means "beautiful pasture" in the Mongolian language of the Dzungar people?

The north Xinjiang is the western mongolian Dzungar‘s homeland. Kazakh, Uyghur and Han people move to the north Xinjiang after manchulian drove out the Dzungar.

Today, over 150,000 mongolian still live in Xinjiang.

BTW, my grandmother is mongolian. My wife is manchulian and her grandmother is Hui.

[cn_habs]

Han 40+% of population? Of course due to China's jerrymandering and immigration policies, 1949 they were only 6% of population, you can see the problem.

No one's perfect and the government should have handled this matter more smoothly.

How about the kurds that you killed and displaced everywhere in Turkey? One of your ministers made a complete foul of himself in front of the whole world with his unfunded declarations. The Han was the victim during the riots organized by the Uyghur and suffered most of the casualties. Most of the biggest races have always tried to control the smaller ones throughout the history of the mankind in order to keep the stability of the country. It will never change as long as you do it while respecting them. Just look at what the Russians, Europeans and Americans have accomplished in the past century.


As long as they don't create any trouble, the Uyghur will be left alone like so many other ethnic groups since the government has plenty of other priorities at the same time. The foreign fundings that they receive won't When they get so many benefits and welfare and if they don't behave peacefully...Things will get ugly no matter how much false evidence some can represent.


BTW, no one has ever blamed the Uyghur for the murder of Han Chinese women and kids. The outside world have blamed the Chinese who seem to have mishandled every single thing. For a lot of you, it's ok to kill civilians .. provided they are Han Chinese of course.

We officially became the Jews of the 21st century.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Do you Know the word "Urumqi" means "beautiful pasture" in the Mongolian language of the Dzungar people?

The north Xinjiang is the western mongolian Dzungar‘s homeland. Kazakh, Uyghur and Han people move to the north Xinjiang after manchulian drove out the Dzungar.

Today, over 150,000 mongolian still live in Xinjiang.

BTW, my grandmother is mongolian. My wife is manchulian and her grandmother is Hui.

Uyghur and Mongolian are close there is a very good chance the name is the same in both Languages. The Ergenekon valley/Altay Mountains in Mongolia is the Homeland of all Turkic people.

No one's perfect and the government should have handled this matter more smoothly.

How about the kurds that you killed and displaced everywhere in Turkey? One of your ministers made a complete foul of himself in front of the whole world with his unfunded declarations. The Han was the victim during the riots organized by the Uyghur and suffered most of the casualties. Most of the biggest races have always tried to control the smaller ones throughout the history of the mankind in order to keep the stability of the country. It will never change as long as you do it while respecting them. Just look at what the Russians, Europeans and Americans have accomplished in the past century.


As long as they don't create any trouble, the Uyghur will be left alone like so many other ethnic groups since the government has plenty of other priorities at the same time. The foreign fundings that they receive won't When they get so many benefits and welfare and if they don't behave peacefully...Things will get ugly no matter how much false evidence some can represent.


BTW, no one has ever blamed the Uyghur for the murder of Han Chinese women and kids. The outside world have blamed the Chinese who seem to have mishandled every single thing. For a lot of you, it's ok to kill civilians .. provided they are Han Chinese of course.

We officially became the Jews of the 21st century.



You have become an expert on Turkey by just being pissed at the Uyghurs?

The innocent Kurds in Turkey have not been massacred, the Kurds that are dying are the terrorist ones hiding in caves. When not in Caves in the mountains in the South East they are usually planting bombs in garbage cans in crowded places around Turkey. Last year they blew up a bomb in my neighborhood in Istanbul some 1.5m away from my house. The only innocent Kurds are dying are because of the terrorist Kurds.


Secondly to compare yourself to what happened to the Jews in the 20 century is offending to Jews, they where slaughtered I do not see the same thing happening to you guys in the numbers as it did to the Jews in the 20 century.


As long as the Ughurs do not create trouble they will be left alone?

Yes they will be left alone, but they have make room for the Han Chinese in there homeland so that they can become a minority and have no say.So eventually there language will be fazed out as well.

[cn_habs]

Uyghur and Mongolian are close there is a very good chance the name is the same in both Languages. The Ergenekon valley/Altay Mountains in Mongolia is the Homeland of all Turkic people.



You have become an expert on Turkey by just being pissed at the Uyghurs?

The innocent Kurds in Turkey have not been massacred, the Kurds that are dying are the terrorist ones hiding in caves. When not in Caves in the mountains in the South East they are usually planting bombs in garbage cans in crowded places around Turkey. Last year they blew up a bomb in my neighborhood in Istanbul some 1.5m away from my house. [b/The only innocent Kurds are dying are because of the terrorist Kurds. [/b]

As long as the Ughurs do not create trouble they will be left alone?

Yes they will be left alone, but they have make room for the Han Chinese in there homeland so that they can become a minority and have no say.So eventually there language will be fazed out as well.

How much more objective can you be :)? So no one's been assimiliating the Kurds? Last time I checked, situation isn't much more brighter than what's been happening over here.

So do you believe that there has been no bombings and terrorists attacks in Xinjiang?

For your benefict, they even blew their own race up when they premedicated the bombing attack of the police station. Xinjiang is the only place where you see terrorists attacks in China and guess what? I simply know more than you concerning these matters b/c I have relatives who live there.

The area is simply messed up and has little to no order compared to other Chinese terroteries. You'll be amazed by the crime rate over there. For example, some Uyghur thief blew an Uyghur taxi driver's brain out for miserable 5 dollars not so long ago. I can go on for hours.

Boycotting Chinese products b/c the minority of dead are Uyghur will get you no sympathy at all. The next thing you know, encouraging separitist movements is a serious offense to China's national sovreignty and integrity and nothing good will come out of it. That minister of yours only wants more popularity among tools


Secondly to compare yourself to what happened to the Jews in the 20 century is offending to Jews, they where slaughtered I do not see the same thing happening to you guys in the numbers as it did to the Jews in the 20 century.My point was that some are trying to make China the sole scapegoat for everything that's happening. We are partially responsible for the social unrest for sure but is it fair to make us the only bad guys?

Do you have any idea how many Chinese were killed by foreign countries in the 20th century? Guess what, way more than the Jews. Had we been more united as those Jews, we wouldn't be where we are right now. So kudos to them BTW.

[dttk0009]

Secondly to compare yourself to what happened to the Jews in the 20 century is offending to Jews, they where slaughtered I do not see the same thing happening to you guys in the numbers as it did to the Jews in the 20 century.

I'm sorry, that's wrong. The Chinese people lived through horror and 40 million of them perished under Mao's regime. The difference is no one came to save them.

[Karaahmetoglu]

How much more objective can you be :)? So no one's been assimiliating the Kurds? Last time I checked, situation isn't much more brighter than what's been happening over here.

So do you believe that there has been no bombings and terrorists attacks in Xinjiang?

For your benefict, they even blew their own race up when they premedicated the bombing attack of the police station. Xinjiang is the only place where you see terrorists attacks in China and guess what? I simply know more than you concerning these matters b/c I have relatives who live there.

The area is simply messed up and has little to no order compared to other Chinese terroteries. You'll be amazed by the crime rate over there. For example, some Uyghur thief blew an Uyghur taxi driver's brain out for miserable 5 dollars not so long ago. I can go on for hours.

Boycotting Chinese products b/c the minority of dead are Uyghur will get you no sympathy at all. The next thing you know, encouraging separatist movements is a serious offense to China's national sovereignty and integrity and nothing good will come out of it. That minister of yours only wants more popularity among tools

My point was that some are trying to make China the sole scapegoat for everything that's happening. We are partially responsible for the social unrest for sure but is it fair to make us the only bad guys?

Do you have any idea how many Chinese were killed by foreign countries in the 20th century? Guess what, way more than the Jews. Had we been more united as those Jews, we wouldn't be where we are right now. So kudos to them BTW.

No I did not question how much you know about East Turkestan I questioned how much you know about Turkey, and guess what it is very little. Assimilating Kurds my ass, they moved from the South East out to other places in Turkey, they also toke there language with them, now I constantly hear Kurdish being spoken in Istanbul and I have no problem with that. Quite pulling the Kurd card out, Kurds are very different people. Today on all Turkish newspapers it was reported that if N.Iraq Kurdish government cannot get independence from the Arabs they would like to join with Turkey. I do not know how true this is but it is on all of the newspapers, usually when there is a lie in a Turkish newspaper it is on a select few owned by the same guy. If the Kurds felt threatened by Turkey such a thing would never even be printed on newspapers. Kurds have there own t.v channels, Kurds can speak there own language, and live anyway they want unless they want to do terriost activities. Please do not lecture me on my own countries minority ethnic situation, for I am one of them (Georgian) . Unlike in China all the other ethnic minorities in Turkey are loyal to Turkey, PKK did not start out as a Kurdish seperatist group it was a Marxist terrorist group (still is just with that Kurdish element in it), and it had people from all over Turkey in it. Another thing about the PKK is that it started out with a lot of foreign influence, the creator Abdullah Ocalan was a political science student, and my Turkish professor friend of mine in Canada told me when he thought at a University in Turkey, the political science professors could always be found in communist embassies. No one outside of China is provoking the Uyghurs at least no one other then Uyghurs are provoking it.

I'm sorry, that's wrong. The Chinese people lived through horror and 40 million of them perished under Mao's regime. The difference is no one came to save them.

Probably why the guy is regarded as a national hero in China. :roll:


And he said Chinese are the jews of the 21st century Mao died long before the 21st century. Read carefully.


Rest In Peace

[turan8]

How much more objective can you be :)? So no one's been assimiliating the Kurds? Last time I checked, situation isn't much more brighter than what's been happening over here.

So do you believe that there has been no bombings and terrorists attacks in Xinjiang?

For your benefict, they even blew their own race up when they premedicated the bombing attack of the police station. Xinjiang is the only place where you see terrorists attacks in China and guess what? I simply know more than you concerning these matters b/c I have relatives who live there.

The area is simply messed up and has little to no order compared to other Chinese terroteries. You'll be amazed by the crime rate over there. For example, some Uyghur thief blew an Uyghur taxi driver's brain out for miserable 5 dollars not so long ago. I can go on for hours.

Boycotting Chinese products b/c the minority of dead are Uyghur will get you no sympathy at all. The next thing you know, encouraging separitist movements is a serious offense to China's national sovreignty and integrity and nothing good will come out of it. That minister of yours only wants more popularity among tools

My point was that some are trying to make China the sole scapegoat for everything that's happening. We are partially responsible for the social unrest for sure but is it fair to make us the only bad guys?

Do you have any idea how many Chinese were killed by foreign countries in the 20th century? Guess what, way more than the Jews. Had we been more united as those Jews, we wouldn't be where we are right now. So kudos to them BTW.

Kurds population has been steadily increasing in every district they are in as well as their political power because Turkey doesn't attempt jerrymandering of districts or population diluting like the Han. Uighurs have gone from 94% of population in their districts to Less than 50 % in some. That's way they're angry.

[killer_whale]

Uyghur and Mongolian are close there is a very good chance the name is the same in both Languages. The Ergenekon valley/Altay Mountains in Mongolia is the Homeland of all Turkic people.




NO, Urumqi is not a turkic name but a mongolian.
Yes, the Uyghur were from the Mongolia.
But Tang Dynasty had control Xinjiang, old name is Xiyu, for a long time before the Uyghur were defeated by Kyrgyz and left the Mongolia.

[Ordie]

old name is Xiyu, for a long time before the Uyghur were defeated by Kyrgyz and left the Mongolia.

How Barbaric

[cn_habs]

And he said Chinese are the jews of the 21st century Mao died long before the 21st century. Read carefully.


Rest In Peace


Last time I checked, we are in year 2009.

[cn_habs]

Kurds population has been steadily increasing in every district they are in as well as their political power because Turkey doesn't attempt jerrymandering of districts or population diluting like the Han. Uighurs have gone from 94% of population in their districts to Less than 50 % in some. That's way they're angry.

Only if they knew how to start a strong economy with honest and hard work. Just take a look at what most countries between the EU and China have in common in terms of national overall development and strength.

Did you know that the current government policies put the Han at a considerable disadvantage compared with the Uyghur? I wonder if the Turkish do it. Show me proof where the local population has decreased at all with all those Uyghur-pleasing regulations.

A lot of Hans there are simply migrants that come from the country side and work way harder so they can compete with the Uyghur. Did you know that the population of most area has increased due to the migration of those workers. My home town's pop doubled because of the migrants that come from the inner less-developped provinces?

[turan8]

Only if they knew how to start a strong economy with honest and hard work. Just take a look at what most countries between the EU and China have in common in terms of national overall development and strength.

Did you know that the current government policies put the Han at a considerable disadvantage compared with the Uyghur? I wonder if the Turkish do it. Show me proof where the local population has decreased at all with all those Uyghur-pleasing regulations.

A lot of Hans there are simply migrants that come from the country side and work way harder so they can compete with the Uyghur. Did you know that the population of most area has increased due to the migration of those workers. My home town's pop doubled because of the migrants that come from the inner less-developped provinces?

Oh, so the Han population increasing 10x the amount in relation to the Uighur population is just "hard work" by the Han? That is a pretty racist statement. I call bull****.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Last time I checked, we are in year 2009.

Yeah that is what i just said.


You said:
Chinese are are the Jews of the 21st century.

I Said:
Very offensive thing to say thing to say, you have not suffered as much as the Jews. You are blowing this out of proportion.

Some Guy from Thailand said:
Mao killed 40 million Chinese (Rest In Peace).

I said:
Yeah but he said 21st century, and that was his own people, he is regarded as a hero in china.

You said:
Last I checked it is the year 2009


So you tell me where you comment fits in to this?

[Super Sheep]

you have not suffered as much as the Jews

Absolute bull****, every thing suffered by the Jew has equally been felt by us Chinese. Although our suffering has been less systematic and perhaps less documented and talked about in the West, does not mean "not suffered as much".....

How can you put a ranking over the amount of suffering?

Great arrogant and ignorant statement. Not surprising coming from a individual from Turkey, considering your Turkey's track record over the Armenian Genocide.

[dttk0009]

No I did not question how much you know about East Turkestan I questioned how much you know about Turkey, and guess what it is very little. Assimilating Kurds my ass, they moved from the South East out to other places in Turkey, they also toke there language with them, now I constantly hear Kurdish being spoken in Istanbul and I have no problem with that. Quite pulling the Kurd card out, Kurds are very different people. Today on all Turkish newspapers it was reported that if N.Iraq Kurdish government cannot get independence from the Arabs they would like to join with Turkey. I do not know how true this is but it is on all of the newspapers, usually when there is a lie in a Turkish newspaper it is on a select few owned by the same guy. If the Kurds felt threatened by Turkey such a thing would never even be printed on newspapers. Kurds have there own t.v channels, Kurds can speak there own language, and live anyway they want unless they want to do terriost activities. Please do not lecture me on my own countries minority ethnic situation, for I am one of them (Georgian) . Unlike in China all the other ethnic minorities in Turkey are loyal to Turkey, PKK did not start out as a Kurdish seperatist group it was a Marxist terrorist group (still is just with that Kurdish element in it), and it had people from all over Turkey in it. Another thing about the PKK is that it started out with a lot of foreign influence, the creator Abdullah Ocalan was a political science student, and my Turkish professor friend of mine in Canada told me when he thought at a University in Turkey, the political science professors could always be found in communist embassies. No one outside of China is provoking the Uyghurs at least no one other then Uyghurs are provoking it.


Probably why the guy is regarded as a national hero in China. :roll:


And he said Chinese are the jews of the 21st century Mao died long before the 21st century. Read carefully.


Rest In Peace
You're right. I realized that shortly after making my post.p-)

[cn_habs]

The Chinese are the Jews of the 21st century.In this century that we call the 21st century, I meant that we have been blamed entirely for what has been going on inside and outside China whether it was provoked by others and premeditated with outside help and funding. In other words, in this century, like the Jews have been in the past, China has been pointed out and criticized for things that were out of her control and reach although she is far from perfect.

The Jewish did not just suffer from genocide in case you didn't know. There were the scapegoat for everything that went wrong for quite a while now. Whose ignorance is insulting the Jews now?

Know some world history besides yours please. If you don't get what I meant, then let someone else take a look.

I can't believe that some Turkish are lecturing the Chinese when it comes to human rights, etc. Are you that better?

BTW, 40 M is way out of proportion. Many of us would have noticed had our relatives disappeared for no reason. If you can do your math, you would have realized 40M back in those days was quite a large percentage compared with the population back then. You simply assume too much.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

[dttk0009]

The Jewish did not just suffer from genocide in case you didn't know.


Of course they did. I've seen the evidence. They weren't the only ones to suffer during WWII, but suffer they did, and from genocide, nonetheless. The Chinese shared that blight with them at the hands of the Japanese. There's plenty of evidence for that too. I'll agree that China has been portrayed in a more negative light by Western media outlets over the course of the last decade, but that is not the be all and end all. In Thailand, for example, China is portrayed in a positive light almost all the time.

[Solvent]

In this century that we call the 21st century, I meant that we have been blamed entirely for what has been going on inside and outside China whether it was provoked by others and premeditated with outside help and funding. In other words, in this century, like the Jews have been in the past, China has been pointed out and criticized for things that were out of her control and reach although she is far from perfect.

The Jewish did not just suffer from genocide in case you didn't know. There were the scapegoat for everything that went wrong for quite a while now. Whose ignorance is insulting the Jews now?

Know some world history besides yours please. If you don't get what I meant, then let someone else take a look.

I can't believe that some Turkish are lecturing the Chinese when it comes to human rights, etc. Are you that better?

BTW, 40 M is way out of proportion. Many of us would have noticed had our relatives disappeared for no reason. If you can do your math, you would have realized 40M back in those days was quite a large percentage compared with the population back then. You simply assume too much.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Bro, we are muck luckier than Jews. They didn't even have a country to put the hearts on when they suffered the most. At least, we always get something to fight for. What other people say doesn't matter too much, especially ignorance and bias comments.

[GBob]

In this century that we call the 21st century, I meant that we have been blamed entirely for what has been going on inside and outside China whether it was provoked by others and premeditated with outside help and funding. In other words, in this century, like the Jews have been in the past, China has been pointed out and criticized for things that were out of her control and reach although she is far from perfect.

The Jewish did not just suffer from genocide in case you didn't know. There were the scapegoat for everything that went wrong for quite a while now. Whose ignorance is insulting the Jews now?

Know some world history besides yours please. If you don't get what I meant, then let someone else take a look.

I can't believe that some Turkish are lecturing the Chinese when it comes to human rights, etc. Are you that better?

BTW, 40 M is way out of proportion. Many of us would have noticed had our relatives disappeared for no reason. If you can do your math, you would have realized 40M back in those days was quite a large percentage compared with the population back then. You simply assume too much.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
It has to be frank to the point, talking about human right, no one could be worse than China, every single figure related human suffering will beat the world record. There're tons of historical documents openning to the public already, a very small part of all though, but it well enough gives proofs such as 40 million deaths in so-called 3 years' feminine only. let's put it this way, if a chinese wants to compete for the most miserable lives, most indignity, most unjustice, most chaotic societies,most death tolls ever, and absolet current population living under the extreme poverty line...etc., i would bet that no one could dare to come challenging Chinese. it is just a simple truth, history is not commies text book any more, be reasonable to the world, China is not strong enough to be a centre of the world yet and far from that. try to let chinese live like human first, way to go...

[GemiPiggy]

mingpao, a Hongkong media, cites a official report say:
The total dead raised to 184, 137 Hans, 46 Uyghur and 1 Hui.

Mingpao, in another report also says, 200+ people reported cases to the official "7.5" working group. 2/3 among the cases are reporting missing of persons, suggesting the final number of death may be a double of current number.
http://specials.mingpao.com/cfm/News.cfm?SpecialsID=197&Page=1&News=aeaa006dbd7b4065ceac2267f6995143ebbe00477498414fe3ea8a48

【明報專訊】（今晨1時半消息）官方新華社公布，今次新疆騷亂造成184人死亡，其中137人是漢人，46人是維吾爾族人，1人是回族人。

http://specials.mingpao.com/cfm/News.cfm?SpecialsID=197&News=aeaa006dbd7b4061ceac2267f6995543ebba00477498414be3ee8a48

　官方新華社今日凌晨將死亡人數由早前156人修訂為184人。官方「7‧5」事件善後工作組，日前向媒體透露，截至前日，共有200多個案家屬前來登記，其中三分之二為失蹤者，數字意味死亡人數可能倍增。

[GemiPiggy]

Among the 40 million, how many are just killed by the imagination of the ones who wish the number to be big?

It has to be frank to the point, talking about human right, no one could be worse than China, every single figure related human suffering will beat the world record. There're tons of historical documents openning to the public already, a very small part of all though, but it well enough gives proofs such as 40 million deaths in so-called 3 years' feminine only. let's put it this way, if a chinese wants to compete for the most miserable lives, most indignity, most unjustice, most chaotic societies,most death tolls ever, and absolet current population living under the extreme poverty line...etc., i would bet that no one could dare to come challenging Chinese. it is just a simple truth, history is not commies text book any more, be reasonable to the world, China is not strong enough to be a centre of the world yet and far from that. try to let chinese live like human first, way to go...

[Solvent]

let's put it this way, if a chinese wants to compete for the most miserable lives, most indignity, most unjustice, most chaotic societies,most death tolls ever, and absolet current population living under the extreme poverty line...etc., i would bet that no one could dare to come challenging Chinese.

Thanks for showing us how low a human being's intelligence can be.

[Ordie]

July 11, 2009

A Strongman Is China’s Rock in Ethnic Strife

By MICHAEL WINES (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/michael_wines/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
BEIJING — As ethnic Han gangs roamed the streets of Urumqi on Tuesday at dusk, seeking revenge against Muslim Uighur rioters who killed scores of Han two nights earlier, a balding Communist Party bureaucrat abruptly appeared on the city’s television screens to call for calm.
The nine-minute speech by the bureaucrat, Wang Lequan, (http://www.china.org.cn/english/PP-e/48941.htm) was mostly government boilerplate: the riots were no homegrown problem, but “a massive conspiracy” to sabotage ethnic unity; Urumqi citizens should “point the spear toward hostile forces at home and abroad,” not at their neighbors; attacks on Han or Uighurs (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/uighurs_chinese_ethnic_group/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) alike were heartbreaking.
Then he turned to the Han who were on the streets, repaying the riots’ blood debt. “Comrades, to start with, such action is fundamentally not necessary,” he told them briskly. “Our dictatorial force is fully able to knock out the evildoers, so there is no need to take such action.”
Mr. Wang, 64, the Communist Party secretary and absolute power in the northwestern region of Xinjiang, is largely unknown outside China (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/china/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), and until lately stayed in the shadows even at home. But China’s leadership elite, and perhaps especially his patron, President Hu Jintao (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/hu_jintao/index.html?inline=nyt-per), have put their faith in him: they have let him run Xinjiang for 15 years, well beyond the usually strict limit of a decade in one powerful post. They have elevated him to the Politburo, the ruling party’s inner sanctum.
They have made him their go-to expert on policies toward minorities, which account for the more than 100 million of China’s 1.3 billion citizens who are not ethnically classified as Han. Those in power are reputed to have given him leading roles on senior advisory groups that coordinate and oversee ethnic policies. They have placed his protégé, Xinjiang’s former deputy party boss, in charge of restive Tibet.
They have done all this, those who watch Mr. Wang say, because of performances like the one on Urumqi television.
The government media may call this week’s rioting the worst outbreak of ethnic violence in recent Chinese history, killing at least 184 and injuring more than 1,000. But Mr. Wang is fully able to knock out the evildoers. He did so in 1997, quelling riots in Yining, (http://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/28/world/in-china-s-far-west-tensions-with-ethnic-muslims-boil-over-in-riots-and-bombings.html?scp=1&sq=xinjiang%20yining%20riot&st=cse) near the Kazakhstan border, at a cost in lives that remains unknown.
Iron fist and velvet glove, he has suppressed Islam, welcomed industry, marginalized the Uighur language, built roads and rail links to the outside world, and spied on, arrested and jailed countless minority citizens in the name of stopping terrorism and subsuming Uighurs (****ounced WEE-gers) into a greater China.
Even his detractors allow that he has done a masterful job. His nickname is “the stability secretary” — a tribute to his ability to step into chaos and haul it to order.
“He consolidated a piece of territory that is one-sixth of China, and for centuries has been a headache for Beijing in terms of ethnic trouble and stability,” said Nicholas Bequelin, a researcher based in Hong Kong for the advocacy group Human Rights Watch (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/human_rights_watch/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and a sharp critic of Mr. Wang’s ethnic policies. “He firmly rammed into the ground the state’s control there. This is something that has weight in the political system in China.”
A signal question now is whether it will continue to have weight. For China is entering a period of backroom political jockeying, as Communist leaders prepare to name successors in 2012 to President Hu and Prime Minister Wen Jiabao (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/wen_jiabao/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Some China analysts suspect that the violence in Xinjiang, and in Tibet last year, may become weapons in the struggle over China’s future.
At a simple level, the question is whether Beijing’s leadership will judge the quashing of riots in China’s two least-tamed regions as military successes or policy failures. But Chinese politics are rarely simple; they are a tangle of alliances based on loyalty, self-interest and ideology. Mr. Wang’s success or failure will be shared by his friends and mentors, and at the top of that list is Mr. Hu.
As leader of the influential Communist Youth League in the mid-1980s, Mr. Hu recruited talented league members as allies, including Mr. Wang, who at the time ran the group’s operations in Shandong Province, in eastern China. As president, Mr. Hu has moved dozens of league officials into the Politburo and other top government posts.
Mr. Wang and Mr. Hu share a second tie: Mr. Hu was the party boss in Tibet when Mr. Wang was moved from Shandong to Xinjiang in 1991. They embrace a hard line on minority issues. Mr. Hu’s sudden elevation to the top echelons of power in 1992 was sped by his swift action in crushing an uprising in Tibet in 1989.
Some China scholars say they suspect that Mr. Hu’s abrupt return to Beijing this week from an economic summit meeting in Italy was a mission to shore up support among Politburo members and to ensure that the riots out west did not lead to political conflict within the leadership.
Yet it is not at all clear that the Xinjiang riots will be viewed as a black mark. China’s leaders see success and failure very differently from, say, American leaders.
“No one is going to engage in any fundamental rethink of policies toward ethnic minorities unless those policies fail to produce stability,” said Russell Leigh Moses, a Beijing analyst who closely follows issues in China’s leadership elite. But in Politburo terms, stability has a special meaning.
“It’s not about stability in the streets,” he added. “It’s about legitimacy.”
Mr. Wang has also amassed his own political capital, much of it based on his reputation as an efficient, if pitiless, troubleshooter of Beijing’s most daunting problems.
Mr. Wang “is one of the major figures in the hard-line faction who thinks that more than an economic downturn, ethnic issues are the potential Achilles’ heel of this regime,” Mr. Moses said.
Mr. Wang was born in Shandong, China’s industrial and petroleum capital. At 21, he was sent into the countryside as a laborer during the Cultural Revolution. When he returned in 1966, he joined the Communist Party and began a 25-year rise to vice governor.
His familiarity with the oil industry may have played a role in his transfer to Xinjiang, an oil-rich region. But he made his mark there by combining relentless economic development with punishing social policies to remake Turkic Xinjiang in Han China’s image.
Mr. Wang arrived in Xinjiang as the Soviet Union was dissolving, its central Asian pieces shedding their colonial chains. Millions of Han citizens transplanted by Mao after China’s army occupied the region in 1949 were leaving. Beijing feared that Xinjiang’s growing Muslim Uighur population would try to follow its Soviet neighbors into independence.
Mr. Wang’s antidote was a heavy dose of modernization for the ancient Uighur culture. He opened the region’s oil and gas fields to drilling, laid pipelines east to the Chinese heartland and west to Kazakhstan, and turned the Production and Construction Corps, a creaky make-work project for mustered-out Han soldiers, into a moneymaker listed on the Shanghai stock exchange.
Han workers began flowing back, lured by industry and government jobs that Uighurs say were disproportionately parceled out to Han migrants. During the 1990s, Mr. Bequelin of Human Rights Watch said, about two million Han relocated to Xinjiang.
At the same time, Mr. Wang tightly constrained Uighur culture and religion. He substituted Mandarin for Uighur in primary schools, saying minority languages were “out of step with the 21st century,” and banned or restricted Islamic practices among government workers, including the wearing of beards and head scarves and rituals like fasting and praying while on the job.
Yet Mr. Wang’s efforts intensified after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. Within months, he began a campaign against terrorism and separatism that he linked to the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a little-known Uighur group. The Bush administration agreed, adding the group to its list of allies of Al Qaeda (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/al_qaeda/index.html?inline=nyt-org) in 2002.
In later years, Xinjiang waged a series of “strike hard” campaigns, dragnets that swept up thousands of Uighurs accused of terrorism or religious extremism.
The same year that the campaign began, Mr. Hu rewarded Mr. Wang with a Politburo seat.
“Wang Lequan came in and cracked heads, launched a ‘strike hard’ campaign, and lo and behold, he gets elevated to the Politburo,” said Dru C. Gladney, a China expert and president of the Pacific Basin Institute at Pomona College.
Now that Xinjiang has exploded in violence, Western critics may contend that Mr. Wang’s hard-nosed rule has failed, much as urban race riots in 1960s America were seen as a failure of social and legal policies then.
As yet, there is no sign such arguments will move Beijing’s leaders.
Mr. Wang’s deputy in Xinjiang, Zhang Qingli, became party secretary in Tibet in 2005 and quickly became known for the same unbending policies that are Mr. Wang’s hallmark. In 2008, Tibet suffered its worst unrest in decades. Today, Mr. Zhang sits on the party’s central committee.
Jonathan Ansfield and Xiyun Yang contributed reporting from Beijing, and Edward Wong from Urumqi.
Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/world/asia/11xinjiang.html?_r=1&ref=world&pagewanted=print

[GBob]

Among the 40 million, how many are just killed by the imagination of the ones who wish the number to be big?
It doesnt really matter how big or small the number's, it consists of every single life starving to death, you and your government have to live with it no matter how much struggling to cover it up, if only you still have bit human conscense left. You know why the bloody ordeals never stops in China? Most of people like you never introspect your own mess back to history, full of sh!t within. That's why the riots, the killings and suffering go endless, you think that only happens behind the door without exposure to the world? ---lots to learn, pal.

[GBob]

Thanks for showing us how low a human being's intelligence can be.
I know its hurt, but truth is always painful, you got to learn to go through it, clown.

[GBob]

Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/world/asia/11xinjiang.html?_r=1&ref=world&pagewanted=print
it 's hard to say playing taugh and hardline as always is in gov't favour for messy ethnic issue, China likes to show a different face now. Good article after all,

[RuneX2]

Wake up man. Our Police don't shoot live rounds into rioters.Better if they did.

[turan8]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/11/AR2009071100464.html?hpid=topnews


Death Toll Debated In China's Rioting
Officially, 184 People Died on Sunday

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, July 11, 2009

URUMQI, China -- The Yu siblings could hardly bear to look at the police snapshots of the dead -- the images so full of anger and cruelty. So they took turns sifting through them in search of their brother, who had been missing since ethnically charged riots shook this city in far western China on Sunday.

Yu Xinqing was the one who found him, victim No. 46.

Yu's elder brother, Yu Xinping, had been finishing his shift when a protest by Muslim Uighurs turned violent and some went on a rampage, attacking Han Chinese in the city. His body was mangled from multiple knife wounds and was badly burned.

"When I saw his picture, I couldn't help crying," said Yu, 35. "If you give me a gun, I will rush out and shoot all the Uighurs I meet. I won't look at them in the same way, no matter how good of an explanation there is."

Chinese authorities on Friday raised the official death count to 184 and said more than 1,000 people were injured in the rioting Sunday, making it the deadliest clash in the far western region of Xinjiang since Chinese troops arrived here 60 years ago and one of the worst in the country's modern history. Additional people were victimized in retaliatory attacks in the following days.

Of the dead, 137 were Han Chinese, 46 were Uighur and one was part of the Hui Muslim minority group. But other details are scarce.

Local officials have declined to release information about how the victims died or were hurt.

Nearly all of the 150 or so police snapshots of the dead appear to be of Han Chinese. Most have gashes or cuts on their heads. Only about 10 appear to be Uighur, at least three with apparent bullet wounds near their hearts -- a detail that lends credence to charges by Uighur leaders that Chinese national security forces fired into the crowd of protesters.

But the faces of several victims were so swollen or injured that they were unrecognizable. At least three bodies were completely burned.

Some Uighur residents of Urumqi, however, say the number of Uighur victims in the official group of pictures is low because not all of the Uighurs' bodies are being tallied. Uighurs -- members of a Turkic-speaking group that is culturally, religiously, linguistically and physically different from the Han Chinese, who make up more than 90 percent of China's population -- have long complained of government policies they say are repressive.

Leaders of Uighur exile groups say that China is grossly misrepresenting the number of people killed and that the melee occurred because security forces overreacted to what had been a peaceful protest. On Friday, Rebiya Kadeer, the Washington-based head of the World Uighur Congress, said that by her organization's tally, based on unconfirmed reports from family members and community leaders, the number of dead Uighurs could be in the thousands. The Chinese government has accused Kadeer of inciting the violence, a charge she denies.

Two Han men in Urumqi who were searching for relatives said they believe that the government might be hiding bodies in an effort to minimize the death count. In separate interviews, they said they went to all 23 hospitals in the area and checked the police pictures, but could not find their brothers, who were near the city's bazaar when the rioting began.

"The government is worried that if they announce the real statistics, it will raise the national anger," said Wang Haifeng, 21, who last heard from his 18-year-old brother, Wang Haibo, a real estate agent, when he called Sunday during the riots to say he was walking home from a date and was scared. Then the phone went dead.

The Urumqi government said Friday that families of "innocent" people killed in the unrest will receive about $29,300 in compensation, but it was unclear how officials would make that determination.

Interviews with Han and Uighur victims and their families over the past few days and visits to hospitals where many of the injured are being kept in ethnically segregated wards reveal that the violence was often barbaric and random -- and it went both ways.

Some of the injured and dead appear to have been bystanders.

Chinese troops had locked down this city of 2.4 million by Wednesday, separating Han Chinese from Uighurs and establishing a tense peace. But the accounts from victims speak to the long-standing mistrust between the ethnic groups and how explosive that hatred can quickly become.

Liu Yonghe, 44, a businessman, and his wife, Zhao Lihong, 23, were among the Han victims admitted to a hospital. They had just finished work and were on a bus en route to shops about 8 p.m. Sunday when it was stoned by a mob. They tried to escape but were beaten with sticks. Liu suffered head injuries, and his leg and two ribs were broken. His wife suffered brain injuries.

In another part of the city's bazaar that day, a Han couple on their way to pick up their granddaughter ran into Uighur protesters. Deng Yimin, 66, and Xiao Xianzhi, 65, said they were beaten until they were bleeding and collapsed.

In a retaliatory attack against Uighurs on Tuesday, Ali, a 21-year-old Uighur laborer, was on his way to his company to collect his salary at 4 p.m. when he was jumped by about 50 people. His fingers were broken, and he suffered a concussion and gashes on his back and legs. The same afternoon, Nuryeraly, 25, was running errands with his brother when someone yelled that Uighurs were nearby. Several hundred people then began to beat the brothers. The last thing he heard before he passed out was his brother calling for his mother, who was not there. "I don't know where he is now -- if he is alive or not," he said.

But there were signs of kindness across ethnic lines that have triggered soul-searching.

Ali said that before he was beaten, a Han man begged others in his group not to hit him even as the crowd turned on him and cursed him.

Zhao, who has lived in Urumqi for six years and is a shop assistant, said she was not injured as severely as she might have been because a Uighur man pulled her into the shadows of a nearby building while the attackers turned their attention to the Han men.

"I don't blame the Uighurs for all of this," she said. "There is no difference between Uighurs and Han. There are only good people and bad people."

And Xiao, who was on her way to pick up her granddaughter, said she is grateful to two Uighur men who put themselves between an angry mob and Xiao and her husband.

"They shouted at the group of people and pushed them away," Xiao recalled. "They were shouting in the Uighur language, so I didn't know exactly what they were talking about. Then they pulled us up and walked away with us."

Yu, who grew up in Urumqi and said he had no animosity toward Uighurs before this week, is not among those who say they can be friendly with their Uighur neighbors again.

"If the Uighurs are dissatisfied with the government, they should protest to the government instead of killing innocent people. Although I understand that there are bad people and good people in Uighurs, I still have a barrier in my heart," Yu said. The death of his brother, the second of six children, "is such a big hurt for our family."

Researchers Zhang Jie in Urumqi and Liu Liu in Beijing contributed to this report.

[FIA_cn]

On Friday, Rebiya Kadeer, the Washington-based head of the World Uighur Congress, said that by her organization's tally, based on unconfirmed reports from family members and community leaders, the number of dead Uighurs could be in the thousands.

any evidence?!?!

however her credibility is doubtful


http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4484/090709070132f77c086690b.jpg

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9383/09070907014977161582b03.jpg

untill now, most of victim on photo shots are Hans

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/07/ethnic_clashes_in_urumqi_china.html

[turan8]

untill now, most of victim on photo shots are Hans

Because your media is state run!!! lmao

[GemiPiggy]

I see imagination instead of evidence from this report

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/11/AR2009071100464.html?hpid=topnews

[turan8]

So you're expecting us to trust Chinese statistics of Uighur deaths, especially when Chinese officials aren't handling the Uighur bodies? You forget that Muslims have very specific death rites and thus it is relatively easy for Uighurs to count their own dead and see the discrepancy with Chinese statistics. Never mind the fact that it's in China's own interest to keep the official death count for Uighurs low while inflating Han casualties.

[dttk0009]

So you're expecting us to trust Chinese statistics of Uighur deaths, especially when Chinese officials aren't handling the Uighur bodies? You forget that Muslims have very specific death rites and thus it is relatively easy for Uighurs to count their own dead and see the discrepancy with Chinese statistics. Never mind the fact that it's in China's own interest to keep the official death count for Uighurs low while inflating Han casualties.
The pointless violence went both ways, that's all that matters. I hate this stupid numbers game people try to play in order to downplay the guilt for the side they're rooting for. 'Yeah but we only killed like 50 so it's ok!'. Having said that, I can totally understand how a situation like this can go out of control. Read some of the interviews. If I found out my brother was mauled to death by a cowardly mob for his racial background I'd have a hard time not losing it, no matter what side you're on. Another thing I'd like to know, why is the support for Uighurs in here so strong? They committed the same acts of senseless violence, and from what I've read, they were the initiators of the conflict.