Palin Hints At Independent Conservative Movement

[ronnieraygun]

Enter now Sarah Palin with very encouraging comments that lead one to believe that she is indeed planning to do what she must: build an independent conservative movement and take this nation back from the liberals which now control both parties.Thanks liberals, for provoking Sarah into the national scene while vetting that family at the same time.

One thing I will say, the Washington Times with their headline for this exclusive interview reveal an anti-Palin stance. She is, don’t doubt, a threat to every existing political status quo. I hope the Washington Times and their editors realize, sooner than later, that the Palin movement is unstoppable and their credibility would be saved simply by reporting the news instead of becoming a GOP version of the NYT.


http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3783/palinsecdef.jpg

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/12/palin-stump-conservative-democrats/
http://tammybruce.com/2009/07/palin-hints-at-independent-conservative-movement.html

[SBL]

That might be the best thing that could happen for the Republican Party.

[Soldat_Américain]

When will she go away...the thing that needs to happen to the Republican Party is Colin Powell.

[Hollis]

Oh boy another independent party that draws from the R's. I am sure the DNC will put Palin back on their party list. She is doing them a great favor.

[RxOnco]

When will she go away...the thing that needs to happen to the Republican Party is Colin Powell.

roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

We've already had those middle of the isle RINO's. They're the reason we're in the position we're currently in. You're obviously not a conservative if you're making a statement like that.

[SkyUS]

[QUOTE=ronnieraygun;4266779]http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3783/palinsecdef.jpg


/QUOTE]

This pic is a win.rofl

[brokenclog]

Slightly off-topic here, but is it just me or is Palin pretty hot in a "buddy's-mom kinda way"?

[Gleipnir]

It's not just you by any means and it is no way off topic
Glad to see Jar-Jar's return to politics, I may consider Palin-Binks for 2012, only because of his cred
yeah yeah I know, cool story

[Soldat_Américain]

roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

We've already had those middle of the isle RINO's. They're the reason we're in the position we're currently in. You're obviously not a conservative if you're making a statement like that.
You wouldn't have been in this position if he was the one to run in 2000 or hell even this last one. And I might have voted republican had that happened.

And brokenclog...you are quite right.

[Gleipnir]

Hey Brokenclog, check this out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/is-sarah-palins-lipliner_n_130352.html

[brokenclog]

Hey Brokenclog, check this out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/is-sarah-palins-lipliner_n_130352.html


Aw man....p-)

[Panchito12]

To: Sarah Palin
From: Panchito 12
Subj: Future Plans

Dear Sarah,

Don't give up your fishing concession.

R,

Panchito12

p.s. For a good time call me!!!

[Derbedeu]

Slightly off-topic here, but is it just me or is Palin pretty hot in a "buddy's-mom kinda way"?

Please don't tell me you just noticed that now!! :cantbeli: She was a MILF when America first heard of her, and she's now officially a GILF. :-D

[ronnieraygun]

Please don't tell me you just noticed that now!! :cantbeli: She was a MILF when America first heard of her, and she's now officially a GILF. :-D



http://homepage.mac.com/mikel/sarahbarracuda2.jpg

[brokenclog]

Please don't tell me you just noticed that now!! :cantbeli: She was a MILF when America first heard of her, and she's now officially a GILF. :-D

I'm not a Unitedstatesian, and I don't really keep up that much with foreign politics. So, yes. her face is pretty new to me. p-)

[Polygon]

At least the cancer will be leaving the GOP (some of it at least).

[Derbedeu]

I'm not a Unitedstatesian, and I don't really keep up that much with foreign politics. So, yes. her face is pretty new to me. p-)

That's understandable then. :)

[Skutatos]

I hate her accent more than anything else about her. It makes me want to kill myself.

[Mu-Meson]

When will she go away...the thing that needs to happen to the Republican Party is Colin Powell.

Oh? You aren't perhaps referring to the Colin Powell who endorsed the most left wing Senator of the other party for Prez, instead of the most bipartisan Senator of his own party? There is a name for Republicans who'd eat what Powell is dishing out: Democrats.

As for Palin, she has a lot of serious work to do to rebuild her image. As she stands now, she ain't got a chance of winning any election. Sure, the media was/is unfair, and savage, but pointing that out doesn't win votes. It is just a built-in handicap that she'll have to overcome. Is that fair? Of course not, but there it is. She's got a lot of learning to do now that she is out of Alaska, and she has to show voters a well rounded political education. Can she do it? I think it is possible. Time will tell.

[Flecktarn92]

As for Palin, she has a lot of serious work to do to rebuild her image. As she stands now, she ain't got a chance of winning any election. Sure, the media was/is unfair, and savage, but pointing that out doesn't win votes. It is just a built-in handicap that she'll have to overcome. Is that fair? Of course not, but there it is. She's got a lot of learning to do now that she is out of Alaska, and she has to show voters a well rounded political education. Can she do it? I think it is possible. Time will tell.

Shes doing a great job of rebuilding her image by leaving 1 and 1/2 years into her term to "run things behind the scenes" whatever the hell that means. She said in order for reform and things to progress in Alaska is by her resigning. The only thing she can show is that shes going to say goodbye to Russia. Her stupidity is endless. If she runs for president (god hope she doesn't) and wins I am leaving this country.

[Russianlynxy]

Lmao, how could people find her attractive? she is hideous IMHO.

[FullMetalJackass]

When will she go away...the thing that needs to happen to the Republican Party is Colin Powell.


LOL yeah right.

[Kilgor]

At least she was entertaining in the campaign. But shows over fella's... back to normal.

http://i35.tinypic.com/dztob9.jpg

[JKD]

If Palin formed a new party for the dumb as a brick bible thumpin' NASCAR anti-intellectuals she panders to, that'd be pretty sweet for the GOP.

[szr]

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9636/sarahpalindesign.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlNe9IXHUgA

[Winger]

That might be the best thing that could happen for the Republican Party.

Not if she has anything to do with it unless she takes the garbage with her. p-)


If Palin formed a new party for the dumb as a brick bible thumpin' NASCAR anti-intellectuals she panders to, that'd be pretty sweet for the GOP.

Nothing like getting rid of waste.

[el borracho]

The GOP needs a good enema to get back on track...however, Palin is not the answer. Any movement she spearheads is likely to fall flat on its face. If she were smart (if) and she truly cared about conservative politics, she would only contribute behind the scenes and not attach her name or any of her "credentials" to such an organization.

[JDBL14]

Well golly-gee, I hope she does go an start her own party. Maybe then the GOP can stop being so right wing and just be conservative. Maybe she can have a super-right un-electable party, and then some fiscal conservatives who aren't bible thumpers can set the GOP on a more "electable" course.

[Fargin]

Should defenently bet on TV. She could be the next big thing since Ellen DeGeneres, maybe even Arsenio Hall!

[Soldat_Américain]

Should defenently bet on TV. She could be the next big thing since Ellen DeGeneres, maybe even Arsenio Hall!
Make her a female Jerry Spring and I'm in.

[RxOnco]

I always love hearing what the conservative right needs to do...from a bunch of leftists.

[GeraldDuval]

When will she go away...the thing that needs to happen to the Republican Party is Colin Powell.

we all know that any hopes Powell had for higher politics died the moment he gave that WMD speech. It's a shame, cause i really liked him too.

[BMUS]

I always love hearing what the conservative right needs to do...from a bunch of leftists.
Ooh. Are we still a bit soar?

Maybe they're not 'leftists' as you like to call them, just sobered up Reps who want a better agenda then no abortion, gun rights and cheap gas as a main political goal.

My 0.02

[JDBL14]

Ooh. Are we still a bit soar?

Maybe they're not 'leftists' as you like to call them, just sobered up Reps who want a better agenda then no abortion, gun rights and cheap gas as a main political goal.

My 0.02

HEAR HEAR!!!

Am I a leftist because I want to see a candidate that isn't so focused on abortion, homo******ity and evolution vs. creationism. I personally feel that all the right wing social conservatism that has taken over the GOP has ruined the party. Whats wrong with being socially moderate and fiscally conservative? I personally could care less about gays marrying/serving in the military, whether or not a person believes every word of the bible or is an atheist, and while abortion is an issue it isn't a top issue for me. I would love to see more candidates that focus on reigning in our budget first, encouraging American manufacturing and responsible use of our military. I don't see how I am liberal because I oppose overspending, free trade, and neo-colonialism.

Personally I donated to and voted for Ron Paul in the primary. While i don't agree with him on everything a lot of what he said I agree with.

[RxOnco]

No...I'm not a sore loser. Personally, I don't think McCain was a very good candidate. I'd have much rather had Palin as the lead on the ticket than that RINO.

You leftys, centrists, and social moderates/fiscal conservatives do me a favor and let me know how proud you are of your decision in about another year's time. At the current administration's rate, we'll be completely f***ed by then, and we'll have you all to thank for it.

So, in the mean time, keep focusing on Sarah and paying no attention what so ever to the complete destruction being brought on the country from Washington via Cap and Tax, Immigration Amnesty, and Healthcare Tax plans.

[Blue387]

Should this thread be moved to the political board?

[Soldat_Américain]

Where's Theodore when I need him...Sarah Palin needs to go away. What's the problem with McCain, if you had someone like Sarah Palin on the lead part of the ticket the Republican prty might cease to exist. People didn't vote for Obama because they didn't want to be racist, or wanted to be part of a historical election. They voted for him because they were tired of all the ultra-conservative right-wing crap that you be spewing RxOnco.

Explain to me the problem with being at the center of the aisle?

[RxOnco]

You're wrong. McCain's numbers increased once Palin did her acceptance speech. What's wrong with being center of the isle? That's exactly where the Republicans have been for the last 10 years or so. That's exactly why we're in the position we're in. Republicans stopped holding true to the conservative values and began with a more liberal philosophy to attempt to gain popularity. We saw that with the Republican's fiscal talents over the last 8 years and we saw it with Bush's Immigration Reform attempt which was backed by McCain.
If people placed their vote as one against "ultra-right wing crap"...then they're retards. Bush was consistently conservative when it came to religion, abortion, stem-cells, guns, and the War on Terra. Other than that, he was right there with McCain sitting in the center/left isle with his spending and support for illegal immigration.
This election was about two things: No more Bush and 1st Black President. Yes, it was also about Hope and Change. But as you're seeing in the continued demise in Obama's approval ratings...the general public clearly didn't take the time to look at just what Obama's Change was going to entail. They're starting to see it now, and they don't seem to like it.

[Soldat_Américain]

Yeah and what happened when Palin started talking. I'm talking about what could have happened if out of nowhere she was your party's candidate. Our country was screwed fiscally before he took office.
Never knew this election was about putting the first black president in office, I just thought that was a plus for the progress made in this country...I voted for a very intelligent man in both the primaries and the general election...it had nothing to do with him being African American. And if you legitimately think people jump on the bandwagon just like they do when the Cowboys win the Super Bowl I find that a little delusional and not giving the people of this country the credit they deserve. The majority of the people in this country are in the center, not on the wings of the parties. It is always hard to have change when you hve the same crooks running congress also.

[RxOnco]

I'm not saying that most voted for him because he was black...just the blacks. You saw that with something like a 95-99% black vote for Obama. Now, if you don't think people won't jump on a bandwagon...then you're giving Americans too much credit. We, as a whole, have no idea what any given politician has in mind or what their voting record is. We vote like herds of cattle or sheep. We were told that Obama was going to bring a fresh ideal to Washington. Hope...Change...Well, what we get instead is a bunch of apologies, increased taxes, increased government roles in business, socialized medicine, and continued increases in unemployment.

As for Palin, she was doomed from the start. The MSM was never going to allow her to get a strong foot hold anywhere near the national stage. She's not refined like some...like Obama. But I'd rather have the unrefined Bushisms than have Obama gracefully tell me one thing all the while stabbing me in the back.

[JDBL14]

RxOnco that might be the way you see it, but I don't agree. While the GOP moved some of their positions towards the center, they moved the wrong ones. While they should have quit pushing the right wing social issues they didn't. Most people I know who consider themselves independents like I do were very turned off by Sarah Palin. Sure the religous right loved her, but that obviously isn't the majority of the American people. The GOP should quit catering to the right wing minority, and look more to the everyman and what they worry about. Bush did nothing to protect the U.S. from globalism, used our military irresponsibly and increased government spending with out having the moneyto pay for it. Obama won because he wasn't just like bush on all these points. John McCain hurt his chances when he decided to go along with bush on all of it. By bringing in Palin they just pushed away even more of the American people. Sure Obama had the historic first thing helping him, but look what he campaigned on, "Change", most people didn't care what it was as long as it was change. If the republicans wanted to win they should have distanced themselfs from Bush, and feilded a McCain from a few years ago, before he became Bushes best bud.(say what you want, he went with bush way to much to say he was different.) I'm not saying that I think Obama is what we need, he just isn't what people knew they didn't want.

[JKD]

You're wrong. McCain's numbers increased once Palin did her acceptance speech.
'Cause nobody knew anything about her at that point. They just knew she was shiny, new, good looking, still had the new car smell, and golly gee shucks she was just so down to Earth and folksy, you betcha.

Once the campaign progressed and she started having to actually answer questions it began to dawn on people that, oh sh!t, she's a complete moron.

I have die hard Republican friends and family members who did not vote for McCain because of Sarah Palin.


What's wrong with being center of the isle? That's exactly where the Republicans have been for the last 10 years or so. That's exactly why we're in the position we're in. Republicans stopped holding true to the conservative values and began with a more liberal philosophy to attempt to gain popularity. We saw that with the Republican's fiscal talents over the last 8 years and we saw it with Bush's Immigration Reform attempt which was backed by McCain.
If people placed their vote as one against "ultra-right wing crap"...then they're retards. Bush was consistently conservative when it came to religion, abortion, stem-cells, guns, and the War on Terra. Other than that, he was right there with McCain sitting in the center/left isle with his spending and support for illegal immigration.
This election was about two things: No more Bush and 1st Black President. Yes, it was also about Hope and Change. But as you're seeing in the continued demise in Obama's approval ratings...the general public clearly didn't take the time to look at just what Obama's Change was going to entail. They're starting to see it now, and they don't seem to like it.
The Republicans need to ditch the military adventurism and get back to the "humble" foreign policy candidate Bush campaigned on in 2000. They need to get out of people's personal lives and bedrooms. Stop labelling people "elitist". They need to reembrace fiscal conservatism...when they're in power and not just when they're out of power. And while not becoming "green" hippies, they need to fully embrace environmental conservation

[RxOnco]

...bush did nothing to protect the u.s. From globalism, used our military irresponsibly and increased government spending with out having the moneyto pay for it.
my point exactly...other than the military part...which is why many republicans opted out of the last couple of elections. Bush wasn't a true conservative republican.
obama won because he wasn't just like bush on all these points.
how exactly has he been any different? Other than breaking records with his spending.
sure obama had the historic first thing helping him, but look what he campaigned on, "change", most people didn't care what it was as long as it was change.
which supports my description that most voted like a bunch of sheep. They don't take the time to actually look at what obama voted for in the past, and what he intended on doing.
if the republicans wanted to win they should have distanced themselfs from bush, and feilded a mccain from a few years ago, before he became bushes best bud.(say what you want, he went with bush way to much to say he was different.)
mccain's loss in the primaries wasn't enough evidence for you that the republicans didn't like what he had been doing? You can't really distance yourself from a sitting president. Especially when the guy is already middle of the isle. You're more likely going to see some democrats start leaning more to the right to counter the public's distaste for obama's liberal agendas.
i'm not saying that i think obama is what we need, he just isn't what people knew they didn't want.
or so, that's what he and the msm led everyone to believe.

1234567890

[RxOnco]

...And while not becoming "green" hippies, they need to fully embrace environmental conservation

We're all about conservation. We just don't buy into all that The Earth is melting garbage.

[Soldat_Américain]

We're all about conservation. We just don't buy into all that The Earth is melting garbage.
right...evidence please

[JKD]

We're all about conservation.
Not quite. It's "Drill, baby, drill!!" said with wild eye glee.


We just don't buy into all that The Earth is melting garbage.
And I don't think the GOP needs to buy into that. The party just needs to be seen as acknowledging that they actually give a sh!t about our land and realize protecting it does not make one a liberal.

[Soldat_Américain]

Well if you won't take the likes of Colin Powell, whom a lot of Americans will vote for, then you need to find the next guy like him:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=987&pictureid=14755

[seraosha]

I'd prefer a viable third party to the two turds we have to choose from, but I'm not holding my breath. My friends and I are just hunkering down and praying for America to survive the next few years until we can get a President that shares more of our values, or at the least a Congress that will put the brakes on the current President if he should be voted in a second term.

Abortion, free market, conservative government spending, fiscal responsibility, Immigration, religious expression, supporting the Military, the Constitution...this is not the "fringe", these are issues that concern us.

If Palin addresses these issues in the coming years, and seems a likely candidate, I'll be looking forward to her political future.

I'd much rather have voted for her then McCain, as would many of the democratic women I know that felt very betrayed when Hillary didn't get the nomination.

[JDBL14]

First I'd like tothank RxOnco for having a grown up discussion on an issue he is obviously passionate about.


jdbl14[/B] http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4268539#post4268539)
...bush did nothing...pay for it.
my point exactly...other than the military part...which is why many republicans opted out of the last couple of elections. Bush wasn't a true conservative republican.

True Bush wasn't a true conservative republican. Besides social issues McCain/Palin's platform wasn't either.

obama won because he wasn't just like bush on all these points.
how exactly has he been any different? Other than breaking records with his spending.

Well he campaigned on being different, that doesn't mean he will be.

sure obama had the historic first thing helping him, but look what he campaigned on, "change", most people didn't care what it was as long as it was change.
which supports my description that most voted like a bunch of sheep. They don't take the time to actually look at what obama voted for in the past, and what he intended on doing.

Most McCain/Palin voters didn't take the time to do the same with their candidates. That's the way it is in America, sure it's irresponsible, and it sucks, but it's how it's always been. That "thanks, but no thanks" and "maverick" bit were examples of this on their part.

if the republicans wanted to win they should have distanced themselfs from bush, and feilded a mccain from a few years ago, before he became bushes best bud.(say what you want, he went with bush way to much to say he was different.)
mccain's loss in the primaries wasn't enough evidence for you that the republicans didn't like what he had been doing? You can't really distance yourself from a sitting president. Especially when the guy is already middle of the isle. You're more likely going to see some democrats start leaning more to the right to counter the public's distaste for obama's liberal agendas.

Hey, all I said was if they wanted to win they should have. And like I said Bush wasa centrist on the wrong issues.

i'm not saying that i think obama is what we need, he just isn't what people knew they didn't want.
or so, that's what he and the msm led everyone to believe.

Give MSN the credit if you want, but like Rove did with Bush, Obamas people played the game right and marketed the right way to win. Can't you see that's all this is? a big game...

[JDBL14]

I'd much rather have voted for her then McCain, as would many of the democratic women I know that felt very betrayed when Hillary didn't get the nomination.


Anybody, woman or man that would vote for someone just because of their ***/race/religion is the worst kind of citizen there is.

Anyone who went from Hillary Clinton to Sarah Palin, because of Obama clearly doesn't care about anything then the *** of the candidate, and that is frightening.

[JDBL14]

The Republicans need to ditch the military adventurism and get back to the "humble" foreign policy candidate Bush campaigned on in 2000. They need to get out of people's personal lives and bedrooms. Stop labelling people "elitist". They need to reembrace fiscal conservatism...when they're in power and not just when they're out of power. And while not becoming "green" hippies, they need to fully embrace environmental conservation


Hear Hear!


RxOnco, is he a liberal/leftist?

[Soldat_Américain]

Those democratic women you know must not have done their research because she would have curtailed their rights.

[seraosha]

Curtailed their "rights"? Do tell. I wait with baited breath to hear your deep understanding of womens issues, as evidenced by your admitted 20 years on Earth.

And I have no illusions about the race/*** qualifications for candidates that have been reflected in our last elections. The Democratic party preferred a black man to a white woman, this is undeniable. Is it "right" or "admirable"...not my call, but it's what happened.

[RxOnco]

...RxOnco, is he a liberal/leftist?

I don't know...the environment comment would/does ruin his cred as far as a conservative.


Those democratic women you know must not have done their research because she would have curtailed their rights.

Care to explain how?

[Soldat_Américain]

The woman's right to choose whether you believe in it or not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html

[JKD]

I don't know...the environment comment would/does ruin his cred as far as a conservative.


How so? Since in your own words:

We're all about conservation.

[seraosha]

And her personal views on abortion being only neccesary when the mothers life is threatened rolls back "Roe vs Wade" how?

[RxOnco]

How so? Since in your own words:

Aside from the kooks who chain themselves to trees, most of your environmental conservationalists would in all likelihood be conservatives. Hunters make up a very large portion of the population which I speak of. By and large, hunters (who love their gun rights), happen to be conservatives. In my opinion, at least.
Now, are we worried that Polly the Polar Bear is going to drown? Of course not. That's where we may differ.

[JDBL14]

What is wrong with being willing to make an effort to "conserve" our earth, including it's natural resources and wildlife.

I am all for guns and very much for conservation.

Oil is not the answer. No-matter whether or not global warming is real, and if it comes from fossil fuels, natural cycles or livestock flatulence, why not move to renewable resources? If we could get rid of smog in cities, and improve our air quality it would be worth it to me. We should be pushing American(owned,operated,and staffed by) companies to push ahead and put America in the position that the middle east has been in too long. If we really wanted to we could become the worlds supplier of power sources, and make boatloads of money doing it.

[JKD]

Aside from the kooks who chain themselves to trees, most of your environmental conservationalists would in all likelihood be conservatives. Hunters make up a very large portion of the population which I speak of. By and large, hunters (who love their gun rights), happen to be conservatives. In my opinion, at least.
All a lot of hunters are great in that regard. Now if the national GOP could just adopt that mentality as a part of it's platform. The party is all too eager to support drilling in protected areas, remove government regulations on land use, and any number of other things which aren't really in the best interest of conserving our natural environment.


Now, are we worried that Polly the Polar Bear is going to drown? Of course not. That's where we may differ.
You're the one who continues to bring global warming into this. I had not mentioned it, other than to say that the party doesn't need to buy into it in response to a comment you had made.

[RxOnco]

Sure, we can make a move to attempt some type of renewable energy system. However, for the next 50 years while all that takes place, we need to continue to use fossil fuels. Along that note, why should we continue to import our oil when we can simply use our own natural resources? Impeading on a miniscule percentage of protected land in Alaska or Utah is a fair price to pay in order to provide what our country needs. You can wish for clean, majestic, clean (wait, I already said that) energy in one hand...and sh*t in the other. Wait and see which one fills up first. All these pipe dreams are just that. Sure, there's people out there trying to do it...but in the mean time, my truck needs diesel fuel and my A/C needs to cool my house. Just ask T. Boone Pickens how that wind farm bull crap is working out for him. Oh yeah, he's getting out while he still can.

[California Joe]

Rx, you crack me the f*ck up.

Stay gold Pony Boy.

[Mastermind]

So, Sarah has become a wannabe Perot? Honestly, I would go for an "America" party...I have lost all faith in my Republicans...they have become so "Donky-ish" I can't quite see them anymore in a sea of Democrats. One party rule is going to finish the nation for all viable purposes. Democrats have always been lovers of the Communists...and now, they have not had a golden opportunity like this since the early days of FDR. Their only opposition is so exhausted and frail it practically does not exist except in people like Rush Limbaugh and a few conservative enclaves that don't matter in the large scale anyway. Dems can now legitimize their illegal voters, their welfare grabbing voters and their far left pinko-mother earth-tiedying-pot smoking-creepy gays-and marginal Maoist supporters. The media is no longer a threat to them...and the education system is now a full blown dumb-ass factory of numbed brain kids who would go on accepting life under communists as well as free men and never know the difference....all things and ideas are relative, you know. They can spend as much as they can print and there are no consiquinces...what-so-ever!

So, I'm on the band wagon. I'll take all that printed paper money they can throw at me...I'm tired of working for a living, having half my earnings gobbled up in taxes and watching my welfare recipient neighbors with ten kids get 8 grand back on taxes every year..."earned income tax credit" my fking ass!!! Let the one party rule come...the sooner the better. Who knows, maybe they actually have invented the perpetual cash machine. What if all that white, middle class Christian work ethic was really just bull s4it afterall? Rice and powdered milk dinners is fine so long as they let me have a Big Mack once in a while...like on holidays and on "Swear Allegiance To the Great leader Obama" day...at least twice a week if it's going to be worth while. Hell yeah...give me Discovery channel and let me ride my electric bicycle now and then to help get the cobwebs out of my head. The free medical schem seem okay too...free drugs? I can always hope. My wife's drugs are costing us $400.00 a week now...and that's the generic kind. What do we do when legal medical drugs are reaching up in price to compete with the illegal drugs sold in the alley by the 16 year old kid who drives the last Escalade in the neighborhood? We go with socialized medicine, that's what we do...and we're glad of it.

[JKD]

Sure, we can make a move to attempt some type of renewable energy system. However, for the next 50 years while all that takes place, we need to continue to use fossil fuels. Along that note, why should we continue to import our oil when we can simply use our own natural resources? Impeading on a miniscule percentage of protected land in Alaska or Utah is a fair price to pay in order to provide what our country needs. You can wish for clean, majestic, clean (wait, I already said that) energy in one hand...and sh*t in the other. Wait and see which one fills up first. All these pipe dreams are just that. Sure, there's people out there trying to do it...but in the mean time, my truck needs diesel fuel and my A/C needs to cool my house. Just ask T. Boone Pickens how that wind farm bull crap is working out for him. Oh yeah, he's getting out while he still can.
I lost track of this thread.

Energy production is only one part of what I'm talking about here. But there is currently no shortage of oil and gas. There is currently no need to drill on places like ANWR or closer to my home in a place called Otero Mesa. It would have a negligible effect on fuel prices anyway.

I found this article. Don't know anything about the author but he does a much better job of explaining this than I can


Sunday, February 01, 2004

GOP: Defend the land

By John Hereford


Over the holidays, the Bush administration issued a guideline
reintroducing commercial logging into roadless areas of the Tongass
National Forest in Alaska. Like many Republicans, I read this news
with resignation. While not exactly the coming of the apocalypse, it
does appear to be yet another disappointing example of the GOP coming
out on the wrong side of an important and mainstream environmental
issue.

In this particular case, the decision seems based not on economic or
scientific logic, but almost exclusively on political pressure
successfully applied by a narrow special interest group. The Tongass
provides some of the best wilderness hunting and fishing opportunities
in the country. It is part of a recreation complex that provides more
than five times as many jobs in the area as logging, an industry that
in the Tongass alone received more than $38 million per year in
government subsidies. Nor is there a national economic imperative to
exploit one of our last best wilderness treasures for paper supply.
Even major corporate consumers such as Staples oppose the decision,
noting that there is already plenty of supply from other, less
threatened areas.

Yet the Tongass example highlights the larger issue of how the
Republican Party, both nationally and in Colorado, confronts
mainstream environmental issues. Whether they become a defining
element in the current election cycle is unclear, but a growing number
of moderate Republicans and independents are clearly frustrated with
the way the GOP is perceived and how it allows itself to be perceived
on critical issues of open space, clean water and land-use planning.

Having worked on the front lines of Colorado's environmental politics
as head of Great Outdoors Colorado, I have been surprised at how far
the party has shifted from its conservation and environmental roots.
At what point did support for clean water, abundant open spaces and
wildlife habitat and sensible land-use planning become a threat to the
GOP's defining political philosophy?

While there are certainly Republican leaders nationally and here in
Colorado with an environmental ethic, as a whole, the party seems
adrift on these issues, despite the growing number of self-described
conservatives who both oppose increasing subsidies for polluting
industries and who worry greatly about the impact of sprawl and bad
planning on our community, our values and spiritual integrity.

Election after election indicates how important conservation measures
are to voters in Colorado, particularly among Republican voters. GOCO
polling in 2001 showed that Republicans were more likely than
Democrats to support additional funding for open space, parks and
wildlife habitat, with the strongest support coming from the Front
Range suburban communities that are considered bedrock Republican
country.

So why are the people so far ahead of the politicians? One reason is
that moderates are not voicing their opinions on these issues in
sufficient strength or at sufficient volume to neutralize the more
vocal and significantly better-organized ideological wing of the
party. Perhaps the more important reason is that the party's political
leadership has failed to recognize the sweeping demographic shift in
the state.

More and more people moved here specifically because of our outdoor
resources and quality of life. This, combined with increasingly
centrist Democratic positions on other issues, makes environmental
concerns a potential wedge between the GOP and those critical swing
votes that have been so important to Republican statewide candidates.
If the Republican Party and its leaders fail to recognize that
Colorado voters want economic growth that doesn't come at the expense
of clean water, abundant open spaces and a high quality of life
environmentally, then they will have left very fertile ground for
Democrats to harvest.

One important step is for Republicans to move beyond the widely held
notion of environmental politics as defined by the Sierra Club, the
Snail Darter and scruffy young guys throwing bottles at a World Trade
Organization conference. The resulting frustration with the tactics
and demeanor of the environmental left can lead the Republicans to
discount what may otherwise be very important and legitimate issues.

Fortunately, there is a more centrist brand of environmental politics
that seeks to move beyond the daisy-chain recriminations and partisan
gridlock of the past. Led by groups like The Nature Conservancy and
Trust for Public Lands, traditional antagonists come together -
ranchers, mining companies, local governments, and environmentalists -
in order to identify common interests and develop common solutions. Of
even greater importance, this results-oriented work can be a beacon
around which Republican environmentalists can rally.

Republican environmental advocacy requires challenging false truths,
often cloaked in the compelling but false rhetoric of economic
development. But these battles are not new to environmental
Republicans. Teddy Roosevelt faced down enormous political pressure in
order to save the Grand Canyon from development and to set aside
millions of acres for the national forest system. Indeed, Roosevelt's
example presents a good case of how the "economy versus the
environment" argument is turned upside down when considered through
the prism of true conservative values - objective economic analysis
and abiding concern for future generations. After all, who could
dispute the economic, much less aesthetic, wisdom of Roosevelt's
actions 100 years ago?
http://iubio.bio.indiana.edu:7131/bionet/mm/ag-forst/2004-February/017779.html

[budgie]

If Palin wants another 'independent' conservative movement she's welcome to go an marginalize herself. Swinging toward the base has become so passe for Republicans. What's she gonna do, launch a 'Family Values' party? She'll end up like Ron Paul: a few rabid followers and no chance of winning an election.