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Ordie
07-15-2009, 08:07 AM
The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/)
BEIJING is flexing its muscles and the Prime Minister will be forced into concessions.


'The world is watching'
The Australian's Scott Murdoch on Kevin Rudd's warning to China to tread carefully in Rio spy case....





THE signs are that Australia is about to be taught another lesson in realpolitik; that it has little political leverage over China once Beijing's cumbersome power structure decides on an assertion of its authority.

The detention of Rio Tinto executive and Australian citizen Stern Hu is not merely sending a message to foreign corporations. It also sends an internal message. It signals a shift in China towards a more conservative, state-focused and security-conscious expression of power. The idea of China as a market economy, a recognition conceded by the Howard government, ran far ahead of reality.
China's detention of Hu and the disdain with which Australia is being treated is a reality check for our governments, businesses and public opinion. In recent years surveys have shown Australian public attitude more favourable to China than the US, a misjudgment presumably driven by George W. Bush's sabre-rattling and a boost for a regime prepared to shoot its own people.
Australia is in unprecedented territory. For the first time in our history our main trading partner is not a strategic ally and not a rule of law democratic state. This is a fundamental change in our national existence. It is a long-run transformation and will demand a more sophisticated Australian diplomacy.
The first thing Australia needs to forget is that populist, brainless, megaphone diplomacy can solve our problem. The idea that China's leadership will buckle and submit with a well-publicised phone call from Kevin Rudd is a touching flight from reality. As our former ambassador to China Ross Garnaut said, politicising the issue by making it "a high-profile public event" will make China more resistant.
It is equally futile to think Australia should retreat from China because it is an authoritarian state. That was not John Howard's policy. It is not the attitude of a sensible Australian government. Our involvement with China will only intensify. What is required is an unsentimental pursuit of the national interest, dismissal of any illusion about a special friendship yet a prudent drive to deepen relations and practical co-operation. That means working through tensions such as the Hu detention.
China's economy blends the market with command and control. It has no transparent legal system and no independent judicial enforcement. It allows petty officialdom and intimidating state security to override normal commercial rules. China gets away with behaviour that would never be tolerated from other nations because of its economic potential and future assumed great power status.
This bullying mentality is on display again. Is it any surprise with the US economy debt crippled and with global growth more dependent than ever on China? Yet, at the same time, China seems paranoid that its behaviour and investment are not accepted on a bona fide basis.
Nobody knows the full story behind the move against Hu and three other Rio officers. But two messages are known: China is agitated over its recent commercial setbacks and unnerved over the Rudd government's inept foreign policy messages.
Professor of economics at the Australian National University's Crawford School Peter Drysdale says: "I don't think this relates to any tit-for-tat issue arising directly from Australia's commercial ties with China. There is no evidence of that. But the risk is that Australians overreact and we get locked into a downward spiral. The situation needs a careful and modulated response from the Rudd government."
Rudd's misjudgments with China need to be kept in context; there is nothing to suggest the Rudd government is responsible for Hu's detention. Rudd's mistake has been to personalise the China relationship. It carries his imprint, his personality, his lofty aspirations and his deep suspicions of China's military intent. Because the policy is dictated almost totally by Rudd's personality, its policy foundations are uncertain and contradictory and expectations were raised far too high.
This is the reason China is confused. It has every right to be confused. If Rudd were smart, he would give Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, cautious and unemotional, more scope with Beijing. In Drysdale's words, "we need to get our act together on and with China, and quickly".
This is more imperative if, as seems, there is an internal shift within China towards a harder line.
One critical backdrop here is the humiliating failure by state-owned company Chinalco to take 18 per cent of Rio and two board seats. The Rudd government didn't like this deal and made that known privately to China. In the end, the market scuttled the play. But this was China's biggest foreign investment initiative since itsstate-owned oil corporation tried to acquire US energy company Unocal, only to succumb to a hostile US congress.
It would be unusual if Chinalco's failure did not cause soul-searching within China's leadership. How could this not be the case? Paul Keating argues that Australia's response was too negative and static. He told this column: "What is China's best interest out of Australia in iron ore? It is having the certainty of a big-volume, low-cost supplier. This is what Australia offers. For China, this model is far superior to seeking a vertical integration by owning a substantial chunk of the supply chain in Australia. It is, to some extent, a strategic oversight by Australia not to have reinforced and persuaded China to this view."
Keating's point is that Australia must become a more collaborative strategic player with China. Beijing's leaders are consumed by frustration, aware of their rising economic power yet being outmanoeuvred on the big global plays. This humiliation was reinforced in the iron ore negotiations in which, ironically, Rio took the lead. Once Japan settled for a 33per cent price cut with South Korea and Taiwan following, China's hopes of a securing a far bigger price cut were in retreat. The big miners, Rio and BHP, were triumphant and Beijing was on the losing side. Again.
Relying on an official website, Smith said the detention of Hu arose from the iron ore negotiations and claims that he "stole state secrets", including bribery. The decision seems to reflect political and economic judgments at a high level within China's leadership.
Hence the comment from Smith that "we may well be in for a long haul here". Smith's aim is to limit the damage and press China in private. Yet public concern about China's action is fully justified and appropriate. The more China displays contempt for the Rudd government, the more opinion will turn against Beijing. There is a simple proposition here: "This is not the action of a friend."
Smith's public remarks mean that China has been told. But does it care? Australia's strongest argument is that China is undermining its own commercial interests on a universal basis. This is our best leverage.
The bottom line, however, is that Rudd at some point will probably need to make concessions to China for Hu's cause.



Source: The Australian Editorial

josh21x
07-15-2009, 08:32 AM
This is only a trailer of what China will do,if not properly checkmated Now.

rolls
07-15-2009, 09:30 AM
They try to buy rio and fail..... then this happens.

Now this article questions Australia's grip on the realopolitik of the situation? OMG LOL.... Please give me a break. Cut there resources off, put a tariff on there crappy wares and we will see who come grovelling back.

China needs our sh1t more then we need theres.

There is nothing more to see here then that beijing didn't get what they wanted and now theyll try political extortion instead.

Im sure the pig Uranium Rudd and Garret Duo will suck on chinas left one.

oldsoak
07-15-2009, 09:47 AM
Good ol' Rudd. :roll:
Nothing the grizzled old veterans in the Dept of FA and T should'nt have known about.
Now I know why half the family voted Liberal.

josh21x
07-15-2009, 10:07 AM
China needs our sh1t more then we need theres.


Debateable. Australia made big fuss about Indo-US Nuke deal,and Kazakhstan replaced them for Uranium supply.

But it is about time, we start putting some restrains on China.

deagle
07-15-2009, 12:11 PM
ehh, guess Big China's just being assertive.

diplomacy will probably dictate a resolution that won't escalate to anything more.

Blue_0
07-15-2009, 05:45 PM
That kind of **** doesn't go over well with the populace in the west. I would be inclined to view the state kidnapping of Australian citizens by China would result in the opposite of the intended effect.

-- Bluelight

Violet Fashion by Mindy
07-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Well there has been a few how shall I put it? diplomatic squabbles of late.

A Chinese company was knocked back in purchasing a majority stake in an iron ore company.

Rio Tinto has been playing hardball with the Chinese over iron ore prices.

China has "warned" a film festival from showing a certain film

Latest defense white paper listed China as a "threat"

Now this.

Dexx
07-15-2009, 06:21 PM
Let is escalate on a political level and close the Chinese embassy. With the backup of the Western world (Europe and US) China needs to be taught a lesson. I don't trust them at all. Whenever there is a politcal or economic step taken by China, it is only for their best interest to aquire power and technology transfer. If China isn't checked today, the Western world is in for a rude awakening in 10-20 years. Trust me.

2495
07-15-2009, 06:24 PM
Let is escalate on a political level and close the Chinese embassy. With the backup of the Western world (Europe and US) China needs to be taught a lesson. I don't trust them at all. Whenever there is a politcal or economic step taken by China, it is only for their best interest to aquire power and technology transfer. If China isn't checked today, the Western world is in for a rude awakening in 10-20 years. Trust me.


Avatar sucks, but your words make sense. rofl The hoff may be a Demi God in germany.. but please, I am trying to eat!

grendel
07-16-2009, 01:44 AM
World is watching, Kevin Rudd tells Beijing

Mark Dodd and Michael Sainsbury | July 16, 2009

KEVIN Rudd has toughened his rhetoric towards Beijing over the Stern Hu affair, warning that the world will be watching and emphasising that China has significant economic interests at stake in Australia.

As the Prime Minister hardened his stand towards China over the detention of Rio Tinto executive Mr Hu, experts warned that the government's uncompromising stand on Tibet, human rights, a China-hostile defence white paper, and failed iron ore deals, threatened to increase tensions in the relationship.

"A range of foreign governments and corporations will be watching this case with interest and be watching it very closely," Mr Rudd said. "And they'll be drawing their own conclusions about how it is conducted. It is in all of our interests to have this matter resolved."

Mr Rudd said Australia had significant economic interests in its relationship with China. "But I remind our Chinese friends that China, too, has significant economic interests at stake in its relationship with Australia and with its other commercial partners around the world."

Mr Rudd's press conference in Sydney came as the Chinese government's investigation into the steel industry widened with revelations the executive vice-chairman of the China Iron and Steel Association, Luo Bingsheng, was under investigation.

Mr Luo, a senior member of the Communist Party, is the most senior Chinese official to come under investigation in the widening probe by the Ministry of State Security.

The China Daily quoted an industry "insider" as saying that executives from all 16 Chinese steel mills participating in iron ore price talks had been bribed by Rio Tinto executives.

Just hours after Mr Rudd made his comments, Beijing hosed down suggestions the matter would harm its business reputation or trade with Australia.

China's Commerce Ministry spokesman, Yao Jian, told reporters China and Australia were very important trading partners and had good co-operation.

"I think these relations will definitely not be affected by an individual case," he said.

He dismissed the suggestion the case would hurt China's business reputation: "I don't think the Rio Tinto case will affect China's trade environment or foreign investment environment".

Mr Rudd's warning to Beijing came as it emerged the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade was now assisting in 41 other consular cases involving Australian citizens incarcerated in China.

DFAT documents show consular staff are managing 14 prisoner cases, including eight of fraud and "economic crimes", four of drugs and transnational crimes and two of "serious" crimes.

In the same categories, another 27 Australians are awaiting trial, including 19 for economic crimes, two for drug offences or transnational crimes, five for miscellaneous offences and one (Mr Hu) for "suspicion of espionage and stealing state secrets".

Mr Hu, Rio Tinto's Australian head of iron ore operations in China, was arrested 11 days ago on suspicion of spying, selling state secrets and using bribery to obtain confidential state documents.
Mr Rudd said he had spent much of the previous two days in briefings on the Hu issue, including a midnight telephone call to Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, who is in Egypt.

But as Mr Rudd stepped up his demands for information from China, experts warned Beijing's ire towards Canberra was likely the culmination of months of frustration at Canberra.

Cheng Li, director of research at the Brookings Institute, said tensions had flared over suggestions that Helen Liu, the Chinese-born businesswoman friend of former defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon, was a Chinese spy.

Beijing was also "very unhappy" at the failure of state-owned Chinalco to obtain a strategic slice of Rio Tinto.

"It (Mr Hu's detention) could also be linked to something you think that might be remote, like the defence white paper, the espionage charges against the Chinese-Australian woman (Ms Liu). But it's important to know that China has now become increasingly aggressive and that they can afford to make this type of harsh decision," Mr Cheng told The Australian at Australian National University seminar.

Speaking earlier at the seminar, Ping Cheng, from the China Centre for Economic Research, cautioned that any portrayal of China as a potential national security threat could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The Hu case served to remind those "dewy-eyed" Australians there were fundamental differences in legal and government practice between the two countries, said national security expert Alan Behm. "This is something perhaps the government should have been much more explicit about, particularly the Prime Minister, who does know China better than any of us," he said.


from: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25789039-5013871,00.html

grendel
07-16-2009, 01:46 AM
US trade chief to raise arrest of Rio Tinto's Stern Hu with China

UPDATE: Alex Wilson | July 16, 2009
Article from: http://www.dowjones.com/

US Commerce Secretary Gary Locke says multinational companies in China "need to have assurances and confidence" that their workers will be treated fairly.

The top US trade official says he will raise the case of a detained Australian executive Stern Hu with Premier Wen Jiabao in a meeting today.

"We just need to continue to press" China for transparency, fair enforcement of laws and openness to foreign investment and cooperation, said Mr Locke said.

“This is of course a great concern with respect to US investors, multinational companies from around the world that have projects here, that are involved in energy."

Mr Locke and US Energy Secretary Steven Chu kicked off a three-day visit to China yesterday aimed at co-operation in the clean energy sector between the world's two biggest emitters of greenhouse gases.

“We've had good dialogue so far,” Mr Locke said.

“We need to have transparency, we need to have assurances and confidence that people working for these multinational companies, international companies, American companies will be treated fairly.

“So this needs to be raised with the Chinese.”

The comments come in the wake of the detention since July 5 of executive Mr Hu and three Chinese colleagues at Anglo-Australian mining company Rio Tinto.

The workers were accused of bribery to obtain state secrets relating to iron-ore price talks, though Australia has yet to be officially advised of the allegations.

A Chinese steel executive has also been detained.

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd stepped up pressure on China yesterday.

In his strongest statements yet on the detention of Mr Hu, Mr Rudd told reporters in Sydney that China's foreign trading partners and businesses operating in China would be closely watching the outcome of the incident.

"And they will draw their own conclusions as to how it is conducted," he said.

Previously, Mr Rudd, who speaks Chinese and served at the Australian Embassy in Beijing, had said quiet diplomacy regarding the case would elicit a better result than public grandstanding.

The detention of the Rio Tinto employees for alleged espionage over what appears to be a commercial matter could undermine China's assertions that its state enterprises are increasingly independent of government and adhere to commercial principles. China's foreign ministry has said the case doesn't indicate Beijing is restricting the activities of foreign companies.

The China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), the lead negotiator for the Chinese side in the annual iron-ore price negotiations, and leading mining companies said talks were continuing. The negotiators failed to strike a deal by the June 30 deadline.

Steelmakers and ore suppliers have moved to reach interim deals until a final price is set. Some Chinese steel mills have agreed to provisional prices for iron ore, executives from three steel companies said last night.

An official at Hebei Iron & Steel Group said his mill has reached a tentative price of a 33 per cent discount from last year's benchmark rate with both Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton, as well as a 28 per cent discount with Brazil’s Vale.

The Hebei official said his company was still waiting to hear from the China Iron and Steel Association and Baosteel Group, the country's largest steelmaker, on the final price agreement.

"And after that, we'll pay the price difference to ore miners," he said.

China's steel association has insisted on a cut of at least 40 per cent from last year's contract price. Major Japanese and South Korean steelmakers have reached supply contracts based on price cuts of 28 per cent to 33 per cent.

-Enda Curran and Chuin-Wei Yap contributed to this story.

Additional reporting: AFP


from: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25789991-643,00.html

josh21x
07-16-2009, 02:38 AM
I am suprised about Kevin Rudd's reaction. I would have expected him to be a bit more tough on China, considering he is the PM of the country and one of his citizen is in unlawful custody. Kevin Rudd and India's pacifism is the only thing that stands against Australia-India-Japan-US (maybe Vietnam, South Korea and Mongolia), alliance against the Chinese

yydebox1
07-16-2009, 06:58 AM
I am suprised about Kevin Rudd's reaction. I would have expected him to be a bit more tough on China, considering he is the PM of the country and one of his citizen is in unlawful custody. Kevin Rudd and India's pacifism is the only thing that stands against Australia-India-Japan-US (maybe Vietnam, South Korea and Mongolia), alliance against the Chinese

"Unlawful"?You must know something,show your evidence.

oldsoak
07-16-2009, 07:06 AM
Erm, - Except that normally we have the presumption of innocence. Its for the PRC authorities to show that they have evdence of his wrong doing.

Pille1234
07-16-2009, 07:21 AM
OMG LOL.... Please give me a break. Cut there resources off, put a tariff on there crappy wares and we will see who come grovelling back.

China needs our sh1t more then we need theres.
That idea might bite you in the asz. What goods do you export to China that could not instantly be substituted by delivery from elsewhere?
Tariffs would help you identifying how many goods actually come from china...by paying higher prices.

yydebox1
07-16-2009, 07:46 AM
Erm, - Except that normally we have the presumption of innocence. Its for the PRC authorities to show that they have evdence of his wrong doing.
Let's wait and see.

But I think most guys here won't believe China authority even it is truth.You see the problem?

yydebox1
07-16-2009, 07:48 AM
That idea might bite you in the asz. What goods do you export to China that could not instantly be substituted by delivery from elsewhere?
Tariffs would help you identifying how many goods actually come from china...by paying higher prices.
No,those rich chinese cann't live without euro luxury.rofl

oldsoak
07-16-2009, 09:35 AM
Let's wait and see.

But I think most guys here won't believe China authority even it is truth.You see the problem?

I hear what you say - however, if it can be shown that the guy is corrupt, then they have to beleive.

yydebox1
07-16-2009, 09:48 AM
Good point.

Mr hu was took by NSB not Police,so we have to wait.

Hando
07-16-2009, 11:17 AM
So does this set the precedent that if the local chinese restaurant doesn't give me a discount on demand, I can report the managment as terrorists?

yydebox1
07-16-2009, 09:37 PM
So does this set the precedent that if the local chinese restaurant doesn't give me a discount on demand, I can report the managment as terrorists?
If you think these two things have connection,it is your problem.

What is Mr hu did is still unclear now,some news said he got some sensitive information in his notebook which shouldn't he have.I always heard there are 1000+ chinese spies in Australia,therefore it is common we found one australian spy here in BeiJing.

Kevin Rudd suffered a lot recently,huh?p-)