Riots: China and USA, Same Standard?

[Fage]

by niccolo caldararo (http://niccolo-caldararo.dailykos.com/) on Jul 13, 2009 at 02:22:36 PM PDT

I have been baffled in recent days by the media definition of the riots in China's Xinjiang region. Emphasis has been put on the fact of the 150 plus deaths and more than 2,000 injured but not on the fact that the victims were almost all Han Chinese. I have wondered why the media, especially the international media, has not used the term, "race riot" or some other means of describing the one-sided violence. Most photographs have been of Han Chinese with clubs out to get revenge or Uighur women crying over Uighur rioters who have been arrested. Chinese officials have been castigated for blaming outside influences, and sinister implications have been hinted at by the departure of Hu Jintao from the G8 meeting. One wonders why we saw thousands of images of the demonstrations on the streets of Tehran but hardly any from the scenes of the murders of Han Chinese at the hands of Uighur mobs.

caldararo's diary :: ::

In fact, Human Rights Watch (http://hrw.org/un/chr59/counter-terrorism-bck4.htm#P183_32636) reports this number in one day nearly exceeds all those killed since 1990 in the area in demonstrations. If we compare this reportage to riots in the USA we find a distinct difference. Following the Watts riot in LA which came 5 days after the passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, President Johnson blamed the rioters arguing that there was no justification for it. Out side agitators were often used as excused for African-American riots, especially in the South. This was especially true of Nixon who used riots in Afrian-American communities to fan political criticism of certain foes but especially African-American leaders (see Nixonland: The Rise of a President and teh Fracturing of America, by Rick Perlstein, 2008) Following the Miami riot in 1980 the Reagan led Republican Party used the disturbance again to blame the rioters and not the political system of discrimination. The same occurred with the Crown Heights riot of 1991 and LA riot of 1992. When one reads over the media discussions of these events we do not find the kind of criticism of US policy we find today with the media on Chinese events. We should define the nature of the crimes involved, race was an issue, the victims were almost all Han Chinese. Whether outside influences were involved, the pattern is clear how the media has chosen to communicate the events.

Present conditions of tension and violence are attributed to the opening of the Karakoram Highway by the Chinese and the liberalization of movement of Uighurs along it as well as economic opportunities (see Ziad Haider, "Sino-Pakistan Relations and Xinjiang's Uighurs" Asian Survey, v. 45, n. 4, 2005:522-545). Most scholars agree that the Uighurs have benefited economically immensely since the opening of the highway, establishing trade relations with Pakistanis and Uighurs who had fled to Pakistan from the USSR in the 1930s. Pakistani traders have traveled routinely to Xinjiang and Kashgar especially bringing the movies and music of Bollywood, and Indian products as well as radical Islamic politics (see M. Ehsan Ahrari, "China, Pakistan and the 'Taliban Syndrome'" Asian Survey, v. 40, n. 4, 2000:658-671). Large numbers of Uighurs have traveled to Mecca in the Hajj.

The highway was built by the Chinese to allow them to aid Pakistan in case of an Indian-Pakistan war. Global politics in the region is influenced by the introduction of modern farming that has transformed less productive traditional methods of the Uighurs with modern methods and resulted in vastly increased production that has caused conflicts between local farmers and the government. The same is true for discoveries of oil and minerals and smuggling of contraband and drugs.

Emphasis of the Western press on the "plight" of the Uighurs shadows the global economic, religious and political issues and has tended to shape world opinion in reaction to claimed Chinese discrimination. It should be kept in mind that the Uighurs are not indigenous to Xinjiang but only recent arrivals as the chief agriculturalists (see T.C. Chang, Hsin-chiang Min-chu Pien-hsuan chi Hsien-chuang, Eng., as "The Evolution and Present Situation of Hsin-chiang's Ethnic Groups" Taipei: Central Literary Contributions Society, 1954." The Uighurs probably arrived in Xinjiang some time a 1,000 years ago driven out of their native Mongolia by the Khirgiz (Y.S. Ch'i, Hsi-yi Yao-lueh, Eng. as "An Outline History of the Northwestn Regions," Shanghai: Commercial Press, 1936 and supported by Soviet archaeology, A.L. Mongait, Archaeology in the USSR 1955.) But the Kalmuks and others (the northern area including the Ili Valley were occupied by the Mongols, the Ili Valley being the ordu or encampment of Ogotai, Genghis Khan's son during the Yuan or Mongol dynasty 1206-1368. In fact, China has had control or been the main political and economic force in the area for at least 2,000 years. The Tarim Basin was the main area of Uighur occupation and they are a minority among minorities in Xinjiang(see Herold J. Wiens, "Change in the ethnography and land use of the Ili Valley and region, Chinese Turkestan," Annals of the Association of American Geographers, v. 59, n. 4, Dec. 1969:753-775).


Source:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/13/752673/-Riots:-China-and-USA,-Same-Standard

[hulaku]

The Karakoram highway was built by the Chinese to allow them to aid Pakistan in case of an Indian-Pakistan war.Epic fail

Retard alert

Stop quoting from such sources

[Panchito12]

"This was especially true of Nixon who used riots in Afrian-American communities to fan political criticism of certain foes but especially African-American leaders (see Nixonland: The Rise of a President and teh Fracturing of America, by Rick Perlstein, 2008) Following the Miami riot in 1980 the Reagan led Republican Party used the disturbance again to blame the rioters and not the political system of discrimination."

1. I got that book. Let me put it plainly: ONE OF THE MOST BIASED BOOKS I'VE EVER PURCHASED! The complete premise of that book is to shift the blame for all the ills of the 60's, including Vietnam, away from "Druggie" Kennedy & LBJ, towards Nixon. I will never purchase anything from that author again.

2. The riots of 1980 in Miami were not about discrimination, but about black people pissed (again) over some cops (again) getting away with brutality (again). Of course the overwhelming majority of rioters were not interested in changes in the legal system but in looting (again).

3. The Daily Kos is about as valuable a cite as PRAVDA. Don't use it again.

[yydebox1]

One wonders why we saw thousands of images of the demonstrations on the streets of Tehran but hardly any from the scenes of the murders of Han Chinese at the hands of Uighur mobs.

Good question!

[Mastermind]

"One wonders why we saw thousands of images of the demonstrations on the streets of Tehran but hardly any from the scenes of the murders of Han Chinese at the hands of Uighur mobs."

Uh, just guessing here...To avoid any semblance of criticizing Islam?See, terror does work.

[cn_habs]

"One wonders why we saw thousands of images of the demonstrations on the streets of Tehran but hardly any from the scenes of the murders of Han Chinese at the hands of Uighur mobs."

Uh, just guessing here...To avoid any semblance of criticizing Islam?See, terror does work.

Medias don't restraint themselves that way in the Middle East.

This is a clear attempt to portray China as the sole aggressors.

[Panchito12]

This is a clear attempt to portray China as the sole aggressors.

Reactionary elements under the evil influence of the CIA aggressor agents, eh?

[deagle]

we don't protest/riot as much as we used too.

just saw "patriot" last night, and the mere rumor of taxation w/o representation got ppl riled up, burning mock puppets of the king...... maybe we should do the same for inept law makers, public officials and CEO's. lol

[IMTT]

China and USA, Same Standard?

There is obvious bias to vilianize in this editorial letter provided toward political parties in regard to the US. I believe the comparison in absurd and without basis and little more than another feable attempt to cast one party as evil and demonic in order to validate a belief system.

My answer to the question posed is NO!

[Elbs]

This is a clear attempt to portray China as the sole aggressors.

Contrary to what you may believe, China is not the center of the world. Not everything revolves around China. I assure you that newspaper editors around the US don't wake up every morning with a hard-on thinking, "how can i demonize the chicoms today?"

Good stories sell papers. It's as easy as that...

[IMTT]

Elbs,

Well put! Stories portraying the conservative right as evil and responsible for all things wrong in the USA help sell even more papers. The connection is a great way to sell more print media as well as air time on the big stations. I'm just surprised they didn't connect the evil BUSH to this as well. After all he must some how be responsible for this as well in some tacid way.

[DS73]

"One wonders why we saw thousands of images of the demonstrations on the streets of Tehran but hardly any from the scenes of the murders of Han Chinese at the hands of Uighur mobs."

Uh, just guessing here...To avoid any semblance of criticizing Islam?See, terror does work.
Lol, not in this case. You forget that China is not exactly free country where foreigners can roam free.

Quick internet search gives:
http://www.fccchina.org/2009/07/11/china-should-allow-reporters-free-movement-in-xinjiang/

the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of China, while encouraged that journalists were allowed to report from Urumqi, is alarmed at the growing number of reporters who have been detained while trying to do their jobs. Foreign reporters have been asked to leave the city of Kashgar, and in some cases have been escorted to the airport. Photographs have also been deleted from cameras. At least four reporters were detained for hours in Urumqi, a worrying trend.

[Soldat_Américain]

we riot for the Lakers and the Buckeyes...so obviously, no

[Dan2004]

we riot for the Lakers and the Buckeyes...so obviously, no

There's nothing better than an Ohio v Mich. riot. rofl

[Soldat_Américain]

the moment we start having riots over soccer I'm moving to somwhere that only knows pig skin

[cn_habs]

Contrary to what you may believe, China is not the center of the world. Not everything revolves around China. I assure you that newspaper editors around the US don't wake up every morning with a hard-on thinking, "how can i demonize the chicoms today?"

Good stories sell papers. It's as easy as that...

You don't understand what I meant. Do you honestly believe that the majority of us want "attention"? We just want to live our lives peacefully and who cares about if the world evolves around China?

My point is, the average American who knew nothing about Tibet and Xinjiang probably read this and suddenly start relying on this type of "objective" info to view China and most importantly the Chinese people in a negative way.

We, as civilians, have our faults, but we are really not evil at all. What the government does is out of our control. Period .

[Elbs]

You don't understand what I meant. Do you honestly believe that the majority of us want "attention"? We just want to live our lives peacefully and who cares about if the world evolves around China?

My point is, the average American who knew nothing about Tibet and Xinjiang probably read this and suddenly start relying on this type of "objective" info to view China and most importantly the Chinese people in a negative way.

We, as civilians, have our faults, but we are really not evil at all. What the government does is out of our control. Period .

I understood you well enough. Some other Chinese posters on this site have an idea of American newspapers as being CIA-conspiracies dedicated exclusively towards demonizing the Chinese. As for the average American, it's probably a safe assumption that he doesn't care about the events in China... not with the troubled economy, problems finding jobs, etc.

There is no objectivity in media, whether it be Chinese, American, or whatever.

[SOG]

2. The riots of 1980 in Miami were not about discrimination, but about black people pissed (again) over some cops (again) getting away with brutality (again). Of course the overwhelming majority of rioters were not interested in changes in the legal system but in looting (again).

3. The Daily Kos is about as valuable a cite as PRAVDA. Don't use it again.

I support your clever use of the word AGAIN!

Again.


we don't protest/riot as much as we used too.

just saw "patriot" last night, and the mere rumor of taxation w/o representation got ppl riled up, burning mock puppets of the king...... maybe we should do the same for inept law makers, public officials and CEO's. lol

I like settings things on fire. Never been to good at it though.


the moment we start having riots over soccer I'm moving to somwhere that only knows pig skin

And the UK thinks we're cowboys!? At least we don't start riots over a kids game in the US.

[IraGlacialis]

I like settings things on fire. Never been to good at it though.
Word of advice: don't be down-wind from the flame.


And the UK thinks we're cowboys!? At least we don't start riots over a kids game in the US.
I don't know; some of those fights between dads at baseball games can get pretty intense. p-)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

We, as civilians, have our faults, but we are really not evil at all. What the government does is out of our control. Period .

That's quite convenient. As an American, I'm glad my forefathers didn't take that attitude.

[LineDoggie]

Daily Kos as as Source?

Why not use Kim Jong Il for more Balanced views...

[GBob]

Contrary to what you may believe, China is not the center of the world. Not everything revolves around China. I assure you that newspaper editors around the US don't wake up every morning with a hard-on thinking, "how can i demonize the chicoms today?"

Good stories sell papers. It's as easy as that...
x2 and extremely hard to make them think what they are like.

[Super Sheep]

That's quite convenient. As an American, I'm glad my forefathers didn't take that attitude.

Catchy, good for you to imply that since the Chinese don't have some of the liberty and freedom you enjoy, they should openly rebel like your "forefathers, who didn't take that attitude", because it would not be you who will suffer the consequence from the government reprisal, or civil strife.

Its good to be self-serving eh?

[LineDoggie]

Catchy, good for you to imply that since the Chinese don't have some of the liberty and freedom you enjoy, they should openly rebel like your "forefathers, who didn't take that attitude", because it would not be you who will suffer the consequence from the government reprisal, or civil strife.

Its good to be self-serving eh? Is it better to be under the boot of a tyrant?

[yydebox1]

Is it better to be under the boot of a tyrant?
At least this "tyrant" is not a American puppet:).

[Soldat_Américain]

At least this "tyrant" is not a American puppet:).
So you'd rather live under a tyrant regardless...good to know.

[Hongjian]

Is it better to be under the boot of a tyrant?


actually yes.

without our bad and brutal tyrants, we would still eating tree-barks and clay-cookies while dying from them and not lending you our billions of moneys.

so yes. we are enjoying our lifes under the prada boots of our tyrant if his majesty makes us richer and happier by oppressing us.

[yydebox1]

So you'd rather live under a tyrant regardless...good to know.
Wow,big hat to me,I didn't say that.

[Delay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#United_States

Since World War II

In the 1970s and 1980s, the waning fortunes of heavy industry in the United States prompted layoffs and hiring slowdowns just as counterpart businesses in Japan were making major inroads into U.S. markets. Nowhere was this more visible than in the automobile industry, where the lethargic Big Three automobile manufacturers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_automobile_manufacturers) (General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation), Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company), and Chrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Corporation)) watched as their former customers bought Japanese imports from Toyota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota) and Nissan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan), a consequence of the 1973 oil crisis. The anti-Japanese sentiment manifested itself in occasional public destruction of Japanese cars, and in the 1982 murder of Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin), a Chinese American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American) beaten to death when he was mistaken to be Japanese.
Other highly symbolic deals — including the sale of famous American commercial and cultural symbols such as Columbia Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Records), Columbia Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures), and the Rockefeller Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Center) building to Japanese firms — further fanned anti-Japanese sentiment. The unease continued well into the early 1990s.
Popular culture of the period reflected American's growing distrust of Japan. Futuristic period pieces such as Back to the Future II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_II) and Robocop 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocop_3) frequently showed Americans as working precariously under Japanese superiors. Criticism was also lobbied in many novels of the day. Author Michael Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton) took a break from science fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) to write Rising Sun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28novel%29), a murder mystery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_mystery) (later made into a feature film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28film%29)) involving Japanese businessmen in the U.S. Likewise, In Tom Clancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy)'s book, Debt of Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_of_Honor), Clancy implies that Japan's prosperity is due primarily to unequal trading terms, and portrays Japan's business leaders acting in a power hungry cabal.
The animosity which peaked in the 1980s, when the term "Japan bashing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_bashing)" became popular, had largely faded by the late 1990s. Japan's waning fortunes, coupled with an upsurge in the U.S. economy as the Internet took off, largely crowded anti-Japanese sentiment out of the popular media, which has turned to other issues.


IMO China has become the new Japan.

[yydebox1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#United_States

Since World War II

In the 1970s and 1980s, the waning fortunes of heavy industry in the United States prompted layoffs and hiring slowdowns just as counterpart businesses in Japan were making major inroads into U.S. markets. Nowhere was this more visible than in the automobile industry, where the lethargic Big Three automobile manufacturers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_automobile_manufacturers) (General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation), Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company), and Chrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Corporation)) watched as their former customers bought Japanese imports from Toyota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota) and Nissan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan), a consequence of the 1973 oil crisis. The anti-Japanese sentiment manifested itself in occasional public destruction of Japanese cars, and in the 1982 murder of Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin), a Chinese American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American) beaten to death when he was mistaken to be Japanese.
Other highly symbolic deals — including the sale of famous American commercial and cultural symbols such as Columbia Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Records), Columbia Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures), and the Rockefeller Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Center) building to Japanese firms — further fanned anti-Japanese sentiment. The unease continued well into the early 1990s.
Popular culture of the period reflected American's growing distrust of Japan. Futuristic period pieces such as Back to the Future II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_II) and Robocop 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocop_3) frequently showed Americans as working precariously under Japanese superiors. Criticism was also lobbied in many novels of the day. Author Michael Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton) took a break from science fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) to write Rising Sun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28novel%29), a murder mystery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_mystery) (later made into a feature film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28film%29)) involving Japanese businessmen in the U.S. Likewise, In Tom Clancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy)'s book, Debt of Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_of_Honor), Clancy implies that Japan's prosperity is due primarily to unequal trading terms, and portrays Japan's business leaders acting in a power hungry cabal.
The animosity which peaked in the 1980s, when the term "Japan bashing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_bashing)" became popular, had largely faded by the late 1990s. Japan's waning fortunes, coupled with an upsurge in the U.S. economy as the Internet took off, largely crowded anti-Japanese sentiment out of the popular media, which has turned to other issues.


IMO China has become the new Japan.
Wow,Nice historyp-).

[fooj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#United_States

Since World War II

In the 1970s and 1980s, the waning fortunes of heavy industry in the United States prompted layoffs and hiring slowdowns just as counterpart businesses in Japan were making major inroads into U.S. markets. Nowhere was this more visible than in the automobile industry, where the lethargic Big Three automobile manufacturers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_automobile_manufacturers) (General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation), Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company), and Chrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Corporation)) watched as their former customers bought Japanese imports from Toyota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota) and Nissan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan), a consequence of the 1973 oil crisis. The anti-Japanese sentiment manifested itself in occasional public destruction of Japanese cars, and in the 1982 murder of Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin), a Chinese American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American) beaten to death when he was mistaken to be Japanese.
Other highly symbolic deals — including the sale of famous American commercial and cultural symbols such as Columbia Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Records), Columbia Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures), and the Rockefeller Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Center) building to Japanese firms — further fanned anti-Japanese sentiment. The unease continued well into the early 1990s.
Popular culture of the period reflected American's growing distrust of Japan. Futuristic period pieces such as Back to the Future II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_II) and Robocop 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocop_3) frequently showed Americans as working precariously under Japanese superiors. Criticism was also lobbied in many novels of the day. Author Michael Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton) took a break from science fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) to write Rising Sun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28novel%29), a murder mystery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_mystery) (later made into a feature film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28film%29)) involving Japanese businessmen in the U.S. Likewise, In Tom Clancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy)'s book, Debt of Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_of_Honor), Clancy implies that Japan's prosperity is due primarily to unequal trading terms, and portrays Japan's business leaders acting in a power hungry cabal.
The animosity which peaked in the 1980s, when the term "Japan bashing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_bashing)" became popular, had largely faded by the late 1990s. Japan's waning fortunes, coupled with an upsurge in the U.S. economy as the Internet took off, largely crowded anti-Japanese sentiment out of the popular media, which has turned to other issues.


IMO China has become the new Japan.

I totally agree. China appears to be following Japan down the same path of quantitative stagnation. When the Japanese bubble went bust in 1990, the Japanese government spent the next 20 years building bridges to nowhere. They have great looking roads, but the IMF claims their national debt is expected to hit 250% of GDP by 2014! WOW!

China seems doing the same thing. Currently their banks are very liquid, but time will tell if they can manage such massive debt inflation.

[plato]

The same standard? Of course not! Until CCP allows media to report on riots freely, then let's talk about standards.

btw, I have been in China for almost two months now. Facebook was blocked couple days after I got here, and youtube was blocked long before I got here. They were blocked long before the riot, so what is the reason for blocking them? Even hotmail was blocked for two days in June!

yes, militaryphotos.net is NOT blocked.

[Vapourstreak]

yea , i hate those two being blocked. i hear most google services are blocked , too , because of XinJiang. very annoying .

[plato]

yea , i hate those two being blocked. i hear most google services are blocked , too , because of XinJiang. very annoying .
Try www.unblockbook.net (http://www.unblockbook.net) , I have been using it.

[Mobydog]

I totally agree. China appears to be following Japan down the same path of quantitative stagnation. When the Japanese bubble went bust in 1990, the Japanese government spent the next 20 years building bridges to nowhere. They have great looking roads, but the IMF claims their national debt is expected to hit 250% of GDP by 2014! WOW!And I thought Japan's troubles started with the "Plaza Accord".. having to devalue 51% of your currency does that real fast - google for it. Notice, US has been also trying to force china to fall into the same trap for quite awhile now. But China isn't Occupied Japan or Germany. Yet, USA debt is coming 12 trillion soon against a 14 trillion economy, better to concern your own backyard first.


China seems doing the same thing. Currently their banks are very liquid, but time will tell if they can manage such massive debt inflation.I can't tell the future like you. But I'm pretty sure China needs those infrastructures for their interiors - unlike Japan. Further, China is not just building Roads, bridge 'n' stuff.

[fooj]

And I thought Japan's troubles started with the "Plaza Accord".. having to devalue 51% of your currency does that real fast - google for it. Notice, US has been also trying to force china to fall into the same trap for quite awhile now. But China isn't Occupied Japan or Germany. Yet, USA debt is coming 12 trillion soon against a 14 trillion economy, better to concern your own backyard first.

I can't tell the future like you. But I'm pretty sure China needs those infrastructures for their interiors - unlike Japan. Further, China is not just building Roads, bridge 'n' stuff.

In my opinion, the US is setting itself up for keynesian holocaust of epic proportions, I never claimed the West is in any better shape.

I am aware of the Plaza Accord, but Japan's pain and suffering did not manifest itself till the asset price bubble burst in 1990 and their solution then, is the same as what the US and China are doing today, pumping massive amounts of liquidity into the system.

I agree with you, what happened in Japan and what is going on in China is not an exact comparison and you do make a good point, infrastructure spending in China is a benefit. I trust the Chinese are smart enough not to destroy their central banks while they're at it. Time will tell.

[Mastermind]

And then we have to wonder: What happens when 1.3 billion people suddenly have to experience the consequences of going bust on a big scale.

[fooj]

The same standard? Of course not! Until CCP allows media to report on riots freely, then let's talk about standards.

btw, I have been in China for almost two months now. Facebook was blocked couple days after I got here, and youtube was blocked long before I got here. They were blocked long before the riot, so what is the reason for blocking them? Even hotmail was blocked for two days in June!

yes, militaryphotos.net is NOT blocked.

Call it a gut feeling, but I feel crap like this can't last forever. Whether it be a natural progression to a more centrist leader or a forced regime change, whatever, I just don't see the current situation lasting forever. Whether it be greater prosperity or greater hardship and it might not necessarily be a move towards democracy, but, sooner or later something fundamental is going to shift in the way the government conducts itself.