Avigdor Lieberman orders embassies to put up picture of hitler

[Rayber]

Jerusalem - Israel's ultra-nationalist Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has ordered embassies abroad to use a photo of Adolf Hitler meeting a top Palestinian cleric to counter international criticism over a Jerusalem settlement project, a senior Israeli official said on Wednesday.The decision to circulate a 1941 photo featuring the Nazi dictator sitting with the then grand mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini is aimed at easing pressure on Israel over a construction project on land in annexed east Jerusalem once owned by the cleric, the official told AFP

"The foreign minister ordered the distribution of the photo to all embassies abroad as a response to the Shepherd Hotel incident in order to prove a well-known point that the mufti collaborated with Hitler," the official said on condition of anonymity.
Foreign ministry staff opposed the move, he added, one of the latest in a series of disagreements they have had with their firebrand boss since he was sworn in on March 31.
The United States last week summoned the Israeli ambassador to Washington, demanding that the project in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood of occupied east Jersualem be halted, a call echoed across the international community.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flatly rejected the demand, saying Israel's sovereignty over east Jerusalem, which it occupied and annexed in 1967, was "unquestionable" -- a claim not recognised by the international community.
The Shepherd Hotel is located on a site known to Palestinians as Karm al-Mufti, which had once belonged to Husseini, and in 1985 was bought by American Jewish millionaire Irving Moskowitz.
Husseini led a number of violent campaigns against the Jewish community and the British authorities in Palestine in the 1920s and 1930s. He allied himself with the Nazis as an anti-British leader during World War II.


http://www.vosizneias.com/35415/2009/07/22/jerusalem-israeli-fm-wants-hitler-photo-to-mute-world-pressure/


Only english article i could find at the moment

[NimDod]

here's one with a less sensational headline

Last update - 23:44 22/07/2009
Israel circulates photo of Hitler greeting late Palestinian mufti

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has ordered diplomats to use an old photograph of a former Palestinian religious leader meeting Adolf Hitler to counter world criticism of a Jewish building plan for East Jerusalem.

Israeli officials said on Wednesday that Lieberman told Israeli ambassadors to circulate the 1941 shot in Berlin of the Nazi leader seated next to Haj Amin al-Husseini, the late mufti or top Muslim religious leader in Jerusalem.
...
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102225.html

[markjh]

Alan M. Dershowitz: The Jews Are Yours

The official leader of the Palestinians, Haj Amin al-Husseini, spent the war years in Berlin with Hitler, serving as a consultant on the Jewish question. He was taken on a tour of Auschwitz and expressed support for the mass murder of European Jews. He also sought to “solve the problems of the Jewish element in Palestine and other Arab countries” by employing “the same method” being used “in the Axis countries.” He would not be satisfied with the Jewish residents of Palestine—many of whom were descendants of Sephardic Jews who had lived there for hundreds, even thousands, of years—remaining as a minority in a Muslim state. Like Hitler, he wanted to be rid of “every last Jew.” As Husseini wrote in his memoirs, “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’”

Continued here: http://www.hudsonny.org/2009/07/will-hamass-new-culture-war-acknowledge-its-historic-ties-to-nazism.php

[Atlantic Friend]

Exactly whose pressure is this supposed to ease?

[Player]

I can't even describe how stupid this is. This guy is full of hatred for the Palestinians, which makes him too biased to perform his job correctly.

[Flamming_Python]

Playing the Hitler card again are we? Very mature...

[gilgoul]

I can't even describe how stupid this is. This guy is full of hatred for the Palestinians, which makes him too biased to perform his job correctly.


Says who?
Haaretz and the leftist pundits?
This guy, as you say, is really far from being the extremist many people paint him.
He is hardcore on his patriotic stance, but in the same time would agree to a palestinian state, simply stating that if arab jews identify that much with their Palestinian brethen, the triangle could be swapped to the palestinian state in exchange for Ariel, Maale Adumim and the Etzion Bloc.
Actually, this is much more pragmatic than many a stances of the traditional conservatives in Israel.
His proposal for a pledge of aliegence was not only directed at arabs, but also at the haredi population that is encroaching progressively on the other populations of this country, and he is the only politician that had the balls to say that clearly.
But it is way easier for the lefties to paint him as some kind of fascist, because he says aloud what everybody thinks and says quietly.
Political correctness is definitely our worst ennemy.

[gilgoul]

Playing the Hitler card again are we? Very mature...
Why, stating clearly what many prefer to ignore is definitely something refreshing.
Just like correctly defining the west bank as "disputed territory" instead of the general lingo.
Hadj Amin Al Husseini was a racist ****, a ultra nationalist that is greatly responsible for the suffering of many Arabs residing in the British Mandate of Palestine.
He also was at the origin of the creation of the 13th Waffen SS Handschar Mountain Division, composed at 90% of Bosnian Muslims.
Why shouldn't that "inconvenient truth" be told, and told again, until it is understood.
In a wolrd were zionism is compared with racism, while it is not even a nationalism, it is important to call a cat by his name, and Muhammad Amin Al Husseini, one of the heros of "palestinian" ethos, a scumbag nazi collaborator.

[walford]

I understand and appreciate that, but there are plenty of statements about wanting to eradicate all of the Jews by contemporary Arabs that would be far more effective than playing the Hitler card.

[cltknight]

Very interesting :) The nazi card again.

[chauncy republicans]

I agree with you Walford, but Hitler and the holocaust are physical examples of what happens when vigilance against such hatred is not taken.
I have no idea what it would feel like to know that such racism against my people exists enough to lead to the brutal murder of millions of innocents, but I don't think I'd want to risk overlooking it if I did.

[ase290406]

We have more than enough statements from Iran to "use", so we don't "play the nazi card" no need to. The thing is, we are requiered to give away a property (to the Palestinians) which was home to a Palestinian pro-Nazi leader. This is very symbolic, in the wrong way.

Notwistading the fact that the status of Jerusalem is supposed to be left to the negotiations phase. Now Israel is required to give away parts of Jerusalem - which is not exactly just another city for us - before any serios talking have even started! I wouldn't agree to that either, if I was in any position of influence.

[cltknight]

Last time i checked Hitler was quite popular figure and had many pictures taken with Chamberlain, Staline, Hirohito...etc, but i see nobody blaming the British, the Russians, Japanese, the French(Vichy regime) or even the Germans. Avigdor needs to get a grip, and focus on the real issues.

[chauncy republicans]

Chamberlain, Stalin, and Hirohito didn't want to murder Jews.

[walford]

...Now Israel is required to give away parts of Jerusalem - which is not exactly just another city for us - before any serios talking have even started! I wouldn't agree to that either, if I was in any position of influence.In the case of Jerusalem, citing history is appropriate. It should be emphasized often and forcefully that Jerusalem was open to ALL religions ONLY when it fell under Israeli jurisdiction. For centuries before that, it was held exclusively for Islam. Jewish and Christian holy sites were often neglected and even desecrated when left to the tender mercies of the Arabs. THAT should be pointed out also.

Any division of Jerusalem will necessarily create another enclave where non-Muslims are prohibited.

That is unacceptable and for Westerners to promote this result is absurd.

[Atlantic Friend]

Chamberlain, Stalin, and Hirohito didn't want to murder Jews.

Stalin apparently was okay with it.

This being said, the whole 'Hitler picture' thing is as relevant to 2009 issue of Jerusalem as a painting of Joan of Arc would be to negotiations over the Channel Islands. Looks like someone's enjoying himself at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and little else.

[NavyTimes]

Well, that crazy ass ambassador they put here last time could't be any more miserable whatever she did, so a ****ing Hitler picture wouldnt make that much difference. Shame if the new guy gets of to such a ****ty start though.

[cltknight]

Chamberlain, Stalin, and Hirohito didn't want to murder Jews.

Was just making a point, that having had your picture taken with Hitler was not a crime. How many Jews did that mufti kill during WW2? Seriously, the nazi card is getting old.

[RoyB]

Was just making a point, that having had your picture taken with Hitler was not a crime. How many Jews did that mufti kill during WW2? Seriously, the nazi card is getting old.
I can tell that that Mufti killed many Jews before, during, and after WW2.
The handshake between Hitler and the Mufti of Jerusalem wasn't just a deed of being nice.. but an agreement between the two to collaborate.
There were joint operations between the Nazis and the Arabs, or at least planned operations, such as 'Operation Atlas', and more..
Can you even imagine what would have happened if then named Palestine be conquered by the Nazis? what would have happened to the Jewish settlements back then?
If you'll run more background checks about this time, in that particular area, you will find out many things.

Oh and one more thing..
The Nazi 'Card'(which is a totally offensive definition for an event that took the lives of 6 million Jews, IMO) will never get old. ever!

[Atlantic Friend]

The Grand Mufti, rabid antisemite that he was, is dead. So is Hitler, thank God for small mercies. So honestly, I don't see what kind of impact (and upon whom) the picture will have.

I do think Israel has subtle enough ambassadors so they won't flash the picture at every official meeting and say "Look, here, Hitler! So give us what we want!"

[cltknight]

I can tell that that Mufti killed many Jews before, during, and after WW2.
The handshake between Hitler and the Mufti of Jerusalem wasn't just a deed of being nice.. but an agreement between the two to collaborate.
There were joint operations between the Nazis and the Arabs, or at least planned operations, such as 'Operation Atlas', and more..
Can you even imagine what would have happened if then named Palestine be conquered by the Nazis? what would have happened to the Jewish settlements back then?
If you'll run more background checks about this time, in that particular area, you will find out many things.

Oh and one more thing..
The Nazi 'Card'(which is a totally offensive definition for an event that took the lives of 6 million Jews, IMO) will never get old. ever!

If you had notice your " contribution" is full of "IMAGINE", "IF" and " what would happened" :) Please, we need facts not just blabla bla..etc.
The fact and the matter is that most foreign legions that fought with the Nazis were Croatians, French, Romanians and Ukranians. On the other hands, Most of the French troops that liberated Italy were of Arab origins.( there is a movie about them its called the days of glory( les Indigènes).

NB: A lot of jews were saved by muslims during world war 2.

http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/19163/

[RoyB]

If you had notice your " contribution" is full of "IMAGINE", "IF" and " what would happened" :) Please, we need facts not just blabla bla..etc.
The fact and the matter is that most foreign legions that fought with the Nazis were Croatians, French, Romanians and Ukranians. On the other hands, Most of the French troops that liberated Italy were of Arab origins.( there is a movie about them its called the days of glory( les Indigènes).
You're ignoring the point.
Read my post again, and concentrate on the facts I provided.

[Atlantic Friend]

There were joint operations between the Nazis and the Arabs, or at least planned operations, such as 'Operation Atlas', and more..

Planned operations? I'm sure there were lots of planned operations both sides of the battleline. For example there were Jewish militants trained by Mussolini's Fascist Italy for actions against British troops in Palestine in the late 1930s...

Does any of this matter in 2009?

[IDF_TANKER]

The whole "he's just playing the Nazi card" explanation is too simplistic. I suggest to you all read the interview he gave (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156225) after being appointed as Foreigner Minister, where he explains in much detail his views. Hi is not just playing "a Nazi card", he's rather making attempt to explain that Israeli-Palestinian conflict has many different aspects and is much more complicated, than just the usual over-simplified "you are occupants, that's why they hate you - stop occupying, they will stop hating you" explanation, which have being consensus amongst the western "liberals".

[gilgoul]

Last time i checked Hitler was quite popular figure and had many pictures taken with Chamberlain, Staline, Hirohito...etc, but i see nobody blaming the British, the Russians, Japanese, the French(Vichy regime) or even the Germans. Avigdor needs to get a grip, and focus on the real issues.


Well, are those even comparable?
And we ain't talking about a picture, but a voluntary participation in the propaganda machine, a call to Jihad against the Brits and the Jews, active recruitment of volunteers into a specialy created Muslim Waffen SS Division!
Not counting the Muslims from the Soviet Union who also volunteered in the Axis forces.

It may be outrageous, out of the subject as you put it, but it has the deep merit to bring back to life realities too easily forgotten in the oh so sophisticated world of the chancelleries.

[gilgoul]

The whole "he's just playing the Nazi card" explanation is too simplistic. I suggest to you all read the interview he gave (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156225) after being appointed as Foreigner Minister, where he explains in much detail his views. Hi is not just playing "a Nazi card", he's rather making attempt to explain that Israeli-Palestinian conflict has many different aspects and is much more complicated, than just the usual over-simplified "you are occupants, that's why they hate you - stop occupying, they will stop hating you" explanation, which have being consensus amongst the western "liberals".

X2
The reasons of the conflict are way deeper than the "occupation", and the conflict started way before Israel even existed as a modern state.
I get the feeling that since we are perceived as the "soft" and reasonable side in front of the arab irredentism, it is understood that we'd be more likely to make concessions.
While the arab "peace partners" have yet to recognize the right of Israel to exist, or even simply the state of Israel.

[Atlantic Friend]

, it is understood that we'd be more likely to make concessions.
While the arab "peace partners" have yet to recognize the right of Israel to exist, or even simply the state of Israel.

Jordan and Egypt haven't ?

[gilgoul]

Stalin apparently was okay with it.

This being said, the whole 'Hitler picture' thing is as relevant to 2009 issue of Jerusalem as a painting of Joan of Arc would be to negotiations over the Channel Islands. Looks like someone's enjoying himself at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and little else.

Of course, he is an odd ball in this game, il met les pieds dans le plat, and this is just perfect.
Calling him a fascist foesn't make him so, it just shows the poor understanding of most pundits on the situation here.
And his way of shaking the comfortable diplomatic world may be counterproductive, but Israeli diplomacy has been at least inefficient if not outright negative in it's pathetic attempts at defining and explaining our policies.
Mainly, to it's discharge, because the Isreali society and political echelon have been unable themselves to define a policy and long term goals of the State in the disputed territories.

[RoyB]

NB: A lot of jews were saved by muslims during world war 2.

http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/19163/
So?
Were not talking about what Muslims in different parts of the globe did.
Again, read my post.

Planned operations? I'm sure there were lots of planned operations both sides of the battleline. For example there were Jewish militants trained by Mussolini's Fascist Italy for actions against British troops in Palestine in the late 1930s...

Does any of this matter in 2009?
Planned and executed.
I can't really see your point..
What I'm talking about here is the Mufti's alliance with Hitler, and its call and actions for the extermination of Jews, together with Hitler.

[Atlantic Friend]

And his way of shaking the comfortable diplomatic world may be counterproductive, but Israeli diplomacy has been at least inefficient if not outright negative in it's pathetic attempts at defining and explaining our policies.

I'm all for Israel formulating a vision for its policies and role in the ME - I'm just not quite sure what bandying about pictures of Hitler in Israeli embassies will do about it. Are they to be used as some sort of motivational poster for Israeli diplomatic staffers, like a big "Know your Enemy" sign, or are they to be used in diplomatic discussions with the host country, in which case it's going to be "Look, Hitler, now stop discussing" ? In both cases I'm not sure what it'll accomplish.

That's odd, because I do remember Liebermann putting together a complete approach to the occupied territories issue, with political and economical dimensions...

[Atlantic Friend]

So?
Were not talking about what Muslims in different parts of the globe did.
Again, read my post.

Planned and executed.
I can't really see your point..
What I'm talking about here is the Mufti's alliance with Hitler, and its call and actions for the extermination of Jews, together with Hitler.



In WW2 there were Muslims in Free French forces, Muslims in British uniform fighting the Nazis as well - outnumbering the Handschar guys many times over. So why the fixation here?And what is the relevance of that with the situation in 2009?

[cltknight]

This attempts by Mr.Liberman to tie Arabs to Nazism is...... hilarious.
I guess he is feeling the heat from the west regarding the settlements issue and rather than coming up with pragmatic solutions, he is using the Nazi issue and statements like " he has a conflict of interest regarding the issue of settlements. A real clown.

[RoyB]

This attempts by Mr.Liberman to tie Arabs to Nazism is...... hilarious.
I guess he is feeling the heat from the west regarding the settlements issue and rather than coming up with pragmatic solutions, he is using the Nazi issue and statements like " he has a conflict of interest regarding the issue of settlements. A real clown.
Like you have any idea about Lieberman's opinions and suggestions besides the usual 'lost in translation' stuff you hear on the news..

[RoyB]

In WW2 there were Muslims in Free French forces, Muslims in British uniform fighting the Nazis as well - outnumbering the Handschar guys many times over. So why the fixation here?And what is the relevance of that with the situation in 2009?
I don't generalize Muslims.
I was just replying to a post.. go check that out and you'll understand what I'm saying.

[IDF_TANKER]

This attempts by Mr.Liberman to tie Arabs to Nazism is...... hilarious.
I guess he is feeling the heat from the west regarding the settlements issue and rather than coming up with pragmatic solutions, he is using the Nazi issue and statements like " he has a conflict of interest regarding the issue of settlements. A real clown.

I suggest you to learn the subject before making opinion about it. Right now you picture yourself as an ignorant fool. Read his interview here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156225), for starters, you'd be surprised how pragmatic he's.

[gilgoul]

Jordan and Egypt haven't ?

We are not negotiating our heartland with the Egyptians nor the Jordanians right now, and BTW, by consolidating the border, the peace treaty with Jordan has cut the "Jordanian Option" in a resolution of the conflict with the Palestinians.
Once again, in those negotiations, there should be no room for "right and wrong", pseudo moralistic judgments and so on, but just pragmatism.
If a Palestinian State is one day able to stand on it's own forces, what kind of relationship can we expect, what kind of guarantees are we offered, could the Jewish residents of the disputed territories remain in place, what with the access to the holy sites, would the Jews be barred from them like during Jordanian times?
-Apparté: (actually in Hebron the situation was even worse, since from Ottoman times the Jews were not allowed to enter the cave of the patriarchs at all, but just climb up to the seventh step of an outside stair case, and we know what happened to the Jews of Hebron in 1929, 37 of them massacred, hundreds injured, an entire community, that had never left the area, uprooted, barred from the most ancient of the Biblical holy sites.-
The questions of principle aren't even solved, but we are the bad boyz because we don't want to call it quit and withdraw to the borders that were the very cause of the 1967 war.
I was once a fervent partisan of the Oslo process, and like many Israelis, the terror campaign orchestrated by Arafat and his stooges has taught me something, Arafat should get a posthumas Oscar for his acting, or the western Chancelleries and the leftist Elite in Israel should get a new pair of glasses, because in retrospect, the writting was on the wall all along, but nobody looked at it.

[cltknight]

I suggest you to learn the subject before making opinion about it. Right now you picture yourself as an ignorant fool. Read his interview here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156225), for starters, you'd be surprised how pragmatic he's.

I might be an ignorant fool, but at least i am not a retarded ignorant who thinks that hanging a picture of hitler with a mofti is the solution to the conflict. In other words, look, you see the mofti is an arab and guess what he is shaking Hitlers hand, therefore , we can not negotiate with them and let build some more settlement. Yeah right that makes you look smart.

NB: the issue was not about how pragmatic Liberman is, but the issue at hand was how hanging the picture of Hitler with a mofti is going to help The Israelis.

[IDF_TANKER]

I might be an ignorant fool, but at least i am not a retarded ignorant who thinks that hanging a picture of hitler with a mofti is the solution to the conflict. In other words, look, you see the mofti is an arab and guess what he is shaking Hitler hand, therefore , we can not negotiate with them.

That's why Lieberman doing that - as a solution for conflict? :cantbeli:
Read the frigging interview, you are an ignorant fool.

[Atlantic Friend]

We are not negotiating our heartland with the Egyptians nor the Jordanians right now, and BTW, by consolidating the border, the peace treaty with Jordan has cut the "Jordanian Option" in a resolution of the conflict with the Palestinians.

I would have thought Jordan was a natural partner for any negotiation about the statute of Jerusalem.


Once again, in those negotiations, there should be no room for "right and wrong", pseudo moralistic judgments and so on, but just pragmatism.
If a Palestinian State is one day able to stand on it's own forces, what kind of relationship can we expect, what kind of guarantees are we offered, could the Jewish residents of the disputed territories remain in place, what with the access to the holy sites, would the Jews be barred from them like during Jordanian times?

Possession of and access to the ME's holy sites have always been tricky issues - look at the Crimean War for example. Whoever physically controls the style might be tempted some day to keep the site for itself. I don't know if the issue of Jerusalem will EVER be solved in this respect, given the state of hostility existing between Jews and Muslims - with Christians dragged nilly-willy in the middle of it.


-Apparté: (actually in Hebron the situation was even worse, since from Ottoman times the Jews were not allowed to enter the cave of the patriarchs at all, but just climb up to the seventh step of an outside stair case, and we know what happened to the Jews of Hebron in 1929, 37 of them massacred, hundreds injured, an entire community, that had never left the area, uprooted, barred from the most ancient of the Biblical holy sites.-

And 1936 as well IIRC. Wasn't there murderous riots on Hebron then?


The questions of principle aren't even solved, but we are the bad boyz because we don't want to call it quit and withdraw to the borders that were the very cause of the 1967 war

I was once a fervent partisan of the Oslo process, and like many Israelis, the terror campaign orchestrated by Arafat and his stooges has taught me something, Arafat should get a posthumas Oscar for his acting, or the western Chancelleries and the leftist Elite in Israel should get a new pair of glasses, because in retrospect, the writting was on the wall all along, but nobody looked at it.

In said negotiation Israel didn't have much of a choice as to who to negotiate with. The Fatah and now the Hamas have been quite apt at making sure there wouldn't be any democratic alternative - and I cannot shake the feeling that the situation also satisfies those in Israel who refuse any kind of negotiated settlement. The reactions to the Hamas takeover of Gaza in various forums was quite instructive - and disheartening.

[cltknight]

That's why Lieberman doing that - as a solution for conflict? :cantbeli:
Read the frigging interview, you are an ignorant fool.

Come on, did i hurt your feelings? need a hug? get a grip. I did read the interview and again we are not talking about his policies, the issue at hand is how hanging the fr#$%^ picture is going to help the Israelis, you Ignorant fool.

[IDF_TANKER]

Come on, did i hurt your feelings? need a hug? get a grip. I did read the interview and again we not talking about his policies, the issue at hand is how hanging the fr#$%^ picture is going to help the Israelis, you Ignorant fool.

This is your previous post:

I might be an ignorant fool, but at least i am not a retarded ignorant who thinks that hanging a picture of hitler with a mofti is the solution to the conflict. In other words, look, you see the mofti is an arab and guess what he is shaking Hitlers hand, therefore , we can not negotiate with them and let build some more settlement. Yeah right that makes you look smart.


On basis of this tiny bit of information, the picture, you made up a whole story - to expand settlements, the lack of willingness to negotiate and reach a real solution etc. I'm not going even to ask you how you managed to deduce all of it, especially after, as you claim, you have read the article. Your response is nonconstructive and childish in its essence. In fact, I have a feeling that I'm talking to a juvenile moron. Prove me wrong.

[markjh]

I'll just quote the whole source I posted...:|


July 25, 2009 1:00 AM
by Alan M. Dershowitz
Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Harvard Law School

Will Hamas's New "Culture War" Acknowledge Its Historic Ties to Nazism?

Hamas, the terrorist organization that specializes in targeting civilians, has now decided, according to a New York Times headline, to shift “from rockets to culture war” in an effort to garner public support for its cause. Part of its ongoing public relations campaign is to portray the Israelis as the “new Nazis” and the Palestinians as the “new Jews.” In order to bring about this transformation, it must engage in a form of Holocaust denial that erases the historical record of widespread Palestinian complicity with the “old Nazis” in perpetrating the real Holocaust. It has become an important part of the mantra of Hamas supporters that neither the Palestinians people nor its leadership played any role in the Holocaust. Listen to Mohammad Ahmadinejad talking to students at Columbia University:

If [the Holocaust] is a reality, we need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role to play in it. So why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price of an event they had nothing to do with?...The Palestinian people didn’t commit any crime. They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish communities and the Christian communities in peace at the time.

The conclusion that is supposed to follow from this “fact” is that the establishment of Israel in the wake of the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people was unfair to the Palestinians. Central to this claim is that neither the Palestinian people nor their leadership bore any responsibility for the Holocaust, and if any reparations are owed the Jewish people, it is from Germany and not from the Palestinians. The propounders of this historical argument suggest that the West created the Jewish state out of guilt over the Holocaust. It might have been understandable if a portion of Germany (or Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, France, Austria, or other collaborator nations) had been allocated for a Jewish homeland—but why Palestine? Palestine, according to this claim, was as much a “victim” as were the Jews.

I hear this argument on university campuses around the United States, and even more so in Europe.

The truth is that the Palestinian leadership, supported by the Palestinian masses, played a significant role in Hitler’s Holocaust.

The official leader of the Palestinians, Haj Amin al-Husseini, spent the war years in Berlin with Hitler, serving as a consultant on the Jewish question. He was taken on a tour of Auschwitz and expressed support for the mass murder of European Jews. He also sought to “solve the problems of the Jewish element in Palestine and other Arab countries” by employing “the same method” being used “in the Axis countries.” He would not be satisfied with the Jewish residents of Palestine—many of whom were descendants of Sephardic Jews who had lived there for hundreds, even thousands, of years—remaining as a minority in a Muslim state. Like Hitler, he wanted to be rid of “every last Jew.” As Husseini wrote in his memoirs, “Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: ‘The Jews are yours.’”

The mufti was apparently planning to return to Palestine in the event of a German victory and to construct a death camp, modeled after Auschwitz, near Nablus. Husseini incited his pro-Nazi followers with the words “Arise, O sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor.”

Not only did Husseini exhort his followers to murder the Jews; he also took an active role in trying to bring about that result. For example, in 1944, a German-Arab commando unit, under Husseini’s command, parachuted into Palestine and with the intention of poisoning Tel Aviv’s wells.

Husseini also helped to inspire a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq and helped to organize thousands of Muslims in the Balkans into military units known as Handselar divisions, which carried out atrocities against Yugoslav Jews, Serbs, and Gypsies. After a meeting with Hitler, he recorded the following in his diary:

The Mufti: “The Arabs were Germany’s natural friends…. They were therefore prepared to cooperate with Germany with all their hearts and stood ready to participate in a war, not only negatively by the commission of acts of sabotage and the instigation of revolutions, but also positively by the formation of an Arab Legion. In this struggle, the Arabs were striving for the independence and the unity of Palestine, Syria and Iraq….”

Hitler: “Germany was resolved, step by step, to ask one European nation after the other to solve its Jewish problem, and at the proper time direct a similar appeal to non-European nations as well. Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power. The moment that Germany’s tank divisions and air squadrons had made their appearance south of the Caucasus, the public appeal requested by the Grand Mufti could go out to the Arab world.”

Hitler assured Husseini about how he would be regarded following a Nazi victory and “the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere.” In that hour, the mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. It would then be his task to set off the Arab operations that he had secretly prepared.
Husseini’s significant contributions to the Holocaust were multifold: first, he pleaded with Hitler to exterminate European Jewry and advised the Nazis on how to do so; second, he visited Auschwitz and urged Eichmann and Himmler to accelerate the pace of the mass murder; third, he personally stopped 4,000 children, accompanied by 500 adults, from leaving Europe and had them sent to Auschwitz and gassed; fourth, he prevented another two thousand Jews from leaving Romania for Palestine and one thousand from leaving Hungary for Palestine, who were subsequently sent to death camps; fifth, he organized the killing of 12,600 Bosnian Jews by Muslims, whom he recruited to the Waffen-SS Nazi-Bosnian division. He was also one of the few non-Germans who was made privy to the Nazi extermination while it was taking place. It was in his official capacity as the leader of the Palestinian people and its official representative that he made his pact with Hitler, spent the war years in Berlin, and worked actively with Eichmann, Himmler, von Ribbentrop, and Hitler himself to “accelerate” the final solution by exterminating the Jews of Europe and laying plans to exterminate the Jews of Palestine.

Not only did the Grand Mufti play a significant role in the murder of European Jewry, he sought to replicate the genocide against the Jews in Israel during the war that produced a so-called Nakba. The war started by the Palestinians against the Jews in 1947, and the war started by the Arab states in 1948 against the new state of Israel, were both genocidal wars. Their goal was not merely the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the area but their total annihilation. The leaders said so and the actions of their subordinates reflected this genocidal goal. They were aided in their efforts by Nazi soldiers—former SS and Gestapo members—who had been given asylum from war crime prosecution in Egypt and who had been recruited by the grand mufti to complete Hitler’s work.

It is also fair to say that Husseini’s pro-Nazi sympathies and support were widespread among his Palestinian followers, who regarded him as a hero even after the war and the disclosure of his role in Nazi atrocities. The notorious photograph of Husseini and Hitler, together in Berlin, was proudly displayed in many Palestinian homes, even after Husseini’s activities in the Holocaust became widely known and praised among Palestinians.

Husseini is still regarded by many as “the George Washington” of the Palestinian people, and if the Palestinians were to get a state of their own, he would be honored as our founding father is. He was their hero, despite—more likely, because of—his active role in the genocide against the Jewish people, which he openly supported and assisted. According to Husseini’s biographer, “Large parts of the Arab world shared [Husseini’s] sympathy with Nazi Germany during the Second World War…. Haj Amin’s popularity among the Palestinian Arabs and within the Arab states actually increased more than ever during his period with the Nazis.”

In 1948, the National Palestinian Council elected Husseini as its president, even though he was a wanted war criminal living in exile in Egypt. Indeed, Husseini is still revered today among many Palestinians as a national hero. Yasser Arafat, in an interview conducted in 2002 and reprinted in the Palestinian daily Al-Quds on August 2, 2002, called Husseini “our hero,” referring to the Palestinian people. Arafat also boasted of being “one of his troops,” even though he knew Husseini was “considered an ally of Nazis.” Today many Palestinians in East Jerusalem want to turn his home into a shrine. (Ironically, it is this home that was bought by a Jew to build the controversial Jewish housing development in East Jerusalem.)

It is a myth, therefore—another myth perpetrated by Iran’s mythmaker-in-chief as well as by Hamas and by many on the hard left who seek to demonize Israel—that the Palestinians played “no role” in the Holocaust. Considering the active support by the Palestinian leadership and masses for the losing side of a genocidal war, it was more than fair for the United Nations to offer them a state of their own on more than half of the arable land of the British mandate.

The Palestinians rejected that offer and several since because they wanted there not to be a Jewish state more than they wanted their own state. That was Husseini’s position. Hamas still takes that position. Perhaps their new “culture war” will finally cause them to reconsider—and to accept the two state solution.

http://www.hudsonny.org/2009/07/will-hamass-new-culture-war-acknowledge-its-historic-ties-to-nazism.php

[cltknight]

This is your previous post:


On basis of this tiny bit of information, the picture, you made up a whole story - to expand settlements, the lack of willingness to negotiate and reach a real solution etc. I'm not going even to ask you how you managed to deduce all of it, especially after, as you claim, you have read the article. Your response is nonconstructive and childish in its essence. In fact, I have a feeling that I'm talking to a juvenile moron. Prove me wrong.

Me a moron, coming from u I'll take it as a badge of honor
I have nothing to prove to a retarded moron
try to read my earlier posts at a slower pace,it might be too much for you to digest.

[gilgoul]

I would have thought Jordan was a natural partner for any negotiation about the statute of Jerusalem.

If there is one thing that is sure, is that the Jordano-Palestinian federal solution is dead and buried.
BTW, nobody was too upset when Jordan annexed Judea and Samaria from 1949 to 1967.


Possession of and access to the ME's holy sites have always been tricky issues - look at the Crimean War for example. Whoever physically controls the style might be tempted some day to keep the site for itself. I don't know if the issue of Jerusalem will EVER be solved in this respect, given the state of hostility existing between Jews and Muslims - with Christians dragged nilly-willy in the middle of it.

Since Israel declared it's independence in 1948, all religions have been able to access their holy sites everywhere under Israeli sovereignty. The same happened in Jerusalem, with a twist at that, since the Temple Mount (the esplanade built by Herod the Great that hosted the Jewish Second Temple, and now Hosts the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque) is under the exclusive control of the Waqf (Muslim religious organisation that manages all things belonging to it), and visit there is under very strict rules set by the Waqf itself, and enforced in part by the Israeli police and in part by the Waqf guards), access to the Dome of the Rock is forbidden to non Muslims, access to Al Aqsa Mosque is also severely restricted.

Also, since the Oslo agreements, Israeli Jews can't access the ruins of ancient Jericho, and since 2001, the tomb of the Patriarch Joseph has been burned and desecrated, and Jews can access it only once a month under military escort, at night.

In contrast, Israel became a haven for many religious minorities of the Middle East, the Bahai being the most spectacular but not unique exemple.



In said negotiation Israel didn't have much of a choice as to who to negotiate with. The Fatah and now the Hamas have been quite apt at making sure there wouldn't be any democratic alternative - and I cannot shake the feeling that the situation also satisfies those in Israel who refuse any kind of negotiated settlement. The reactions to the Hamas takeover of Gaza in various forums was quite instructive - and disheartening.

The issue here is, WHAT DO WE NEGOCIATE?
We already negociated with a terrorist, Yasser Arafat, and true, you make peace with your ennemies, and not your friends.

But I would say, and this is a personal opinion, that everybody keeps seating around tables because it became a nice business (at the expense of the US and EU taxpayer) and nobody wants to lose the perks.
But lets be honest, we have reached a dead end, and while the Palestinians can easily deny any responsibility in the mess they have been making fr themselves on blaming everything on the juice, some elements of the ISraeli society do exactly the same, excusing their incapacity to govern properly, to build a society project, on enforcing laws and improving the environment, on the continued conflict with the Arab world.


Correction to my precedent apparté: It was 67 and not 37 jews butchered in Hebron in August 1929, the same day the Jews of Safed (Along with Hebron, Jerusalem and Tiberias, forming the 4 holy cities of Judaism) were also attacked by their arab Neighbors, as well as in Jaffa, Lod, Jerusalem, etc.. Following the visit to the Western wall of a jewish "delegation under british escort, and the spreading of a false rumor of insult against the Prophet by guess who, Hadj amin Al Husseini.

Second apparté, the peace with Egypt is at best cold, and the succession of Mubarak is a real hot potato.

About Jordan, a good friend of mine just filmed this documentary about an Israeli who went to learn arabic in Amman right after the peace agreement was signed, and he comes back 12 years later. no english subtitles yet, but a few conversations in English, i'll keep you posted as soon as an English version is published.

http://blip.tv/file/2309961/

[IDF_TANKER]

Me a moron, coming from u I'll take it as a badge of honor
I have nothing to prove to a retarded moron
try to read my earlier posts at a slower pace,it might be too much for you to digest.

And yet, nothing but the usual juvenile mumbling again, compensating over the lack of any real argument. Thanks for proving me right then.

[gilgoul]

Me a moron, coming from u I'll take it as a badge of honor
I have nothing to prove to a retarded moron
try to read my earlier posts at a slower pace,it might be too much for you to digest.
Hey internet tough guy, why don't you lower a bit the rethoric and try to keep it calm for a change?
Not even a dozen posts, and you already show a bad face.

[timetraveller]

Why, stating clearly what many prefer to ignore is definitely something refreshing.
Just like correctly defining the west bank as "disputed territory" instead of the general lingo.
Hadj Amin Al Husseini was a racist ****, a ultra nationalist that is greatly responsible for the suffering of many Arabs residing in the British Mandate of Palestine.
He also was at the origin of the creation of the 13th Waffen SS Handschar Mountain Division, composed at 90% of Bosnian Muslims.
Why shouldn't that "inconvenient truth" be told, and told again, until it is understood.
In a wolrd were zionism is compared with racism, while it is not even a nationalism, it is important to call a cat by his name, and Muhammad Amin Al Husseini, one of the heros of "palestinian" ethos, a scumbag nazi collaborator.


End of the day the way i see , Behaviour is on par with School ground antic's .
Yes it's true and it's been well documented about Mufti's ties with Hitler , It's people ignorance that don't care much for history is the real truth as is History taught in schools it doesn't teach you everything only a tiny small segment ..
which you have to learn for yourself ,

But off course you will defend such decision but in big picture what kind of picture does that portray ??

Does it give off a good impression in all honesty not in my eyes there is no honour to be had by stoopin to such tactics ...

Honour can be achieved if you are willing to be sensible instead using pics from History that make a point will not help your cause in the long term ..

Increase negativity

Lets not forget it wasn't the Palestinians that Assassinated the UN Envoy

[Ayub -al -Somal]

I think , anybody who would speak in the name of the state of Israel in an official manner should at least have his father and his grand father born there .
The original jews are people of the desert , the arabs are people of the desert , I'm sure they'd understand each other better ..lol
These crazy immigrants from Europe are just too zealous

[Ought Six]

ck:
"Last time i checked Hitler was quite popular figure...."Yes, Mein Kampf remains a best-seller in the Muslim world, and has been for many years. Hitler is highly respected among Isalmists. All the more reason to point out the fascist roots and connections of many modern Islamist movements.

[Fat Lazy American]

I think , anybody who would speak in the name of the state of Israel in an official manner should at least have his father and his grand father born there .

Is this just for Israel? Because boy, will Obama and Sarkozy ever be pissed if your new rule comes into effect.

[LRPV]

I think , anybody who would speak in the name of the state of Israel in an official manner should at least have his father and his grand father born there .

Is there any thinking behind this besides the current PA position?


The original jews are people of the desert , the arabs are people of the desert , I'm sure they'd understand each other better ..lol
These crazy immigrants from Europe are just too zealous

There is some discussion about what part of the desert....p-)

[Ayub -al -Somal]

FL American

Is this just for Israel? Because boy, will Obama and Sarkozy ever be pissed if your new rule comes into effect

The Israelis often brag about the being treated differently , I don't think I am suggesting anything outrageous here .lol
Seriously though , you will often find me on the opposing side of the argument made by the majority of the Israelis here , but I also admire them for various reasons .

LRPV , I am not aware of the PA position , I just made it up so just chill my friend :)

[LRPV]

It's cool, I'm not fussed at all. The PA position is that only Jews with a heritage in Israel prior to 1948 should have a right to remain. It's part of the "right of return" arguement.

[RoyB]

I think , anybody who would speak in the name of the state of Israel in an official manner should at least have his father and his grand father born there .
The original jews are people of the desert , the arabs are people of the desert , I'm sure they'd understand each other better ..lol
These crazy immigrants from Europe are just too zealous
What you're suggesting is both stupid and discriminating, And a lot of world leaders will disagree with you.(including the early Israelis).
Being crazy immigrants got nothing to do, but its just different stands and opinions from different people.
I suggest people to find out more about Lieberman's stand besides the usual crap from the world media.

[Danik]

This land was purchased in 1985. Who sold him the land?

At what point did this become illegal settlement building if its the rightful owner building on his land?

[Connaught Ranger]

Just a quick question:-

Has an "order" to hang a picture of Adolf Hitler in any Israeli building got any legal justification?

Could a person refuse to carry out such an "order" ?

[RoyB]

^You're gonna have a very short stay here, asshole.

[RoyB]

lol why that and why im an asshole?

i just poted a video were a israely minister is talking :)
She's an extreme Leftist and a delusional person, and the video you have posted is nothing but propaganda.
So yeah, you're an asshole, and eventually, you will be banned from posting in these forums.

[Difool]

lol why that and why im an asshole?

i just poted a video were a israely minister is talking :)
Exactly that's what he meant.

[Difool]

oh so she is a lefti minsiter, how she got then in the righti office? ^^

and lol propaganda, a minister is talking but nooo propagandaaaaarofl rofl
you can't handle criticism so you are the asshole :lol:

tshhhhhh
Better stop discussing that issue now.

[RoyB]

oh so she is a lefti minsiter, how she got then in the righti office? ^^

and lol propaganda, a minister is talking but nooo propagandaaaaarofl rofl
you can't handle criticism so you are the asshole :lol:

tshhhhhh
A former minister.
And its not criticism but pure propaganda, coming from one of the most propaganda spreading channels in YouTube.

[Difool]

She's an extreme Leftist and a delusional person, and the video you have posted is nothing but propaganda.
So yeah, you're an asshole, and eventually, you will be banned from posting in these forums.
No need to call him an asshole. Now you told us what you think of her and anybody can make up his own mind about her.

[RoyB]

No need to call him an asshole. Now you told us what you think of her and anybody can make up his own mind about her.
Fine, than he's not an asshole.
But members on this forum who usually start like him don't lest long.