Medvedev chides NATO over Georgia, Ukraine

[Atasas]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iixUMnyP1SvpqLuds4ACt56lczywD99M3LFG0

By MANSUR MIROVALEV (AP) – 10 hours ago

MOSCOW — Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said NATO is beginning to realize that Georgia and Ukraine should not be "dragged" into the alliance.

"The understanding that these respected states are not ready to make this sort of decision and that the alliance is not ready to absorb them is gradually understood," Medvedev said in a prerecorded interview broadcast Sunday on Russia's NTV television. "We don't think it's right to drag certain countries into military and political alliances against the will of their nationals."

Earlier this week, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden visited both ex-Soviet nations and pledged support for their efforts to break free of Russia's orbit and join the alliance.

Moscow has struggled to revive its clout in former Soviet states, and has often bristled at Washington for close relations with the pro-Western leaders of Ukraine and Georgia.

In Sunday's broadcast, Medvedev said that Ukraine, where the idea of joining the alliance remains unpopular, should hold a referendum to "provide a legitimate ground" for NATO membership.

As for Georgia, Medvedev said, "Does NATO need a state that has that many problems?"

Georgia's drive to join NATO added to the tensions before preceded Russia's war with the tiny Caucasus Mountains nation last summer. Since the war, Russia has persistently warned the U.S. not to rearm Georgia, and has ignored Western anger over its recognition of two Moscow-backed separatist regions in Georgia as independent nations.

Medvedev spoke disapprovingly of Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and said that his government harms historically close ties between Russian and Georgian nations. "Regimes, like that of Saakashvili, come and go, but feelings between the nations remain," Medvedev said.

The war drove already strained relations between Russia and the U.S. to a post-Cold War low. President Barack Obama has declared his intention to "reset" those ties, and both sides saw the July 6-8 Moscow summit as a chance to begin.

Medvedev emphasized the importance of good ties with Washington, but said Russia will not be pushed around — a stance often asserted by his tougher-talking predecessor Vladimir Putin, who is now prime minister.

In the NTV interview, Medvedev compared today's Russia to the Soviet Union.

"We want to see Russia as a strong state. Not for the sake of flexing muscles, not for teaching someone lessons, but for creating good life conditions for our citizens," he said.

At a summit in Romania last year, NATO leaders decided to offer Ukraine and Georgia a so-called "membership action plan" to prepare them to become members.

Faced with opposition from Moscow and after the Russian-Georgian war, NATO has since backed away from establishing the plan, but offered to step up military and political cooperation to help the countries achieve their goal of eventual membership.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

I know it could have fitted to some thread extensions, but few too many...? if mods would find the way to have this topic/release appropriately attached to those- I would not get offended- would appreciate!
thanks!

[sepheronx]

And eventualy the NATO craze will fall and Yuschenko will be out of power and another Pro-Russian will be in. As for Georgia, they will be politically hurt for a bit, until shakadouche is out and someone else who is neutral will be in.

[Snoshi]

And eventualy the NATO craze will fall and Yuschenko will be out of power and another Pro-Russian will be in. As for Georgia, they will be politically hurt for a bit, until shakadouche is out and someone else who is neutral will be in.

And then you wake up and realise that all was just a dream..

[sepheronx]

And then you wake up and realise that all was just a dream..

And then you realize that you are wrong, and always where. But then you realize it wasn't a dream, but reality (after it hit you hard in the face).

[Atasas]

calm down ... its only Bear...
Totally new and powerful waves from Kremlin- he has definitely been Reading MP.NET :lolz:
On a serious note- such announcements, after whole strategy/current ideological atmosphere, where Military might and Command has been of only realistic importance in recent years, bit risky change of tone?

[void]

And then you wake up and realise that all was just a dream..

Yeah because the fact that the vast majority of Ukrainians want no part of NATO or are at least not in favour of it is just a dream. Here is a fun fact, did you know that a higher percentage of Ukrainians want to join with the Russian Federation than want to join NATO? That should tell you something. But you dont see Russia pushing and pressuring Ukraine to merge do you?

[Soldat_Américain]

At some point I've stopped caring...the Russians won't leave...and Biden told Saka that he ain't gettin' his ish back...also read in the Wall Street Journal tht we aren't supplying them the weapons they want. So yeah...rhetoric gets boring.

[Russianlynxy]

To be quite honest I couldn't care less for what Georgia does. Point is they are never getting Ossetia or Abkhazia back and I think some "politicians" in Georgia have a hard time understanding that. I think the US stopped caring about Georgia as well, Saaka is a failed project and an embarrasment. There is a good Russian proverb for this: "Knuckles aren't thrown after a fight". This is Georgia's situation, too many desires at once, too late

What is more interesting to watch is what will happen in the Ukraine. The Orange Revolutionary movement has shown it's complete incompetence to cater to the Ukrainian people, and everything they currently stand for will become little more than a joke come election time, save for a small percentage of hardliners and nationalists. Even if Soros is planning another Coup d'Etat in Ukraine, there is really little to base it off of, it has to be based on something. Frankly for a degrading Ukraine, issues like joining NATO, the dog's breakfast which Yuschenko created from Holodomor, or banning of Russian language will not be a matter of priority for most Ukrainians.

Hope that Russia has an ace up it's sleve come November, in the interest of both the Russian and Ukrainian people.

[lightfire]

What is more interesting to watch is what will happen in the Ukraine. The Orange Revolutionary movement has shown it's complete incompetence to cater to the Ukrainian people, and everything they currently stand for will become little more than a joke come election time, save for a small percentage of hardliners and nationalists. Even if Soros is planning another Coup d'Etat in Ukraine, there is really little to base it off of, it has to be based on something. Frankly for a degrading Ukraine, issues like joining NATO, the dog's breakfast which Yuschenko created from Holodomor, or banning of Russian language will not be a matter of priority for most Ukrainians.

Hope that Russia has an ace up it's sleve come November, in the interest of both the Russian and Ukrainian people.

In other words, you hope, that Russia will support some pro-russian dude ( no need to search far) that will drag Ukraine to warm armful of your motherland. Might as well create another Lukashenko..

[Pareto]

And eventualy the NATO craze will fall and Yuschenko will be out of power and another Pro-Russian will be in. As for Georgia, they will be politically hurt for a bit, until shakadouche is out and someone else who is neutral will be in.

No chance for neutral leader in Georgia before Russian occupation is ended!

Anyway,Georgian people made a decision towards west and EU like other western Europians!
On NATO there may by progress if and when Russia stop behave like bulling neighbour!

[Pareto]

To be quite honest I couldn't care less for what Georgia does. Point is they are never getting Ossetia or Abkhazia back and I think some "politicians" in Georgia have a hard time understanding that. I think the US stopped caring about Georgia as well, Saaka is a failed project and an embarrasment. There is a good Russian proverb for this: "Knuckles aren't thrown after a fight". This is Georgia's situation, too many desires at once, too late.

Saakashvili won't be failed project and Georgia will be united with your help!
Many Russians starting to realize their goverment stupid policy regarding Georgia!
On "exo moskvi" site poll 80% said that Russia was aggressor in this war! of course mostly emigrant Russian participated in this poll,but still it was very impressive shift!

[PH961]

In other words, you hope, that Russia will support some pro-russian dude ( no need to search far) that will drag Ukraine to warm armful of your motherland. Might as well create another Lukashenko..
Isn't RussianLynxy a Ukrainian himself? Notice how most of the Ukrainians at least in this forum are pro-Russian.

Lukashenko is hardly a Russian puppet.

[PH961]

No chance for neutral leader in Georgia before Russian occupation is ended!
How can you call it an "occupation" if people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't want to be part of Georgia? Do you call the western military presence in Kosovo an "occupation" as well?



Anyway,Georgian people made a decision towards west and EU like other western Europians!
Like other western Europeans? Check the map. Georgia is not in western Europe.

[Pareto]

Medvedev, deal with your 10% decline economy and shrinking population, leave this issue to Nato and Georgia to decide!

[PH961]

Medvedev, deal with your 10% decline economy and shrinking population, leave this issue to Nato and Georgia to decide!
Are you one of those 1 million Georgian immigrants working and living in Russia? p-)

[Pareto]

How can you call it an "occupation" if people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't want to be part of Georgia? Do you call the western military presence in Kosovo an "occupation" as well?

And what about 350 tousends of Georgian who were ethnicly cleansed from this territorys?
Abxazians were 17% of population in 90th..

What's wrong with you people?

go brainwash Russian bidlo with this bool****, not others!

p.s. i never supported Kosovo indepedence,any way in was very differnt story there!

[PH961]

And what about 350 tousends of Georgian who were ethnicly cleansed from this territorys?

Tough luck.

Maybe you can make some kind of a deal of their return after Georgia recognizes the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

You really shouldn't have attacked Tshinvali last August. A big miscalculation from your part.

[Pareto]

Are you one of those 1 million Georgian immigrants working and living in Russia? p-)

No!! never been in Russia,exept sochi!

And what you're saying by that?

firstable, 1 milion is exeduration,and even it was so,what you're saying by that??
there are milion Russians in US and there are lot of them supporting Russia on blogs and forums!

made up some more credible arguments!

[PH961]

No!! never been in Russia,exept sochi!
Loosen up man. No need to yell so much.



And what you're saying by that?
Just wondered. You seem so interested about Russia that I was thinking if you live there.



firstable, 1 milion is exeduration,and even it was so,what you're saying by that??
For some reason Russia is a desired destination for many Georgians.

[sepheronx]

No!! never been in Russia,exept sochi!

And what you're saying by that?

firstable, 1 milion is exeduration,and even it was so,what you're saying by that??
there are milion Russians in US and there are lot of them supporting Russia on blogs and forums!

made up some more credible arguments!

So you take some quote or figures from some immigrants who went to Russia for a better life.......

Yeah, ok.

[AlexMartin2]

PH961, Pareto is just another delusional Georgia supporter, he is far away from reality.

Last week I had a vacation, and went to my home town. Spoke to several friends. I was very surprised when I heard that many of them plan to go to vacation to Abkhasia.
It looks like Abkhasians will get a lot of money from Russian tourists this summer.

Then I've imagined friendly Georgia. With ours and western investments in tourism, they could easily beat Crimea and Turkey as a preferred vacation place for millions of Russians (and many western tourists).
But they preferred to spend money on weapons...

[Pareto]

Tough luck.

Maybe you can make some kind of a deal of their return after Georgia recognizes the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

You really shouldn't have attacked Tshinvali last August. A big miscalculation from your part.

It was selfdefence, our villages were bombed by Russian suplied arms,the city was avacutied as they were prepared!
We had any moral right to attack,was it wise? probebly not!

Georgia will be reunited i'm so F### sure about that!

[PH961]

Spoke to several friends. I was very surprised when I heard that many of them plan to go to vacation to Abkhasia.
It looks like Abkhasians will get a lot of money from Russian tourists this summer.
That's good. It is better to help Abkhazian economy than already filled up tourist holes like Turkey and Spain.

[Snoshi]

That's good. It is better to help Abkhazian economy than already filled up tourist holes like Turkey and Spain.

Yeah.. Because going to some ****holes is better then going to Russian tourist resorts like Sochi..

This is the problem with today's Russia.. They have to make it "look" good for the other places then they country itself.. Look how much money is being invested into Abhazia, Ossetia and Chechnya... While normal Russians barly see anything of that kind.

[PH961]

It was selfdefence, our villages were bombed by Russian suplied arms,the city was avacutied as they were prepared!
We had any moral right to attack,was it wise? probebly not!
That is Saaka's version of the story. The OSCE has not confirmed any Russian or Ossetian bombing towards Georgian villages before Georgian attack to Tshinvali.

Of course Russians evacuated Tshinvali. Their intelligence had gathered enough information that a Georgian attack was very probable.



Georgia will be reunited i'm so F### sure about that!
How are you going to do that if the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't want to be part of Georgia and they have Russia's support? Your attack to Tshinvali a year ago made things even more clear. After you butchered Ossetian civilians last August there is zero chance that these people will voluntarily bend under Georgia's rule.

[sepheronx]

Yeah.. Because going to some ****holes is better then going to Russian tourist resorts like Sochi..

This is the problem with today's Russia.. They have to make it "look" good for the other places then they country itself.. Look how much money is being invested into Abhazia, Ossetia and Chechnya... While normal Russians barly see anything of that kind.

Yeah, that is why Russians are a bunch of bottom feeders and are living in garbage cans like Oscar the grouch. Right Snoshi?


That is Saaka's version of the story. The OSCE has not confirmed any Russian or Ossetian bombing towards Georgian villages before Georgian attack to Tshinvali.

Of course Russians evacuated Tshinvali. Their intelligence had gathered enough information that a Georgian attack was very probable.


How are you going to do that if the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't want to be part of Georgia and they have Russia's support? Your attack to Tshinvali a year ago made things even more clear. After you butchered Ossetian civilians last August there is zero chance that these people will voluntarily bend under Georgia's rule.
Sure helps having satellites in order to view enemy build up.

[Snoshi]

Yeah, that is why Russians are a bunch of bottom feeders and are living in garbage cans like Oscar the grouch. Right Snoshi?

My house that i have lived in Volgograd havent been modernised in 30-40 years.. Its litteraly falling apart.. And that is quite central Volgograd..

That is happening while Grozny is plenty of money.

[sepheronx]

My house that i have lived in Volgograd havent been modernised in 30-40 years.. Its litteraly falling apart.. And that is quite central Volgograd..

That is happening while Grozny is plenty of money.

Hmm.. How many years ago was this? Yes Snoshi, because all homes everywhere else are maintained yearly. I won't believe for a second of your statements. Yes, we all know you have lived in the worst conditions and we all know that it is all evil putins fault. Now are you happy?

[PH961]

Yeah.. Because going to some ****holes is better then going to Russian tourist resorts like Sochi..
That is up to Russian tourists to decide. Nobody is forcing them to go to Abkhazia. What I have seen from the pictures Abkhazia's nature looks fabulous.



This is the problem with today's Russia.. They have to make it "look" good for the other places then they country itself.. Look how much money is being invested into Abhazia, Ossetia and Chechnya... While normal Russians barly see anything of that kind.
You have a point there. I happen to agree that Russia has poured too much free money to Chechnya. They should learn to work and make their own living.

But don't compare state money going to Chechnya to Russian tourists going to Abkhazia. Completely two different things.

I believe that eventually Abkhazia and South Ossetia will be integrated to Russian Federation which means that investments there will be the same as investing to Russia.

[sepheronx]

That is up to Russian tourists to decide. Nobody is forcing them to go to Abkhazia. What I have seen from the pictures Abkhazia's nature looks fabulous.


You have a point there. I happen to agree that Russia has poured too much free money to Chechnya. They should learn to work and make their own living.

But don't compare state money going to Chechnya to Russian tourists going to Abkhazia. Completely two different things.

I believe that eventually Abkhazia and South Ossetia will be integrated to Russian Federation which means that investments there will be the same as investing to Russia.

Oh, if Grozny is getting so much money, then why not move there instead of living in Volgograd?

[Pareto]

That's good. It is better to help Abkhazian economy than already filled up tourist holes like Turkey and Spain.

How do you think westerners will get there?
And would they visit wiped out Georgian villages as exotic destination??

No inepdency wil be legimatised "achived" on ethnic cleasning!

Unly lunatic Rusians think their weaking pseudo imperia can force someone to do so..

Even Belorus said clearly, that their sitizens should enter this teritories only through Georgia and they have to follow Georgian low!

I mean look at Russian neighbors, all they are antgonistic to Russia!

Oh god,i forgot about Nikaraguah!

[User_Name]

Hmm.. How many years ago was this? Yes Snoshi, because all homes everywhere else are maintained yearly. I won't believe for a second of your statements. Yes, we all know you have lived in the worst conditions and we all know that it is all evil putins fault. Now are you happy?
You forget to add that he was discriminated all the time...:):):)

[Snoshi]

Oh, if Grozny is getting so much money, then why not move there instead of living in Volgograd?

Is this a joke right? I would never ever move close to place called Kavkaz in Russia... Do me favour and move to Grozny yourself.



You forget to add that he was discriminate all the time...
Never happened.. But its not like i was walking around with Kippah or something.. We were quite a secular family.

[sepheronx]

How do you think westerners will get there?
And would they visit wiped out Georgian villages as exotic destination??

No inepdency wil be legimatised "achived" on ethnic cleasning!

Unly lunatic Rusians think their weaking pseudo imperia can force someone to do so..

Even Belorus said clearly, that their sitizens should enter this teritories only through Georgia and they have to follow Georgian low!

I mean look at Russian neighbors, all they are antgonistic to Russia!

Oh god,i forgot about Nikaraguah!

Wow, OK buddy. Aside from your English, all I can make out is that you are pretty much just quoting what Shaka told you right? What else did he say? Did he mention that Russian's also throw children into an open fire, and sacrifice puppies to the sun god?


Is this a joke right? I would never ever move close to place called Kavkaz in Russia... Do me favour and move to Grozny yourself.



Never happened.. But its not like i was walking around with Kippah or something.. We were quite a secular family.

I don't know, you just seem to state that Volgograd gets nothing while Grozny gets everything. Well, if it is so tough (like you say it is) in Volgograd, then move?


You forget to add that he was discriminated all the time...:):):)

Oh yes, I forgot that. The evil Skin heads have chased down Snoshi every day and threatened his family, while the Mafia is rampant and telling he ows money to Victory, before they break his legs and his moms nose.

[User_Name]

Wow, OK buddy. Aside from your English, all I can make out is that you are pretty much just quoting what Shaka told you right? What else did he say? Did he mention that Russian's also throw children into an open fire, and sacrifice puppies to the sun god?
Do not forget the virgins...

[PH961]

Hmm.. How many years ago was this? Yes Snoshi, because all homes everywhere else are maintained yearly. I won't believe for a second of your statements. Yes, we all know you have lived in the worst conditions and we all know that it is all evil putins fault. Now are you happy?
I think Snoshi is right on this one.

Russian infrastructure needs major repairment and new investments. Most of Russia's residental building, the so called "khruschevskas" and "brezhnevskas", are built in 1960's and 1970's, and they have not been repaired and maintained much. Many of these building are literally in danger to collapse. Actually there was a news a few days ago that a residental building collapsed in southern Russia.

Russia/USSR missed two decades (1980's and 1990's) of investment to infrastructure because of financial troubles, and the rate of investment has not been sufficient in the 2000's either.

it will require tramendous effort to build enough new residental buildings and repair old ones in the coming years. Russia does not have too much time to do that because of the missed decades of investment.

[sepheronx]

I think Snoshi is right on this one.

Russian infrastructure needs major repairment and new investments. Most of Russia's residental building, the so called "khruschevskas" and "brezhnevskas", are built in 1960's and 1970's, and they have not been repaired and maintained much. Many of these building are literally in danger to collapse. Actually there was a news a few days ago that a residental building collapsed in southern Russia.

Russia/USSR missed two decades (1980's and 1990's) of investment to infrastructure because of financial troubles, and the rate of investment has not been sufficient in the 2000's either.

it will require tramendous effort to build new residental buildings and repair old ones. Russia does not have too much time to do that because of the missed decades of investment.

Send them money to Manitoba, where a lot of homes have not seen repairs since 1948.

Edit: Like I said, if it is so bad, move. If not so bad, but repairable, then do it yourself (or write a letter to the government). I know there are public programs for helping out in development of homes here in Alberta (from the community), because we are so low in work force and no construction company can get anything done without shoddy workmanship.

[User_Name]

I don't know, you just seem to state that Volgograd gets nothing while Grozny gets everything. Well, if it is so tough (like you say it is) in Volgograd, then move?
He has already moved to Israel, but it seems he miss something there, thats why he appears all the time in R related treads with his very bbbbaaaaddd experience about Ru.

[PH961]

Send them money to Manitoba, where a lot of homes have not seen repairs since 1948.
That is classic "whataboutism".

[Pareto]

That is Saaka's version of the story. The OSCE has not confirmed any Russian or Ossetian bombing towards Georgian villages before Georgian attack to Tshinvali.

It was not OSCE official position,only one officer said so!!

you know what?
let's wait for European commission to do their work.

and there are signals that it will be very tough one for Russians!

The fact is that Georgia never crosed internatinal borders, civilain casualties were not as big as Russia initially claimed(no they say 162 were killed including militias and iregulars )




How are you going to do that if the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't want to be part of Georgia and they have Russia's support? Your attack to Tshinvali a year ago made things even more clear. After you butchered Ossetian civilians last August there is zero chance that these people will voluntarily bend under Georgia's rule.


like Chechens wanted to entigrate in Russia after tens of thousends their civilians were killed under Russian grads (and not only)

[sepheronx]

That is classic "whataboutism".

Perfect example was the house my grandparents lived in (now my uncle lives there). The house was built in 1932, and still stands (not because it was worked on by the province/town, but by my Grandfather and his sons (dad, uncles). So really, if everything is so bad, then do the repair work yourself with the rest of the people in the condo's and or apartments. Start a work group or something. I don't know, just don't sit around and complain but do nothing.

[PH961]

It was not OSCE official position,only one officer said so!!
So can you provide a direct quote from OSCE that confirms Russians or Ossetians bombed Georgian villages before Georgia's attack?



like Chechens wanted to entigrate in Russia after tens of thousends their civilians were killed under Russian grads (and not only)
I don't claim to have enough knowledge about Chechnyans' opinions about being part of the Russian Federation, but the place has calmed a lot since 1999-2005.

[Pareto]

What else did he say? Did he mention that Russian's also throw children into an open fire, and sacrifice puppies to the sun god?.


Actually this kind allegation were made up by Russians!


Pensioners burned alive in a church and a baby stabbed to death - just some of the horrific stories from Georgia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043639/Pensioners-burned-alive-church-baby-stabbed-death--just-horrific-stories-Georgia.html#ixzz0MRcz1EQ0 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043639/Pensioners-burned-alive-church-baby-stabbed-death--just-horrific-stories-Georgia.html#ixzz0MRcz1EQ0)

[Pareto]

So can you provide a direct quote from OSCE that confirms Russians or Ossetians bombed Georgian villages before Georgia's attack?


I don't claim to have enough knowledge about Chechnyans' opinions about being part of the Russian Federation, but the place has calmed a lot since 1999-2005.

As about Osetians!

belive me SO would be calm too(if you can call situation calm in northen caucasus) if the Russians would give us some space!!

If Chechens had backing as Osetians had the situation would be much differnet!

[asch]

belive me SO would be calm too(if you can call situation calm in northen caucasus) if the Russians would give us some space!!
yea, dead calm, i believe.

[Sashko]

It was not OSCE official position,only one officer said so!!










Say what?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5114401.ece

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,578273,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,574812-2,00.html

http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/osce-report-fault-georgia-one-trivial-statement-more-from-eu-summit/


The fact is that Georgia never crosed internatinal borders, civilain casualties were not as big as Russia initially claimed(no they say 162 were killed including militias and iregulars )

162 are civilian casualties according to Russian sources. Ossetians claim 300, and those figures most likely include militias.

[Pareto]

Hey Sashko
As i said,it was not OSCE official position, this officer was fired soon after this biased testemony!

[PH961]

Hey Sashko
As i said,it was not OSCE official position, this officer was fired soon after this biased testemony!
You refused to answer this question in another thread so I ask it again:

Can you provide a direct quote from the OSCE that confirms that Russians or Ossetians shelled Georgian villages before Georgia launched it's attack on Tshinvali?

[Russianlynxy]

Saakashvili won't be failed project and Georgia will be united with your help!
Many Russians starting to realize their goverment stupid policy regarding Georgia!
On "exo moskvi" site poll 80% said that Russia was aggressor in this war! of course mostly emigrant Russian participated in this poll,but still it was very impressive shift!

LOL.... exo Moskvi is an opositionary leftist media network. Half of it's crew are immigrants who live in Chicago and New York. What else would you expect from a radio station that said Russian people would be better off if Russia was occupied? Uncredible source, I'm not surprised if you use something from Anna Politkovskaya or Novodvorskaya next time as a resource.

"Saakashvili won't be failed project and Georgia will be united with your help!" wishful thinking and reality are two different things.

[Sashko]

Hey Sashko
As i said,it was not OSCE official position, this officer was fired soon after this biased testemony!


Which officer? There are several people from different organization saying the same thing. Including British military personnel.

Name of this mysterious employee and sources please...

[PH961]

Which officer? There are several people from different organization saying the same thing. Including British military personnel.

Name of this mysterious employee and sources please...
He means Ryan Grist.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5114401.ece

"Grist, who resigned from the OSCE shortly afterwards, has told The New York Times it was Georgia that launched the first military strikes against Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital."

[Sashko]

He means Ryan Grist.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5114401.ece

"Grist, who resigned from the OSCE shortly afterwards, has told The New York Times it was Georgia that launched the first military strikes against Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital."

Ah ok, he "resigned" however, and was not fired. My guess is that he was pressured to quit over the fact that he talked with the press, rather than the content of what he said. He never refuted his statements.

This also still leaves Mr.Young in the equation.

[PH961]

Ah ok, he "resigned" however, and was not fired. My guess is that he was pressured to quit over the fact that he talked with the press, rather than the content of what he said. He never refuted his statements.

This also still leaves Mr.Young in the equation.
Yes, I believe Ryan Grist was pressured to resign for political reasons. His report from the Ossetian war was a little too honest for the OSCE's liking.

For this same reason the publishing EU report from the Ossetian war is being "delayed". Somebody had leaked information to Der Spiegel newspaper that the EU's report is overwhelmingly supportive to the Russian version of the events. This report has been ready to be published for a few months already, but the EU has delayed it's publishment because of political reasons. The United States and US-friendly nations and politicians inside the EU don't want this report to be published.

Here is some further info about the EU report of the war: http://euobserver.com/24/28414

[tommy00]

LOL.... exo Moskvi is an opositionary leftist media network. Half of it's crew are immigrants who live in Chicago and New York. What else would you expect from a radio station that said Russian people would be better off if Russia was occupied? Uncredible source, I'm not surprised if you use something from Anna Politkovskaya or Novodvorskaya next time as a resource.

What, only RTR, ORT and people like Leontiev and Prohanov are reliable sources for you....??
I like this attitue, in Russia only statemedia tells truth, but when in topics about ...Ukraine or Georgia, then of course its other way around....:)

Can you provide a direct quote from the OSCE that confirms that Russians or Ossetians shelled Georgian villages before Georgia launched it's attack on Tshinvali

If you'r to lazy or stupid to do a deeper look into this conflict, then read at least Wiki...
Regular shootings and exchange of mortarfire were intense allready in July, with tens of casulties on both sides. I would't call a 0808 even a start of a active war action, heavy mortarfire and dozens of casultis can't be a smallscale war, at least IMHO...

[PH961]

If you'r to lazy or stupid to do a deeper look into this conflict, then read at least Wiki...
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone you dimwit. It is not a reliable source especially in politically sensitive matters.

But I'm sure YOU can provide us a direct quote from the OSCE which confirms that Russians or Ossetians shelled Tskhinvali before Georgia launched it's attack.

The OSCE had it's observers in the region in "080808". I would find it strange if they didn't notice anything if there indeed was intensive shelling from the Ossetian side before the war started.

[tommy00]

But I'm sure YOU can provide us a direct quote from the OSCE which confirms that Russians or Ossetians shelled Tskhinvali before Georgia launched it's attack.

Aa, you asking tricky questions, aren't you, funny guy..."that Russians or Ossetians shelled Tskhinvali before Georgia launched it's attack."
Before Georgia launced his attack, Tshinvali was in the hands of Ossetians(and Russians),....so why would they shelled it...:roll:
No, they shelled Georgian positions and villeges,(and Georgians obviasly responded) and then, after Georgians taked control over city, then they shelled Tsinvali....

[GerLatvia!]

yeah wikipedia is actually a good source its foolish to say its bull****!

its clear thatgeorgia started the war, saakashvili sayd self but "both" sides exchanged fire days before here is a wikipedia qoute


"Starting with the night of 6–7 August there were continuous artillery fire exchanges between the two sides"

[serg123]

like Chechens wanted to entigrate in Russia after tens of thousends their civilians were killed under Russian grads (and not only)
It is interesting that inspite of war and refugies problem Chechnia is a chempion among Russian regions in population grouth according latest countrywide population counting.

[serg123]

I don't claim to have enough knowledge about Chechnyans' opinions about being part of the Russian Federation, but the place has calmed a lot since 1999-2005.
Vast majotity of Checnya population during referendum supported new Chechen constitution where Chechnya declared as a part of Russia.

[Russianlynxy]

What, only RTR, ORT and people like Leontiev and Prohanov are reliable sources for you....??


Not neccessarily. But certainly not immigrants from Russia either in asylum in other countries, or those taking advantage of the Jackson-Vanik amendment who have personal butt-hurt grudges against Russia. This type of information cannot possible be taken seriously, and it isn't.

nobody reads/listens to Echo Moskvi.

[Pareto]

Yes, I believe Ryan Grist was pressured to resign for political reasons. His report from the Ossetian war was a little too honest for the OSCE's liking.

For this same reason the publishing EU report from the Ossetian war is being "delayed". Somebody had leaked information to Der Spiegel newspaper that the EU's report is overwhelmingly supportive to the Russian version of the events. This report has been ready to be published for a few months already, but the EU has delayed it's publishment because of political reasons. The United States and US-friendly nations and politicians inside the EU don't want this report to be published.

Here is some further info about the EU report of the war: http://euobserver.com/24/28414


Supportive to the Russian?? :D

look what Tavliavin had to say about this gazprome financed "Spiegel" lies right after it was published!


Head of IIFFMCG, Ambassador Tagliavini on Der Spiegel's article on EU probe results in Georgia http://georgiandaily.com/templates/ja_teline/images/printButton.png (http://georgiandaily.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12170&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=129) http://georgiandaily.com/templates/ja_teline/images/emailButton.png (http://georgiandaily.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=12170&itemid=129) June 15, 2009 http://georgiandaily.com/images/stories/articles/politics/MFA%20Geo%20Seal.jpgComment of the Press and information Department on the article `Zerschemetterter Traum` (“smashed dream”) published in today’s edition of the German News Magazine `Der Spiegel`
Question: How would you assess the article "Zercschemettereter Traum" ("smashed dream") that was published in today's edition of the German News Magazine "Der Spiegel" regarding the findings of the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in Georgia?
Answer: Georgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs can not comment on this article, however notes that the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission has responded to the issue. Below please find the above comment:
The German News Magazine "Der Spiegel" in today's edition (25/2009) published a two page article under the heading "Zerschmetterter Traum" ("smashed dream") which reflects on the work of IIFFMCG in a largely speculative and unsubstantiated way. In this context I would like to state the following:
The Spiegel's article is not based on information provided by the Head of IIFFMCG, Ambassador Tagliavini, or any other authorized sources. On behalf of IIFFMCG there has been no interview, background briefing or any other way of communication in order to provide information for the article.
The article's contents on the findings of the Mission are entirely factious as regards the so-called majority views among Mission's members relating to the alleged responsibility for the outbreak of hostilities or the alleged violation by either side of the Geneva Convention on the Protection of Civilians.
The report which shall be presented to the EU Council of Ministers by 31 July 2009 comes under the sole and exclusive responsibility of Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini, and not under the responsibility of the Mission's experts or the majority of its experts. All experts' opinions are subject to the approval by the Head of Mission before being included in the Report, and not any of the contributions can be considered by itself as representing the Mission's findings.
Contrary to the allegations referred to in the article, there is not and has never been any reluctance or unwillingness on behalf of IIFFMCG to interview senior U.S. diplomats such as former Assistant Secretary for Europe Daniel Fried on America's role in the conflict. Assistant Secretary Daniel Fried was interviewed by Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini and her deputy former German Ambassador Uwe Schramm at the State Department in Washington on 14 May, together with other senior members of the U.S. administration such as Deputy Assistant Secretary Matt Bryza and others. U.S. Ambassador John Tefft had been spoken to already on several previous occasions.
The work of IIFFMCG is continuing. Until the process of collecting and evaluating of all relevant facts has been completed, no final conclusions will be drawn.
Heidi Tagliavini
Ambassador and Head of Mission
http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12170&Itemid=129

[tommy00]

But certainly not immigrants from Russia either in asylum in other countries, or those taking advantage of the Jackson-Vanik amendment who have personal butt-hurt grudges against Russia. This type of information cannot possible be taken seriously, and it isn't.

So, you'r saying that 90% of "Russia-Strong"-crew and their thougts can not be taken seriously.....;)

[asch]

you always can count on us who live in Russia.

[tommy00]

you always can count on us who live in Russia.

I will, i will, thanks...:)

[Atlantic Friend]

For this same reason the publishing EU report from the Ossetian war is being "delayed". Somebody had leaked information to Der Spiegel newspaper that the EU's report is overwhelmingly supportive to the Russian version of the events.

But how could it be, since the EU is a Fascist Imperialist entity?


I'm not. The EU talks about "human rights" only when it serves their own agenda. The so called "human rights" and "democracy" are today what "civilizing" was 100 years ago. The same fascist imperialist poop.


Oh, those devious EU Fascists...

[Mousepad]

My house that i have lived in Volgograd havent been modernised in 30-40 years.. Its litteraly falling apart.. And that is quite central Volgograd..

That is happening while Grozny is plenty of money.

You srsly need to refresh your info on Volgograd, they pimped it out quite cool. As for comparrison with Grozny, actually Grozny construction business don't have any headaches with licenses to build here, and permissions to demolish this. All was taken care of in 2 wars, so city looks brand new, because it is. A week ago i was in Novosibirsk, there are private village izbas rright in the center of city surrounded by glass and concrete, coz old coot was living here for eternity, and just lovez to grow his tomatoes and cucumbers, and you can do sh/t about it, methink real-estate sharks would't mind to MLRS them :) . I think AlexMartin can confirm it, it's around Central library IIRC.

[AlexMartin2]

You srsly need to refresh your info on Volgograd, they pimped it out quite cool. As for comparrison with Grozny, actually Grozny construction business don't have any headaches with licenses to build here, and permissions to demolish this. All was taken care of in 2 wars, so city looks brand new, because it is. A week ago i was in Novosibirsk, there are private village izbas rright in the center of city surrounded by glass and concrete, coz old coot was living here for eternity, and just lovez to grow his tomatoes and cucumbers, and you can do sh/t about it, methink real-estate sharks would't mind to MLRS them :) . I think AlexMartin can confirm it, it's around Central library IIRC.

Such wooden houses in the middle of modern buildings are very common in many cities, even in Moscow. People who live there refuses to resettle, even when they would have much more comfortable flats and a lot of money.

But I dont understand what this have to do with the topic? :) BTW Snoshi in my ignore list, so I don't bother to reply to all this nonsense. And I advise you to so the same.

[-Julik- 4.GdKp]

What's wrong with you people?

go brainwash Russian bidlo with this bool****, not others!



Your georgian bidlo is far more brainwashed.You tried to **** around with russia and got what you deserved-stop whining.


PH961, Pareto is just another delusional Georgia supporter, he is far away from reality.

Many of them today on the internet.

[Mousepad]

But I dont understand what this have to do with the topic? :) BTW Snoshi in my ignore list, so I don't bother to reply to all this nonsense. And I advise you to so the same.

Neah Snoshi is a latent "Russia Uber Strong!!1111" his trolling aside he is not from "We hate Putin but we love Russians" = "die the fcyk off already all of ya", but from the part "I won't stop b/tching untill Russia will build 6 CVNs, star-destroyer, and introduce Space-Marines" :)

[Sashko]

So, you'r saying that 90% of "Russia-Strong"-crew and their thougts can not be taken seriously.....;)


Are you implying that majority of Russian immigrants are Jewish asylum seekers that have a grudge against the homeland? :roll:

[Difool]

Are you implying that majority of Russian immigrants are Jewish asylum seekers that have a grudge against the homeland? :roll:
Btw I'm friend with a Russian jewish family from Sevastopol. They got asylum (Not exactly. It's some kind of contingent thing I never came to understand) in Germany.
They funny thing is that they don't miss a single service in the catholic church.
That's a bit off topic, so here we go: Every Russian I know still feels Russian no matter where he lives or how long he's been away from Russia.

[void]

Such wooden houses in the middle of modern buildings are very common in many cities, even in Moscow. People who live there refuses to resettle, even when they would have much more comfortable flats and a lot of money.

But I dont understand what this have to do with the topic? :) BTW Snoshi in my ignore list, so I don't bother to reply to all this nonsense. And I advise you to so the same.

Strangely enough this happens in China as well, of all places. There are plenty of pictures that I have seen of a derelict crappy house in the middle of brand new sky scrapers. You would think Chinese authorities wouldnt stand for that kind of crap, but you would be wrong. Weird.

[Atasas]

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090729/155668070.html
Russia hits back at Ukraine with diplomatic tit-for-tat

21:2629/07/2009

MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) - Moscow asked Ukraine on Wednesday to recall two senior diplomats from Russia, following a similar request from the Ukrainian side, the Foreign Ministry said.

The Ukrainian Ambassador to Russia, Kostiantyn Hryshchenko, was summoned to the Russian Foreign Ministry on Wednesday to discuss the issue with Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin.

"The Ukrainian ambassador was notified that Russia proposes that Ukraine consider recalling its consul general in St. Petersburg and one of the counselors at the Ukrainian embassy in Moscow," the ministry said in a statement.

Kiev earlier asked the Russian consul general in Odessa and the senior counselor at the Russian embassy to end their work in Ukraine. However, Ukraine's decision on the consul general was later "suspended". Mirroring the announcement, Russia's Foreign Ministry said its decision on the Ukrainian consul general was also suspended.

However, the ministry said in a statement: "Russia considers the diplomatic actions previously taken by Ukraine to be a move aimed against Russia, to the detriment of bilateral relations."

The ministry also said that before making the announcement, Russia had warned Ukraine that it would be responsible for any negative consequences of "unfriendly" actions.

The statement said that Russia "nevertheless reaffirms its desire to develop friendly and neighborly relations with Ukraine to serve the interests of our peoples."

http://en.beta.rian.ru/images/15522/97/155229723.jpg