Pro-Israel lobby probe linked to anti-Semitism

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

EXCLUSIVE: Pro-Israel lobby probe linked to anti-Semitism
Ex-informant points to FBI

By Bill Gertz Thursday, July 30, 2009

A long-running FBI espionage probe of the pro-Israel lobby in Washington appears to have been motivated in part by anti-Semitism, says a former Pentagon official who revealed this week he had cooperated for 10 weeks with federal agents conducting the probe.

Larry Franklin, a former Pentagon analyst who pleaded guilty in 2005 to revealing classified information to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), made the charge in an interview with The Washington Times, his first conversation with an American newspaper since his arrest five years ago.

Franklin said in that interview that he became disturbed by several apparently anti-Semitic remarks by his FBI handlers. His cooperation with the agency, which involved taping his conversations with officials of AIPAC and the Israeli Embassy, was first reported by the Times on Wednesday.
The things naughty folks say when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.p-)


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/30/pro-israel-lobby-probe-linked-to-anti-semitism/

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1248277936842&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Somehow I doubt this guy is a very reliable source...

[RoyB]

Like its hard to believe such thing occurred in such case..
Anyway, if they're guilty - they're guilty.

[Stormz_STA]

Like its hard to believe such thing occurred in such case..

What things? Antisemitism?

[Fat Lazy American]

"We have no way to respond to thirdhand characterizations of partial statements allegedly made by unnamed FBI employees several years ago," Mr. Miller said. "If Mr. Franklin would like to make a formal complaint about the conduct of any FBI employee, there is a process to do."

Hey, it's like BTS-FBI Edition.

Of course, I don't suspect these sorts of unfounded accusations are going to be on the front page of the BBC for two days running. Oh well.

[RoyB]

What things? Antisemitism?
I don't want to start this all argument all over again for who knows what time, but the attitude of members around here towards reports like this, as in like, "Look! they play the antisemitism 'card' as always..".

anti-Semitic remarks by his FBI handlers.

As I've said, if they're guilty than they're guilty.. I'm not arguing that.

[lebinoz]

i can't understand why israel spies on the u.s, allies don't normally do that. I thought they would share most of their secrets anyway if you look at how closely allied they are.

[Fat Lazy American]

i can't understand why israel spies on the u.s, allies don't normally do that. I thought they would share most of their secrets anyway if you look at how closely allied they are.

Are you huffing freon?

Allies spy on allies CONSTANTLY.

[Rilence]

i can't understand why israel spies on the u.s, allies don't normally do that. I thought they would share most of their secrets anyway if you look at how closely allied they are.
I believe it is common for allies to spy on one another. Then again, i have nothing to do with the intelligence community.

[lebinoz]

Are you huffing freon?

Allies spy on allies CONSTANTLY.

So are there u.s agents in israel gathering secret information on israel too? I would imagine the israelis would lose the plot if that was found out.

[Fat Lazy American]

So are there u.s agents in israel gathering secret information on israel too? I would imagine the israelis would lose the plot if that was found out.

Yes. There are American agents in Israel gathering secret information there. Everyone knows this. Welcome to Planet Earth. No plot has been lost by anyone.

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/nuke.html

Here, some info on some pretty intensive spying on Israel by the U.S. throughout the '60s, '70s and '80s, while we were "close" allies. And obviously the U.S. is still monitoring Israel's nuclear program as best it can as well as other elements of Israel's security apparatus.

And yes, the U.S. still has intelligence assets on the ground in Israel.

And yes, our spy sats still fly over Israel and monitor it.

And yes, we still intercept electronic communications between Israeli officials.

(The same is true with Britain, France and all of our other allies.)

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Are you huffing freon?

Allies spy on allies CONSTANTLY.

Most certainly true.

MI6 thoroughly infiltrated the OSS during World War 2 for example.

[gaijinsamurai]

^ This is common knowledge. In fact, the only countries the US has agreed not to spy on (with reciprocal promises from those countries' governments in return) are the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.


I wouldn't be surprised at all if some individual FBI agents made anti-Semitic remarks, but this is kinda like the equivilant of Marion Barry crying "racism!" after he's caught with a crack pipe.

[Fat Lazy American]

^ This is common knowledge. In fact, the only countries the US has agreed not to spy on (with reciprocal promises from those countries' governments in return) are the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I'd only count on UKUSA really mattering as far as SIGINT goes, though. I guarantee you MI6 still has assets in the U.S. and the CIA still has assets in Britain. And I doubt the NRO shares everything with the Brits freely.

(Frankly, even some SIGINT is probably done independently.)

[sinophile]

As I recall the case against these AIPAC employees was dropped.

If a case could have been made it would have been.

End of story, move on.

[JJC]

I know for a fact that there is a lot of paranoia in D.C. when it comes to bureaucrats with Jewish backgrounds or anyone who has friendly ties with people associated with Israel. I have been hearing stories for past two years; a lot of it is in the State Department. So I wouldn't be surprised if FBI did ask questions like
'How can an Irish Catholic from the Bronx get mixed up with all these ...,' and I finished the sentence for him: 'Jews?' And I proceeded to tell him that Christ and all the Apostles and even his mom were Jewish," Franklin said in the interview. I'm sure Franklin's assignments in Israel, his relationships with Israeli officials, his contacts in D.C. with AIPAC and his religious background did play a role in how the FBI judged him.

[Yoni-R]

^ This is common knowledge. In fact, the only countries the US has agreed not to spy on (with reciprocal promises from those countries' governments in return) are the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.


and i wouldnt be suprised if this isnt honoured to the letter of the law.

[Yoni-R]

i can't understand why israel spies on the u.s, allies don't normally do that. I thought they would share most of their secrets anyway if you look at how closely allied they are.

so you think there arnt any french or saudi spies in lebanon? no matter how close an ally, countries are always spieing on eachother.

[cltknight]

so you think there arnt any french or saudi spies in lebanon? no matter how close an ally, countries are always spieing on eachother.

France and SA don't give Lebanon over 2 billion dollars of annual aid plus billions more in loan guarantees, the US does to Israel, in addition of all the heat the US takes because of its unconditional support of Israel. so i think it does not make sense. Larry Franklin should be put with Pollard in the same prison cell so they can enjoy each others company.

[FalseFlag]

It is strange that Israel is so aggressive in its espionage against the US given that the US bankrolls its existence.

The Israelis have a HUGE stake in the US. If they lost the diplomatic and financial support of the US, things could go very bad for them.

[RoyB]

France and SA don't give Lebanon over 2 billion dollars of annual aid plus billions more in loan guarantees, the US does to Israel, in addition of all the heat the US takes because of its unconditional support of Israel. so i think it does not make sense. Larry Franklin should be put with Pollard in the same prison cell so they can enjoy each others company.
Larry Franklin played both sides, so... no.
Allies spy on each other.. even the saint - USA. and that's a fact.

[juliannicholas]

And the money that supposedly bankrolls Israel goes on purchases to US companies meaning US jobs

[cltknight]

And the money that supposedly bankrolls Israel goes on purchases to US companies meaning US jobs

its not " supposedly" it's a proven fact. Its US tax payers money so it should be spent on US jobs, Or maybe you think Israel should use it to go buy weapons from China maybe?

[RoyB]

its not " supposedly" it's a proven fact. Its US tax payers money so it should be spent on US jobs, Or maybe you think Israel should use it to go buy weapons from China maybe?
Israel can't go buy weapons from China with US money.
You're talking like the US aid money is running the country.. its not.

[cltknight]

Israel can't go buy weapons from China with US money.
You're talking like the US aid money is running the country.. its not.

First, i was only answering juliannicholas who made it look like Israel is doing the US a favor by accepting the aid. Second, i do know that the US aid does not run the country, but politically Israel benefits greatly from the US unconditional support. Just trying to call it for what it is. On the other hand, i should mention that the US does benefit greatly from Israeli intelligence expertise.

[sinophile]

its not " supposedly" it's a proven fact. Its US tax payers money so it should be spent on US jobs, Or maybe you think Israel should use it to go buy weapons from China maybe?

This has come up in a previous thread. Here is what you need to know.

US dollars that go to Israel for weapons development and purchases are spent and reside primarily in the US. They've led to massive cross-investment between US and Israeli companies. Hundreds of Israeli and US companies of real size and substance have operations, employees and ventures in the two countries there is almost no border between Silicon Valley and Tel Aviv. Technology, defense, healthcare, agriculture, energy, drugs... massive cross-investment.

In short, the US has bought - on the cheap - a second silicon valley with its Israel relationship. Its created real jobs, wealth and security for the US. If Israel had this relationship with China it would propel China into developed nation status in half the time of their existing current innovative-unfriendly business culture.

By contrast US investment in Egypt creates almost (I said almost) nothing by comparison.

Some gratitude is probably in order.

[AZZenny]

The real 'pro-Israel lobby' that pushes for the 2-plus Billion in military aid every year is also known by another, equally sinister name: The Military Industrial Complex. Nearly all that money must remain as dollars -- not converted to shekels -- and must be spent on U.S. weapons and military hardware -- its not even allowed to go for 'soft' military stuff like training and support.

You might say the US gov't is laundering taxpayer money through Israel to fund domestic US military programs. But actually, when you tally up the US's lifetime financial support for Israel, it doesn't even come close to one helping to AIG.

And anyone who thinks that excuses US spying on Israel or means Israel should not spy on the US is just plain ill-informed. If anything, it gives even more reason for both to do so.

But back to the OP: The FBI and CIA have both long been reported to harbor substantial anti-Semitic as well as anti-Israel sentiment, and since those feelings are still pretty widespread (even if presented with more sophistication than in the past) why would that be a surprise?

[cltknight]

This has come up in a previous thread. Here is what you need to know.

US dollars that go to Israel for weapons development and purchases are spent and reside primarily in the US. They've led to massive cross-investment between US and Israeli companies. Hundreds of Israeli and US companies of real size and substance have operations, employees and ventures in the two countries there is almost no border between Silicon Valley and Tel Aviv. Technology, defense, healthcare, agriculture, energy, drugs... massive cross-investment.

In short, the US has bought - on the cheap - a second silicon valley with its Israel relationship. Its created real jobs, wealth and security for the US. If Israel had this relationship with China it would propel China into developed nation status in half the time of their existing current innovative-unfriendly business culture.

By contrast US investment in Egypt creates almost (I said almost) nothing by comparison.

Some gratitude is probably in order.

So let's recapitulate , so according to you the US should be grateful to Israel for accepting over two billion dollars of military aid and billions of loans guarantees :) In other words, the US should say thank you to Israel :) WAW
Last time i checked the USA was a super power before even the existence of Israel, and for your information, the US does not need Israel, its the other way around my friend, and a little appreciation would be greatly appreciated.

NB: I did not even talk about the unconditional support of the US to Israel in the international Arena, maybe China can provide the same?

[Peanut]

So let's recapitulate , so according to you the US should be grateful to Israel for accepting over two billion dollars of military aid and billions of loans guarantees :) In other words, the US should say thank you to Israel :) WAW
Last time i checked the USA was a super power before even the existence of Israel, and for your information, the US does not need Israel, its the other way around my friend, and a little appreciation would be greatly appreciated.

NB: I did not even talk about the unconditional support of the US to Israel in the international Arena, maybe China can provide the same?


Israel is doing a good job of barking at Iran for us.:hug:

[RoyB]

So let's recapitulate , so according to you the US should be grateful to Israel for accepting over two billion dollars of military aid and billions of loans guarantees :) In other words, the US should say thank you to Israel :) WAW
Last time i checked the USA was a super power before even the existence of Israel, and for your information, the US does not need Israel, its the other way around my friend, and a little appreciation would be greatly appreciated.

NB: I did not even talk about the unconditional support of the US to Israel in the international Arena, maybe China can provide the same?
So I guess the US government is just giving away billions because of it being nice..
Both countries are giving and taking, and that sums it up.

[Eye]

So I guess the US government is just giving away billions because of it being nice..
Both countries are giving and taking, and that sums it up.
I think that over representation of people of Jewish origin in US Congress, White Hause and in some other places could be helpful too.

[RoyB]

I think that over representation of people of Jewish origin in US Congress, White Hause and in some other places could be helpful too.
The Jewish lobby doesn't control the actions of the numerous US governments that has been in the White House ever since the 1st cent got to Israel.
The US wouldn't have spent billions on foreign aid, without getting something back. if the aid is not cut, than its a sign that the US thinks its necessary.
There a lot more powerful lobbies in the US, and most of them aren't really Israel friendly.. but still, the aid keeps coming.
Summing it up, Israel isn't the only country that receives billions each year, so there's something for America in it too.

[cltknight]

The Jewish lobby doesn't control the actions of the numerous US governments that has been in the White House ever since the 1st cent got to Israel.
The US wouldn't have spent billions on foreign aid, without getting something back. if the aid is not cut, than its a sign that the US thinks its necessary.
There a lot more powerful lobbies in the US, and most of them aren't really Israel friendly.. but still, the aid keeps coming.
Summing it up, Israel isn't the only country that receives billions each year, so there's something for America in it too.

Israel use to be a strategic asset during the cold war but it had lost that status since then. The only thing that Israel can offer to the US is a full cooperation in the intelligence arena, and that goes both ways, other than that Its just the commitment of the US to protect Israel strong. So please dont make it look like the US has to be grateful to Israel for accepting the US support.

[Atlantic Friend]

"It was all antisemitism" is a rather grave accusation...

[RoyB]

Israel use to be a strategic asset during the cold war but it had lost that status since then. The only thing that Israel can offer to the US is a full cooperation in the intelligence arena, and that goes both ways, other than that Its just the commitment of the US to protect Israel strong. So please dont make it look like the US has to be grateful to Israel for accepting the US support.
Quit with your American ego and get reasonable.
How many years went by ever since the Cold War came to an end? a lot.
Israel has to offer jobs, intelligence, technology, and overall almost full cooperation. and so far it looks like the US finds this deal worthy.

"It was all antisemitism" is a rather grave accusation...
He didn't said that.

[sinophile]

So let's recapitulate , so according to you the US should be grateful to Israel for accepting over two billion dollars of military aid and billions of loans guarantees :) In other words, the US should say thank you to Israel :) WAW
Last time i checked the USA was a super power before even the existence of Israel, and for your information, the US does not need Israel, its the other way around my friend, and a little appreciation would be greatly appreciated.

NB: I did not even talk about the unconditional support of the US to Israel in the international Arena, maybe China can provide the same?

No. The US should look at its military aid and loan guarantees as an investment that returns huge returns in jobs, tax revenue and technology. The return is not as good as propping up Nigeria, but better than the return on aid to Egypt. Its not a one-sided trade.

[Fat Lazy American]

I think that over representation of people of Jewish origin in US Congress, White Hause and in some other places could be helpful too.

Yeah, but have you noticed the over-representation of Jews in dentistry? Clearly a Zionist plot to control Americans' teeth.

Never mind the over-representation of Jews among American Olympic swimmers. We all know what that means.

[Octavariable]

you forgot the over-representation of Jews in the Nobel prize laureates, clearly a manipulated award..

[Atlantic Friend]

He didn't said that.

True. He said
that [anti-Semitism] dimension was part of this investigation and may have been an initial incitement of this investigation"

Which is a grave accusation I think - the FBI doesn't strike me as initating investigations out of religious bias.

[Eye]

you forgot the over-representation of Jews in the Nobel prize laureates, clearly a manipulated award..

I don't think many Nobel Prizes go to Israel, unless you mean Americans of Jewish origin.

[OrangeWolf]

I don't think many Nobel Prizes go to Israel, unless you mean Americans of Jewish origin.

Eight of them, which is impressive enough for a country with a small population and becoming a modern state much more recent than most other nobel winning countries. It is not just American Jewish who have won a lot but Jewish in general.

If we compare friendly relationship, intelligence, innovations and jobs which aid should be whined about more, the aid going to Israel or the hundreds of millions going to Egypt :|. It's nice Mubarak is torturing his way to keep the Muslim Brotherhood out of power, but other than that how many innovations has Egypt brought to the USA since the enormous US aid heh?

[Zeev]

I'll start to think that it iz impossible to see even one day without israel at the center of the attention. p-)

[Zeev]

I think that over representation of people of Jewish origin in US Congress, White Hause and in some other places could be helpful too.

Even if its the truth, they certainly didn't won their seats at the lotery.:)

Maybe the jews in the US - and in a lot of other parts of the world - are people that work hard, because they have the motivation to be the best so they'll maybe also serve their people later.

You too, you can be as good as a jew if you work hard, so don't be jewlous. p-)

[RoyB]

Even if its the truth, they certainly didn't won their seats at the lotery.:)

Maybe the jews in the US - and in a lot of other parts of the world - are people that work hard, because they have the motivation to be the best so they'll maybe also serve their people later.

You too, you can be as good as a jew if you work hard, so don't be jewlous. p-)
It doesn't matter if they fought their way up.. if there are Jews there than its wrong. and its also racist that there seem to be a lot of educated Jews in the upper stores.



:roll:

[Elemental666]

I don't think many Nobel Prizes go to Israel, unless you mean Americans of Jewish origin.

Don't think then.






Robert Aumann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann), Germany, Economics, 2005
Aaron Ciechanover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Ciechanover), Chemistry, 2004
Avram Hershko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avram_Hershko), Hungary, Chemistry, 2004
Daniel Kahneman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman), Economics, 2002
Yitzhak Rabin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin), Peace, 1994
Shimon Peres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres), (then Poland, now Belarus), Peace, 1994
Menachem Begin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin), (then Russia, now Belarus), Peace, 1978
Shmuel Yosef Agnon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuel_Yosef_Agnon), (then Austria-Hungary, now Ukraine), Literature, 1966



Wiki etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country).

[Eye]

You too, you can be as good as a jew if you work hard, so don't be jewlous. p-)

When Louis XII asked his marshal what he needed to conducting the war, the answer was "Three things - money, money and yet more money". The same is with politics. I'm sure you know about it. Not hard labour, but money.

[OrangeWolf]

When Louis XII asked his marshal what he needed to conducting the war, the answer was "Three things - money, money and yet more money". The same is with politics. I'm sure you know about it. Not hard labour, but money.

Care explain how they build a big city like Tel Aviv from scratch with just money and no hard labor?

[RoyB]

When Louis XII asked his marshal what he needed to conducting the war, the answer was "Three things - money, money and yet more money". The same is with politics. I'm sure you know about it. Not hard labour, but money.
Quit with the stereotypes.. not all Jews have a sack of gold coins under their shirts, and not all of them bribed their way up.
Even if some do, somewhere down the road some Jew had to make the money which is now used to get his grandson up to the high positions, right?

[GiladS]

I think that over representation of people of Jewish origin in US Congress, White Hause and in some other places could be helpful too.

Yeah, they should wear some sort of defining symbol so we can tell them apart from other people... then maybe make them live together in specially defined areas... and there are so many other ideas to follow. :roll:

[medo]

You too, you can be as good as a jew if you work hard, so don't be jewlous. p-)I work hard, but I'm still nowhere. What could be wrong?p-)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I really do believe that the accusation of anti-Semitism against the State Dept and the FBI are completely unfounded and is nothing more than guilt and pettiness the same emotions of a child caught stealing.

[Zarak]

I really do believe that the accusation of anti-Semitism against the State Dept and the FBI are completely unfounded and is nothing more than guilt and pettiness the same emotions of a child caught stealing.

You're clearly just an anti-Semite. :p

[RoyB]

You're clearly just an anti-Semite. :p
Its funny how people claim that if they will do something they will immediately be labeled as anti-Semites, but actually it never really happens.
I don't remember seeing any one of the Israeli/Jewish members here calling someone an anti-Semite, yet its still used as a bashing tool for a lot of people here.

[Zeev]

When Louis XII asked his marshal what he needed to conducting the war, the answer was "Three things - money, money and yet more money". The same is with politics. I'm sure you know about it. Not hard labour, but money.

Ok how did they get the money? by thieves? lootings? they take it by violence to poor christians?

If its not by "hard labour" you're suggesting that it was by non legal ways, so you're also suggesting that when jews succeed, it is because of criminal ways?

You are getting very borderline.

[Hollis]

Its funny how people claim that if they will do something they will immediately be labeled as anti-Semites, but actually it never really happens.
I don't remember seeing any one of the Israeli/Jewish members here calling someone an anti-Semite, yet its still used as a bashing tool for a lot of people here.

I haven't seen that done either. A word of caution, any one playing the antisemite card, one way or the other will earn the appropriate reward. Just like playing the nazi card. Keep it civil, and keep the bigotry out (one way or the other).

[Eye]

so you're also suggesting that when jews succeed, it is because of criminal ways?


I don't know why you think so.
I just suggest that hard labour isn't the way to earn really big money. The way to it is taxation, lending money at interest, speculation etc. Something like that (http://www.polishmarket.com.pl/document/:19303,How+thinking+became+speculating.html) . Legal, but not honest.