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xav
08-03-2009, 06:54 PM
Catastrophic shortfalls threaten economic recovery, says world's top energy economist

The world is heading for a catastrophic energy crunch that could cripple a global economic recovery because most of the major oil fields in the world have passed their peak production, a leading energy economist has warned.

Higher oil prices brought on by a rapid increase in demand and a stagnation, or even decline, in supply could blow any recovery off course, said Dr Fatih Birol, the chief economist at the respected International Energy Agency (IEA) in Paris, which is charged with the task of assessing future energy supplies by OECD countries.

In an interview with The Independent, Dr Birol said that the public and many governments appeared to be oblivious to the fact that the oil on which modern civilisation depends is running out far faster than previously predicted and that global production is likely to peak in about 10 years – at least a decade earlier than most governments had estimated.

But the first detailed assessment of more than 800 oil fields in the world, covering three quarters of global reserves, has found that most of the biggest fields have already peaked and that the rate of decline in oil production is now running at nearly twice the pace as calculated just two years ago. On top of this, there is a problem of chronic under-investment by oil-producing countries, a feature that is set to result in an "oil crunch" within the next five years which will jeopardise any hope of a recovery from the present global economic recession, he said.

In a stark warning to Britain and the other Western powers, Dr Birol said that the market power of the very few oil-producing countries that hold substantial reserves of oil – mostly in the Middle East – would increase rapidly as the oil crisis begins to grip after 2010.

"One day we will run out of oil, it is not today or tomorrow, but one day we will run out of oil and we have to leave oil before oil leaves us, and we have to prepare ourselves for that day," Dr Birol said. "The earlier we start, the better, because all of our economic and social system is based on oil, so to change from that will take a lot of time and a lot of money and we should take this issue very seriously," he said.

"The market power of the very few oil-producing countries, mainly in the Middle East, will increase very quickly. They already have about 40 per cent share of the oil market and this will increase much more strongly in the future," he said.

There is now a real risk of a crunch in the oil supply after next year when demand picks up because not enough is being done to build up new supplies of oil to compensate for the rapid decline in existing fields.

The IEA estimates that the decline in oil production in existing fields is now running at 6.7 per cent a year compared to the 3.7 per cent decline it had estimated in 2007, which it now acknowledges to be wrong.

"If we see a tightness of the markets, people in the street will see it in terms of higher prices, much higher than we see now. It will have an impact on the economy, definitely, especially if we see this tightness in the markets in the next few years," Dr Birol said.

"It will be especially important because the global economy will still be very fragile, very vulnerable. Many people think there will be a recovery in a few years' time but it will be a slow recovery and a fragile recovery and we will have the risk that the recovery will be strangled with higher oil prices," he told The Independent.

In its first-ever assessment of the world's major oil fields, the IEA concluded that the global energy system was at a crossroads and that consumption of oil was "patently unsustainable", with expected demand far outstripping supply.

Oil production has already peaked in non-Opec countries and the era of cheap oil has come to an end, it warned.

In most fields, oil production has now peaked, which means that other sources of supply have to be found to meet existing demand.

Even if demand remained steady, the world would have to find the equivalent of four Saudi Arabias to maintain production, and six Saudi Arabias if it is to keep up with the expected increase in demand between now and 2030, Dr Birol said.

"It's a big challenge in terms of the geology, in terms of the investment and in terms of the geopolitics. So this is a big risk and it's mainly because of the rates of the declining oil fields," he said.

"Many governments now are more and more aware that at least the day of cheap and easy oil is over... [however] I'm not very optimistic about governments being aware of the difficulties we may face in the oil supply," he said.

Environmentalists fear that as supplies of conventional oil run out, governments will be forced to exploit even dirtier alternatives, such as the massive reserves of tar sands in Alberta, Canada, which would be immensely damaging to the environment because of the amount of energy needed to recover a barrel of tar-sand oil compared to the energy needed to collect the same amount of crude oil.

"Just because oil is running out faster than we have collectively assumed, does not mean the pressure is off on climate change," said Jeremy Leggett, a former oil-industry consultant and now a green entrepreneur with Solar Century.

"Shell and others want to turn to tar, and extract oil from coal. But these are very carbon-intensive processes, and will deepen the climate problem," Dr Leggett said.

"What we need to do is accelerate the mobilisation of renewables, energy efficiency and alternative transport.

"We have to do this for global warming reasons anyway, but the imminent energy crisis redoubles the imperative," he said.

Oil: An unclear future

*Why is oil so important as an energy source?

Crude oil has been critical for economic development and the smooth functioning of almost every aspect of society. Agriculture and food production is heavily dependent on oil for fuel and fertilisers. In the US, for instance, it takes the direct and indirect use of about six barrels of oil to raise one beef steer. It is the basis of most transport systems. Oil is also crucial to the drugs and chemicals industries and is a strategic asset for the military.

*How are oil reserves estimated?

The amount of oil recoverable is always going to be an assessment subject to the vagaries of economics – which determines the price of the oil and whether it is worth the costs of pumping it out –and technology, which determines how easy it is to discover and recover. Probable reserves have a better than 50 per cent chance of getting oil out. Possible reserves have less than 50 per cent chance.

*Why is there such disagreement over oil reserves?

All numbers tend to be informed estimates. Different experts make different assumptions so it is under- standable that they can come to different conclusions. Some countries see the size of their oilfields as a national security issue and do not want to provide accurate information. Another problem concerns how fast oil production is declining in fields that are past their peak production. The rate of decline can vary from field to field and this affects calculations on the size of the reserves. A further factor is the expected size of future demand for oil.

*What is "peak oil" and when will it be reached?

This is the point when the maximum rate at which oil is extracted reaches a peak because of technical and geological constraints, with global production going into decline from then on. The UK Government, along with many other governments, has believed that peak oil will not occur until well into the 21st Century, at least not until after 2030. The International Energy Agency believes peak oil will come perhaps by 2020. But it also believes that we are heading for an even earlier "oil crunch" because demand after 2010 is likely to exceed dwindling supplies.

*With global warming, why should we be worried about peak oil?

There are large reserves of non-conventional oil, such as the tar sands of Canada. But this oil is dirty and will produce vast amounts of carbon dioxide which will make a nonsense of any climate change agreement. Another problem concerns how fast oil production is declining in fields that are past their peak production. The rate of decline can vary from field to field and this affects calculations on the size of the reserves. If we are not adequately prepared for peak oil, global warming could become far worse than expected.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/warning-oil-supplies-are-running-out-fast-1766585.html

xav
08-03-2009, 06:58 PM
Environmentalists fear that as supplies of conventional oil run out, governments will be forced to exploit even dirtier alternatives, such as the massive reserves of tar sands in Alberta, Canada, which would be immensely damaging to the environment because of the amount of energy needed to recover a barrel of tar-sand oil compared to the energy needed to collect the same amount of crude oil.

Well i guess this is exactly what'll happen.
Isn't that sand in Alberta one of the largest reserve ever discovered? (except it cost too much to extract the oil from it... for now...)

2495
08-03-2009, 07:11 PM
Peak oil? don't make me laugh. My family been involved in oil exploration and drilling for over 90 years in one way or another, and peak oil is a sham to make us all cough up more money for less produce.

Goes great with the climate change hysterics mob though.

Macs.
08-03-2009, 07:17 PM
I don't see any real point in this.

There never has been a REAL shortage of oil in modern history. For the largest part it simply has been a man-made shortage to demand higher prices.

"One day we will run out of oil" - What a nice, nothing-saying statement.

2495
08-03-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't see any real point in this.

There never has been a REAL shortage of oil in modern history. For the largest part it simply has been a man-made shortage to demand higher prices.

"One day we will run out of oil" - What a nice, nothing-saying statement.

Its a bit like using 'Hope' and 'Change' as a political slogan - whats the point in such open, meaningless slogans?

Peak oil? don't make me laugh.

Universal_Soldier
08-03-2009, 08:05 PM
"scientists" say this every year...."oh oil reserves is about to be depleted"....I guess they need more money for exploration.Similar to climate change maniacs. " The ice will melt in the next 2 week and we 'll all drown".

Mordoror
08-03-2009, 09:09 PM
lol
well guys

continue to believe in eternal oil

although it will not be shortage on short term, the price will certainly skyrocket as easy field will go less productive (which is the case for some) and that difficult drill fields will have to be open
we may no see shortage but we will certainly see barrels at 150-200+ $ (was already seen one or two years ago)
and that will impact the whole economy from crop harvesting to high technology equipment production
the earlier some improvment are made to supply energies the better
nuclear energy, dams or any kind of alternative energy willnot replace oil but will reduce the impact of the reduction of its availability

bono
08-03-2009, 11:22 PM
Investment funds sucking the little guy dry for his last penny are behind this peak oil scam.


Peak oil? don't make me laugh. My family been involved in oil exploration and drilling for over 90 years in one way or another, and peak oil is a sham to make us all cough up more money for less produce.

Goes great with the climate change hysterics mob though.

socom6
08-03-2009, 11:22 PM
Smell the stench of bull **** on this one.

bono
08-03-2009, 11:26 PM
Oil at $150-200 per barrel on long term basis is not a commercial product anymore, its a collector's item. World will have moved on much before to a non-oil technologies such as Hydrogen. Believers in peak oil hoaxes don't know that fuel cell technology is developing extremely fast, algae based biofuels manufacturing facilities are already coming online.


lol
well guys

continue to believe in eternal oil

although it will not be shortage on short term, the price will certainly skyrocket as easy field will go less productive (which is the case for some) and that difficult drill fields will have to be open
we may no see shortage but we will certainly see barrels at 150-200+ $ (was already seen one or two years ago)
and that will impact the whole economy from crop harvesting to high technology equipment production
the earlier some improvment are made to supply energies the better
nuclear energy, dams or any kind of alternative energy willnot replace oil but will reduce the impact of the reduction of its availability

Red Bar0n
08-03-2009, 11:40 PM
I am sorry but isn't there a lot of oil in the Arctic? I am pretty sure someone said there's like 25 % of world's natural resources in there and i bet that's not it, there are plenty of places out there where oil wasn't discovered yet.

2Sheds_Jackson
08-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Oil speculators never tire of articles like this. Here we are, with hundreds of supertankers sitting at anchor, completely full of oil and simply being used for storage because all the storage facilities on dry land are already full - and we're supposed to believe we're out of oil. It's a great example of a manufactured reality, with many people laughing all the way to the bank.

MaverickCowboy
08-04-2009, 01:14 AM
Manbearpig.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/kissfan1267/ManBearPig.png

Pareto
08-04-2009, 03:11 AM
BS!

another gazprom financed expert trying to save Russian economy :D

Switek
08-04-2009, 03:30 AM
Warning: Oil supplies are running out fast

Good news! Our dependence on oil companies and OPEC lobby will decrease making a real chance for real and efficient development of alternative energy sources.

HellToupee
08-04-2009, 05:59 AM
I don't see any real point in this.

There never has been a REAL shortage of oil in modern history. For the largest part it simply has been a man-made shortage to demand higher prices.

"One day we will run out of oil" - What a nice, nothing-saying statement.

Because there has never been a shortage in the past their never will be in the future? Thats some sound logic there...

NavyTimes
08-04-2009, 06:22 AM
Much aggro, but not one solid argument against the article is found here.

Do some reading on the size of oilfield discoveries the last 15 years. Though some new deposits are still found, most are completely marginal compared to the fields that were found 30-50 years ago. This is after that masses of new technology has been added to the search process.

We are not seeing the end of oil anytime soon. The thing we are coming to the end of in a very short while is Cheap Oil.

seraosha
08-04-2009, 11:05 AM
I work in the petrochemical services field, and while the core concept of "peak oil" is not wrong, it is greatly hyped all out of proportion.

Yes, many of the easiest to get to sweet crude sites are producing at full capacity, and yes oil is a finite resource, but the technology we develop in the same building I'm typing this from are taking old and under producing wells and getting them flowing again, in an environmental way I might add, using replenishable resources, in nonpolluting ways.

Are we as a species too dependent on oil? Yes.
Will it last forever? No.
Should we be looking at other energy resources? Yes.

But don't buy into the hysteria, the US alone has enough oil reserves for centuries. link (http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/The_U.S._s_Untapped_Bounty_080630.html)

Mordoror
08-04-2009, 11:14 AM
well you are pointing an interesting thing seraosha

yes once closed drill could be reopened due to technologicla process upgrade
so previously closed pits (closed when at 30 to 50 % empty) could offer another 50%+ reserve on several steps as technology improves

however ultimately they will reach 0% oil content

i agree that there some hysterical whining about oil peak but given that the oil lobby on another hand is slowering as much as possible alternative energy development (due to the big money in balance) is it not a kind of fair game to be alarmist to launch the sooner possible some alternative energy development in order to be ready when oil will become none affordable ?

Eztyga
08-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Good. All the hajis can go back to riding camels and cutting each others heads off over great big inland beaches...

2Sheds_Jackson
08-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Much aggro, but not one solid argument against the article is found here.

Do some reading on the size of oilfield discoveries the last 15 years. Though some new deposits are still found, most are completely marginal compared to the fields that were found 30-50 years ago. This is after that masses of new technology has been added to the search process.

We are not seeing the end of oil anytime soon. The thing we are coming to the end of in a very short while is Cheap Oil.

$70/barrel is the magic number. That's the point at which things like shale oil and tar sands become profitable. The problem so far as been that while oil occasionally gets expensive, it doesn't stay expensive. As cheap as oil is, it really is cheaper still - eventually the illusion collapses, oil gets cheap again..everybody who starts refining this more expensive oil (shale/tar etc.) winds up losing their shirt. The same happens to people who start up things like electric car companies -just ask the unemployed engineers at Tesla :-(.

GTX-Typhoon
08-04-2009, 12:21 PM
Peak oil is indeed BS.

Also big parts of Russia and the Indian ocean are not scanned for new oil supplies so i think major discoveries are still yet to be made.

Asides that, supply wont dry up so fast and major gains can also be made by the demand side of the story.

I went to China on July the 9th and was away for 3 weeks (arived back on the 28th). That holiday was in part to see the solar eclipse. Aside all the major tourist attractions and small culture shocks i was dumbstruck and awed by what i saw driving on the Chinese roads.

What i saw was something that made me very happy and thrilled: Electric scooters and bikes. Litteraly thousands of electrical trikes, scooters and bikes!

Oil would become cheaper by as much as a 1/3 or even a 1/2 of what it would have costed.

If we just moved closer to our jobs and stepped over to these electrical bikes and scooters then it would save a lot of money and demand would be lowered significantly lowering oil concumption and lowering CO2 emmisions to appease the hippies.

seraosha
08-04-2009, 12:52 PM
is it not a kind of fair game to be alarmist to launch the sooner possible some alternative energy development in order to be ready when oil will become none affordable ?

I don't see it as a case where we need to start screaming the sky is falling and try to use hysterical half-truths and lies to try to get people to move towards renewable energy...I think that education, conservative investments, and viable working alternative fuels need to be researched and developed, then used as working examples of ways to ween ourselves from oil.

As we are seeing in the global warming/climate change backlash...when hysterical BS is shoveled out of the propaganda machines, despite the best intentions (which is arguable), people will not remember that there is some truth to the big lie...only that they are being lied to.

And I still remain convinced that over-population is the biggest threat to out species survival long term, as it is the white elephant in the room...but thats a topic for another thread.

Jobu
08-04-2009, 01:03 PM
We haven't reached peak yet and won't for the foreseeable future. It's really nothing to get excited about.

What you should all be concerned with is nationalized oil. It's not about how much oil Saudi Arabia or Venezuela have left. They have plenty. It's about who controls the flow of that oil.

smalandian
08-04-2009, 01:55 PM
We haven't reached peak yet and won't for the foreseeable future. It's really nothing to get excited about.

What you should all be concerned with is nationalized oil. It's not about how much oil Saudi Arabia or Venezuela have left. They have plenty. It's about who controls the flow of that oil.

Perhaps...but why "give away" influence through big oil dependence? Why loose money through deficit in balance of trade?...etc...it´s beyond me, seriously.

NavyTimes
08-05-2009, 04:01 AM
What you should all be concerned with is nationalized oil.

Yeah, God forbid sovereign nations treating their own national resources as they see fit.





What i saw was something that made me very happy and thrilled: Electric scooters and bikes. Litteraly thousands of electrical trikes, scooters and bikes!

I have one of those! :D Excellent stuff.

Elbs
08-05-2009, 04:04 AM
If we just moved closer to our jobs and stepped over to these electrical bikes and scooters then it would save a lot of money and demand would be lowered significantly lowering oil concumption and lowering CO2 emmisions to appease the hippies.

Please buy me a home nearer to my job so that I don't have to make the 25 mi trip each day. It will save the environments and I can drive a small scooter there and back. U can use my penpal. kthnx :)

Kippari
08-05-2009, 07:05 AM
We haven't reached peak yet and won't for the foreseeable future. It's really nothing to get excited about.

What you should all be concerned with is nationalized oil. It's not about how much oil Saudi Arabia or Venezuela have left. They have plenty. It's about who controls the flow of that oil.

Didn't you hear, the neocon ideaology is falling out of fashion.


Hefty oil prices will raise the value of plastics, which means more expensive products ~ less money in my wallet = Bad thing.

XShipRider
08-05-2009, 07:36 AM
Oil has been 'running out' since it was discovered. When we take something out of the ground which cannot replenish through natural processes as fast as we're using it.. it's technically running out. Discovery of new technologies, cheap production and mass distribution of those discoveries (ala Standard Oil) coupled with ready adoption by consumers the world over is the only way to relegate petroleum products to the ash heap of history.

Our biggest problem with oil is finding equilibrium between rising demand and efficient use. World population increase outpaces the ability of industry to efficiently use the limited supply. Example: Gasoline fueled cars have increased fuel efficiency by X% since the 50s and 60s but the production of cars has increased by XX% which has fueled [sic] demand XXX%. There can be no break even point as long as population/demand exponentially increases and discovery of new ground supply remains stagnant or decreases.

GTX-Typhoon
08-05-2009, 11:37 AM
I have one of those! :D Excellent stuff.

From your way of responding, they must be very, very good! I am buying one :D


Please buy me a home nearer to my job so that I don't have to make the 25 mi trip each day. It will save the environments and I can drive a small scooter there and back. U can use my penpal. kthnx :)

LOL! I cannot even pay for an appartment so the home for you is a no no :(

One way or another, moving closer to your work saves alot of time, money and it appeases the hippies.

seraosha
08-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Yeah, God forbid sovereign nations treating their own national resources as they see fit.


I think you missed the mark...the sovereign nations are free to do what they will with their resources...it's when they invite in foreign investment, receive infrastructure, technology, labor, equipment, distribution, refinement as part of the contract to pump oil, which they are paid for as well...then decide that it all belongs to "the people", and all contracts are null and void, kthnxbai.

That's the problem with "nationalization". When people do it to each other, it's called theft, breach of contract, and is actionable in court. When countries do it, exactly what recourse do you have? You just invested billions and now you and your employees have to eat the loss.

hsh2
08-05-2009, 01:45 PM
Well i guess this is exactly what'll happen.
Isn't that sand in Alberta one of the largest reserve ever discovered? (except it cost too much to extract the oil from it... for now...)

A few days ago I saw a doco on exactly that, the Alberta Oil Sands and it's boomtown. Forgot the name, McBarry or something, stereotypically North American sounding.
It was on "3sat" a German TV station known for it's cultural and scientific shows and docos...which are however always from a leftist point of view.Nothing too objective.

So they made this show, and were bashing the Oil sand business "Hey look at that you have a basin filled with tar. They are destroying the environment. They are consuming the Athabasca lake bla bla bla.".....on grounds of water consumption and NOT costs. The term "costs" hasn't been mentioned once during the doco, it was all about water consumption, athabasca and demographic problems caused by this gold rush.

Funny to see that they have apparently changed their talking point...


I don't see any real point in this.

There never has been a REAL shortage of oil in modern history. For the largest part it simply has been a man-made shortage to demand higher prices.

"One day we will run out of oil" - What a nice, nothing-saying statement.

x2
Not much more to add.