France could defend EU in case of attack: minister

[seruriermarshal]

France could defend EU in case of attack: minister

BERLIN (AFP) Jul 05, 2004
France could use its nuclear capability to defend its neighbours, French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said in an interview Monday, while also urging European Union states to increase military spending.
She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

"If Germany asked us for help, it is probable that European solidarity would come into play," she told the Berliner Zeitung newspaper, and added: "For us, nuclear weapons are the ultimate protection against a threat from abroad."

She said ethnic conflict and terrorism were making the world increasingly more unstable and called on EU members to increase their military budgets to two percent of gross domestic product -- NATO's minimum recommended level.

"Today in Europe there are only three countries who spend more than 2.0 percent of GDP on defence. They are France, Britain and Greece. The others are not doing enough," Alliot-Marie said.

She said that France has a mobile, flexible and highly-motivated military and that it was the second or third best in the world.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From (http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040705092601.p22eaxr1.html)

[Mark Sman]

http://www.thefiremuseum.com/bob's%20fire%20truck.jpg
I have a feeling this thread will need this soon.

[seruriermarshal]

http://www.thefiremuseum.com/bob's%20fire%20truck.jpg
I have a feeling this thread will need this soon.

Why ?

[Jehuty]

Or why we shouldn't put womens at defense minister, THEY will start a nuclear holocaust. rofl
J/k :P

[seruriermarshal]

Or why we shouldn't put womens at defense minister, THEY will start a nuclear holocaust. rofl
J/k :P

But But perhaps France must have nuclear weapon .

[Jehuty]

We have nukes since a long time now.

[Kilgor]

Nukes.. geez.. Its not the be all and end all of defence.

Nukes=new maginot line

[Kitsune]

Nukes=new maginot line
:roll: Rubbish

[Obergefreiter]

France has had nuclear wepaons for a long time. Who would they use them against? No nation will attack Europe in the near future, and any terroist gruppe will only be based out of a nation. A nuclear strike on that nation, most likely a mid-eastern nation full of oil would be a disaster.

I do not think they are serious.

[deutschersoldat]

France could defend EU in case of attack: minister

BERLIN (AFP) Jul 05, 2004
France could use its nuclear capability to defend its neighbours, French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said in an interview Monday, while also urging European Union states to increase military spending.
She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

"If Germany asked us for help, it is probable that European solidarity would come into play," she told the Berliner Zeitung newspaper, and added: "For us, nuclear weapons are the ultimate protection against a threat from abroad."

She said ethnic conflict and terrorism were making the world increasingly more unstable and called on EU members to increase their military budgets to two percent of gross domestic product -- NATO's minimum recommended level.

"Today in Europe there are only three countries who spend more than 2.0 percent of GDP on defence. They are France, Britain and Greece. The others are not doing enough," Alliot-Marie said.

She said that France has a mobile, flexible and highly-motivated military and that it was the second or third best in the world.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From (http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040705092601.p22eaxr1.html)

that is very friendly from france, but i knew before that they are our political friends
woot


eventually you get our atomic waste ;)

[Fargin]

Or why we shouldn't put womens at defense minister, THEY will start a nuclear holocaust. rofl
J/k :P

But only every 28th day.

[Brozozo]

She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

Hmmmm...weren't the French opposed to this very idea of pre-emptive strikes when Bush brought it up?

[henksmoeder]

She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

Hmmmm...weren't the French opposed to this very idea of pre-emptive strikes when Bush brought it up?

Yes they are. They still are. The piece you quoted says IF they try carry out their threats, then the French will react fast. That's what it says, not that they are in favor of preemptive strikes.

[Commander Cool]

Actually, the good thing about middle east countries is that if you nuke them the oil is still perfectly usable.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/french_soldierofsurrender.jpg

[martinexsquaddie]

at least french nukes can be used on the go ahead of thwer president unlike the ****e kit we brought :roll: :(

[Brozozo]

She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

Hmmmm...weren't the French opposed to this very idea of pre-emptive strikes when Bush brought it up?

Yes they are. They still are. The piece you quoted says IF they try carry out their threats, then the French will react fast. That's what it says, not that they are in favor of preemptive strikes.

That's more or less what a pre-emptive strike is, hitting someone before they are able to carry out their threat.

[moughoun]

Actually, the good thing about middle east countries is that if you nuke them the oil is still perfectly usable.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/french_soldierofsurrender.jpg

Ya that is hilarious :roll: , now when you can do that guy's job in the pic then we'll all laugh ;)

[Shadow]

France could defend EU in case of attack: minister

BERLIN (AFP) Jul 05, 2004
France could use its nuclear capability to defend its neighbours, French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said in an interview Monday, while also urging European Union states to increase military spending.
She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

"If Germany asked us for help, it is probable that European solidarity would come into play," she told the Berliner Zeitung newspaper, and added: "For us, nuclear weapons are the ultimate protection against a threat from abroad."

She said ethnic conflict and terrorism were making the world increasingly more unstable and called on EU members to increase their military budgets to two percent of gross domestic product -- NATO's minimum recommended level.

"Today in Europe there are only three countries who spend more than 2.0 percent of GDP on defence. They are France, Britain and Greece. The others are not doing enough," Alliot-Marie said.

She said that France has a mobile, flexible and highly-motivated military and that it was the second or third best in the world.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From (http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040705092601.p22eaxr1.html)

that is very friendly from france, but i knew before that they are our political friends
woot


eventually you get our atomic waste ;)

Right! I think Germany would also love to send its armada of Leo's to defeat a European Enemy. ;)

[szr]

Thats all well and nice of France and all but at any given time, there is more US hardware (in terms of naval destructive power) passing through the Mediterranean than any other single country's transitory Mediterranean naval assents.

I'm sure if France or Germany or anyone else in Europe was attacked by terrorists or a NORKOR type state, the US (through NATO) would offer up its forces in a second to defend Europe and we could do it without using unconventional weapons. For the longest time, France refused to contribute militarily to the NATO command stucture. Things are getting better now and there is more cooperation now between NATO partners now and France is getting more involved (though it's probably because France wants to solitify its place a 'leader' of the EU).

I realise that a statement like Minister Alliot-Marie's is just meant to remind potential foes of the deterrent power of France, but France should focus on participating in joint exercises with its EU AND NATO partners so that in the event of a major conflict involving France or other European countries, France could offer-up something to the war effort other than nukes, some planes and a few paras/legionaries. That is if France wants to be the leader of Europe, of course.. They're going to have to offer up more in the way of conventional capabilities to help promote global stability. Otherwise, I think France is fine.

This may be the wrong place to ask this, but does anyone else feel that France's expansion of its militaries mission as well as increasing economic and - more importanly - military ties with China along with its Euopean power posturing and the annoying way it tries to make itself an obsticle in anything the US tries to do, is well... unsettling?

And to think we just ended the cold war and now may have to deal with another lame quasi-coldwar sometime in the future... http://forums.twtf.com/html/emoticons/eusa_wall.gif

btw I have no problem with France or its people. I was over there at this time last summer and enjoyed myself quite a bit. I'm just not digging the weird vibes coming out of France recently. :backhand:

[Shadow]

That is if France wants to be the leader of Europe, of course..

:cantbeli:

[szr]

That is if France wants to be the leader of Europe, of course..

:cantbeli:

You think France isn't trying to establish itself as the 'moral' leader of Europe?

[Moledet]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

[Commander Cool]

Ya that is hilarious , now when you can do that guy's job in the pic then we'll all laugh
I'm sure I could if I was trained for it. I breezed through basic training effortlessly. I'm sure if I had decided to stay with the military I wouldn't have had any problems. I don't know why so many people have the impression that being a soldier is an incredibly difficult job that very few people can do.

[fantassin]

Try not to get intoxicated by Fox News propaganda...

France only asks for the very legitimate right of being able to defend its own interests itself without having to ask for the permission of others.

Hence the refusal of De Gaulle to accept US nukes that could not have been used w/o US authorization in the 60s and the exit of the integrated command structure.

France is one of the key financial and military contributor to NATO and all the talks of France trying to weaken it are bollocks.

Recently, the decision has been taken to strengthen the number of French officiers within NATO HQs all over the world, the US included.

I, personaly, find the US obstination with dividing Europe (promoting the moslems in Bosnia and Kosovo, inviting Turkey to join for example) much more unsettling....

[szr]

Heh nobody said Bush wasn't an unsettleing president... Atleast I didn't. As far as any of us know, Bush may be gone come January 2005. And like I said, I feel that France's recent commitment to increasing its contributions to its half-century old alliances is a nice change, but I feel that regardless of who is in power in the US, Chirac is trying to make it his legacy as "the European leader who stood up to the US," which imo is an unhealthy way of carrying out foreign relations.. Especially with your allies.

Edit: My references to Bush are in reference to your "inviting Turkey to join for example" line, which we both know didn't occur exactly as you stated. Just clearing that up since you didn't mention Bush directly, either.

[seruriermarshal]

That is if France wants to be the leader of Europe, of course..

:cantbeli:

You think France isn't trying to establish itself as the 'moral' leader of Europe?

In fact I think France wants to be the leader of world .

:roll:

[szr]

^^ Thank you for your contribution to this discussion. That was obviously well thought out.

[moughoun]

Ya that is hilarious , now when you can do that guy's job in the pic then we'll all laugh
I'm sure I could if I was trained for it. I breezed through basic training effortlessly. I'm sure if I had decided to stay with the military I wouldn't have had any problems. I don't know why so many people have the impression that being a soldier is an incredibly difficult job that very few people can do.

Wel lI'm in the military too :D and basic has very little to do with that guy's job, he's sf ;)

[kinghk]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

Grab an AK and make a try then, instead of sitting infront of your computer banging your head to the keyboard to make stupid bashing.

[morlick]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

[Moledet]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.
I don't have a tank.

[moughoun]

Now lad's let's chill out a bit before this turn's into a prc v Taiwan type situation ok :|

[Jehuty]

That is if France wants to be the leader of Europe, of course..

:cantbeli:

You think France isn't trying to establish itself as the 'moral' leader of Europe?

In fact I think France wants to be the leader of world .

:roll:

True.
We recently made an alliance with Liechtenstein to take over the world.
Resistance is futile, you should get used to eat snails right now.

[Kilgor]

The days of conventional conflict are over for the time being.

Nukes arnt going to do anything to terrorists running around planning to blow up themselves and if the whole earth if they could.

More special forces, more intervention in terrorist hotspots and more diplomatic pressure on countries who harbour them.

[Kitsune]

Ah well...

[Kilgor]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so

[FinnishMF]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

France only asks for the very legitimate right of being able to defend its own interests itself without having to ask for the permission of others.


But for some reason it's wrong when the US tries the same thing?

If you accept the statements of Putin (and some people won't),
Iraq was in the early stages of planning attacks in the US.

That alone makes the regime of Hussein a candidate for a takedown.

The policy of pre-emptive action is quite alright providing you have
good intelligence. Obviously we need to tune up a few things.
I lay some of the blame on Clinton, whose idealogically driven rules
made us vulnerable.

I wish Mr. Bush hadn't used this whole WMD argument. Although
we are finding a few things here and there that suggest that we weren't
completely wrong about Hussein's intentions.

[Moledet]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

[cut]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

But you live on an island. Which up until recently, has
been accessible only by ship :D


edit: sorry, airplane also.

[Kilgor]

Yeah.. id say israel did damm well.

ww2 weapons and even some german fighter aircraft (love the irony) they managed to save themselves in 48', despite being grossly outnumbered.

Even the jews in the warsaw getto managed to hold our 4 weeks...
and with barely any arms.

how long did france hold out... 5 weeks ?

[cut]

Yeah.. id say israel did damm well.

ww2 weapons and even some german fighter aircraft (love the irony) they managed to save themselves in 48', despite being grossly outnumbered.

Even the jews in the warsaw getto managed to hold our 4 weeks...
and with barely any arms.

how long did france hold out... 5 weeks ?

hmm let's see, one against one of the greatest armies of all time and the other against a coaltion of comparably rag tag arab armies...

I'm not trying to take anything away from israel, rather pointing out that the french should not be dismissed

[Kilgor]

hmm let's see, one against one of the greatest armies of all time and the other against a coaltion of comparably rag tag arab armies...

The isreali guys will probably be able to help with this one, but the arab armies at the time were hardly rag tag as they are now.

At that time, it was Israel struggling to survive against better equipped and more numerious opponents

[Moledet]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.
You survived 938 years, most of the years people only fought with swords. France had victories in the past, but I was talking about modern warfare.
That's like I'll tell that for over 1000 years we fought nations in bible times, but it's not relevant to modern warfare.

[seruriermarshal]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

Your safe defended need NATO .

rofl

[cut]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

Your safe defended need NATO .

rofl

for 938 years? rofl rofl I've come to realise you're english is bad because you're thick, not because you're foreign

[cut]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.
You survived 938 years, most of the years people only fought with swords. France had victories in the past, but I was talking about modern warfare.
That's like I'll tell that for over 1000 years we fought nations in bible times, but it's not relevant to modern warfare.

modern warfare? where do you draw the line? naval warfare? air warfare? joint warfare? electronic warfare?

[Kilgor]

most people would say ww1, with the first use of tanks, aircraft and deadly use of machineguns.

[soma]

Actually, the good thing about middle east countries is that if you nuke them the oil is still perfectly usable.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/french_soldierofsurrender.jpg

How do you expect to extract it? Robots? rofl

[cut]

most people would say ww1, with the first use of tanks, aircraft and deadly use of machineguns.

naval warfare was way ahead of land warfare at the time why is this more important it has always been the seas that determined the biggest powers.

[seruriermarshal]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

Your safe defended need NATO .

rofl

for 938 years? rofl rofl I've come to realise you're english is bad because you're thick, not because you're foreign

Now you must thank NATO , because your safe .

And you haven't born when before 938 years , that's your luck .

rofl rofl rofl

[cut]

France can defend as long as no one attacks.

French don't kill kids with tank like you.

At least israel can defends its self.... and a proven history of doing so
How do you defended yourselves in germany during ww2 ?

Edit: Stupid comment but so were yours..
Newsflash: Israel exists since 1948.

yeah you kind of defeated your own argument. 56 years you've managed, well done, we've gone 938 without being invaded.

Your safe defended need NATO .

rofl

for 938 years? rofl rofl I've come to realise you're english is bad because you're thick, not because you're foreign

Now you must thank NATO , because your safe .

And you haven't born when before 938 years , that's your luck .

rofl rofl rofl

:( I don't know what you are trying to say..

[Aussie E]

France couldn't even protect itself in the last two world wars, how the f*ck do they think they could protect the EU, let alone themselves? Becuase they got nukes?
Bunch of f*cking jokers!

WWI
Germany/France
:bash:

US&England / Germany
:slap:

WWII
Germany / France
:bash:

US&England / Germany
:slap:

WWIII
? / France
:bash:

? / France
:hug:

NEWSFLASH: French soldiers surrender without shot being fired!



http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50806607.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=B84D4F1548A4F56E9609DC0F9DBBF829A9C30E9B9B114CE8
ABIDJAN, IVORY COAST: A French squadron arrives 06 May 2004 at Abidjan military airport to reinforce a UN peacekeeping operation deployed to steer the west African state towards reconciliation after 19 months of political and military crisis. The UN operation, known by its French acronym ONUCI, said in a statement 05 May 2004 that the 145 soldiers would be deployed in the country's agrarian east. AFP PHOTO ISSOUF (Photo credit should read ISSOUF SANOGO/AFP/***** Images)

Keep you hands on your head and slowly move away from the vehicle! ;)

[mocking_loudly_died]

So to sum up this thread in easy point format:

1. France is still full of cheese eating surrender monkeys
2. Israelis drive tanks to work and then over small children
3. Sunny UK has been defended by NATO for almost 1000 years
4. Cindi Lauper is in Australia

[gbos]

:) This topic is going off topic a little ….

Ok about wwII some of you forgot to mention that a dozen of million of Soviets casualties plus several more in other countries played role to the friction of German’s army power together with the shortages in raw materials, oil etc. I can’t think some country in the early stages of 1940 that in a one on one confrontation with the German army would have an easy job defending so there is no need to accuse France.

[budanski]

What are they gonna do? Load the Charles de Gaulle on rails and ride it around protecting the EU?

I wonder if Rumsfeld had threaten to use nuclear weapons against terrorist, would it be met with the deafening silence from the left as well?

Nukes arent a deterrent to terrorism. The US has tons of them, Russia has tons of them yet both have been hit by terrorists.

[fantassin]

The French Defense Minister said "Rogue States" not terrorism:

Quote:

She said that rogue states "could one day point their missiles toward France and its neighbours. We could say to those countries: 'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"

Then you are free to invent whatever you want in your anti-French obsession, that really would not be the first time.

[budanski]

Of course, the only "rogue state" from abroad to threaten them is the US.


'Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what's hit you.'"
Sounds a little pre-emptive there, shouldnt you take it up with the UN first or more sabre-rattling with a butter knife?

:cantbeli: The world just keeps getting more ironic by the day.