Chinese migrants in Algiers clash

[hulaku]

About 100 local residents and Chinese migrant workers have clashed in the Algerian capital, some brandishing knives and rods, reports say.

Ten Chinese migrants were injured and two Chinese shops looted, ******* reported, citing a Chinese diplomat.

Violence flared after a confrontation between a shop owner and a migrant in the city's Bab Ezzouar district.

High unemployment among young Algerians has fuelled tensions over migrant workers who accept lower pay.

A shopkeeper told ******* that the fight broke out after a disagreement with a Chinese migrant worker.

"I told him not to park his car in front of my shop, but he insulted me," 31-year-old Abdelkrim Salouda said.
"I punched him, I thought it was over, but after 30 minutes he came back with at least 50 Chinese to take revenge. It is a miracle I am still alive."

Firms in Africa's third largest economy say that they depend on Chinese labour - often better qualified and willing to accept lower wages than Algerian workers - to staff the construction sector.

Official estimates put the number of Chinese migrant workers living in Algeria at 35,000.

Some 8,000 work in the building sector in Algeria, according to Agence France Presse, and in the Bab Ezzouar district alone Chinese firms have built dozens of structures.

A diplomat at the Chinese embassy said he hoped Algerian authorities would look into the fighting but added that it would not affect relations between the two countries.

"Our friendship with Algeria is strong and this event is nothing in comparison with the links between our two countries," Ling Jun said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8184499.stm

[Ordie]

Where's the PLAN and the PLAAF when you need them to evacuate.

I guess China doesn't care for the safety and security of its citizens overseas.

[magantosh]

Where's the PLAN and the PLAAF when you need them to evacuate.

I guess China doesn't care for the safety and security of its citizens overseas.


doesn't like US, China can't afford the cost to PLA overseas.

[JCR]

To a european, the idea of Algeria or any other nearby muslim country having problems with migrant violence (from wherever) is very pleasing.
What comes around goes around....
:)

[Mordoror]

I punched him, I thought it was over, but after 30 minutes he came back with at least 50 Chinese to take revenge. It is a miracle I am still alive.

well some kind of "deja vu" but now from the other side of the fence
as said above, what comes around goes around

[hsh2]

To a european, the idea of Algeria or any other nearby muslim country having problems with migrant violence (from wherever) is very pleasing.
What comes around goes around....
:)

Ouch.

Can't say I'll lose many nights of sleep over it either...

[Spezz]

Oh the sweet irony. rofl

[Zarak]

I was going to say 'WTF are Chinese doing in Algeria' but that's dangerously close to 'WTF are Algerians doing in Sweden' which is racism. :(

[Telmar]

The Chinese are not illegals however.

They come under request of Algerian state and private companies. Everyone is documented.

The first came from request of construction companies. Needles to say that they did not just fill in worker positions, but then the entire chain of management.

Noone is saying no to them as the local workforce is either unskilled or unwillling to take these jobs.

[SniperRu]

To a european, the idea of Algeria or any other nearby muslim country having problems with migrant violence (from wherever) is very pleasing.
What comes around goes around....
:)

stupid thing to say, its not like it's the country's policy to send their citizen to europe to cause you problems. People immigrate because they aspire to a better life and only a minority is causing trouble and it is due to many factors such as poverty, discrimination, poor integration, etc.

In Algeria's case, the chinese are integrating pretty well so far: marrying with Algerian women, learning arabic, converting to islam...
The other thing is that alot of them come to work on infrastructure projects and they get **** done well and fast. So the situation is very different than in europe, so don't be pleased just yet.

[hulaku]

[QUOTE=SniperRu;4322047]
In Algeria's case, the chinese are integrating pretty well so far: marrying with Algerian women, learning arabic, converting to islam...
QUOTE]

Can you provide a source for the above statement?

[cltknight]

The Chinese are not illegals however.

They come under request of Algerian state and private companies. Everyone is documented.

The first came from request of construction companies. Needles to say that they did not just fill in worker positions, but then the entire chain of management.

Noone is saying no to them as the local workforce is either unskilled or unwillling to take these jobs.

The Chinese involved are shop keepers, so i don't think they are part of the workforce of the Chinese construction companies.

Chinese companies had won projects worth Billions of dollars in Algeria, to the dismay of the European companies:) I can understand the reaction of our European members now.

[SniperRu]

@hulaku

nope, its an anecdotal source from my family members, but there is really nothing surprising in this. I'm not saying a majority does it tho, but there are cases.

[Mordoror]

@hulaku

nope, its an anecdotal source from my family members, but there is really nothing surprising in this. I'm not saying a majority does it tho, but there are cases.

rather anecdotic as several reports say that the chinese don't integrate in Algerian (or african) societies and stay among themselves
that's one of the complain of the locals btw

[JCR]

Sometimes you've got to post stupid things.
:)

Realistically, the chinese are pretty much killing the bazaar system in north africa.
In past times, the chinese just imported their goods but now they're taking up retail as well, driving the small arab retailers out of business.
At least thats what a guy from Morocco I know told me.

[Mordoror]

In past times, the chinese just imported their goods but now they're taking up retail as well, driving the small arab retailers out of business.

these complains come from all the markets in Africa

[Telmar]

...

Chinese companies had won projects worth Billions of dollars in Algeria, to the dismay of the European companies:) I can understand the reaction of our European members now.

What do you think you are understanding?

[cltknight]

What do you think you are understanding?

Sorry, I was talking about the OLD Europe part not the new comers :)
so i dont think you will get it.

[Telmar]

Sorry, I was talking about the OLD Europe part not the new comers :)
so i dont think you will get it.

I am from OLD Europe...just happen to be living in NEW Europe.

So please go on. I'm all ears.

[cltknight]

Traditionally, the maghreb part of North Africa has ALWAYS been considered to be part of France and few other Western countries sphere of influence, but for the last decade or so The US and the Chinese have won contracts worth billions of US dollars, and I am not sure if our European friends are really liking that.

[cltknight]

welcome to the all-chicom africa...

damn, this situation could never occur, if the West had not betrayed Rhodesia....

Its funny, how you guys think of Africans as less than equal, that have to be controlled by somebody :)

[Mordoror]

I am not sure if our European friends are really liking thati don't see the point with the chinese thingy fact

just to be clear some of the maghreb/african countries welcomed the chinese because the "evil white colonialist man" so easy to be charged of all those countries internal problems was not welcomed anymore
well fair enough but don't forget that chinese are like others, not more cool (in fact maybe they are more harsh)
they need the african ressources but they are less human right , work safety and environmental friendly efficient

and they have a centralized way of working

so they will suck all the ressources of the continent they can (moreover with their own people because they have no trust in locals and have a nasty almost racist view of the africans ) and go away, leaving the dumps, devastated economies and still bribed/corrupted govs (chinese are very found on bribery, it is like a play for them ...)
those african countries even if they think/thought otherwise won't get out better with chinese than with europeans

and it has begun already (Copper and other metal mines were already dumped silently in 24 h in Gambia leaving the area devastated both from an economical and ecological point of view because copper price has fall down ... they just packed their equipment, workers and not even informed fired the 1/3 local workers who came the next day only to find closed gates ....)

[cltknight]

So according to you Europeans did a better job in Africa:) Talking about sucking Africa dry. I have lived in several African countries, European don't like Chinese in Africa, because they just can not match their prices, it's the truth.

so they will suck all the ressources of the continent they can (moreover with their own people because they have no trust in locals and have a nasty almost racist view of the africans ) and go away, leaving the dumps, devastated economies and still bribed/corrupted govs (chinese are very found on bribery, it is like a play for them ...)
I like this quote, but iwas not sure if you were talking about Chinese or Europeans:)
Chinese are far from being the model investor but at lease they are building alot of infrastructures, and that's one thing the Europeans never did.

I ll give you an example, during the 80's Mauritania wanted to build a commercial harbor, a port or a marine terminal not sure about the technical term, anyway, they hired many French companies but guess what none of them would build it and the official reason was it was technically impossible to build such a thing in that area.:) That was the official reason but guess why the French would not build it? Because to the south of Mauritania, France was doing a lot of business in the port of Dakar ( Senegal), and building a new port in Mauritania, would not help " Business". Anyway, The Mauritanians hired a Chinese company and voila:) they got themselves a new port :)

[Telmar]

Traditionally, the maghreb part of North Africa has ALWAYS been considered to be part of France and few other Western countries sphere of influence, but for the last decade or so The US and the Chinese have won contracts worth billions of US dollars, and I am not sure if our European friends are really liking that.

Although the tables are far from being turned, and that the USA remains a marginal partner for Algeria, I think you might be over-exagerating the economical butthurt part.

I would rather point out that communities that have complained on how they were welcomed in Europe find immigration rather unpleasant when it starts to modify their own living habits.

[Telmar]

i don't see the point with the chinese thingy fact

just to be clear some of the maghreb/african countries welcomed the chinese because the "evil white colonialist man" so easy to be charged of all those countries internal problems was not welcomed anymore
...

Not to mention the Chinese are bribing their way in...

[Telmar]

Chinese are far from being the model investor but at lease they are building alot of infrastructures, and that's one thing the Europeans never did.

Man, you are thick...

My mistake, I should have known at first glance where you actually come from. I guess avatars are deceiving.

[Zeev]

stupid thing to say, its not like it's the country's policy to send their citizen to europe to cause you problems. People immigrate because they aspire to a better life and only a minority is causing trouble and it is due to many factors such as poverty, discrimination, poor integration, etc.

In Algeria's case, the chinese are integrating pretty well so far: marrying with Algerian women, learning arabic, converting to islam...
The other thing is that alot of them come to work on infrastructure projects and they get **** done well and fast. So the situation is very different than in europe, so don't be pleased just yet.

I dont think so, even in modern countries, chinese ppl tends to stay in their own community, so I dont even mind about africa or arabic countries.

[cltknight]

Man, you are thick...

My mistake, I should have known at first glance where you actually come from. I guess avatars are deceiving.

I am proud of that avatar, but the problem is that you guys " can not handle the truth ". Sorry for hurting your feelings, but i was just reporting what i saw:) I do believe you should be grateful to Mr. Gorbatchov because i have been to Czechoslovakia as well:)


don't really know about these matters a lot, now do You?

Sorry to burst your bubble but Rhodesia and the rest, were heavens to the settlers but can you say the same about the native people?

[Telmar]

[QUOTE=cltknight;4322230]I am proud of that avatar, but the problem is that you guys " can not handle the truth ". Sorry for hurting your feelings, but i was just reporting what i saw:)

QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm crying on my keyboard now. So long bro.

[Mordoror]

So according to you Europeans did a better job in Africa:)
please don't put words in my mouth that reflect your panaoia or fantasm,

Talking about sucking Africa dry. I have lived in several African countries, European don't like Chinese in Africa, because they just can not match their prices, it's the truth.
yeap realpolitik
like anywhere around the world


Chinese are far from being the model investor but at lease they are building alot of infrastructures, and that's one thing the Europeans never did.Chinese are paid for
European were not because the african states were theirs
you are comparing apples and oranges
and still investments were done in several of african countries (but with the relative importance of their time)
do Egypt possesses railroad grid ? guess who made it : the brits
was Algeria provided with grain during Napoleon III rule to avoid some starvation period : guess who paid for it : the metropolitan frenches
was Durban a prosperous trade and whaler harbor ? : guess who made the infrastructure ?

and so on, and so on
it is false to say not infrastructures were built in those countries
who built the roads, railroads, bridges, hospitals, schools ... the previous colonisators
were those investments sufficient or efficient : certainly not
were they done : yes they were ....




I ll give you an example, during the 80's Mauritania wanted to build a commercial harbor, a port or a marine terminal not sure about the technical term, anyway, they hired many French companies but guess what none of them would build it and the official reason was it was technically impossible to build such a thing in that area.:) That was the official reason but guess why the French would not build it? Because to the south of Mauritania, France had control of the port of Dakar, and building a new port in Mauritania, would not help " Business". Anyway, The Mauritanians hired a Chinese company and voila:) they got themselves a new port :)as i said real politik
Chinese are working for their interests not the african ones
my example above in Gambia is not the only one
they are buying land in Africa to raise crops and export it to China
not a seed of soy or wheat goes on african markets while half of the african population is starving

but of course as said Telmar, given your posts i should also have understood from where you are
i would have avoided to spend my time doing your education :cantbeli:

[Panchito12]

Today "GRINGO GO HOME".

Tomorrow....the Chinese are going to get it X20.

Just wait and see.

[cltknight]

talking about Port of Nouakchott , this was precisely built AND financed by - guess who - the French.

if You wished to mention Nouadhibou, that was planned, built and financed by ..... the French.

What more, Port of Nouakchott now is under further development, and financing & managing are provided by an UAE firm. chk out here (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/516593-dubai-world-eyes-mauritania-investments-port-deal), if You want to.


The Friendship Harbor in Nouakchott, capital of northeast Africa's Mauritania, used to be China's second largest aiding project in Africa.

The harbor was built at the cost of 340 million yuan (some 35 million U.S. dollars) by China Road & Bridge Corporation during 1979-1986. It has three berths of 10,000 dwt, and is fully equipped with facilities such as bulwarks, repairing workshops and warehouses.

SOUNDBITE Wang Lijun, general manager of China Road & Bridge Corporation Nouakchott Office "We overcame many difficulties during the construction. There were two major difficulties. One was that the Atlantic Ocean was quite stormy. The other was the quicksand along the seacoast of the Friendship Harbor. Our technical experts did lots of experiments and took necessary measures to solve the problems. Now, the harbor has been used for over 20 years. It proved that our measures are effective."

Now, the Friendship Harbor has a berthing throughput of 1.5 million dwt, far exceeding the designed capacity of 500,000 dwt. China State Construction Engineering Corp. is discussing with the Mauritanian government about the construction of No. 4 and No. 5 berths.

Xinhua News Agency correspondents reporting from Nouakchott, Mauritania. [XHTV]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2009-07/28/content_11787657.htm

You are funny :)

[cltknight]

And your point is? You were saying that the port of Nouakchott was originally " financed" and built by France and i proved you wrong, so all the other additions to the port are not really RELEVANT are they :)

let's keep it civil:)

[liyi5598]

Where's the PLAN and the PLAAF when you need them to evacuate.

I guess China doesn't care for the safety and security of its citizens overseas.

It's your Americans idea as a super power. I don't want China to be that kind.

All Chinese need to follow laws of the country they stay. Govt effects only in protect citizens again illegally treating in foreign countries.

So any Chinese wants to make his fortune in a foreign country, he needs to consider all the risks and make budget for security. He can't rely on govt. paying his body guard fee.

I know some Americans got rich by stealing oils from Iraq, while other Americans have to pay the bill of occupying Iraq.

Ordie (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=19107), are you making furtune form Iraq, or are you paying tax for Iraq? Or Do you plan to maintain the military by rubbing the occupied country?

[Russianlynxy]

Today "GRINGO GO HOME".

Tomorrow....the Chinese are going to get it X20.

Just wait and see.

Yup.

This is somewhat already happening in Russia's far eastern regions. I have family up in Khabarovsk, nobody likes Chinese people - they have the utmost worst regional reputation there.

Call it racist, but they aren't exactly the peace-loving hard-working immigrants that the media sometimes makes them out to be either. No whitewash here, just realism.

They are seriously bent on settling the territory, and the Khabarovsky Kray regional government isn't letting them. Conflicts usually arise when inspection comes down and tears down their greenhouse, and deports the whole family.

[cltknight]

now You can see?

See what? that you are making my point? Your article states that the port of Nouakchott was built by the Chinese, As for the Port Wharf, i never said a word about it.

[cltknight]

Port Wharf and Port Friendship are one and the same. in friggin Nouakchott.


no worries mate, You'll deserve the red banner medal for yo brave stand against the capitalists!rofl

Ok, Have you been to Nouakchott? I guess not, i have lived there for 2 years and i do know what i am talking about they are both in the outskirts of the city, and trust me they are not the same :) If you only go to the article you posted, and READ IT, you will be able to conclude that they are not the same.


n 1977 the Wharf was lengthened to provide 3 extra berths for ships of average tonnage raising its capacity to 320,000 tonnes. However, the rapid growth of traffic, coupled with projects developing new industries and the increase in inland trade to land locked countries led to the Mauritanian government to negotiate with the Peoples Republic of China in order to build a deep sea harbour at Nouakchott. These negotiations led to the signature in October 1974 of an economic co-operation agreement in order to build such a port. Preliminary work commenced in 1978 with the foundation stone being laid on 10th April 1979. The inauguration of the Nouakchott deep-sea harbour, christened the 'Port of Friendship' took place on 17th September 1986.

As for capitalism i am all about capitalism :)
The only difference is that i like to call things for what they are, I am not trying to defend the Chinese, and yes they are not perfect and they are protecting their interest but the same can be said about Europeans, the only difference is that Europeans are loosing the battle in Africa and they are being sore losers.

[muttbutt]

Today "GRINGO GO HOME".

Tomorrow....the Chinese are going to get it X20.

Just wait and see.
Indeed, it's happening already in various part's of Africa already, from the Congo to Zimbabwe, from Algeria to South Africa, riots and strikes over jobs/how the locals are treated by Chinese companies, thats of course if the Chinese hire the locals. They alot of the time just ship in their own workers.

And in Africa they are very "hands on" in conflict resolution, usually the hands being taken off with a machete:|
I wonder when we'll hear of a massacre of Chinese workers:-(

[cltknight]

So, Yo lived there. So, which one is in Jreida then?



not that they are on the losing side. few democracies lost, but almost all dictatorships done so.

h:cantbeli: You go have yourself a good day :)

[cltknight]

nuff said, bet yo half-oas, half-fln also havin one ;)

Half what??

[liyi5598]

Evil Europeans, same hatred as to Jews' success 70 years before.

[Ordie]

Evil Europeans, same hatred as to Jews' success 70 years before.

The Europeans have nothing to do with the events in Algeria.

Much of the tensions has to do with the presence of Chinese workers in a country with 11% unemployment.

[Zeev]

Evil Europeans, same hatred as to Jews' success 70 years before.

Please don't use the tragedies of my people to argue in your own interests.

Show some respect.

THANKS A LOT.

[Henry's Fork]

i don't see the point with the chinese thingy fact

just to be clear some of the maghreb/african countries welcomed the chinese because the "evil white colonialist man" so easy to be charged of all those countries internal problems was not welcomed anymore
well fair enough but don't forget that chinese are like others, not more cool (in fact maybe they are more harsh)
they need the african ressources but they are less human right , work safety and environmental friendly efficient

and they have a centralized way of working

so they will suck all the ressources of the continent they can (moreover with their own people because they have no trust in locals and have a nasty almost racist view of the africans ) and go away, leaving the dumps, devastated economies and still bribed/corrupted govs (chinese are very found on bribery, it is like a play for them ...)
those african countries even if they think/thought otherwise won't get out better with chinese than with europeans

and it has begun already (Copper and other metal mines were already dumped silently in 24 h in Gambia leaving the area devastated both from an economical and ecological point of view because copper price has fall down ... they just packed their equipment, workers and not even informed fired the 1/3 local workers who came the next day only to find closed gates ....)


Its an ugly picture you paint, but its a true picture never the less.

[Ordie]

It's your Americans idea as a super power. I don't want China to be that kind.

Sooner or later, the Chinese will demand that thier government should do more to protect and aid thier loved ones abroad.

It took a hostage crisis in Iran 30 years ago to rationalize American responses from its citizens abroad.

As China becomes more involved in the world, It's only a matter of time it will encounter a similar crisis. Unfortunatley, China's inaction and lack of rapid response will encourage others to seek a weak Chinese target everywhere else.

[Mordoror]

Its an ugly picture you paint, but its a true picture never the less.

@Henry's Fork

well it was not mean to show disrespect
anyway it is more history and culture linked
for the bribery thing the old chinese empires were always controlled by high administrators that made your things going on through bribes (and it is still true today with the corruption scale of the provincial governors and admnistration)
anyway you have somewhat a counter balance in China as the central control is strong enough sometimes to react
it is not the case in Africa becasue those who are bribale are those who are in charge of the countries

[cltknight]

@Henry's Fork

well it was not mean to show disrespect
anyway it is more history and culture linked
for the bribery thing the old chinese empires were always controlled by high administrators that made your things going on through bribes (and it is still true today with the corruption scale of the provincial governors and admnistration)
anyway you have somewhat a counter balance in China as the central control is strong enough sometimes to react
it is not the case in Africa becasue those who are bribale are those who are in charge of the countries

Its funny how you guys talk about Africans as if they were less equal to Westerners or even Asians, talking like corruption only exist in Africa, like its part of the African culture, come on, last time i checked corruption was a global phenomenon, from you ex foreign minister Roland Dumas, you ex President Jacque Chirac to your ex prime minister Pierre Beregovoy( committed suicide)
they were all tainted by corruption, So please spare us the B*&& S$%^

[Mordoror]

would you like to just STFU and let big personns have a decent discussion

and FYI :

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2008

12 African nations on the last 20 among the most corrupted nations on earth
2 Asiatic
1 Caribean
5 from central asia

and no African nation in the 20 first less corrupted nations


so get your facts straight before opening your wide mouth :bash:

[cltknight]

would you like to just STFU and let big personns have a decent discussion

and FYI :

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2008

12 African nations on the last 20 among the most corrupted nations on earth
2 Asiatic
1 Caribean
5 from central asia

so get your facts straight before opening your wide mouth :bash:

Why are you being mean about it? i was just stating facts, proven facts for that matter.
OHH did i hurt your feelings:) need a hug? asking me to STFU is usually not an argument used by adults, its usually used by little kids or adults that try to act though while sitting behind their computer screens.
can't you have a civilized discussion, or you are only good at lecturing us about how corrupted Africans are:) can't we take a little bit of criticism.

[Mordoror]

i don't discuss with trolls that are opening a wide mouth when they know sh** about what they are talking about and are in total denial of internationaly recognized things

so son if you can't accept that Africa is the continent with the most corrupted countries around the world (i gave you a link) and still behave like a kid whinig about evil european, this evil european that, you will be treatred appropriately,

BTW i am still awaiting your reaction in regard of the link and and the analysis of the corruption pattern presented in that link. But if you have nothing more constructive that the post above to post, as said yes please STFU

[cltknight]

i don't discuss with trolls that are opening a wide mouth when they know sh** about what they are talking about and are in total denial of internationaly recognized things

so son if you can't accept that Africa is the continent with the most corrupted countries around the world (i gave you a link) and still behave like a kid whinig about evil european, this evil european that, you will be treatred appropriately,

BTW i am still awaiting your reaction in regard of the link and and the analysis of the corruption pattern presented in that link. But if you have nothing more constructive that the post above to post, as said yes please STFU

I never denied the fact that corruption was a fact of life in Africa, but you made it look like its only an African problem, while i just listed the names of an ex president, ex prime minister and an ex foreign minister from France who were tainted by corruption. Try to keep it civil, i did not disrespect you or called you names, so ill appreciated if you extend me the same courtesy.

[Henry's Fork]

@Henry's Fork

well it was not mean to show disrespect
anyway it is more history and culture linked
for the bribery thing the old chinese empires were always controlled by high administrators that made your things going on through bribes (and it is still true today with the corruption scale of the provincial governors and admnistration)
anyway you have somewhat a counter balance in China as the central control is strong enough sometimes to react
it is not the case in Africa becasue those who are bribale are those who are in charge of the countries

I know you didnt. I was agreeing with your whole first post, be as ugly a picture as it is.
Its just the way it is in that part of the world. Just like what was being said in the Chechen thread. Dont have to like it or agree with it but i have to accept that how its done. On the bright side, change is possible, not like the fake change here, but real change. If other exploited countries in the past can make the break through, these countries in Africa can. Willing of course. Although i have been told in the past, here, by Africans, that "this is Africa or Welcome to Africa" in a sarcastic point.

What will always remain the same on this globe: Businesses will always look for the cheapest labor they can find. And there will always be outsiders, legal or not, willing to come and work for next to nothing. The jobless locals feeling butthurt, but even more butthurt if the economy is bad. I remember stories just like this during the bad economy times in the 80's.

[Mordoror]

@cltknght
yes but you are making interpretations (based on your own paranoia) of what the others say
so let me clear it up

read my statement again :

it is not the case in Africa becasue those who are bribale are those who are in charge of the countrieswhere is the assesment : it is only an african problem and nobody else is corrupt ?
where is the assesment (to quote yourself) "it is part of the african culture"

it is a part of some elite cultures of some (many) african countries
those who are bribable are going from customers to policemen to ministers and presidents in some countries meaning they are those who are in charge
is it false ? have you been in Congo, Cameroon, Egypt or Centrafrique to tell me otherwise ?
now some others countries are less corrupt than others
but look at my link again .... overall African countries are very badly placed
is it false again ?

putting word in others mouths lead to reaction like mines

so next time if you want to keep it civil, read carefully the words of others's posts and stop interpretating the posts

you, son, should separate the facts (what i wrotte and supported by link) and the interpretations you makes


and stop playing the "poor bashed badly treated africans" against the rest of the world
the colonial card is the most childish that can come from any african
colonialism has finished since 40 to 50 years
now it is your elites that are in charge
and they are now responsible for the mess, not so much the europeans anymore (although they may have a role to play through economical/political pressure... but the ultimate words of decisions are in your politicians mouths...if they weren't so greedy ...)

[cltknight]

Yes, i have been to Africa and have lived there for over two years and i do know that its a fact of life there, so i do know what i am talking about, on the other hand, corruption does exist in the Western world maybe not to the same level but nevertheless, it's there.
I do agree with the following statement "now it is your elites that are in charge
and they are now responsible for the mess, not so much the europeans anymore (although they may have a role to play through economical/political pressure... but the ultimate words of decisions are in your politicians mouths...if they weren't so greedy ...)
putting word in others mouths lead to reaction like mines"
except for the part where you call their leaders " my elite :)

[StinkyStreet]

To a european, the idea of Algeria or any other nearby muslim country having problems with migrant violence (from wherever) is very pleasing.
What comes around goes around....
:)

Jack can fix it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yM3-YO7qHs

[liyi5598]

Please don't use the tragedies of my people to argue in your own interests.

Show some respect.

THANKS A LOT.

Sorry for the hurt I might bring to you or your people. But I didn't use your people's tragedies for our interests.

I said so because since 2005, my overseas friends talked high risks all over the world, that westen medias ARE stirring up ethinic hatred to Chinese. Which are attentioned by our medias yet.

I read some westen newspapers from Internet, they are full of scraps as China sucks all the resources in Africa, China racist in Africa, China bribes in Africa, China starving Africa, sending food back, bala, bala, bala......

You can read @Mordoror (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=49205) in this post for details, or even worse, @muttbutt (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=25389): And in Africa they (CHINESE) are very "hands on" in conflict resolution, usually the hands being taken off with a machete
I wonder when we'll hear of a massacre of Chinese workers

It's not strange of having idiots here, but it's an alarm when lots of newspapers, magazines, radios and TVs are talking so.

For you, free press = justice is a belief; for me, it's just a suspicion.

Did free presses in democratic countries stir up anti-semitism before WWII? Did Jews also possess the same stereotype impressions of GREED and the source of all the troubles? Did many democratic publics also accept these stereotype scrapts as truths before WWII? And as a nation suffered so much of distorted unfairness, how can you accept all these distorts to Chinese so easily, only because this scrapts are from the mouths of free medias?

Will free presses, in a crusade crazy of anti-communist, stir up bloody conflicts to Chinese again, as an effective method to attack CCP?

This suspecios is NOT a private possession of you or your people, it's a possession of all human beings, and it might affects many lifes of Chinese.

Sorry for the might hurt again, and sorry for I have to insist on my suspicion.

[Telmar]

Sorry for the hurt I might bring to you or your people. But I didn't use your people's tragedies for our interests.

I said so because since 2005, my overseas friends talked high risks all over the world, that westen medias ARE stirring up ethinic hatred to Chinese. Which are attentioned by our medias yet.

I read some westen newspapers from Internet, they are full of scraps as China sucks all the resources in Africa, China racist in Africa, China bribes in Africa, China starving Africa, sending food back, bala, bala, bala......

You can read @Mordoror (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=49205) in this post for details, or even worse, @muttbutt (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=25389): And in Africa they (CHINESE) are very "hands on" in conflict resolution, usually the hands being taken off with a machete
I wonder when we'll hear of a massacre of Chinese workers

It's not strange of having idiots here, but it's an alarm when lots of newspapers, magazines, radios and TVs are talking so.

For you, free press = justice is a belief; for me, it's just a suspicion.

Did free presses in democratic countries stir up anti-semitism before WWII?

Will free presses, in a crusade crazy of anti-communist, stir up bloody conflicts to Chinese again, as an effective method to attack CCP?

This suspecios is NOT a private possession of you or your people, it's a possession of all human beings, and it might affects many lifes of Chinese.

Sorry for the might hurt again, and sorry for I have to insist on my suspicion.

You poor little thing...

You want to be a superpower?

Learn to cope with criticism.

Take a crash course with our American friends who are responsible for all the catastrophes in the world since the end of WWI and maybe even before. They are quite experienced in taking sh!t from the everyone, having their citizens killed abroad. Hey take a crash course with former colonists from old Europe as well. Take a crash course lesson with Jews that you seem to care for so much.

[muttbutt]

.

You can read @Mordoror (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=49205) in this post for details, or even worse, @muttbutt (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=25389): And in Africa they (CHINESE) are very "hands on" in conflict resolution, usually the hands being taken off with a machete
I wonder when we'll hear of a massacre of Chinese workers

Wrong, read what I said again, then re-read, the guys with the machetes I was refering to would be the locals.:roll:


BTW my good man, I have family who are Chinese

[Connaught Ranger]

The Shop-owner started it, since when does he own the public street?p-)

[Connaught Ranger]

You poor little thing...

You want to be a superpower?

Learn to cope with criticism.

Take a crash course with our American friends who are responsible for all the catastrophes in the world since the end of WWI and maybe even before. They are quite experienced in taking sh!t from the everyone, having their citizens killed abroad. Hey take a crash course with former colonists from old Europe as well. Take a crash course lesson with Jews that you seem to care for so much.


WTF :cantbeli:

[Telmar]

^^^

Failed sarcasm I guess then.

[Connaught Ranger]

^^^

Failed sarcasm I guess then.

then kindly use the fvcking p-) or :roll: icon.

[Hollis]

^^^

Failed sarcasm I guess then.


Looks like it................. :cantbeli:

[Telmar]

OK, but you may want to check your sarcasmometer settings as well. p-)

[Chimera]

So according to you Europeans did a better job in Africa:) Talking about sucking Africa dry. I have lived in several African countries, European don't like Chinese in Africa, because they just can not match their prices, it's the truth.

I like this quote, but iwas not sure if you were talking about Chinese or Europeans:)
Chinese are far from being the model investor but at lease they are building alot of infrastructures, and that's one thing the Europeans never did.

I ll give you an example, during the 80's Mauritania wanted to build a commercial harbor, a port or a marine terminal not sure about the technical term, anyway, they hired many French companies but guess what none of them would build it and the official reason was it was technically impossible to build such a thing in that area.:) That was the official reason but guess why the French would not build it? Because to the south of Mauritania, France was doing a lot of business in the port of Dakar ( Senegal), and building a new port in Mauritania, would not help " Business". Anyway, The Mauritanians hired a Chinese company and voila:) they got themselves a new port :)

Now i'm gonna bring you some facts in your moronic face. Talking about those 'greedy Europeans'.

http://ipezone.blogspot.com/2008/04/summary-of-oecd-foreign-aid-in-2007.html

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/yathribjr/odaamounts.gif


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/yathribjr/odagni.gif

These figures come from the OECD org.

Sure Ol' Europe never helped them in building infrastructure.

Now STFU.

[cltknight]

Now i'm gonna bring you some facts in your moronic face. Talking about those 'greedy Europeans'.

http://ipezone.blogspot.com/2008/04/summary-of-oecd-foreign-aid-in-2007.html

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/yathribjr/odaamounts.gif


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/yathribjr/odagni.gif

These figures come from the OECD org.

Sure Ol' Europe never helped them in building infrastructure.

Now STFU.

Your point is?:) are you trying to tell me that Europe did a single good thing in Africa:) You are a funny boy.

[Chimera]

Your point is?:) are you trying to tell me that Europe did a single good thing in Africa:) You are a funny boy.

You bring your 'experiences' that do not reflect the reality of the EU involvment in aid programms.
I bring you facts and figures that show the opposite.

You try to affect reality with experiences that are mostly irrelevent on a macro economic level. I'm showing you the opposite. You will also pay attention to the position of the US and China on these charts, especially the second one.

What we can say with the OECD studies, is that the EU helps Africa to get out of misery much more than other countries. Ths your argumentation and so-called experiences are pointless.

[Shuimo]

High unemployment among young Algerians has fuelled tensions over migrant workers who accept lower pay.

That is the key part of what the trouble was all about!

Such stories are nothing new!the same everywhere!

[cltknight]

You bring your 'experiences' that do not reflect the reality of the EU involvment in aid programms.
I bring you facts and figures that show the opposite.

You try to affect reality with experiences that are mostly irrelevent on a macro economic level. I'm showing you the opposite. You will also pay attention to the position of the US and China on these charts, especially the second one.

What we can say with the OECD studies, is that the EU helps Africa to get out of misery much more than other countries. Ths your argumentation and so-called experiences are pointless.



All your statistics are irrelevant ,lets not forget that the source of Africa’s misery is something called colonialism.
colonialism was a one armed bandit.The entire system of colonialism was based on how much, how best and how fast Europe could exploit Africa even at the cost of African “life and limb.” It sowed the seeds of violence and instability that have followed Africa till this day.
The legacies of colonialism are still quite visible everywhere in Africa. The most outstanding is the diametrical relationship that exists between Europe and Africa. This continent remains the least developed in the world and a showcase for hunger, disease misery and conflicts.
Neocolonialism continued the job left by colonialism. Its main instruments were hypocrisy, double standards and propaganda. The spiral of conflicts that greeted African independence were visible signs of neo-colonialism at work. It is not difficult to find Europe’s hand in all African conflicts from the Congo in 1960, through the Rwandan genocide of 1994 to the recent upheavals in the continent.
African conflicts provide a lucrative market for western (and now Chinese) arms merchants. Europe is notorious for hypocrisy and double standards in Africa. The West has left a reputation for condoning the butchery of Africans by Africans and then preaching human rights. Europe provided economic and military assistance to obnoxious apartheid regime of South Africa that butchered Africans in thousands

In August 2008 for example, the government of Rwanda issued its report which documented France’s role in the Rwandan genocide. It is shocking to find the names of former French leaders like Francois Mitterand, Allan Juppe and Dominque de Villpin. France is among those western countries which claim to uphold human rights.
Neo-colonialism also practices a policy of selective criticism of African governments. Two cases in point are the recently flawed elections in Nigeria (2007) and Kenya (2008). For fear of disrupting oil supplies in Nigeria, the West did not go beyond verbal protests. As for Kenya, this country was simply transformed into an ethnic volcano

[DID]

To a european, the idea of Algeria or any other nearby muslim country having problems with migrant violence (from wherever) is very pleasing.
What comes around goes around....
:)
Same problem in the Gulf Emirates, with Pakistani workers.

[Zeev]

Same problem in the Gulf Emirates, with Pakistani workers.

You sure pakistani immigrants cause problems in gulf state? I have doubts because the police over there is very strict, to say the less! :)

[Solvent]

For those, who still thinks that Africa is under the burden of colonialism:



Nice sliding walk at the beginning.

Didn't finish the video though, it's too long.

[Ordie]

That is the key part of what the trouble was all about!

Such stories are nothing new!the same everywhere!

From my point of view.

The China conducts direct business, investments and provides non-conditional loans and grants to African governments. Many of these governments are viewed as very unpopular and corrupt by its own citizens.

When China does come in with workforce, money and equipment it does so back by the local government.

This creates resentment among the locals since they are shut out by thier own government not only in jobs but the government owned molopolies and oligarchies.

It's going to be a matter of time that Chinese Citizens overseas, particularly in Africa will be targeted and killed by the restless natives.

The more China expands its interests throughout the world by being friends with unpopular governments, the great the risks for its citizens, its image and for overseas military intervention.

The Indians have a different approach. They do not conduct business with governments. However, private Indian businesses engage in local African business ventures bypassing the monopolies and governments. Most Africans get a better deal than the Chinese ventures since Indian investments tend to be vertical with direct benefits to locals. For example, the buying and processing of cashews or peanuts for exports to India or local economies.

The US new message to Africa is this: "We help countries in Africa who can help themselves." Given Obama's African heritage, he's probably more popular than the local leaders within African Countries. Thus placing pressure on local leaders seeking legitimacy.

[matthew.manhorn]

The US new message to Africa is this: "We help countries in Africa who can help themselves." Given Obama's African heritage, he's probably more popular than the local leaders within African Countries. Thus placing pressure on local leaders seeking legitimacy.

Well the unfortunately US during Clinton's administration didn't help Rwanda :-(

[Ordie]

Well the unfortunately US during Clinton's administration didn't help Rwanda :-(

That sucked...so did Somalia...

The primary reason why we didn't involve ourselves in Rwanda.