the best bullpup rifle

[israeli dude]

i have a quastion to ask you...
who's the best bullpup rifle in the world today???

is the Steyr AUG,GIAT FAMAS, IMI Tavor,SAR-21 ...

[Hellman109]

You will soon learn that asking for the best anything on a forum wont always get an objective answer....

For instance i love the Steyr AUG, but Im Australian, our army uses these...

Also, best for what?

[MolliG]

SA80 Family p-)

Really, from what I've read the AUG and FA MAS families are always held high in regard. In the end it's just down to the individual and their tastes and planned use for the rifles. :)

[Flagg]

I like the Steyr...as I'm ordered to like it.....since it's the rifle I'm issued ;)

But seriously...I like the Steyr....

Although, I would like to get my grubby hands on a Tavor to give it a go.

[Kitsune]

MolliG wrote:
SA80 Family

The whole family? The old SA80ties, that were used during GWI included? ;)

[fantassin]

The FAMAS is OK, but not necessarily "the best".

French SF prefer to use SIG 551s, HK G36s and M4s because they can take on more accessories, are easier to maintain and probably are sturdier. Plus they don't scream "France" which is a good thing when you want to remain discreet...

Overally it's a popular weapon, especially with the Aimpoint ML2 which is standard on infantry FAMAS in France now.

[MolliG]

MolliG wrote:
SA80 Family

The whole family? The old SA80ties, that were used during GWI included? ;)

Every single one, from the IW prototypes, to the L70, to the L85A2.

p-) :P

[-Max2-]

I have a weakness for the FN F2000. I like the Steyr AUG too.

[Herrmannek]

Then you can call me obiective :)....
F2000 rules as it have everythin other bullpubs have, and aditionaly it doesn't spit spended cases at your face unless you try to commit suicide with isn't realy a flaw... Also it has nice grenade launcher you can shot without moving hand from grip... not to mention about that aiming device with is poor, neat and cheap copy of OICW idea .....

[Glock]

The AUG ist the best Bullpup, there is no asking.
Greatings Leo

[Dutchman2]

I shot the Steyer AUG, the SA80 (L85A1) and the FAMAS, and I don't like the FAMAS at all (seen thrugh the eyes of a civilian target shooter ;) ). The sights of the FAMAS are his weakest point, and not accurate comapaired to the other two because of the sights. The frontblade and the rearsight are only 25 centimeters from eachother, and make a rude appereance. And, I fired the FAMAS during a rainy day, the huge carring handle works like a drainpipe: It collects all rainwater and blocks the view of the sights :| . Its build up from many parts, but I heard it's a relaible rifle in the field though.
The SA80 with the Susat sight is accurate, and friendly to fire. When I fired it, it functioned perfect without jams, but I visit UK troops in Germany on a range, and I noticed 3 or 4 malfunctions, wich is -in my opion- to much for a easy target training on a nice clean range, because I never saw malfunctions in my Army days with FN FAL, Diemaco C7's and Uzi's under clean range conditions.
The AUG is the best bulpup design, but also the FN2000 and FN P90 seems to work nice (I don't have any experiance with the last two though). The AUG is accurate, feels good when you hold it and has a nice optic sight. maybe theese day's, the sights are tho old, but the new types of the AUG can be issued with any optic the buyer wants to install. It's a very very accurate rifle, and I like it.

greets,

roger
The SA80 without the opticsight is also a bitch to score with. same as the FAMAS, the sights are to close to eachother.

[rob]

i must say that i think the best bullpup is the tavor.

the fn f2000 is nice but i have a certain confidence problem in the ejection system.

[Zentrum Jagdkampf]

The AUG ist the best Bullpup, there is no asking.
Greatings Leo

Me too!The AUG is the best bullpup!!!

[Pandy]

Well, here's my favorate Bullpup Rifles... and It's AMERICAN!

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn03-e.htm

!!!

woot

[ShadowNeo]

I've only ever personally fired the LSW, SA80A1, A2 and L98 (the latter 3 with Iron sights) so I don't know how they stack up against other bull pups. I do however like the look of the Famas and Aug, the Famas is something I would love to have the chance to fire p-) .

[gilgoul]

So I should say TAVOR ? ;)

Actually, I don`t know the weapon at all, never fired it, but have had some times with the FAMAS F1, and god I liked it, the concept is really cool, and despite a few flaws, that might be considered serious, is pretty reliable and accurate.
The flaws are, a VERY weak extractor, to the point that in deployement we would take an extra kit bag with those "mini" pieces in case of, the good thing being the easy stripping of the bolt to change the ambidextrious extractor, but not in a timee of stress,unless you ve got the nerves and coolness of sappers.
Second thing being the upper carying handle get a litle "loose" with time, but there are ways to avoid that.
Third, the lack of optical sight, but this might have been corected now, even without a piccatiny rail.
Overall a good weapon, But i`m dying to get a chance to fire a Tavor some day. :P

[RomanS]

fuk all the rest,
GROZA is the best

[anonymous individual]

What is so good about Groza?

[Herrmannek]

What is so good about Groza?

Its Russian :)

[perdurabo]

fuk all the rest,
GROZA is the best
this guy is a poet too!
dont know about witch is the best. Its stupid to say "the best" we could say witch has better barrels better sights etc...

[RomanS]

That is true, there is no best.
Groza is good because
Caliber 9x39, good luck wearing your armor, and hiding behind various types of cover.

No jams, accurate to 400 meters, even more deadly with silencer, and a fast rate of fire. Can be easaly equiped with GP30 Obuvka. It just slides on the lugs in 4 seconds.

[Glock]

Yes sure i forgot, all russian is best, they have the best Army and the best wepon production. Excuse me that i forgott!

[RomanS]

Yes sure i forgot, all russian is best, they have the best Army and the best wepon production. Excuse me that i forgott!

its ok, some people forget even more simpler things!

[anonymous individual]

Is 9x39 considered a rifle caliber?

[Ratamacue]

Is 9x39 considered a rifle caliber?
It would probably be considered an intermediate rifle round, given that the 7.62mm and 5.45mm rounds used by the AKM and AK-74 both have a 39mm case.

[dez000]

Never shot it :p But based on looks, 'things' i've read and national pride I must say the FN F2000 tactical.

[REMOV]

Is 9x39 considered a rifle caliber?It is special ammunition which is closer to the pistol than to intermediate cartridges. The OC-14 isn't wide spread and this is more than curiosity than real combat assault rifle. Only for specops, MVD units etc.

[perdurabo]

That is true, there is no best.
Groza is good because
Caliber 9x39, good luck wearing your armor, and hiding behind various types of cover.

No jams, accurate to 400 meters, even more deadly with silencer, and a fast rate of fire. Can be easaly equiped with GP30 Obuvka. It just slides on the lugs in 4 seconds.
its based on AK mechanizm?
i supose Groza is good in special situations like CT, but for normal soldier it is almoust useless... i think.

[REMOV]

its based on AK mechanizm?Groza (the first models) was basically an AKS-74U (take a closer look at the receiver) with additional elements.

[FDF_Hemppis]

You can always argue about the best, but the worst is without a doubt the Valmet M82 rofl

[christophe1992]

1st I think the fnf 2000 is the best together with l85A2( the problemsof this rifle are solved and its now very reliable)
2nd tavor and the aug
3) famas

[IDF_TANKER]

The only person who is qualified to answer this question is someone who actually shot all the bullpups (used them extensively, actually).

[christophe1992]

The only person who is qualified to answer this question is someone who actually shot all the bullpups (used them extensively, actually).
I'v shot a aug, l85 and the famas and i didnt like the famas.

[-Church-]

i have a quastion to ask you...
who's the best bullpup rifle in the world today???

is the Steyr AUG,GIAT FAMAS, IMI Tavor,SAR-21 ...

GIAT Industries doesn't exist anymore. After a restructuration they had the name changed to Nexter.

[Eztyga]

I like the Steyr, but then I have never fired another bullpup rifle. I have handled an SA80, but without firing it I can't make an honest comparison.

Ezy

[Jippo]

No jams, accurate to 400 meters,

:)

Subsonic rounds to 400 is of course a joke. Shooting anything subsonic past 200m is indirect fire that requires a spotter. :)

[James]

Thanks guys, this question has been eating at me for more than 4 years.

[digrar]

But have you been refreshing this topic twice a day hoping to get an answer like I have?

[Renae]

I've shot the FAMES, the AUG, THE F2000, and a SA 80. The real challenge today with Bulpups is adding on laser and optics.

I love the aug. It seems like a natural extention to the body. With some of the trigger devises out there. It becomes a champ.

The F2000 its the bomb but you have to get use to it. It does have some nice features to it. But the trigger needs help.

The Fames is ok.

THE SA 80 is a peice of junk. THough haven't shot the HK version.

The best gun out there that can take on the AUG is the Sig 551. The M16 rocks becasue its so light.

The G36 is cool but its rather heavy.

Im vexed what I would carry into battle. A Sig 551 or a AUG. Heck mabey both. Set the 551 as a sniper gun and the AUg as a entry gun. But then thats 10 pound of gun and not any ammo.

[T3ngu]

I am a civilian, i have fired the steyr on full auto, therefore i am the best person to say it is the best.

Im glad this is a new thread.

Of course im f**king not serious. Well cept the bit about firing the steyr.

[James]

Well said Tengu. p-)

[T3ngu]

Thanks Mr James.

I like being so good at all things.

[Hollis]

I am.........someone and I approve of this message.........

Maybe I will get a good night sleep now.

[maw]

fwiw, i've only fired a couple of different bullpups but i really liked the aug. the only things that i didn't like were the lack of amby ejection for mout, the trigger felt funkaay (but i'm sure i could get used to it) and the relatively slow mags changes. i'll definately buy a civvie aug a3 when they release them here in the us.

fired the civie version of the fn2000. did not like it as much as i thought i would. felt like i had a 2x4 against my shoulder - it's physically large. the ejection seemed to work fine. the accuracy was not all that, seemed like there was a lot of stuff touching the barrel. good trigger.

[digrar]

fwiw, i've only fired a couple of different bullpups but i really liked the aug. the only things that i didn't like were the lack of amby ejection for mout, the trigger felt funkaay (but i'm sure i could get used to it) and the relatively slow mags changes. i'll definately buy a civvie aug a3 when they release them here in the us.


People mention the reload time all the time, it baffles me. You mentioned not being used to the trigger, so I imagine your exposure to the aug was reasonably limited. Anyone who has worked with the weapon for a decent amount of time, will have the reload time down to as quick as any body else with any other weapon system. It's not that hard.

[maw]

People mention the reload time all the time, it baffles me. You mentioned not being used to the trigger, so I imagine your exposure to the aug was reasonably limited. Anyone who has worked with the weapon for a decent amount of time, will have the reload time down to as quick as any body else with any other weapon system. It's not that hard.

yeah, i can see that. i was turned onto the aug by giles stock of the wilderness company who is a huge aug advocate. he runs some very good carbine classes btw.
regarding the trigger, i'm kinda spoiled because all of my ar's have either a lmt 2-stage or a chip mccormick match trigger. i found the aug trigger to have a lot of travel, mushy feel and quite a fair bit of return over travel before the sear was reset. i've been told that there's an aftermarket doohickey for the aug called a trigger tamer that addresses a lot of this.
regarding mag changes, i'm used to fast mag changes with the ar using my trigger finger. i can change mags without moving my head and changing the sight picture. on the aug i tend to move my head back and tilt the rifle inwards towards the incoming mag, but first i have to first drop the empty one. none of this is too big of a deal, and once you practiced the right technique enough i'm sure the mag times would get better to the point of being negligibly close to those of an ar user.

[SilentType]

My only experience is as an owner of an, STG 556, AUG A2, and a PS90 and having fired limitedly an FS2000.

I have not fired an SA80, Tavor, of FAMAS thanks to the import restrictions my country currently has in place on even semi-automatic firearms that bear certain cosmetic features.

I'm looking forward to the Kel-tec RFB though for the simple fact that they appear to have overcome the connections issues that make bullpup triggers heavy and as some might describe "mushy."

I'm also hoping that the Magpul PDR comes out at some point with all the features they displayed with their mock-up of it at SHOT this year. The ability to have a mag release in front of the trigger would make magazine changes much faster. However, I'd want to see it have last round bolt hold open and release as well and have a trigger similiar to the Kel-Tec RFB.

[digrar]

regarding the trigger, i'm kinda spoiled because all of my ar's have either a lmt 2-stage or a chip mccormick match trigger. i found the aug trigger to have a lot of travel, mushy feel and quite a fair bit of return over travel before the sear was reset. i've been told that there's an aftermarket doohickey for the aug called a trigger tamer that addresses a lot of this.

The aug in F88 form has a woeful trigger, I don't imagine the Steyr ones are any better. You can get used to it though.

[Tribunius]

The aug in F88 form has a woeful trigger, I don't imagine the Steyr ones are any better. You can get used to it though.

True the steyr one isn't great either but the Tavor one is worse.

[SilentType]

True the steyr one isn't great either but the Tavor one is worse.

That's why I'm pretty excited about the Kel-Tec RFB. They are touting this rifle's trigger as a match grade trigger on a bullpup.

My guess is that everyone in the industry will be taking it down to see how they did it. Could lead to a revolution in the bullpup world.

[DizBukHaPeter]

Nobody got love for the Sar21?

[Irish-GNR-FF]

in my opinion its the steyr AUG. but i have only ever fired the A1 version and i don't like the built in sights which are x1.5. i would much prefer a x3 or x4 sights which would help identify targets at greater ranges...

[Irish-GNR-FF]

also the trigger on the irish AUGs Has an automatic lock out which is basically a fire selecter switch under the trigger. im not sure if the aussies have then?

[digrar]

Yeah, but no self respecting digger would willingly use it.

[Irish-GNR-FF]

I know how u feel mate. Theres nothing like putting 150 rounds down range in 5 minutes. The only problem is cleaning. I hate that gas plug

[justdoit]

Nobody got love for the Sar21?
That becoz nodody here got a chance to try out this rifle:)

[SilentType]

in my opinion its the steyr AUG. but i have only ever fired the A1 version and i don't like the built in sights which are x1.5. i would much prefer a x3 or x4 sights which would help identify targets at greater ranges...

They should build you guys the A1 Special Receivers that have the rail option for after market sights.

Wouldn't really require that much to accomplish.

[chino65]

If you have to buy a rifle with your own cash - and you can only buy one... Will you buy a bullpup?

I wouldn't.

[domokun]

I don't believe it. But I'm 1st to mention one of most obscure rifles, the G11. Caseless assault rifle with big magazine and huge rate of fire in 3rd bursts. Could add nothing more than one of most interesting designs ever.

[REMOV]

(...) I'm 1st to mention one of most obscure rifles, the G11. Caseless assault rifle with big magazine and huge rate of fire in 3rd bursts. Could add nothing more than one of most interesting designs ever.Yes, it is very interesting, ahead of its time, and an fantastic idea, but unfortunately the design is from mid-1980s and today the functionality and ergonomics of the G11K2 assault rifle is far, far behing modern designs.

For instance, do you know where is located the magazine catch in the G11K2? Another strange thing is that all - means two only, 45 rounds each (sic!) - your spare magazines are... attached to the rifle, in the pouches you have only 28 plastic reloading units 15 bullets each. I am not quite sure that lack of Picatinny rails or the shape of the buttstock will pleased you as well as the chamber checking or simple thing - cocking. I also cannot imagine of field cleaning of the G11 cuckoo clock mechanism in the field.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/REMOV/Inne/th__G11K2_01.jpg (http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/REMOV/Inne/_G11K2_01.jpg)

[davidtkl]

Try out the Sar-21. Its an excellent weapon. Ergnomics are superb.


Nobody got love for the Sar21?

[domokun]

Yes, it is very interesting, ahead of its time, and an fantastic idea, but unfortunately the design is from mid-1980s and today the functionality and ergonomics of the G11K2 assault rifle is far, far behing modern designs.

For instance, do you know where is located the magazine catch in the G11K2? Another strange thing is that all - means two only, 45 rounds each (sic!) - your spare magazines are... attached to the rifle, in the pouches you have only 28 plastic reloading units 15 bullets each. I am not quite sure that lack of Picatinny rails or the shape of the buttstock will pleased you as well as the chamber checking or simple thing - cocking. I also cannot imagine of field cleaning of the G11 cuckoo clock mechanism in the field.


As I said is/was very innovative (perhaps too innovative) design but as it wasn't fielded it's doomed to obscurity and mention in weapons history. As project prolonged during development cost for this become very high over couple decades. Trying to do something revolutionary is always very hard and it often ends up as G11 did. Operating system it self is quite simple, but I personally will never understand why they added for example that ROF "step down" ability (obvious suppressive fire capability) it complicated system even further.

Picatinny or similar rail system is in the end mostly could say minor change and ergonomics can be improved within limitations of guns basic structure.

And thanks for more info on proposed load out for users. That two magazines is bit too few in my opinion, and get more ammo pouches/mags is something that soldiers seem to do every conflict.

[REMOV]

Operating system it self is quite simpleAre you sure? ;)
but I personally will never understand why they added for example that ROF "step down" ability (obvious suppressive fire capability) it complicated system even further. But this is the main reason why the G11 was designed! The armies from 1950s till 1990s have a idee fixe about increasing the hit chances using in the mechanical way. That's why were developed multibarrel assault rifles in the SALVO or Pribor-3B projects, that's why were introduced very fast cartridges with flat trajectories in the SCHV project (which ends in 5,56 mm x 45 and AR-15/M16 assault rifle), that's why were designed flachettes fed weapons in the SPIW, Shirayev's AO-27 or Steyr ACR, that's why were created weapons with superhigh rate of fire in some burst in the ACR program (Colt ACR, G11) or in Abakan program (AN-94, TKB-971). That was the Holy Grail of the designers. The last stage of this madness was OICW program, when the designers change the way and try to give a soldier personal weapons which fires fragmentation rounds. Also the idea was the same - to increase hit probability. And in 1990s when the electronics prices dropped to the ground, and the electrooptic sights suddenly appears the whole idea suddenly becomes completly outdated. That's why now armies belives in Picatinny rails and red points, holographic sights not in the mechanical solutions.
ergonomics can be improved within limitations of guns basic structure.I am not quite sure. There is a lot of problems with the magazine change in the G11, especially when you understand the length of it, and the fact there are only two with you. Sure, you can easily drop one on the ground but then what?
That two magazines is bit too few in my opinion, and get more ammo pouches/mags is something that soldiers seem to do every conflict.The idea was to give a soldiers only two full loaded magazines with 90 rounds. Its three times more than in M16. But you can change the fourth M16's mag very fast, and in G11 you have to reload two of your mags using reloading units. It takes time.

[vor033]

If you really want to see a superb Bullpup rifle look further back to the British EM2 it was way ahead of its time and was officially adopted by the Britsh Armed forces around 1950 i think. It was well balanced and came with an Optic sight and was the response to our combat experiance in WW2

However due to the Yanks moaning about the caliber being .280 when they wanted 7.62 it was scrapped and we had to wait a number of years for the FN SLR , And typical and we finally got the 7.62 SLR and the yanks changed to 5.56 ! I think a huge shame this rifle didnt go into production it would have been superb !

For modern Bullpups i think the AUGA2 is the best with with the F2000 being a very strong second !

[Montechristo]

Try out the Sar-21. Its an excellent weapon. Ergnomics are superb.

Some say the right-side only extraction is a serious disadvantage.But is seems a well balanced weapon and cost-efficient.A question where actually the extraction is?

[matthew.manhorn]

Anyone here fired a Chinese QBZ95 before? How good is the 5.8 round?

[vor033]

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/Weapons/em2.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/Weapons/em1.jpg
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/Weapons/em2strip.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/Weapons/em2_280.jpg
from left to right: British experimental .280 (7x43mm) cartridge for EM-2; Soviet 7.62x39mm M43; US/NATO 5.56x45mm (.223 Rem); US/NATO 7.62x51mm (.308 Win)

Caliber: 7x43 mm (.280 British)
Action: Gas operated
Overall length: 889 mm
Barrel length: 623 mm
Weight: 3.41 kg with empty magazine
Rate of fire: 450 - 600 rounds per minute (depends on source)
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds

The history of the British EM-2 (Experimental Model-2) assault rifle is interesting and somewhat pitiful story. The EM-2 was born as a result of the experience with small arms, gained during the Second World War. It was obvious that the modern warfare will require the infantry to be armed with light, selective fire weapon with effective range of fire much longer than of submachine gun, but shorter than of conventional semi-automatic or bolt action rifles. This requirement effectively led to the development of the various "intermediate" cartridges. The first power to adopt this concept was the Germany, which issued in limited numbers the selective-fire weapons with intermediate cartridge (7.92x33mm Kurz) since 1942. The Soviet Union was the second to this case, developing its own intermediate cartridge in 1943 and began issuing weapons for it on limited basis since 1944 and on large scale since 1949. The Great Britain also felt the need to replace both Sten (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg38-e.htm) submachine guns and SMLE No.4 (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl04-e.htm) bolt-action rifles with more modern equipment. The research and experience clearly showed that it is entirely possible to replace both of these weapons with single new weapon, with effective range of fire of no more than 1000 yards and with selective-fire capability. This weapon, of cause, required a new cartridge, which was developed after extensive research and development. This cartridge, an "ideal" from British point of view, was of .280 caliber (7mm) and had a bottlenecked case 43 mm long. The pointed bullet weighted 9.08 g (140 grains) and had muzzle velocity of about 745 m/s (2445 fps). The rough comparison of this round against other most common modern cartridges can be found in the table below. Basically, this cartridge offered significant advantage in effective range and penetration against not only 9x19mm Luger pistol cartridge, but also against 7.92x33mm Kurz German and 7.62x39mm Soviet intermediate cartridges, producing slightly more recoil, which was still significantly less than of .303 British rifle cartridge or latter 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. This cartridge immediately attracted the attention of the Belgian company Fabrique Nationale, which at the same time worked on the advanced version of their SAFN-49 (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl09-e.htm) rifle. Canada also showed significant interest in this cartridge.

Having the "ideal" cartridge on hands, both Britain and Belgium began to develop its own assault rifles. The Belgian part of the story will be covered in the FN FAL (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24f-e.htm) article elsewhere on this site, and the British part goes right here. The Royal Small Arms Factory (RSAF) at Enfield Lock began to develop its new assault rifle in the late 1940s. The design team was led by the LTC Edward Kent-Lemon and Stefan Janson. New prototype rifles were called the EM-1 and EM-2 (Experimental Model 1 and 2) and were of similar layout and dimensions, being different mostly in shape details and controls. Both rifles were of bullpup layout, that means that the magazine and the barrel chamber are located behind the triggerguard and pistol handle. It must be noted that these rifles were not the first ever built in the bullpup layout - I know about al least one bolt action bullpup rifle dated back to post-WW1 period. The EM-2 attracted more attention, being slightly less futuristic in appearance. It was a very well balanced and laid out rifle, with comfortable controls, accurate and reliable. In 1951 the EM-2 rifle was nominally adopted for British service as "Rifle, Automatic, caliber .280, Number 9 Mark 1". Had it been put into service, the British troops could have a first class assault rifle prior to 1960, but due to the NATO standardization issues Britain followed the USA and adopted the overpowered American 7.62x51mm cartridge instead of more promising .280, and EM-2 simply could not be easily rebuilt for this round. So, Brits had to adopt another design, but this is also another story. There's also some rumors that infamous British SA80 / L85 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm) assault rifle, introduced in 1980s, was based on the EM-2 design. It is not true, since the crappy L85 has nothing in common with EM-2 except for general external "bullpup" layout.

The EM-2 rifle is a gas operated, magazine fed, selective fire rifle. It uses gas system with long piston stroke, located above the barrel. The locking system is generally similar to one found in the WW2-period German Gew.43 or in the Soviet Degtyarov DP-27 machine gun (but turned back to front). Bolt locks into the receiver by two flaps, that are pivoted at their rear to extend out of the bolt and into the locking recesses in the receiver walls. Flaps are controlled by the firing pin sleeve, coaxially located inside the hollow bolt, and the sleeve is in turn connected to the gas piston rod by the projection on the rod. The recoil spring is located at the rear part of the gas piston, above the bolt. When gun is fired, the hot power gases cause the gas piston to go to the rear. This movement first causes the firing pin sleeve to retract within the still stationary bolt, causing the locking flaps to be withdrawn from locking recesses and into the bolt. As soon as the bolt is unlocked, it begin to move back against the pressure of the return spring, ejecting the spent case and feeding the fresh round into the chamber on its return into the battery. EM-2 fires from closed bolt all the time. The firing mechanism is striker-fired, with the main spring and the sear located in the bolt. The sear is located at the bottom of the bolt and is operated by the long trigger lever, connected to the trigger. In general, this was somewhat complicated but very dust-proof, reliable and neat design.

The cocking handle is located at the right side of the weapon, on the front part of the gas piston rod, and can be removed when gun is disassembled. The safety switch is located at the front of the triggerguard and is similar in operation to one found in M1 Garand or M14 rifles, and the fire selector is of cross-bolt push-button type, and located above the pistol handle. All controls are easily reachable with firing hand. The furniture (pistol handle and forend) is made from wood, the buttplate is attached to the receiver directly and can be easily removed for field-stripping. EM-2 was fitted with optical sights, mounted on the integral carrying handle as standard. Optical sights were non-adjustable, and range adjustment capability was built into the aiming reticle picture. The emergency (backup) iron sights were also fitted - rear folding peep-hole (diopter) sight was attached to the left side of the carrying handle, and the folding front post sight was mounted on the left side of the gas block.


The Top Photos is of the EM2 the version which was adopted for issue, and the second Photo is the EM1 which as you can guess by the title was the first rifle.

Looking at these rifles now you can see the ideas that have now been used in other Bullpup Assault Rifles such as the AUG,FAMAS,SA80,SAR21 etc etc

All info from world guns website

[Marsh]

Hi,

I had an article published on these two rifles in Small Arms Review in November 2002 Vol6, No2, entitled Back to the Future: the Story of Britain's Lost Bullpups. Thanks to the good offices and help of the Royal Armouries and Pattern room at Leeds, I had the opportunity to handle prototypes of both the EM-1 and EM-2.

I was also allowed access to previously restricted information on comparative trails of the EM-2 and other contenders for the USA choice of new battle rifle and ammunition calibre. (In particular, the following document, had not been available for researchers - "Report of the Army Field Forces Board NO 3. Fort Benning Georgia. Project No 2231. Report of Joint Test of United States and United Kingdom Lightweight Rifles. October 1950").

Several different weapons and different calibres were subject to analysis. Most people with an interest in this weapon are aware of the test results from the Aberdeen Proving ground which found in favour of the T25 (fore-runner of the M14) using a .30 round. However, I was given access to politically sensitive documents from further trials carried out at Fort Benning which were much more positive about the EM-2 and in particular its .280 round. The Fort Benning documentation showed a clear preference for the British .280 round. In retrospect it would have been an ideal compromise between the stopping power of the 7.62 NATO round and the 5.62mm round which replaced it.

As far as the EM-1 and EM-2 are concerned, the EM-1 was the better design. It had superior ergonomics and better weight distribution. However it used more stamped parts in its construction and the machinery was not available in the UK. The EM-2 had a more traditional build.

Both are fine weapons. With further development, NATO could have adopted an assault rifle with an almost perfect calibre several decades ago.

cheers
Marsh

[kopema]

The Fort Benning documentation showed a clear preference for the British .280 round. In retrospect it would have been an ideal compromise between the stopping power of the 7.62 NATO round and the 5.62mm round which replaced it.

I've often thought how different the history of assault rifles would have been if MacArthur had not insisted on the 30-06 round for the M1. The original Army specification was for 6.5 mm, and the original Garand and Pederson designs were 7mm.

As with the tests you mentioned, the smaller rounds significantly outperformed the larger ones. But MacArthur vetoed any change.

[3rdMillhouse]

You will soon learn that asking for the best anything on a forum wont always get an objective answer....

For instance i love the Steyr AUG, but Im Australian, our army uses these...

Also, best for what?

How 'bout killing???

[damaja]

Not the SA80 for sure! Even the L22 sucks.

[oldsoak]

I actually like the L22. I certainly prefered it for some of the jobs I do.
Had a bash off one with a holo sight as opposed to the SUSAT - very nice.