Fahrenheit 9/11 -onlyIfYouWatchedIt-

[afrographX]

I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and I have to say it's really a strong movie. Some may call it propaganda. In my opinion it's a good piece of anti-propaganda against all the **** Bush and his neocons are selling as truth.

Please only replies from people who really watched the film!!!

[Dennis G]

Raise your hands if you’re easily brainwashed

[Moledet]

I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and I have to say it's really a strong movie. Some may call it propaganda. In my opinion it's a good piece of anti-propaganda against all the **** Bush and his neocons are selling as truth.

Please only replies from people who really watched the film!!!
Only idiots will go to watch this movie and fund Moore's next movie, that's the only movie that I'm going to download from the internet.

[afrographX]

@moledet do it and watch it beofre talking ****
@dennis g put your hand down again

[chauncy republicans]

Raise your hands if you’re easily brainwashed
Says the future police officer. :cantbeli:

[TFG]

I thought it was pretty cheesy, I expected better with all the hype around it. If you really think about what you are being shown, you can see what kind of picture MM is trying to paint, and its a ****ty one. It didn't change my political views, which are still about in the middle of left and right. Think about what you've seen and you can see all the flaws in the points Moore is trying to make.

Shoulda seen Dodgeball instead.

[n.ignomo]

I saw the movie and there is two very different ways to watch it. Politically, if you d'ont like Bush you like 9/11. BUT, seeing it as a movie like many others, it sucks, scenario isn't the greatest of all time, some narration would be better unheard....

[UkrainianAmerican]

Raise your hands if you’re easily brainwashed
Says the future police officer. :cantbeli:
???????????????????????????????????? :|

[el borracho]

It is a strong film. Most of what was said in the film I have heard before...and is readily available to those who do research. I wasn't outrightly convinced on a lot of things (I lean to the left anyway, so I don't need that much convincing), but I hope that people of all political beliefs see the film. It probably wont sway those on the far right, but what I hope it does is at least encourage those in the middle (probably the majority of people) who have doubts or questions about the current administration and get them to evaluate current events and political agendas a little more, and ultimately find their own conclusion rather that be persuaded by strong words from either side.

[chauncy republicans]

Raise your hands if you’re easily brainwashed
Says the future police officer. :cantbeli:
???????????????????????????????????? :|
Yes.....

[Dennis G]

@moledet do it and watch it beofre talking ****
@dennis g put your hand down again

I think you've already proven that you're a brainwashed sheep by posting this thread. I will watch the movie but I will not pay to see that ****.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm



Raise your hands if you’re easily brainwashed
Says the future police officer. :cantbeli:
???????????????????????????????????? :|

He is trying to be a smart ass, because I'm a LEO and chauncy has some issues with that whole idea.

lalala

[KML]

I just saw it today as well, a really powerful film. It's not propaganda, just facts.

If you haven'nt seen it you should.
And if your so ignorant that you believe you'd be brainwashed if you went and saw it... well what does that say.

so go see it and learn the truth, Bush is one ****ing stupid manipulater!

[hood]

I saw the movie the other day (off the internet) and it showed me literally ZERO that I hadn't seen or known about before. So much of the film is Moore trying to show us stuff to shock us, but to anyone who's knowledgeable about current events, none of it is shocking or surprising. He spends so much time showing Bush as a successful business man that for a while I thought this was a pro-Bush movie. The question is, what's the alternative? Do you really think that Kerry, who's family is collectively worth over 1 billion dollars is going to be any different? Do you really think a person who's been a senator, the full time target of lobbyists for so many years, is going to not have his own business-tied agenda? Moore is appealing to the naive and yes men (or women) of this country; people who are willing to believe anyone who shouts the loudest.

[hood]

I just saw it today as well, a really powerful film. It's not propaganda, just facts.


Then you have no idea what facts are. So much of the film is where Moore just states things as fact even though they're blatant opinion. He even stated on one of his news show interviews that this movie is NOT a documentary, and that it is NOT just a fact piece. He himself said that this movie was an editorial.

[American Patriot]

Michael 'Fatass' Moore has no clue..

[KML]

no my friend,
you don't have a clue





and it's sad really

[Dennis G]

no my friend,
you don't have a clue





and it's sad really

The sad truth is that believe that Liberal Drivel. It is just Moore twisted opinion. Educate yourself. The first step is DONT USE MOORE AS A SOURCE OTHER THEN FINDING OUT WHERE THE BEST FRIED FOODS ARE AT!

[Ratamacue]

no my friend,
you don't have a clue

and it's sad really
Typical frontrange Colorado liberalism.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

I just saw it today as well, a really powerful film. It's not propaganda, just facts.

If you haven'nt seen it you should.
And if your so ignorant that you believe you'd be brainwashed if you went and saw it... well what does that say.

so go see it and learn the truth, Bush is one f*** stupid manipulater!

rofl rofl Ok, buddy!


Hood, very good points!

[szr]

I don't like Bush and won't be voting for him in November, but I though the movie was terrible. I found it to be silly and patronising. In the end while all the fools in the theater were clapping etc. I was left wondering why I payed $10 to see a movie made by that joker. It was insulting to the intelligence of anyone with a keen interest of world affairs. If he had just made a compilation of damning quotes by the president and the people who surround him, it might have been compelling. But Moore gets carried away with trying to make connections where there isn't more to be seen that what is already apparent. The experience was further degraded when Moore gratuitously used his trademark Moore devices. Anyway, in my opinion, infront of an informed audience, Moore is his own worst enemy in trying to communicate his opinion.

Just my .02

[Mark Sman]

Leni Riefenstahl did a better job at this sort of thing.

MM's film was pedantic and full of holes big enough to drive him through. I was sitting there going WTF is he talking about. I'm getting a copy of this so that I can go through it again on my time and with the record in front of me.

A lot of what I though was BS has already been called out, but I want to check it against the facts myself, and replay it in context of the film.


Typical frontrange Colorado liberalism.

I wish, this sort of arrogance is widespread and nationwide. "If you disagree with me you're an idiot" is tired old liberal BS that I remember from way the heck back when. The presumption of right and righteousness is annoying.

[mobster]

Hood is 100% correct, it's not based on facts.
www.IHateJohnKerry.net

[Kilgor]

Do you really think that Kerry, who's family is collectively worth over 1 billion dollars is going to be any different? Do you really think a person who's been a senator, the full time target of lobbyists for so many years, is going to not have his own business-tied agenda? .

Bingo... thanks

But there isnt a S in john kerry so we cant substitute the $ like in Bu$h.

[KML]

Like what parts, have you stupid people even seen it?

[Ratamacue]

I love it, people disagree with you, so they're automatically stupid.

[Kilgor]

I love it, people disagree with you, so they're automatically stupid.

Or a neo con uber zionist.

Even the people who liked BFC said this film isnt as good.

[hood]

KML, since nothing in that movie was surprising nor convincing of anything to me, why don't you start off with what you felt was specifically convincing or damning of Bush. Something that is different than any other President.

[Mark Sman]

Like what parts, have you stupid people even seen it?

Gotta love it, the guy does what I was talking about not FIVE MINUTES after I post. Thats all for me on this one.

I'll leave it on "Trust, but verify."

[Kilgor]

KML, since nothing in that movie was surprising nor convincing of anything to me, why don't you start off with what you felt was specifically convincing or damning of Bush. Something that is different than any other President.

Its like what the local current afairs show do. Post sinister looking footage, heavily edited, some dark music, damming comments and bingo you can trash anyone your heart desires. The audience takes the emotional content directly to heart.

[Vance]

Like what parts, have you stupid people even seen it?

Gotta love it, the guy does what I was talking about not FIVE MINUTES after I post. Thats all for me on this one.
rofl

[Kitsune]

Hmmm, the rumours of Hoods demise were slightly exaggerated, it seems...

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Like what parts, have you stupid people even seen it?

A good example is how Bush is mocked for continuing to read a story to the children for 7 mins after he is told of the towers being hit. I'm sure it would look real good for the president to go running out of the room right after he got the news. It would have caused panic, no doubt.

[szr]

It would have looked much better, however, if instead of remaining silent, he passed some orders off to Andy Card. He also could have calmly gotten up, apologised for having to leave early and calmly left. People would have understood, considering by that time, anyone who was watching the news already, had seen the no. 2 plane hit the southern tower live on TV.

[Kilgor]

No... at the time.. **** was hitting the fan and I bet his minders were probably wondering what the hell to do.

Even if bush wanted to jump out the window screaming "we are all gonna die", his minders would have been the ones planning what to do next.

The 7 minutes wait might not have been his choice

[szr]

That's where you exercise leadership. You're the POTUS. If you oder someone to do something they're going to make it happen. If there was a question of SS not wanting to move the pres while they still didn't know what was going on, that still didn't prevent the president from going to another room, gathering his aides and making contact with his cabinet to get things rolling. At the very least he could have used that 7 mins to get up to speed on exactly what was know at the time, even if not much was known, and what his options were. That way he would have had a running start, when the SS finally did get the pres moving, and in the air.

[Mark Sman]

Ummm, 7 minutes.

Anyone here know how staff command works?

Anyone?

Cause' MM sure as hell doesn't.

In those 7 minutes, his staff was trying to figure out WTF was going on. The situation was anything but clear.

At the same time they are trying to do the situation analysis they are preparing to bug out for a secure location.

Pop quiz ohh brainwashed MMites.
The **** has just hit the fan.
Do you

A. Start handing out orders even though you haven't the slightest clue what the situation report is?

B. Leave, thus tiping your hand to anyone watching TV (And everyone knew where he was going to be that day).

C. Start looking for interns to spend "final moments" with. (Operation Clinton)

D. Chill until you get a signal from staff that the SITREP is in, then excuse yourself and get on with it.

Bitching about seven minutes in a situation where the filmamker actually has no idea what is going on with the staff. What a joke. It takes MM longer than 7 minutes to decide what to eat.

Incidentally, what is Michael Moore's middle name? I figure if we had all three letters it would standarize the naming convention, ya know, like UBL.

I know I said I would STFU, but its hard.

[szr]

What's Michael Moore got to do with any of this? :|

Edit: Oh yeah. Fahrenheit 9/11 must have sucked so much i forgot this thread was about that movie. rofl

[FinnishMF]

What's Michael Moore got to do with any of this? :|

It will have an effect to GWB:s election campaign ;)

Come on, it was the most watched movie of last weekend :)

[M1A2U2]

I like how michael moore fails to mention that his hero, richard clarke was the one who let the bin laden family leave the country when all the plains were grounded. But i guess thats not important right KLM?

[FinnishMF]

http://www.sundayherald.com/43167

I like this gay ;)

[hood]

Michael Moore is promoting the piracy of Farenheit 9/11..."

Woohoo... Michael Moore cares about the law when it suits him, but when it comes to the film he made, screw the production crew, screw the movie theater owners, screw the duplication facilities, and screw the people that made it happen. All this guy cares about is himself and his own agenda. He doesn't care who he steps on or slanders, as long as he gets what he wants. Isn't he doing what he's accusing Bush of?

[FinnishMF]

Michael Moore is promoting the piracy of Farenheit 9/11..."

Woohoo... Michael Moore cares about the law when it suits him, but when it comes to the film he made, screw the production crew, screw the movie theater owners, screw the duplication facilities, and screw the people that made it happen. All this guy cares about is himself and his own agenda. He doesn't care who he steps on or slanders, as long as he gets what he wants. Isn't he doing what he's accusing Bush of?
Moore does all that but in much smaller scale :)

[Russian Texan]

Watched it on Saturday. The movie is clearly biased against republicans and promotes voting for democrats, but who cares, as far as I am concerned - 99.9% of politiciaans are lying scum, regardless of race, creed, origin or political alliance.

Again, movie is biased, but facts are very stubborn things...

Was very interesting to see "higly trained professional" army in action.
Recruitment process of the "few and proud" was priceless... :lol: Kinda gives a totally new outlook on a "professional" military and people its made out of.

Biased commentaries of MM aside, the movie is very funny (literaly) and encourages thinking process. Important thing is to keep an open mind.
Definitely going to see it again, may be even tomorrow.

[usa320]

I finally got around to watching it...

What a load of horse****.

[tuckerhat]

delete me

[tuckerhat]

Please only replies from people who really watched the film!!!

If you love it so much watch it again. I say this not as a sarcastic comment but rather a genuine suggestion. As you watch again, look out for a common technique Moore uses. This technique, or more accurately: a trick, is to cause the viewer to reach certain conclusions without stating the conclusion himself. Or state the conclusion, provide misleading examples, and then restate the same conclusion. This way, when something is called inaccurate later on all he has to do is say, "I never said that".

A clear example of this buffering technique is his segment on the Patriot Act.

1)A 4 part attack, his first "clip" serves to introduce the Patriot Act as a vehicle for over zealous policing.

2)His next clip is of "Peace Fresno", a group which is portrayed as a comely group of 40-60 year olds. They are investigated by the Sheriff's dept, and an undercover deputy is sent in. This is a image of one of their rallies, notice the sign calling the WTC attacks staged by the Bush Regime :roll:


http://www.indybay.org/uploads/550_the_march_begins.jpg

3) The third clip is of an elderly man that is questioned by the FBI after he makes statements that are anti-Bush and anti-Afghanistan I believe. Moore makes the assertion that the FBI is questioning this poor old man just cause he made a political comment. (sidenote: when the FBI gets a terror tip they WILL come knocking. this just shows the idiocy of the tipper, not the FBI)

4) another clip of a politician denouncing the Patriot Act. If I remember correctly its the one when the politician says no one read it :roll:

Ok now, lets ASS-U-ME 2 and 3 are completely valid examples. The viewer comes away thinking, "gee the patriot act is leading to a police state! if these poor middle-aged white folks are being hassled!" Now THINK. What the hell does 2 and 3 have to do with the Patriot Act??? To the casual viewer (ie the majority of moviegoers) Moore has just shown the abuses that are caused by Patriot Act. But in fact Moore did the old bait n' switch, right before their eyes.

This is NOT an isolated incident. Moore is constantly confusing then leading the viewer to pre-determined conclusions, conclusions which are not backed up by the movie's facts.

Im not going to even go into it, but his segment on the military just makes my blood boil. Ill talk about it later.

[Fargin]

Anyone finacing their candidacy for US presidency(sp/gr?) end of owning some major favours. Everyone's a croock or a victim, who'd you rather have leading your country?

Kerry/Bush does it really matter that much?

p-)

[usa320]

Yes- because Bush, like him or not, has a solid, clearly defined policy and set of beliefs and morals.

John Kerry just says whatever pleases the media at the moment...only to contradict that statement the next day.

[Fargin]

I'd like to see Kerry win, but only because I'm a leftie. I believe whoever wins will have their hands tied with IOUs.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Haven't seen it. Don't ever intend to.

But if I did have an opinion on the
movie, it would go something like this:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens

I know, I know already mentioned here and here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17836
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17886

but needs to be repeated as often as possible.

Maybe if everyone circulates these links, we could counteract
some of the enthusiasm for this propaganda piece.

[Milkman]

Michael Moore doesn't have anything credible to say. He doesn't give a rats ass about Bush, he just wants to make money, and by creating a controversial *cough*documentary*cough* that all of the Liberals and curious onlookers love only adds to his fortune. I wonder, what is his personal wealth estimated at?

[tuckerhat]

afrographX, you gonna come back and reply to the more intelligible posts?

[afrographX]

this thread was meant to collect opinions about this movie (from people who really watched it). So everybody has an own opinion and after following this forum for some months I think it's really senseless to try to convince people of certain things. Most discussions here end like WWI, in endless static warfare. That's why I only want to make a few comments.


Most of what was said in the film I have heard before...and is readily available to those who do research.
I exprienced the same, the general message of Fahrenheit 9/11 corresponds a lot to my own views, which doesn't mean that I believe everything said in Moore's film. For instance the election thing. In my opinion Al gore is the legitime President but Moore's way to conclude this may not really be suffiecient for a good argumentation.


I think you've already proven that you're a brainwashed sheep by posting this thread. i love this type of constructive comments, this **** keeps the forum alive. **** you.


Leni Riefenstahl did a better job at this sort of thing. I don't get the point. Do you want to say that Riefenstahl made better propaganda or what? Actually her movies hadn't real political content she got critized for promoting the image of the human being of the nazi regime.


Watched it on Saturday. The movie is clearly biased against republicans and promotes voting for democrats, but who cares, as far as I am concerned - 99.9% of politiciaans are lying scum, regardless of race, creed, origin or political alliance. The fact that Moore's film is so openly against the Bush-adminastration lets some viewers conclude it would be pro-democratic or pro-kerry. And it is certainly easy for democrats to profit from the movie and to instrumentalize this film for their own purpose. But the movie alone does not directly support the democrats.



Again, movie is biased, but facts are very stubborn things...

Was very interesting to see "higly trained professional" army in action.
Recruitment process of the "few and proud" was priceless... Kinda gives a totally new outlook on a "professional" military and people its made out of. I liked this aspect of the film very much because it illustrates the unequal represnatation of the diferent groups of society in the US military. Which is btw not only a US-specific problem but something you can find in every army.


Or state the conclusion, provide misleading examples, and then restate the same conclusion.

This is NOT an isolated incident. Moore is constantly confusing then leading the viewer to pre-determined conclusions, conclusions which are not backed up by the movie's facts.

You are certainly right when saying that some of the conclusions made in Moore's movie aren't suffieciently backed by the facts he is presenting. But you have to consider that this is a movie produced to entertain and appeal to the masses. His success is based on this. So argumentation is on a pretty simple niveau. But I think it's pretty impossible to deal with such a subject in a 120min film on a really profound level. Perhaps you could do this with one of the numerous aspects mentioned but not with all of them.
This film can not be seen as a profound essay about the Bush administration but as a piece of docutainment which doesn't has the demand to offer a strong logical line of argumentation.

[anonymous individual]

Way to go, afrographX. Using profanity is the best to have a discussion with people. :cantbeli:

[tuckerhat]

Or state the conclusion, provide misleading examples, and then restate the same conclusion.

This is NOT an isolated incident. Moore is constantly confusing then leading the viewer to pre-determined conclusions, conclusions which are not backed up by the movie's facts.

You are certainly right when saying that some of the conclusions made in Moore's movie aren't suffieciently backed by the facts he is presenting. But you have to consider that this is a movie produced to entertain and appeal to the masses.

so you're saying that his conclusions are correct but the facts he uses are false? :roll: im sorry but that is just silly. If he had concrete evidence, why not use it? Simply because he doesnt have it. NOT because it wouldnt be entertaining.

[tuckerhat]

nvm

[tuckerhat]

But I think it's pretty impossible to deal with such a subject in a 120min film on a really profound level.

you'd be amazed at what REAL documentaries can do in 120 min. Plain and simple, Moore is bamboozling the public, exploiting their hatred of bush to make $$$. If anyone is being motivated by the all mighty dollar its Moore.

[afrographX]

@anonymous individual which part of my statement is profane?
@tuckerhat

so you're saying that his conclusions are correct but the facts he uses are false? im sorry but that is just silly. If he had concrete evidence, why not use it? Simply because he doesnt have it. NOT because it wouldnt be entertaining.

I said that I agree with most of the statements Moore makes in his movie. The reason is not that his film convinced me but that I made that conclusions for myself. The reason he used the facts he used may be that those fitted best into the concept of the movie. Nobody would want to see a movie where some hundred lines of text from different UN reports or something else are cited. You need examples you can transform into a short and understandable film sequence.


you'd be amazed at what REAL documentaries can do in 120 min. Plain and simple, Moore is bamboozling the public, exploiting their hatred of bush to make $$$. If anyone is being motivated by the all mighty dollar its Moore.

no other documentary has ever been as succesfull as Moore's movie. Reason may be, as I already explained, the speical style of this movie.

Concerning your attempt to display Moore as the greedy and evil king of comercialism: Moore was one of the few who managed to spread some more critical ideas concerning the Bush-administration and who could reach a lot of people with it. His third movie can be seen in this Anti-Bush tradition. After his second movie a large audience opened up towards Moore, why not use the chance and continue spreading Anti Bush stuff in order to mobalize more people against the regime in Washington. Moore would have been an idiot if he did not make this movie. And he, as everybody else, will certainly be happy about the profit he makes with his movies. What's wrong about it?

[Midtown]

Im not trying to mock you or anything, but so far everything I've seen you post has told me nothing, except that your a gigantic Tool. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying I post consistantly intelligent ****, because I dont. But like a woman can recognize a rich man, I can recognize that your a tool. Watch out for that socket wrench. I dont normally reccomend this, but you should go smoke pot. Just do it away from the toolbox. ****s flammable in there.

[tuckerhat]

You need examples you can transform into a short and understandable film sequence.

are you saying its ethical to sacrifice the truth as long as in the end people come to the right conclusion? in other words, the ends justify the means? Umm, I think people are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions. If you agree with Moore's distortion of the truth, why dont we just brainwash people... just as long as they come to the right conclusion. Heck why not have video of thousands of dead puppies in the middle of time square and say Bush killed them for oil and his greedy purposes... according to your assertions this would be fine because in the end people will conclude "Bush kills for oil and money"


no other documentary has ever been as succesfull as Moore's movie. Reason may be, as I already explained, the speical style of this movie.

Britney Spears is very successful. Whats your point? The monetary success of the movie has no correlation to the truth of the movie.


Concerning your attempt to display Moore as the greedy and evil king of comercialism: Moore was one of the few who managed to spread some more critical ideas concerning the Bush-administration and who could reach a lot of people with it.

So greed motive is good? Once again you are saying the ends justify the means. Let me turn that around: Lets assume Bush is motivated by greed. Who cares! Just as long as we're safe :roll:


After his second movie a large audience opened up towards Moore, why not use the chance and continue spreading Anti Bush stuff in order to mobalize more people against the regime in Washington.

What the success of Bowling showed Moore was the publics acceptance of deceit and lies as the truth and the publics willingness to pay $10 for garbage. Britney Spears has crappy music and shes a million times more successful than Moore.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

It's not a documentary, if you look at the definition of a documentary, it doesn't fall under it. Also, Mr. Moore himself said it was not a documentary, more of an editorial piece, those words out of his mouth. He doesn't support the democratic party? Maybe thats why he is a registered democrat in New York?

[anonymous individual]

i love this type of constructive comments, this **** keeps the forum alive. f*** you.

That is the profanity. The quote contains an irony as well.

[Mark Sman]

Yes, I was saying that Leni Riefenstahl was better at making propaganda films.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Yep, I finally saw it and for free I might add.
As for my opinion, it’s pretty much typical Moore. It’s his standard marketing for his target audience and the curious passerby who might eventually fall for it and become another consumer of his product. To MM, truth is not important, only money and adulation.
In other words, it’s propaganda to feed his ego.

[Dennis G]

I just viewed the film myself free thanks hood ;), All I can say is I just reinforces my pervious beliefs, Garbage pure liberal drivel trash, Moore gives all liberals a bad name.
Afrographx it’s sad really that you are stupid enough to swallow that ****. What a sheep, its ok you’re not alone. Some day when you’re older you will understand. In till then read and do research for yourself unless what ever education system you spawned from did not give you that ability and just let you fall though the cracks which I’m thinking is the case considering Mike Moore is your fact check. :roll:

[Nizark]

I guess not everyone read the 'only if you saw it' header at the beginning of this post.

[chauncy republicans]

I guess not everyone read the 'only if you saw it' header at the beginning of this post.
They dont care...These morons get off on insulting Moore and his fans, it gives them the sense of power and intelligence their normal every day life does'nt provide them.

[chauncy republicans]

In till then read and do research for yourself unless what ever education system you spawned from did not give you that ability and just let you fall though the cracks which I’m thinking is the case considering Mike Moore is your fact check. :roll:
I wonder what education system taught you how to write sentences?



BTW Is the only argument you can produce an insult on somebodys intelligence? Why is Micheal Moore a liar, what did he lie about, how is his liberal slant on things different from Fox news' conservative slant? Can you even argue your point effectively, against somebody who actually knows what he is arguing about, or do you just spew re-gurgitated conservative rhetoric mixed with a few clever insults? I'm dying[i] to know...

[tuckerhat]

Why is Micheal Moore a liar, what did he lie about, how is his liberal slant on things different from Fox news' conservative slant?

not trying to get between u and Dennis G but merely address your comments.

lieing != slant

Here are some in-depth looks at the "lies".

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/ThisWeek/Entertainment/michael_moore040620-1.html

[chauncy republicans]

or do you just spew re-gurgitated conservative rhetoric

[tuckerhat]

or do you just spew re-gurgitated conservative rhetoric

umm did u read my first post where I gave my own take on the movie? Those links were merely further reading

in case you are unable to find my earlier post:




....

A clear example of this buffering technique is his segment on the Patriot Act.

1)A 4 part attack, his first "clip" serves to introduce the Patriot Act as a vehicle for over zealous policing.

2)His next clip is of "Peace Fresno", a group which is portrayed as a comely group of 40-60 year olds. They are investigated by the Sheriff's dept, and an undercover deputy is sent in. This is a image of one of their rallies, notice the sign calling the WTC attacks staged by the Bush Regime :roll:


http://www.indybay.org/uploads/550_the_march_begins.jpg

3) The third clip is of an elderly man that is questioned by the FBI after he makes statements that are anti-Bush and anti-Afghanistan I believe. Moore makes the assertion that the FBI is questioning this poor old man just cause he made a political comment. (sidenote: when the FBI gets a terror tip they WILL come knocking. this just shows the idiocy of the tipper, not the FBI)

4) another clip of a politician denouncing the Patriot Act. If I remember correctly its the one when the politician says no one read it :roll:

Ok now, lets ASS-U-ME 2 and 3 are completely valid examples. The viewer comes away thinking, "gee the patriot act is leading to a police state! if these poor middle-aged white folks are being hassled!" Now THINK. What the hell does 2 and 3 have to do with the Patriot Act??? To the casual viewer (ie the majority of moviegoers) Moore has just shown the abuses that are caused by Patriot Act. But in fact Moore did the old bait n' switch, right before their eyes.

This is NOT an isolated incident. Moore is constantly confusing then leading the viewer to pre-determined conclusions, conclusions which are not backed up by the movie's facts.

[DPGLAW]

I hope someone kills moore....I think that it would be really ironic, and also the only time a terrorist attack would be funny, but if a terroist attack killed Moore, that would be funny...kind of ironic......since america is really the terrorist and not the country fighting terror for basically the whole world (with the exception of our allies)...but I almost forg0ot, according to that fat ****- we are the terrorists

[chauncy republicans]

I did'nt read your post at first, but now that I've read it I must say it was a good read. Though how is Micheal Moore's style of leading viewers to pre-determined conlusions different from Fox news'?

[chauncy republicans]

I hope someone kills moore....I think that it would be really ironic, and also the only time a terrorist attack would be funny, but if a terroist attack killed Moore, that would be funny...kind of ironic......since america is really the terrorist and not the country fighting terror for basically the whole world (with the exception of our allies)...but I almost forg0ot, according to that fat ****- we are the terrorists
You hope somebody what? Kills Moore and spits in the face of those who fought and died to bring "Freedom of Speach" to our country? Way to support the troops. :cantbeli:

[tuckerhat]

Though how is Micheal Moore's style of leading viewers to pre-determined conlusions different from Fox news'?

I don't have cable so I can't intelligently comment on that. :oops:

[chauncy republicans]

Though how is Micheal Moore's style of leading viewers to pre-determined conlusions different from Fox news'?

I don't have cable so I can't intelligently comment on that. :oops:
Well from what I can gather off of an internet forum, you've already shown your quite intelligent. :)

[KML]

What did moore lie about?

[OB Kenobi]

Haven't seen it yet, except for some previews, but I hear it is an excellent movie and has become the highest grossing documentary in history. Could be up for an oscar too.

http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard_print.html

[ShotOver]

Pfft, an Oscar? that **** isnt worth and Oscar.

[Mark Sman]

What did moore lie about?

Well alot of people have already dealt with that in this thread if you want to back up and read the posts, but here is another link.

http://www.centigrade911.com/

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Fox news does have somewhat of a conservative slant, but so what! Most of the other stations are liberal as hell, they don't even show any other view points besides their own! At least Fox as the decency to show both sides of the story most of the time.

[FallenAngel]

Haven't seen it yet, except for some previews, but I hear it is an excellent movie and has become the highest grossing documentary in history. Could be up for an oscar too.

http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard_print.html

IT'S NOT A DOCUMENTARY!!! Good God...Moore himself said it's not one, but rather an opinion-piece.


Pfft, an Oscar? that **** isnt worth and Oscar.

Niether was "Bowling for Columbine" but hey, Hollywood leans left- what can you do?

[afrographX]

Im not trying to mock you or anything, but so far everything I've seen you post has told me nothing, except that your a gigantic Tool. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying I post consistantly intelligent ****, because I dont. But like a woman can recognize a rich man, I can recognize that your a tool. Watch out for that socket wrench. I dont normally reccomend this, but you should go smoke pot. Just do it away from the toolbox. ****s flammable in there.

lol just because i have a different opinion than you, you're insulting me. and what is a tool ?

[afrographX]

You need examples you can transform into a short and understandable film sequence.

are you saying its ethical to sacrifice the truth as long as in the end people come to the right conclusion? in other words, the ends justify the means? Umm, I think people are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions. If you agree with Moore's distortion of the truth, why dont we just brainwash people... just as long as they come to the right conclusion. Heck why not have video of thousands of dead puppies in the middle of time square and say Bush killed them for oil and his greedy purposes... according to your assertions this would be fine because in the end people will conclude "Bush kills for oil and money"


no other documentary has ever been as succesfull as Moore's movie. Reason may be, as I already explained, the speical style of this movie.

Britney Spears is very successful. Whats your point? The monetary success of the movie has no correlation to the truth of the movie.


Concerning your attempt to display Moore as the greedy and evil king of comercialism: Moore was one of the few who managed to spread some more critical ideas concerning the Bush-administration and who could reach a lot of people with it.

So greed motive is good? Once again you are saying the ends justify the means. Let me turn that around: Lets assume Bush is motivated by greed. Who cares! Just as long as we're safe :roll:


After his second movie a large audience opened up towards Moore, why not use the chance and continue spreading Anti Bush stuff in order to mobalize more people against the regime in Washington.

What the success of Bowling showed Moore was the publics acceptance of deceit and lies as the truth and the publics willingness to pay $10 for garbage. Britney Spears has crappy music and shes a million times more successful than Moore.

hmm I'm still searching for some real content in your post, can't find anything

[pinkeye]

if nothing else, moore's latest merely proves that the american political system is broken from a to z.


Michael Moore, Alas
Todd Gitlin
1 - 7 - 2004


America’s corroded politics, benighted democracy, scandalous history and pliant media, have created a monster. Todd Gitlin on Fahrenheit 9/11 and Michael Moore, “the master demagogue an age of demagoguery made”.


André Gide, when asked in 1905 whom he considered the greatest French poet of the 19th century, is said to have replied: “Victor Hugo, hélas!”


But now a pause for a moment of conscience. Let intellect have its due. Moore cuts plenty of corners, so how good can that be? Compelling? Useful? Moore specializes in hodgepodge. He jokes his way past the rough edges. He’s neither journalist nor documentarian, for he doesn’t set out to discover what he doesn’t already know. To patronize Michael Moore by calling him useful is to give him a pass for shoddy work, sloppy insinuations, emotional blackmail and all–around demagoguery.

He’s an entertainer (when it suits him) whose brush is so broad, at times, as to coat all evidence and logic with bursts of sensational color. His chief method is the insinuating juxtaposition. Presto, proof by association. Fahrenheit 9/11, his election year release, is like a beer commercial. When you see the gorgeous women drinking the beer, the subterranean layer of your cortex is supposed to think: if I drink, I get. This deep layer is protected by the more deliberate thought: hey, it’s all in good fun. Bush–haters can say, I knew it! Moore can say, I don’t do proofs, I do provocations.

I could go on and on in this vein – some have – with examples. Here are four:


Moore implies that a reason why Bush invaded Afghanistan was to boost UNOCAL’s prospects for building a pipeline there, for Zalmay Khalilzad once consulted for UNOCAL, supporting the Taliban then, and so did Hamid Karzai, and anyway, the Taliban visited the U. S. in March 2001 and Bush made nice, while the Taliban representative made a sexist remark. Stipulated: UNOCAL wanted a pipeline. Say it still does. Does that make UNOCAL a cause of the war? Or the cause? Might there be any others? Moore doesn’t say. “You can see where this is leading,” he says, but he doesn’t have to say it out loud. It’s Conspiracy Lite. He doesn’t attempt to reconcile his sneer at that war with his disdain for the Taliban or with former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke’s sound–bite that the intervention was “slow and small.” He doesn’t have to. Argument isn’t his franchise.

Moore shows shoddy airport security in action and implies (mainly the cute way, with questions) that shaky airport security was intended to amp up American fear in order to sell the Iraq war. So do we want more intrusive security, or less; or is security all shuck–and–jive, a John Ashcroft ploy?

Moore shows Saddam’s pre–war Iraq as a land of cheer, kite–flying and Ferris wheels. Iraq is “a nation that has never attacked us.” (He can’t say the same of Afghanistan, so he doesn’t.) Saddam Hussein – sans WMD, sans al–Qaida collaboration, sans imminent threat, but very much avec torture and tyranny – might just as well have been some mustachio’d clown.

Moore shows Bush and his honchos being made up for television. Can you beat these phonies? But when Moore was boosting Ralph Nader in the 2000 campaign and assuring his public that Tweedlegore = Tweedlebush, was he not made up for the cameras? Was Nader not powdered? If Paul Wolfowitz uses saliva to caress his pompadour into shape, ugh, but what does gross conduct have to do with the neocon view of the world?
And then again –

Sorry, but before this vein goes one more inch, conscience must interrupt. Isn’t all the indignation about Michael Moore unseemly, to say the least, from those who’ve been rather restrained about Bush’s long list of deceptions? Then again, Moore makes thunderous propaganda, all right, but it’s our propaganda, at last, and much of it is right. He’s got more in his arsenal than cheap shots. He’s a not–so–secret weapon against the bully propaganda machine called the White House, which sold a war – a war – on delusional grounds. With jokes, outtakes, hissable villains, the mother of a dead American soldier from Flint, Michigan – a woman who could make Donald Rumsfeld weep – and rhetorical questions, and insinuating music, and bomb damage footage, and whatever else it takes, Moore gets people who don’t follow antiwar websites to see Iraqi casualties, usually invisible and countless, not to mention a bereaved mother, at length. Don’t some means justify some ends – specifically, the end of impelling people to wonder about Bush, the Saudis, the facts of the Iraqi expedition, and the class structure of the armed forces?

Look at some of the evidence of Bush’s insularity, cluelessness, and illegitimacy that Moore puts on display:


Bush was catapulted into the White House thanks to the family gift of Florida and the intervention of his party’s favorites on the Supreme Court. You’ve probably heard this before. Still, given the momentousness of those events and the power of the memory hole, the point can’t be made too often.

Moore revels in slapstick shots of Bush, especially on vacation much of 2001, down through September 10, including August 6, when the CIA briefed him that bin Laden wanted to attack inside the United States. On another occasion, Bush intones against terror, then whips out his golf club and crows to the supine press (which would never let the rest of us in on the banter): “Now watch this drive.”

Bush in Florida on 11 September, after hearing about the second plane attack on the World Trade Towers, reads a kids’ story aloud (Moore says it’s a book called “My Pet Goat” but there’s some doubt whether it’s a whole book, if you care) and stares into space for seven minutes. To say the least, it shows Bush is “in over his head,” said the talk show idol–demon Howard Stern. Some things are right even if Howard Stern says so.

Moore brandishes Craig Unger’s argument in House of Bush, House of Saud about Bush I and II ties to the Saudi chiefs (more intimate by far than Saddam’s “ties” to al–Qaida & Co.) Why the special flights for the bin Ladens after 11 September when airspace was closed? Why is the Secret Service protecting the Saudi Embassy (from Michael Moore, yet)? Moore doesn’t have the answers but the questions are well worth asking now that the national journalists have moved on. Moore is not quite cogent on the significance of the Saudi–Bush buddy system – why didn’t Carlyle Group crony James Baker love the Taliban and argue against the Afghanistan war? – but he tells the hitherto clueless or clue–impaired that Bush lived in an oil–soaked bubble of (at best) gullibility most of his life. That’s worth knowing. (But better without Moore’s leading question, “Was [Bush] thinking he needed to think about business relations?”)

Moore shows Bush opposing an independent 9/11 investigating commission – and there’s a fact that’s been shoved down the memory hole.

And Colin Powell said in February 2001 that Saddam was unable to build WMD. There’s another clip worth recycling. (American news organizations haven’t gotten around to it.)

And Bush jokes to a fancy fundraiser: “Some people call you the elite, I call you my base.”

And Moore shows that state authorities in Oregon are short–handed when it comes to antiterrorist staff.

Moore ambushes Congressmen to make the point that their kids aren’t the ones fighting Bush’s war.

Mostly, Moore argues with splices – bang, bang, and another bang. But his best moments are something quite different. As several reviewers have noted, he breaks new ground by hanging around with Lila Lipscomb, the mother of a Flint soldier killed in Iraq, and with wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital. You can say it’s war, any war, but when the war’s being antisepticised, exposing some raw flesh and hurt souls can’t be a bad thing. It’s necessary. So give Moore a cheer for this.


And because, in the thick of a rolling political emergency, he’s packing in blue–state crowds and blue–niche–of–red–state crowds and who–knows–what–color–in–purple–state crowds. Fahrenheit 9/11 opened as the highest–grossing nonfiction (some would quarrel with the label, but never mind) film of all time. Its average box office take per theatre beat out – good God – Mel Gibson’s Passion of the Christ. According to Fox Sports (!), the auto racer Dale Earnhardt., Jr. – son of the eponymous lionized father – told his pit crew to see Fahrenheit 9/11, saying, hey, it'll be a good bonding experience no matter what your political belief.

Benighted democracy needs the contention that Moore provokes because the newspapers don’t provoke it, television doesn’t, the Democrats didn’t, Congress didn’t, judicious folks didn’t. No one who didn’t get worked up about the administration’s distortions re WMD, al–Qaida, and mushroom clouds has the right to pure rage against Michael Moore. He’s not running for president, after all. (More good news.) It was Moore who put the issue of Bush’s evasion of military service back in play a few months ago, when he called Bush a deserter on a platform with General Wesley Clark. That was overkill – and it filled an enormous hole.


Moore is the master demagogue an age of demagoguery made. He’s an impresario of spectacle and he corrals people who don’t pay attention to news to pay attention to him and his facts, his footage, his badinage, his sarcasm, his factoid detonations, all of it, indiscriminately, smashing up the complacency that watched George Bush seize power in the most powerful nation in history. That’s how America goes now. Still, Moore could be a better version of Moore and still be Moore. He could show us that war kills and Bush is appalling, and yet be more scrupulous. But Moore is the only Moore we have – alas. Moore is the anti–Bush, and damn if we didn’t need one.

[pinkeye]

Letterman’s Top Ten List: “Top Ten George W. Bush
Complaints About "Fahrenheit 9/11":

10. That actor who played the President was totally
unconvincing

9. It oversimplified the way I stole the election

8. Too many of them fancy college-boy words

7. If Michael Moore had waited a few months, he could
have included the part where I get him deported

6. Didn't have one of them hilarious monkeys who smoke
cigarettes and gives people the finger

5. Of all Michael Moore's accusations, only 97% are
true

4. Not sure - - I passed out after a piece of popcorn
lodged in my windpipe

3. Where the hell was Spider-man?

2. Couldn't hear most of the movie over Cheney's foul
mouth

1. I thought this was supposed to be about dodgeball

[tuckerhat]

hmm I'm still searching for some real content in your post, can't find anything

That kind of response might work with the other board members who are content in debating you with senseless name calling. But I am engaging you in a serious discussion. If you are unable to do so, I will leave you to the other board members who are more than content with superficial discourse.

So let me reiterate my main point: Garbage in, Garbage out. Nothing that is founded upon lies and deceipt will ever be good. And when I say good, I am coming the stand point of clear, logical analysis of the facts... NOT monetary success.

You make the point that you don't care about the many falsehoods which riddle the movie, because you see value in the movie in being anti-Bush. By saying this you are following the logic of: the ends justify the means. This logic fails because no goal is worth sacrificing the truth.

It has occured to me that you are as narrow minded as those on this board who simply disregard Fahrenheit 9/11 because its a Moore film. However, if this false, I will more than happy to continue this thread.

[afrographX]

So let me reiterate my main point: Garbage in, Garbage out. Nothing that is founded upon lies and deceipt will ever be good. And when I say good, I am coming the stand point of clear, logical analysis of the facts... NOT monetary success.

You make the point that you don't care about the many falsehoods which riddle the movie, because you see value in the movie in being anti-Bush. By saying this you are following the logic of: the ends justify the means. This logic fails because no goal is worth sacrificing the truth.

I admit that Moore's movie won't stand a profound analysis but as many already said Moore doens't really have the demand that Fahrenehit 9/11 should be seen as a documentary. Because of what you critcize the unsuffiecent argumentation, the way Moore deals with facts and employs them,etc. it's not a docu.

Now there are two reasons why I like this movie anyway:

First one, most conclusions drawn in the movie correspond with my opnion about the respective issues. It was not Moore who convinced me, I myself made my opnion based on the analysis of information from different media.

Second one, because this movie is Anti-Bush. Simple as that, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I as german recognize only few anti-bush people who are so popluar in the USA. Michael Moore is one of the leading persons in the fight against the Bush Administration. Of course I can't see into his head but I think he is not Anti-Bush because of pure opportunism (just look at his history, he started his anti-bush trip at time when it was pretty unpopular and when you couldn't make much money with it). So I like that Moore made this movie because I hope it encourages more people to become anti-bush.

You say that the logic "the ends justify the means" is immoral because the truth would be something, which should never be sacrificed for whatever goal. But in view of the Bush-Administration which doesn't care about such values I think it's allowed if the Anti-Bush movement fights back with appropiate methods. There are certainly a lot of people who are trying to convince people to be against Bush with profound material but it seems that they are not successfull with it. If the masses can only be reached with such a movie than it's appropiate that we sacrifice the truth for it. A simple logical conclusion. I think another term in office for Bush will harm this planet and its habitants even more, than a movie which is in some points not true.

[tuckerhat]

I admit that Moore's movie won't stand a profound analysis but as many already said Moore doens't really have the demand that Fahrenehit 9/11 should be seen as a documentary.
I think thats something everyone in this thread will agree with.


First one, most conclusions drawn in the movie correspond with my opnion about the respective issues.
Just curious, for the sake of clarity, what are your conclusions and what are the reasons for them?


Second one, because this movie is Anti-Bush. Simple as that, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
you'd be amazed how many people (in the anti-bush camp) would disagree with that. Just look to their criticism of our loose alliances with nations such as Pakistan and ~Uzbekistan, their opposition to Guantanimo, and their continual ridicule of the Patriot Act.


If the masses can only be reached with such a movie than it's appropiate that we sacrifice the truth for it. A simple logical conclusion.
dont interpret this as a crass generalization of your German nationality but that sounds kind of FACIST to me.

I think its becoming apparent that this is going nowhere. Your ideology of "the ends justify the means" and your pathalogical hatred of Bush are beyond all discussion and debate.

Have a nice day. woot

[afrographX]

[quote=afrographX]If the masses can only be reached with such a movie than it's appropiate that we sacrifice the truth for it. A simple logical conclusion.

I think its becoming apparent that this is going nowhere. Your ideology of "the ends justify the means" and your pathalogical hatred of Bush are beyond all discussion and debate.

Have a nice day. woot

The ideology of "the ends justify the means" is not so uncommon in political history and daily politics. Just look at the question if one should try to increase security at the expense of civil rights. It's pure polemic to compare this logic with fascism. But anyway let's end this here.

would somebody please be so kind and close this thread

[5kMan]

What about Bush's ties between his oil business and al Kduh?

[SavikLion]

afrographX wrote:
If the masses can only be reached with such a movie than it's appropiate that we sacrifice the truth for it. A simple logical conclusion.

Wow, that is about the most accurate statement I have heard in regards to the Anti-Bush movement. If it isn't accurate who cares, Lie a little so what, we just hate him. So what if we spread inaccurate information so long as we reach our desired goal of getting rid of him. "Dishonesty" What an excellent foundation for a movement. rofl

[callous]

What about Bush's ties between his oil business and al Kduh?

You ressurected a thread that's over a year old to ask that?

Bravo! good job

[5kMan]

Wow, dang search. I should really start looking when these topics were posted.

[TuNeRsHaRk]

I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and I have to say it's really a strong movie. Some may call it propaganda. In my opinion it's a good piece of anti-propaganda against all the **** Bush and his neocons are selling as truth.

Please only replies from people who really watched the film!!!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative7.jpg

[Slug69]

I enjoyed the film.

I thought the most important point in the film was his association with his friend in the National Guard which went on to the Saudis. I didn't expect to see any humanitarian things that GWB has done in his life.

I refuse to believe that George is a "stupid" person. I believe him to be a person who, at one time in his life flew a 12 tonne supersonic interceptor, one of the most difficult aircraft to fly as well. He does have brains. I just think it is sad to see someone who's beliefs are so wrong.

Today he made a speech asking America to become a culture of life. The Irony floored me...This guy as governor of Texas AFAIK didn't stay any executions while he was governor. Including women and people who commited their crimes while of childs age.

I believe him to be smart. I also believe him to be the most evil guy on the planet. Bar none.

[Ballistic]

Yeah I saw it, some interesting opinions, but it mostly bored the fark outta me.

[Rantanplan]

:lol: Dear god, thats an awesome thread. :lol:

[Macs.]

Go away nazi.

[Rantanplan]

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/prod/images/hitlr1.jpg

[Inquisitor]

very good movie

[Ratman]

I saw the movie the other day (off the internet) and it showed me literally ZERO that I hadn't seen or known about before. So much of the film is Moore trying to show us stuff to shock us, but to anyone who's knowledgeable about current events, none of it is shocking or surprising. He spends so much time showing Bush as a successful business man that for a while I thought this was a pro-Bush movie. The question is, what's the alternative? Do you really think that Kerry, who's family is collectively worth over 1 billion dollars is going to be any different? Do you really think a person who's been a senator, the full time target of lobbyists for so many years, is going to not have his own business-tied agenda? Moore is appealing to the naive and yes men (or women) of this country; people who are willing to believe anyone who shouts the loudest.

I agree that if one is familar with current events the movie raises no new material. The problem is, IMO, most people have no clue about current events. They have no clue of the relationship between the US government generally (and the Bush family specifically) has with the Saudis. Polls still show that the majority of Americans think that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the planning or execution of 9/11, although they've had 3.5 years to figure out who actually took down the towers.

F9/11 is 2 hours of propaganda, the White House Press office has been pumping it out 24/7 for 5 years. The former is a private citizen who can package his selective facts and non-facts however he chooses. IMO, the Executive Office should have a higher standard.

[Lg6thUA]

I´ve watch the movie carfully... for starters.. I think this whole thread is an outrage.... :roll:

Politicly (spelling?) I´m to the right (NO I´M NOT A NAZI). And my thoughts about documenterys (spelling) WHO EVER created them WILL be angled.. and since Moore created this one it´s going to be angled to the left and everything in a documentry should be taken lightly and not just swollowed (spelling?).

It´s not a big suprise that people in key positions politicly do things that THEY themselves gain from, happens in EVERY country no matter what kind of "ruling" there is.. And some of what Moore sais is propably more or less true.. well whatever..

I know I´m gonna get spanked hard for what I´m about to write and I don´t give a s**t..

As soon as ANYTHING "bad" is written about America or something America is involved in a lot of you Americans just turn your spikes out and spits like a mad dog at anybody who happens to agree... Leaders DO ****TY THINGS because there HUMAN ! For f**k sake it happens everywhere so don´t get so outragesly angry.... If this would be say India, Italy or Sweden.. wherever really except USA a thread like would NEVER be full of pople be so angry at whoever happends to write something that seems to be online with what the documentry sais..

Chill out people... take a breath and think before you write agressive nonsense...

_____________________________________________________________

There we go ... no for the :bash:

[Harrelson]

i watched it for 10 minutes, thought of it as being just plain silly and switched channels. i now support bush even more because of that

[5kMan]

Look at my work. p-)

[HooyahCQB]

People seem to forget that Michael Moore is an entertainer and probably hasn't any grasp of empirical research methods.