The end of tax free havens in Europe ?

[timetraveller]

With Licheinstein having signed an agreement with the UK over UK nationals and compainies that use the country as place to stash there cash .
Is it really right for one country to dictate Internal Policy of another Country even if the Country is known for it's tax haven status ? Will we see Switzerland following suite ?

[Flagg]

With Licheinstein having signed an agreement with the UK over UK nationals and compainies that use the country as place to stash there cash .
Is it really right for one country to dictate Internal Policy of another Country even if the Country is known for it's tax haven status ? Will we see Switzerland following suite ?

It's not a question or "right" or "wrong".

It's a question of nations absolutely desperate to flush that real cash out and into their own banking systems.

[Wahnsinn]

I can't see Switzerland following suit, they won't change their banking system for anyone and rightly so. You can put your money where you want, it is your money.

[TallGuy]

I can't see Switzerland following suit, they won't change their banking system for anyone and rightly so. You can put your money where you want, it is your money.
In many cases yes, but this past year too much money has disappeared.
Days before, and the same day of the bank collapse in Iceland, billions of dollars were transferred from Iceland to tax havens all over the world. That means there was some insider trading going on, which is illegal. These tax havens make it extremely difficult for the authorities to track the money..

[hsh2]

I can't see Switzerland following suit, they won't change their banking system for anyone and rightly so. You can put your money where you want, it is your money.

x2

To be honest I haven't followed the whole affair as much as I could or have should during the last few weeks but Hans Rudolf Merz is back on track and seems to have learned his lesson. Which is a start especially with him.

[hatchet_harry]

With Licheinstein having signed an agreement with the UK over UK nationals and compainies that use the country as place to stash there cash .
Is it really right for one country to dictate Internal Policy of another Country even if the Country is known for it's tax haven status ? Will we see Switzerland following suite ?
tax free havens? switzerland is not tax free, far from it. there is one noteable exception, but only if you're filthy rich and living here while not working in switzerland (complicated and not without controversy). we have our bank secrecy which makes it harder to trace money. but guess what: tax evasion is illegal by swiss laws too.

currently switzerland is renegotiating tax treaties (doppelbesteuerungsabkommen in german) with several oecd members, uk for example. bank secrecy is not really touched by that. in fact, there's even a movement here to install the bank secrecy in the constitution (but that's more because of the americans, keyword: ubs).

and as for the uk riding attacks on our system, well look who's talking (guernsey, jersey, isle of man)

[Macs.]

It's not a question or "right" or "wrong".

It's a question of nations absolutely desperate to flush that real cash out and into their own banking systems.

...and don't forget the media aspect. During the "recession" it's a easy way to distract a big part of the people from the real problems while making rather small ones look big.

In Germany it was the perfect situation for some politicans to play themselvs up, at the same time making people focus on some small cases of tax evasion by (half-)celebrities while trying to make billion-wasting cases such as the goverment owned HSH Nordbank disappear in the dust.

[Euroamerican]

The ability to evade taxes is not what is used to be. In fact, the last time I studied it, it was slightly easier for the US government to obtain information about a US citizen's SWISS private bank account than even about that same person's onshore US accounts. Why? Because of inter governmental courtesies extended to investigators from countries other the the one where the account is located. In the case of Switzerland, the authorities now usually waive the required formalities that an official US investigator would normally be required to wade through.

[Flagg]

In many cases yes, but this past year too much money has disappeared.
Days before, and the same day of the bank collapse in Iceland, billions of dollars were transferred from Iceland to tax havens all over the world. That means there was some insider trading going on, which is illegal. These tax havens make it extremely difficult for the authorities to track the money..

I think you're confused.

If a shareholder of a company with insider information that is likely to have an impact on share performance sells shares prior to the information entering the public domain and benefits from it...that would be an example of insider trading, and illegal in most jurisdictions.

If owners of capital prepare their accounts in such a way that they can VERY quickly telegraphic transfer their capital overseas on VERY short notice if they suspect government default, capital controls, or unusual fiscal or monetary policy, that is NOT illegal.....that is simply being prudent.

Everybody can do it.....unfortunately not everyone has the capital, professional expertise, or time to protect themselves.

It's important to understand that folks with their capital on a hair trigger are trying to preserve their capital, they're not likely to profit from such activity, but they are likely to lose less of their capital if they act wisely.

It is my understanding that there has been and continues to be really substantial amounts of capital(not debt) sitting on hair triggers around the world waiting to be moved if a substantial event occurs in efforts to preserve that capital.....this is the consensus I've picked up in my research.

Just my 0.02c

[delio]

I can't see Switzerland following suit, they won't change their banking system for anyone and rightly so. You can put your money where you want, it is your money.

Yeah, ...


Judge Sets Date for Sentencing Ex-UBS Banker


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/ads/fox/article-sponsor.gifhttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/adx/images/ADS/20/63/ad.206332/500days_nytimes_120x60_NP.gif (http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/business&pos=Frame4A&sn2=a23bc051/6ffe8c2e&sn1=19f97696/eaff430d&camp=foxsearch2009_emailtools_1011076c_nyt5&ad=500Days_120x60c_NowPlaying&goto=http://www.foxsearchlight.com/500daysofsummer)



By BLOOMBERG NEWS
Published: August 11, 2009


A former UBS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/ubs_ag/index.html?inline=nyt-org) banker, Bradley Birkenfeld, will be sentenced Aug. 21 for conspiring to help wealthy Americans evade taxes, a judge ruled on Tuesday.

Judge William J. Zloch of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida turned down a motion by prosecutors and defense lawyers that cited Mr. Birkenfeld’s cooperation with a federal investigation into “activities in the United States and worldwide.” The request sought to postpone the hearing until October.


Mr. Birkenfeld, 44, pleaded guilty in June 2008 to conspiracy, admitting that he helped American clients evade taxes through a variety of schemes at UBS.


UBS agreed on Feb. 18 to pay $780 million to avoid United States prosecution for helping Americans evade taxes. The bank also gave the names of 250 clients to the Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/internal_revenue_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org) in a break from traditional Swiss secrecy. A day later, the I.R.S. sued UBS in Federal District Court in Miami, seeking the names of 52,000 Americans suspected of evading taxes. Three UBS clients have since pleaded guilty since to filing false returns.




Having admittedly flouted U.S. law for some time, UBS has put itself -- and, by nature of its size, Switzerland -- in a bind, a catch-22: Give us that info you rather no give us, or likely say buy bye to you U.S. operating business licenses. The latter would put UBS as such a competitive disadvantage with other global-banking giants it'd likely amount to a death-knell to UBS as we know it, disastrous for the Swiss economy.

I posted (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138528)the following some time ago, ...





UBS to Pay $780 Million to Settle Tax Case (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/business/worldbusiness/19ubs.html?hp)



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/bu.../19ubs.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/business/worldbusiness/19ubs.html?hp)
By LYNNLEY BROWNING (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=LYNNLEY%20BROWNING&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=LYNNLEY%20BROWNING&inline=nyt-per)
Published: February 18, 2009

In the hush-hush world of Swiss banking, the unthinkable is happening: secrets are spilling into the open.


UBS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/ubs_ag/index.html?inline=nyt-org), the largest bank in Switzerland, agreed on Wednesday to divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes. The bank admitted conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/internal_revenue_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and agreed to pay $780 million to settle a sweeping federal investigation into its activities.

It is unclear how many of its clients’ names UBS will divulge. Federal prosecutors have been examining about 19,000 accounts at the bank, but UBS ultimately may disclose the identities of only a few hundred customers.

But to some, turning over any names at all heralds the end of the secret Swiss bank account, whose traditions date to the Middle Ages.

“The Swiss are saying that this is the end of Swiss banking as they knew it,” said Jack Blum, an offshore tax specialist. “Nobody will trust the security of the Swiss bank account.”

As part of the settlement, UBS agreed to cooperate with a broad summons issued by the Justice Department to turn over the names. Under the terms of a so-called deferred prosecution agreement, the bank and its executives could be indicted if UBS didn’t identify the customers.
...
Prosecutors suspect that from late 2002 to 2007, UBS helped American clients illegally hide $20 billion, letting them evade $300 million a year in taxes.

In a striking admission, UBS said that from 2000 through 2007, some of its private bankers and managers had “participated in a scheme to defraud the United States” and the I.R.S. by helping American clients set up and conceal offshore accounts. The scheme involved falsifying or not properly obtaining or filing certain tax forms required of both the bank and its clients.

UBS’s offshore private banking business once employed some 60 private bankers in Lugano, Zurich and Geneva. Prosecutors claimed UBS referred clients to lawyers and accountants who set up secret offshore entities to conceal assets from the I.R.S.

UBS urged some American clients to destroy records and to stash watches, jewelry and artwork that they had bought with money hidden offshore in safe deposit boxes in Switzerland. The bank also encouraged them to use Swiss credit cards so the I.R.S. could not track purchases. In a statement on Wednesday, Peter Kurer, the chairman of UBS, said that “UBS sincerely regrets the compliance failures in its U.S. cross-border business that have been identified by the various government investigations in Switzerland and the U.S., as well as our own internal review. We accept full responsibility for these improper activities.”

Marcel Rohner, the group chief executive of UBS, said in a statement that “it is apparent that as an organization we made mistakes and that our control systems were inadequate.”

In January a senior UBS executive, Raoul Weil, was declared a fugitive, two months after being indicted by a federal judge in connection with the investigation of the bank. Mr. Weil, a Swiss citizen, oversaw the cross-border private banking operations from 2002 to 2007.

UBS had fiercely resisted turning over the names, even after some executives were indicted and implicated in the offshore private banking business. Swiss law distinguishes broadly between tax avoidance, tax evasion and tax fraud. Unlike in the United States, tax evasion is not a criminal offense under Swiss law.

The move by UBS to settle the case, on the eve of a Senate subcommittee hearing next Tuesday on the matter, signals how close the bank came to being indicted for not cooperating with prosecutors. Indictment is a near-certain death knell for corporations.

Of the $780 million that UBS will pay, $380 million represents disgorgement of profits from its cross-border business. The remainder represents United States taxes that UBS failed to withhold on the accounts. The figures include interest, penalties and restitution for unpaid taxes

As part of the deal, UBS also entered into a consent order with the Securities and Exchange Commission in which it agreed to charges of having acted as an unregistered broker-dealer and investment adviser for Americans.

The settlement caps a painful run for UBS, which suffered more than $50 billion in losses in the collapse of the American mortgage market and received a $60 billion bailout from the Swiss government last October.
The bank will not have to pay additional fines and penalties, which could have brought the deal to more than $1 billion.

People briefed on the issue said the banking crisis and the recession were factors in this decision by prosecutors.



The agreement will settle the criminal investigation against the bank, but a civil case against UBS filed by U.S. tax authorities remains open. In that case, U.S. authorities have subpoenaed UBS to turn over 19,000 names of clients who Internal Revenue Service investigators believe used UBS's services to avoid taxes.


Oh, and given the skeletons in its closet UBS has readily admitted to having in the U.S., how many will it be force to pay for if and when investigations in individual E.U. countries mature. It seems to be Switzerland it holding the weaker cards, and will have to give a lot once all the dust -- from the forthcoming arbitrations, hand-wringing and settlements -- settles.

[Chimera]

I find it very funny that the UK is chasing the 'bad guys' in Europe and blaming Switzerland for being a taxfree heaven and an opaque banking system while the biggest place for money laundering in the wolrd has been, for decades, the City, London, UK.

[hatchet_harry]

latest news regarding the us - ubs dispute over bank accounts, tax evasion claims etc.

Die UBS kann endlich aufatmen

Definitive Lösung im Steuerstreit mit den USA gefunden


Der definitive Vergleich steht. Im Steuerstreit der UBS mit den USA haben die Konfliktparteien eine definitige Lösung gefunden. Der amerikanische Richter Alan Gold hiess die Einigung gut.


mtz. Der Vergleich zwischen der USA und der Scheiz im Fall UBS steht definitiv. Die entscheidende Telefonkonferenz dauerte am Mittwoch lediglich drei Minuten. Nachdem sich alle Teilnehmer kurz bei Richter Alan Gold angemeldet hatten, fragte Gold den Vertreter des US-Justizdepartements: «Herr Gibson, ja, nein oder noch nicht?» Worauf Gibson mit ja antwortete. Man habe sich auf einen Vergleich verständigt. Es werde noch eine Weile dauern, bis man diesen finalisiert und zur Unterschrift bereit habe. Auf Nachfrage des Richters bestätigte Gibson auch, dass bei Vorliegen aller Unterschrift das Verfahren vom Kalender des Gerichts definitiv gestrichen werden könne.

Die UBS-Anwälte bedankten sich bei Richter Alan Gold, für seinen Einsatz. Er habe dazu beigetragen, diese «schwierige Angelegenheit» zu einer Lösung habe bringen könnte.
Details zum Vergleich wurden keine genannt. Hier dürfte man in Kürze weitere Informationen vom Bund und der Grossbank selbst erwarten.

Dem erholsamen Urlaub Von Richter Gold steht damit nichts mehr im Wege.
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/startseite/die_ubs_kann_aufatmen_1.3329262.html

quick and dirty translation:
- there was a phone conference which lasted only three minutes
- solution found in tax dispute, representant of us ministry of justice aggreed to settlement
- judge approved of solution
- details to follow
- judge looking forward to recreative vacation

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I find it very funny that the UK is chasing the 'bad guys' in Europe and blaming Switzerland for being a taxfree heaven and an opaque banking system while the biggest place for money laundering in the wolrd has been, for decades, the City, London, UK.Its a transit point for dirty cash but TKYC rules have eliminated many of the placement and layering methods over the last decade so the UK is not your first stop if you have a wad of drug money to wash. Its just as easy to wash dirty money in France as it is in the UK at the moment.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Its a transit point for dirty cash but TKC rules have eliminated many of the placement and layering methods over the last decade so the UK is not your first stop if you have a wad of drug money to wash. Its just as easy to wash dirty money in France as it is in the UK at the moment.

Probably more beneficial to do it in France or any other Eurozone country in fact - laundering your ill-gotten gains into Euros rather than Sterling gives many more possible international opportunities to benefit from the cash!

[acosta]

lacking transparency has been a long problem of swiss banking system. financial sector as an unproportional influence on swiss governing commission, it certainly dictate this country's "internal" policy.

sensitively enough, this relates its long standing as "independent" and "private" state, the benefit from it, and those highly classified cases from world war II, and connection with dictorships around the world.

heard the news that King Jong IL's succesor took school there, and you don't even suprise that.

so now it's time for swiss to embrace the new world, waking up from her financial middle ages dreams.

[Macs.]

heard the news that King Jong IL's succesor took school there, and you don't even suprise that.

Another nice brainfart right there... :roll:

It was Kim's son, a CHILD, who went to a PRIVATE school/university there. Has nothing to do with a evil conspiracy between Switzerland and North-Korea.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

It's not a question or "right" or "wrong".

It's a question of nations absolutely desperate to flush that real cash out and into their own banking systems.

Meh it only effects rich bastards who should be taken to the cleaners anyway

p-)

[acosta]

Another nice brainfart right there... :roll:

It was Kim's son, a CHILD, who went to a PRIVATE school/university there. Has nothing to do with a evil conspiracy between Switzerland and North-Korea.

bingo. i forgot to add that Kim Jong iL's saving money in swissbank lawful in every aspect. swiss been a good friend for this royal family. totally human, nothing politics.

[theholeinthedonut]

bingo. i forgot to add that Kim Jong iL's saving money in swissbank lawful in every aspect. swiss been a good friend for this royal family. totally human, nothing politics.

you Learn spelling and GRammaR in School where your account bank is! Then you comer backin!

Are you an effing Gungan or what?

[futurepilot2004]

Well Ireland is considered a tax haven by a lot of countries but we sure as hell aint changing our laws. In fact we basically held up the Lisbon treaty until the EU promised that we`d have complete control over our tax laws.

[Wahnsinn]

Well Ireland is considered a tax haven by a lot of countries but we sure as hell aint changing our laws. In fact we basically held up the Lisbon treaty until the EU promised that we`d have complete control over our tax laws.

Least you got a referendum on it, we sure as hell didn't!

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Probably more beneficial to do it in France or any other Eurozone country in fact - laundering your ill-gotten gains into Euros rather than Sterling gives many more possible international opportunities to benefit from the cash!There is a certain mobility at the moment with the Euro as it is now accepted an a growing number of states outside Europe places like Burma now have it as their de facto foreign currency of choice. I can still find French companies willing to deal either way in cash but try offering Belgians cash and its hands over their ears and an about turn. The Triads are very fond of the Euro as well or at least they were when they were taking their cut as cockle picking gang masters, the Euros mostly supplied by Dutch and French buyers.

[happyslapper]

and as for the uk riding attacks on our system, well look who's talking (guernsey, jersey, isle of man)

... are not part of the UK.