Switzerland campaign to ban minarets. [Archive] - Page 3

Xaito

11-30-2009, 08:27 AM

I know, but minarets are specific to Mosques, it's like forbidding bells in churches, it's still a discriminatory behaviour. I have still a problem understanding the rationale behind this decision apart from being only about cheap populism.

Here in my Hometown in Germany nobody seems to have a problem with building their non catholic/evangelic churches/temples/whatever in a way that they don't stick out with distinctive characteristics.
We have freedom of religion here - you may practice your religion freely, but it's still a Christian occidental country and culture - minarets are neither christian, nor occidental and thus don't fit in.
Naturally many people - including myself - feel that immigrants building their distinctive cultural landmarks here is like a dog marking trees outside of his own territory - combine that with some of them boasting openly how they'll "take over" Germany and there you have my opinion about minarets in western-european countries.

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 08:30 AM

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani religious groups on Monday condemned a referendum in Switzerland that saw voters approve a ban on the construction of mosque minarets, calling it 'extreme Islamophobia.'

Switzerland on Sunday voted in favour of a ban on new mosque minarets - the towers or turrets attached to mosques from which Muslims are traditionally called to prayer - prompting dismay and anger in the Muslim world.

'This development reflects extreme Islamophobia among people in the West,' said Khurshid Ahmad, vice president of Jamaat-e-Islami, a Islamic political party that is represented in Pakistan's parliament.

'This also represents very serious discrimination against Muslims.' Pakistan is the world's second most populous Muslim nation.

The far-right Swiss People's Party (SVP) had forced a referendum after collecting a mandatory 100,000 signatures from eligible voters.

Conservative Swiss politicians argued that the minarets were not architectural features with religious characteristics, but symbolised a 'political-religious claim to power, which challenges fundamental rights.'
Ahmad described the Swiss decision as a serious violation of human rights and international law, telling AFP: 'This is an effort to provoke Muslims and prompt a clash between Islam and the West.'

Yahya Mujahid, a spokesman for Islamic charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa - accused of being a front for the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba radical insurgent group - also decried the referendum as a blow for inter-faith harmony.
'This new decision violates the principles of mutual understanding and religious tolerance,' Mujahid said.

'The West never takes respite in claiming to be champions of religious tolerance and inter-faith harmony, but this latest decision shows their bias against Muslims,' he added.

Far-right politicians across Europe celebrated the results, while the Swiss government sought to assure the Muslim minority that a ban on minarets was 'not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture.'

Having won a majority on turnout of 53 per cent, the initiative will now be inscribed in the country's constitution.

http://beta.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/03-swiss-minaret-ban-extreme-islamophobia-ss-04

Guys Swiss are a democracy and this is how it works! dont try to drag others to the stone age!

hulaku

11-30-2009, 08:32 AM

"We call on Indonesian Muslims not to take revenge over the decision. We should show them tolerance and the freedom of religion,"

Revenge over the decision???

Typical reactions which were expected and it has just started. Suddenly there will be surge of the sale of Swiss flags in the Ummah nations.

Stop eating chocolates and wearing Swiss watchesp-)

hulaku

11-30-2009, 08:52 AM

Vatican criticises Swiss minaret ban

VATICAN CITY: The Vatican on Monday endorsed criticism by Swiss bishops that a vote in Switzerland to ban the construction of mosque minarets was a blow to religious freedom.

Antonio Maria Sveglio, president of the pontifical council on migration, told a local news agency that "we are on the same page" as the Conference of Swiss Bishops.

In a statement after Sunday's vote, the conference said it "heightens the problems of cohabitation between religions" while secretary-general Felix Gmur told Vatican Radio it was "heavy blow to religious freedom and integration".http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=92502

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 08:56 AM

"For the 36th time,

there's no ban on mosques, only on minarets." By ZEEV.

be seen with bigger fonts!

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 08:58 AM

VATICAN CITY: The Vatican on Monday endorsed criticism by Swiss bishops that a vote in Switzerland to ban the construction of mosque minarets was a blow to religious freedom.

vote means democracy!!

Ordie

11-30-2009, 09:55 AM

vote means democracy!!

No

Not if it means the tyranny of the majority ( of voters).

Zeev

11-30-2009, 09:59 AM

"For the 36th time,

there's no ban on mosques, only on minarets." By ZEEV.

be seen with bigger fonts!

When the mind is blind, eyes can't help anymore.

Xaito

11-30-2009, 10:03 AM

Not if it means the tyranny of the majority ( of voters).

except there's no tyranny.
you're being a bit of a drama queen there. :)

Zeev

11-30-2009, 10:05 AM

except there's no tyranny.
you're being a bit of a drama queen there. :)

No minarets, no freedom.

Thats racist.

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 10:11 AM

No

Not if it means the tyranny of the majority ( of voters).

can you name some other western countries who 'voted' the same way?

Mr.K

11-30-2009, 10:12 AM

Mosques can fuction just fine without the minatrets.
Here is one in my city.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=7220+Hutchison,+Montreal&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.725603,77.255859&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=7220+Rue+Hutchison,+Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec&ll=45.534702,-73.623226&spn=0,359.981139&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=45.529798,-73.623265&panoid=CX2h6cJ5ARLL5WiPtGFmYQ&cbp=12,206.99,,0,1.93

And here is another one. I don't see any problems.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=7220+Hutchison,+Montreal&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.725603,77.255859&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=7220+Rue+Hutchison,+Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec&ll=45.528554,-73.616381&spn=0,359.981139&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=45.528349,-73.615939&panoid=06QGsjI1l6xS3EXq0w0Ytw&cbp=12,9.3,,0,-7.6

Jµµso

11-30-2009, 10:18 AM

"Funny" how this small incident didn't create this kinda crying... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 10:19 AM

For the 36th time, there's no ban on mosques, only on minarets.

Is Islam your religion ? How can you a judge a religious culture ? Minarets are also part of islamic culture for over 1400 years and there is no Mosque without minarets all over world among the 600K mosques ...

quinsen

11-30-2009, 10:21 AM

[...]there is no Mosque without minarets all over world among the 600K mosques ...
No, that's wrong. There are several mosques in Germany which lack of a minaret. Reason? It's not needed for calling in the muslims. There are also churches with no clocktower in our country...

Mr.K

11-30-2009, 10:26 AM

"Funny" how this small incident didn't create this kinda crying... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm

We have our priorities straight. p-)

Zeev

11-30-2009, 10:27 AM

Is Islam your religion ? How can you a judge a religious culture ? Minarets are also part of islamic culture for over 1400 years and there is no Mosque without minarets all over world among the 600K mosques ...

Yeah, but too bad, most part of europeans think that it has no place in their civilisation, unlike cathedrals and churches. So muslims have just to accept it, if they don't, they are free to live in an other place.

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 10:28 AM

No, that's just a lie. There are several mosques in Germany which lack of a minaret.

They are masjid actually not mosques. Like small kind of chappels or rooms for whorshipping .

But in English language there is no descriptive name or word for masjids..Both of temple are named mosques.

Masjids are not equal mosques. EG. Funeral ceremonies cant be done there .

hulaku

11-30-2009, 10:32 AM

They are masjid actually not mosques. Like small kind of chappels or rooms for whorshipping .

But in English language there is no descriptive name or word for masjids..Both of temple are named mosques.

Masjids are not equal mosques. EG. Funeral ceremonies cant be done there .

What is the difference between a Masjid and a Mosque?

In India a Muslim place of worship in Urdu/ Hindi is a Masjid and in English we call it a Mosque.

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 10:32 AM

So muslims have just to accept it, if they don't, they are free to live in an other place.

Yeap. l also know once a times someones had told that same argument to jews in the europe .

hulaku

11-30-2009, 10:33 AM

Yeap. l also know once a times someones had told that same argument to jews in the europe .

What is it with you that you have to drag Jews into all your arguments? Cant you just argue for your own cause?

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 10:36 AM

What is the difference between a Masjid and a Mosque?

.

Basicly masjids are smaller than mosques .

JBH22

11-30-2009, 10:38 AM

Basicly masjids are smaller than mosques .

roflbtw glad the Swiss voted for the ban

Thfela

11-30-2009, 10:39 AM

A question to m.i.t
Can Armenians(for exemple) build new church in Turkey..?

just wondering your answer...

ps: congratulations to Swiss people for choice..

saturnin

11-30-2009, 10:40 AM

Is Islam your religion ? How can you a judge a religious culture ? Minarets are also part of islamic culture for over 1400 years and there is no Mosque without minarets all over world among the 600K mosques ...

well, others members already proved you wrong I can just add that this is not case in Prague either. It is sad that some muslims do not understand that architecture is not question of hate/religion. This is often idiotic on their side as many of them they woudn´t tolerate church in their own town or any sign of christian religion but feel offended when only PART of BUILDING representing Islam is not tolerated in Swiss.

hsh2

11-30-2009, 10:40 AM

What is it with you that you have to drag Jews into all your arguments? Cant you just argue for your own cause?

Not just him. 4-5 people pulled the Jew card for some reason.

Oh and btw Europeans killed 6Mio Jews didnt you know?

Pathetic.

hulaku

11-30-2009, 10:41 AM

Basicly masjids are smaller than mosques .

Epic fail

You are wrong. In English a muslim place of worship is called Mosque where as in Arabic it is called Masjid

A mosque is a place of worship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_worship) for followers of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam). Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) often refer to the mosque by its Arabic name, masjid (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AC%D8%AF), Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque

Mr.K

11-30-2009, 10:42 AM

Not just him. 4-5 people pulled the Jew card for some reason.

Oh and btw Europeans killed 6Mio Jews didnt you know?

Pathetic.

Is it 5 or 6?

Either way a sucessful thead cannot be accomplshed withtout Hitler & The Jews.

saturnin

11-30-2009, 10:43 AM

Is it 5 or 6?

Either way a sucessful thead cannot be accomplshed withtout Hitler & The Jews.

forget about R-word;)

Zeev

11-30-2009, 10:45 AM

Yeap. l also know once a times someones had told that same argument to jews in the europe .

If tomorrow, european jews are not pleased enough with the life in europe, I'll be the first to tell them to go in Israel.
But that's not the case, Jews in europe are pretty well integrated and share good relations with the vast part of christian europeans.

hsh2

11-30-2009, 10:49 AM

Is it 5 or 6?

Either way a sucessful thead cannot be accomplshed withtout Hitler & The Jews.

Yeah but don't forget I'mOnlyHalfPolish's contribution to this thread.

Hitler, Jews AND Poles in a thread about Switzerland forbidding the construction of new minarets. Now there's just Putin missing and maybe the Chicoms and their respective perceived records of human rights for good measure.

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 10:51 AM

A question to m.i.t
Can Armenians(for exemple) build new church in Turkey..?

just wondering you answer...

Ofcourse l can answer. First of all topic is not Turkey .

Secondly . AFAIK no laws limit church synagogue budist temple or chappel building in Turkey .Even Bahaians Budists zarohostarians have temples in Istanbul.

l think Appro. 60 Armenain churches and 700 other chrtistian churhes are active in all over Turkey without any official limitation..

Thfela

11-30-2009, 11:03 AM

Ofcourse l can answer. First of all topic is not Turkey .

Secondly . AFAIK no laws limit church synagogue budist temple or chappel building in Turkey .Even Bahaians Budists zarohostarians have temples in Istanbul.

l think Appro. 60 Armenain churches and 700 other chrtistian churhes are active in all over Turkey without any official limitation..

I didn't ask about old/historical churches..
My question is simple.. Can christians(Armenians, Greeks etc.) build new churches in Turkey..

And yes you know the answer.. No!

Lazy Lob

11-30-2009, 11:10 AM

I didn't ask about old/historical churches..
My question is simple.. Can christians(Armenians, Greeks etc.) build new churches in Turkey..

And yes you know the answer.. No!

Is that so?

m.i.t

11-30-2009, 11:15 AM

I didn't ask about old/historical churches..
My question is simple.. Can christians(Armenians, Greeks etc.) build new churches in Turkey..

And yes you know the answer.. No!

so dont ask the questions if you know the answers .

Listen me . l never join pissing races trolls and flames .

No one needs to see your irrelevant foolish bashing attempts here.Read the headline and keep on topic .

Zeev

11-30-2009, 11:16 AM

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 11:16 AM

I didn't ask about old/historical churches..
My question is simple.. Can christians(Armenians, Greeks etc.) build new churches in Turkey..

And yes you know the answer.. No!

Sorry it took me some time to evaluate whether you were serious or not..but after seeing so many clueless ppl here, I figured you were serious..

here..take your pick:

http://www.mymerhaba.com/Armenian-Churches-in-Turkey-126.html

Now..do you think we follow the "civilized" world's exampele and ban them after the latest decision in the civilized world? :roll:

Well..I guess it's pretty obvious why zeev sides with the anti Muslim laws in the Europe. I'm sure things will change for him the day his values are at the steak there.

All in all, I still support the move by the swiss..it has already effecting my cause positively in Turkey :)

Thfela

11-30-2009, 11:31 AM

so dont ask the questions if you know the answers .

Listen me . l never join pissing races trolls and flames .

No one needs to see your irrelevant foolish bashing attempts here.Read the headline and keep on topic .

You know what is interesting.. You are writing about human rights on this topic..

"irrelevant foolish bashing attempts"

Typical Turkish mentality..
Good luck with that..

Ulytau

11-30-2009, 11:38 AM

I didn't ask about old/historical churches..
My question is simple.. Can christians(Armenians, Greeks etc.) build new churches in Turkey..

And yes you know the answer.. No!

:| hmmm new Orthodox church going to build in Antalya ''Because Russian Population also they have school'' even Protestant Church ''must be from Germany'' send priest local foreigners to my city even mayor said when you people ready to build Church we are ready to give place for free :|

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 11:47 AM

:| hmmm new Orthodox church going to build in Antalya ''Because Russian Population also they have school'' even Protestant Church ''must be from Germany'' send priest local foreigners to my city even mayor said when you people ready to build Church we are ready to give place for free :|

Hey Ulytau, did the new priest for the Norwegian church in Alanya start the mass services? :)

Ulytau

11-30-2009, 11:57 AM

Hey Ulytau, did the new priest for the Norwegian church in Alanya start the mass services? :)

Abi German one pretty popular and yes Norwegian one start which connected with Sjomannskirken Church in Norway also they rent a building and using there as an ''Offical Church''

Also Priests,Imams doing meetings at religious days for Muslims and Christians :D

Btw about difference for Mosque and Masjid

in Turkish Mosques with minarets etc. we calling that Mosque,Masjids are little ones ''little rooms or buildings which builded for only praying in shoppin centers,long distance facilities,gas stations etc.''

Thfela

11-30-2009, 12:01 PM

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 12:05 PM

Abi German one pretty popular and yes Norwegian one start which connected with Sjomannskirken Church in Norway also they rent a building and using there as an ''Offical Church''

Also Priests,Imams doing meetings at religious days for Muslims and Christians :D

hehehe...I hear that in the near future, you locals will be minority there...and next elections, you might have a German governor there...

You folks need to listen to Erdo and make at least three babies..rofl

hulaku

11-30-2009, 12:08 PM

Btw about difference for Mosque and Masjid

in Turkish Mosques with minarets etc. we calling that Mosque,Masjids are little ones ''little rooms or buildings which builded for only praying in shoppin centers,long distance facilities,gas stations etc.''

Can you tell me the Turkish word for Mosque and the Turkish word for Masjid please.

Ulytau

11-30-2009, 12:10 PM

^^^^^^

We hearin humors about ''Alanya'nin Yerlisi : Alman'' Local of Alanya : German rofl

Especially this 17 May we felt like we invaded from Norway ''National day of Norway celebrating in Alanya too''

@Thfela

news which from 2008 in 2009 they did interview with Mayor too,Norwegian Newspaper ''HALDEN ARBEIDERBLAND'' they arent using this place only for church also as local place,they using Cultural Center of Alanya for Sunday prayings too.

@Hulaku

in Turkish

Mosque : Camii

Masjid : Mescid

Pictures can explain better too;

Inside of Selimiye Mosque

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8127/17551239429418edirnesel.jpg

And inside of Masjid

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5699/mescid.jpg

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 12:14 PM

I find an article about Sojomannskirken..

Tepkilerden çekinen Sojomannskirken isimli kilise, Alanya'daki şubesinin ismini de gizledi. Sojomannskirken'in www. sjomannskirken.no adresindeki resmi internet sitesinde Alanya'da açılan kilisenin ismi ve görevli papazın ismi belirtilirken, resmi açılışı yapılan binanın tabelasında kilise ismi geçmiyor. Sojomannskirken'in logosunun kullanıldığı kilisenin ismi tepki ihtimaline karşı "Norveç Evi" olarak kullanılıyor.

Not bad.. :)

Hehehe..after your "is there a armenian church in Turkey"? one, another lame attempt...and again debunked :)

http://www.sjomannskirken.no/dm_pictures/PB050078_15996_949B2T_301x301.jpg

http://www.sjomannskirken.no/alanya

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 12:17 PM

Especially this 17 May we felt like we invaded from Norway ''National day of Norway celebrating in Alanya too''

I heard that they send in a petition to fly the Norwegian flag by the Atatürk's statue next time in May 17th. :)

tattooman

11-30-2009, 12:23 PM

http://www.cccb.org/rcs_gene/road-mecca03.jpg

Swiis people to the right please!

LineDoggie

11-30-2009, 12:24 PM

----------------------------

Ulytau

11-30-2009, 12:27 PM

I heard that they send in a petition to fly the Norwegian flag by the Atatürk's statue next time in May 17th. :)

Yep :D

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8936/alanyadayasayannorvecli.png

From same source used google translate;

Norveç Büyükelçisi Landsverk ise, "İlk kez Norveç dışında bir ülkede bu kadar çok Norveçli görüyorum. Burada bize gösterilen ilgi ve alakanın ardından vatandaşlarımızın neden Alanya'yı tercih ettiklerini anladım. Ayrıca yine ilk kez Norveç dışında bir ülkede kurtuluş bayramımız bu kadar büyük bir kalabalıkla kutlandı. Bu bana gurur verdi. Bize bu imkanı sağlayan ve bizimle birlikte olan yetkililere teşekkür ediyorum" diye konuştu.

Norveç Denizciler Kilisesi temsilcisi Papaz Audun Mynre de, ilçeye bir kilise açacaklarını ifade ederek, "Kiliseyi yerinde görmek için buraya geldik. Kutlamalar olduğunu duyunca tatilimizi uzattık. Gördüğüm manzara karşısında şok oldum. Türkiye gibi bir ülkede kurtuluş bayramımızın bu kadar büyük bir coşkuyla kutlanması, buradaki yerli halkın bize verdiği önem, Türkler hakkındaki görüşlerimi tamamen değiştirdi. Ben buradan tüm yetkililere teşekkür ediyorum" şeklinde konuştu.

Norwegian Ambassador to the Landsverk, "the first time outside of Norway in a country where so many Norwegians see. Here, the interest shown to us and relevance of our citizens then why Alanya would prefer I get it. Also for the first time outside of Norway in a country where our salvation holiday so a big crowd was celebrated . It gave me pride. providing us this opportunity with us and would like to thank the authorities, "he said.

Norwegian Seaman's Church, representative of King Mynre Audun, the county into a church open to express the "the church over here to see met. Celebrations have heard of our holiday we've extended. I see landscapes in the face of shocks to meet you. A country like Turkey in the liberation of our holiday so with a great enthusiasm to celebrate, here Give us the importance of indigenous peoples, the Turks had completely changed my opinion about. I'm here to thank all the authorities "as said

Ozzy[NO]

11-30-2009, 12:41 PM

Yep :D

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8936/alanyadayasayannorvecli.png

From same source used google translate;

"King Mynre Audun" hehe :)
The Norwegian Seaman's Church also has a church in Dubai by the way.

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 12:43 PM

;4591488']"King Mynre Audun" hehe :)
The Norwegian Seaman's Church also has a church in Dubai by the way.

How nice....

Ordie

11-30-2009, 12:47 PM

can you name some other western countries who 'voted' the same way?

California holds referendums all the time.

That is why we're in a mess and the courts throw out about half of them for being unconstitutional.

tattooman

11-30-2009, 12:49 PM

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 12:51 PM

i knew it from the begining, jews had some hand in the controversy!p-)

hey thats a nice photos of a highway in KSA, infidels to the right!

Ayub -al -Somal

11-30-2009, 12:52 PM

http://www.cccb.org/rcs_gene/road-mecca03.jpg

Swiis people to the right please!
rofl

That's not exactly the greatest of analogy here you know .
A swiss can be muslim , just like a brit , american, swede or french .
Secondly , anybody can turn left up there , it ain't like non muslims have the word "kafir" tattooed on their forehead .
It is the best of ensuring that the Law is observed for it is left to the each individual . Only YOU know what you are !

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 12:53 PM

http://www.cccb.org/rcs_gene/road-mecca03.jpg

Swiis people to the right please!

can anyone see the camel on the right road meant for infidels?

anyway muslims go to makkah, where the infidel road leads to? the Camel?

hulaku

11-30-2009, 12:55 PM

can anyone see the camel on the right road meant for infidels?

anyway muslims go to makkah, where the infidel road leads to? the Camel?

rofl

OMG I didnt see the camel.

Sharp eyes you've got.

Camels for the Kuffarsp-)

Muzungu

11-30-2009, 12:55 PM

California holds referendums all the time.

That is why we're in a mess and the courts throw out about half of them for being unconstitutional.

so Arnold led CA to independence?

i never knew CA was a western democratic country!rofl

Zeev

11-30-2009, 01:04 PM

anyway muslims go to makkah, where the infidel road leads to? the Camel?

Infidels car will hit the camel.

Allah's punishment for the non believers.

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 01:06 PM

Very interesting find related with the question:

Many seem to think like Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. In words spoken in 1997, Erdogan made mosque construction seem like part of a strategy of Islamization: "The minarets are our lances, the domes our helmets, the believers our army."

You can see here

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,565146,00.html

How ironic...when he was penalized for declaring such a stance against the secular system, it was Europeans who criticized us and supoorted him.

How ironic and hypocratic. :roll:

tattooman

11-30-2009, 01:10 PM

How ironic...when he was penalized for declaring such a stance against the secular system, it was Europeans who criticized us and supoorted him.

How ironic and hypocratic. :roll:

.......................................................................................

Not me

little icebear

11-30-2009, 01:24 PM

hehehe...I hear that in the near future, you locals will be minority there...and next elections, you might have a German governor there...

You folks need to listen to Erdo and make at least three babies..rofl

I for one am glad that we are turning the tables and retaliate in kind. p-)

It is about time that Bratwurst Buden will spawn across Turkey like Döner-Kebab Buden on German soil and throughout Europe.

4X4Driver

11-30-2009, 01:29 PM

I for one am glad that we are turning the tables and retaliate in kind. p-)

It is about time that Bratwurst Buden will spawn across Turkey like Döner-Kebab Buden on German soil and throughout Europe.

It prolly already has at least in Alanya..with the 10-15k Germans living there. :)

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 01:52 PM

Yeah but don't forget I'mOnlyHalfPolish's contribution to this thread.

Hitler, Jews AND Poles in a thread about Switzerland forbidding the construction of new minarets. Now there's just Putin missing and maybe the Chicoms and their respective perceived records of human rights for good measure.

I am an American. My father's family came to Texas in 1869 to escape the Prussians Kulturkampf. He spoke Polish fluently and some German, I do not (though I know several hundred words of German:)). Therefore, my views are not representative of "Poles"...

And, I do believe SOMEONE ELSE brought Jews into this conversation and I called his ass out on it. It was not me going OT but rather telling someone else they were OT.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 01:56 PM

Lol, where do you see Zeev defending communism. He only explained it's origins. And yes, socialism opened doors for jews (and not only jews,)in eastern Europe and Russia who were second class citizens and persecuted. As for the ideology what happened after Lenin's death, is another story.
You'reHalf-polish, yet 100% ready to hijack the thread into another "look at us Poles, we suffered so much under communism" ****storm.:roll:
As for Islamic fundamentalism, the counting of the deaths has only begun.
Just because you're unaffected it doesn't mean, that people suffer from it.
If you were living in israel or have relatives there you'd be more concerned.

Maybe because he was explaining that the Jews were one of the (or THE) most important group in bringing about Russian Communism because they were merely "defending" themselves. So, by extension, the Palestinians are "merely" defending themselves by blowing up buses loaded with civies...if I could add the emoticon with the rolling eyes it would go right here.

My family left Poland in 1869 to get away from the Prussians...I am an American. I chose the handle because people think that Poland is merely some punching-bag nation...which, I do not agree with and I am proud of my forefathers history.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:01 PM

Realistic. You don't live in europe right?

I do not. Where in Europe are you living now and how many years?

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:03 PM

Kinda like that. Thank you.

I've just explained why many eastern europe jews joined communism before WW2, because it was in their own interests to make this ideology growing (stop of the 2nd class citizen status, of the pogroms, etc) But I never promoted communism, I am very aware of Stalin crimes against the people of Soviet Union and I'm not at all communist, but after all, should I justify myself about that? :roll:

You are right. And the Palestinians have every right in the world to demand Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank. If that means launching rockets into civilians areas (sort of like Stalins henchmen carrying people off in the night, to gulags or killing them), then so be it. It is only in their best interests to defend their land and their rights.

When I am banned, I want everyone to remember who is the one who brought Jews and Communism into this thread. Please go back and read the thread.

Zeev

11-30-2009, 02:05 PM

Maybe because he was explaining that the Jews were one of the (or THE) most important group in bringing about Russian Communism because they were merely "defending" themselves. So, by extension, the Palestinians are "merely" defending themselves by blowing up buses loaded with civies...if I could add the emoticon with the rolling eyes it would go right here.

My family left Poland in 1869 to get away from the Prussians...I am an American. I chose the handle because people think that Poland is merely some punching-bag nation...which, I do not agree with and I am proud of my forefathers history.

Seriously are you that stupid?? Jews became commies because they were opressed and because that "humanist" ideology was a way to escape tzarist oppression, but let's not turn the things in the other way; they were the victims, and also, they never used terrorism or attacked russian civilians, I won't even mention that without the contribution of the main part of the russian orthodox population, communism would NEVER succeed, so viewing communism as a strickly jewish creation is just beyond dumb.

Zeev

11-30-2009, 02:06 PM

I do not.

So visit Paris suburbs with a kippa on your head, you'll have fun.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:07 PM

Not just him. 4-5 people pulled the Jew card for some reason.

Oh and btw Europeans killed 6Mio Jews didnt you know?

Pathetic.

They (I assume we are refering to the Nazis) killed 30 million Slavs too...whats your point...?

Zeev

11-30-2009, 02:08 PM

When I am banned, I want everyone to remember who is the one who brought Jews and Communism into this thread. Please go back and read the thread.

Everyone will remember that you were the one that used twisted arguments to show us your very personnal ideas about jews and communism.

kalerab

11-30-2009, 02:08 PM

They (I assume we are refering to the Nazis) killed 30 million Slavs too...whats your point...?

How did you guys come from minarets to Slavs, anyway?

Jarhead

11-30-2009, 02:12 PM

This tread delivers....stupidity.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:14 PM

So visit Paris suburbs with a kippa on your head, you'll have fun.

Visit South Central LA with a red shirt on...whats your point?

As for your earlier comments it was YOU who brought JEWS and COMMUNISM into this thread NOT me.

robot55

11-30-2009, 02:15 PM

I'm from Germany, but the very same discussion has taken place for some of "our" cities, e.g. Cologne. I appreciate the decision which has taken place, and I think I would have voted the same.

How can they call for things like minaretes, which are totally ignorant of our culture and traditions? It's a good thing if people can live out their faith in our country without repression. But the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I wouldn't be suprised if the people who think that their mosque doesn't work without a tower, are the very same who don't want to adapt the least bit to our society. Otherwise, they would not have had the audacity to call for minaretes in a country with a Christian background.

I mean if I were to live in a muslim country, I would try to respect the values of that country, even if I don't agree with all of them.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:15 PM

Everyone will remember that you were the one that used twisted arguments to show us your very personnal ideas about jews and communism.

Twisted arguments? You defended Jews participation in Communism by telling everyone they only did it to "defend" themselves which I equated with other groups defending their ideals and the horrible means they went about it.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:19 PM

How did you guys come from minarets to Slavs, anyway?

Because some people here are morons and bring up weird topics.

I have learned that by calling Zeev out on bringing Jews and Communism into a thread about minarets in Switzerland that I:

A) MUST be from Poland (which my location to the left there shows I am from Texas, which last time I checked was not in Poland)

B) Am a self-appointed defender of Poland and the Slavs as a people...???

C) That I am the one who in fact brought Nazis, Communism and Jews into the topic (I would really like to see where I was the one to bring these into the thread originally...?) because I was merely responding to some very stupid correlations and examples drawn up by some posters here.

D) Will more than likely be banned and deemed anti-Semitic when I am in fact anti-OT and anti-stupid comments...

hsh2

11-30-2009, 02:29 PM

They (I assume we are refering to the Nazis) killed 30 million Slavs too...whats your point...?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4589535&postcount=287

See?

Ozzy[NO]

11-30-2009, 02:29 PM

Visit South Central LA with a red shirt on...whats your point?

As for your earlier comments it was YOU who brought JEWS and COMMUNISM into this thread NOT me.

Comparing a gang-war with racial/religious hatred is just :roll:

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:38 PM

;4591773']Comparing a gang-war with racial/religious hatred is just :roll:

How?

They are both ideologies...?

No, please explain how they are different? I see two groups with ideologies they are willing to kill and/or die for...?

Zeev asked me about wearing Jewish fashion in the suburbs of Paris that have a high-percentage of Muslims who may (or in fact may not) try to hurt me for doing so? So what? Do not be where you KNOW you shouldn't be doing something you KNOW you shouldn't. Its in fact easier for me to be killed for wearing a certain colored shirt in an area in a major US city I KNOW I should not be in wearing that color...?

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:40 PM

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4589535&postcount=287

See?

Once again another dumb reference/logic I (attempted) to call someone out on. Thought it was you, haven't read every post in this thread, apparently it was Ordie who brought it up.

Ozzy[NO]

11-30-2009, 02:46 PM

How?

They are both ideologies...?

No, please explain how they are different? I see two groups with ideologies they are willing to kill and/or die for...?

Zeev asked me about wearing Jewish fashion in the suburbs of Paris that have a high-percentage of Muslims who may (or in fact may not) try to hurt me for doing so? So what? Do not be where you KNOW you shouldn't be doing something you KNOW you shouldn't. Its in fact easier for me to be killed for wearing a certain colored shirt in an area in a major US city I KNOW I should not be in wearing that color...?

The war between the criminal gangs in LA is an ideological one? OK....
If you don't see the difference between racial/religious hatred and hatred between two criminal gangs than I can't help you..sorry.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:48 PM

;4591819']The war between the criminal gangs in LA is an ideological one? OK....
If you don't see the difference between racial/religious hatred and hatred between two criminal gangs than I can't help you..sorry.

No, please go back and read what Zeev wrote. Then you will understand the context.

Of course it is ideological. Not every gang member is a rich drug dealer...

Mr.K

11-30-2009, 02:49 PM

From minatrets in switzerland to communist gangs in south central LA, well done!

Tyon

11-30-2009, 02:50 PM

How can they call for things like minaretes, which are totally ignorant of our culture and traditions? It's a good thing if people can live out their faith in our country without repression. But the line has to be drawn somewhere.

So our culture and traditions are that weak that they get destroyed by some towers? Oh boy...

I wouldn't be suprised if the people who think that their mosque doesn't work without a tower, are the very same who don't want to adapt the least bit to our society. Otherwise, they would not have had the audacity to call for minaretes in a country with a Christian background.

They are just some towers? I know cities where a minaret could make the city somewhat "beautiful". Essen couldn't be such an eyesore.

I mean if I were to live in a muslim country, I would try to respect the values of that country, even if I don't agree with all of them.

What values? Is there a hidden "grand european FAQ" which includes "no evil minarets"?
What the hell.

And seriously who gives a damn about some towers? On a continent where less and less people actually visit a church its suddenly all about our tradition?

You want tradition?
"All Religions are equal and good, if only the people that practice them are honest people; and if Turks and heathens came and wanted to live here in this country, we would build them mosques and churches.
Frederick II of Prussia"

A frickin minaret hurts no one. The whole "its a symbol of islamic conquest" is BS. By that logic the same goes for any religious building. And that kind of mind is not good for a secular country.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

11-30-2009, 02:52 PM