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ariweiner
07-06-2004, 12:18 AM
Tensions Flare When U.S.-Trained Iraqis Assert Their Independence

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, July 6, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD, July 5 -- After rumbling through Sadr City for much of the morning, a column of six U.S. military vehicles and a flatbed truck carrying Iraqi National Guard soldiers stopped in traffic next to an outdoor market. A child emerged from the roadside stalls, carrying a cardboard poster of Moqtada Sadr, the Shiite cleric whose strident criticism of the U.S. presence in Iraq has whipped up a large following.


On tiptoes, the child handed the poster to the Iraqi soldier manning a machine gun, as U.S. soldiers watched in dismay. The Iraqi soldier, part of a nascent security force trained and funded by the United States, held Sadr's picture aloft for a gathering, cheering mob. The convoy began moving through smoke rising from piles of burning trash on the streets of the Baghdad slum.

"If we took it from them now, this whole place would explode," said Sgt. Adam Brantley, 24, of Gulf Shores, Ala., watching from behind the wheel of a Humvee.

A week after the official handover of political authority from the United States, the Iraqi security forces are asserting, in disconcerting ways, their independence from the American soldiers who continue to serve as their protectors and patrons. Unable to shoulder Iraq's security responsibilities on their own, the Iraqi forces are nonetheless testing the limits of their new relationship with U.S. troops, including openly expressing sympathies for the most resolute enemies of the United States.

The Iraqi National Guardsmen who displayed the Sadr poster said they did so under threat of attack, and as a group they provided a useful security perimeter for the U.S. soldiers. In other regions of Iraq, more seasoned guard units have been given high marks by U.S. soldiers with the important task of training the new Iraqi security forces. On Sunday, in the city of Baqubah, 35 northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi National Guardsmen discovered a car bomb and two passengers fitted with suicide vests. In the ensuing gunfight, the car caught fire but did not explode. Both of the alleged attackers were killed.

The scene in Sadr City came a day after Sadr called on his followers to rise up against the interim Iraqi government and the foreign troops that remain in Iraq, reversing his previous stance. Sadr called the week-old interim Iraqi government "illegitimate," and promised to "continue resisting oppression and occupation to the last drop of our blood." But a Sadr aide, Mahmoud Soudani, said in Sadr City that a tenuous cease-fire with U.S. troops would remain in place, although the militia would not be disbanded until the Americans left the country.

The mixed messages left uneasy the soldiers of the 1st Cavalry Division based on an Army post at the edge of Sadr City. Earlier in the day, commanders received information from informants that Sadr's militia, known as the Mahdi Army, intended to end the cease-fire reached June 4 after two months of intense combat with U.S. forces. The fighting, which flared first in Sadr City, killed an estimated 1,500 Mahdi Army militants. The Iraqi police and national guard, then known as the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, fled rather than fight.

Many of Sadr's surviving militants congregated in Sadr City, a desperate slum of at least 2 million people named for Moqtada's slain father, a revered ayatollah. The end of the cease-fire would likely signal a fresh round of fighting at a time when U.S. forces are determined to maintain a lower profile on the streets, hoping to give the new government and its security forces time to establish their independence in the eyes of ordinary Iraqis. But doing so is posing its own challenges as notions of sovereignty bump up against U.S. security interests.

As the crowd thickened along the narrow market street, chanting and clapping at the encouragement of the Iraqi soldiers, a shower of rocks rained on Brantley's Humvee in a staccato clatter. The convoy sped away from the market, stopping beyond the crowd's view at the edge of a dump. Sgt. 1st Class Craig Allen, 34, called down the sweating Iraqi squad leader and demanded that he hand over the poster. Finally, after an angry toe-to-toe exchange, Allen had Sadr's picture in hand.

"We wonder how these guys would react in a firefight," Brantley said, shaking his head. "Most likely drop their weapons and run away."

Since the handover, U.S. commanders with responsibility for Sadr City have required that all patrols include members of the Iraqi National Guard, a paramilitary force envisioned as an auxiliary to the Iraqi police. Only recovery missions and escort operations can be carried out without Iraqi soldiers present.

Capt. Douglas Chapman, commander of Bravo Company attached to the division's 2nd Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, moved out Monday morning with four Humvees and two Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Sandwiched among them was a flatbed truck, boarded after a delay for breakfast by 15 of the newest Iraqi National Guard recruits on the post.

The convoy weaved among traffic-choked streets before parking on a wide concrete median strewn with garbage. Car repair shops lined one side of the busy road, and on the other a ditch the size of a football field opened up where a street once ran. A U.S.-funded water project began there two weeks ago, but there was not a single worker at the site.

An Iraqi interpreter, wearing sunglasses and a bandanna to conceal his identity, told Chapman that the workers had abandoned the project three days earlier. The disappearance served as a warning sign to U.S. commanders trying to fathom a murky urban war. In addition, the neighborhood children refused soldiers' offers of candy, dispensed from cargo pockets. One of them accepted a Blow Pop, only to hurl it at an Iraqi soldier.

"Ten minutes on, 10 minutes off," a shop owner lamented, referring to unreliable electricity supplies. Another man in a gray straw hat chimed in with his belief that the power is being diverted to other parts of Sadr City because of bribery. He brandished a thick stack of Iraqi dinars from his pocket to illustrate the point.


"Iraq's a sovereign nation now," Chapman told him. "This has always been up to your Ministry of Energy."

Then the children, who swarmed around the convoy, began chanting "Yes, yes, Sadr" as the troops headed toward the Humvees.

"They usually say this when we go," said Lt. Zach Swanson, 24, of Chicago. "They think it's some kind of victory."

Chapman, a 29-year-old from Great Valley, N.Y., said he was determined to resolve the electricity problem -- it was a "crucial quality of life" issue, he said, as summer temperatures push toward 120 degrees.

The convoy pulled up in front of a power station on the edge of Sadr City a half-hour later. Chapman, Swanson and the masked interpreter headed toward the entrance, where an Iraqi police officer in a pressed uniform manned the gate.

"Do you have permission to be here?" the officer asked Chapman, who if surprised did not show it. He replied yes, and a minute later the group walked toward the main building.

The three men inside the control room appeared unhappy to see Chapman, who greeted them politely before asking to see their handwritten logbook charting the amount of electricity going to each neighborhood. The antique dials and switches on the control panels gave the room the feeling of a vintage James Bond movie.

To encourage a greater sense of independence, Chapman scheduled a stop at the Habibiya police station to deliver a gift to the chief, Maj. Awad Fatlawi. It was an Iraqi flag, and Fatlawi unfolded it like a child unwrapping a Christmas present, then ordered a "Pepsi party" in his air-conditioned office while his officers jury-rigged a flag pole.

Chapman, Swanson and the interpreter, who kept the bandanna firmly on his face, sipped the cold sodas on couches lining the walls. A few floors above, several Iraqi police officers kissed the red, white and black flag before fixing it to a long stick and wiring it to the railing.

"No one gives us any weapons," Fatlawi complained to Chapman. "It is the same in every police station. We all need weapons."

Further questioning revealed that Fatlawi had a number of AK-47 assault rifles, but that there are no bullets for the 9mm pistols tucked in his officers' waistbands. Fatlawi made clear, however, that he wanted rocket-propelled grenade launchers and heavy machine guns to be able to hold off an attack. Chapman grimaced, but indicated those supplies would now come, if they come at all, through Iraq's Interior Ministry.

"Have there been any civilians helping at the checkpoints?" Chapman asked.

"No, we don't need any help," Fatlawi said, brushing away the suggestion. "Maybe they were only helping direct traffic."

Chapman made his rounds like a cop working a beat, taking the good with the bad. Then the convoy passed through the market in the center of the neighborhood, and the Iraqi soldiers gleefully waved Sadr's poster. U.S. soldiers, furious at the display, believed the demonstration incited the crowd against them.

"They've got to at least put it down," yelled Pfc. Austin Twombly, 20, of Deerfield, N.H., from the Humvee's gunner's nest as people pressed closer to the convoy. He yelled at them to do so, but they did not.

Later, defending himself in the face of several angry U.S. soldiers, the Iraqi squad leader said the child warned him to take the poster or the convoy would be attacked. "Weak leader," Allen, the sergeant, screamed at him. Chapman stepped between the men.

Back at the camp, Chapman described the challenge he faces in placing limits on Iraqi troops in a country not his own.

"They can move forward however they want," Chapman said. "We just asked them to stop displaying the picture. They can support whoever they want on their personal time."

The poster, folded in half, remained in the back of Brantley's Humvee.

gilgoul
07-06-2004, 03:10 AM
It sounds pretty frustrating for the servicement up there.

What has to be understood is that the allegiances and priorities are completely different from tha west.
First and foremoist, and it is true from mauritania to Irak, but especially true in the Machrek, the eastern part of the arabo islamic sphere, the Clan, or Chamula.
Clanic alegiance means that your supreme comander, afetr god itself, is your clan (extended, very very extended families and network of family alliance)
This rule suffers no exepction, and in some place this determine your future and qualitiy of life much more than personal factor.
It`s not for nothing that authoritarian regimes in the MO are based this way, The Ahlaoui in Syria, who are a sect of Islam, and were a mistreated minoriy reached power with Afez al Assad, and since then their clans control both Syria and Lebanon, same thing with Saddam Hussein, who from his hometown of Tikrit reached power and then advanced the interests of his extended clan rather than Irak as a Nation.
The same thing is unfortunately to be expected from the next rulers, who might be more "easy" on those issues but are nevertheless bound by their respective chamula to advance local ambitions and chamula`s nterest.
Just my two agorot. :oops:

rokus2595
07-06-2004, 03:14 AM
A child emerged from the roadside stalls, carrying a cardboard poster of Moqtada Sadr, the Shiite cleric whose strident criticism of the U.S. presence in Iraq has whipped up a large following.

On tiptoes, the child handed the poster to the Iraqi soldier manning a machine gun, as U.S. soldiers watched in dismay. The Iraqi soldier, part of a nascent security force trained and funded by the United States, held Sadr's picture aloft for a gathering, cheering mob.

hmmmm, what were the latest polls coming from Iraq saying about Sadr?? oh yeah, that the majority of Iraqis now view him favourably; the reason being because his followers fought the occupiers....why is this fact NEVER discussed when talking about Sadr?


The scene in Sadr City came a day after Sadr called on his followers to rise up against the interim Iraqi government and the foreign troops that remain in Iraq, reversing his previous stance. Sadr called the week-old interim Iraqi government "illegitimate," and promised to "continue resisting oppression and occupation to the last drop of our blood."

Why is it that the majority of Iraqis view the Americans as occupiers? Who's more indoctrinated? the Iraqis living the occupation, or us here being told that America has occupied Iraq so that it can destroy WMD..oh never mind..ahhh..it is so that the US can bring democracy to that God forsaken land? rofl rofl but no, tens of thousands of Iraqis have died and then we wonder why they hate us....


Unable to shoulder Iraq's security responsibilities on their own, the Iraqi forces are nonetheless......openly expressing sympathies for the most resolute enemies of the United States.

There are two dimensions to the Security problem in Iraq: one is the lack of security that allows criminals to commit crimes against civilians (kidnappings, robberies, murders, etc etc), and the other is the one created by the Americans occupying Iraq, and the reactions of Iraqis to fight off this occupation.

Western media only addresses the first part, and does it by using the argument that because the iraqis themselves can't deal with the security issue, hence the US has to stay in Iraq until the situation improves.

Improves until when? protecting civilians can be acomplished if you have enough policemen; but protecting the occupiers from attack is a completely different problem, which can obviously be solved by the Occupiers leaving Iraq. To argue that the situation could deteriorate further if the Americans leave is like saying "I know i have my boot on his neck, but don't really want to take it off in case he bleeds further. It is simply stupid.


As the crowd thickened along the narrow market street, chanting and clapping at the encouragement of the Iraqi soldiers, a shower of rocks rained on Brantley's Humvee in a staccato clatter.

...hmmm, i don't know what meaning that may have in Iraq, but here in Canada, and i think the States is the same, throwing rocks is a sign of great, and i repeat, great displeasure towards the intended target....:roll:


"We wonder how these guys would react in a firefight," Brantley said, shaking his head. "Most likely drop their weapons and run away." For sure! who would want to defend the occupiers?



"Iraq's a sovereign nation now," Chapman told him. "This has always been up to your Ministry of Energy."

Yes, repeat a thousand times and then you might believe it. Or maybe not. Specially when the occupiers are still in Iraq.


"They usually say this when we go," said Lt. Zach Swanson, 24, of Chicago. "They think it's some kind of victory."


It's called defience (bold resistance to an opposing force or authority)


Back at the camp, Chapman described the challenge he faces in placing limits on Iraqi troops in a country not his own.

Why is he in a foreign country placing limits on its people???? When you are in another country, either you are a guess or you are an invader. And if you have to put limits on its people, then you are an invader. Simple as that.


"They can move forward however they want," Chapman said. "We just asked them to stop displaying the picture. They can support whoever they want on their personal time."

Sure, as if that is going to erase what Sadr stood and fought for.



Interesting article ariweiner

Argyll
07-06-2004, 07:19 AM
Sadr is not in control of the Mahdi Militia,they never listened to him when he told them all to go home,and their struggle was over,as for Sadr having overwhelming support amongst the whole of Iraq is total ****e,he's a Shia Cleric,the Kurds hate him,as do the Sunni's,he's lost the plot here,and if you're privy to the Intelligence and 1st hand accounts then you'd know.

Sadr city(used to be known as Saddam City) so it's easy to figure why the place is a hotbed.

As for projects getting abandoned......everything shut down here for 10 days to assess the situation after the handover,today I was in one of the Ministries,and I can tell you that there were a lot of people inside,not employess,who greeted you with a smile and a handshake,and the offer of hot tea was there if we wanted it..........stuff that the media fails to show,the work behind the scenes.......stuff that the ariweiners of this forum will never get to see in a month of Sundays,but I see every day.

Baghdad has been pretty calm this last 10 days,it's still a warzone,but people still go about their daily business,just like the rest of the human race.....they have families to feed.

It's so easy to sit in the comfort of your own home spending hours searching the net for negative stuff to post here,but unless you see it with your own eyes ,the ordinary daily chores,then people like ariweiner will always use something negative about Iraq.

Rokus maybe you can tell us the latest Polls,and where they were conducted and by whom,because Polls here are a waste of time until the 3 factions can sit down without wanting to kill each other.
and seeing as you're such an expert perhaps you can enlighten us all to exactly what Sadr was fighting for?
This is the same Sadr who was responsible for the killing of the top Iraqi Shia Cleric..................or did you forget that.Perhaps you could also explain the breadth and depth of your own 1st hand accounts of what really happens here in Baghdad or Iraq for that matter,whens the last time you sat down with some locals and shared their enthusiasm that Saddam Hussein is no longer in power?

ShotOver
07-06-2004, 08:02 AM
I personally don't understand why Airweiner hasnt been cleaned out with the rest of the garbage.. heh

Argyll mate, hang in there. I hope those huge ball of yours don't stand in your way of doing your job, haha.
Keep up the good work.

rokus2595
07-06-2004, 06:01 PM
Rokus maybe you can tell us the latest Polls,and where they were conducted and by whom,because Polls here are a waste of time until the 3 factions can sit down without wanting to kill each other.



Hostility towards the Americans was also reflected in strong support for the rebel Shia leader, Muqtada Sadr, who galvanised the resistance to the occupation in April.

His blend of religion and populism has proved popular The CPA's poll shows that 67 per cent of Iraqis say they support or strongly support him, making him the most popular man in the country after the Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. A total of 81 per cent of Iraqis had an improved opinion of Sadr in May from three months earlier, and 64 per cent said the acts of his insurgents had made Iraq more unified

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=7752&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported




and seeing as you're such an expert perhaps you can enlighten us all to exactly what Sadr was fighting for?

I'm definitely not an expert on pretty much anything, but i can sure read...for example...


The scene in Sadr City came a day after Sadr called on his followers to rise up against the interim Iraqi government and the foreign troops that remain in Iraq, reversing his previous stance. Sadr called the week-old interim Iraqi government "illegitimate," and promised to "continue resisting oppression and occupation to the last drop of our blood."

pertinent part in red and bolded, taken from the article that ariweiner posted...


This is the same Sadr who was responsible for the killing of the top Iraqi Shia Cleric..................or did you forget that.
Why was Abd al-Majid al-Khoei killed? and what sources do u use to say that Sadr was responsible for his killing?


An Iraqi judge has released an arrest warrant for Moqtada Sadr in connection with the death of a moderate Shia leader, Abdul Majid al-Khoei, in April 2003, just two days after the fall of Baghdad.

Moqtada Sadr strongly denies any role in the murder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3131330.stm





Another opposition Shi'ite cleric, Sheikh Abd al-Majid al-Khoei, was murdered in Najaf in April, a few days after returning from exile in London. He had actively supported US intervention in Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1032153,00.html






Perhaps you could also explain the breadth and depth of your own 1st hand accounts of what really happens here in Baghdad or Iraq for that matter,whens the last time you sat down with some locals and shared their enthusiasm that Saddam Hussein is no longer in power? Yes, and I sure, you as part of the Occupying forces in Iraq, sure get genuine 1st hand accounts of what really happens in Iraq. :cantbeli:

GrantT
07-06-2004, 06:09 PM
you as part of the Occupying forces in Iraq, sure get genuine 1st hand accounts of what really happens in Iraq.

Argyll works for a company not for the "occupying forces" and just so you know the Multi National Forces in Iraq aren't occupiers anymore they are in Iraq by invitation of the government. I don't really want to speak for Argyll but he is in contact with Iraqis everyday and sure as hell knows what he's talking about.