Yemen's last Jews set to flee country

[Snoshi]

Israeli sources confirmed on Thursday Yemeni media reports that the overwhelming majority of the final remnant of Yemen's ancient Jewish community, numbering some 250 people, are looking to leave the country due to persecution and violence.

"About 120 of the Yemeni Jews want to move to Israel, 100 want to move to the US" - where there is a small Yemenite Jewish community - "and between 20 and 30 want to stay," the source said, citing information obtained from the community.

Some of the Jews wishing to leave are unable to do so because they are having trouble selling their property, the source said.

Saba, Yemen's official state news agency, reported Wednesday on a "mini-exodus" of Jews from the country "triggered by alleged harassment" and "fear of persecution."

The article quoted Rabbi Yahya Yaish, chief rabbi of the Ridah and Amran districts, who said that "all Jews in the area are preparing to leave for Israel within the next [few] days."

Yaish is the brother of Moshe Yaish al-Nahari, a community leader who was murdered in December by a local man who demanded that he convert to Islam. Nahari's three daughters moved to Israel shortly after his murder, while his three sons made aliya in recent days with the help of the Jewish Agency, according to reports in the Yemeni media. His killer was sentenced to death in June.

According to Saba, Yaish warned that "harassment has been stepped up against Jews in the districts of Amran and Kharef, with some of the Jews killed and others kidnapped."

Violent attacks and persecution have been a regular experience of Yemen's tiny Jewish community in recent years, against the backdrop of tensions and an anti-government insurrection in the northwestern part of the country, in the province of Saada, where a Muslim religious minority affiliated with Shi'ite Islam has been clashing with government forces since 2004.

Most Yemeni Jews lived in nearby Amran province before fleeing either to protected compounds in the capital city of Sana'a or to Israel or the US. Those who remain offer easy targets for zealots.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418604352&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

[2495]

No Snoshi! That got to be a lie! Every one knows that the Jews are welcome in all Muslim countries, and no muslim would ever advocate violence against a jew - It must be true becuase the BBC in the UK said so!

.....

[GB_FXST]

A very wise decision indeed.

[OrangeWolf]

Finally they leave, so the people their can continue their tribal conflicts. I love Temani Jews! Too bad those religious fanatics have tricked some of them in not going to Israel though...

[bbsh]

malawach, mm.

[Satorius]

No Snoshi! That got to be a lie! Every one knows that the Jews are welcome in all Muslim countries, and no muslim would ever advocate violence against a jew - It must be true becuase the BBC in the UK said so!

.....


Jewish communities lived in Islamic countries for centuries. If there had been no Jewish expansion in Palestine, Jews would continue to live in all the Arabian countries.

[Elbs]

Jewish communities lived in Islamic countries for centuries. If there had been no Jewish expansion in Palestine, Jews would continue to live in all the Arabian countries.

So these people are being persecuted just because Jews in other places are doing something the locals don't like? That's comforting :roll:

[2495]

So these people are being persecuted just because Jews in other places are doing something the locals don't like? That's comforting :roll:

Its the religion of tolerance and peace Elbs,... didn't you get the 'we come in peace' memo?

[GiladS]

Jewish communities lived in Islamic countries for centuries. If there had been no Jewish expansion in Palestine, Jews would continue to live in all the Arabian countries.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

[Peanut]

Its the religion of tolerance and peace Elbs,... didn't you get the 'we come in peace' memo?


Yes, because you have been to a muslim country, and have interacted with the people there right?, taking their opinions on Jews.

I'm sure there was a group of extremists harassing the Jewish community, and its sad to see that the Yemeni Government could not do anything about it.

There are a good number of Jews that live in many Islamic countries, and have no problems with it.

Just look at the Jewish community in Iran. Keep making Ignorant comments, its making you look very smart on the subject.

[el borracho]

Related thread about the same topic:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155774

[2495]

Just look at the Jewish community in Iran. Keep making Ignorant comments, its making you look very smart on the subject.

I LOL'd at your dumbness.


Iran's official government-controlled media often issues anti-Semitic (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/antisem.html) propaganda. A prime example is the government's publishing of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/prototoc.html), a notorious Czarist forgery, in 1994 and 1999.2 (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html#2) Jews (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html) also suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and public accommodations.3 (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html#3)

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

Fvck I laughed. Peanut. How apt. Did you also know in Iran it is illegal for a Muslim to vote for a Jew in elections? ...... thats real nice of them...

Oh and lets not forget the Shiraz Jews trumped up spy charges in 1999...

as for other muslim nations? In Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Iraq — countries where more than 485,000 Jews lived before 1948 — fewer than 2,000 remain peanut.

[GiladS]

There are a good number of Jews that live in many Islamic countries, and have no problems with it.


What would you consider a "good number"?

In 1948 some 981,000 Jews lived in the following countries: Maroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran/Persia.

As of 1976, 55,000 remained in these countries... my guess that since then the number hasn't increased.

[Peanut]

I LOL'd at your dumbness.



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

Fvck I laughed. Peanut. How apt. Did you also know in Iran it is illegal for a Muslim to vote for a Jew in elections? ...... thats real nice of them...

Oh and lets not forget the Shiraz Jews trumped up spy charges in 1999...

as for other muslim nations? In Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Iraq — countries where more than 485,000 Jews lived before 1948 — fewer than 2,000 remain peanut.


Funny isn't it, when I've actually been in Iran's Jewish community, and have talked to many of them. Real good people, and they're perfectly content with where they live. They interact very well with the locals, and are treated the same as anybody else.

Your previous statement already proves to me that your ignorant. I'm not going to debate this with somebody that has no first hand knowledge.


The Constitution of Iran says that Jews are equal to Muslims.
In June 2007, there were reports that wealthy expatriate Jews established a fund to offer incentives to Iranian Jews to emigrate to Israel. Few took them up on the offer.
Iran has one of only four Jewish charity hospitals in the world. The hospital has received donations from top Iranian officials, including President Ahmadinejad. Kosher butcher shops are available in Iran. There are Hebrew schools and coeducation is allowed.Jews are conscripted into the Army like all Iranian citizens. Many Iranian Jews fought during the Iran-Iraq war (1980-1988) as drafted soldiers. About 15 were killed. It has been reported that Jews in Iran are proud of their heritage. Thus, they have not settled in Israel despite being encouraged by some groups.

I'm not defending Extremists Muslims, I'm not even a Muslim myself. I just find it funny how you associate mainstream Islam with the extremist minorities.

[Peanut]

What would you consider a "good number"?

In 1948 some 981,000 Jews lived in the following countries: Maroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran/Persia.

As of 1976, 55,000 remained in these countries... my guess that since then the number hasn't increased.


Theres a big difference between the Jews that live in Arab countries, and Jews that live in Iran. The people there accept the Jewish community, you would be surprised at how well the Jewish community is doing in Iran, despite the fvcked up government.

[OrangeWolf]

In a country where the President has to be a shia Muslim to even be accepted as a candidate, there is no equality you speak off.

[Peanut]

In a country where the President has to be a shia Muslim to even be accepted as a candidate, there is no equality you speak off.

I'm talking about how well they're accepted as a community by the general population.

[JJC]

Funny isn't it, when I've actually been in Iran's Jewish community, and have talked to many of them. Real good people, and they're perfectly content with where they live. They interact very well with the locals, and are treated the same as anybody else.
Did you visit your family in the Jewish community or were you an outsider tourist?

[GiladS]

Theres a big difference between the Jews that live in Arab countries, and Jews that live in Iran. The people there accept the Jewish community, you would be surprised at how well the Jewish community is doing in Iran, despite the fvcked up government.

Yet out of the 100,000 that lived there in 1948 some 25,000 remain.

I have no doubt that currently the majority of Iranians are very enlightened, open minded and intelligent people.

But lets not fool ourselves, the regime is still an Islamic theocracy and that makes things bad both for the Jews and the general population in Iran.

[GB_FXST]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

Good reference. Dhimmitude does not make for peaceful coexistence, especially for those forced to live as second class citizens.

[Peanut]

Did you visit your family in the Jewish community or were you an outsider tourist?


A little bit of both. I'm an ethnic Iranian born in the U.S. I've only visited Iran a couple of times to see some family, including the ones in the Jewish communities.

[JJC]

A little bit of both. I'm an ethnic Iranian born in the U.S. I've only visited Iran a couple of times to see some family, including the ones in the Jewish communities.
I don't identify myself with Persian Jews, but my father's lineage is of both Iranian and Afghan Jews (Tehran and Herat.) By the Sha times all of his relatives from Tehran have either moved to Israel or the U.S. On the surface it always looks stable and livable, but Iranian Jews there live on cyclical luck. What I hear from Iranian Jewish students in the U.S. is that especially with in last 5 years it has been getting worse for them politically. The neighbors can be friendly and all but that doesn't mean that there is no harrasment and pressures from government or outside groups. The story is all similar to Jews of Soviet Union and other countries, where there were periods of stability and visiting oustiders saw peace and harmony but that was all on the surface.
Not everyone can or is willing to move to another country. I know people that were involed in trying to convince the last remianing Jew of Afganistan to move. He had all the oppartunity to move but even under Taliban beatings he wouldn't and still lives there.

Iranian Jews are not under dire threat like the Yemenites have become, but who knows what the distant future will hold. Yemenite Jews never thought that their thousand year old roots would vanish in that country, but chapter is almost complete.

[Peanut]

Iranian Jews are not under dire threat like the Yemenites have become, but who knows what the distant future will hold. Yemenite Jews never thought that their thousand year old roots would vanish in that country, but chapter is almost complete.

Very sad to see such a group of people, with so much history and culture be outed because of the actions of a group of religious idiots.

[OrangeWolf]

Very sad to see such a group of people, with so much history and culture be outed because of the actions of a group of religious idiots.

I doubt they leave just because of a few nutjobs, it is the mentality of the society as a whole which makes a minority feel terrible enough to leave. It's a good thing though, I couldn't think of one thing which would make choose Yemen over Israel if I had to move to one of the two. Now I haven't been to Yemen but from what I have read the landscape is great, but that's about it. The Yemenite Jewish cuisine kicks ass, but nowadays it is in Israel. Thank goodness the Temanis have been given the possibility to better their lives to the best of their abilities instead of living a restricted life under the "protection" of a hateful society.

[kahn267]

whenever people give the whole Palestinian arguement about their homes being taken when they "fled" etc, its easy to rebutt with the countless possessions and land property that has been taken from the the countless Jews from Iraq to Iran to Yemen to Egypt

Its a shame that with the leaving of these Jews... so does their long history

[matthew.manhorn]

Do those ancient Jews in Yemen contribute much to the Yemen economy? Or are they just a bunch of religious rabbis

[RoyB]

Do those ancient Jews in Yemen contribute much to the Yemen economy? Or are they just a bunch of religious rabbis
What's your problem? :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

whenever people give the whole Palestinian arguement about their homes being taken when they "fled" etc, its easy to rebutt with the countless possessions and land property that has been taken from the the countless Jews from Iraq to Iran to Yemen to Egypt

Its a shame that with the leaving of these Jews... so does their long historyIt is a great tradegy indeed and one as sorrowful as all the other seizures of land in the region.

[Big Lebowski]

What would you consider a "good number"?

In 1948 some 981,000 Jews lived in the following countries: Maroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran/Persia.

As of 1976, 55,000 remained in these countries... my guess that since then the number hasn't increased.
Could this possibly be because a jewish state was created and they wanted to move there -and not because they were forced out?

[RoyB]

Could this possibly be because a jewish state was created and they wanted to move there -and not because they were forced out?
Hmm.. no?
You don't see all the current Jews abroad running quickly to Israel's arms, don't you?

[GiladS]

Could this possibly be because a jewish state was created and they wanted to move there -and not because they were forced out?

Historical research doesn't support this assertion... especially when considering the amount of property that was left behind by these communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

[GB_FXST]

Hmm.. no?
You don't see all the current Jews abroad running quickly to Israel's arms, don't you?

It is a shame, may be even a disgrace, that the majority of Diaspora Jews do not have more solidarity with Israel.

[GiladS]

It is a shame, may be even a disgrace, that the majority of Diaspora Jews do not have more solidarity with Israel.

There is a difference between solidarity and practical Aliyah to Israel.

I don't expect well founded Jewish communities in friendly western democratic states to just up and leave (North America being a prime example).

And when you do see people from such countries make Aliyah based solely on ideology, then these would usually be young people or newly formed famalies. The more adult population will find it much harder to build new lives in another country, though Jewish but still with a different culture and language than the one they know.

In the case of the Mizrahi Jews you saw mass Aliyah of whole communities including the elderly. Not only did they leave their lives behind but also most of their assets.

[GB_FXST]

Historical research doesn't support this assertion... especially when considering the amount of property that was left behind by these communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands


Here is some more history about Operation Magic Carpet.

AlaskaAir played a central role in the safe and successful evacuation of thousands:

http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/History/MagicCarpet.asp (http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/History/MagicCarpet.asp)

http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/history/CarpetPilots.asp (http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/history/CarpetPilots.asp)

[GB_FXST]

There is a difference between solidarity and practical Aliyah to Israel.

I don't expect well founded Jewish communities in friendly western democratic states to just up and leave (North America being a prime example).

And when you do see people from such countries make Aliyah based solely on ideology, then these would usually be young people or newly formed famalies. The more adult population will find it much harder to build new lives in another country, though Jewish but still with a different culture and language than the one they know.

In the case of the Mizrahi Jews you saw mass Aliyah of whole communities including the elderly. Not only did they leave their lives behind but also most of their assets.

No argument at all.

My comment is not related to aliyah per se, but rather, frustration with the apparent erosion of solidarity amongst American Jewry. I do not want to stir the political pot, but I am really referring to the emergence of groups like J Street, and the apparent inability to critically evaluate national political figures.

[JJC]

My comment is not related to aliyah per se, but rather, frustration with the apparent erosion of solidarity amongst American Jewry. I do not want to stir the political pot, but I am really referring to the emergence of groups like J Street, and the apparent inability to critically evaluate national political figures.
The solidarity should be a two way street. In post Zionist movement, younger generations except the religious one, can not identify with Israel as something special to them than any other country. If they have a Jewish identity they hang out in their JCCs or a synagogue. Younger generation can't relate to "Israeli" v. you American Jews. J Street is less crazy than Betzelem or other Israeli groups with similar views. So, J Street is irrelevant in measuring solidarity.

[GB_FXST]

The solidarity should be a two way street. In post Zionist movement, younger generations except the religious one, can not identify with Israel as something special to them than any other country. If they have a Jewish identity they hang out in their JCCs or a synagogue. Younger generation can't relate to "Israeli" v. you American Jews. J Street is less crazy than Betzelem or other Israeli groups with similar views. So, J Street is irrelevant in measuring solidarity.

I disagree, it is not a two way street.

The solidarity of American Jewry should be axiomatic. It should be integral to the ideological outlook of American Jews. I do not mean to say that everyone should be born quoting Jabotinsky and become a member of Betar. And, I do not mean to imply that American Jews should exhibit dual loyalty or even worse disloyalty to the US.

But, the concept of a vital, strong and secure Israel should be self evident.

The concept that Israelis living in Israel are the best and sole judges of how to create and maintain a vital, strong and secure Israel should also be self evident.

It was for me. Now, my parents are Israeli, and Hebrew was my mother tongue growing-up in Chicago. Nonetheless, amongst my Jewish non-Israeli peers the same could be said. Their connection may not have been as deep; they may not have gone to all the rallies or participated in the youth groups (old schmutznik here), but there was always an affinity, a special closeness.

I fear that affinity is now lost. J Street is just one example; Americans For Peace Now, yet another example; Rabbis Fasting For Gaza is yet another, even more odious, example. I can go on. Btselem, however, is a different animal as that is an Israeli organization.

One core problem is education, or the lack thereof. American Jewry may no longer truly understand of the importance of Israel to Jews worldwide.

For the record, Israel does have an outreach program. The Birthright program is an attempt to bridge the gap between Diaspora youth and Israeli youth.

http://www.birthrightisrael.com/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main (http://www.birthrightisrael.com/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main)

[GiladS]

I wouldn't worry so much...

But I am convinced that those Jews who stand aside today with a malicious smile and with their hands in their trousers' pockets will also want to dwell in our beautiful home.
Theodor Herzl

[GB_FXST]

I wouldn't worry so much...

But I am convinced that those Jews who stand aside today with a malicious smile and with their hands in their trousers' pockets will also want to dwell in our beautiful home.
Theodor Herzl



I do.

Good, prophetic quote.

But is it applicable today?

Who, American Jews or Israelis, is on the threshold of an unprecedented existential threat?

Who, American Jews or Israelis, voted for a man incapable of contending with that threat?

[GiladS]

Who, American Jews or Israelis, is on the threshold of an unprecedented existential threat?

Who, American Jews or Israelis, voted for a man incapable of contending with that threat?

I fear that the assimilation among the American Jews and the loss of any sort of differentiating aspects of Jewish identity are much worse than any threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb, Hizbollah rockets or Syrian chemical attacks.

Secular Jews who wish to retain their Jewish identity will need to eventually find their way to Israel.

Just my opinion.

[GB_FXST]

I fear that the assimilation among the American Jews and the loss of any sort of differentiating aspects of Jewish identity are much worse than any threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb, Hizbollah rockets or Syrian chemical attacks.

Secular Jews who wish to retain their Jewish identity will need to eventually find their way to Israel.

Just my opinion.

I do not disagree …

Bleak and depressing possibilities either way …

[Yop]

I do.

Good, prophetic quote.

But is it applicable today?

Who, American Jews or Israelis, is on the threshold of an unprecedented existential threat?

Who, American Jews or Israelis, voted for a man incapable of contending with that threat?

Unprecedented existensial threat? What are you talking about? Ask Israelis who witnessed the period before the 6 Day War what really is an existential threat.

[LazerLordz]

Do those ancient Jews in Yemen contribute much to the Yemen economy? Or are they just a bunch of religious rabbis

You cannot quantify ethnic or religious diversity. The last line is plainly disrespectful.

So if an ethnic group does not contribute to economic success, they are unwelcome?:roll:

[GB_FXST]

Unprecedented existensial threat? What are you talking about? Ask Israelis who witnessed the period before the 6 Day War what really is an existential threat.

You are right that the period leading up to the Six Day War was a period of terrible trepidation and palpable fear. Israel was seemingly powerless and leaderless in the face of an imminent threat, namely a combined ground invasion by numerous Arab armies equipped with state of the art Soviet weapons. Some facts that come quickly to mind:

- Nasser compliments his fiery rhetoric with provocative action, causing casus belli.

- Jordan and Syria place their armed forces under Egyptian command.

- LBJ essentially tells Eshkol that Israel will stand alone if it acts alone.

- LBJ’s efforts for an international coalition to break the blockade of the Straits of Tiran are futile.

- UN withdrawal from Sinai and general uselessness.

- De Gaulle pulling out French support for Israel.

- Eshkol stuttering in the midst of an address to the nation.

- Eshkol’s comments about a nebbish Samson.

- Officials prepared for losses in the tens of thousand, and seriously considered public parks as cemeteries.

By all accounts those were terrible bleak days.

So you are absolutely right, modern Israel has already faced and prevailed over imminent existential threats.

Now, the days are not so bleak; fear is not palpable. Of course, the differences between now and then are significant. Israel is much stronger, and has the ability to project much more power much farther. (However, nuclear deterrence may have already been an option then too.)

However, the nature of the emerging threat is unlike any of its predecessors.

Ahmadenijad (and the Supreme Council behind him) have a different underlying motive than Nasser. Nasser was a secularist who cloaked himself in pan-Arabism. Ahmadenijad is a religious zealot.

That fact combined with Iran’s emerging nuclear power constitutes an unprecedented existential threat.

Nasser’s armies would have had to slog it out by land, fighting for every inch. The resultant loss of men and material would be relatively inconsequential to the countries of Egypt and Syria, especially considering the reward.

Ahmadenijad will only have to give an order to press a button. The resultant loss of Iranian life (due to a counter-strike) would be substantial and consequential.

The key question now becomes whether or not the potential loss of millions of Iranian lives in a nuclear exchange deters or encourages the Mullahs in Iran?

I for one do not believe that MAD deters Iran. To the contrary, there is a real risk that it may actually encourage them.

[OrangeWolf]

That one guy who said he met Iranian Jews probably not met with Yaghoghil Shaolian, the Jewish teen who is charged now in Iran's after-demonstration show trials. He probably isn't even a political activist.

By the way the website says the first time an Iranian Jew has been convicted since 2000. That's pretty impressive for 25,000 people. Whether they are less likely to do crime (whatever the word "crime" is worth when it comes to Iran's judicial system) or just the Mullah regime being an authoritarian bunch of wacko's who make anyone scared enough to do anthing I don't know. Probably both.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418615051&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

That one guy who said he met Iranian Jews probably not met with Yaghoghil Shaolian, the Jewish teen who is charged now in Iran's after-demonstration show trials. He probably isn't even a political activist.

By the way the website says the first time an Iranian Jew has been convicted since 2000. That's pretty impressive for 25,000 people. Whether they are less likely to do crime (whatever the word "crime" is worth when it comes to Iran's judicial system) or just the Mullah regime being an authoritarian bunch of wacko's who make anyone scared enough to do anthing I don't know. Probably both.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418615051&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFullI don't know who to believe on the subject of Irans Jews the family I know in the UK go back often and are treated well yet my Zorastian relatives will not go due to fear of persecution.

[Snoshi]

Like i wrote in other topics.. Iran needs to treat its Jews well for PR reasons.. That way they can claim that they LOVE the Jews, but hate the State of Israel.. This is good excuse used by many anti-semits.. "I hate Israel, but i have a Jewish friend!" type of thing.

[OrangeWolf]

Like i wrote in other topics.. Iran needs to treat its Jews well for PR reasons.. That way they can claim that they LOVE the Jews, but hate the State of Israel.. This is good excuse used by many anti-semits.. "I hate Israel, but i have a Jewish friend!" type of thing.

It's more like a "if you don't be too out in the open and express too many views, we'll protect you a bit", while minimizing the holocaust and flirting with KKK figures. Simply unacceptable. I'd have to say making aliyah is the only acceptable choice.

[Diogenes]

I read a book years ago that claimed Iraqi Jews were forced to emigrate to Israel by a bomb barrage planted by Israeli intelligence. The author was an Israeli. Later i found same claims in modern Israeli authors who are called anti patriotic. I will try to remember the book title.

[Diogenes]

here
http://www.archive.org/download/Ben-gurionScandals--HowTheHagannahAndTheMossadEliminatedJews/giladi.pdf

[GB_FXST]

here
http://www.archive.org/download/Ben-gurionScandals--HowTheHagannahAndTheMossadEliminatedJews/giladi.pdf

A tin-foil hat society special. Because it is written does not make it so.

[GiladS]

I read a book years ago that claimed Iraqi Jews were forced to emigrate to Israel by a bomb barrage planted by Israeli intelligence. The author was an Israeli. Later i found same claims in modern Israeli authors who are called anti patriotic. I will try to remember the book title.

The bombings in question occurred after the citizenship relinquishment act of 1950 had already expired and therefore no Jews could register for exit. Also the two Zionist operatives hanged were never charged with the Masouda Shem-Tov Synagogue Bombing, but rather three unrelated bombings which occurred later.

This blood libel was most probably conceived in Iraqi police headquarters (capitalizing on the Lavon Affair) and has been spread as the truth by anti-Zionists such as Giladi.

[Diogenes]

The bombings in question occurred after the citizenship relinquishment act of 1950 had already expired and therefore no Jews could register for exit. Also the two Zionist operatives hanged were never charged with the Masouda Shem-Tov Synagogue Bombing, but rather three unrelated bombings which occurred later.

This blood libel was most probably conceived in Iraqi police headquarters (capitalizing on the Lavon Affair) and has been spread as the truth by anti-Zionists such as Giladi.


thanks for the info-i am not sure i understand the term blood libel. Because of the victims?

[GiladS]

thanks for the info-i am not sure i understand the term blood libel. Because of the victims?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

[Diogenes]

A tin-foil hat society special. Because it is written does not make it so.

However, at least one activist from the Zionist underground, Yosef Beit-Halahmi, did apparently carry out several terror attacks after the arrest of his comrades, in the hope of proving to the Iraqi authorities that the detainees were not involved in these actions. This is the first time someone involved in the episode is confirming that members of the Zionist underground did commit bombings in Baghdad.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=703367

[GiladS]

However, at least one activist from the Zionist underground, Yosef Beit-Halahmi, did apparently carry out several terror attacks after the arrest of his comrades, in the hope of proving to the Iraqi authorities that the detainees were not involved in these actions. This is the first time someone involved in the episode is confirming that members of the Zionist underground did commit bombings in Baghdad.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=703367

Even if this is the case, how can Israel be held accountable for such actions?

[GB_FXST]

However, at least one activist from the Zionist underground, Yosef Beit-Halahmi, did apparently carry out several terror attacks after the arrest of his comrades, in the hope of proving to the Iraqi authorities that the detainees were not involved in these actions. This is the first time someone involved in the episode is confirming that members of the Zionist underground did commit bombings in Baghdad.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=703367


I think it is important to quote the entire paragraph.




Now, a recent publication is shedding new light on the mystery. The revelations come from Yehuda Tager, an Israeli agent who operated in Baghdad, was exposed and spent about 10 years in prison there. According to Tager, the bombing of the Masuda Shemtov synagogue was not carried out by Israelis, but by members of the Muslim Brotherhood. However, at least one activist from the Zionist underground, Yosef Beit-Halahmi, did apparently carry out several terror attacks after the arrest of his comrades, in the hope of proving to the Iraqi authorities that the detainees were not involved in these actions. This is the first time someone involved in the episode is confirming that members of the Zionist underground did commit bombings in Baghdad.



A terribly wide chasm still separates the actions of Halahami from Naeim Giladi’s assertions. I do not think that you get there from here.

[Diogenes]

Even if this is the case, how can Israel be held accountable for such actions?

it can't be accountable if we accept the fact that Israeli intelligence did not had any connections or control on the Zionist underground.

[RoyB]

What's the Zionist underground?

[Diogenes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel


tnx for the clarification

[kkbou]

"I hate Israel, but i have a Jewish friend!" type of thing.


Sorry maybe a bit off-topic , but is the condition for calling a jew a friend, the complete acceptance of the state of israel?

[GB_FXST]

Sorry maybe a bit off-topic , but is the condition for calling a jew a friend, the complete acceptance of the state of israel?

I, myself, do not expect my friends to blindly accept all of Israel’s actions. But, I would not consider anyone who denies Jews the right of self determination to be a friend of me personally or the Jewish people.

I question the true motives of anyone who says that they support the Jewish people, but de-legitimize Israel or deny Israel's right to exist.

[Diogenes]

I, myself, do not expect my friends to blindly accept all of Israel’s actions. But, I would not consider anyone who denies Jews the right of self determination to be a friend of me personally or the Jewish people.

I question the true motives of anyone who says that they support the Jewish people, but de-legitimize Israel or deny Israel's right to exist.


Personally i don't set any kind of qualification or an obstacle course to a person who wants to be my friend. Just to be a civil and descent human being.

If we don't agree on political subjects that's another story. You have arguments against arguments. The problem arises when you want the person to share your view of things and vice versa.

I have requirements about females but this would be a huge off topic discussion.:)

[OrangeWolf]

Personally i don't set any kind of qualification or an obstacle course to a person who wants to be my friend. Just to be a civil and descent human being.

If we don't agree on political subjects that's another story. You have arguments against arguments. The problem arises when you want the person to share your view of things and vice versa.

I have requirements about females but this would be a huge off topic discussion.:)

Put it this way, if I wanted to hang out with you but seriously believed Greece should not exist and Greeks, of all people, have absolutely no right to their own country, would you still pass me the ouzo?

Just for the record, I have nothing against Greece or Greeks, quite the contrary.

[Diogenes]

Put it this way, if I wanted to hang out with you but seriously believed Greece should not exist and Greeks, of all people, have absolutely no right to their own country, would you still pass me the ouzo?
.


Sure i would pass not only ouzo but custom made tsipouro from Thessaly. :)
Why to be mad at you? Greece was and will be here for thousands more years.

There is the documented story about the Cretan (lone survivor of a Nazi execution) who offered Cretan tsikoudia to a Nazi who visited Greece post war and was a member of a unit that formed an execution squad that killed his fellow villagers.

[OrangeWolf]

Sure i would pass not only ouzo but custom made tsipouro from Thessaly. :)
Why to be mad at you? Greece was and will be here for thousands more years.

There is the documented story about the Cretan (lone survivor of a Nazi execution) who offered Cretan tsikoudia to a Nazi who visited Greece post war and was a member of a unit that formed an execution squad that killed his fellow villagers.

Right, well dude then you're just too nice. :)

I would sure as hell not be very friendly to someone who believes my people deserve no self-determination. Anyway's let's not go too much off-topic.

[timetraveller]

From whats been posted thus far nothing has been mentioned about the Yemeni Troops whom have been Fighting against Milita forces if thats the correct term and people are fleeing the region due to be caught in the middle .


And the discussion itself has gone off road Is it not supposed to be about of what happening in Yemen ...

[GiladS]

And the discussion itself has gone off road Is it not supposed to be about of what happening in Yemen ...

Why should it only be about what's going on in Yemen?

The state of the Yemenite Jews represents a much wider process which spans the whole of the Middle East.

[GB_FXST]

Personally i don't set any kind of qualification or an obstacle course to a person who wants to be my friend. Just to be a civil and descent human being.

If we don't agree on political subjects that's another story. You have arguments against arguments. The problem arises when you want the person to share your view of things and vice versa.

I have requirements about females but this would be a huge off topic discussion.:)

If you do not mind my asking, how old are you?

My question is not of disrespect, but curiosity, for you speak in the language of youth and idealism.

[Diogenes]

If you do not mind my asking, how old are you?

My question is not of disrespect, but curiosity, for you speak in the language of youth and idealism.

No problem, I am 34.

The reason we Greeks exist is this idealism in friendship and other aspects of life.

As for the youth issue i am certainly less hardliner that i a was in my 20s.

[GB_FXST]

No problem, I am 34.

The reason we Greeks exist is this idealism in friendship and other aspects of life.

As for the youth issue i am certainly less hardliner that i a was in my 20s.

Thank you for your candor. Very interesting. While my outlook is obviously different, I respect, and even admire, your outlook on life.

[Diogenes]

Thank you for your candor. Very interesting. While my outlook is obviously different, I respect, and even admire, your outlook on life.

Thanks a lot friend.

[OrangeWolf]

It's unfair that this has to happen but, perhaps it's for the best for those people.

My opinion too, Temani Jews deserve a lot better than Yemen in its current situation. And from my personale experience they have a lot more capabilities than a dhimmi life in ****ty Yemen. Besides, malawah is super nice, this is not debateable.

[GiladS]

'US State Department resettles 60 Yemini Jews in rescue op'

By JPOST.COM STAFF (updates@jpost.com)

Amid a rise in anti-Semitic violence and terrorist activity in the country, the US State Department recently spirited nearly 60 Yemini Jews from Yemen and resettled them in the United States, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

According to the report, nearly 350 Yeminite Jews lived in the country before the operation. Those who have already moved to the US are likely to be joined by 100 more, while the remaining number will most likely move to Israel.

"If we had not done anything, we feared there would be bloodshed," Gregg Rickman, former State Department Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism, told the paper.

In August, Israeli sources confirmed that the overwhelming majority of the final remnant of Yemen's ancient Jewish community was looking to leave the country.

"About 120 of the Yemeni Jews want to move to Israel, 100 want to move to the US," a source told the Jerusalem Post. "And between 20 and 30 want to stay."
Some of the Jews wishing to leave are unable to do so because they are having trouble selling their property, the source said.

Violent attacks and persecution have been a regular experience of Yemen's tiny Jewish community in recent years, against the backdrop of tensions and an anti-government insurrection in the northwestern part of the country, in the province of Saada, where a Muslim religious minority affiliated with Shi'ite Islam has been clashing with government forces since 2004.

Haviv Rettig Gur contributed to this report.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1256799053139&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[OrangeWolf]

Have those douchebags from Satmar been actively convincing some to go to the US instead of going back to Israel?

[commanding]

I sometimes wish we could take the entire Arab and Jewish population of the world and thru some kind of Hollywood Sci-Fi futuristic mind meld we could erase the centuries of violence and hatred that has been fomented thru history...start with a "clean slate" and see how things would go.

I mean...I know most likely the majority of Iranians, Jordanians, Afghans, Iraqis, and Israelis are good and decent folks, and really only want their kids to grow up to have a better future and a happy life.

Sure there are some scumbags in every society, ethinicity, etc, but crap it would be so much easier to expend all the energy spent on violence and hatred towards others merely because of their religion or ethnicity, spend that on good things, like building good roads, having better food, doing away with various childhood illness etc.

Sure it's okay to punish criminals. But why the hate toward other groups merely because they aren't as religious as you?
<end of rant.....know it's dumb, but heh>

[apadana]

I LOL'd at your dumbness.



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

Fvck I laughed. Peanut. How apt. Did you also know in Iran it is illegal for a Muslim to vote for a Jew in elections? ...... thats real nice of them...

Oh and lets not forget the Shiraz Jews trumped up spy charges in 1999...

as for other muslim nations? In Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Iraq — countries where more than 485,000 Jews lived before 1948 — fewer than 2,000 remain peanut.
The fact that your only able to post a pro-Israeli source only illustrates how biased your opinion is . The Iranian constitution grants religious freedom to Jews and also guarantees political representation in the Iranian parliament. Meaning that there is at least one Jew in the Iranian parliament , if a Jew wants to run representing his city in the Iranian parliament he has the constitutional right. Also Jews can worship their religion in the many freely operated synagogues across Iran. They are allowed to practice in Hebrew at Jewish schools. They are allowed to operate their own hospitals. In fact, one of Tehran’s most popular hospital is run by the Jewish community and most patients are Muslims. Get your facts right before you post any further propaganda. And Israel has arrested Iranian spies just as Iran as arrested Israeli spies. Iran has one the oldest Jewish communities in the world and Iran has a lot of Jewish history. Don’t try to portray Iran as a NAZI state just because you don’t like the people running the country. In fact, Israel could learn a thing or two from Iran in terms if coexistent between Jews and Muslims because we all know how Arabs Israelis are treated as second class citizens and are routinely harassed by some Israeli Jews.

[RoyB]

Don’t try to portray Iran as a NAZI state just because you don’t like the people running the country. In fact, Israel could learn a thing or two from Iran in terms if coexistent between Jews and Muslims because we all know how Arabs Israelis are treated as second class citizens and are routinely harassed by some Israeli Jews.
Maybe you should get your facts right.
Talking about coexistent, how are the homo******s in Iran are doing?
Please don't try to compare Israel and Iran. because anyone living in Israel, of any religion or ethnic group, is getting much more freedom and rights than he/she would have got in Iran, or any other Islamic country for that matter.
Quite ironic if you ask me.

PS,
Please enlarge and change your font.

[Sada]

I know nothing about Yemen´s jews, but I find like martian stories depicting arabs countries as antijewish. Jews have lived before and after Muhammad in arab countries and being a respected people among arabs, they didn´t receive a different treatment compared with other people. There were riots and waves of attacks agaisnt them in a span of 1300 years in different arab places, not more serious than riots and massacres among muslims factions or agaisnt chrisitan communities, never they faced in arab countries the violence of Europe in last century. I know more about jewish from North Africa, actually the few spanish jews I know came all from there. If most of them, better said their grandparents, have left that region is not because they were persecuted. West North Africa(Algeria and Marroq) was colonized by France and in a lesser portion by Spain, there were old jewish communities there and they aren´t now there, progroms? No, just taking opportunities for leaving poor underdevolopped countries and living better in the metropolitan colonial power, a chance given to them as "sefardies", something that never was given to descendants of spanish moriscos. I remember reading an article in a spanish newspaper written by a jew journalist, he complained sadly about the liquidation of jewish community in the spanish protectorate in Marroq in the 50s of last century(few years before Marroq declared itself independent), he blamed the franquist regime, how not!, of listening the isrealies emissaries to recruit jewish population sending them by force to a dangerous territory of the Middle East. It seems as the question is complaining about anything, but complaining, sadly you can´t be in two places simultaneously, so if you choose living in Madrid or Haifa in the place of your old home in Xauen, no more jews in N.Africa anymore, anyway I was there and still are jews living in Marroq, they would find insultating all this nonsenses. Interesting to mention that this things happened 20 or 30 years before Spain recognized officially the state of Israel and with Franco well buried. Many jewish came quietly from Marroq to Spain in the Protectorate years, I suppose many more went to France from south Marroq and Algeria and another considerable contingent went to Israel, in many cases not with pleasure if we give the reason to the journalist. This is called "economic migration" in this part of the world.

[apadana]

Maybe you should get your facts right.
Talking about coexistent, how are the homo******s in Iran are doing?
Please don't try to compare Israel and Iran. because anyone living in Israel, of any religion or ethnic group, is getting much more freedom and rights than he/she would have got in Iran, or any other Islamic country for that matter.
Quite ironic if you ask me.

PS,
Please enlarge and change your font.

Do you want to change the subject? Are we talking about coexistence between Jews and Muslims or are we adding homo******s , neo-Nazis, Atheists to the mix? Are you denying that Arab-Israelis are treated as second class citizens? Or do you want me to post some non-biases articles proving my point?

[SeanAshi]

Sada most Arab Jews were forced out in response when Israel was re-established as a state in 1948, a tit for tat I guess.

apadana both are treated like second class citizens overall but Israeli Arabs have more religious freedom then Persian Jews. There are more Muslims in Israel's knesset then Jews in Iran's parliament.

[RoyB]

Do you want to change the subject? Are we talking about coexistence between Jews and Muslims or are we adding homo******s , neo-Nazis, Atheists to the mix? Are you denying that Arab-Israelis are treated as second class citizens? Or do you want me to post some non-biases articles proving my point?
Saying that they are being treated as second-class citizens would be wrong, considering that they have the same rights as any other citizen in Israel, they are being represented in the Knesset, and so on and so on..

[OrangeWolf]

Let's go along with the taken dumbass who has made it his obsession to talk trash about Israel for a minute. Let's say Israeli-Arabs are treated as second class citizens.

How about the Arabs in Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia?

And no, this is not a typical A is bad but B is worse comment:

I am asking if it is second class to be exempt from conscription, given allowances and cash to study, have your religion and language recognized by the government, allowed to vote, allowed to set up a political party, allowed to be paid by the Tel Aviv University (whatever its name is) and then go abroad on the uni's cash to call for the dismantling (read: destruction) of the state which has granted you a better life compared to your Arab brothers and sisters in most Arab countries.....

I am willing to call this second-class citizens for the sake of going along with your cliche choice of words.

But then do tell me if all these freedoms comparable to Western European standards are second class, what class are the Arabs in their own countries?

Or for that matter, what class am I in my own country? Because if I add up the list of facts it kinda sums up my freedom as a native Dutch.

If you don't get the question I am willing to hear thru another page of cliche Israel-bashing nonsense to elaborate... :)

[OrangeWolf]

Saying that they are being treated as second-class citizens would be wrong, considering that they have the same rights as any other citizen in Israel, they are being represented in the Knesset, and so on and so on..

x2 exactly.

[GiladS]

I know nothing about Yemen´s jews, but I find like martian stories depicting arabs countries as antijewish. Jews have lived before and after Muhammad in arab countries and being a respected people among arabs, they didn´t receive a different treatment compared with other people. There were riots and waves of attacks agaisnt them in a span of 1300 years in different arab places, not more serious than riots and massacres among muslims factions or agaisnt chrisitan communities, never they faced in arab countries the violence of Europe in last century. I know more about jewish from North Africa, actually the few spanish jews I know came all from there. If most of them, better said their grandparents, have left that region is not because they were persecuted. West North Africa(Algeria and Marroq) was colonized by France and in a lesser portion by Spain, there were old jewish communities there and they aren´t now there, progroms? No, just taking opportunities for leaving poor underdevolopped countries and living better in the metropolitan colonial power, a chance given to them as "sefardies", something that never was given to descendants of spanish moriscos. I remember reading an article in a spanish newspaper written by a jew journalist, he complained sadly about the liquidation of jewish community in the spanish protectorate in Marroq in the 50s of last century(few years before Marroq declared itself independent), he blamed the franquist regime, how not!, of listening the isrealies emissaries to recruit jewish population sending them by force to a dangerous territory of the Middle East. It seems as the question is complaining about anything, but complaining, sadly you can´t be in two places simultaneously, so if you choose living in Madrid or Haifa in the place of your old home in Xauen, no more jews in N.Africa anymore, anyway I was there and still are jews living in Marroq, they would find insultating all this nonsenses. Interesting to mention that this things happened 20 or 30 years before Spain recognized officially the state of Israel and with Franco well buried. Many jewish came quietly from Marroq to Spain in the Protectorate years, I suppose many more went to France from south Marroq and Algeria and another considerable contingent went to Israel, in many cases not with pleasure if we give the reason to the journalist. This is called "economic migration" in this part of the world.

And suddenly... a wall of words out of nowhere! p-)


I know nothing about Yemen´s jews, but I find like martian stories depicting arabs countries as antijewish.

Then I guess you should do some reading about the ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Arab countries.



Jews have lived before and after Muhammad in arab countries and being a respected people among arabs, they didn´t receive a different treatment compared with other people.


Sorry but that's a misconception.

Perhaps in the past Jews were better off in a lot of Arab lands in comparison to the Jews living among the Chrisitians but that's not to say that the Arab/Muslim world was free of xenophobia.

Read about the Dhimmi status.


There were riots and waves of attacks agaisnt them in a span of 1300 years in different arab places, not more serious than riots and massacres among muslims factions or agaisnt chrisitan communities, never they faced in arab countries the violence of Europe in last century.

So basically you are saying that Jews in Arab/Muslims lands suffered from xenophobia but not at a larger extent than any other non-Muslim community and not as severe as in Europe... oh well I guess that makes it alright then. :roll:

[apadana]

Saying that they are being treated as second-class citizens would be wrong, considering that they have the same rights as any other citizen in Israel, they are being represented in the Knesset, and so on and so on..

Jews have representation in the Iranian parliament but you consider them as not treated fairly. But I guess the Israeli kneset is so holy and pure that having Arabs in it should be considered an honor for Israeli Arabs. Like I said, it’s no secret that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens by Israeli Jews. Just one example, Arab football players are routinely harassed with racist remarks by the more Israeli citizens ( Jews) . In Iran, we had a few Jewish players in our national team , we have 2 Christians in our national team right now and they are considered the lions of Iran just as the Muslim players. Our fans don’t distinguish players based on their religion .

[apadana]

Let's go along with the taken dumbass who has made it his obsession to talk trash about Israel for a minute. Let's say Israeli-Arabs are treated as second class citizens.

How about the Arabs in Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia?

And no, this is not a typical A is bad but B is worse comment:

I am asking if it is second class to be exempt from conscription, given allowances and cash to study, have your religion and language recognized by the government, allowed to vote, allowed to set up a political party, allowed to be paid by the Tel Aviv University (whatever its name is) and then go abroad on the uni's cash to call for the dismantling (read: destruction) of the state which has granted you a better life compared to your Arab brothers and sisters in most Arab countries.....

I am willing to call this second-class citizens for the sake of going along with your cliche choice of words.

But then do tell me if all these freedoms comparable to Western European standards are second class, what class are the Arabs in their own countries?

Or for that matter, what class am I in my own country? Because if I add up the list of facts it kinda sums up my freedom as a native Dutch.

If you don't get the question I am willing to hear thru another page of cliche Israel-bashing nonsense to elaborate... :)

OK let’s talk about this illiterate uneducated post. If you had any reasoning behind your judgment and were not biased you should say why are people brining up Iran into this argument when we are talking about Yemenis Jews but you’re so biased that when you hear the name ISRAEL you get all defensive and biased that you’re willing to say anything and I mean anything to defend Israel .
No one here is claiming that Saudi Arabia, Egypt , or any ARAB country is fair and not prejudice . But people here are claiming that Israel is a fair , democratic country that treats all its citizens fairly but that’s not the truth. Israel does not treat all her citizens fairly. And lastly, in a Democracy church and state are separated but religion is in every aspect of Israeli politics so it can’t be a true Democracy .

[GiladS]

Jews have representation in the Iranian parliament but you consider them as not treated fairly. But I guess the Israeli kneset is so holy and pure that having Arabs in it should be considered an honor for Israeli Arabs. Like I said, it’s no secret that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens by Israeli Jews. Just one example, Arab football players are routinely harassed with racist remarks by the more Israeli citizens ( Jews) . In Iran, we had a few Jewish players in our national team , we have 2 Christians in our national team right now and they are considered the lions of Iran just as the Muslim players. Our fans don’t distinguish players based on their religion .

So because of some hooligans making racist remarks (that's rare :roll:) Israel has a policy of mistreating its Arab citizens?

I guess you wouldn't mind me mentioning Iran's part in trageting Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AMIA_bombing


Ah but that happend in Argentina so I guess it doesn't count...

[GiladS]

Israel does not treat all her citizens fairly. And lastly, in a Democracy church and state are separated but religion is in every aspect of Israeli politics so it can’t be a true Democracy .

Israeli Arab citizens have the same rights as any Jewish Israeli and apart from your rather pathetic attempt to grasp at straws by bringing racist remarks at soccer matches as an example of them being "second class citizens", you haven't really managed to make a case.

As for the issue of separation of church and state that's just so funny comming from someone living in Iran which is a known theocracy. rofl

Israel may not have a separation of religion and state but so do other well known democracies such as Finland and the UK.

[apadana]

So because of some hooligans making racist remarks (that's rare :roll:) Israel has a policy of mistreating its Arab citizens?

I guess you wouldn't mind me mentioning Iran's part in trageting Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AMIA_bombing


Ah but that happend in Argentina so I guess it doesn't count...



Why do you want to change subjects when you have little or nothing to say? What are we talking about here the treatment of the alleged citizens of a country or are we talking about bombings here? One thing I noticed is that your still very young 21 and that explains your short attention span and the basic knowledge you have about the situation in the ME. Its obvious that your using GOOGLE to come up with your baseless arguments. I have lived in Iran, traveled to Israel and most nations in the ME. For god sakes, I have heard from my fellow Iranian Jews who now live in Israel that even they are treated badly by the European Jews. There is so much social attention in Israel that people are degraded and disrespected. Lastly , like I said you have a short attention span and I don’t blame you since your only 21 but if you read my post I said JUST ONE EXAMPLE about the Arab football players. There are hundreds more.

[apadana]

Israeli Arab citizens have the same rights as any Jewish Israeli and apart from your rather pathetic attempt to grasp at straws by bringing racist remarks at soccer matches as an example of them being "second class citizens", you haven't really managed to make a case.

As for the issue of separation of church and state that's just so funny comming from someone living in Iran which is a known theocracy. rofl

Israel may not have a separation of religion and state but so do other well known democracies such as Finland and the UK.


And they are not treated the same. Would you like me to post some articles , books, and blogs that illustrate the fact that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens?
And did I say Iran was a Democracy? You find one post where I said Iran was a Democracy and then I will call you the expert of the Middle East. And in the UK and Finland Church and state are not separated on paper but they are in practice. Its not seprated on paper because their history and traditions. Whereas in Israel it’s both on paper and practice. Plus there is a push to officially separate church and state in those nations but in Israel most if not all political/social/economic decisions are heavily influenced by religion.

[GiladS]

Why do you want to change subjects when you have little or nothing to say?

Not changing the subject... just demonstrating the irony of you portraying Iran as a tolerant country when its regime has been behind terrorist attacks against Jews.



One thing I noticed is that your still very young 21 and that explains your short attention span and the basic knowledge you have about the situation in the ME.


Bringning my age as an issue seems like another attempt by you to grasp at straws instead of providing real arguments.

And yeah, I have a short attention span for BS... don't think it has something to do with my age.


Its obvious that your using GOOGLE to come up with your baseless arguments.

If my arguments are baseless then you shouldn't have a problem debunking them... so far you have only come up with bringing up my age and the fact that like 99% of other people on this board I use a web search engine.



I have lived in Iran, traveled to Israel and most nations in the ME. For god sakes, I have heard from my fellow Iranian Jews who now live in Israel that even they are treated badly by the European Jews.


Considering the status of relations between Iran and Israel since 1979, I very much doubt that you could have travelled to Israel lately. Unless of course you don't live in Iran.

I guess you have some sort of logical explanation.

As for speaking to Persian Jews in Israel, wouldn't surprise me as a lot of people who are first generation in the country tend to feel deprived and mistreated due to cultural differences and the usual hardships of leaving what you know. Also if they had it so good back in Iran then why did they leave in the first place?

I have plentry of friends who are second generation Persian Jews living in this country and I think it's better that you talk to them.



if you read my post I said JUST ONE EXAMPLE about the Arab football players. There are hundreds more.


And you couldn't have provided a better example?

[GiladS]

And they are not treated the same. Would you like me to post some articles , books, and blogs that illustrate the fact that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens?


Do what you like.



And did I say Iran was a Democracy? You find one post where I said Iran was a Democracy and then I will call you the expert of the Middle East.

I didn't state that... just found it funny that while arguing in Iran's defense you bring up this issue.



And in the UK and Finland Church and state are not separated on paper but they are in practice. Its not seprated on paper because their history and traditions. Whereas in Israel it’s both on paper and practice. Plus there is a push to officially separate church and state in those nations but in Israel most if not all political/social/economic decisions are heavily influenced by religion.


Perhaps yet Jews are an ethnoreligious group and Israel is a Jewish state

So in any case, Israel which is a rather young country is still adapting its character in this sense.

Yet that doesn't change the fact that it is a parliamentary democracy.

[apadana]

Not changing the subject... just demonstrating the irony of you portraying Iran as a tolerant country when its regime has been behind terrorist attacks against Jews.

If you want to talk about bombings and killing innocent people we can discuss in another thread because it deserves it’s on topic and don’t pretend as if Israel is innocent and doesn’t have any blood on its hand. Like I said, changing the subject only shows that you have a weak argument .

Bringning my age as an issue seems like another attempt by you to grasp at straws instead of providing real arguments.

And yeah, I have a short attention span for BS... don't think it has something to do with my age.Your age is very important when compared to mine and older members who have actually lived in the ME , traveled throughout the Middle East. When you were born I was in College in Iran. I lived through important events that you only read after doing a GOOGLE search . Living through an event means a lot more then reading the headlines about that event .




If my arguments are baseless then you shouldn't have a problem debunking them... so far you have only come up with bringing up my age and the fact that like 99% of other people on this board I use a web search engine.
Its ok to use GOOGLE once in a while but not for every argument like you have been doing. You only read the headlines but if you research the details of subjects on the Middle East you would be more realistic than biased.





Considering the status of relations between Iran and Israel since 1979, I very much doubt that you could have travelled to Israel lately. Unless of course you don't live in Iran.

I guess you have some sort of logical explanation.


You see posts like this only further affirm that you have little knowledge about the issues you pretend to be an expert at. Iranian Jews can travel to Israel as they wish. Thousands do it , I know hundreds who have done it , I have done it and we all do it the same way. Watch this video from Minute 2 , Baba Moses is a good guy , I have went to his shop many times on Vali Asr and talked to him about all issues. Here is a Australian Documentary about Iranian Jews which he was in for a short segment. He talks about Iranian Jews being able to travel to Israel. But Australians are anti-Israeli and are making up a story right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbkmHf3jZUo
And If you read my posts you would know I still live in Iran and travel back and forth. I have a business/home in Iran .

As for speaking to Persian Jews in Israel, wouldn't surprise me as a lot of people who are first generation in the country tend to feel deprived and mistreated due to cultural differences and the usual hardships of leaving what you know. Also if they had it so good back in Iran then why did they leave in the first place?
Because they were told Israeli is the best country in the world. In fact, I know a lot of older Iranian Jews who have returned to live in Iran after their experience in Israel .

I have plentry of friends who are second generation Persian Jews living in this country and I think it's better that you talk to them.so its better to talk to the people who you like? If that’s not biased I don’t know what is. This is getting ridiculous .






And you couldn't have provided a better example?It’s a good example because Jewish players are not treated like Arab players by the fans. What so bad about that example?

[GiladS]

If you want to talk about bombings and killing innocent people we can discuss in another thread because it deserves it’s on topic and don’t pretend as if Israel is innocent and doesn’t have any blood on its hand.

Feel free to open a thread if you like, I have debated these sort of subjects to death already.


Your age is very important when compared to mine and older members who have actually lived in the ME , traveled throughout the Middle East. When you were born I was in College in Iran. I lived through important events that you only read after doing a GOOGLE search . Living through an event means a lot more then reading the headlines about that event .

As an Israeli I have had the "pleasure" of living through quite a few events myself, even in my short 21 years.

I have at least learned in my 21 years not to presume to know people I have never met face to face as you do, I simply stick to referring to their arguments.


Its ok to use GOOGLE once in a while but not for every argument like you have been doing. You only read the headlines but if you research the details of subjects on the Middle East you would be more realistic than biased.

And where have I used Google in every single argument so far in our debate?

I only referred to a certain source once with you and you have been dancing on this ever since.


You see posts like this only further affirm that you have little knowledge about the issues you pretend to be an expert at. Iranian Jews can travel to Israel as they wish. Thousands do it , I know hundreds who have done it , I have done it and we all do it the same way. Watch this video from Minute 2 , Baba Moses is a good guy , I have went to his shop many times on Vali Asr and talked to him about all issues. Here is a Australian Documentary about Iranian Jews which he was in for a short segment. He talks about Iranian Jews being able to travel to Israel. But Australians are anti-Israeli and are making up a story right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbkmHf3jZUo
And If you read my posts you would know I still live in Iran and travel back and forth. I have a business/home in Iran .

I was aware that Jews could travel to Israel, didn't know that you are Jewish.



Because they were told Israeli is the best country in the world. In fact, I know a lot of older Iranian Jews who have returned to live in Iran after their experience in Israel .


And I know hundreds who haven't... so what's your point?


so its better to talk to the people who you like? If that’s not biased I don’t know what is. This is getting ridiculous .

My point was simple.

You argued that Jews who moved to Israel from Iran are being mistreated because they are Persian Jews, I only suggested that you should talk to the the younger more integrated generation and see that this has nothing to do with their origin but rather the mentality of their parents.


It’s a good example because Jewish players are not treated like Arab players by the fans. What so bad about that example?

Because it's a rather pathetic example.

You can find examples of racism in soccer matches all across Europe but I guess Iran is a lot more enlightened than they are.

[apadana]

Feel free to open a thread if you like, I have debated these sort of subjects to death already.If you debate it like you are right now then what’s the point? There is no point in debating a person who can’t see the reality , it’s like debating with a wall .




As an Israeli I have had the "pleasure" of living through quite a few events myself, even in my short 21 years.

I have at least learned in my 21 years not to presume to know people I have never met face to face as you do, I simply stick to referring to their arguments.Obviously not as many events as the older members on this site and elsewhere. Events in the pass are what’s makes the Middle East what it is today. I tend to listen and learn from the experiences of people who are older than I am. I argue about their point of view but I don’t pretend to know more than them if they do in fact are knowledgeable about the issue they talk about. And I don’t presume I know you , but what I do know is that your heavily biased which prevents you from seeing the reality. If Israel drops a nuke on a innocent country for no reason you would be one of those people who would find the slightest reason to justify it .




And where have I used Google in every single argument so far in our debate?

I only referred to a certain source once with you and you have been dancing on this ever since.
I am saying in general you tend to use GOOGLE to make your arguments. Most of your arguments don’t come from your mind or heart but rather from GOOGLE.




I was aware that Jews could travel to Israel, didn't know that you are Jewish. Did you not say “Considering the status of relations between Iran and Israel since 1979, I very much doubt that you could have travelled to Israel” ? Isn’t that implying that Iranians cant travel to Israel freely? It doesnt matter if your jewish or not because Iranian passports doesnt list your religon.



And I know hundreds who haven't... so what's your point?
My point is that Israel which considers itself to be the home of Jews is far from it. A lot of Jews who have tried to live in Israel were disappointed and returned.




You argued that Jews who moved to Israel from Iran are being mistreated because they are Persian Jews, I only suggested that you should talk to the the younger more integrated generation and see that this has nothing to do with their origin but rather the mentality of their parents.According to you the mentality of their parents gives the abusers the right to disrespect them and treat them differently. I thought in a Democracy all people can coexist no matter what their beliefs, traditions, religion are but I guess you have to be part of the younger generation to fully benefit from a Democratic Israel.




Because it's a rather pathetic example.

You can find examples of racism in soccer matches all across Europe but I guess Iran is a lot more enlightened than they are.
Yes you can find racism in sports all over the world but its politicized like it is in Israel. Israeli fans are racist against their so called compatriots because of their backgrounds which is politicized by the Israeli-Arab conflict. You don’t see Malouda or the numerous black French national players get disrespected by the French fans at the same level as Israeli fans treat their own Arab players. Plus I gave you an example of Iranian minority players , if Iran is so prejudice and backward than why are they not disrespected? We have Arabs, Turks, Armenians, Kurds, Zortash and we had Jews who took part in sports across majority Persian Iran but they were treated the same as others because we have learned to coexist throughout our history and that’s the reason why Iran is one the most diverse nation in the world. For god sake, we had Arabs who fought against Iraq ( Arab country ). I bet would barely find any Israeli Arabs fighting for the IDF, why is that? Because Israel hasn’t learned how to coexist yet , maybe they will in the future but as of right now they haven’t .

[hidayatnw]

I suppose this thread is about Jews in Yemen...not about Iran...stop trolling please....

[apadana]

I suppose this thread is about Jews in Yemen...not about Iran...stop trolling please....

Tell that to the 20 members before me who brought up Iran. Some of them being Israelis , now they are regretting brining up Iran .

[the_Wicked]

Jews have representation in the Iranian parliament but you consider them as not treated fairly. But I guess the Israeli kneset is so holy and pure that having Arabs in it should be considered an honor for Israeli Arabs. Like I said, it’s no secret that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens by Israeli Jews. Just one example, Arab football players are routinely harassed with racist remarks by the more Israeli citizens ( Jews) . In Iran, we had a few Jewish players in our national team , we have 2 Christians in our national team right now and they are considered the lions of Iran just as the Muslim players. Our fans don’t distinguish players based on their religion .

I want to have what you're smoking. The fact that there are any arabs on Israeli soccer teams (and plenty of them) is proof enough of their equality.

That reminds me that there was a case where an Israeli football player voiced an opinion that an Israeli football team should not have Arabs in it. He was removed from the team immediately.

Your notion of "second class citizens" is laughable. They're about as well off as Afro-Americans in the US (for better or worse).

[GilBates]

Sada most Arab Jews were forced out in response when Israel was re-established as a state in 1948, a tit for tat I guess.


That's plain and outright incorrect. Most Arab Jews were made to pay the price of their jewishness long before the establishment of Israel. but in 1948, there was a wide range of attitudes. from severe riots and wide anti-jewish campaigns to outright indifference. Nonetheless, most countries now forbade the (inevitable, I shall say) escape of jews from their confines to israel and only the loomings of humanitarian crises brought about a change of mind (such is the story in iraq). Tit for tat? hardly. Jews were always docile citizens of their countries, while palestinians were interlocked in a bloody war with Jews. and persecution of jews started earlier (e.g. the 1941 farhud).



apadana both are treated like second class citizens overall but Israeli Arabs have more religious freedom then Persian Jews. There are more Muslims in Israel's knesset then Jews in Iran's parliament.

Jews have severe limitations on them in Iran. officially, jews can come and visit Israel. effectively, anyone who does so must return or risk serious retribution against his family. some jews buy this set of lokshen, but many don't. I have some friends with family in Iran, and the real story leaks at times. as an example of a fwe anti-jewish edicts, Jewish schools must be administered by a muslim and if a Jew converts to islam, he will receive his parents' entire inheritence rights to property. Now, there has been a whole lot of illegal immigration (why illegal? because it involves the entire family, leaving no point of pressure to prevent it) via pakistan, until the iranian government patched the border.

that's just a quick dish, if you want more, do let me know. or have a helping yourself, at http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/search/label/Jews%20of%20Iran

[GilBates]

I suppose this thread is about Jews in Yemen...not about Iran...stop trolling please....

you are fully correct. those poor yemeni jews are just exemplifying what we all already know - zionism has nothing to do with it, it's crass anti-judaism at its best, for both national motives and (faux) islamic motives, and jews are the eternal scapegoats. but little does the world care. these jews did nothing to their host countries, weren't even zionists - and now they pay the price of their jewishness.

[RoyB]

Jews have representation in the Iranian parliament but you consider them as not treated fairly.
I never said that.

it’s no secret that Israeli Arabs are treated as second class citizens by Israeli Jews. Just one example, Arab football players are routinely harassed with racist remarks by the more Israeli citizens ( Jews) .
Football? FOOTBALL?
A game that attracts the Hooligans of any country (no offense football fans).
Everyone, but I mean EVERYONE are getting slandered and cursed in the football industry around here.. same as in anyplace else.
Also, there are quite a lot of Israeli-Arab players in the Israeli leagues.. just one example is Walid Badir, a well respected footballer who has a place on the Israeli national team.

[Hollis]

Tell that to the 20 members before me who brought up Iran. Some of them being Israelis , now they are regretting brining up Iran .


So don't add to it......................


To all:
Iran is non-issue for this thread. Other words, expect.. rewards for trolling after this point.

[GiladS]

Yemen's Jews. The End

History will record that 2,500 years of Jewish life in Yemen is now over. As The Wall Street Journal reported October 31, the US State Department has completed a clandestine operation which brought 60 of the country's remaining Jews to America (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1256799053139&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull). The newspaper quoted Yeshiva University's Hayim Tawil, a Yemeni Jewry expert, as issuing the certificate of death: "This is the end of the Jewish Diaspora of Yemen. That's it."


As Israelis and Jews we earnestly appreciate the efforts of the Obama administration on behalf of our Yemeni brethren.

THE RESCUE illuminates an often overlooked aspect of the 60-year-plus Arab-Israel conflict. Whereas the Arab world has purposefully maintained the 700,000 or so Palestinian Arabs made homeless in the course of the 1948 war and their descendants as permanent refugees and political pawns, the State of Israel and world Jewry have worked hard to resettle a roughly equal number of Jewish refugees forced to flee Arab lands.

The behavior of Arab leaders toward their Jewish subjects after the creation of Israel was (with notable exceptions) characterized by scapegoating and marginalization culminating in mass exodus. In 1947, Arab rioters in Aden killed dozens of Jews to protest a two-state solution in Palestine. In 1949 and 1950 the bulk of Yemen's Jews, some 49,000 souls, were airlifted here in "Operation Magic Carpet." The broad Arab refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel as a sovereign Jewish state is partly attributable to Arab attitudes toward their Jewish minorities.
Coexistence was possible - so long as Jews knew their place.
JEWISH life under Muslim rule was historically neither the utopia Arab propagandists claim nor the purgatory Jewish polemicists assert. As the doyen of Middle East studies Bernard Lewis wrote in The Jews of Islam, the actual state of affairs varied depending on the era, locale, political and economic conditions, the stability of the ruling Islamic regime, and on developments within the Jewish community.


Jews were granted Dhimmi or tolerated status. They paid a special jizya tax to underscore their subordinate position in society. If they missed the point, Islamic tradition allowed for the local Muslim authority to deliver a ceremonial slap on the neck to the Jew upon payment of the levy. Jews were required to wear distinguishing clothes; they were expected to deport themselves deferentially in the presence of Muslims. And unlike everyone else, Jews were not permitted to carry weapons.

On the other hand, Lewis wrote, Jews were not required to convert to Islam, and could enjoy a high degree of acculturation. (They were certainly better off than their coreligionists living under medieval Christendom.)

At any rate, this social contract crumbled in part because the Zionist movement was a direct assault on the Dhimmi principle.
The Yemen experience also reminds us that the Arab world's antagonism to modern values has led it to extended periods of internal instability as well a visceral rejection of Israel for embodying the Western liberal idea.

POLITICAL instability is always "bad for the Jews," and Yemen has long been a volatile mess. The ancestral homeland of Osama bin Laden is burdened by internal strife, poverty and a dysfunctional regime. The north and south (where the oil is) are at odds.

The secular-oriented government of Ali Abdullah Saleh, a Shi'ite, is corrupt and undemocratic. He is battling an insurrection by Shi'ite religious extremists who were once his allies against fanatical Sunnis. Extremist Sunnis, supportive of al-Qaida, are also battling the regime and attacking Western targets.

Yemen has a Sunni majority with a large Shi'ite minority. On top of all this, there are also tribal tensions; the president's tribe dominates the security services.

But the Yemeni masses were able to put some of these differences aside during Operation Cast Lead... and attack the Jews. With few friends, Yemen's president sought to stay in Washington's good graces by trying to protect the besieged remnants of Yemeni Jewry.

AS THE saga of Yemen's Jews now comes to a close, our thoughts are also drawn to Israel's treatment of its Arab minority. Any one of 10 Arab Knesset members could persuasively argue, Jewish Israelis have nothing to be smug about.
Yet if they were fair minded, they might grant that the Jewish state has done a comparatively decent job in bringing its minority citizens into the mainstream.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1256799063127&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Isaac Kasabian]

Why doesn't Israel go pick them up, or persuade them to come to Israel?

[GiladS]

Why doesn't Israel go pick them up, or persuade them to come to Israel?

It's their chose whether they want to move to Israel or not.

[Isaac Kasabian]

It's their chose whether they want to move to Israel or not.

By what was in the article doesn't seem they had that much option.
I think Israel should have stepped in and brought them back to Israel instead of the States.

[bbsh]

By what was in the article doesn't seem they had that much option.
I think Israel should have stepped in and brought them back to Israel instead of the States.

160 chose to go to Israel, and about 100 chose to go to the US...

This is from an article i read on arutz sheva a few days ago..

[JJC]

By what was in the article doesn't seem they had that much option.
I think Israel should have stepped in and brought them back to Israel instead of the States. Why does it matter much; their future won't be worse in the U.S. There are well established Yemenite communities in the U.S. Here in Brooklyn alone, I know 3 Yemenite synagogues with large congregations and many of these Yemenites are Israeli born, but chose to move to the U.S. with their families. These new immigrants will have their Yemenite communities and various Jewish organizations helping them out.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

For anyone out there wondering; it's these guys, the Satmar Hasidim, that pretty much got the ball rolling with the emigration of the last Yemeni Jews to the U.S. Here is the trailer for the documentary 'In Satmar Custody'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnCrWjlz2rE


This documentary is called In Satmar Custody. It's about a Yemeni Jewish family who emigrates to the America only to have their children seized by the authorities here and given to Satmar families! Very interesting documentary. Some of it is not translated, but the majority of the documentary is in English. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3334035483906522977&q=%22in+satmar+custody%22&ei=ZSJjSP2yGJmwrQKFj9WtCQ&hl=en#D] (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3334035483906522977&q=%22in+satmar+custody%22&ei=ZSJjSP2yGJmwrQKFj9WtCQ&hl=en#D%5D)

[hidayatnw]

you are fully correct. those poor yemeni jews are just exemplifying what we all already know - zionism has nothing to do with it, it's crass anti-judaism at its best, for both national motives and (faux) islamic motives, and jews are the eternal scapegoats. but little does the world care. these jews did nothing to their host countries, weren't even zionists - and now they pay the price of their jewishness.


yes, those Jews in Yemeni have nothing to do with Zionism and Israel.

[JJC]

For anyone out there wondering; it's these guys, the Satmar Hasidim, that pretty much got the ball rolling with the emigration of the last Yemeni Jews to the U.S. Here is the trailer for the documentary 'In Satmar Custody'. The film is not about the recent mission to rescue Yemenites. Like many organizations, Satmar like to claim too much credit for this. Most donation money around $750,000 raised for this mission were collected by UJC/Jewish Federations of North America and Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. The Satmar don't have the political power in Washington to make things like this happen. If you listen to Satmar about this story, they'll make it sound like their miracle rebbe saved the world and won't mention these secular organizations that did most of the work. :)

The link talks about the orgs that were behind this.
http://www.ujc.org/page.aspx?id=209534

[OrangeWolf]

Yes I mentioned this before in this thread, these Satmar idiots are taking away the culture of the Temani Jews, they will abuse the culture and tradition of any Jewish person just so long it works for their perverted anti-Zionism.

They are just religious fundamentalist freaks, but I am not sure if they care more about their obsession of destroying the Jewish state, or plain money they get for not working.

[Isaac Kasabian]

160 chose to go to Israel, and about 100 chose to go to the US...

This is from an article i read on arutz sheva a few days ago..

Ok thanks for the information.
Still it would be great if all were to resettle in Israel.


Why does it matter much; their future won't be worse in the U.S. There are well established Yemenite communities in the U.S. Here in Brooklyn alone, I know 3 Yemenite synagogues with large congregations and many of these Yemenites are Israeli born, but chose to move to the U.S. with their families. These new immigrants will have their Yemenite communities and various Jewish organizations helping them out.

Not saying US is bad, I just believe Jews should go to Israel especially those who came from Arab countries or those who aren't well established in their home countries.