Shopkeeper Denies Illegal Trade of James Bond Guns

[walford]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3165427

By Shenai Raif, PA News

Hundreds of James Bond guns were illegally sold from a respectable-looking militaria shop, the Old Bailey heard today.

Some 576 illegal guns passed through the hands of shopkeeper Guner Salih and two other men, it was alleged.

More than 400 of the weapons were Walther PPK as used by 007 after M took away his Beretta early in his career when he was wounded.

Mark Gadsden, prosecuting, demonstrated one of the guns and told jurors they might recall it from the James Bond Goldfinger adventure.

He said: “It is the gun which M insists he takes with him when he leaves his office because his Beretta jammed and he was shot during his last mission.”

Mr Gadsden said the guns had been supplied by Salih and converted from replicas by Stephen Herbert and Gary Beard.

They were then sold by Salih in his Moderne Buckles shop which sells militaria and replica guns in Bethnal Green Road, east London, he said.

Mr Gadsden added: “Some 576 guns passed through their hands. It is an awful lot of guns to be converted from harmless replicas to fully functioning killing machines.”

During 14 months up to April last year, more than one gun a day had been sold illegally for cash.

Salih had bought hundreds of guns but his records showed he sold only a couple of replicas a month, added Mr Gadsden.

Salih, 56, of Campbell Avenue, Barkingside, east London, denies nine firearms charges including conspiracies to manufacture, supply and possess with intent to cause fear.

The court was told that Beard and Herbert had pleaded guilty to conspiracy.

A couple of questions this story brings to mind:

Is the Beretta really less reliable than the Walther?
Which model Beretta was Bond supposedly using?

I see used PPKs for sale from time to time here in VA, going for about $3-400. The idea of a compact weapon that is comfortable to carry is appealing -- if it has sufficient stopping power. I know that there are some die-hards who insist that a revolver is best. They will recommend something like one of the 5-shot S&W 38's [LadySmith/BodyGuard] as a better alternative to a small semi-auto for concealed carry.

It seems to me that a reliable semi would be better -- it's slimmer, has more capacity and is more quickly loaded.

Any thoughts?

[Mark Sman]

Semi vs Revolver is an age old argument that you will not find the answer to on this forum. Many opinions, but no answers.

Personally I would use either. The revolver is an excellent choice for someone who has not had much training with firearms. Your above mentioned models are excellent choices.

The best answer is to go to the range and try some of them.

If you plan to buy one you need to do three things first.

Comply with all laws of your area, lest you end up in jail.

Buy a gun safe with a combination tumbler lock that mounts to the foundation of your home with concrete anchors.

Get the absolute best firearms training available to you.

You should expect to spend 3 to 4 times what you pay for the gun on the above. If you don't, you either have a crapy gun or are living unwisely.

As to te PPK. It was a good pistol in its day, but that day is done. You can get better weapons for less money now. Sig, Glock, Walther, Beretta, Smith, Kimber, Les Paul, Wilson, Colt all maufacture pistols that are superior to the venerable Walther PPK.

I believe Bond was issued the PPK by Q in replacement of a .25 Beretta Minx in the story Dr. No.

Dr. No was the first Bond film made, but was actually the sixth book. Fleming had Bond switch pistols in the sixth book, but the movies just went ahead and did it in the first one since they switched production order.

I'm kind of winging the Bond stuff, so you might want to check.

[Durandal]

Hmmm...

Technically, a revolver is the SAFEST conceal carry handgun type you can get. I say this purely in general context to the question. Neither automatic or revolver are "better", its a personal choice, but police and conceal carry class room instructors and usually gun store owners will always suggest a revolver over an automatic.

Rarely is a brandished weapon ever fired in a CCL vs. criminal scenario.

Nor would I be concerned about lethality of the round. Some dude that wants your wallet or purse isn't going to be thinking about theft even if he takes a .22 LR in the leg.

Anyone that claims otherwise is snowing ya.

As far as Berettas go...well, my 92F is a joy to shoot. I also have a 9000S, touted as a fantastic conceal carry weapon (even by myself in prior posts almost a year ago). The 9000S is accurate and comes in both 9mm and .40 S&W. I started having jamming problems, however, and have sent it back to Beretta TWICE. It is clearly an extraction issue. I have photos of the lower right side of the ejection port with a brass scuff. Considering the weapon is supposed to eject over the top of the shooter slightly to the right I found it quite disturbing (this was after the first time they returned it to me stamped "OK"). The second time I sent it (last month), I received a phone call from one of the Beretta reps (I had sent a rather nasty letter and the photos I took). Their claim is that nothing is wrong with the gun and that the 9000S is "finicky" and that if you try you can simply jam it up by holding it loosely (I saw where this was going). They then said I was responsible for the jamming. *snort* I have been shooting pistols for the last 12 years and guns in general since I was 5 I weigh in at 230 pounds and can lift well over 300 pounds. I have large hands to boot and know how to grip a pistol...

Yeah right...

So, who knows. I think the 9000S sucks ass. Period. My 92 is great and I have never had a single jam. Though admittedly I take REALLY good care of my weapons, so who knows. You get a little dirt in there or some reloads and it probably will. Overall, I am quite disappointed with Beretta and will be trading the 9000S in for their Storm carbine (If I want money back I get less cash...so I figure I will trade it in for full value :( ). After that, no Beretta products for me.

This is simply my experience and may not be the norm.

Hope that helps.

[ogukuo72]

Semi vs Revolver is an age old argument that you will not find the answer to on this forum. Many opinions, but no answers.

Personally I would use either. The revolver is an excellent choice for someone who has not had much training with firearms. Your above mentioned models are excellent choices...

As to te PPK. It was a good pistol in its day, but that day is done. You can get better weapons for less money now. Sig, Glock, Walther, Beretta, Smith, Kimber, Les Paul, Wilson, Colt all maufacture pistols that are superior to the venerable Walther PPK.

I believe Bond was issued the PPK by Q in replacement of a .25 Beretta Minx in the story Dr. No.

Dr. No was the first Bond film made, but was actually the sixth book. Fleming had Bond switch pistols in the sixth book, but the movies just went ahead and did it in the first one since they switched production order.

I'm kind of winging the Bond stuff, so you might want to check.

If memory serves, Bond liked to carry the Beretta with a silencer in a shoulder hostler. In "From Russia with Love", the silencer got snagged as Bond was trying to draw the Beretta, the result of which he was shot. Hence, it was not the unreliability of the Beretta that was the issue here, but the stupidity of carrying a pistol with a silence without a properly designed hostler.

I remembered that Q recommended the PPK instead because the 7.65mm is more powerful than the 0.25 ACP - an early version of the "stopping power" argument. Again, reliability was not an issue here.

Q also recommended the Smith and Wesson 0.38 Special Centennial revolver (can't remember if it was the airweight version) to Bond, and it was actually this pistol that he carried in the Dr No book (although not in the movie), together with 20 rounds of ammunition.

Another wheelgun Bond carried was mentioned in the first book, Casino Royale. Bond slept with a cut-down Colt Police Positive 0.38 Special under his pillow.

I last watched the movie Dr No many years back, but I remembered that the pistol actually totted by Sean Connery was not a PPK - although it was referred to as such. It was actually an FN M1910.

In later years, the book Bond switched to other pistols such as the VP90, P7, Ruger Blackhawk (a car gun), but finally settled on the ASP 9mm - a cut-down and customised Smith and Wesson M39. In the movies, Bond switched from his trusty PPK to the Walther P99. Both represented significant jumps in firepower.

Of all the pistols mentioned above, I think the ASP 9mm is the most suitable for our interpid agent. It has the right combination of size, calibre and capacity. I would choose it over even the Walther P99, which is just a tad too big for a suave agent in tuxedo.

[Mark Sman]

I've always thought Smith should release an updated version of the ASP. Weird sights and all. Maybe in .40. Gunmakers are always looking to sell a gimic. At least with an ASP rework it wouldn't be utter crap.

[ogukuo72]

The ASP is certainly one of the more interesting firearm in recent history - not too stylished and customized to the point of impracticality, and yet with a certain character of its own.

Does anyone know of any good website on this pistol?

[Durandal]

Just Google it man...

http://www.hmss.com/qbranch/ASPPICTURE.jpg

[Tributal]

Just Google it man...

http://www.hmss.com/qbranch/ASPPICTURE.jpg

Damn that is ugly! What will we see next - a Hi-Point? rofl

http://www.mkssupply.com/images/9comp-1.jpg
Suggested Retail Price: $ 159.00

[ogukuo72]

www.hmss.com/qbranch/qb0101.htm

OK, I yahooed it. :D

Interesting site above.

Personally, I don't think the ASP is an ugly gun. It has its own appeal. It certainly isn't any uglier than newer guns such as the Glocks (another design I thought quite appealing because of its elegant simplicity).

[kommando]

hmm im not really a favourer of the ol pp7
id take a glock or usp any day

i asked my dad (hes a copper here in QLD)
and he said revolvers are favoured by alot of the older schooled coppers
and the newer ones prefer the glocks
but the police are now phasing out the ol revolver,
but dad said its not true that revolvers are easier to shoot then pistols like the glock or not in his opinion

just thought id post that from a coppers viewpoint
also my father who i am proud of :)

haha and its funny becuase he wnats me to be a cop and im going army
in 3 weeks now

[ogukuo72]

Nothing wrong with revolvers. Don't have to worry about magazines springs and lips, dodgy ammo, etc. Just put the rounds in and put it aside.

[Mark Sman]

Could always be a cop after the army. Good luck with the military in three weeks.

I'm indifferent to the revolver, semi debate. Have both, have used both, will use both. Not at the same time mind you.

Need to get a 2 inch barreled S&W 500 to use as a backup piece, 'cause I'm so BA.

[ogukuo72]

Wow! Do those come in two-inch barrels? :)

Smith and Wesson have really come up with some strange looking revolvers lately, haven't they?

My question is: does anyone make a five-round speedloader for the 500? For that matter, does anyone make a seven-round speedloader for the 686P?

[Durandal]

Need to get a 2 inch barreled S&W 500 to use as a backup piece, 'cause I'm so BA.

rofl

While you are at it, why don't you get a M86 with a 12" barrel.

rofl

[Mark Sman]

It would just get in the way of my cut-down suppresed Hawken.

It ain't easy being BA I tell ya.

I was serious bout Smith re-releasing a version of the ASP though.

Talk about crap that they are peddling on the market nowadays. The ASP was a good idea. I've never fired using guttersnipe type sites, but that don't matter.

In actual use the sites are irrelevant most of the time. If you have time to aim they are nice. Would like to give an ASP re-tread a try. Just need to make that Cor-Bon .50 fit the magazine. p-)

I fired my buddies 500, with the 8 and someodd inch barrel.
Recoil was less than a .44 magnum. I guess the heavy frame and built in compensator helped. He got quite the look at the range though.

We ran it as a suprise. He kept the 500 cased in a bag until everyone was at the line and hot. Fired a few from his 1911. And then . . .

I'd have to say that while felt recoil is not that bad, perceived explosion is quite amazing when standing to the side.

He fired first. After a cylinder, he let me fire it. And I was suprised! Being behind it is much calmer than being to the side of it.

They are making a 4 inch barrel now. Haven't tried it , yet. All I can say is something about a savior, a popsicle stick and the letter H.

That and God Bless America. Something so wrong has got to be right.

That and, all argument about nockdown power take a hike around this beastie. It is putting out nockdown in front of it, to the side of it, and a little behind it.

[D.E. Watters]

For that matter, does anyone make a seven-round speedloader for the 686P?

Yes, HKS does. (HKS 587-A)

[Midtown]

JAMES BOND ISNT REAL GUYS.

[ogukuo72]

Thanks. The thought of a seven-shot revolver is still rather weird, though. Something to get used to.

I visited the S&W website recently. I'm rather sad to see that Smith and Wesson no longer manufactures classics like the Model 13 and Model 19 in blue steel.

I guess they were dropped because there's no longer a Law Enforcement market for them, and civilians tend to go for stainless steel. I'm also rather sad that the new wooden grips offered lack some of the aesthetic qualities of the old wooden grips.

I also saw the new CS9 pistol - it looks like the same size as the ASP. So, in a sense, I guess S&W had brought back the ASP.

Given how light the 340PD is, maybe James Bond would take a second look at the Centennial? :)

[walford]

http://www.gunweek.com/0710issue/feature0710.html

I had no idea that any weapon firing a .45 ACP could be considered a candidate for concealed carry, but Gun Week is singing praises of a new Ruger semi-auto:


...Equipped with two seven-round magazines, the P345 has a far slimmer profile than any of its older siblings in the Ruger lineup. The slide is narrower, and the grip frame, which accommodates a seven-round single-stack magazine, is slimmer and easier for smaller hands to grasp, than any of Ruger's earlier models with double-stack magazines. It compares favorably with the grip on my Commander-sized Auto-Ordnance pistol, and I'll have to admit that the slide-to-frame fit on the Ruger is considerably tighter than on the Auto Ordnance, which rattles a bit if you shake it hard.

In fact, the Ruger overall is very close in size to that Commander clone. Length on the bushingless barrel is an even 4 inches, and there's a full-length guide rod for the recoil spring.

Translation: This pistol would be a good choice for anyone looking for a new sidearm for concealed carry or home defense. The accessory rail would allow the homeowner to mount a laser sight or tactical flashlight up front as well...

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/News-04-16-2004B.html
http://www.gunweek.com/0710issue/pix0710/5.jpg

[Mark Sman]

That CS9 is small. Not quite ASP though. Need to round everything off, and go back to clear handles and see through mags so that you can see how much ammo is left. Also need to go with guttersnipe sites, although they might be trash. Never used them.

If they were to re-release an ASP mod, I would prefer starting with the 3913LS. Yeah a Lady Smith. Mock away.

And yeah, there are alot of carry/concealed .45s. The Glock 36 is tiny.
http://www.glock.com/g36.htm

I like the small Kimbers.
Tactical Pro II and smaller.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/tactical.php

Even a full size 1911A1 is concealeable with an Inside the Waist Band holster and the right training/clothing.

Also James Bond was a very real person! He loved the birds.
http://www.ebird.org/content/news/JamesBond.html

[ogukuo72]

I can't imagine why no one makes grips with transparent side panels. It does make a lot of sense, doesn't it?

We're already doing it with rifle and SMG mags, why not pistol mags as well. One glance would take all the guess work out of trying to remember how many rounds you have left.

Yeah, James Bond is not a real guy, but the PPK was popular amongst spies, secret agents and police detectives in Europe for much of the 20th century. As we all know, the ASP was designed for specially for specialists of the trade. And the Walther P99 is quite a slim and compact pistol. So the gun choices were all quite realistic.

I can't imagine James Bond using a 0.45 though... it's so un-British!