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[2RHPZ]

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[fantassin]

Hey, why don't you just go straight to the point and opened yet another French bashing thread?

Quote:

Maybe the USA should reconsider what we share with these two (France and Greece) , and whether they are allies, or not.

And you know, deep down in your heart, remember what Krauthammer said in 2003 in Time Magazine, "France is now our enemy"....

After all, France was only the second contributor of bombers against Serbia in 1999, only fired about 650 155mm and several 100s 120 mm mortar shells at Serbian position around Sarajevo in August 1995, only lost about 80 of its soldiers killed and about 650 wounded in the Balkans.

Classic definition of the friend of the Serbs if you ask me.

[mack pl]

Well, this guy who writed this article wasn't "diplomatic" ;) He think that USA, could say to Frnace or Grecce "go and fukyourself", but its not possible. Why USA should do that? Because France didn't support USA in war against Iraq? Ohh, well, thay didn't support us(coalition), and what? Huh, we winn this war. Yeah, we have problems now, but If France wee here, we could have the same problems. Iraqis insurgents arent France lovers or something, so nothing will chaneged if French troops was here.

Greece? Huh, well, 100 soldiers in Srebrenica? So, what? They were fukin Merc's. Not only they, all Europeans fighted in Balkans, not only Europeans, but Arabs, Americans etc. Well, maybe Grecce gov. looks at Serbs as a friends, but its nothing new. Huh, eastern governmants looks in the same way on Croats(Catholics). Ive read somewhere thta USA offices helped to Croats in planning opeation "Storm". So, what? Nothing.

This whole war was fukin ****. but in my opinion all Balkans, its a "pouder ceg"(sp.). Its always was.

well, this journalist intention was simple-kick french ass etc.-well, we dont must like them or something, but politic and history isn't simple subject.


Fantassin-RIP for all French soldiers who were killed in balkans .

Regards

[2RHPZ]

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[mack pl]

Greece? Huh, well, 100 soldiers in Srebrenica? So, what? They were fukin Merc's.

Fantassin-RIP for all French soldiers who were killed in balkans .

Yes, RIP to all allies who lost their lives. BTW, do you know that first "French" soldier who died in former Yugoslavia was Slovak, FF (2REP) legionaire, killed by sniper in Sarajevo in 1992?

The problem of Greeks in Srebrenica is that they were regular soldiers and officers "on leave" - not mercenaries. That is a serious problem. If they were anynone as mers, who cares ... I agree ... many Czechs fought alongside Croats, some together with Serbs.

1) RIP for our Slovak brother.

2) Well, maybe I miss the point. But, all governments are doing stuff like that. Im sure Turkey were helping Bosnian muslims, USA Croats(like I write before), etc. All Europeans(not only) governments have dirty hands, more or less. For this poor citizens of Srebrenica, its not important who killed them. Well, crappy situation. What can I say.....fukin politic.....

Zdarec

[gbos]

So, now CAG147 besides been the killers of spectacular football are we also guilty of these crimes? :D

Where can I start:

A reporter who knows in advance (in an almost two years old article) what Milosevic WILL testify in the future? :roll:

Greek military knowing in advance what tanks will be bombarded by US pilots? What do you think? Are US pilots before taking off phones to their Greek relatives and says ‘Hey Kosta I am going to bomb west of Mostar or something. I am telling you this in case you are planning your vacation in this area.’ :roll:

Greek priests with guns or with their holy cups fighting on the mountains? They can easily been mistaken for Ninjas you know. (Please have mercy on me) rofl

The Greeks sending 100 military personnel to do what? Change the course of war? They also fly the double-headed eagle of Byzantium so everybody knows that they are there.

Giving weapons to Serbs? What kind of weapons because you know we don’t manufacture Kalashnikovs.

I am also impressed by the evidence presented in this article. Reporter refers to best kept secrets (ones that she knows about of course), anonymous EU diplomats etc etc.

[2RHPZ]

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[gbos]

CAG sorry but Greek soldiers didn’t operate in Bosnian war.

Were missionaries with Greek origin participated in Bosnian War? It’s likely but I guess no more likely than missionaries from any other country.

Do we like Serbs? Yes we like them but also we have nothing against Croats and Muslims. Do you know how many Muslim Immigrants lives here?

This article contains a load of BS. For example even the most ignorant knows that Serbs military industry is more than capable in producing small arms and ammunition and there is no need buying them from Greece. Unless you think it’s easier to manufacture a tank than to manufacture a 7.62 mm rifle.

[mack pl]

This article contains a load of BS. For example even the most ignorant knows that Serbs military industry is more than capable in producing small arms and ammunition and there is no need buying them from Greece. Unless you think it’s easier to manufacture a tank than to manufacture a 7.62 mm rifle.

well, but we dont talking here about Serbia(Fmr.Rep.of Yugoslavia), but Bosnia. So, Bosnian Serbs(its not the same what Serbs from Fmr. republic of Yugoslavia) cannot manufactured kalshnikovs etc., so, they need to buy this kind of stuff abroad. BTW every sides in this conflict were using many types of guns, not only kalshnikov, Croats using even M16. So, you cannot be so sure that Greece dont give(sold) them any weapon, coz you dont manufactured kalshikovs.

just my 2 eurocents

well, Im neutral here, i dont wanna flames...

Regards

[2RHPZ]

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[Commander Cool]

So what if there were a few Greek volunteers fighting for the Serbs, there were thousands of volunteers from other countries fighting for the Croats and Muslims. I don't see why Greece is getting singled out.

Also it's very unlikely Greece provided any equipment to the Serbs, I've studied the Bosnian war and I've learned that although the Serbs were low on manpower they had no shortage of weapons, neither small nor heavy. And even if the Bosnian Serbs did want more weapons, it's would've been both easier and cheeper to obtain them from Serbia than from Greece.

Also, people are overlooking the fact that Muslims and Croats got far more weapons donations than Serbs did. Croatia's primary supplier was Germany which sold Croatia everything from assault rifles to T-72 tanks. The Muslims received weapons from all over the world. Here (http://www.satribune.com/archives/dec23_29_02/P1_bosniastory.htm) is an article about some Paki chief bragging about how they sent missiles to Bosnia.

Anyways this article seems to be blaming Greeks for something which other countries did too.

[Pille1234]

Also, people are overlooking the fact that Muslims and Croats got far more weapons donations than Serbs did. Croatia's primary supplier was Germany which sold Croatia everything from assault rifles to T-72 tanks. The Muslims received weapons from all over the world. Here (http://www.satribune.com/archives/dec23_29_02/P1_bosniastory.htm) is an article about some Paki chief bragging about how they sent missiles to Bosnia.

Do you have link or some other information to back that up?

[Royal]

Also, people are overlooking the fact that Muslims and Croats got far more weapons donations than Serbs did. Croatia's primary supplier was Germany which sold Croatia everything from assault rifles to T-72 tanks. The Muslims received weapons from all over the world.

Not forgetting that well known purveyor of arms (to the ABiH in Tuzla) and NATO intelligence (to the HV for Op Oluja/Storm) the good ol' US of A.

Everyone's guilty when it comes to the Balkans quagmire.

[flanker7]

I'll try to provide some information I know,I don't know however if it's true. In the greek newspaper "Proina Nea", on July 1 2003 there was an article about Greek volunteers in the Bosnian war. According to the paper Greeks fought in Bosnia in the period 1992-1993 and in 1995. In 1995 25 Greeks joined the serb army and it's 1st Brigade in Vlasenitsa(spelling?) under the command of Brigadier General Svoko Bajits. In the years 1992 and 93 unknown number of Greeks faught in Bosnia(7 of them are still considered POWs-by their relatives and according to them are kept in Zenitsa). Those Greek, known as Gritska Ntobrovoliats Ntiverzante(spelling?) took part mostly in commando raids ans "special ops", most famous of wich was the raising of the Greek flag one meter from the muslim trenches on the Moimtsilo hill outside Sarajevo. I don't know, as I said, if any of these is true. I know, however, that Greeks volounteers faught in Bosnia and I am sure that none of them partisipaded in any massacures.
Regards

[2RHPZ]

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[sierraone]

Greece has been getting a lot of stick as as well have the Serbs. Probably you have heard this many times but the 'West' demonised the Serbs from the beginning of the conflict as supposedly they had started the war. Basically as we now know this conflict didn't have people that were exclusively right or wrong. Extreme nationalists took power or held public sway in the countries of former Yugoslavia and decided unilaterally they wanted independence, they wanted it now and they wanted to ethnically cleanse their areas. If nothing else the Belgrade gvt tried to keep it together and when thuggish militias - mainly in Croatia - started torching Serb houses and kicking out families and sometimes shooting them as well, naturally intervened with the force of arms.

The Germans mainly wanting their puppet Tudjman to take power swiftly swayed the idiots Clinton and Blair to wage a PR war against the war by branding them as war criminals and baby-killers. Of course atrocities were commited by Serbs. But so were done by Croats and even worse by Muslims. This descended quickly into gang-warfare. It wasn't army vs. army. There were armed gangs, militias, criminals out of prison everywhere and all of a sudden they were fighting for their cause and calling themselves soldiers.

The Serbs had the bad fortune to gain the upper hand militarily and drew the attention of the West. If it were the Croats that were winning in BiH, they would be the ones to be bombed and branded war criminals. But Clinton and Blair wanted to be shown to be the ones swatting down the bad bad people of the planet. They couldn't have bombed the Muslims could they? They have done that too many times. Lets bomb some christians to show we bomb anyone we don't like.

Same with Kosovo. I will continue later as I have to get back to my post!

[SerbPVO]

You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words:)

http://www.serbia-hellas.f2g.net/images/serbia-hellas.gif

[sierraone]

I love that graphic Serb. Also I wish the Greek state would use the double-headed eagle crest and I don't know why they don't. Only the army in Greece uses it.

Army HQ badge

http://www.army.gr/n/g/images/ges_logo_large.gif

Greek volunteers in Bosnia

http://www.serbia-hellas.f2g.net/images/greek_volunteers2.jpg

http://www.serbia-hellas.f2g.net/images/greek_volunteers.jpg

[Tom The Hunter]

So in the masscres of Bosnia have taken part greeks too! :roll:

[sierraone]

So in the masscres of Bosnia have taken part greeks too! :roll:

Well as the topic title says: unsolved. i.e. we don't know. There may have been individuals who did or didn't but never in a government-condoned level. For sure there were volunteers fighting alongside the Serb army but massacres? The muslims and Croats did no less. It is just that the Serbs were winning the war so it showed more on the western media. So Clinton and Blair decided to bomb them to get some votes back home.

[Upfrontreporting]

CAG 147 wrote:


Well, it was not aplicable to every part of BiH. For instance, Moslims in the NW - Bihac, Bosanka Krupa - were short of any kind of small weapons. Serbs shelled village Otoka for months from one T-85 that was located at the top of the hill and they were not able to eliminated it - until they got missile from Iran. BTW, this missile was air droped from AN26 with Ukrainan marks. Anyway, there was very strange situation in the Bihac pocket. Moslims fought Serbs at the West, alongside Croatian border and traded weapons and cigarettes with Serbs at the East, towards Banja Luka. Because they fought Croats at the south and had no power to fight everyone. Nice war ...


To some extend the Bosniaks in the Bihac pocket were also supplied by the Croats, several flights of Croat Hind helicopters were sighted flying into the pocket, believed to be bringing in much needed supplies.
I doubt these were merely MEDEVAC flights, even though several of the Hinds in Pleso carried red-cross markings ;) (saw this myself)

Incidently over a period of time transportplanes marked "Iran Cargo" could be spotted in the Pleso airport outside Zagreb.


regards

[achilles]

Let me take things from the beginning. First of all the article that CAG posted, was written by Helena Smith. I know it is not correct to "attack-the-person" instead of the article's content but she is a case-study. She is covering Greece and the Balkan region in general and she has a long record of Anti-hellenic writings and claims (although sometimes depending on what is convenient for the UK government she tends to be friendly). A small example of her exceptional journalism is the following: In December 15th 2002 she wrote in The Sun about a personal attack on Athens' mayor, Dora Bakoyianni. The attacker was a severely psychotic person who was hallucinating about world conspiracies against him etc. This isolated incident for Helena Smith 'raises Olympic Games security fears'. Perhaps she forgot to include evidence that the attacker was trained in Al-qaeda camps in Afghanistan or post the photos of him next to bin Laden. She is hillarious. If you want something more objective....try Al Jazeera! So CAG, watch your sources my man... ;)

As for Greeks participating in the Serbian massacres. The fact that a small group of Greeks PARTICIPATED in the Serbo-Croatian conflict does not mean that this small group of Greek volunteers PARTICIPATED in the massacres. I dont know where this logical deductions are comming from.
CAG said something about the Srebrenica slaughter being the most humiliating thing for Europe. Is it more humiliating than NATO bombing European soil for the first time after WWII? Using depleted Uranium-based bombs? Killing civilians and sending Serbia's infrastructure 50 years back? I would suggest you should be more careful on what is the MOST humiliating thing and what is not.

To the point, we all know both Serbs and Croatians-Bosnians committed massacres and any sort of war-crime we can think of. As it has been already told, the Croatian/Bosnian side received aid from other European countries, i.e. Germany who is close ties with Croatia (a story that goes back the Croatian-Nazi alliance in WWII). Therefore, why should a fistful of Greek volunteers joining the Serbian army is such a hot issue? I would object if the Greek government had officially sent troops to help any of the two sides.

My final comment is on the article itself. Just take a look at it, for those who havent, and tell me that it doesnt smell propaganda and bias anyway you look at it.

Thats all folks.

[2RHPZ]

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[achilles]

As for Greeks participating in the Serbian massacres. The fact that a small group of Greeks PARTICIPATED in the Serbo-Croatian conflict does not mean that this small group of Greek volunteers PARTICIPATED in the massacres. I dont know where this logical deductions are comming from.
CAG said something about the Srebrenica slaughter being the most humiliating thing for Europe. Is it more humiliating than NATO bombing European soil for the first time after WWII? Using depleted Uranium-based bombs? Killing civilians and sending Serbia's infrastructure 50 years back? I would suggest you should be more careful on what is the MOST humiliating thing and what is not.

I stand by all my post and opinions. Milosevic and his servants are behind all atrocities. Serbian nation supported him (or didn´t do anything against) and therefore had to stand all starvations. BTW, DU stuff is very effective against targets ... we cannot bring the weapons systems 50 years back.

Regards,
CAG 147

I will only comment on the DU stuff...you know what...a 500MegaTon nuke is even more effective than depleted uranium missiles. Why dont we use that instead and bring the weapons systems 50 years ahead ;)
I am anything BUT a weapons specialist but i am not sure i understand your logic here...

[APOCALYPSE]

No fantastic atrocities like nato wants western people to beleive, Http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=2865, http://balkanpeace.org/cib/bos/boss/boss13.shtml