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View Full Version : 50,000 A-Level Students to Miss Out on Place at University



Holmes85
08-19-2009, 07:42 PM
This story comes from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/aug/20/a-levels-students-university-admissions


Polly Curtis (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/pollycurtis), education editor, The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian), Thursday 20 August 2009

The government stands accused today of abandoning its commitment to get more school-leavers into university, triggering an unprecedented scramble for degree places when students (http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/students) discover their A-level results this morning. University applicants face the most intense competition ever after ministers capped student numbers in England to cut costs despite a 10% increase in applications, fuelled in part by the recession. It leaves a potential shortfall of 60,000 places.

Universities are warning that more courses than ever will be full by the end of today and the head of the university admissions system said the clearing system for allocating leftover places will be over within the week. Usually it takes up to a month. The number of A-levels (http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/alevels) awarded at grade A is also expected to go up for the 27th year running to about 26%, intensifying the competition in the system.

Sally Hunt, the head of the lecturers' union UCU, accused Labour of abandoning its policy to expand universities. "The government's widening participation agenda was one that should have been celebrated and allowed to flourish. Sadly, the government's failure to stand up for education and to properly fund the policy has led to its apparent demise," she said. "The decision to cap the numbers of student places at university this year, and most likely permanently cap the ambition of thousands of potential students, marks the nadir of a policy which has become, in essence, the rationing of hope."

The places were restricted last year after a £200m hole was discovered in the Whitehall funding for universities. Last month the government announced an emergency 10,000 extra places, principally in science and maths courses, but the majority of the elite Russell Group of universities refused the offer after it emerged that ministers could only partially fund the courses. A big majority will be offered by the ex-polytechnics including Manchester Metropolitan, Kingston and Sheffield Hallam university.

Some institutions have designed schemes to get round the cap to admit extra students. Coventry has introduced a new "flex degree" that is officially counted a part-time course. Only full-time courses have been capped. But students can opt to take the courses practically full-time. Les Ebdon, vice-chancellor of Bedfordshire University and chair of the Million+ group of ex-polytechnics, said: "It's a disappointment that having worked hard to raise aspirations and improve A-level results further, the places are not there. There's a real need for long-term strategic planning. The cap was a panic response. Introducing a threat to fine universities is not very good management style." He said more students would be encouraged to go part-time and that there would be pressure on ministers to lift the cap on numbers allocated for January to allow students who miss out for September a second chance. Universities would recruit international students to increase income if they weren't allowed to take domestic students, he said. "I expect there will be 'house full' signs on quite a lot of our courses even on Thursday and Friday." Anthony McClaran, chief executive of the university admissions system Ucas, said: "We'll see intense activity in the week after A-level results. When I was an admissions officer years ago it would continue up until the start of term but it will happen in the week following results this year. It's definitely more concentrated."

There are also warnings that the students who are excluded are likely to be from the poorest homes as universities are forced to abandon schemes to identify bright candidates from state schools. David Barrett, assistant director of the Office for Fair Access, said: "We have told institutions that we are concerned that the demand doesn't lead to a disproportionate affect for widening participation students. The risk is that institutions may look at grades in a more simplistic way because of the demand for places."

Elite universities warned that the "clearing crunch" would become an annual event unless the government reformed the student funding system. Writing in the Guardian, Wendy Piatt, director general of the Russell Group institutions, said: "Unless we grasp the nettle and answer tough questions about who is going to make a bigger contribution to the costs of maintaining world-class universities, then this week's scenes will be repeated in future. Many students capable of benefiting from higher education (http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/higher-education) will miss out on the chance of a degree." David Willetts, shadow universities secretary, said: "Tens of thousands who expected to go to university this year will be disappointed, and ministers are to blame. This is a recipe for disaster."

David Lammy, the higher education minister, said last night: "Under Labour more people than ever before are going to university and a record number are expected to go this summer. We expect 50,000 more accepted applicants this year than just three years ago. Much of this growth is thanks to the increased investment we have made in our universities. Investment in our universities has risen by 25% in real terms since 1997 and stands at a record £15bn this year including student support."

DPM_Sheep
08-19-2009, 08:14 PM
This story comes from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/aug/20/a-levels-students-university-admissions


Oh well, guess the non-Freshers will just have to do without the student bar and do their degree via the OU instead. :)

Ordie
08-19-2009, 08:21 PM
Why don't they just apply to several universities in hopes of being accepted to at least one or two. And then go the Community College as a back up.

Mu-Meson
08-19-2009, 10:40 PM
Holmes, I thought you promised to start bolding text, instead of this red stuff.

Holmes85
08-19-2009, 11:04 PM
Holmes, I thought you promised to start bolding text, instead of this red stuff.

Oops, I forgot about that. I'll fix it right away. There we go, sorry about, I've had a lot of stuff on my mind lately.

Panchito12
08-19-2009, 11:26 PM
Why don't they just apply to several universities in hopes of being accepted to at least one or two. And then go the Community College as a back up.

Better yet: COME TO AMERICA!!

[WDW]Megaraptor
08-20-2009, 04:02 AM
Come to America, our universities are numerous, well-run, and have plenty of space for more students.

Mr Gently Benevolent
08-20-2009, 05:12 AM
England and Wales really need to get the funding situation sorted out the Scottish model although not perfect is workable.

rgjbloke
08-20-2009, 05:21 AM
I would imagine, kids who can't get places and their parents will be furious. One of this Governments major slogans and a landmark policy before they came to power was "Education! Education! Education!" One of my son's it just starting his second year at University and the second one is going down to Bournemouth to begin his first year. I would have been really furious if they had not got what they wanted simply on the basis, not enough places have been funded.

Corrupt
08-20-2009, 06:55 AM
Well I did this last year and am now a second year in manchester studying Mechanical engineering
There are a few issues to address. The government has made education education education their slogan and tried to get more and more people into higher education. This has had several negative effects, including...

Increased tuition fees due to more students wanting places, but nowhere near enough government funding to cover the increased costs. Increased "micky mouse" courses such as holiday and leisure studies that are to be brutally honest a pile of **** and have no real worth compound the funding problem by taking it from real "academic" courses like history or maths etc.

It has also devalued the degree system. 20-30 years ago, only 10% of the population had a degree it marked you out as someone with staying power and intelligence. Now its closer to 50% meaning that finishing with a Bsc in Physics is no longer good enough, youre forced to spend more money, time and effort getting a masters or even a phd just to be competetive in getting a job that really only requires a Bsc to actually do the job. Its stupid. My dad works for the NHS as a Human Resources manager. When he started the job 10 years ago he had a 2.2 in English and that was more than enough. Now an equivelent post requires a MASTERS in HR Management.

Another issue is the recession. I know several friends of mine who would have left after their 3-4 year courses are now sticking around to do a masters or Phd just to avoid being forced into the job market at this rather negative stage (especially as despite a huge increase in graduates there has been no increase in graduate jobs)

Plus I'm, bitter because being middle class the government hate me and anyone succesful. The rich are fine, they can afford everything, the poor are fine coz they get everything subsidised, who gets shafted is the middle classes who have to fork out everything and end up worse off than those on minimum wage...Theres nothing wrong with increwasing access to university so everyone gets a chance, thats fine, but what they're doing now is just stupid...

rgjbloke
08-20-2009, 07:33 AM
Plus I'm, bitter because being middle class the government hate me and anyone succesful. The rich are fine, they can afford everything, the poor are fine coz they get everything subsidised, who gets shafted is the middle classes who have to fork out everything and end up worse off than those on minimum wage...Theres nothing wrong with increwasing access to university so everyone gets a chance, thats fine, but what they're doing now is just stupid...

I understand all the points you make in your post but I have 2 points to comment on Firstly, in Britain, it's mainly the middle class who elect governments. Labour massively courted the middle class's prior to 1997 and obviously, very successfully. Secondly, I think the answer to the whole mess is to provide free university tuition for everybody and get rid of the existing system of loans etc. You say that you are are worse off because you have to fork out everything. Sounds expensive and unfair, but, if your family can afford to pay the fee's, you leave university ready to start without any debt. I can't afford to pay which means both of my son's will, when they have completed their courses, be saddled with relatively massive debts, which, they will have to pay off when they find jobs. I would love to pay towards their university courses so they don't have that debt, but I can't because I don't have the money. The point is, nobody gets a free ride, whether they have loads of money or very little money, and I would much sooner my boys didn't have that debt around their necks when they begin their careers.

Corrupt
08-20-2009, 07:38 AM
You say that you are are worse off because you have to fork out everything. Sounds expensive and unfair, but, if your family can afford to pay the fee's, you leave university ready to start without any debt.

Nope. I have to get a loan to pay the tuition fees etc and pay it all back, costing me about 7k a year this uni malarky....because if i want my parents to pay me through uni its for some reason 12k tuition fees rather than 3k if ye gt a student loan to pay it. How that makes sense I dont know. Apparantly if you get a student loan you only pay 1/3 the tuition fees instead of the full cost for international students...

I still cant get over the argument that people from poorer backgrounds should be given more lenient offers from top unis...Why? Everyone takes A levels, the unis base their choice on your performance there, GCSE's and personal statements. Thats as fair as it can be

Kit
08-20-2009, 09:35 AM
Megaraptor;4352212']Come to America, our universities are numerous, well-run, and have plenty of space for more students.

Yes but beware. They're quite crafty at taking your money. Tuition is only a fraction on how they do it.

rgjbloke
08-20-2009, 09:36 AM
Nope. I have to get a loan to pay the tuition fees etc and pay it all back, costing me about 7k a year this uni malarky....because if i want my parents to pay me through uni its for some reason 12k tuition fees rather than 3k if ye gt a student loan to pay it. How that makes sense I dont know. Apparantly if you get a student loan you only pay 1/3 the tuition fees instead of the full cost for international students...

I still cant get over the argument that people from poorer backgrounds should be given more lenient offers from top unis...Why? Everyone takes A levels, the unis base their choice on your performance there, GCSE's and personal statements. Thats as fair as it can be

Well, the student fee is just over £3000 regardless of whether you get a loan or not. You appeared to be intimating in your first post that your parents were paying because they were middle class and had money. Now you are saying you are getting a loan. If thats the case, you are in the same boat as my son. You mention the issue of international students. If you are an international student, in my view, you should rightly so be paying more. Why should my lifetime of paying taxes in the UK subsidise students coming from abroad who are using the UK education system to get better qualifications, therefore better jobs, and therefore better money. Nobody who is a United Kingdon National whether they qualify for a loan or not, is getting a more lenient financial offer. It's equal and that's how it should be.

Corrupt
08-20-2009, 09:43 AM
Well, the student fee is just over £3000 regardless of whether you get a loan or not. You appeared to be intimating in your first post that your parents were paying because they were middle class and had money. Now you are saying you are getting a loan. If thats the case, you are in the same boat as my son. You mention the issue of international students. If you are an international student, in my view, you should rightly so be paying more. Why should my lifetime of paying taxes in the UK subsidise students coming from abroad who are using the UK education system to get better qualifications, therefore better jobs, and therefore better money. Nobody who is a United Kingdon National whether they qualify for a loan or not, is getting a more lenient financial offer. It's equal and that's how it should be.

Bit of confusion here
The comment about paying everything was regards to any benefits at all, generally people of about my parents income are worse off than many lower income people as they're juuust above the income threshold for no help.
Secondly the loan situation. Everyone gets a student loan to pay for their tuition fees and a second one to live on to an extent) this one is based on paretns income again and assumes the parents will pay a minimum amount. Again poorer kids get more money from the loan and do not have to pay 100% back, some is just a grant.
However if you do not get a tuition fee loan and pay them yourself, you have to pay the full tuition fees an international student pays for some odd reason. I know because my (Uk national since birth) friend wanted to do it yto save the palaver of loans and debt etc. Im totally agreed that foreigners who have never paid taxes here should pay more!