Marine at Townhall event

[Eknytz]

Very interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6NQU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbighollywood.breitbart.com%2Fbighollywood%2F2009%2F08%2F22%2Fa-united-states-marine-goes-to-a-town-hall-meeting%2F&feature=player_embedded#t=139

[Soldat_Américain]

Wow...the NAZIs were not lefists. He had some anger.

[Noons86]

Actually, Nazis are essentially anyone you mildly disagree with. The nazis are seen as evil incarnate, therefore labeling someone who's views you don't like a nazi is par for the course.

[MichaelF]

Incidentally, the NSDAP was a Left party. An overtly totalitarian Left party, with a bit of Corporatism on the side, but still Left.

It was a branch of Socialism that developed more-or-less independantly of the Marxist dialogue.

[Noons86]

I actually think it is pointless to try to place the NSDAP on either end of the US political spectrum, even at the far end of either fringe. They would appeal to both the right and left of European politics. For the right, they would emphasize nationalism, tradition, and the threat of Communism. For the left, they would appeal to the workers getting screwed over by foreigners and greedy capitalists. The common denominator, of course, was that Jews were behind everything that was wrong with Weimar Germany.

[Chulo]

Wow...the NAZIs were not lefists. He had some anger.
In general terms of privatization vs. nationalization, then the nazis were leftist, since the very meaning of National Socialism was to remove the privatized sector and have it under government control.


Actually, Nazis are essentially anyone you mildly disagree with. The nazis are seen as evil incarnate, therefore labeling someone who's views you don't like a nazi is par for the course.
Nazi come from German for Nationalsozialismus which the National Socialist German Workers’ Party favored. It was NOT a reference to evil or disagreement. Even your basic definition as one you disagree with is not valid. Calling someone one a nazi on the other hand identifies them with the actions of the Nazi party.

[Derbedeu]

In general terms of privatization vs. nationalization, then the nazis were leftist, since the very meaning of National Socialism was to remove the privatized sector and have it under government control.


Incorrect. Companies such as Krupp and I.G. Farben enjoyed their greatest success under the Nazis. Contrary to popular opinion they were never controlled by the Nazis, and enjoyed some of the greatest autonomy ever, becoming virtual masters over their workers. The Nazis were fine with this as their policy was an authoritarian one, and they believed that the owners of the companies should be masters in their own home (or in this case factories).

Naturally the companies went along with the Nazis since it gave them huge profits. Nonetheless they were never beholden to the Nazis, or in danger of becoming nationalized. Hitler even signed a special decree to circumvent an old Wiemar law in order to keep Krupp a privately owned family business.

[MichaelF]

Nonetheless they were never beholden to the Nazis, or in danger of becoming nationalized.

Of course, if they did anything that the Party disapproved of.....piano wire.

There is overt control/nationalization...and then there is "men with leather trenchcoats knocking at the door in the night"...

[khaz]

Amazing people think Nazis were not leftists, good job main stream media.

[Soldat_Américain]

Amazing people think Nazis were not leftists, good job main stream media.
Well I think the problem you find with that is today. Neo Nazis, Aryan Nations types identify themselves as being on the right side of the spectrum.

[Derbedeu]

Of course, if they did anything that the Party disapproved of.....piano wire.

There is overt control/nationalization...and then there is "men with leather trenchcoats knocking at the door in the night"...

Nope. The Krupp family was some of the most powerful family in Wilhelmine Germany till the collapse of the Nazis. The Nazis went out of their way to appease powerful industrialists, because they knew that their plans could not be accomplished without them. Krupp ignored or circumvented Nazi laws numerous times and Hitler never even attempted to move against them. Interestingly enough, the Nazis actually managed to come to power only due to generous funds provided to them by the major industrialists. In many ways, firms like Krupp can be said to share a large responsibility in bringing about the Nazi party to power.


Amazing people think Nazis were not leftists, good job main stream media.

Nazis were not leftists. They had always been diametrically opposed to the Bolsheviks and socialists. The social programs that they introduced only followed the Bismarck (another conservative) mold of treating workers in a paternalistic manner. Because the employer-employee relationship was a paternalistic one, workers were expected to obey their employers to the letter, at the risk of losing their jobs and benefits. Unions, needless to say, were outlawed completely by the Nazis, not only at the behest of the industrialists, but because it contradicted Nazi ideology.

[MichaelF]

Neo Nazis, Aryan Nations types identify themselves as being on the right side of the spectrum.

Most of the NeoNazi herd would be the first into the ovens, back in the 30's. Not exactly a photogenic mob. Even the ones who have all their (own) teeth.

[Toolhead]

Just because that he's a Marine does not make his Opinion more valid.The Nazi party was not leftist in fact the majority of Americans are not educated enough to throw words like "leftist or "nazi" around.(especially the ones going to these meetings) People need to start thinking outside of the box.This left or right bull crap is so tiresome.

[TheSteve]

Just because that he's a Marine does not make his Opinion more valid.The Nazi party was not leftist in fact the majority of Americans are not educated enough to throw words like "leftist or "nazi" around.(especially the ones going to these meetings) People need to start thinking outside of the box.This left or right bull crap is so tiresome.
Agreed, its sad to see Americans so sidetracked with meanless garbage like this.

[speedwagon]

the majority of Americans are not educated enough to throw words like "leftist or "nazi" around.

Let's not start a pissing match by throwing around statements like that. More accurately, the political culture in the US is a unique animal in that it has taken on a lot of new meanings for words that have been common parlance in the rest of the political world for, in some cases, hundreds of years. "Liberal" is a prime example. Liberalism is the basis of all political thought in the US, and for the most part in the rest of the democratic world. Speaking incredibly broadly, it embodies the values of both parties in the US, with its focus on individualism and self determination, but, the word itself has nonetheless become some kind of heinous insult to be thrown around in the US when you want to imply someone is a coward, or a leftist of any sort. The same has happened with the word "Nazi," a lot of people will use the term to describe anything at all they see as evil or unamerican, whether its a gross misuse of the word or not.

And no, the Nazi's were not by any means leftist. Break the left-right spectrum down into 2 spectrums, social and economic. Clearly, socially the nazis were as far right as the world has ever seen. Economically too, they fell on the right of the spectrum because they promoted an organic model of society in which private economic groups were free to do business as they wished, and a great deal of people got fantastically rich under the Nazi regime. Yes, oppression existed, yes, if you didnt show a sufficient amount of nationalist fervor you may have problems with the state. But, this is not government regulation of capital itself, and there was no overt effort by the government to undergo large scale leftist style redistribution of wealth in order to eliminate class divides, in fact, the most obvious part of the fascist ideology of the Nazi party was its belief that some people are better than others, people are not equal, and that those class divides that Marxists and any other variety of leftists complain so much about were, in fact, natural.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that its absolutely disgusting that anyone would decide that the use of that term is even remotely appropriate in the current political debate. Not only is it morally despicable to compare a group of people attempting to provide the most basic access to healthcare to all Americans to a murderous regime that is nothing but a stain on human history as a whole, but it's grossly inaccurate and revealing of disturbing attitudes that seem to be coming to a boil among certain groups of people right now.

[notherhen40]

Let's not start a pissing match by throwing around statements like that. More accurately, the political culture in the US is a unique animal in that it has taken on a lot of new meanings for words that have been common parlance in the rest of the political world for, in some cases, hundreds of years. "Liberal" is a prime example. Liberalism is the basis of all political thought in the US, and for the most part in the rest of the democratic world. Speaking incredibly broadly, it embodies the values of both parties in the US, with its focus on individualism and self determination, but, the word itself has nonetheless become some kind of heinous insult to be thrown around in the US when you want to imply someone is a coward, or a leftist of any sort. The same has happened with the word "Nazi," a lot of people will use the term to describe anything at all they see as evil or unamerican, whether its a gross misuse of the word or not.

And no, the Nazi's were not by any means leftist. Break the left-right spectrum down into 2 spectrums, social and economic. Clearly, socially the nazis were as far right as the world has ever seen. Economically too, they fell on the right of the spectrum because they promoted an organic model of society in which private economic groups were free to do business as they wished, and a great deal of people got fantastically rich under the Nazi regime. Yes, oppression existed, yes, if you didnt show a sufficient amount of nationalist fervor you may have problems with the state. But, this is not government regulation of capital itself, and there was no overt effort by the government to undergo large scale leftist style redistribution of wealth in order to eliminate class divides, in fact, the most obvious part of the fascist ideology of the Nazi party was its belief that some people are better than others, people are not equal, and that those class divides that Marxists and any other variety of leftists complain so much about were, in fact, natural.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that its absolutely disgusting that anyone would decide that the use of that term is even remotely appropriate in the current political debate. Not only is it morally despicable to compare a group of people attempting to provide the most basic access to healthcare to all Americans to a murderous regime that is nothing but a stain on human history as a whole, but it's grossly inaccurate and revealing of disturbing attitudes that seem to be coming to a boil among certain groups of people right now.

You got that right...and whats more, with the economy going further south than it already is, its going to get a lot worse..to the point of reveloution.

Most of the typical American stupidity at these meetings have nothing to do with what is going on at hand. And most,are funded by very well organized anti-policy groups whose sole agenda is to side track what these meetings are about.

Health care access needs to be reformed, and yes it is to the point where government needs to step in. More needs to be done to reign in prescription drug companies, private insurance companies, hospitals, and greedy doctors and more regulation slapped on to govern an out of control system. And it is these very groups that organize, pay, and transport these groups to these town hall meetings.

As I stated before, with the economy going further south than it already is, people losing homes, jobs, and wealth, and big government seen as the culprit, things are going to reach a fever pitch...reveloution.

[Noons86]

And what's up with him ranting about "indoctrinating our kids" at a healthcare forum? What could he possibly be referring to? What are kids being indoctrinated with? I want to think he's referring to either evolution or *** ed, but it could just as well be something really obscure.

Either way "stay away from my kids" - talking to a congressman like he's a pedophile?

All in all, if you're going to accuse any government of taking away your freedom, on camera no less, at least do everyone the curtosey of making a reference to something specific. You know, so that the rest of us can understand what the f*ck you're talking about.

[Cap'ndaddy]

As far as indoctrinating our kids, if you've ever had any experience with the public school system, it is indoctrination. "Green" math, "Green" history, "Green" science... I have a niece who came home with a science assignment dealing with pollution and water usage, went to US gov websites and found all of the data in the book was wrong. She brought home a math book where every problem involved "green" themes. Thanks to Gore, the green movement gets schools more money, not teaching them legit math and science.

As far as left and right, what truly is the definition? If your definition of left and right is the difference between Dem and Rep, then I think that's incorrect. The political spectrum is divided up with Anarchy at the far right, no government control, and Totalitarianism and the far left, total government control. By this measure, currently both the US political parties are left-wing, their just on slightly different tracks to get there. Looking at that spectrum, yes, the Nazi party was leftist because they favored more government control. Were they conservative? In most ways yes. So, if your definition of left and right is liberal vs conservative, then no they weren't leftist. The problem is the spectrum has been changed to the liberal vs conservative. It's not, it's control vs anarchy. The US was founded to the right of center of that spectrum with limited government control, but was founded on vastly liberal principles. So, instead of thinking linear left right, we should start thinking quadratically, with left/right (control/anarchy) and up/down (conservative/liberal). Maybe then we'd start actually seeing the political spectrum for what it is.

[Chulo]

Incorrect. Companies such as Krupp and I.G. Farben enjoyed their greatest success under the Nazis. Contrary to popular opinion they were never controlled by the Nazis, and enjoyed some of the greatest autonomy ever, becoming virtual masters over their workers. The Nazis were fine with this as their policy was an authoritarian one, and they believed that the owners of the companies should be masters in their own home (or in this case factories).

Naturally the companies went along with the Nazis since it gave them huge profits. Nonetheless they were never beholden to the Nazis, or in danger of becoming nationalized. Hitler even signed a special decree to circumvent an old Wiemar law in order to keep Krupp a privately owned family business.
There were plenty of companies present in Nazi Germany, it does not mean they were wholly independent or fully reliant and subjected to. The very purpose of the Nazi party was to develop a socialist institution where it integrated many different ideas, not just what we know or think is a socialist (communistic) ideology. Because incidentally they were very much against Communism.
A fascistic unified corporatist ideology would require that the factories be "owned by the people, for the people, and controlled by the people" but yet maintained to the very nature of the Nazi anti-capitalistic rhetoric, where the good of the factory/business/company is ultimately for the good of the nation.
So now, under a nationalistic guise, the Nazis had control over industry, where the "greed" of the owners was displaced by the "good" of the nation. The very focus of the Nazis against the Jews were not just because of race, but economic reasons also.

Hitler himself said "“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance.”

What confuses people is that the Nazis hated both the Americans (capitalist) and Russians (Communist), so dont really understand what system they followed.

So, yes there were companies in Germany, and yes they had some control and say. But dont forget, you control a person best when they dont know you are doing it.

[Fuschimuschi]

I actually think it is pointless to try to place the NSDAP on either end of the US political spectrum, even at the far end of either fringe. They would appeal to both the right and left of European politics. For the right, they would emphasize nationalism, tradition, and the threat of Communism. For the left, they would appeal to the workers getting screwed over by foreigners and greedy capitalists. The common denominator, of course, was that Jews were behind everything that was wrong with Weimar Germany.

This is pretty spot on.

[vryhpyammoadded]

You smug, pea brained hypocrites simply don’t get it. You attack this man because you can’t understand his poorly verbalized reasoning, blaming shifting it as the result of his being manipulated by some nefarious powerful interest group plot against health care? Just how ignorant can you be and why should it matter anyway?

The US Constitution contains the rules for constructing a Federal government that protects the rights of the political minority providing them an open forum for free unfettered, discourse. Right or wrong, why should you be so rude and uncivilized if this mans words were his own or those of some powerful allied interest?

Are you saying that because his language doesn’t express a well formulated argument, that his words chosen are offensive or that he’s not a Lawyer and member of the ABA that he’s unqualified to speak? Danger, that’s a bad bit of reasoning if you do. Worse, do you desire to silence groups of people who disagree with your philosophy, political or economic needs?

Why shouldn’t a “qualified” opposing organization be allowed to assist individuals who have difficulty voicing an opinion? Personally I find US talk radio and other mass media boorish and their political opinion amateur, lacking depth but they are good for a laugh now and then and they do, on rare occasion, voice some gems of the dissenting argument. Also, why is it so many feel that only their side’s media should be allowed monopoly broadcast rights?

Are your politicians, party leaders, favored media outlets, your ideas for tomorrow more qualified, therefore, others should STFU and accept what’s dictated to them? How do you know you’re so right?

What if this all really comes down to esthetics, philosophy, are you willing to see that and be mindful of the minority dissenting opinion, I mean so many are so gung ho about multiculturalism, respecting the rights of those who believe differently. Just look at all the apology flowing from so many orifices for the poor downtrodden people of the world that the “evil Bush” stepped on and stirred up. They’re just different, we should respect their religion, their culture and not coerce and kill them even if nut jobs keep pouring out of into our world to blow us up right?

So, what if it’s about a more personal economic philosophy, then its different? Now you can disregard all those high minded multicultural views and go for the throat, by god it’s about money this time, that’s personal! Let’s give the greedy tightwad bastards what for and take their income for ourselves, sh*t yeh!

The man said, “Who are you to decide MY health care”. He’s mad thinking some pin head politico’s have decided they can wrestle away his right to choose so as to construct yet another poorly managed bureaucratic pile of sh*t. He’s angry thinking politico’s are gunning for his hard earned money to float a near bankrupt con job that is DC. He’s thinking why invest in this loss anymore. He’s lost faith in the government, faith in the people.

He sees manhandling, strong arm tactics by the majority attacking the minority knowing it is an absolutely ignorant way to run a government. Don’t go doing things the hard way, ease up and stop shoving or you’ll have so many angry men like this guy that you just might find the tide has turned on your glorious little dictatorial utopia. Debate the points and if it ultimately comes down to esthetics, understand you need to take great care getting others to see your view.

Oh but wait, there’s that little nagging problem of the managerial elite, on the behest of their constituents, having spent and borrowed their way into a corner. Now it’s imperative you get guys like this marine, quite likely a man who has disagreed with the run away government spending for years, a man who’s been fiscally responsible, to fork over his hard earned money one more time lest the economy implode. I'm sure he's been sold this argument befor.
So, the majority strong arms him? It’s no wonder he’s calling you Nazi’s. It’s about the closest slur he can relate to you. I would have simply said fvcking cvnt tyrants or clueless bullying ****h*ads, it’d mean the same.

So, America do you show your true colors rolling this marine to steal his wallet to pay for decades of having your cake and eating it too? Are you willing to go the long term commitment of putting the screws down on a few million Americans to slip them the bone?
Argue what you will, people don’t like being raped and this is how about 11 million voters will see it. Add TARP, crap and tax, the attempted social security fix that’s coming and a multitude of other wealth redistribution schemes designed to keep this sinking ship of state, currently swamped with debt, afloat and you’re sure to see these numbers grow a hell of a lot larger.

[California Joe]

Fact: The Nazis had the coolest uniforms evah!

[Arfah]

Fact: The Nazis had the coolest uniforms evah!

Prince Harry can't be wrong. p-)

[notherhen40]

Fact: The Nazis had the coolest uniforms evah!

yeah, I like the high polished boot with spiked heels along with that tight fitting uniform...grooooowl!

[Breerman]

The simple truth is that they did were whatever fitted the advance of their ideology. They had no absolute economic agenda but had a mixed ad hoc-like system with both capitalism and socialism. Much like the Social Democrats.

To have a modern example (however not a direct analogy) one can look to Red China that now is more like the home of cutthroat Capitalism.

[Macs.]

Fact: The Nazis had the coolest uniforms evah!

Hugo Boss - A swabian success story.

[little icebear]

Ah... nazism = leftism because the nazis would have hanged any capitalist that would not contribute to the national cause. That´s some kind of control over the economy and that´s why they are socialists.

Great logic.