Dalai Lama to visit Taiwan

[Ordie]

This is a classic damn if you do...damn if you don't situation.



Taiwan officials: Dalai Lama to visit this month

By PETER ENAV, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, August 26, 2009
(08-26) 05:37 PDT TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) --
A group of Taiwan officials said Wednesday the Dalai Lama has accepted their invitation to visit this month, presenting the island's China-friendly president with an embarrassing political dilemma.
A joint statement by leaders from seven municipalities recently hit by deadly Typhoon Morakot said the Tibetan spiritual leader planned to be in Taiwan from Aug. 31 to Sept. 4 and would visit storm victims.
The invitation is sensitive for China on two fronts. China says the Dalai Lama is working to undermine its authority in Tibet. China also claims self-governing Taiwan as part of its territory, though they split amid civil war in 1949.
The invitation from the leaders — all from the opposition Democratic Progressive Party_ comes as President Ma Ying-jeou faces criticism that he botched the government's response to the island's deadliest storm in 50 years. The National Fire Agency says more than 670 are dead or missing.
Ma spokesman Wang Yu-chi declined to say whether Taiwan would allow the Dalai Lama to visit. Analysts said such a politically sensitive visit was unlikely, though the Dalai Lama has made three visits to the island over the past 12 years.
"We have jointly invited Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama to visit Taiwan on August 31, to make a speech and bestow blessings on Taiwan and the (typhoon) victims," the leaders' statement said. "The Dalai Lama has said he's very happy to come."
The Dalai Lama has accepted the invitation "in priniciple," said Tenzin Takhla, his spokesman in Dharmsala, India, home to the Tibetan government-in-exile.
He will not travel until the organizers have official approval for the visit, Takhla said, because "he doesn't want to cause any inconvenience for the Taiwanese government."
In China, the Taiwan Affairs Office, which handles Taiwan-related questions, was closed Wednesday evening. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs had no immediate response.
Last December, Ma nixed plans for a Dalai Lama visit in what was largely seen as a move to placate Beijing. Improving relations between China and Taiwan is the signature issue of Ma's presidency.
One criticism against Ma since the typhoon is that his government delayed accepting foreign assistance to help deal with the disaster, out of fear of angering China.
Political scientist George Tsai of Taipei's Chinese Culture University said the Dalai Lama announcement has put Ma in a bind.
"If the central government allows Dalai Lama to visit, relations with China will be damaged, but if not, the public will think the central government lacks humanitarian concern (for victims)," Tsai said.
He said the China consideration would probably win out, making the visit very unlikely.
Andrew Yang of Taipei's Council of Advanced Political Studies agreed.
"I don't think the Ma administration will let Dalai Lama come, as Ma has already rejected the possibility of such a visit," he said. "The DPP municipal chiefs are just trying to lash out at Ma when his approval ratings are down."
Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/26/international/i053700D57.DTL&type=printable

[hulaku]

IMO I dont think they will let the Dalai Lama visit.

The Chinese Government would go ape sh*t crazy if Taiwan lets him in.

[Ordie]

IMO I dont think they will let the Dalai Lama visit.

The Chinese Government would go ape sh*t crazy if Taiwan lets him in.

Yes and no.

In theory, The ROC on Taiwan never ceded claims on Tibet.

The Dalai Lama's visit could be framed in a way that he recognizes China's claims over Tibet.

As per the ROC official map.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/roc_administrative_and_claims.jpg

[hulaku]

But the Dalai Lama already agrees that Tibet is a part of China and he wants more cultural autonomy for Tibet.

[TheMiddlePath]

Quote ""
We have jointly invited Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama to visit Taiwan on August 31, to make a speech and bestow blessings on Taiwan and the (typhoon) victims," the leaders' statement said. ""

Taiwan has much more qualified and famous monks (But unknown to the west) to do the job.

The reason to invite hime is clear. To politicise the disaster.

[d'artagnan]

he's been given the red light already to visit taiwan.

True, it's to politicise the disaster in TW. I agree..

And that's what makes many in China resent DL, he wants to talk, but never stop being annoying, then don't expect us to be serious to make any sort of concession to someone as powerless as him. So... don't blame us if he dies in foreign land. ie India.

Otherwise, I tend to not to give a fcuk to him anymore. Not even he'll live till 100.

[d'artagnan]

Yes and no.

In theory, The ROC on Taiwan never ceded claims on Tibet.

The Dalai Lama's visit could be framed in a way that he recognizes China's claims over Tibet.



Well, I don't care how he thinks.

I think... if u put it in the Three Kingdom analogy, china is like Cao Cao, and Dalai is like Liu Bei before he became powerful, ie humble and nice and weak, but had the potential to become very strong. And Cao Cao was fooled by Liu Bei and gave him the chance to be free and strong. So we won't make the same mistake Cao Cao did, and we'll not like potential chanllengers like him to get away with it. Not that I hate him like Lieberman's view on Arabs, but simply from a pure political point of view: maximise national interests.

And let him wait 'optimistically' (as he claimed for "in a long term") for good.

[Ordie]

To politicise the disaster.

Every disaster (natural or man made) has political consequences.

[Steak-Sauce]

If he wants to visit the victims and / or pray respects to the dead, sure, let him go, nothing wrong with that.


Every disaster (natural or man made) has political consequences.
x2, everywhere on this planet.

[d'artagnan]

If he wants to visit the victims and / or pray respects to the dead, sure, let him go, nothing wrong with that.


x2, everywhere on this planet.

I have to say, the opposition in TW did a great job, it pushes KMT with no choice but to allow DL to go to TW. Absolutely a smart as maneuver :cantbeli:

Prob my last word to DL is: WTF do u care? :bash:

[Ordie]

It pushes the limits of ROC autonomy vis a vis with the PRC.

Good move on the ROC in my opinion. It may force the PRC to shut up and not to give the Dalai Lama more publicity and the backers of Taiwanese independence.

[d'artagnan]

It pushes the limits of ROC autonomy vis a vis with the PRC.

Good move on the ROC in my opinion. It may force the PRC to shut up and not to give the Dalai Lama more publicity and the backers of Taiwanese independence.

could u be a bit REALISTIC rather than talking those autonomy in ROC which is really not on their table whatsoever?

DL wants his justice by playing those tricks with us? LOLZ... we will do exact the opposite by making their lives more miserable than ever. Even after his death, if some Tibetans want to have some intifada since there's no more 'middle way' after him? Well, see those ppl in Gaza? China = Israel ^ 10 in dealing with enemies.

[Ordie]

Even after his death, if some Tibetans want to have some intifada since there's no more 'middle way' after him?

The Dalai Lama never dies, he will be reincarnated.

[TheMiddlePath]

Maybe MHJ should also invite the Pope too.

Most of the people who died in the disaster were christains anyway.

[LaoSexMachine]

Maybe MHJ should also invite the Pope too.

Most of the people who died in the disaster were christains anyway.

Did you take a poll?

[matthew.manhorn]

The KMT is just as anti-Tibetan as the Chicoms.

[Ordie]

Maybe MHJ should also invite the Pope too.

Most of the people who died in the disaster were christains anyway.

That should not be an issue since the ROC and the Holy See (Vatican) have diplomatic relations.

[Solvent]

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7405/southparksuperbestfrien.jpg
Maybe more


(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7405/southparksuperbestfrien.jpg)

[Ordie]

The ROC president is in a lose - lose situation.

Especially in light of the recent disasters and government mishandling the rescue and recovery.

The DDP and its base in the south have nothing to lose.

[TheMiddlePath]

That should not be an issue since the ROC and the Holy See (Vatican) have diplomatic relations.


I do not think the Holy See (UNLIKE THE DALAI LAMA) will allow himself to be used like a political football.

[Ordie]

I do not think the Holy See (UNLIKE THE DALAI LAMA) will allow himself to be used like a political football.

As a Roman Catholic and a student of history, never underestimate the political nature of the Bishop of Rome.

The fact that the Papacity has been around since the Roman Empire speaks volumes of thier political acumen.

[Shuimo]

As a Roman Catholic and a student of history, never underestimate the political nature of the Bishop of Rome.

The fact that the Papacity has been around since the Roman Empire speaks volumes of thier political acumen.

Perhaps Dalailama is clumsily copying the example of Pope?:roll:

[d'artagnan]

just read the newspaper in taiwan, they are also saying that it's DPP's political tricks, and both president and vice president won't meet DL nor will there be any press conferences. the speaker of legislative yuan (from KMT majority) said he would meet if if they meet up. Of course DPP will meet DL for their own political purposes.

It's funny to see DL becomes a political WHORE. And fairly cheap. He only needs to dress in his monk wardrobes (like a whore dressed with stockings and other crap) to show up and make those who will be satisfied for their own political agendas.

[Ordie]

It's funny to see DL becomes a political WHORE. And fairly cheap. He only needs to dress in his monk wardrobes (like a whore dressed with stockings and other crap) to show up and make those who will be satisfied for their own political agendas.

Why do you bother getting so worked up over him and his visit to Formosa?

[d'artagnan]

Why do you bother getting so worked up over him and his visit to Formosa?

Because I enjoy watching his political moves. It's fun to see both sides trying to outwit each other, while the outcome's certain already. It's like watching a harry potter movie, you know voldemort will be defeated, but you still want to see all the up and downs as the plot moves on.

[Shuimo]

Why do you bother getting so worked up over him and his visit to Formosa?

Why do you call TW Fromaosa?
It is a highly insulting term to refer to TW!p-)

[LaoSexMachine]

just read the newspaper in taiwan, they are also saying that it's DPP's political tricks, and both president and vice president won't meet DL nor will there be any press conferences. the speaker of legislative yuan (from KMT majority) said he would meet if if they meet up. Of course DPP will meet DL for their own political purposes.

It's funny to see DL becomes a political WHORE. And fairly cheap. He only needs to dress in his monk wardrobes (like a whore dressed with stockings and other crap) to show up and make those who will be satisfied for their own political agendas.


It's funny to see bunch of Chinamen getting all worked up over an old monk.

[Shuimo]

It's funny to see bunch of Chinamen getting all worked up over an old monk.

You missed the point by no small margin!

[LaoSexMachine]

You missed the point by no small margin!

Seems like where ever the Dali Lama goes you posters get you panties in a twist.

[TheMiddlePath]

As a Roman Catholic and a student of history, never underestimate the political nature of the Bishop of Rome.

The fact that the Papacity has been around since the Roman Empire speaks volumes of thier political acumen.


Still.... UNLIKE THE DALAI LAMA the Holy See will not allow himself to be used like a political football.

And I just love it when China poke fun at the Vatican authority and appoints its own bishops. And makes the aging out of touch pope hits the roof.

[Ordie]

Still.... UNLIKE THE DALAI LAMA the Holy See will not allow himself to be used like a political football.

And I just love it when China poke fun at the Vatican authority and appoints its own bishops. And makes the aging out of touch pope hits the roof.

It was an aging Polish Pope that spearheaded the demise of Communist countries in Eastern Europe.

That's why China does not allow the Pope to appoint bishops within China.

[TheMiddlePath]

The Dalai Lama visit to Taiwan is begining to backfire on the DPP. For the first time since the disaster strike, the DPP is now on the defensive.

They now has to explain why so many famous Taiwanese Monks not good enough.
Why invite a Tibetan monk when most of those affected are aborigines and thus not buddhist.
Why would it not be more approprate to invite the Holy Pope. What about the prostestants souls.
This also backfire on DPP stand on 'Taiwan and Taiwanese only' policy.

And if Dalai Lama supporters starts to show Tibetan flags, the DPP will be in trouble. not to mention Dalai Lama own reputation.

Today even the pro-unification party showed up and protested at the DPP headquarters for playing politic instead of helping the victims.

I will be watching this development closely. Another Taiwanese soap opera in the works....yea !

[Ordie]

And if Dalai Lama supporters starts to show Tibetan flags, the DPP will be in trouble. not to mention Dalai Lama own reputation.

Wishful thinking.

The fact of the matter is that the DDP and the Dalai Lama have nothing to lose.

On the otherhand, President Ma Ying-jeou (KMT) is on the defensive with 29% approval rating from the Taiwanese public. Much of it due to his poor handling of Typhoon Morakot disaster. (Taiwanese version of Hurricane Katrina).

Bottom line: Ma Ying-jeou cannot placate Beijing or his own constituency by denying the Dalai Lama's entry.

The PRC public cannot engage in boycott against Taiwan as in the case with France, since Taiwanese owned businesses are the largest investors and major employers within the PRC.

[TheMiddlePath]

Wishful thinking.

The fact of the matter is that the DDP and the Dalai Lama have nothing to lose.

On the otherhand, President Ma Ying-jeou (KMT) is on the defensive with 29% approval rating from the Taiwanese public. Much of it due to his poor handling of Typhoon Morakot disaster. (Taiwanese version of Hurricane Katrina).

Bottom line: Ma Ying-jeou cannot placate Beijing or his own constituency by denying the Dalai Lama's entry.

The PRC public cannot engage in boycott against Taiwan as in the case with France, since Taiwanese owned businesses are the largest investors and major employers within the PRC.


As a matter of fact, the local government is just as responsible for the poor response. The southern part of Taiwan are the DPP stronghold. Most of the local officials are DPP people. They were the best people to know the local conditions and they should have known which village are at risk of landslide and issue an evacuation. So far they were happy to let MHJ take all the blame.

To make matter worst, due to politics they caused unnessary delays of aid from Mainland China such as the portable houses and blankets saying they are poison. Then they prevent China from sending helicopters and technicians saying they might be spies.

The last straw was when they invited Dalai Lama.

Heck, Dalai Lama did not even issue any statement when Taiwan was hit by the Tyhoon and when the villiage of 500 was burried in the landslide. So much about caring for Chinese people.

I bet DPP did not expect MHJ to approve the VISA for Dalai Lama. Now it has been approved we now have a Tibetan monk in the Soap Opera.

[TheMiddlePath]

It was an aging Polish Pope that spearheaded the demise of Communist countries in Eastern Europe.

That's why China does not allow the Pope to appoint bishops within China.

Its about time the whole world just ignore the Pope and appoint their own Bishop.

[Elbs]

Its about time the whole world just ignore the Pope and appoint their own Bishop.

Right... just because the CCP has no regard for the traditions and history of the Roman Catholic faith doesn't mean other countries will be so rash in their treatment of religion.

[TheMiddlePath]

Right... just because the CCP has no regard for the traditions and history of the Roman Catholic faith doesn't mean other countries will be so rash in their treatment of religion.

This has nothing to do with China.

Why allow yourself to be controlled by an ancient political system in another country ?
Not to mention all the scandals, child molestation etc.

Just elect your own bishops.

[TheMiddlePath]

The ROC president is in a lose - lose situation.

Especially in light of the recent disasters and government mishandling the rescue and recovery.

The DDP and its base in the south have nothing to lose.

The DPP already lost the Aborigines.
The representative of all the Taiwan Aborigines tribe went to Mainland China and came back with a big cheque with no strings attached.

http://www.youtube.com/v/G7ZioUpwQdc

[Ordie]

This has nothing to do with China.

Why allow yourself to be controlled by an ancient political system in another country ? .

For Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ with an unbroken liniage from St. Peter ( Jesus Apostile) to Pope Benedict. We do not see it as a nation state per se, but the historical center of our faith.

[Steak-Sauce]

This has nothing to do with China.

Why allow yourself to be controlled by an ancient political system in another country ?
Not to mention all the scandals, child molestation etc.

Just elect your own bishops.

Why allow yourself to be controlled by an ancient political system in your country?
Not to mention all the scandals, Tiananmen 1989 etc.

...

Sorry, on a more serious note, as far as I know the only country controlled by this "ancient political system" is the Vatican City itself since 1929. Perhaps you did not know it, but our Pope is a head-of-state.


If there's somnething common in Tibet and Vatican, it is that the Pole pope, who came from an occupied country, John Paul II. had seen the fall of communism in the WarPac. I hope the reincarnation of Buddha, DL will also see the fall of the chicoms.
That has to be quoted and highlighted for truth!

[TheMiddlePath]

NEWS Not from BBC or CNN.

Taiwan has a lot of senior monks, not necessarily "a monk from afar will recite scriptures"

Ma Ying-jeou had less people on the island authorities to relief slow, but the reconstruction present, the pan-green camp, by the Dalai Lama playing card relief, triggering political battles, distributed relief attention, aroused public resentment.
Kidnapped victims to expose the DPP at the same time, political action, and placing the work of the expense of the real country and people from untold miseries can be avoided Shoushuliangduan for losing. The eyes of the people of Taiwan the same sharp, pan-green camp's political tactics, the Dalai Lama's cosmetic Xu Qing, how can they deceive the people. Such superficial hypocritical excuse to fool the people of Taiwan.

China Times "editorial pointed out that the DPP local government officials should fully understand the religious beliefs of the disaster areas, 7 DPP county executives are themselves belong to the Presbyterian Church who are not followers of Tibetan Buddhism, at this time, force to invite the Dalai Lama to Taiwan, said that no political considerations, it was a joke, Nanbu Cheng seven city and county executives are ready to convert to Tibetan Buddhism?

DPP now open themselves to attack from Pro-Unification party members.

http://i32.tinypic.com/28tj66u.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/4jkqvr.jpg

[Elbs]

For Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ with an unbroken liniage from St. Peter ( Jesus Apostile) to Pope Benedict. We do not see it as a nation state per se, but the historical center of our faith.

x2 well said Ordie

[Ordie]

This has nothing to do with China.

Why allow yourself to be controlled by an ancient political system in another country ?
Not to mention all the scandals, child molestation etc.

Just elect your own bishops.


If there's somnething common in Tibet and Vatican, it is that the Pole pope, who came from an occupied country, John Paul II. had seen the fall of communism in the WarPac. I hope the reincarnation of Buddha, DL will also see the fall of the chicoms.

If Tibetian Buddhism outlasted many Despotic Chinese Dynasties, there should be no doubt that they will outlast the Despotic Chinese Communist Party. It's the believers that support a faith, not it's leaders.

As far as Formosans switching faiths, they are free to do so. Asians tend to mix and match beliefs and religions.

Back to Taiwan.... What is happening to President Ma, is the same that happened to president Bush after Hurricane Katrina. The lack of response led to the lack of confidence of people have in thirty leader. As I said earlier, all disasters have political consequences.

[TheMiddlePath]

If Tibetian Buddhism outlasted many Despotic Chinese Dynasties, there should be no doubt that they will outlast the Despotic Chinese Communist Party. It's the believers that support a faith, not it's leaders.

As far as Formosans switching faiths, they are free to do so. Asians tend to mix and match beliefs and religions.

Back to Taiwan.... What is happening to President Ma, is the same that happened to president Bush after Hurricane Katrina. The lack of response led to the lack of confidence of people have in thirty leader. As I said earlier, all disasters have political consequences.

Yes, back to the topic. Yes, Ma was slow and lack leadership. But by inviting Dalai Lama, DPP over played and over politicised the disaster. Now it has backfired and all the 7 Christains DPP villiage head now have a lot of explaination to do.

And I understand that Christains are very particular about mixing beliefs. My relative who are Christains WILL NOT ate food that had been used in Budhist offerings rituals. My mother all the time had to prepare 2 sets of food. One set for the rituals and another for Christains relatives to eat.
Budhists on the otherhand do not really care if you are muslim, christians, jews. So long if you do good you will be enlighten.

So I now wonder how the 7 Christain village heads can ask a Buddhist Monk to chant and bless the Christian victims.

Not to mention that Dalai Lama allowed himself to end up in a political storm. At least the Americans just came with the aid and left quckly. They seems to be aware of Taiwan politics.

[LaoSexMachine]

NEWS Not from BBC or CNN.

Taiwan has a lot of senior monks, not necessarily "a monk from afar will recite scriptures"

Ma Ying-jeou had less people on the island authorities to relief slow, but the reconstruction present, the pan-green camp, by the Dalai Lama playing card relief, triggering political battles, distributed relief attention, aroused public resentment.
Kidnapped victims to expose the DPP at the same time, political action, and placing the work of the expense of the real country and people from untold miseries can be avoided Shoushuliangduan for losing. The eyes of the people of Taiwan the same sharp, pan-green camp's political tactics, the Dalai Lama's cosmetic Xu Qing, how can they deceive the people. Such superficial hypocritical excuse to fool the people of Taiwan.

China Times "editorial pointed out that the DPP local government officials should fully understand the religious beliefs of the disaster areas, 7 DPP county executives are themselves belong to the Presbyterian Church who are not followers of Tibetan Buddhism, at this time, force to invite the Dalai Lama to Taiwan, said that no political considerations, it was a joke, Nanbu Cheng seven city and county executives are ready to convert to Tibetan Buddhism?

DPP now open themselves to attack from Pro-Unification party members.

http://i32.tinypic.com/28tj66u.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/4jkqvr.jpg



As the Dalai Lama arrived at a Taipei train station, there was a scuffle between police and some 50 supporters of Tibet's unification with China, the Associated Press news agency reported.
On Monday, the Dalai Lama will visit the worst-hit village of Hsiaolin, where nearly 500 people were buried by a mudslide.
Pro-China criticism
He will lead a mass prayer and address the island's Buddhist followers during his five-day visit.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8229613.stm

Prothelysing is not part of Buddhist teaching. It is against it.

[Ordie]

Christians are half Jewish and many of the major festivals are surrogates to non Christian beliefs. Many Catholic religious festivals in Latin America have thier roots in Mayan, Aztec, and Incan religion.

It is said, scratch a Christian and you have a pagan.

[d'artagnan]

Back to Taiwan.... What is happening to President Ma, is the same that happened to president Bush after Hurricane Katrina. The lack of response led to the lack of confidence of people have in thirty leader. As I said earlier, all disasters have political consequences.

That's why china needs to retaliate that freeky cynical monk even more,,, since he dared to be more cynical than us. "just give prayers"... yeah right, he disgusts me just like when bush wants oil from iraq but saying it's all about promoting democracy.

[LaoSexMachine]

That's why china needs to retaliate that freeky cynical monk even more,,, since he dared to be more cynical than us. "just give prayers"... yeah right, he disgusts me just like when bush wants oil from iraq but saying it's all about promoting democracy.

The more China demonise the DL the more they look like asses. So what does the DL want in your opinion?

[Ordie]

That's why china needs to retaliate that freeky cynical monk even more,,, since he dared to be more cynical than us. "just give prayers"... yeah right, he disgusts me just like when bush wants oil from iraq but saying it's all about promoting democracy.

All that China needs to do is ignore the Dalai Lama. If China retaliates in any way, it would give him free publicity.

Unlike you, the Dalai Lama is showing compassion to the fallen regardless of faith. What had you done to help the victims.

Sometimes China is it's own worst enemy when it comes to public relations.

Bush is no longer

[TheMiddlePath]

All that China needs to do is ignore the Dalai Lama. If China retaliates in any way, it would give him free publicity.

Unlike you, the Dalai Lama is showing compassion to the fallen regardless of faith. What had you done to help the victims.

Sometimes China is it's own worst enemy when it comes to public relations.

Bush is no longer


But in this case China is watching with glee as pro-unification protesters greeted him everywhere he goes. Protest greeted him too as he arrived in Kaohsiong. What a political mess.

[Ordie]

But in this case China is watching with glee as pro-unification protesters greeted him everywhere he goes. Protest greeted him too as he arrived in Kaohsiong. What a political mess.


Good, that will only attact the press. Thus he will make the front pages.

Free advertising.

[LineDoggie]

That's why china needs to retaliate that freeky cynical monk even more,,, since he dared to be more cynical than us. "just give prayers"... yeah right, he disgusts me just like when bush wants oil from iraq but saying it's all about promoting democracy.
How much Iraqi Oil did we get Einstein? How many Millions of Barrels? Facts and Figures from reliable sources.

As to the Dalai Lama, I am always amazed how visceral chicom supporters are over a single Man who doesnt advocate violence. It drives the chinabots to fits of rage approaching apoplexy about this dude. How's that chinese Boycott of French products going from his French visit? Did France cry uncle yet? rofl or did the chinese start buying status symbol products again?

[LineDoggie]

Good, that will only attact the press. Thus he will make the front pages.

Free advertising. BINGO! Chicoms guaranteed Dalai Lama free publicity and show themselves as narrow minded authoritarians to the free world.

[d'artagnan]

The more China demonise the DL the more they look like asses. So what does the DL want in your opinion?

He wants to cause trouble in the cross straight relationship thus demonstrate us that he can cause even more shlt loads of troubles for us. That's obvious. He's not a damn retard of course. That's why we don't give in to any of his 'autonomy' proposals. Coz i kno that he will be a smart as once he's given a chance again. And no one in the world will ever pressure china on tibet as some ppl pressuring israelis on settlement in palestine. Technically, we are sweet as in such conditions.

[d'artagnan]

All that China needs to do is ignore the Dalai Lama. If China retaliates in any way, it would give him free publicity.

Unlike you, the Dalai Lama is showing compassion to the fallen regardless of faith. What had you done to help the victims.

Sometimes China is it's own worst enemy when it comes to public relations.

Bush is no longer

What i mean by "retaliation' is not that kind of lousy, noisy creepy yelling verbal retaliation. Of course not. Maybe two will be enuf:
1. DL won't be back to Tibet for GOOD.
2. Those refugees won't be back for any reason.

Things like that.

You should see that china is keeping a relative low profile gesture atm. But it doesnt mean we are happy, it will only make us happy by making them miserable. Again, using the middle east analogy: a qassam to israel, 100 palestinians' death.

[d'artagnan]

How much Iraqi Oil did we get Einstein? How many Millions of Barrels? Facts and Figures from reliable sources.

As to the Dalai Lama, I am always amazed how visceral chicom supporters are over a single Man who doesnt advocate violence. It drives the chinabots to fits of rage approaching apoplexy about this dude. How's that chinese Boycott of French products going from his French visit? Did France cry uncle yet? rofl or did the chinese start buying status symbol products again?

Not for oil/geopolitical interests but for the common good of humanity? Plz, these kind of sweet as talk has been around long enuf to ppl to realise that's all garbage. One wont do anything for no obvious real interests in international politics which makes it so cynical.

[Elbs]

You should see that china is keeping a relative low profile gesture atm. But it doesnt mean we are happy, it will only make us happy by making them miserable. Again, using the middle east analogy: a qassam to israel, 100 palestinians' death.

Yes, let's make Tibetans miserable because the big bad CCP is afraid of a bald guy who wears a bedsheet...

[Ordie]

He wants to cause trouble in the cross straight relationship thus demonstrate us that he can cause even more shlt loads of troubles for us. That's obvious. He's not damn retard of course.

What trouble is he causing?

It's not his fault that the typhoon happened.

It's not his fault that the ROC government failed to respond.

It's not his fault that ROC and PRC are separated politically.

It's not his fault that the KMT President of the ROC allowed for his visit.

It's not his fault that the cross straight relationship between the PRC and the ROC may be on hold.

So what's the big deal?

You Chinese have a thin skin and get upset over a monk?

[d'artagnan]

Yes, let's make Tibetans miserable because the big bad CCP is afraid of a bald guy who wears a bedsheet...

Not necessary afraid. Actually i am against those crappy reforms Mao did which caused the uprising in 1959. But, shlt had happened, balance national interests and DL, i choose the first one. And DL's annoying with his subtle insults against China. So too bad.

Again, israel might not be totally right when so many paletinians fled their houses? But will they let them back? NO.

[Ordie]

it will only make us happy by making them miserable.

And you wonder why Han Chinese are hated in Tibet and Xingjiang.

Since you're in New Zealand, why don't you try that anology on the Maori's.

[d'artagnan]

What trouble is he causing?

It's not his fault that the typhoon happened.

It's not his fault that the ROC government failed to respond.

It's not his fault that ROC and PRC are separated politically.

It's not his fault that the KMT President of the ROC allowed for his visit.

It's not his fault that the cross straight relationship between the PRC and the ROC may be on hold.

So what's the big deal?

You Chinese have a thin skin and get upset over a monk?

If you read taiwanese newspaper, many do think its a political game DPP played with KMT and CCP during this crucial moment when ma ying jeou is totally owned like Bush during Katrina. Actually, I respect that, because it's really smart. Much better than before, when DPP crying like a noob saying "why is a democratic country being treated like an orphan in the globe?" (wtf... this is politics).

And DL on the other hand, has lost his leverages such as Olympics and good economy when the West are free to poke China for its geopolitical considerations (yeah, democracy FTW). Then this will be his signal that he still has some cards to play and china has better take him more seriously than ignoring him totally like what is going on now after olympics.

So, it's not his fault, but a chance he shouldn't miss (if i were his adviser, i'll kowtow to the Buddha saying "what a nice to poke Chinese in their face!!"). And we will continuously search our chance to tell him: shut da f up and get lost. No hard feelings, just politics.

[Ordie]

And DL's annoying with his subtle insults against China.

Quit whining and get a thick skin.

[d'artagnan]

And you wonder why Han Chinese are hated in Tibet and Xingjiang.

Since you're in New Zealand, why don't you try that anology on the Maori's.

In NZ, Maori's not used in university instructions except for Maori language, just like in Xinjiang and Tibet because you can't get a bloody job speaking aborigine language. And there's no Maori newspaper and a few Maori books and a few hours of Maori tele. Pretty much the same as what it's like in Xinjiang and Tibet.

And Maori, in general, do tend to have more social and economical reasons (high crime rates, and economy difficulties and lack of education) due to various reasons (as an outsider, i'd rather let those to themselves, i'm not keen to poke their faces with their shortcomings.)

They do have a rather radical Maori Party which is not liked by many, such as Europeans, and as far as the Asian communities, we generally despise that creepy party advocating free and no-examination policy to Maori students and other issues which hurt our interests.

In conclusion, NZ's being uber generous comparing even with the Aussies.

And many Maoris don't like Asians because we are richer and better educated than them. Many of my asian friends including me were yelled at before like "****ing asians".. well, that doesnt make me like them very much. Thus I don't vote for left wing parties who are apologists toward Maoris.

[Ordie]

And DL on the other hand, has lost his leverages such as Olympics and good economy when the West are free to poke China for its geopolitical considerations (yeah, democracy FTW). Then this will be his signal that he still has some cards to play and china has better take him more seriously than ignoring him totally like what is going on now after olympics.

Not really.

China is still a fragile country just as strong as its weakest link.

The CCP legitimacy to govern in increasingly under pressure day by day.
While the city folks may be well off, thier rural cousins are still living in the 18th century.

[Elbs]

If you read taiwanese newspaper, many do think its a political game DPP played with KMT and CCP during this crucial moment when ma ying jeou is totally owned like Bush during Katrina. Actually, I respect that, because it's really smart. Much better than before, when DPP crying like a noob saying "why is a democratic country being treated like an orphan in the globe?" (wtf... this is politics).

And DL on the other hand, has lost his leverages such as Olympics and good economy when the West are free to poke China for its geopolitical considerations (yeah, democracy FTW). Then this will be his signal that he still has some cards to play and china has better take him more seriously than ignoring him totally like what is going on now after olympics.


The Dalai Lama can bring out the inner teen in all of us

China should HTFU... he's a monk. The more you demonize him, the more publicity he gets, and the more the CCP comes out looking like buffoons.

[Ordie]

I find it funny that a Chinese living in New Zealand would decry about Democracy. Yet benefitting from the attributes of a democractic civil society and transparency.

[d'artagnan]

The Dalai Lama can bring out the inner teen in all of us

China should HTFU... he's a monk. The more you demonize him, the more publicity he gets, and the more the CCP comes out looking like buffoons.

Actually, i'm just over 20, and my avatar is my own photo, so... im still very young, i still talk like a young folk in informal situations.

[d'artagnan]

I find it funny that a Chinese living in New Zealand would decry about Democracy. Yet benefitting from the attributes of a democractic civil society and transparency.

I support democratic governance if China wont fall into chaos. I don't agree with strong cencorship, I totally won't mind if comedians mocking even the popular grandpa Wen. And i prefer to be able to reach bbc.com not via proxy. And i'd see all those corrupt officials get a bullet in the head. Yeah, i do support that, because that will be the interests of Chinese people. And that's what I care, if Chinese interests' is damaged, i'm not happy wit it. Thus, because Tibetan/uighur independent will cripple us, I support any measures to crush them for the sake of Chinese people. If shlt happening around the world which doesnt involve with Chinese, i wouldn't even care... (like Sudan, I don't even care to the slightest.)

That's my view, not anti-democratic, but democracy for the interests of Chinese not "mankind". (I'm not Bono.)

[Ordie]

In NZ, Maori's not used in university instructions except for Maori language, just like in Xinjiang and Tibet because you can't get a bloody job speaking aborigine language. And there's no Maori newspaper and a few Maori books and a few hours of Maori tele. Pretty much the same as what it's like in Xinjiang and Tibet.

And Maori, in general, do tend to have more social and economical reasons (high crime rates, and economy difficulties and lack of education) due to various reasons (as an outsider, i'd rather let those to themselves, i'm not keen to poke their faces with their shortcomings.)

They do have a rather radical Maori Party which is not liked by many, such as Europeans, and as far as the Asian communities, we generally despise that creepy party advocating free and no-examination policy to Maori students and other issues which hurt our interests.

In conclusion, NZ's being uber generous comparing even with the Aussies.

And many Maoris don't like Asians because we are richer and better educated than them. Many of my asian friends including me were yelled at before like "****ing asians".. well, that doesnt make me like them very much. Thus I don't vote for left wing parties who are apologists toward Maoris.

In regards to the Tibetians and Maori's, at least your consistant in your contempt towards historical disadvantaged and victimized people's.

[d'artagnan]

In regards to the Tibetians and Maori's, at least your consistant in your contempt towards historical disadvantaged and victimized people's.

Calling me '****ing asians' won't make me sympathise to what happened to them. Not that Chinese weren't victimised and disadvantaged by even the smallest european countries.

And it's not my fault that Maori language isn't used at university. I'm just saying, those who wants it is technically mistake because no one understand their language and it will be an even larger barrier to better education and job opportunities.

And NZ is generous, comparing with the Aussies, who just apologied, and NZ has this Waitangi Tribunal and Maori seats in the parliament etc which give Maori extra power.

And what should I do about what happened to them?

[Hongjian]

I support democratic governance if China wont fall into chaos. I don't agree with strong cencorship, I totally won't mind if comedians mocking even the popular grandpa Wen. And i prefer to be able to reach bbc.com not via proxy. And i'd see all those corrupt officials get a bullet in the head. Yeah, i do support that, because that will be the interests of Chinese people. And that's what I care, if Chinese interests' is damaged, i'm not happy wit it. Thus, because Tibetan/uighur independent will cripple us, I support any measures to crush them for the sake of Chinese people. If shlt happening around the world which doesnt involve with Chinese, i wouldn't even care... (like Sudan, I don't even care to the slightest.)

That's my view, not anti-democratic, but democracy for the interests of Chinese not "mankind". (I'm not Bono.)


I like how you think.

It's called - Pragmatism - something the Chinese are very very good at. Due to historic reasons.

One my favorite quote is from Cao Cao Mengde from "the Romance of the three Kingdoms":

"Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me." (寧教我負天下人，休教天下人負我)

It perfectly describes the mindset of any normal-thinking Chinese who live through a violent history full of 'kill or be killed', foreign invasions, despotism, injustice, famines and massacres. There is no room for naiivety for us Chinese - Moral is a luxury we cannot afford.

or like the great Helmut Schmidt (German ex-Chancellor) used to say:

"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen" - "Those who have visions should visit the doctor"

No fluffy Dreams of making the world a better place - only cold, hard Reality.

[LineDoggie]

Not for oil/geopolitical interests but for the common good of humanity? Plz, these kind of sweet as talk has been around long enuf to ppl to realise that's all garbage. One wont do anything for no obvious real interests in international politics which makes it so cynical.
So, in other words you dont have a Reliable source to back your assertation that Iraq was about oil. Just again more pablum

[d'artagnan]

I like how you think.

It's called - Pragmatism - something the Chinese are very very good at. Due to historic reasons.

One my favorite quote is from Cao Cao Mengde from "the Romance of the three Kingdoms":

"Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me." (寧教我負天下人，休教天下人負我)

It perfectly describes the mindset of any normal-thinking Chinese who live through a violent history full of 'kill or be killed', foreign invasions, despotism, injustice, famines and massacres. There is no room for naiivety for us Chinese - Moral is a luxury we cannot afford.

or like the great Helmut Schmidt (German ex-Chancellor) used to say:

"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen" - "Those who have visions should visit the doctor"

No fluffy Dreams of making the world a better place - only cold, hard Reality.

haha, Cao Cao's the Man.

http://blog.goufang.com/attachments/2008/07/5637_200807130149474GkgN.jpg

[LineDoggie]

. Not that Chinese weren't victimised and disadvantaged by even the smallest european countries.


Really? And Luxemburg/the Netherlands/Sweden/Finland/Norway/Belgium/Italy/Spain/Greece/Ireland/Monaco/ etc. victimised chinese how exactly?:roll:

[Hongjian]

haha, Cao Cao's the Man.

http://blog.goufang.com/attachments/2008/07/5637_200807130149474GkgN.jpg

Best performing actor in the whole f*cking movie imo. One could feel his sober and pragmatic mindset while looking at this picture - kinda feels like a bit Deng Xiaoping only without his 'shortness': love your people, but if necessary, never hestiate to send them to their certain deaths for the cause of unite all under heaven. Seen on the battlefields of Red Cliffs and on Tienanmen Square 2000 years later.

too bad he couldnt finish off all his enemies and unite China - instead he was declared a villain and that stinking populist Liu Bei who achieved nothing beside entrenching the hostilities between Chinese and prolonging the suffering of the people got all the love.


again.

Politics is a battlefield. There are no room for dreams and ethics - and never was it clearer than in this case.

When I look at the premature reactions of our politicians before the elections here in Germany, I could just vomit. Thats not how adults should behave! The worst thing is, that people here believe that this is REAL POLITICS what is displayed here, and not just Kindergarten...

[d'artagnan]

Really? And Luxemburg/the Netherlands/Sweden/Finland/Norway/Belgium/Italy/Spain/Greece/Ireland/Monaco/ etc. victimised chinese how exactly?:roll:

Yeah, backward Portugal had Macau for ages, and european settling countries like NZ had all those anti chinese laws etc.

About oil in Iraq, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

If you don't think it's for oil? What is it?

[Ordie]

Politics is a battlefield. There are no room for dreams and ethics - and never was it clearer than in this case.

You guys would rationalize anything.

[LineDoggie]

Yeah, backward Portugal had Macau for ages, and european settling countries like NZ had all those anti chinese laws etc.

About oil in Iraq, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

If you don't think it's for oil? What is it?
hahaha, thats your proof? what would the BBC say about the Dalai Lama? will you accept that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7948547.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1347735.stm

or will you decry it?

[Hongjian]

You guys would rationalize anything.

Of course. Everything is ratio. Every human action has a purpose - and even if it's only to pleasure oneself. One cannot tell me otherwise and say that everything's made of love and flowers and that true althruism exists.

Chinese pragmatism isnt something that we came up from ourselfes - we Chinese are hardcore conservatives after all.
If the Europeans back then in the 19th century decided to leave us alone and didnt awake us from our slumber through invasions, wars and colonialism (i.e. smashed the reality with brute force against our faces), we would still be sleeping and dreaming retarded, idealistic and delusional dreams about us being the center of the world and the only civilisation among babarians etc. - ie. just like the self-declared "free and civilized western world" is doing now.
Instead we learned from our biggest mistake: Our naiive idea that the world is nice and made of virtuous people.

[Hongjian]

Yeah, backward Portugal had Macau for ages, and european settling countries like NZ had all those anti chinese laws etc.

About oil in Iraq, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

If you don't think it's for oil? What is it?

:-*$

Sorry to fall you in the back, broseph. But I also find it unlikely that the US has waged the war in Iraq just for the oil. It just would not be pragmatically explainable.
It's far more cheaper to invest into the iraqi oil-industry and buy it from them, or even own their companies through political/diplomatical bargains. After all the infrastructure existed and was working just fine when Saddam was in power AND (not to forget that!) he was a fanatical enemy of Americas number two bogeyman: Iran.
Rebuilding the infrastructure, horrendous cost of the military and the occupation, weakening the US economy, affront against the whole wealthy islamic world (sunni ARE VERY wealthy) and lot more.
So with these, the political and economical advantages and gains for the US to NOT wage a war should be clear.
Also, the US has made very good expieriences in past and present, handling with tyrannical islamist dictatorships who supply them with cheap oil.

And even if they did it for oil-reasons, it's nothing wrong about it. Every country will let other bleed for their own profit - this is just the rule of international politics since Niccolo Machiavelli.

On the other hand, the delusional claim of some of these 'true believers' here, that the US is freeing the sh*t out of the Iraq because they want to bless them with the awesomeness of democracy and freedums, is also not really convincing - deep inside all of you, you know why...

So everything that's left is simply geo-politics or just plain stupidity.

[cn_habs]

Linedoggie (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=54039), where are you now?

Million Dollar Question just for you, how did the Bush family get so wealthy prior to GWB's election?

[Ordie]

Of course. Everything is ratio. Every human action has a purpose - and even if it's only to pleasure oneself.

That beacuse the rule of law does not exist in China to protect the people. That's why situational ethics often leads to widespead corruption.


If the Europeans back then in the 19th century decided to leave us alone and didnt awake us from our slumber through invasions, wars and colonialism (i.e. smashed the reality with brute force against our faces), we would still be sleeping and dreaming retarded, idealistic and delusional dreams about us being the center of the world and the only civilisation among babarians etc.

Ever since the 15th century, China stopped innovating, inventing and adapting.


ie. just like the self-declared "free and civilized western world" is doing now.


No count on it.
As long as we have the freedom to fail, we will keep innovating, adapt and improve.
Not unlike other countries that just copy and paste with no imagination.

[cn_habs]

That beacuse the rule of law does not exist in China to protect the people. That's why situational ethics often leads to widespead corruption.


woot

Very often, laws are not reinforced to the letter but to say that the rule of law does not exist is very misleading indeed. The country would be chaotic if that was the case, don't you think?

Keep generalizing ...

[Ordie]

woot

Very often, laws are not reinforced to the letter but to say that the rule of law does not exist is very misleading indeed. The country would be chaotic if that was the case, don't you think?

Keep generalizing ...

China has the rule of policies not laws.

A policy is arbitrality dictated from above, and the bureaucracies interpets and implements it as they see fit.

The legal system in China is not independent and is considered as part of the bureaucracy where judges are members of the Communist Party.

Therefore Judges in China cannot interpret the laws.

[TheMiddlePath]

And the continuing saga of Dalai Lama visit.

Aborigines protesting in front of Dalai Lama hotel.

http://www.youtube.com/v/2N6FXiwo8yo

[Shuimo]

A nice snapshot of DL in Taiwan!
He is really in his advanced years, isn't he?


http://img.ifeng.com/res/200909/0901_762712.jpg

[Hongjian]

That beacuse the rule of law does not exist in China to protect the people. That's why situational ethics often leads to widespead corruption.



Ever since the 15th century, China stopped innovating, inventing and adapting.



No count on it.
As long as we have the freedom to fail, we will keep innovating, adapt and improve.
Not unlike other countries that just copy and paste with no imagination.


China has the rule of law. The law of the Nature - Survival of the fittest. Have you been on a Gaokao-preparation class? You will understand what I mean.
But you are right. Back then in the good old Qin-Dynasty we had a rule of state-law. Everyone gets tortured and executed along with their families if one fail to meet the expectations of the Emperor or committed a petty crime. No matter if you are a peasant, a urban citizen, a noble or a official.
This is still the dream of all Chinese people up until today - a legalist state with unbendable laws for everyone.
There is a very famous Beijing-Opera about a famous Judge of the Tang-Dynasty, who not only solved crimes Holmes-style, but is so lawful, that he even executed the second wife of the Emperor for mistreating a lowly maidservant, that resulted in her death.
He is remaining THE ideal for the absolute rule of law in China till now.


And no. What the west is doing now, is not to adapt. It is to cry and to wish back the good ol' times when the west was the center of the world - like we did back then when reality falcon-punched us in our face.
In the meantime we kept adapting and learning how to pay you back for your gratitute to awake us from the slumber.

[Hongjian]

China has the rule of policies not laws.

A policy is arbitrality dictated from above, and the bureaucracies interpets and implements it as they see fit.

The legal system in China is not independent and is considered as part of the bureaucracy where judges are members of the Communist Party.

Therefore Judges in China cannot interpret the laws.

And exactly this lack of 'rule of law' has made us successful on the battlefields of international relation, trade and politics: We do not expect fairness because we didnt expierienced it in our own life - so we are naturally prepared for the merciless world out there.

Exactly this means to 'adapt'. Having a perfect world around you that gives you the security of fair laws and the luxury of ethics, only blunts up your wits. Mankind wouldnt evolve if we hadn't wars and catastrophes, ie. times where your pretty little world of self-deluded security and fairness is getting in piss, blood and guts.

So getting back to topic: Analysing the popularity of the Dalai lama one comes into the conclusion that he is a very effective tool in the world of politics. Bravo, Captain obvious. next?

[Shuimo]

Dalailama causing stir in Taiwan

http://img.ifeng.com/res/200909/0901_763395.jpg

http://img.ifeng.com/res/200909/0901_763191.jpg

http://img.ifeng.com/res/200909/0901_763196.jpg

http://img.ifeng.com/hres/200909/01/13/ecbbd91bd39178d9982e032acd10dbf6.jpg

The characters on the poster of this protestant say:

Dalailama denying orthodox teachings of Buddism wud be sent to hell upon his death!

[Insane Tadpole]

And exactly this lack of 'rule of law' has made us successful on the battlefields of international relation, trade and politics: We do not expect fairness because we didnt expierienced it in our own life - so we are naturally prepared for the merciless world out there.

Exactly this means to 'adapt'. Having a perfect world around you that gives you the security of fair laws and the luxury of ethics, only blunts up your wits. Mankind wouldnt evolve if we hadn't wars and catastrophes, ie. times where your pretty little world of self-deluded security and fairness is getting in piss, blood and guts.

So getting back to topic: Analysing the popularity of the Dalai lama one comes into the conclusion that he is a very effective tool in the world of politics. Bravo, Captain obvious. next?
Lol wut? :)

[hulaku]

The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has held a prayer ceremony in southern Taiwan in memory of the victims of last month's typhoon.

It was the Dalai Lama's first major public appearance since he arrived on the island on Sunday.

He has described his trip as non-political, but China has condemned it.

It has reportedly postponed several delegations to Taiwan, at a time when relations between Beijing and Taipei have otherwise been improving.

China considers the Dalai Lama a dangerous separatist who is seeking Tibetan independence, and often criticises his official foreign visits.

The trip to Taiwan is especially sensitive given that Beijing considers Taiwan - along with Tibet - as part of Chinese territory.

Remembering the dead

About 20,000 people assembled in the arena in the southern city of Kaohsiung on Tuesday to see the Dalai Lama.

Many of the people there were Tibetan Buddhists from all over Taiwan, but a lot were also typhoon victims, according to the BBC's correspondent in the country, Cindy Sui.

The 74-year-old monk said he shared the sorrow of those who lost their loved ones during Typhoon Morakot, which hit Taiwan on 7 August and left more than 600 people dead or missing.

The people prayed and chanted with the Dalai Lama in unison. At one point he even cracked a joke, saying: "I'm chanting in Tibetan and you'll be chanting in Mandarin, but it's going to sound like chaos."

According to our correspondent, nobody in the Kaohsiung arena was thinking about politics - they were simply very eager to get the spiritual message the Dalai Lama wanted to give them.

But the trip is undoubtedly causing strain on Beijing-Taipei relations.

On Sunday a statement from China's Taiwan Affairs Office said the Dalai Lama's visit was "bound to have a negative influence on the relations between the mainland and Taiwan".

Chen Shu-rong, spokeswoman for Taiwan's ruling Kuomintang (KMT) party, told reporters that a senior Communist Party official had already cancelled a visit to Taipei, and a Chinese delegation would not take part in Saturday's opening of the Deaf Olympics.

Ms Chen told the Associated Press that while she could not confirm that that these actions were taken directly because of the Dalai Lama's visit, "we do not exclude the possibility".

Little choice

Apart from the Dalai Lama's visit, Taiwan's KMT Party has actually been strengthening its ties with China in recent months.

The Chinese government considers President Ma Ying-jeou's administration far easier to deal with than the island's previous pro-independence leadership.

But according to our correspondent, Mr Ma had little choice when the opposition party requested an invitation to the Dalai Lama to pray for typhoon victims.

His government had been accused of offering a slow and inefficient response to the typhoon, and our correspondent says he could not afford to hurt his and his party's image any further.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8231009.stm

[Ordie]

And exactly this lack of 'rule of law' has made us successful on the battlefields of international relation, trade and politics: We do not expect fairness because we didnt expierienced it in our own life - so we are naturally prepared for the merciless world out there.

Apart from Saudi Arabia, China is the odd person out in the G20 Community of Nations that is not a democracy. Each of these countries have the legitimacy of thier electorate and are accountable for thier actions.

The rule of law in democrartic societies is an insurance policy that no one, regardless of office, wealth, and ethnicity is above is above the law.

So if China wants to be a responsible stakeholder in the global economy, it must follow the norms of the rule of law at home and abroad.

[Hongjian]

Apart from Saudi Arabia, China is the odd person out in the G20 Community of Nations that is not a democracy. Each of these countries have the legitimacy of thier electorate and are accountable for thier actions.

The rule of law in democrartic societies is an insurance policy that no one, regardless of office, wealth, and ethnicity is above is above the law.

So if China wants to be a responsible stakeholder in the global economy, it must follow the norms of the rule of law at home and abroad.


When will the West finally wake up from their delusions and realize that China does NOT want to be a 'responsible stakeholder' and is not interested in playing according to your one-sided, postulated 'rules, norms and laws'?

China's only aim is to grow economically, militarily, diplomatically and to become an influencial power in the world which even the mighty United States have to overthink their geopolitical ambitions.

The method is machiavellian pragmatism, the motto is 'all's fair in love and war' and they give a flying f*ck about who will suffer on the way to achieve their ambitions.
Ironically they learned it from the western nations back then who 'misused' their power to enslave the now-called third world and became prosperous by it, so that they are able to enjoy the luxury of ethics and law, whereas China used their powerful navy in the Ming-Dynasty only to go on a expensive PR-tour and to burn it after that.

Now it's our turn to enslave the world for the profit. Dont try to hinder China with hypocritical ethics you invented after you have eaten youselfs full from the weak and the poor.
(nothing wrong about it, though. It's an awesome strategy and we would like to bow down to you respectfully)

[Elbs]

Now it's our turn to enslave the world for the profit.

Ha Ha Ha.

Ha. That'll go down well with your neighbors.

[Hongjian]

Ha Ha Ha.

Ha. That'll go down well with your neighbors.

Nations that get invaded and enslaved because they're too weak to defend themselves are failures who brought it upon themselves. And I say it with full consequences, since China was such a Nation.

There's this quote from Li Hongzhang, the prime minister of the late Qing-Dynasty after the Opium-War and during the Treaty of Shimonseki:

"Weak countries cannot afford diplomacy"

Or better: If you're weak, you cannot count on papers, treaties and big words of diplomacy. Even the whole point of negotiation is nil, if you are powerless - you will be raped over and over by the strong if you do not possess hard power to back up the 'rule of law' from your side, ie. to prevent the victor to just take what he wants from you, without discussion.
Too bad it took the death of an entire Dynasty (EDIT: actually two Dynasties - the KMT too) and countless Chinese people to realize this golden rule of survival.

But now China has woken up. What we now know is that no norms, no laws and no treaties would protect us from the cruelty of international politics, only nukes, aircraft-carriers, warships, planes, tanks and the ruthless pursuit for domination and power with all means possible can reliabily protect you from all the Nanjings happening to you again.

Historical weaklings like Poland who counted on treaties and alliances with great powers to protect themselves (and failed) are formally invited to follow this rule.

[Ordie]

Or better: If you're weak, you cannot count on papers, treaties and big words of diplomacy. Even the whole point of negotiation is nil, if you are powerless - you will be raped over and over by the strong if you do not possess hard power to back up the 'rule of law' from your side, ie. to prevent the victor to just take what he wants from you, without discussion.

The threat to China is not external but internal.

A fact that China is not a democracy makes it very vulnerable from within.

An independent judiciary under the rule of law, as in the case with Hong Kong, will make China stronger, not weaker. The rule of law will provide everyone in China equal protection and due process.

Democratic societies normally do not engage in war with other democratic societies. The fact that China is not a democratic nation is a threat to itself.

[cn_habs]

The threat to China is not external but internal.

A fact that China is not a democracy makes it very vulnerable from within.

An independent judiciary under the rule of law, as in the case with Hong Kong, will make China stronger, not weaker. The rule of law will provide everyone in China equal protection and due process.

Democratic societies normally do not engage in war with other democratic societies. The fact that China is not a democratic nation is a threat to itself.

That is so laughable..

If you are not pro-Western or American, it matters that you are not a so called democracy and should be overthrown if possible via assinations & coup d'etat. Do you even want examples?

Everything changes if you are pro-American and you don't have to worry about so many ethics and questionable manners aka Saudi Arabia. Just look at China throughout the 20th century. The American Government sponsored ads stating that Tibet is part of China when the Guomindang was in power...

Like everywhere else, your policitians are just a bunch of liars that mispend you middle-class workers money and only recognize the dollar sign over everything else if they are pressured hard enough...

It's not like things have not improved in China. It's just going to take time...

[Ordie]

Democratic values are not pro-American, Pro-western or Pro Chinese. Its universal.

Representative Democracy backed up with the rule of law, provides for civil society, stability and prosperity. It also allows for political and situational evolution through the electorial process.

You can say, we in the United States undergo a revolution every 2-4 years. Instead of bullets, we use the ballots.

Unlike your country, we have the right to hire and fire elected representatives through the ballot boxes.

I've been to China on many occasions as recently as last April. Its a country full of anxious people for the right and wrong reasons. Based on my observations, China is only as strong as its weakest link. That weakest link (farmers, minorioties, urban poor) is falling through the cracks and getting very fustrated.

The legitimacy of the Communist Party is being questioned. Local CCP cadres are only rewarded for meeting social and economic quotas, not by how well they manage challenges and crisis. As a result corruption, graft and fear runs rampant in rural and urban areas of China. So much so thousands of petitioners are going to Beijing asking for help and intervention. Only to be harrased by the local police or worst yet thugs hired by the local cardres.

Building dams, roads, factories, skyscrapers are meaningless without a strong independent judiciary to keep government honest, fair and transparent. Only then will the Chinese people feel more confident and less anxious.

[Hongjian]

The threat to China is not external but internal.

A fact that China is not a democracy makes it very vulnerable from within.

An independent judiciary under the rule of law, as in the case with Hong Kong, will make China stronger, not weaker. The rule of law will provide everyone in China equal protection and due process.

Democratic societies normally do not engage in war with other democratic societies. The fact that China is not a democratic nation is a threat to itself.

So whats new? If angry petitioneers are getting fed up with the CCP and revolt, then they simply will get rolled over by tanks and stabbed with bayonets again. If you have personal contact to Armed Police members, you will realize that the PAP is VERY loyal and wont hestiate to kill a bunch of us for the sake of stability and power for the CCP. This is like every Chinese Dynasty in history behaved and should behave.
And if the CCP fails to suppress the people, then they will lose their mandate of heaven and a new dictatorship will rise from their ashes.

Democracy is a futile hope for China - Changes will always come from within, like having a rightous and virtuous Emperor who tortures and executes all corrupt official along with their families. <--- This would be the only thing close to 'rule of law' we can hope for.

Other than that, we will continue to live in our darwinist world without social equality, judicative security and political participation.


Democratic societies normally do not engage in war with other democratic societies.Should this be a threat? If yes, you've proven yourself that a external threat against China DO exist.
To not get free'd the sh*t out of us and to fall victim to military 'regime-change attempts' by althruistic human-rights loving democracies, we will continue to expand our national interests in the western pacific and build up a strong military ourselfs, to deter said democratic societies to engage in a war against a non-democratic society.

[Hongjian]

Democratic values are not pro-American, Pro-western or Pro Chinese. Its universal.


1. "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments." Yummy. Delicious monotheistic Christian traditions sure influenced the way of western thinking and cultural behavior.
Almost every western-made ideology or religion, no matter if it's christianity, communism, capitalism or democracy has this delicious claim of universality and absolutism in them.
If something's not working the way you think, then it's obviously WRONG and will fail or burst like a bubble, because the laws and principles of your ideology demanded it so, since it's supposed to be universally valid. no matter where and when, how and who.
There can never be two right systems existing beside each other! Only one can be right. The other one must be wrong and shall fail.

In Asia, we have polytheistic influences.
Gods actually can exist before and behind, left and right to each other - so do our ideologies. Capitalism and Communism in symbiotic relationship, personal freedom and economic possibilities combined with batsh*t insane political repressions, darwinist bloodthirstiness with heartwarming solidarity. Paradoxies everywhere - living in tensionous coexistence with each other.
Two completely different truths can be true on the same time, even if they are conflicting with each other or even real paradoxes.
Everything is always shifting and flowing like water - if one way of doing things wont work, the water will search for an different route. Always searching for the most pragmatic way, unshackled by commandments, universal truth and unbendable laws. Found a way to flow? Then flow.

And living this way, makes the life in the greatest dictatorian empire of all times more convenient, because since we do not posses the rule of law, we do posses to power of flowing water - things that the poor guys at Rio-Tinto and all westerners in general do not possess.

[Ordie]

we will continue to expand our national interests in the western pacific and build up a strong military ourselfs, to deter said democratic societies to engage in a war against a non-democratic society.

The Japanese tried and failed.
Until China is able to start exporting its values, it won't be able to become a great power.

[Ordie]

And living this way, makes the life in the greatest dictatorian empire of all times more convenient, because since we do not posses the rule of law, we do posses to power of flowing water - things that the poor guys at Rio-Tinto and all westerners in general do not possess.

In a nutshell you interpret and change the laws as you see fit.

Not a good way to build relationships and business.

Especially if joint venture transactions and memos with Chinese state owned can be interpeted 'state secrets'.

The Rio Tinto case is a warning to all companies not to engage with Chinese State Owned businesses.

[Hongjian]

The Japanese tried and failed.
Until China is able to start exporting its values, it won't be able to become a great power.

the japanese are actually helping us right now in our endeavor, after their landslide election. democracy sure is useful at times.

and why should we start to export our values? what would we win by it, beside the masturbational fantasy that we have successfully converted foolish people who are now following our values?

like old Mao said in his late years: "In the lifetime of a man, you will only be able to fully convince one single human of your idea - and believe me, its not worth it."

On top of that, nobody official said that China will go on onto a world domination-tour. It was just my idea of how China should behave.

[Ordie]

the japanese are actually helping us right now in our endeavor, after their landslide election. democracy sure is useful at times.

When was the last time you voted for your leaders?

[Hongjian]

In a nutshell you interpret and change the laws as you see fit.

Not a good way to build relationships and business.

Especially if joint venture transactions and memos with Chinese state owned can be interpeted 'state secrets'.

The Rio Tinto case is a warning to all companies not to engage with Chinese State Owned businesses.

They were doing business with a machiavellian dictatorship at their own risk.

The times are over, when China has to solely live on the mercy of foreign companies and has to do everything to hold them.
This was the greatest economical-diplomatical achievement of the CCP to create bonds of dependency to everyone who are engaged in any sort of business and trade with China. US treasuries and dollars are only one pearl on the string.
Nobody can now say, that they will ignore China from now on. Political or economical kowtows after formal prostests are common - like seen in Australia now.

[Ordie]

Nobody can now say, that they will ignore China from now on. Political or economical kowtows after formal prostests are common - like seen in Australia now.

With a court of judges who are members of the Chinese Communist Party?

[Hongjian]

When was the last time you voted for your leaders?

Well, I was born in China but raised in Germany and lived there for 22 years. I have voted many times for the conservative CDU and some time for the social-democratic SPD because of my respect for Helmut Schmidt and his sober pragmatism, which is rare in a very ethical moralist society.
I now went back to China (4 years by now, living in the poorest province even after Tibet. Yay! woot) and see that the Chinese top-leaders are all a bit like a more ruthless and ambitious version of Helmut Schmidt: I see my interests represented by them.
And if i ever dares to speak up against them, I have first to fear the ruinous power of 'no-one-gives-a-f*ck', followed by 'no-body-gives-a-damn' and then finally, like as a Boss-fight, the dreadful 'go-back-to-bed' by my local authorities.

[hskywalker]

The Rio Tinto case is a warning to all companies not to engage with Chinese State Owned businesses.
I think the rio tinto case is justified. If you really need one example, I can offer you a fresh one.:)
http://www.*******.com/article/fundsFundsNews/idUSPEK36146520090831


BEIJING, Aug 31 (*******) - A weekend report that Chinese state-owned companies will be allowed to default on commodity derivative contracts provoked anger and dismay among investment banks on Monday as they feared a damaging precedent.
China's SOE regulator, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC), has told six foreign banks that SOEs reserved the right to default on contracts, Caijing magazine quoted an unnamed industry source as saying in an article published on Saturday. [ID:nLT454907]
A SASAC media official said he was waiting for the "relevant department's" official comment before he can clarify to media.
The report, the hot topic among bankers from Shanghai to Singapore on Monday, deals another blow to investment banks hoping to sell more derivatives hedges in China, the world's fastest-expanding major economy and top commodities consumer.
"If we were among the banks receiving that letter, we would be very angry. But now the key is to find out more details on the letter: In whose name the letter was issued, government or corporate? And under what reasons for possible defaults?" said a Singapore-based marketing executive with a foreign bank.
"If it's in the name of the government, the impact will be very negative," said the executive, who did not want to the named due to the sensitive nature of the matter.
Commodities derivative marketing officials at JPMorgan Chase (JPM.N (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=JPM.N )) and Morgan Stanley (MS.N (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=MS.N )) declined to comment.
But at least Air China (601111.SS (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=601111.SS ))(0753.HK (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=0753.HK )), China Eastern (600115.SS (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=600115.SS )) and shipping giant COSCO (1919.HK (http://militaryphotos.net/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=1919.HK )) -- among the Chinese SOEs mired in huge derivatives losses since late last year -- had issued letters to banks, said the Singapore-based bank source, who said he had heard of the letters and that they were all in the same format.
"It's a handful of companies who are being encouraged by regulators to re-negotiate. It's outrageous, but it's China so everyone is treading very carefully," said a second banking source.
Beijing-based derivatives lawyers said the so-called "legal letter" has no legal standing -- SASAC as a shareholder of SOEs has no business relationship with international banks.
No bank names were reported in the Caijing report. The SASAC media officer also declined to specify any.
SASAC took over the job of overseeing SOEs' derivatives trading from the securities regulator in February after several Chinese firms reported huge losses from derivatives.

[Ordie]

And if i ever dares to speak up against them, I have first to fear the ruinous power of 'no-one-gives-a-f*ck', followed by 'no-body-gives-a-damn' and the finally, like as Boss-fight, the dreadful 'go-back-to-bed' by my local authorities

A free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.
-Adlai Stevenson 1952

[Ordie]

State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC),

If this regulatory commission is state owned, isn't there a conflict of interest in regards with regulating state owned businesses vs. the private sector?

[Hongjian]

I think the rio tinto case is justified. If you really need one example, I can offer you a fresh one.:)
http://www.*******.com/article/fundsFundsNews/idUSPEK36146520090831

aww. justified or not. China will do whatever the f*ck they see fit. And there's nothing wrong about it.

[ex Strathcona]

aww. justified or not. China will do whatever the f*ck they see fit. And there's nothing wrong about it.

not if we all stop buying their crappy products

[Hongjian]

A free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.
-Adlai Stevenson 1952


China is not a free society. period.

But being unpopular in China is pretty much the hardest thing to do. you have to be a completely unsociable master of neet to not get into a circle of useful guanxi that spares you the need of being unpopular at times.

the police here is mostly just 'cool story bro' if you encounter them with your problems. cant be bothered with anything else than smoking, reading tabloids watching ripped-off DVD's and beating up poor hobo's with long unwieldy sticks they couldnt even hold firm themselves.

so China is like the real face of the internet. me-to-ism at its finest.

[Ordie]

aww. justified or not. China will do whatever the f*ck they see fit. And there's nothing wrong about it.

China is not an island to itself.

[Hongjian]

not if we all stop buying their crappy products

sure that some crappy products are not included in your keyboard?

[Hongjian]

China is not an island to itself.


learned this the hard tour in 1848.

[ex Strathcona]

sure that some crappy products are not included in your keyboard?

yes it was made in china. i think i may have gotten lead poisoning from it.


*holly crap i just checked.. it was made there :(

[Ordie]

the police here is mostly just 'cool story bro' if you encounter them with your problems. cant be bothered with anything else than smoking, reading tabloids watching ripped-off DVD's and beating up poor hobo's with long unwieldy sticks they couldnt even hold firm themselves..

Chinese cops fearful and paranoid.

There were two cases where I was followed by plainclothes cops in Beijing.

I did not care since I had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. I was shocked they harassed petitioners but did nothing about street prostitutes at Wangfujing.

[hskywalker]

aww. justified or not. China will do whatever the f*ck they see fit. And there's nothing wrong about it.
If you work for the government, or work for state enterprise, or work for large foreign international corporations, you won't feel the importance of law. Because such entities oftern benefits from the government's decisions.

Some other people may don't like "government do whatever they want".

Disclosure: I don't practice falungong, and I don't work for cia.

[Hongjian]

Chinese cops fearful and paranoid.

There were two cases where I was followed by plainclothes cops in Beijing.

I did not care since I had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. I was shocked they harassed petitioners but did nothing about street prostitutes at Wangfujing.

first rule of china: if you are dissent, you can go tell it to your mom or to random guys on the street. never try to make a fuss over it that attracts large crowds - this will be considered as 'mass-incident' and will responded accordingly.

second rule of china: get your guanxi's right. even the prostitutes have them. try to be friend of a influencial person or be one yourself by learning hard for the Gaokao and become a official after graduation from Xinhua, Beida, Fudan etc. Ah, never forget to join the CCP, its a Party btw.
I you have become a influencial official with good guanxi, you can even spit on the face of grandpa Wen - well people will get very angry about it, but...

[Hongjian]

If you work for the government, or work for state enterprise, or work for large foreign international corporations, you won't feel the importance of law. Because such entities oftern benefits from the government's decisions.

Some other people may don't like "government do whatever they want".

Disclosure: I don't practice falungong, and I don't work for cia.


right. no offence intended.

Chinese companies and state-fonds will continue to look for ways to achieve their goals in flowing water style.


yes it was made in china. i think i may have gotten lead poisoning from it.


*holly crap i just checked.. it was made there :-(

Amen. We are all victims of the Chinese Pearl-string strategy.
Even my all-Aryan keyboard with the überlegenden Ü Ö Ä and ß, was actually assembled in the Machiavellian Republic of China. :(

[Solvent]

I you have become a influencial official with good guanxi, you can even spit on the face of grandpa Wen - well people will get very angry about it, but...

I doubt about it

[Ordie]

first rule of china: if you are dissent, you can go tell it to your mom or to random guys on the street. never try to make a fuss over it that attracts large crowds - this will be considered as 'mass-incident' and will responded accordingly.

second rule of china: get your guanxi's right. even the prostitutes have them. try to be friend of a influencial person or be one yourself by learning hard for the Gaokao and become a official after graduation from Xinhua, Beida, Fudan etc. Ah, never forget to join the CCP, its a Party btw.
I you have become a influencial official with good guanxi, you can even spit on the face of grandpa Wen - well people will get very angry about it, but...

So one could never be free of social obligations.

[Hongjian]

I doubt about it

sorry, that was a failed pun of mine, regarding that case, were Hu defended his broseph Wen, when he was being strongly critizised (more being yelled at) by a politbüro official who is a member of the adversarial Shanghai-Clique (Elitist/Liberal/Right-Fraction around Jiang Zeming, originally founded by Deng Xiaoping - called 'the Pragmatist-Fraction' at that time).

This was IIRC the last public evidence of that gigantic power struggle between the remants of the Shanghai-Clique who are losing power against the Hu-and Wen-led Beijing-Clique (or called Populists/Left-Fraction, came out from the remants of the Ideologists-Fraction led by Mao's lunatic wive).

[Solvent]

Power struggles are no news in China's politics.

[Ordie]

Power struggles are no news in China's politics.

Why not be open and create political parties.

[Hongjian]

Power struggles are no news in China's politics.

right. power struggles are a dictatorship's form of election.
those who survived it, those who proved their potency and those who slaughtered their enemies will become the new emperors of China. this form of election guarantees quality and skill of the future leader, because only the strongest and wittiest will prevail against thousands of merciless enemies with the same ambitions.

but of course these periodical acts of political selection happens behind closed doors - thats why they are f*cking thrilling events no China-observer should miss.

Lets see how the 5th generation of leaders will do their job and what strategies they will employ. since they will be from the Right-Wing Fraction of the Shanghai-Clique we can expect more economic freedom but also even more social-problems in the future. But I think the influence of the Beijing-Fraction wont be lost, so that there will be enough socialist opposition in the politburo.

Note: This was actually a trade between the now-ruling Beijing-Fraction and Jiang Zeming himself: He gave up being the Chairmen and head of the mighty CMC without much bloodshed to Hu and Wen, but traded with his men being the successors of the 4th generation.

[Ordie]

But if there were free elections tommorrow, how many of these cadres would get elected?

[Hongjian]

But if there were free elections tommorrow, how many of these cadres would get elected?

Only the cadres who could buy...errr win their votes with free rice tickets and lots of big words 'n slogans stolen from broseph Obama.

Third world democracy F+CK YEAH!!!

[TheMiddlePath]

Apart from Saudi Arabia, China is the odd person out in the G20 Community of Nations that is not a democracy. Each of these countries have the legitimacy of thier electorate and are accountable for thier actions.

The rule of law in democrartic societies is an insurance policy that no one, regardless of office, wealth, and ethnicity is above is above the law.

So if China wants to be a responsible stakeholder in the global economy, it must follow the norms of the rule of law at home and abroad.


An ancient Chinese proverb.
An ordinary man follows the law. A wiseman follow what is right,

Sometimes laws are created to protect certain group of people. The rich and the elite. Example your congressman creates laws so they can stay in power until they die. John Mccain is almost 80 years old and still cling to power using his established campign funds.
There are so many trick you can play with election rules to deter certain groups of voters.
Majority of the economic and trade rules benifits the rich countries and ensure poor country stay poor. If poor counties finally learn how to play by the rules, the rich counties will change the rules.


Another ancient Chinese proverb.
Until a man is properly clothed and fed, he will not know what is shame and what is honor.

A poor man trying to survive and feed his family will do what it takes to survive. Following laws that benefit the rich will be last thing in his mind.

Just a thing about laws to think about.

[Ordie]

"Don't stay on the middle path. Or else you get crushed by a passing truck."

-Ordie

[ren0312]

"Don't stay on the middle path. Or else you get crushed by a passing truck."

-Ordie

Germans actually took your advice in 1933.p-)

[Ordie]

Sometimes laws are created to protect certain group of people.


There are so many trick you can play with election rules to deter certain groups of voters.

This is why you need a strong independent judiciary and oversight to interpet and enforce the laws.


Example your congressman creates laws so they can stay in power until they die. John Mccain is almost 80 years old and still cling to power using his established campign funds.

John McCain is in office because his consitituency (the state of Arizona) voted for him. It's up to the voters to hire, fire and re-hire their Senator.

[Steak-Sauce]

Although this thread became really funny (Chinese world domination through carriers, nukes, and the "fvck you"-attitude), any news about the Lama's visit? Are some pics of him available?

[Shuimo]

Although this thread became really funny (Chinese world domination through carriers, nukes, and the "fvck you"-attitude), any news about the Lama's visit? Are some pics of him available?
DL enjoying his dinner in Taiwan!

http://img.ifeng.com/hres/200909/01/10/f5f442b784370f9297485ab6d6aedb97.jpg


DL preaching ruvolutionary changes to Tibetan Buddhism?
http://img.ifeng.com/tres/news/tbdalai9203.jpg

[Steak-Sauce]

Thanks for the pics, although I can't see them here on the forum. Had to open them in a new window, but thanks.

[Shuimo]

Thanks for the pics, although I can't see them here on the forum. Had to open them in a new window, but thanks.
But why?
That is odd!
I can see them with half an eye!

[hulaku]

But why?
That is odd!
I can see them with half an eye!

Even I cannot see them

Not even in a separate window.

Why don't you paste the address link?

[d'artagnan]

To summerise his visit:

1. DPP didn't gain massive points since people generally reckon they are using DL to gain political points during this disaster in TW.
2. DL still gained publicity due to this controversial visit.
3. DL didn't say much crap which he doesn't really need to because of 2.
4. People in China hates DL more than ever thus if makes it impossible for him to come back as the public opinion is against him more than ever.
5. Luckily, the local Buddhist, Taoist and Mazu religion groups aren't very happy with DL either since they are the ones who are actually helping the people affected.
6. Forget about it, and screw DL.

[Shuimo]

Even I cannot see them

Not even in a separate window.

Why don't you paste the address link?
Perhaps sth wrong with yr computer system!
Just check out at this webpage by clicking

http://news.ifeng.com/taiwan/special/dalaifangtai/

You wud spot pictures of DL together with many other proesting scene pics!

[Ordie]

To summerise his visit:

1. DPP didn't gain massive points since people generally reckon they are using DL to gain political points during this disaster in TW.
2. DL still gained publicity due to this controversial visit.
3. DL didn't say much crap which he doesn't really need to because of 2.
4. People in China hates DL more than ever thus if makes it impossible for him to come back as the public opinion is against him more than ever.
5. Luckily, the local Buddhist, Taoist and Mazu religion groups aren't very happy with DL either since they are the ones who are actually helping the people affected.
6. Forget about it, and screw DL.

So what's new?

Except that Chinese live in a media hungry environment looking for news to generate viewership and profits.

Since investigative journalism in China is controlled, anything with the Dalai Lama, or Japan in the headlines will arouse an emotional response and sell papers, viewships or internet hits.

For the Dalai Lama, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

[Shuimo]

So what's new?

Except that Chinese live in a media hungry environment looking for news to generate viewership and profits.

Since investigative journalism in China is controlled, anything with the Dalai Lama, or Japan in the headlines will arouse an emotional response and sell papers, viewships or internet hits.

For the Dalai Lama, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

NO, DL is really losing his news appeal among us educated folks of people!
Let me tell you what is HOT news in China these days:
Scandals of corrupt officials, housing prices,public management scandal like food safety and road safety, Internet-revealed and
-magnified misgrievances of the unpriviledged people, fake statistics released by the CPC like the pay increase figure of salaried people, and such like!

[Captain China]

http://t2.baidu.com/it/u=499554103,713361399&fm=6&gp=12.jpg
This is hilarious.:), This taiwan monk is cursing Dalai to go to hell as he and Dalai are not in the same Order

By the way, from what I learned from my Taiwan friends, a lot of locals are Christian

[TheMiddlePath]

http://t2.baidu.com/it/u=499554103,713361399&fm=6&gp=12.jpg
This is hilarious.:), This taiwan monk is cursing Dalai to go to hell as he and Dalai are not in the same Order

By the way, from what I learned from my Taiwan friends, a lot of locals are Christian


Dalai Lama pissed off alot Buddhist monks who were already working very hard to help the victims of the disasters. Dalai Lama visit over shadow everthing they did.

Like this monk here literary condeming Dalai Lama visit.

http://v.ifeng.com/news/taiwan/200908/0081b15d-f8c2-4025-8260-997dcd44e291.shtml

Not to mention the massive security protecting Dalia Lama that would be better used to help in the recovery and reconstruction.