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hist2004
07-07-2004, 04:38 PM
N Korea Military Tactics
In A War With US
A Strategy Of Massive
Retaliations Against US Attacks

By Han Ho Suk
Director Center for Korean Affairs
4-24-3

North Korea has not only the military power but also the political will to wage total war against the United States.

(An English abstract of a paper)

1. North Korea Can Engage the US in Total War

North Korea is one of the few nations that can engage in a total war with the United States. The US war planners recognize this fact. For example, on March 7, 2000, Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, the US commander in Korea at the time, testified at a US congressional hearing that "North Korea is the country most likely to involve the United States in a large-scale war."

North Korea, which can and is willing to face up to the sole military superpower of the world, cannot be called a weak nation. Nevertheless, Western press and analysts distort the truth and depict North Korea as an "impoverished" nation, starving and on the brink of imminent collapse. An impoverished, starving nation cannot face down a military superpower. Today few nations have military assets strong enough to challenge the US military. Russia, though weakened by the collapse of the Soviet Union, has enough assets to face up to the US. China, somewhat weaker than Russia, too, has strong military that can challenge the US. However, both Russia and China lack the political will to face down the US.

In contrast, North Korea has not only the military power but also the political will to wage total war against the United States. North Korea has made it clear that it will strike all US targets with all means, if the US mounted military attacks on North Korea. That North Korea's threat is no bluff can be seen from the aggressive actions taken by North Korea since the Korean War armistice, most recent of which is North Korea's attempt to capture an American spy plane. In the morning of March 1, 2003, an American RC-132S spy plane, Cobra Ball, took off from a US airbase in Okinawa, and cruised along the East coast of North Korea collecting electronic signals. The US intelligence suspected that North Korea was about to test a long-range missile and the plane was there to monitor the suspected missile launch.

When the US plane reached a point about 193 km from the coast of North Korea, two MiG-29 and two MiG-21 fighter planes showed up unexpectedly. The North Korean planes approached within 16 m and signaled the US plane to follow them. The US pilot refused to follow the command and left the scene posthaste. The US plane was tailed by the hostiles for about 22 min but let the US spy plane go. There are two key points to be observed here.

First, the hostile planes waited for the US plane at the Uhrang airbase, located about 200 km from the point of air encounter. They knew that the US plane was coming. The North Korean planes flew 200 km to intercept the US plane. Did the US plane see them coming? If it did, why no evasive action? After intercepting the US plane, the hostile planes dogged it for 22 min. Why no American planes for the rescue? The US crew must have informed the base of the danger they were in, but no action was taken by the base. If Kim Jong Il had given the command, the MiGs would have shot down the US plane and returned to their base before the US could have scrambled war planes.

Second, North Korea intercepted an American spy plane flying 200 km from its coast. According to the international norm, a nation's territorial air space extends 19 km from its coast line. The US is the exception and claims air space of 370 km from its coast line; any foreign airplane violating this extended air space is challenged or shot down by the US military.

2. North Korea's Massive Retaliation Strategy

North Korea's war plan in case of an US attack is total war, not the 'low-intensity limited warfare' or 'regional conflict' talked about among the Western analysts. North Korea will mount a total war if attacked by the US. There are three aspects to this war plan.

First, total war is North Korea's avowed strategy in case of US preemptive attacks. The US war on Iraq shows that the US can and will mount preemptive strikes in clear violation of international laws, and the United Nations is powerless to stop the US. Any nation that is weak militarily may be attacked by the US at will. It is reasonable for North Korea to deter US attacks with threats of total war.

Second, North Korea expects no help from China, Russia, or other nations in case of war with the US. It knows that it will be fighting the superpower alone. Nominally, China and Russia are North Korea's allies but neither ally is expected to provide any assistance to North Korea in case of war. Neither nation can or is willing to protect North Korea from attacks by the US, and North Korea alone can and will protect itself from US attacks. This principle of self-defense applies to all nations.

Third, North Korea's total war plan has two components: massive conventional warfare and weapons of mass destruction. If the US mounts a preemptive strike on North Korea's Yongbyon nuclear plants, North Korea will retaliate with weapons of mass destruction: North Korea will mount strategic nuclear attacks on the US targets. The US war planners know this and have drawn up their own nuclear war plan. In a nuclear exchange, there is no front or rear areas, no defensive positions or attack formations as in conventional warfare. Nuclear weapons are offensive weapons and there is no defense against nuclear attacks except retaliatory nuclear attacks. For this reason, North Korea's war plan is offensive in nature: North Korea's war plan goes beyond repulsing US attackers and calls for destruction of the United States.

The US war plan '5027' calls for military occupation of North Korea; it goes beyond the elimination of North Korea's weapons of mass destruction. The US military regards North Korea its main enemy and likewise North Korea regards the US its main enemy. South Korea, too, regards North Korea its main enemy but North Korea does not regard South Korea its main enemy because South Korea is a client state of the United States and has no ability or power to act independent of the US. North Korea's war plan is not for invading South Korea but for destroying the US.

3. North Korea's Military Capability

All nations keep their military capability secret. North Korea is no exception and it is not easy to assess North Korea's military power. The US claims that it knows North Korea's military secrets. The United States collects intelligence on North Korea using a variety of means: American U-2, RC-135, EP-3 and other high-altitude spy planes watch over North Korea 24 hours 7 days a week. The US 5th Air Reconnaissance Squadron has U-2R, U-2S, and other advanced spy planes at the Ohsan airbase in South Korea. In addition, the US has 70 KH-11 spy satellites hovering over North Korea.

In spite of such a massive deployment of intelligence collection assets, the US intelligence on North Korea is faulty at best. Donald Gregg, a former US ambassador to Seoul and a 30-year CIA veteran, has admitted that the US intelligence on North Korea has been the longest lasting story of failure in the annals of US intelligence. Gregg said that even the best spy gadget in the US arsenal cannot read what's on Kim Jong Il's mind. US Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said that North Korea uses underground optical fibers for military communication and that it is nearly impossible to plant human agents in North Korea.

Although North Korea's military secrets are impervious to US spy operations, one can draw some general pictures from information available in the public domain.

a) North Korea makes its own weapons

North Korea has annual production capacity for 200,000 AK automatic guns, 3,000 heavy guns, 200 battle tanks, 400 armored cars and amphibious crafts. North Korea makes its own submarines, landing drafts, high-speed missile-boats, and other types of warships. Home-made weaponry makes it possible for North Korea to maintain a large military force on a shoestring budget. North Korea defense industry is made of three groups: weapon production, production of military supplies, and military-civilian dual-use product manufacturing.

North Korea has 17 plants for guns and artillery, 35 plants for ammunition, 5 plants for tanks and armored cars, 8 plants for airplanes, 5 plants for warships, 3 plants for guided missiles, 5 plants for communication equipment, and 8 plants for biochemical warheads - 134 plants in total. In addition, many plants that make consumer products are designed so that they can be made to produce military items with minimum modification. About 180 of defense related plants are built underground in the rugged mountainous areas of Jagang-do. Several small to medium hydro-power plants serve these plants so that it would be nearly impossible for the US to cut off power to the plants.

b) North Korea has its own war plans

North Korea is mountainous and its coasts are long and jagged. The Korean peninsula is narrow on its waste. North Korea's weapons and war tactics are germane to Korea's unique geography. North Korea has developed its own war plans unique to fighting the US in a unique way. North Korea's military is organized into several independent, totally integrated and self-sufficient fighting units, that are ready for action at any time.

c) North Korean soldiers are well indoctrinated

The US commanders admit that North Korean soldiers are highly motivated and loyal to Kim Jong Il, and that they will fight well in case of war. Karl von Clausewitz said that people's support for war, military commanders' ability and power, and the political leadership are the three essentials for winning war. He failed to include the political indoctrination of the soldiers, which is perhaps more important than the other factors cited.

During the Iraq War just ended, the main cause of Iraq's defeat was the low moral of its soldiers. Iraqi soldiers had no will to stand and fight, and they ran away or surrendered without fight. Iraqi soldiers believed in Allah protecting them and became easy preys to the US military. North Korean soldiers are taught to fight to the bitter end. In September 1996, a North Korean submarine got stranded at Kangrung, South Korea, and its crew abandoned the ship. Eleven of the crew committed suicide and the rest fought to the last man except one who was captured. In June 1998, another submarine got caught in fishing nets at Sokcho and its crew killed themselves. Such is the fighting spirit of North Korean soldiers.

d) North Koreans are combat ready

One cannot fight war without military preparedness. North Korea's regular army is for offensive actions whereas its militias are homeland defense. North Korea's regular army consists of 4 corps in the front area, 8 corps in the rear area, one tank corps, 5 armored corps, 2 artillery corps, and 1 corps for the defense of Pyongyang, South Korea has 19 infantry divisions whereas North Korea has 80 divisions and brigades.

A North Korean infantry division has 3 infantry regiments, 1 artillery regiment (3 battalions of 122 mm rocket launchers and 1 battalion of 152 mortars), one tank battalion of 31 tanks, one anti-tank battalion, one anti-aircraft battalion, one engineer battalion, one communication battalion, one light-infantry battalion, one recon battalion, and one chemical warfare battalion.

North Korea's militias consist of 1.6 million self-defense units, 100,000 people's guards, 3.9 million workers militia, 900,000 youth guard units. These militias are tasked to defend the homeland. The militias are fully armed and undergo military trainings regularly.

i) Artillery

North Korea has 2 artillery corps and 30 artillery brigades equipped with 120mm self-propelled guns, 152mm self-propelled mortars, 170mm guns with a range of 50 km, 240 mm multiple rocket launchers with a range of 45 km, and other heavy guns. North Korea has about 18,000 heavy guns. North Korea's 170mm Goksan gun and 240mm multiple-tube rocket launchers are the most powerful guns of the world. These guns can lob shells as far south as Suwon miles beyond Seoul. The big guns are hidden in caves. Many of them are mounted on rails and can fire in all directions. They can rain 500,000 conventional and biochemical shells per hour on US troops near the DMZ. The US army bases at Yijong-bu, Paju, Yon-chun, Munsan, Ding-gu-chun, and Pochun will be obliterated in a matter of hours.

The US army in Korea is equipped with Paladin anti-artillery guns that can trace enemy shells back to the guns and fire shells at the enemy guns with pin-point accuracy. However, it takes for the Paladins about 10 min to locate the enemy guns, during which time the Paladins would be targeted by the enemy guns Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, a former US army commander in Korea, stated that the US army in Korea would be destroyed in less than three hours.

ii). Blitz Klieg

North Korea has tanks, armored cars, and self-propelled artillery for blitz klieg. North Korea has one tank corps and 15 tank brigades. The tank corps has 5 tank regiments, each of which has 4 heavy tank battalions, 1 light-tank battalion, one mechanized infantry battalion, 2 self-propelled artillery battalions.

US tanks are designed to operate in open fields. In 1941, Rommel of Germany defeated British troops in North Africa with tanks. The largest tank battle was fought at Kursk in 1943, in which the Soviets defeated Germans. In 1973, Egypt defeated Israeli tanks with anti-tank missiles. All of these tank battles were fought in open fields. The Gulf War and the recent war in Iraq saw US tanks in open fields. American and Western tank commanders do not know how to fight tank battles in rugged terrains like those of Korea. Tank battles in Korea will be fought on hilly terrains without any close air cover, because North Korean fighters will engage US planes in close dog fights.

North Korea has developed tanks ideally suited for the many rivers and mountains of Korea. These tanks are called "Chun-ma-ho", which can navigate steep slopes and cross rivers as much as 5.5 m deep. North Korea's main battle tanks - T-62s - have 155 mm guns and can travel as fast as 60 km per hour. The US main tanks - M1A - have 120 mm guns and cannot travel faster than 55 km per hour. North Korean tanks have skins 700 mm thick and TOW-II is the only anti-tank missile in the US arsenal that can penetrate this armored skin.

North Korea began to make anti-tank missiles in 1975 and has been improving its anti-tank missiles for the past 30 years. North Korea's anti-tank missiles are rated the best in the world and several foreign nations buy them. The US army in Korea relies on 72 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters to kill North Korean tanks. Each Apache has 16 Hell-Fire anti-tank missiles. As shown in the recent Iraq war, Apaches are fragile and can be easily shot down even with rifles. North Korea has about 15,000 shoulder-fired anti-air missiles ("wha-sung") and Apaches will be easy targets for wha-sung missiles. On December 17, 1994, a wha-sung missile brought down an American OH-58C spy helicopter which strayed north of the DMZ.

North Korea has 4 mechanized corps and 24 mechanized brigades. Each brigade has 1 tank battalion (31 tanks), 1 armored battalion (46 armored cars), 4 infantry battalions, one 122mm battalion (18 guns), one 152 mm battalion (18 guns), one anti-aircraft battalion (18 guns), anti-tank battalion (9 armored cars with anti-tank missiles and 12 anti-tank guns), one armored recon company (3 light armored cars, 7 armored cars, and 8 motor-cycles), one mortar company (6 mortars), one engineer company, one chemical company, and one communication company. The US army has A-10 attack planes to counter North Korea's mechanized units. In case of war, the skies over Korea will be filled with fighters in close dog-fights and the A-10s would be ineffective.

The bulk of North Korea's mechanized and tank units are positioned to cross the DMZ at a moment's notice and run over the US and South Korean defenders. The attackers will be aided by SU-25 attack planes and attack helicopters. In addition, North Korea has 600 high-speed landing crafts, 140 hovercrafts, and 3,000 K-60 and other pontoon bridges for river-crossing. North Korea has 700,000 troops, 8,000 heavy guns, and 2,000 tanks placed in more than 4,000 hardened bunkers within 150 km of the DMZ.

iii. Underground Tunnel Warfare

North Korea is the world most-tunneled nation. North Korea's expertise in digging tunnels for warfare was demonstrated during the Vietnam War. North Korea sent about 100 tunnel warfare experts to Vietnam to help dig the 250 km tunnels for the North Vietnamese and Viet Gong troops in South Vietnam. The tunnels were instrumental in the Vietnamese victory.

North Korea's army runs on company-size units. Tunnel warfare is conducted by independent company-size units. Tunnel entrances are built to withstand US chemical and biological attacks. Tunnels run zig-zag and have seals, air-purification units, and safe places for the troops to rest. It is believed that North Korea has built about 20 large tunnels near the DMZ. A large tunnel can transport 15,000 troops per hour across the DMZ and place them behind the US troops.

iv. Special Forces

North Korea has the largest special forces, 120,000 troops, in the world. These troops are grouped into light infantry brigades, attack brigades, air-borne brigades, and sea-born brigades - 25 brigades in total. These troops will be tasked to attack US military installations in Korea, Japan, Okinawa and Guam.

North Korea has the capacity to transport 20,000 special force troops at the same time. North Korea has 130 high-speed landing crafts and 140 hovercrafts. A North Korean hovercraft can carry one platoon of troops at 90 km per hour. Western experts pooh-pooh North Korea's ancient AN-2 transport planes as 1948 relics, but AN-2 planes can fly low beneath US radars and deliver up to 10 troops at 160 km per hour. North Korea makes AN-2s and has about 300 in place. In addition, North Korea has hang-gliders that can carry 5-20 men each for short hops.

North Korea has developed special bikes for mountain warfare. Special forces use these bikes for fast deployments on mountains. Switzerland is the only other nation that has bike-mounted special forces trained for mountain warfare. The rugged terrains of the Korean Peninsula are ideally suited for special forces operations. North Korea's special forces will attack US targets in Japan, Okinawa, and Guam as well. Japan's self defense units are being reorganized to counter this threat.

How good are North Korea's special forces? In September 1996, a North Korean submarine was stranded near Kang-nung and the crew were forced to abandon the ship and land on South Korea. The sub had two special forces agents who had finished a mission in South Korea and were picked up by the sub before the sub ran into a rock. The two men fought off an army of South Korean troops and remained at large for 50 days, during which they killed 11 of the pursuers.

4. Weapons of Mass Destruction

a. Missile Readiness

North Korea is a nuclear state along with the US, Russia, China, the Great Britain, France, India, Pakistan, and Israel. North Korea has succeeded in weaponizing nuclear devices for missile delivery. North Korea has operational fleets of ICBM and intermediate-range missiles equipped with nuclear warheads. I have written on this subject previously and will not replicate the details here.

It was May of 1994, nine years ago, when the US military planners had first realized that North Korea had the bomb and devised nuclear attack plans under William Perry, the then US Secretary of Defense. Perry had estimated that North Korea would have about 100 nuclear warheads by 2000. Dr. Kim Myong Chul, an expert on Kim Jong Il's war plans, has recently confirmed that North Korea has more than 100 nukes including hydrogen bombs.

North Korea can produce about 100 missiles a year. It began to make missiles in 1980 and has about 1,000 missiles of various types in place, about 100 of which have nuclear warheads. These missiles are hidden in caves and underground launching pads. At present, the US has no fool-proof defense against North Korean missiles, and in case of war, North Korean missiles can do serious damages: several hundreds of thousands of US troops will die, and scores of US bases and carrier battle groups will be destroyed. The Patriot anti-missile missiles are deployed in South Korea but as shown in the recent Iraq war, the Patriots are not 100% accurate or reliable even under ideal conditions.

b. Biochemical Warfare

North Korea has a large stockpile of biochemical weapons. Each Army corps has a chemical company and each regiment has a chemical platoon. In the May 1994 nuclear crisis, Perry warned North Korea that the US would retaliate with nuclear weapons if North Korea used chemical weapons on US troops.

North Korean troops and citizens are well-prepared for bio-chemical attacks.

5. North Korea's Defense Against US Attacks

a. Fortification

North Korea began to build fortifications in 1960s. All key military facilities are built underground to withstand American bunker-buster bombs. North Korea has 8,236 underground facilities that are linked by 547 km of tunnels. Beneath Pyongyang are a huge underground stadium and other facilities. About 1.2 million tons of food, 1.46 million tons of fuel, and 1.67 million tons of ammunition are stored in underground storage areas for wartime use.

Most of the underground facilities are drilled into granite rocks and the entrances face north in order to avoid direct hits by American bombs and missiles. The B-61 Mod 11 is the main bunker buster in the US arsenal. A recent test showed that this buster could penetrate only 6 meters of rock. The latest GBU-28 laser-guided bunker-buster can penetrate to 30m. North Korean bunkers have at least 80 m of top-cover of solid rocks. North Korea has many false caves that emit heats that will misdirect unwary GBU-28/37 and BKU-113 bunker-busters.

The US military targets enemy command and control centers based on the doctrine of chopping off "the head of the snake." With the top commanders eliminated, the rank and file would be demoralized, leaderless and would surrender. North Korea's extensive underground fortification makes this strategy unworkable. In addition, the underground facilities make US spy planes and satellites impotent.

b. Air Defense

North Korea has a large number of ground-to-air missiles. It has SA-2 and SA-3 missiles against low-flying enemy planes, and SA-5 missiles for high-altitude planes. SA-5 missiles have an effective range of 250 km. SA-5 missiles can hit enemy planes flying over the middle of South Korea.

North Korea has reengineered US shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles captured in Vietnam, and designed its own missile, wha-sung. North Korea began to manufacture wha-sung missiles in 1980. Wha-sung comes in two models: SA-7 that has an effective range of 5 km and SA-16 with 10 km range. North Korea has more than 15,000 wha-sung missiles in place.

In addition to the missiles, North Korea has 12,000 anti-aircraft guns, including 37mm twin-barrel guns, 23 mm automatics, 57mm, 87mm, and 100mm heavy guns. These are mostly manually operated and thus not subject to electronic warfare.

c. Coastal deferens.

North Korea's coastlines are long and jagged. Coastal guns are placed in fortified tunnels along the coastline. North Korea has six ground-to-ship missile bases. North Korea has anti-ship missiles of 95km range, and of 160km range. The latter are for hitting US carrier battle groups over the horizon. North Korean anti-ship missiles can hit ships anchored at Inchon on the west and Sokcho on the east.

America's main defense against anti-ship missiles, the Arleigh Burke class Aegis destroyers are ineffective outside 20-50 km from missile launch pads.

d. Sea Battles

North Korea has two fleets - the West Fleet and the East Fleet. The West Fleet has 6 squadrons of 320 ships and the East Fleet has 10 squadron of 460 ships. The navy has a total manpower of 46,000. North Korean ships are sheltered from US attacks in about 20 bunkers of 200-900 m longs and 14-22 m wide. North Korean ships are small and agile, designed for coastal defense. North Korean ships carry 46km range ship-to-ship missiles and 22-channel multiple rocket launchers.

The main enemy of the North Korean navy will be US carrier task forces. The Russian navy has developed a tactic to deal with US carriers task forces: massive simultaneous missile attacks. In addition, Russia has developed the anti-carrier missile, "jun-gal", that can destroy a carrier. China has developed similar tactics for destroying US carriers. On April 1, 2003, North Korea test-fired a high-speed ground-to-ship missile of 60km range. A US carrier task force of Nimitz class has 6,000 men, 70 planes, and a price tag of 4.5 billion dollars. Destroying even a single career task force will be traumatic.

A carrier is protected by a shield of 6 Aegis destroyers and nuclear attack submarines. An Aegis destroyer has an AN/SPY-1 high-capacity radar system that can track more than 100 targets at the same time. An Aegis can fire about 20 anti-missile missiles at the same time. Thus, a career force can track a total of 600 targets at a time and fire 120 anti-missile missiles at the same time. The anti-missile missiles have about 50% success under ideal conditions. In actual battle situations, the hit rate will be much lower and the best estimate is that the Aegis shield can intercept at most 55 incoming missiles. Therefore, a volley of about 60 missiles and rockets will penetrate the Aegis shield and hit the career.

North Korea acquired OSA and KOMAR high-speed missile boats in 1968, and began to build its own missile boats in 1981. It has more than 50 missile boats, each equipped with 4 missiles of 46km range and multiple rocket launchers. In addition, North Korea has about 300 speed boats, 200 torpedo boats and 170 other gunboats. In case of war, North Korea's small crafts and submarines will swarm around US career task forces and destroy them.

North Korea has 35 submarines and 65 submersibles. These crafts are equipped with torpedoes and will be used to attack US careers. They will also lay mines and block enemy harbors. North Korea has a large supply of mines. North Korean submarines are small but they are equipped with 8km rocket launchers and 70km anti-ship missiles, and they could do some serious damage to US careers..

e. Air Combats

North Korea has three air commands. Each command has a fighter regiment, a bomber regiment, an AN-2 regiment, an attack helicopter regiment, a missile regiment, and a radar regiment. Each command can operate independently. North Korea has 70 airbases, which are fortified against US attacks. Underground hangars protect the planes and have multiple exits for the planes to take off on different runways. North Korea has several fake airfields and fake planes to confuse US attackers.

It is said that North Korea's planes are obsolete and no match for US planes. North Korea has 770 fighters, 80 bombers, 700 transports, 290 helicopters, and 84,000 men. In case of war, North Korean planes will fly low hugging the rugged terrains and attack enemy targets. US planes are parked above ground at bases in Korea, Japan, Okinawa and Guam, and make easy targets for missile, rocket and air attacks. When war breaks out, North Korean missiles, rockets and heavy guns will destroy the 8 US airbases in South Korea, and any plane in the air would have no place to land.

North Korea's fighter planes are ill-equipped for air-to-air combats at long distances. but they can hold their own in close-quarter air combats. MiG-21 fighters from Bongchun and US F-15 from Ohsan would meet in less than 5 min, assuming they took off at about the same time. In about 5 min, hundreds of MiG21s and F-15s would be swirling in the skies over Korea. Ground-to-air missiles and air-to-air missiles would have hard time telling friends from foes. F-15Es are equipped with a radar system that lock on at 180 km for large objects and 90 km for small objects. Sidewinder missiles have an effective range of 16km, AMRAAM missiles of 50km, and Sparrow of 55km.

Korea is 100 km wide and 125 km long, and so US air-to-air missiles would be of limited use and effectiveness, because North Korean MiGs would approach the US planes in close proximity and commingle with US planes, and air-to-air missiles will become useless and machines guns will have to be used. MiG19s have 30mm guns, MiG21s have 23mm guns, and F-14s have 20mm Valkans. North Korean pilots are trained to hug the enemy planes so that air-to-air missiles cannot be used. In contrast, US pilots are trained to lock on the enemy at long distance with radar and fire missiles. US planes are heavily armed with electronics and less agile than the light, lean MiGs that can climb and turn faster than the US planes.

F-14s are about 3.3 times heavier than MiG21s, and F-150Es are about 3.6 times heavier. MiG21s are 16.6 m long whereas F-14s are 19.1 m and F-15Es 19.43 m long. MiG21s cab climb to 18km, whereas F-1A can climb to 15.8 km and F-16 to 15.2 km. MiGs get upper hands in close-range dogfights in which agility matters. In Vietnam, US planes were forced to jettison auxiliary gas tanks and bombs in order to engage MiGs. F-150 E planes will carry BLU-113 bunker busters that weigh 2,250 kg each in the next war in Korea. Loaded with such a heavy bomb, F-15s will become easy targets for North Korea's MiGs. US fighter-bombers will be protected by F-15C fighter escorts.

MiG21s are North Korea's main workhorse. The MiG21 debuted in 1965 in Vietnam and proved itself as an effective attack fighter. In 1999, North Korea bought 40 MiG21s from Kazakhstan. During the Vietnam War, MiG17s shot down dozens of American planes. North Korea sent more than 200 pilots to fight in the Vietnam War. They were tasked to defend Hanoi and shot down scores of US planes. North Korea sent 25 pilots to Syria during the 3rd Arab-Israeli war of 1966, and 30 pilots to Egypt and Syria during the 4th Arab-Israeli war of 1973. In 1976, North Korea sent more than 40 pilots to Syria.

f. Electronic Warfare

The United States excels in electronic warfare and no nation comes anywhere near the US capability. North Korea began developing its own electronic warfare methods in 1970. It is believed that North Korea has advanced electronic warfare ability. It has numerous counter measures for US electronic warfare. During the recent war in Iraq, the US dropped e-bombs that disabled the Iraqi electronic devices. North Korea relies heavily on non-electronic command and control means, and hence US e-bombs will have limited impacts in North Korea.

North Korea trains about 100 hackers a year and has computer virus battalions in place. These hackers are capable of interrupting US communication networks. In a war game conducted in 1991 by US war planners, North Korea came out the victor with and without nuclear weapons. Kim Jong Il has no doubt that his army can beat the US army.

6. US Military Defeats in the Past

Military power dictates the outcome of war. In assessing the next war in Korea, the military power of the opponents must be examined objectively. Until now, North Korea's military power has not been properly studied. In general, Western experts tend to underestimate North Korea's military strength. Politicians in America and South Korea play down North Korean threats for political reasons.

It has been said that North Korean army is large in numbers but their equipment are obsolete, and hence it is a weak army. The US war planners assess North Korean army using computer simulations of war in Korea. US war plan for the recent Iraq war was refined using more than 40 computer-simulated wars in Iraq. The computer simulation models use weapon system features among other factors to determine the outcome.

It is true that the advanced weapons were instrumental in the US victory in the Gulf War, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. On the other hand, the US army was defeated by ill-equipped foes in Korea and Vietnam. The latter two wars show that superior weapons do not always lead to a victory. North Korean and Chinese forces in Korea and the Vietnamese forces fought with superior tactics and stronger fighting fighting spirits.

In the next war in Korea, the US army will face an enemy much more determined and better equipped than the army in the Korean War of 1950-53.

Regards,
Hist2004

AmericanDude04
07-07-2004, 06:09 PM
Just one little thing. The F-22, MOAB, B-2,B-1. I think with these things the war in Korea will be different, but not in the way that Han Ho Suk thanks it will.

AmericanDude04
07-07-2004, 06:18 PM
Besides these things there are men Like Delta Force, Army Rangers, Green Berets, Seal Teams, Seal Team Six. With these guys I think they are just alittle more modivated that the North Koreans are.

DPGLAW
07-07-2004, 06:43 PM
I think that if that retard kim jong whatever the **** had ordered his "warplanes" to shoot down our spyplane, NK would be rubble right now....and the world would be a better place...

Flagg
07-07-2004, 06:51 PM
By Han Ho Suk
Director Center for Korean Affairs

I wonder who funds the Center of Korean Affairs?

It would appear they are quite sympathetic towards North Korea's position.

Falco
07-07-2004, 07:26 PM
I'm no expert at this but it seems that this text isn't really accurate.


North Korea has developed tanks ideally suited for the many rivers and mountains of Korea. These tanks are called "Chun-ma-ho", which can navigate steep slopes and cross rivers as much as 5.5 m deep. North Korea's main battle tanks - T-62s - have 155 mm guns and can travel as fast as 60 km per hour. The US main tanks - M1A - have 120 mm guns and cannot travel faster than 55 km per hour. North Korean tanks have skins 700 mm thick and TOW-II is the only anti-tank missile in the US arsenal that can penetrate this armored skin.


T-62s with 155mm guns?
M1 with a maximum speed of 55km/h?
TOW-II is the only weapon in the us arsenal that can breach through 700mm of armour?

Operation Ivy
07-07-2004, 07:51 PM
T-62s - have 155 mm guns and can travel as fast as 60 km per hour.

:roll:

Thats bull a T-62 could not support a 152mm cannon

Laworkerbee
07-07-2004, 08:07 PM
Oh yea the N.Koreans can wage total war LOL

with what fuel, spare parts, munitions and espcially FOOD!.

The S.Koreans dont need us there, they have a bigger population, advanced weapons, an economy that the North cant even compare too, and food they have food.

Laworkerbee
07-07-2004, 08:11 PM
On second reading of this post

Its quite simply a joke, I hope to god some Joker didnt get paid writing up this garbage!

Midav
07-07-2004, 08:11 PM
Edit never mind

moughoun
07-07-2004, 08:14 PM
I don't think anyone doubt's that the US would win a war, even the boy's in charge in NKPR know it, but the devestation they could reek would be off the scale :(

hist2004
07-07-2004, 08:30 PM
Besides these things there are men Like Delta Force, Army Rangers, Green Berets, Seal Teams, Seal Team Six. With these guys I think they are just alittle more modivated that the North Koreans are.

I have to disagree. North Korean SOF are well trained and motivated.

As for the rest of the article, it's just another viewpoint, from which there
many points one can choose to agree or not.

Regards,
Hist2004

MEGR
07-07-2004, 11:15 PM
Interesting article.. However, from what I can see on the news and such, it doesn't look like a war will happen between US and NK anytime soon. Aren't we pulling 10s of thousands of troops from the DMZ.. From what I see and read, we are actually reducing any military presence and any chance of military conflict.

Burncycle
07-08-2004, 12:14 AM
This has been passed around for a while now. It's nothing more than rhetoric and propaganda.

Milkman
07-08-2004, 01:09 AM
The T-62 can barely hold a 115mm gun, and has a top speed of about 32 mph. Its homogenous steel armour is easily penetrated by Dragon I & II's, and the warheads on those are quite small in comparison to a Tow1 or Tow2a. The Air fighter portion of article is pure rubbish, Mig-21 "Flying coffins" have one of the worst dogfight ratios in Jet fighting history. Don't get me started on the Mig-19, its from the 50's for gods sake. Saying a Mig is better than an F-15 just because it is lighter and shorter is just plain out retarded. And he seems to think the F-15E is a F-150, wtf that is a mid-sized pick-up truck!

The only thing credible in this article is the artillery portion. They have the capability to fire on Seoul and beyond with devestating power.

rawkitheart
07-08-2004, 03:06 AM
I don't think anyone doubt's that the US would win a war, even the boy's in charge in NKPR know it, but the devestation they could reek would be off the scale :(

exactly. it's been estimated that there are enough artillery pieces aimed at seoul currently to destroy the city in a single barrage. thats an area incredibly dense with over 15 million residents.

duck
07-08-2004, 11:55 AM
Three major threaths:

-Artillery aimed at Seoul

-Nuclear weapons

-Special Forces

The PRK armor and air force will be gone in days.

Wakizashi
07-08-2004, 11:56 PM
i think a few of you guys hit it on the ball, a hell of alot of people would die in this possible war, hope i never live to see it. Hope cool heads always win threw eh?

Hammy
07-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Three major threaths:

-Artillery aimed at Seoul

-Nuclear weapons

-Special Forces

The PRK armor and air force will be gone in days.

Yes the you would most probably win the air war over North Korea, but would suffer constant looses to their SAM, AAA systems. I may remind you that North Korea isnt Iraq where open tank battles clearly resulted in Iraqi defeat due to better electro-optical aiming devices of the US armor. North K. terrain is most unsuited for tank battles, since the terrain is very hilly and densely forested.

duck
07-09-2004, 06:27 PM
The major tank battles would be fought just north of Seoul and possibly in the city itself, not on the PRK side of the armistice line. Action in North Korea might consist of Marine landings around and an air-assault operation on Pyongyang, of course precluded by massive air strikes on its air defenses and command & control facilities.

The difference to Iraq and Serbia is that the North Koreans have to attack relentlessly to have any chance of even a stalemate. Outside their fortified positions in hostile South Korean territory they won't last long in a defensive battle. The other possibility they have is that their SOF guys murder, pillage and agitate to the extent where South Korean society collapses in panic and thus the flow of US reinforcements and material is interrupted.

Deuterium
07-09-2004, 08:35 PM
This article has more factual inaccuracies than Clinton telling his wife what he did while she was away.

hist2004
07-09-2004, 08:54 PM
This article has more factual inaccuracies than Clinton telling his wife what he did while she was away.

Point them out so the readers have a reference.

Regards,
Hist2004

Deuterium
07-09-2004, 09:32 PM
I'm sorry but if you can't see the blatant inaccuracies, specious reasoning, and fallacious factoids of the article, your question doesn't warrant a response. Have you even read responses from the other posters? They have already pointed out NUMEROUS faults. I don't think anyone would seriously underestimate the NBC threat, shear numbers of NK soldiers, artillery, or will of the NKs. But I guess I expected more of you after your previous postings. I guess I was wrong.

hist2004
07-09-2004, 09:45 PM
I'm sorry but if you can't see the blatant inaccuracies, specious reasoning, and fallacious factoids of the article, your question doesn't warrant a response.

Having read any of my previous posts you should know better. I framed
the question that way so people don't throw a grenade and run. I'm well
aware of the articles content, let the readers decide.

Regards,
Hist2004

Deuterium
07-09-2004, 10:08 PM
I'm sorry but if you can't see the blatant inaccuracies, specious reasoning, and fallacious factoids of the article, your question doesn't warrant a response.

Having read any of my previous posts you should know better. I framed
the question that way so people don't throw a grenade and run. I'm well
aware of the articles content, let the readers decide.

Regards,
Hist2004

Okay touché but let's not let the kiddies get wrong impressions from such an obvious imperfect argument. It might be easy for you and me to see through this and get a laugh or two, but the majority of the people here will look at the article and not be able to make a sound judgment as to the facts(sic) presented.

Brozozo
07-09-2004, 10:24 PM
This article is completely ridiculous!

First of all, his incorrect spelling of "blitzkrieg," he splet it "blitz klieg" and "viet gong" instead of "viet cong" in addition to the bull**** about the "F150E" instead of the "F-15E" completly destroys his credibility. And comparing a T-62 to an M1 and stating that the 62 has a 155mm gun is like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Porche 911 and claiming that the Corollla has a 6.5L V-12 600hp engine!

He claims that N.Korea is so secretive that 24-hour US surveillance with the world's most high-tech planes and satellites yields no results. Strangely enough he knows the exact figures of how much food, oil and ammo is stored underneath Pyongyang and how many defence plants are in operation and where. Soon he'll claim that he can tell you what color thong Kim Long-Il is wearing any given day!

And what was that nonsense about US missiles being ineffective simply because the peninsula is too narrow? WTF? And since when can a relic MiG-21 bought second-hand from the Kazahks out-turn a F-15? Sure as hell you can expect F-22s to make an appearance if such a war were to erupt, what then?

700mm of armour on a T-62? I hope he meant an equivalent of 700mm because with a 70cm thick shell of steel that thing probably wouldn't budge. Anyways, American troops wouldn't waste a TOW II on a T-62, they's send that thing to the scrap yard with nothing more than Javelin or LAW.

And why is he boasting about N.Korea's ability to create its own weapons, that's one of the reasons they would lose a war. What kind of weapons can you expect made by an impoverished, illetirate peasant?

SA-5 with a range of 250km? Only if you drop it from a cliff that high.

How do they expect to win a war when there subs are being caught in FISHING NETS of South Korean trawlers?

And where the f*ck is he getting all this specific info from anyways?

:fork: :cantbeli: :slap:

radon
07-09-2004, 11:39 PM
The writer most likely still lives in the early 60s or 50s. Nk airforce might do something in dogfights but they will be shot down before they get even near the enemy planes.

T62 has a advantage due to the size and weight of the M1 , but it's still antique. The suicidal Nk submarine people could be different than the majority of the Nkean soldiers.

radon
07-09-2004, 11:42 PM
[, but the majority of the people here will look at the article and not be able to make a sound judgment as to the facts(sic) presented.

That starts to look like propaganda even to people without any idea of what a "t62" is.

Brozozo
07-10-2004, 12:21 AM
"T-62"? Isn't that a weapon of mass destruction?

:lol:

Sayeret
07-10-2004, 01:48 AM
This article had a ton of flaws. I did like how it was set up but besides that I didn't like the article because of infomation provided in it was flawed. I don't think any country should be underestimated but this guy makes North Korea sound like some kind of super power.


The US army in Korea is equipped with Paladin anti-artillery guns that can trace enemy shells back to the guns and fire shells at the enemy guns with pin-point accuracy. However, it takes for the Paladins about 10 min to locate the enemy guns, during which time the Paladins would be targeted by the enemy guns

I'm curious where he gets this info I would think that the US would be able to fire at North Korea artillery in short time. The US has more advanced technology and better communication devices for its artillery then North Korea so I find this really unlikely.


Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, a former US army commander in Korea, stated that the US army in Korea would be destroyed in less than three hours.

This sounds really stupid. :bash:


Iraqi soldiers had no will to stand and fight, and they ran away or surrendered without fight. Iraqi soldiers believed in Allah protecting them and became easy preys to the US military.

Iraqi soldiers did not fight because of Allah or their religion this is pure crap. If they were fighting becuase of religion they probably would have fought much harder. They gave up and ran away because they saw no point in fighting against someone they couldn't win against and for a ruthless leader.


South Korea is a client state of the United States and has no ability or power to act independent of the US. North Korea's war plan is not for invading South Korea but for destroying the US.

S Korea may not be as powerful as N Korea but it could probably hold its own in a war with North Korea and even if it couldn't it would help the US a lot.


Tank battles in Korea will be fought on hilly terrains without any close air cover, because North Korean fighters will engage US planes in close dog fights.

The US is probably going to destroy the North Korean air force before they send ground forces in and even if theyd didn't the US has a huge advantage over the North Korean air force because of training and technology.


North Korea has developed tanks ideally suited for the many rivers and mountains of Korea.

Aern't most North Korean tanks modified Soviet tanks? How are they ideally suited for this terrain?


North Korea's main battle tanks - T-62s - have 155 mm guns and can travel as fast as 60 km per hour.

Thats a load of crap. The T-62 can't travel that fast even without a 155mm gun. Its more like an artillery piece if that kind of gun then a tank.


The US main tanks - M1A - have 120 mm guns and cannot travel faster than 55 km per hour.

The M1 has a huge advantage over the T-62. One big difference is the type of armor used and even if the T-62 has a 155mm cannon the M1 has a more accurate gun because of laser range finders and other equipment.


North Korean tanks have skins 700 mm thick and TOW-II is the only anti-tank missile in the US arsenal that can penetrate this armored skin.

It may have 700mm on the front of it but it doesn't have the top and thats where the TOW 2 attacks. Also if a modified version of an RPG can tank out a M1 then it should have no problem taking out a T-62. Probably any anti-tank weapon made since 1960 could destroy the T-62, since that was around the time period the tank was made.


In case of war, the skies over Korea will be filled with fighters in close dog-fights and the A-10s would be ineffective.

They would escort the A-10 with fighters then or they destroy the North Korean air force before it could be used.


North Korea has operational fleets of ICBM and intermediate-range missiles equipped with nuclear warheads.

North Korea doesn't have ICBMs. Theres only a few countries that actually have them. Also last time I heard North Korea only have two or three nuclear weapons not 200.


It has SA-2 and SA-3 missiles against low-flying enemy planes, and SA-5 missiles for high-altitude planes. SA-5 missiles have an effective range of 250 km. SA-5 missiles can hit enemy planes flying over the middle of South Korea.

Those are all really old anti-aircraft weapons. Thats the same kind of weapons that the US fought in Vietnam and the first Gulf War. Israel fought and destroyed a lot of those kind of weapons in the Six Day War. Both Israel and the United States found effective ways in jamming even one of the newer models of the SA-2, the SA-2F.They would be destroyed like they were in the first Gulf War.

Heres a quote regarding the SA-2.


By 1968 the effectiveness of the SA-2 was seriously limited, it took on average 30 missiles to hit an aircraft. By 1972 the deployment had continued until 300 sites were operational, but effectiveness dropped even more, so much so that the USAF was able to fly the B-52 "downtown" Hanoi with impunity, the aircraft that the SA-2 was essentially designed to defeat. In desperation the air defence forces took to launching them unguided into the bomber streams, using them essentially as oversized anti-aircraft guns, and eventually ran out of missiles during the Linebacker-II raids in 1972.



the hit rate will be much lower and the best estimate is that the Aegis shield can intercept at most 55 incoming missiles. Therefore, a volley of about 60 missiles and rockets will penetrate the Aegis shield and hit the career.

The Aegis class ship stay with Aegis class ships so they should be able to shoot down all or most of the missiles. Also I doubt that the US would move their carriers close enough to the North Korea coast for them to be shot at by anti-ship missiles.


US planes are parked above ground at bases in Korea, Japan, Okinawa and Guam, and make easy targets for missile, rocket and air attacks. When war breaks out, North Korean missiles, rockets and heavy guns will destroy the 8 US airbases in South Korea, and any plane in the air would have no place to land

Why is this guy saying that 8 US airbases in S Korea will be destroyed. Maybe he believes he can tell the future. ;)


MiG-21 fighters from Bongchun and US F-15 from Ohsan would meet in less than 5 min, assuming they took off at about the same time.

The F-15 and F-16s would still have an advantage over the MIG 21 because the large jump in technology.


Korea is 100 km wide and 125 km long, and so US air-to-air missiles would be of limited use and effectiveness, because North Korean MiGs would approach the US planes in close proximity and commingle with US planes, and air-to-air missiles will become useless and machines guns will have to be used. MiG19s have 30mm guns, MiG21s have 23mm guns, and F-14s have 20mm Valkans

The author of this keeps talking about this like the Americans still use Vietnam era weapons. The F-15 and F-14 are much more advanced fighters then the MIG 19 and MIG 21s and even if they got into a dog fight they would still have an advantage maybe not as big of one but they would still have some.

instantmilkshake
07-13-2004, 02:41 PM
I say lets leave them alone!

by that I mean, leave them to rot in their old crappy tanks, let them spend millions on weapons while they can't feed their own people. Then we'll just mop up afterward. woot

Pooga
07-13-2004, 06:58 PM
Mig-21s against F-15s? Are you kidding me? That's like a pigeon against an…eagle.

T-62 against M-1s? Are you kidding me? They can't even move and shoot at the same time.

We would still be able to pick off their SAMs one by one. It's called F-117 or B-2 to take out their Fan Songs and Barlocks. Then let the B-52s roll in with 16 JDAMs that can each choose a different target. Not to mention Apaches can finally attack tanks instead of guerillas in buildings. We've got the Joint Standoff Weapon to clear out swaths of tanks, and all those nasty goodies.

The problem is, is that there's so many of them.

instantmilkshake
07-13-2004, 07:04 PM
So many of them?

I have the perfect weapon... Giant bowling balls, just line them up and let the roll down!

Kilgor
07-13-2004, 09:27 PM
big question...

what would china do ?

duck
07-13-2004, 11:48 PM
Good question. My take on it: China could organize a military coup in North Korea if they benefit enough from change. A secret joint US-China agreement on the future of Taiwan, a Japanese declaration on the size of their fleet and NBC weapons stance and a South Korean leadership not too keen to take over the PRK nuclear warheads for it's own use. Perfect, more time for the USA and China to prepare for the showdown on control of the Yellow Sea. A unified Korea too busy to challenge Japan. Japan under moral obligation to donate huge sums for the rebuilding process. Looks convinient.

duck
07-13-2004, 11:51 PM
dt

Kilgor
07-14-2004, 12:07 AM
China has alot to worry about if the whole country unites and they have a very Pro USA country now on its doorstep.

Roger Rabbit
07-21-2004, 04:59 AM
What kind of weapons can you expect made by an impoverished, illetirate peasant?

I dunno, ask the Vietcong.

Hellman109
07-21-2004, 09:35 AM
What kind of weapons can you expect made by an impoverished, illetirate peasant?

I dunno, ask the Vietcong.

N. Korea sells ALLOT of missles to whoever wants to buy. Also just about all there budget goes to the military. There military has been geared for 30 years to fight the US. They have every man woman and child willing to defend them.

Thinking N. Korea isnt a real threat is stupid, and if you were a decision maker, it would be gross neglegence.

hist2004
07-21-2004, 09:56 AM
Thinking N. Korea isnt a real threat is stupid, and if you were a decision maker, it would be gross neglegence.

Absolutely true, when US soldiers came upon positions overrun by the North Koreans, they found their fellow
soldiers with their hands bound behind their back with barbwire and shot in the back of the head. North
Korean soldiers are thoroughly indoctrinated and have “fire in the belly”. They won’t drop their weapons and
run at the site of American forces.

Regards,
Hist2004

Hellman109
07-21-2004, 10:28 AM
Thinking N. Korea isnt a real threat is stupid, and if you were a decision maker, it would be gross neglegence.

Absolutely true, when US soldiers came upon positions overrun by the North Koreans, they found their fellow
soldiers with their hands bound behind their back with barbwire and shot in the back of the head. North
Korean soldiers are thoroughly indoctrinated and have “fire in the belly”. They won’t drop their weapons and
run at the site of American forces.

Regards,
Hist2004

A documentry I saw on N. Korea about a week ago here in Australia showed this well. For instance, one farmers wife (who also worked the farm) would watch a couple of hours of there current president (kim jong li? or was that his father? too late to remember...) inspecting his troops, the thing is that it is a channel with ONLY this on it, it is a loop of a couple of hours that is played over and over.

EVERYONE has a picture of both li's in there house, atleast once, they believe every word he says, no one questions him, it is accepted that he is ALWAYS telling the truth, and it really doesnt seem like an iron fist thing, they really seemed to believe it.

They talked to the commander on the front line with US soldiers, when the reporters started to question his loyalty to the Li's, he got really seriously pissed off, like you were insulting his family in a personal way or something. The people looking after the journalists (every tourist has one of these) said that if they continued to question it, he might try and kill them, he was seriously NOT HAPPY with them questioning it.

They also talked to defectors, many of which are in the US now. They talked to one person who lead a prison camp to the north. He said very straightly that he believed what he was doing was right, he had many people killed in experiments (biological and/or chamical tests it seemed like mainly from what he said) and he thought they deserved to die as they went against the Li's.

If N. Korea was provoked to attack, attacked themselves, or attacked of there own accord, there is no geneva convention, no rules of war, no rules of engagement, only the goal of victory. They will use everything in there arsenal to kill US troops and interests, and never have a second thought. They will fight to the last no matter how bad it looks, and deserting, being captured, or nor following orders wouldnt ever be thought of. Those attacking N. Korea would be attacked by everyone and everything along the way, they would have no friends there at all, and even if they did capture it, it would have bitter fighting from locals for a long time.

If the US thought it could really impose a regime change, or take N. Korea by force, they would be there and not Iraq at the moment, but N. Korea is a web of war and death if ever attacked militarily, and they have not been successful in forming an insurgency there to oust the Li's at all, it would be crazy to think that they havent tried.

hist2004
07-21-2004, 11:45 AM
Warriors from the North

01/15/2003

By Newsweek

Pyongyang's Special Operations Force consists of the world's best trained killers. They could be the wild card in any fight for Korea, suggest George Wehrfritz and Hideko Takayama.

When Japanese investigators raised a North Korean spy ship from the ocean’s depths last September, they found more than they’d bargained for. The vessel, which sank after a fire fight with the Japanese Coast Guard in December 2001, had an arsenal worthy of Arnold Schwarzenegger: rocket launchers, an 82mm bazooka, an antiaircraft machine gun and two surface-to-air missiles.
But the carnage within the ship’s hull revealed a second battle: when all was lost, North Korean commandos onboard executed the few surviving sailors and scuttled the ship to avoid capture. One of them, perhaps in his last act, scribbled a short message on a wooden board that was later found by the Coast Guard. It read: “To the Party, this child shall be your loyal subject forever.”

Such are the ways of North Korea’s Special Operations Force, an army with the killing skills of Navy SEALs but large enough to populate a small city. U.S. military estimates put the SOF’s ranks at more than 100,000, making it the world’s largest commando force by far. Most soldiers couldn’t handle even one of these warriors in a foxhole. Well-schooled in the martial arts, they can take on several opponents at once with their bare hands. With a sniper’s rifle in those hands, they are said to be able take down more than a few moving targets – at 200 meters – in 15 seconds. One of the corps’s many “bravery exercises” involves sneaking across the demilitarized zone to grab a sign or other souvenir from the South. And if they fail in completing any missions, they are trained to kill themselves on the spot. Known for their unflinching loyalty to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, their role in any future North-South conflict is to create “simultaneous war everywhere in South Korea,” says a former member who defected in the 1960s.

A large part of the reason Washington is keen to resolve the Korean nuclear crisis diplomatically is because of the ferocious potential of Pyongyang’s military – not just the missiles, but the men. The U.S. Army’s latest “Threat and Balance Brief,” an unclassified account of possible war scenarios, forecasts that in the event of all-out conflict, at least 50,000 Northern commandos are expected to land behind allied lines. Some would arrive in minisubs along the coast, others aboard helicopters camouflaged to look like South Korean aircraft or in canvas biplanes flying below radar. “They have a world-class deception program,” says a U.S. military official based in South Korea. The Americans expect guerrilla attacks targeted to stop reinforcement flows from abroad; destroy ammo and fuel dumps; sever road, rail and telecom links, and otherwise “make defeating North Korea harder,” says another U.S. military official.

The SOF is menacing even in peacetime. While they have launched a number of raids in recent years, the SOF’s boldest attack came in 1968, when a 31-member assassination squad attempted to kill South Korean President Park Chung Hee. Of the intruders, 28 died in fighting near the presidential Blue House, one was captured and two managed to stagger home. “One of them had his guts spilling out from a gunshot wound,” says Osamu Eya, a Japanese journalist specializing in North Korea’s military. “He held it in with his own hands and completed the journey back to the North.”

When Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi visited Pyongyang in September, he raised the spy-ship incident during his summit meeting with Kim Jong Il. The North Korean strongman feigned surprise at Tokyo’s version of events, telling his guest “the Special Forces were engaged in a training mission,” and “I never imagined that they were doing that kind of thing!” Kim promised to halt such operations, but nobody thinks his killers have crossed the DMZ for the last time.

With B. J. Lee in Seoul.

© 2003 Newsweek, Inc.

Regards,
Hist2004

duck
07-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Uh, simple question to Hellman 109:

You are dirt poor in a f**ked up paranoid dictatorship. Over the years you have had neighbours and friends disappear into the gulag or executed for the slightest criticism of the regime. Now, one day you get a "foreign journalist" coming to your house, and of course the security people have been there to prepare you for the encounter. "Remember you are representing the PRK..." , "Don't dishonor our country or "Dear Leader"...". Actually you are not sure what the interview is all about. Is it a reliability test organized by the security services or is this guy a real journalist?

Now: Do you

a) play by the rules and possibly get that extra sack of American rice your minders promised?

b) start to complain and end up in some death camp together with your wife and kids?

-Archon-
07-21-2004, 05:14 PM
Thinking N. Korea isnt a real threat is stupid, and if you were a decision maker, it would be gross neglegence.

Absolutely true, when US soldiers came upon positions overrun by the North Koreans, they found their fellow
soldiers with their hands bound behind their back with barbwire and shot in the back of the head. North
Korean soldiers are thoroughly indoctrinated and have “fire in the belly”. They won’t drop their weapons and
run at the site of American forces.

Regards,
Hist2004

That is probably a very true statement. Just watched a BBC documentary about NK. And it is terrible how hard everyone is indoctrinated. Many of them, if not most of them, believe that USA occupies SK... there were more terrible things they do in that country... :(

2Sheds_Jackson
07-21-2004, 06:33 PM
Who exactly is this author, and what is the "Center for Korean Affairs"? I got as far as;


When the US plane reached a point about 193 km from the coast of North Korea, two MiG-29 and two MiG-21 fighter planes showed up unexpectedly. The North Korean planes approached within 16 m and signaled the US plane to follow them. The US pilot refused to follow the command and left the scene posthaste. The US plane was tailed by the hostiles for about 22 min but let the US spy plane go. There are two key points to be observed here.

First, the hostile planes waited for the US plane at the Uhrang airbase, located about 200 km from the point of air encounter. They knew that the US plane was coming. The North Korean planes flew 200 km to intercept the US plane. Did the US plane see them coming? If it did, why no evasive action? After intercepting the US plane, the hostile planes dogged it for 22 min. Why no American planes for the rescue? The US crew must have informed the base of the danger they were in, but no action was taken by the base. If Kim Jong Il had given the command, the MiGs would have shot down the US plane and returned to their base before the US could have scrambled war planes

This man is vividly illustrating his ignorance. As a guy who used to be involved in such things, I can tell you the conclusions that this guy is drawing are completely BS. He supposes that RCs operate under some mythical US fighter umbrella? Since when? That the RC is going to take "evasive action" against a handful of Migs? This happens all the time, and in fact, it's expected. One of the things they do it for is to gauge enemy fighter responses. And I see the heroic North Korean aviators "let" the RC go. rofl

I'm sorry - but to open an analysis with such politically driven garbage destroys any credibility for me. I bet the "Center for Korean Affairs" gets weekly checks signed by the Dear Leader every week.

garyfanclub
07-22-2004, 08:22 AM
Mig-21s against F-15s? Are you kidding me? That's like a pigeon against an…eagle.

T-62 against M-1s? Are you kidding me? They can't even move and shoot at the same time.

We would still be able to pick off their SAMs one by one. It's called F-117 or B-2 to take out their Fan Songs and Barlocks. Then let the B-52s roll in with 16 JDAMs that can each choose a different target. Not to mention Apaches can finally attack tanks instead of guerillas in buildings. We've got the Joint Standoff Weapon to clear out swaths of tanks, and all those nasty goodies.

The problem is, is that there's so many of them.

2 Words...

DAISY CUTTER!

Hellman109
07-22-2004, 09:40 AM
Uh, simple question to Hellman 109:

You are dirt poor in a f**ked up paranoid dictatorship. Over the years you have had neighbours and friends disappear into the gulag or executed for the slightest criticism of the regime. Now, one day you get a "foreign journalist" coming to your house, and of course the security people have been there to prepare you for the encounter. "Remember you are representing the PRK..." , "Don't dishonor our country or "Dear Leader"...". Actually you are not sure what the interview is all about. Is it a reliability test organized by the security services or is this guy a real journalist?

Now: Do you

a) play by the rules and possibly get that extra sack of American rice your minders promised?

b) start to complain and end up in some death camp together with your wife and kids?

Here's another way to look at it:

Walk upto a marine, any marine. Say that what he fights for is fake and he should defect to an enemy. Do you think he'll go "nah, Im gonna stay here"... or more like "Im gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss in your dead skull".

It's thd same sort of thing, right or wrong the beliefs, there deeply ingrained in the person, no matter what anyone says there beliefs arent changing anytime soon.

ALso you can tell when someone fakes anger, he clearly wasnt.


They were real journalists, they were American journalists and they were trying to push to get as much as they could (they annoyed there handlers a number of times, they also seemed pretty pissed, but more under control)

Identity31690
07-22-2004, 10:52 AM
The retard never touched on the Phalanx defense systems mounted on the carriers. They are more than capable of defending themselves from their wannabe anti-ship missiles. In addition, there are always more than one Aegis protecting a carrier.

Trigger
07-22-2004, 05:08 PM
North Korean pilots are trained to hug the enemy planes so that air-to-air missiles cannot be used.

If there's one thing I can't stand, it's some guy faggin' me while I'm trying to dogfight... :lol:

"Eagle-One, stand by to engage..."
"Copy Eagle-Two"
"Eagle-One, Fi-...What the?...Eagle-One there's some guy in a flight suit hanging off my starboard wing!"
"Oh geeeze!...Eagle-One, you're going to have to complete the mission on your own. There's no way I can use my missiles now with this dude hugging them like that...."

WestCoastG's
07-24-2004, 10:19 PM
This is complete bull****. NK wouldnt kck our ass in a war. You squinted eyed bull****er said the M1 Abrams had a top speed of 55 kilometers an hour, my Janes 4th edtitions Armoured Vehicle book said the M1 can go 67.6 kmh, since you lied here why should i beleive the rest of your bull****? Saying everyman and women is ready to defend NK is bull****. a couple years back there was a famine where 2-3 million died. the 16 year olds in NK look like american 10 year olds, thats how malnourished they are. NK soldiers have to go around stealing food from the NK peasants cause their ****ty govt cant feed em, oh yeah they are really ****in motivated. The NK army uses T-34's, hahahahahahaha those were good tanks back in the 40's and 50's but not in 2004. Same goes for T-55 and T-62. The NK army has drastically downsized training missions with aircraft and the same for their patrols, they are running out of fuel. NK economy is gonna collapse in a couple of decades with such ****ty management. Where the **** do you get that NK has Nuclear capabilty? I have seen no proof that they have this capabilty. oh yeah ever heard of ROLLING THUNDER. NK would be a tough cookie to crack but they wouldnt come close to deafeting us. Reason their is a barrier seperating our countries called the Pacific ocean. How many SOF troops can they transport across that, NONE. NK might beat us in a couple of battles but if they did they would awaken a sleeping giant like japan did in 1941, We would come back and ****in kill all of them.

WestCoastG's
07-24-2004, 10:23 PM
If their so ****in capable why dont they attack us and tanke over South Korea while were in Iraq?

Hellman109
07-25-2004, 03:43 AM
If their so f*** capable why dont they attack us and tanke over South Korea while were in Iraq?

They would win many battles but lose the war.

There is no way that NK can defeat the US in open war, but they can cause tens of millins of deaths and destroy large areas.


For a comment above, the US think they might have a nuke, oh but they must be lying too, cause you dont want to believe it.

They sell off there missles and make a bucketlaod, not enough to support the whole country, but they make allot off of them. Most of there budget is defense.

2RHPZ
07-26-2004, 05:47 AM
North Korea has been laying 80 new tunnels

JULY 07, 2004 22:06
by Ho-Won Choi (bestiger@donga.com)

The Ministry of National Defense said in its “Report on the business of national defense” presented to the Committee of State Securitiy on July 7 that North Korea has been laying 80 new tunnels and reinforcing the camouflage of its army bases after the Iraq war in March 2003. It analyzed that the increase in tunnels is a prepatory response to the precision bombing strikes launched about 800 times a day by stealth fighters of U.S. army during the Iraq war.

An informed source of army said, “Due to the current disposition of stealth aircraft (about 10) in South Korea, it is likely that the North Korean trend of building positions will be intensified all the more,” and added, “But in case of an emergency in the Korean peninsula, the U.S. army can destroy the North’s nuclear establishments and the field-gun and missile bases of North Korea in a day.”

The Ministry of National Defense also stated that North Korea is focusing investment on conventional weapons and strategic weapons, despite its serious financial difficulties in the recent years

The North is improving the precision and the targeting of about 400 artillery tubes of 240mm in the neighborhood of the truce line, targeting the metropolitan area of South and also making progress in quality reform on about 40 armored vehicles named “Chunmaho” (an imitation of Russia’s T-62 armored vehicle) deployed in their front-line units.

In addition, through missile engine tests, North is planning on producing medium-range ballistic missiles and making submarines similar to the one that infiltrated off the coast of Gangreung, Gangwon in 1996.

The Ministry of National Defense predicted that, “Since North Korea appointed next year to be “the First Year of Withdrawal of the U.S Forces in Korea,” it will try to develop conflicts between South Korea and U.S. and to weaken the security awareness of the people through intensification of pro-North Korean influences within the South.

Meanwhile, National Defense Minister Cho Young-gil reported to the Committee of State Security that, “Based on the productive results at the South-North generals-level meeting, such as the preventive measure of accidental armed conflict on the West coast, we’ll customize the working-level talks and endeavor to promote the second South-North national defense summit-level meeting suspended after September 2000.”

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070865558


Translated for North Korean intel OSINT operators who are not fluent on English ;)
JULY 07, 2004 22:06
최호원 (bestiger@donga.com)

국방부는 7일 국회 국방위원회에 제출한 국방업무보고 자료에서 북한이 지난해 3월 이라크전쟁 이후 80여개의 갱도진지를 새로 만들고 있으며 군사기지의 위장도 강화했다고 밝혔다. 갱도진지 증설은 이라크전쟁 당시 미군이 스텔스 전폭기 등으로 하루 800여회의 정밀폭격을 가했던 점을 고려해 대비 차원에서 진행하고 있는 것으로 분석된다.

군 소식통은 최근 스텔스 전폭기 대대(10여대)의 한국 배치 때문에 북한의 진지구축 움직임이 한층 강화될 가능성이 있다며 그러나 미군은 한반도 유사 시 북한의 핵시설과 야포미사일 기지를 하루 만에 완전히 무력화시킬 수 있다고 말했다.

국방부는 또 북한이 최근 심각한 경제난에도 불구하고 재래식 무기와 전략 무기에 대한 투자에 매달리고 있다고 밝혔다.

북한은 남한 수도권을 겨냥한 휴전선 일대 240mm 방사포 400여문의 정확성과 사거리를 개량하고 있으며, 전방부대에 배치된 전차 천마호(러시아 T-62전차를 모방) 40여대의 성능 개량사업도 진행 중이다.

또 미사일 엔진시험 등을 통해 신형 중거리탄도미사일의 생산 배치를 추진하고 있으며, 96년 강원 강릉시 앞바다로 침투했던 상어급 잠수함(당시 25명 탑승)도 계속 만들고 있다.

국방부는 북한이 내년을 주한미군 철수 원년의 해로 정한 만큼 앞으로 한미 양국간 갈등을 획책하고, 남한 내 친북세력 강화를 통해 국민의 안보의식을 약화시키려 할 것이라고 전망했다.

한편 조영길 국방부 장관은 남북 장성급회담에서 이뤄낸 서해상 우발적 무력충돌 방지책 등의 성과를 바탕으로 실무회담을 정례화하고, 2000년 9월 이후 중단된 제2차 남북국방장관회담을 추진하기 위해 노력할 것이라고 국방위에 보고했다.

cold0
07-26-2004, 07:46 AM
The Air fighter portion of article is pure rubbish, Mig-21 "Flying coffins" have one of the worst dogfight ratios in Jet fighting history. Don't get me started on the Mig-19, its from the 50's for gods sake. Saying a Mig is better than an F-15 just because it is lighter and shorter is just plain out retarded.

I agree. The all aviation subject and the fighter comparisons are total BS. Even the coparison between the Abrams and the NK tank is risible at best.

Even the part that portraits the NK SAMs as advanced weapons is another colossal bull****; they just have vintages of SAM russian missiles of '60- 70? era.

More realistic is the part about the NK Special Force and artillery.

WestCoastG's
07-27-2004, 11:57 AM
Since NK SOF are numbered around 120000 what makes them so damn special if there is that many? How do they compare to the US Navy Seals or the SAS?

hist2004
07-27-2004, 02:38 PM
Since NK SOF are numbered around 120000 what makes them so damn special if there is that many? How do they compare to the US Navy Seals or the SAS?

North Korea actually refers to their SOF as “special purpose forces”. What makes them “special” is there
selection, training, “indoctrination” and ability to conduct both conventional and unconventional warfare.
The units are made of “light Infantry brigades”, airborne Brigades, airborne sniper & amphibious sniper
brigades and battalions. Additionally there are the Reconnaissance Bureau Personnel, considered to be
the elite of these forces. The reason there is so much concern about these forces is there ability to create
havoc in the “rear-area” of South Korean & American military structure and in particular the South Korean
civilian areas. The US Navy Seals are about 2500 strong, the SAS has a max of about 250 personnel. Although
well trained these units wouldn’t be available in “real time” should North Korea suddenly strike. It would take
time to mobilize and transport these forces to Korea, by then chaos would be in full bloom. One on one comparison,
would probably be with the Reconnaissance Bureau personnel with the light Infantry brigades and airborne brigades
probably comparable to the US Army Rangers, British Para’s & Royal Marines. A difference that can’t be compared is
the attitude towards failure of mission. Western armies aren’t trained or indoctrinated to fight to the death or to
commit suicide if a mission fails. North Korean infiltrators know that if they fail and are captured, their families will
be stripped of all land, wealth and social standing and put in labor camps.

Regards,
Hist2004

duck
07-27-2004, 02:56 PM
One factor that should not be forgotten are the South Korean Special Forces brigades and airborne units. Everyone serving in them has volunteered and is likely to be fiercely patriotic and mentally prepared to fight any PRK onslaught. There is a strong conservative movement in South Korea that is not giving in to appeasement towards the Kim dictatorship and the soldiers in these units are more likely than not to have this mindset. They would be tasked to fight the North's commandos with the help of local defence units and ROK/USAAF CAS.