Blackwater ambushers are gonna skate

[G36]

The Marines didn't get 'em, handed the Iraqi "security" force in Fallujah the list of the 25 guys' names and said arrest 'em.
That didn't happen.
Now, the new Iraqi government is going to give insurgents amnesty.
So we missed the chance to get these guys.

[szr]

amnesty is only being offered to 'low-level' insurgents "who don't have blood on their hands."

[vikingblade]

how exactly are they gonna prove whos got blood on their hands?

the whole falluja thing has been screwed since we pulled out. i still cant comprehend how we know where the worst of the worst insurgents are coming from, yet we dont move on them. droping a bomb on a supposed safehouse in a hope that it nails zarqawi(doesnt deserve my effort to spell name correctly) isnt gonna fix this problem.

[Liquid]

And worst of all the attackers were acting like any other insurgent cell.They persued the contractors ride,fired at it and were gone long before the mob comited the act of barbarism-I`ve seen the censored video at CNN ant there was absolutley no armed men in the afterwards scenes.

[cqbrdy]

i very likely doubt, that if we knew where these guys were,
we would let the iraqis do this.

lets just wait and see, shall we...

[mobster]

From what I understand, the idea is to let the little guys flip on the big guys, after all, they're mostly helping them due to either $$ or threats. Once they flip the radicals, they win both ways, they'll get coalition rewards, and won't have the bad guys to contend with anymore. Both hands are clean. It's like the radicals who are hunting the radicals. You can bet your ass Rummy will be in touch offering any assistance possible while maintianing a neutral approach.
Either way G36, goospeed my friend. We're with you bro.

[2RHPZ]

Iraq Group Says Behind Falluja Contractor Killings

Thu Jul 8, 2004 11:43 AM ET

By Edmund Blair

BAGHDAD (*******) - A group calling itself the Islamic Army in Iraq said in a tape obtained on Thursday its gunmen killed four U.S. contractors in March, but left before the bodies were burned and dragged through Falluja's streets.

Guerrillas ambushed four men who worked for private U.S. security firm Blackwater USA on March 31 as they drove through Falluja, a hotbed of insurgency against U.S. forces.

A mob then burned the victims and dragged their mutilated bodies through the streets.

The March 31 killings shocked Americans. The U.S. military pledged to bring the gunmen to justice.

Shortly after the attack, a leaflet distributed in Falluja said it was the work of another group that was responding to Israel's assassination of Palestinian Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin earlier in March.

The new tape appeared to be the first claim with footage from the ambush scene in the town 32 miles west of Baghdad.

A masked insurgent said in the video the Islamic Army intelligence unit found out the U.S. contractors, whom he described as "elements from the CIA," were going to pass through Falluja to a meeting in the nearby Habbaniya base.

"The head of the brigade ordered us to prepare to kill these thugs," an insurgent, wearing a black mask revealing only his eyes, said in a distorted voice.

The group chose the central traffic lights on the main street for the ambush so traffic would prevent any escape, he said in the tape which showed an aerial photograph with a red ring around the ambush site.

Before the ambush, the insurgent said he and his companions drank tea at a nearby cafe as they waited.

"We reached the last car, and killed those inside," he said in the tape, which showed shaky footage of two bloodied bodies wearing civilian clothes in a four-wheel drive vehicle.

One victim was slumped sideways in the driver's seat. A second was collapsed back on the seat, with a large wound in the side of his head. An Iraqi was shown taking his gun. In the background, car horns blasted and some shouted "God is great."

"The driver of the first car fled in the opposite direction ... but he was not able to escape because our heroic mujahideen ... seized him and killed the driver of the other car, thank God, who gave us victory," he said.

He said the gunmen withdrew after seizing belongings of the U.S. contractors. "People from Falluja came ... and burned the car and whoever was inside," he said in the video that also showed seized rounds, weapons and a Blackwater headed document.

Blackwater specializes in close protection and security and employs many former Special Forces operatives.

"We will continue this way to victory or martyrdom," the insurgent said of the shooting.

Contemporary accounts of the attack said a crowd of Iraqis cheered as the victims' bodies were burned and then dragged through the streets. Two of the mutilated bodies were then strung up under a bridge in the middle of town.

In May, U.S. forces handed a list of 25 suspects in the killings to Iraqi police.

The video tape carried footage of other insurgent attacks including mortar attacks and ambushes with rocket propelled grenades on military convoys. The timing and sites of those images were not clear, but some footage was several months old.

[snake]

Yeah
Nice of them to video tape themselves

I have seen this tape

Stupid Terrorist

snake

[DPGLAW]

Correct me if Im wrong but I remember reading, I think on this site, that they were going to try and track down the terrorists that did this by analyzing the videos tht were taken, and as I remember it, there was plenty of footage of the attack.. Has anyone read that this was unsuccessful or not?? I ask cause the people that did this need to literally burn at the stake for what they did and as im sure it is for everyone else, it is very upsetting for me to see these cold-blooded killers skate.

[Far]

I think we should grab those dudes who did the burning and the dragging...IMO, there are just as guilty. UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS.

[usa320]

I agree. We shoulda came down on these scumb bags like a bucket of bricks.

[OB Kenobi]

Excuses, excuses. The reason why Fallujah wasn't attacked was because Bu$h's poll ratings were in a nosedive after all those US casualties. He chose to negotiate. Another mistake, as you all have stated by your very own admissions.

Bu$h has ****ed up this "war" at every turn for similar reasons. It is a political war, not a real war, and those tend to end in disaster. Take casualties and you look bad, kill civilians and you look bad, impose martial law and you look bad. You're pretty much damned no matter what you try to do, and that is because you went in their making false claims:

1. The Iraqis wanted our help. No they did not. *Some* of them wanted Saddam gone, period. None of them wanted the US to tell them what to do, and many didn't want the US to stay AT ALL.

2. The Iraqis want Democracy. They don't give a damn about Democracy, they'd rather have stability and prosperity.

3. WMD. What WMD!? America winds up looking like the criminal.

4. Al Qaeda. Yeah, thanks to Bu$h Al Qaeda is all over the place now. America winds up looking like the criminal.

5. This will all be a cakewalk. Over a year later and casualty rates are as high, if not higher than the initial invasion. Things aren't getting better:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040708_2974.html
http://icasualties.org/oif/

See that list at icasualties? About to break 1,000 dead. That's not including Afghanistan, spec ops, etc. Add 5,000-10,000 casualties and you can see why some politicians are considering a draft.

So, you armchair patriots ready to head over to Iraq?

[Jack Mehoff]

Excuses, excuses. The reason why Fallujah wasn't attacked was because Bu$h's poll ratings were in a nosedive after all those US casualties. He chose to negotiate. Another mistake, as you all have stated by your very own admissions.

Bu$h has f*** up this "war" at every turn for similar reasons. It is a political war, not a real war, and those tend to end in disaster. Take casualties and you look bad, kill civilians and you look bad, impose martial law and you look bad. You're pretty much damned no matter what you try to do, and that is because you went in their making false claims:

1. The Iraqis wanted our help. No they did not. *Some* of them wanted Saddam gone, period. None of them wanted the US to tell them what to do, and many didn't want the US to stay AT ALL.

2. The Iraqis want Democracy. They don't give a damn about Democracy, they'd rather have stability and prosperity.

3. WMD. What WMD!? America winds up looking like the criminal.

4. Al Qaeda. Yeah, thanks to Bu$h Al Qaeda is all over the place now. America winds up looking like the criminal.

5. This will all be a cakewalk. Over a year later and casualty rates are as high, if not higher than the initial invasion. Things aren't getting better:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040708_2974.html
http://icasualties.org/oif/

See that list at icasualties? About to break 1,000 dead. That's not including Afghanistan, spec ops, etc. Add 5,000-10,000 casualties and you can see why some politicians are considering a draft.

So, you armchair patriots ready to head over to Iraq?

Using the same logic, are you ready to head over to Iraq to fight with the insurgents? I'll volunteer for one year tour in Iraq with 1/148FA if you do.

[ctcboy]

The Marines pulled out of Falujah becasue the number of civilian casualties wasnt plsyoing well in the Atrab media, They choose to try another option in the form of the Iraqi force that took over for them.
This may or may not have been a good idea. In the end though it had more to do with Arab public opinion than Bush's ratings at home. Beyond that after what happened to those contractors it might have helped Bush's ratings if he had had the Marines level Falujah to get those responsible.

[Ratamacue]

The Marines pulled out of Fallujah because they were told to. If you ask me, they probably would have been able to retake the entire city in a total assault with minimal civilian casualties. They manged to do it in a smaller town outside Fallujah earlier in the year. But alas, the move they made was a wiser decision from a diplomatic point of view.

[szr]

When the Marines pulled back from Fallujah, they had killed some 600+ Iraqis while having lost less than 10 (don't remember exact figure). The carnage was so one-sided that Iraqis from the region started forming huge convoys to bring emergency food, water and medical to Fallujah while other Arabs and Europe pleaded with the US to let-up on Fallujah. The Marines let up allow some of that aid go to the Iraqis. Then that 'Fallujah Brigade' showed up and volunteered to take over Fallujah security. Someone in Washington decided that Iraqis policing Iraqis would look better on Arab TV. I bet if whoever made that decision could have done it all over again, they would have just let the Marines do their thing.

It pisses me off when I hear some journalist saying that the Marines 'retreated' because the fighting was so tough :roll:

[aartamen]

WTF do they know anyhow.

[OB Kenobi]

The Marines pulled out of Fallujah because they were told to. If you ask me, they probably would have been able to retake the entire city in a total assault with minimal civilian casualties. They manged to do it in a smaller town outside Fallujah earlier in the year. But alas, the move they made was a wiser decision from a diplomatic point of view.

Small town... big town... THAT is exactly why they wouldn't be able to do it. Pretty easy to take a small town, but Fallujah with its maze of alleys, which btw are too small to allow any heavy vehicles, is a deathtrap. They'd have to send in the infantry, without support, it would just be a bloodbath.

Yes, you could flatten the whole thing with bombs, but then you'd have all those civilian casualties.

[American Patriot]

It could be done IMO. Remember that the USMC is not the incompetant Russian forces in 1994 (where they faced a similar situation.)

[Ratamacue]

The Marines pulled out of Fallujah because they were told to. If you ask me, they probably would have been able to retake the entire city in a total assault with minimal civilian casualties. They manged to do it in a smaller town outside Fallujah earlier in the year. But alas, the move they made was a wiser decision from a diplomatic point of view.

Small town... big town... THAT is exactly why they wouldn't be able to do it. Pretty easy to take a small town, but Fallujah with its maze of alleys, which btw are too small to allow any heavy vehicles, is a deathtrap. They'd have to send in the infantry, without support, it would just be a bloodbath.

Yes, you could flatten the whole thing with bombs, but then you'd have all those civilian casualties.
You underestimate the capability of US troops. Maybe that was a smaller town they took, but it was no cakewalk. That town was the same: a maze of tiny alleys. They went in without any armor support, and took it in true house-to-house fighting. Going in without armor doesn't make it a "bloodbath," it simply requires a shift in tactics.

[OB Kenobi]

You underestimate the capability of US troops. Maybe that was a smaller town they took, but it was no cakewalk. That town was the same: a maze of tiny alleys. They went in without any armor support, and took it in true house-to-house fighting. Going in without armor doesn't make it a "bloodbath," it simply requires a shift in tactics.

Shift in tactics to what? A siege?

It's obvious US troops would have eventually taken the city, but the question is would the cost be worth it?

[Ratamacue]

You underestimate the capability of US troops. Maybe that was a smaller town they took, but it was no cakewalk. That town was the same: a maze of tiny alleys. They went in without any armor support, and took it in true house-to-house fighting. Going in without armor doesn't make it a "bloodbath," it simply requires a shift in tactics.
Shift in tactics to what? A siege?

It's obvious US troops would have eventually taken the city, but the question is would the cost be worth it?
The Marines' tactics in cities during the ground assault were to bring their tanks and LAV's forward with infantry behind them. Armor took care of most of the resistance they faced. When they had to go down alleys where armor could not fit, tanks would enter a position to support the infantry going down the alley. In the case of Fallujah, there are areas where tanks are perfectly capable of traveling and fighting. However, for smaller areas, the tactics shift from infantry-escorting-armor to armor-escorting infantry. My point is that the cost wouldn't have been as high as it is potrayed to likely be. Yes, the city is overrun with militants and is very claustrophobic urban terrain. However, the Marines have several distinct advantages: technology, firepower, fighting prowess, and most of all, training. But whatever, I doubt that it's possible to make you reconsider anything.

[DPGLAW]

If the Iraqi's are stupid enough to give these murders amnesty. Hopefully they are not among the terrorists eligible for amnesty, none should be eligible, but especially them. If they are eligble than we (The United States) should use one of our Special Mission Units, like Delta, NSWDG,e tc. to assisinate each and every one. Just like Golda Mier did with the killers or the Israeli athletes. It's the right thing to do, and if we can't find any of them than I say to kidnap their family and threaten to kill them if they don't turn themselves in, if they dont than we follow through on our threats and kill their familes very violently and gruesomely so that they all understand very clearly that if they harm any US citizen than they or their family (if they are too coward to turn themselves in) will die a painful death

[DPGLAW]

what I think we should do what Ruiia did to Grozny. Surround the city and level it with tanks, artillery, MRLS Rockets, airsirikes, and SF doing house to house searches. We just kill every living thing; every man, women, child, everyone. even those though do not fight give their tacit approval. we should use napalm, Willie P's, and everything to firemomb them...I say this because what i really want to see used by the US is teh MOAB or a tacnuke...that would do the trick and it would put the fear of god into these people that whenever they hurt an american............they will fell the wrath of an unmerciless god, which they deserve- not just them, but their families and everyone that is breathing.

[Ratamacue]

what I think we should do what Ruiia did to Grozny.
And I think you should shut the f*ck up before you contaminate the entire forum with your bull****.

[ctcboy]

When you fight monsters you have to be careful not to become a monster yourself.

[Secret Squirrel]

If the Iraqi's are stupid enough to give these murders amnesty. Hopefully they are not among the terrorists eligible for amnesty, none should be eligible, but especially them. If they are eligble than we (The United States) should use one of our Special Mission Units, like Delta, NSWDG,e tc. to assisinate each and every one. Just like Golda Mier did with the killers or the Israeli athletes. It's the right thing to do, and if we can't find any of them than I say to kidnap their family and threaten to kill them if they don't turn themselves in, if they dont than we follow through on our threats and kill their familes very violently and gruesomely so that they all understand very clearly that if they harm any US citizen than they or their family (if they are too coward to turn themselves in) will die a painful death


what I think we should do what Ruiia did to Grozny. Surround the city and level it with tanks, artillery, MRLS Rockets, airsirikes, and SF doing house to house searches. We just kill every living thing; every man, women, child, everyone. even those though do not fight give their tacit approval. we should use napalm, Willie P's, and everything to firemomb them...I say this because what i really want to see used by the US is teh MOAB or a tacnuke...that would do the trick and it would put the fear of god into these people that whenever they hurt an american............they will fell the wrath of an unmerciless god, which they deserve- not just them, but their families and everyone that is breathing.

You should probably bring this kind of stuff up with your shrink. woot

[Hydro]

Tommy Franks better watch his back, DPGLAW's gonna have his job.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

DPGLAW put down the glass pipe before posting.

[Ratamacue]

Such an angry young child DPGLAW is.

[Tane Angle]

Good points about Fallujah, Ratamacue. The Marines very quickly adjusted and were able to wage a relatively successful battle, despite the terrain. Particularly impressive (though not surprising, considering they're the Marines) was the use of snipers.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...