Communist Countrys

[scm77]

Help me settle a debate with a dumbass teacher of mine. She says that the USSR was the last communist country, and that there are no communist countrys in the world.

I say China, North Korea and Cuba and others are communist and Iraq was until last year. He says no. :cantbeli:

Who's right?

[b.scheller]

Iraq wasn't really a communist country, more or less a fascist dictatorship.

[Fintin]

all of them are commi sept iraq...it was a dictatorship

[Operation Ivy]

wow ur teacher seems pretty dumb

[Secret Squirrel]

were you discussing Fukuyama?

The world's five remaining Communist states are the People's Republic of China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba, and Laos. The experiences of these five states have starkly diverged since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991. On one hand, Cuba and North Korea were hit hard by the collapse of Soviet and Eastern bloc economic assistance, trade, and military support. On the other hand, the world's three other remaining Communist states, all in East Asia, were far less dependent on Soviet subsidies (and in China's case, not at all, given the Sino-Soviet Split) at the time of the collapse of the Soviet bloc.

Following the lead of China under Deng Xiaoping, Vietnam and Laos have moved away from Soviet-style centralized planning in favor of market socialism. The ruling Communist parties of China, Vietnam, and Laos argue that a planned economy is not synonymous to socialism, thus maintaining their rationale for Communist Party-rule. For the past two decades, China and Vietnam have been sustaining among the highest rates of economic growth in the world.

In the early 21st century, some thinkers have seen the prospect of communism emerges from a different direction. The economic and technological development have always been seen by Soviet communist party as the primary prerequisite to building communism, with the neverending striving for more tractors produced, more coal mined and more engineers trained. In the final decade of the Soviet Union existence a number of Soviet scholars have developed theories describing how communism would develop as we gradually turn the nature itself into the means of production.

This vision, not unlike the vision of the modern nanotechnology proponents, is slowly coming to fruition. While the majority of Western economists and politicians follow Fukuyama in the belief that capitalism will endure forever, or they simply do not have any theories spanning beyond it, some paint a vision not unlike the one described by Marx. In a particular well-publicised example, Marshall Brain, a renowned web entrepreneur, described in his book Manna [1] (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm) a world, built with the help of robotics technology, that fits the classic definition of communism perfectly. Shy of the word "communism" itself because of its negative connotations in the United States, some authors today actually describe how it will be built in the 21st century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

(take this for what you will).

Ask your teacher to define communism because i think you're ideas may be clashing over your definitions.

[Falco]

Help me settle a debate with a dumbass teacher of mine. She says that the USSR was the last communist country, and that there are no communist countrys in the world.

I say China, North Korea and Cuba and others are communist and Iraq was until last year. He says no. :cantbeli:

Who's right?

Isn't cuba socialist? You could add Vietnam to the list.

[Cactuar]

I believe China has become what you would call 'Market Socialist'. North Korea is more of a dictatorship, but I'd say Cuba and to a degree Vietnam is socialist. Not sure where I'd fit Moldova.

Anyways that's what I think.

[b.scheller]

Belarus is not far from becoming a full dictatorship again.

[SpazzMunky]

Some people would argue that there has never been a true communist or marxist state, since evolve rather quickly into a dictatorship that oppreses everybody except the ruling class. (True communism is supposed to prevent this.)

[Kilgor]

Thats because communism has never worked, and never will work.

Because it quickly allows dictators and a police state to thrive.

[xjym2002]

Please define communism first.

North Korea is a medieval monarchy.

China is 2/3 capitalism, 1/3 corrupted bureaucracy.

Vietnam is similar to China now, half-capitalism, but I'm not sure what the other half is.

I know nothing about Cuba except Castro the name.

[Lt_Crooks]

i tell you what . tommorow when you you go to school show the teacher the poll on this thread, then grab the nearest book and spank her with it , and say " you have been very very naughty" (make sure no one is in the class room at the time) then take her into the janitors closet and shagg her woot then come back and tell us about it

[Mark Sman]

Then the results of the poll will truly be in. Problem is his teacher is a dude.

[rawkitheart]

I believe China has become what you would call 'Market Socialist'. North Korea is more of a dictatorship, but I'd say Cuba and to a degree Vietnam is socialist. Not sure where I'd fit Moldova.

Anyways that's what I think.

moldova communist? really?

yeah, i mean i guess your teacher is either really stupid or just being very technical, because if you really looked at the fine print, those countries aren't really text book communist countries, assuming there ever were any.

however, as far as practically speaking, you're right in saying that there are some left. cuba, vietnam, north korea, china, whatever.

[fdt]

Please define communism first.

North Korea is a medieval monarchy.

China is 2/3 capitalism, 1/3 corrupted bureaucracy.

Vietnam is similar to China now, half-capitalism, but I'm not sure what the other half is.

I know nothing about Cuba except Castro the name.Problem is that there is no and never was ONE definition of communist country. Even in times when Soviet Union was at peak of it's strenght the system employed there was different from systems in other communist (socialist as they called this) states. Theory of communism has even worked out a concept explaining those differences that was called "real socialism". The differences were supposed to be caused by each individual country's "capitalist heritage", things of the past that were so deeply rooted in tradition, social behaviour that had to be taken under consideration by communist rulers. For example in Poland Communists have allowed the private ownership of arable grounds, what was not allowed in any other commiebloc country. There were many of such detailed differences in variuous aspects of life as religion (and the state's approach to it), traveling abroad (as Poland had a great deal of emmigrants living in "capitalist" countries the policy was softer to allow families to contact, in contrast in SU and GDR individual traveling to West was virtually forbidden).
So then "real socialism" was accepting some differences. China was always a special case. The differences in this country were always a problem for the commie theoretics. China has come to communism straight from feudalism. Many feature of feudalism could easily be employed to commie practice. The 1949 revolution has simply changed (in some life aspects, especially those connected with ruling and power) the people not the methods and institutions. The biggest change of 1949 was the authorities approach to private property and wealth. As based on wide masses of poor peasants (who never had any significant properties) the state has virtually abolished the private property. All production means (machines, land etc) were nationalised. People could only work in a state owned enterprises and communes. Any private property (except for personal belongings) was virtually forbidden. What was the power system? It was sort of a Imperial China had before. One ruler (like Emperor) his loyal party (like Chinese nobility) that was ideologically (ideology of one divine Empire) controlling all aspects of life - military, economy, everyday's life.... and at the end the people that in commie and imperial China were treated as a dark mass. Some analogies to mafia style of rule (will of ruler always prevailed over any laws).Communist China has exterminated one very important group of society - private enterpreneurs and merchantmen. Those were considered as dangerous ones. The system was affraid of them, because they were rooted in different system that was hostile to communism... and they had resources to resist communists. Those reasons were a cause why communists have expelled, killed or robbed all chinese "middle class".

The Deng's "crawling revolution" has changed one thing from the Mao's era. Deng allowed the restoration of the middle class. The ruler said (again will of the ruler not the rules and laws) "Work and get rich"... but... do it as party says. This new middle class were roughly 2 types of people: 1) those of communist party (loyal to Party and system), and 2) those minor enterpreneurs who were subjected to the rule of local low and middle level Party officers (whose job is to control the enterpreneurs' political loyalty.... and make'em to contribute some bribes of course). This new "gentry" or "middle class" has not ideologically wrong roots anymore. Those are people from within the system, so far controllable by Party. From top to bottom the Chinese capitalism is controllable:
- foreign investors won't comply the political system as long as they are allowed to exploit the cheap chinese labor,
- Party big capitalists are own loyal system's people (but they try to influence the policy within Party)
- Small enterpreneurs are controlled by Party officials of low rank

In army the purely communist agitation has been replaced currently by a mixture of the communist BS and (growing) rate of the nationalist propaganda. One way or another it's still a Party that controlls it with a different mix of words but the same methods.

Press, media are controlled too, but this control is less visible. It's not employed directly via laws... no. It's rather done via facto. It is million ways to persuade people to shut their mouth when they have smth to loose (job, money, property)... and Party does that... with no presence of foreign press.

How do one call such a system? Hard to say, but it still has few visible features:

- It's a One Party controlled State. The control is not direct in every aspect of life (because there is no such need) but it exists everywhere.

- It's a country of rulers not rules. No reign of law in western categories.

- Looooong lasting and still strong culture of group interest that always prevails over individual's interest and rights (cultural cause of the HR violation).

To make myself clear. I am not saying that PRC is not moving in right direction. Today's situation is there faaaar better than 20 yrs ago. I am also not claiming that Chinese are not capable to democracy (more or less western style) because example of Taiwan proves opposite. I am hoping that PRC will follow Taiwan's example (where democracy is also a new thing after the Kuomintang rules)... then there will be no causes of the crosschannel tensions and then thgere will be a real "One China".

Current PRC policy of sabre rattling, the rules of Communist Party (the modern ways and methods but old aim to keep the power at any cost) IMHO create a new form of communism (maybe not so new, as it was NEP in Lenin's Russia in 1920's)... Chinese Communism (sort of system where Communist concept of total power is converged with some capitalist methods in economy and communist ideology is exchanged to nationalist one). For some it may look like it's not communism anymore... but it's a matter of opinion.

[RoBBo]

lao (sp?) is commy.

[mack pl]

lao (sp?) is commy.

Im guessing yes.

http://www.laoembassy.com/

[martinexsquaddie]

marxist theory was ment the skilled prolaterant would rise up and take over in revolution.
Unfortunatly the first and biggest revolution was in a backward tyranny so the whole idea rapidly soured with in years of the first revoultion :(
Mind you Capatalism has'nt worked brilliantly there either.
for any system to work well you need checks and balances a free press respect for law and order an independant and uncorrupt judicary :|
.
without any of those you are heading for failure

[Colt45]

Edit your opening post to be as nice and sympathetic, then show him the post and make him feel like a dumbass ;).

[henksmoeder]

Thats because communism has never worked, and never will work.

Because it quickly allows dictators and a police state to thrive.

Well, says who. The US (at least some parts) is definatly a police state. Curfews for teens, the patriot act that grants the FBI acces to every home, and much more.


Help me settle a debate with a dumbass teacher of mine. She says that the USSR was the last communist country, and that there are no communist countrys in the world.

I say China, North Korea and Cuba and others are communist and Iraq was until last year. He says no. :cantbeli:

Who's right?

rofl , Iraq a communist country? Sadam hated commies. Some thing he has in common with the US, the US even helped him because they feared the communist party in Iraq. Think before speaking plz.

[Kilgor]

Thats because communism has never worked, and never will work.

Because it quickly allows dictators and a police state to thrive.

Well, says who. The US (at least some parts) is definatly a police state. Curfews for teens, the patriot act that grants the FBI acces to every home, and much more.

.

Says the 100 million people that died under communism last century for a start.

The difference is, despite police powers at times US citizens can still vote out government officials... something that never happens in a communist country.

Iraq was never a communist country....

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

But him and his army were a fan of eastern bloc weapons were they not? ;)

[moughoun]

Iraq was an "Arab socialist" country like Egypt, Syria, Libiya, with a centally planned gov, dislike of fundamentalism and dictatorial power's for the ruling leader or leader's,but was not a communist Country like Vietnam

[J-10]

I am not clear what is communism. Chinese people just care for how to earn money to buy houses, cars, make trips, no one pay attention to ideology.

[UkrainianAmerican]

That teacher is a dumb ultra-liberal anti-anti-communist ****.