Israel to Turkey FM: If you want to visit Gaza, don't come here

[Snoshi]

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu's planned visit to Israel has been left in doubt after Jerusalem warned that he would not be allowed to enter the Gaza Strip from Israeli territory.

Davutoglu had been invited to take part in the Presidents' Conference, which is scheduled to take place in a few weeks in Jerusalem.

However, the recent warning and the tense relations between Israel and Turkey since Operation Cast Lead make it now unclear whether Davutoglu will make the trip.

Israeli officials' principal fear in regard to the visit is that if Davutoglu goes to Gaza, it will become a festive event for Hamas and it will become a media circus with the Turkish FM staying amidst the rubble of buildings destroyed by the IDF during Cast Lead. Officials suspect Davutoglu would also be encouraged to make anti-Israel statements.

Israel-Turkey relations have been tense since Cast Lead, especially in light of a televised fracasbetween President Shimon Peres and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the Davos Conference this past January.

Turkey adopted a critical stance on Israel and Erdogan maintained that Israel was carrying out genocide in the Gaza Strip. Since then, the two states have maintained diplomatic and military contacts but have not had any meetings between high-level officials.

Davutoglu was appointed foreign minister only recently, and has sought a role in future peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

A senior Israeli official said that over a month ago the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry contacted his Israeli counterpart Yossi Gal, and offered to arrange a visit by the Turkish foreign minister to Israel.

The Turkish official asked Gal about the possibility of a visit to Gaza and Gal told him that he would be welcomed warmly in Israel but that a visit to the Gaza Strip would "not be helpful".

A few weeks later, Turkish offices again tried to bring up the issue of a visit to Gaza and Turkey's Ambassador to Israel Namik Tan met with Gal and told him that Davutoglu received an invite to the Presidents' Conference in October and was weighing whether to attend. The Turkish ambassador asked if a trip to Gaza during that time would be possible.

The decision was later made in the Foreign Ministry that if the Turkish foreign minister's trip to Israel were to include a visit to the Gaza Strip, the request would have to be refused.

A top Israel official said "Turkish leadership during Operation Cast Lead did not encourage us to agree to this request."

Gal told the Turkish ambassador that "there are other places in the world from where it's possible to enter the Gaza Strip."

In the statement, Gal was implying that Egypt would be a possible point of entry to the Strip, but Israeli sources have said the Egyptian would not be inclined to allow the Turkish foreign minister to enter Gaza from their territory
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1113210.html

[ting]

I see that Israel is busy making enemies:roll:. Usually high officials are allowed into the Gaza strip. It will be interesting to see if he visits the President. Will he after this public rebuke? Time will tell.

[GB_FXST]

I see that Israel is busy making enemies:roll:. Usually high officials are allowed into the Gaza strip. It will be interesting to see if he visits the President. Will he after this public rebuke? Time will tell.

I think that Israel sending a firm message that Turkey must make a choice between Israel and the Palestinians.




… snip …

A top Israel official said "Turkish leadership during Operation Cast Lead did not encourage us to agree to this request."

… snip …



A certain amount of rhetoric for public consumption is one thing, but Edrogan’s rhetoric proved a little too much.




… snip …

Dissonant in this display of European unity was the fact that Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan could speak only in Egypt and not in Jerusalem. Erdogan's ardent backing of Hamas coupled with Iranian-type castigation of Israel, plus anti-Semitism inspired by his AKP party, has damaged Turkey's image as an aspirant for EU membership. Erdogan may have opted for leadership of the Muslim world, rather than a place in the EU.

… snip …



http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/inside_story_of_israels_succes.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/inside_story_of_israels_succes.html)

[thanamestolga]

I think that Israel sending a firm message that Turkey must make a choice between Israel and the Palestinians.

Well, ever thought to consider Turkey doesnt want to choose one over the other?

[Zeev]

Well, ever thought to consider Turkey doesnt want to choose one over the other?

I think that Turkey clearly made its choice during cast lead operation.

[thanamestolga]

I think that Turkey clearly made its choice during cast lead operation.

Erdoğan isnt Turkey, neither were the dark idiots that greeted him at the Airport...

[GB_FXST]

Well, ever thought to consider Turkey doesnt want to choose one over the other?

Sometimes circumstances require a choice. The rhetoric of earlier this year was not particularly diplomatic and is now bearing some bitter fruit. For now, a middle path does not appear to be an option.

I suspect that Turkey (and Edrogan) will need to tone down future rhetoric if they want to navigate the shoals that are Arab-Israeli politics without making an overt choice.

[Azatavrear]

This might get me in trouble with the Mods but in my opinion Turkey is trying to play good cop bad cop, but they don’t realize they are way outclassed by Israel.

[Isaac Kasabian]

Well, ever thought to consider Turkey doesnt want to choose one over the other?

Really? Imagine if Israel made a statement about Turkey incursion/fighting the PKK a "genocide" and asking for a free Kurdistan, I doubt you would be happy about it.

[thanamestolga]

Really? Imagine if Israel made a statement about Turkey incursion/fighting the PKK a "genocide" and asking for a free Kurdistan, I doubt you would be happy about it.

Who other than Erdoğan and the Arabs in Turkey said that Gaza was a 'genocide'? I for one support Israel in its corner, being a military man i understand IDF's position.

And you cant Compare the PKK with Hamas.

Hamas wants Israel off the map, PKK wants East Turkey. Two very different goals here imo. And the PKK has a safe haven, Hamas doesnt.

[Isaac Kasabian]

Who other than Erdoğan and the Arabs in Turkey said that Gaza was a 'genocide'? I for one support Israel in its corner, being a military man i understand IDF's position.

And you cant Compare the PKK with Hamas.

Hamas wants Israel off the map, PKK wants East Turkey. Two very different goals here imo. And the PKK has a safe haven, Hamas doesnt.

I believe you got me wrong. You said Turkey can be friend with both Israelis and "Palestinians" and I honestly believe it's simply not possible, or you are with one or against it. For example Israel clearly decided to be friend with Turkey not with Kurds, but if they said I want to be friends with both? would it be acceptable to Turks and Turkey? I Seriously doubt it. (Remind it's an example, doubt that Israelis are very fond of Kurds.)

Now yes it's true you can't compare both terrorist groups but hamas has global support not to mention every time there's a Cast Lead the world goes on an outrage and support for the "oppressed Palestinians" the same doesn't happen with Turkey and the pkk.

[BorisA]

The question is not Israel or the Palestinians but Peace between them or ongoing tensions.


but they don’t realize they are way outclassed by Israel. And in which way Turkey is outclassed? Israel is no threat to Turkey and vice versa. Even if Turkish-Israeli relations get even worse Turkey would never threaten the extistence of Israeli. The only, and i hope unlikely, scenario would be in my eyes the support of terrorist groups (or of the Kurds in northern Iraq by Israel and Hamas/Fatah etc. by Turkey).
But i think both countries have a great displeasure/rejection for this kind of support due to their proper terror struggles.

I am aware that a meeting with Hamas has its own quality but at least (and sadly) this fraction is democratically legimitated and next to Fatah one of the dialogue partners. Even a non-AKP government with less rhetoric insufficiency (or stupidity) could not close itself to talks with Hamas.

[Kaplanr]

Who other than Erdoğan and the Arabs in Turkey said that Gaza was a 'genocide'? I for one support Israel in its corner, being a military man i understand IDF's position.

And you cant Compare the PKK with Hamas.

Hamas wants Israel off the map, PKK wants East Turkey. Two very different goals here imo. And the PKK has a safe haven, Hamas doesnt.

Look, it isn't personal. Think of it this way; no Israeli leader (or anyone else for that matter) can say that Erdogan doesn't speak for the Turkish government. He was duly elected. Peres doesn't rebuke Netanyahu and Netanyahu doesn't disown Lieberman. Likewise, as long as he's the PM, Erdogan is Turkey the way Netanyahu is Israel.

[Azatavrear]

Look, it isn't personal. Think of it this way; no Israeli leader (or anyone else for that matter) can say that Erdogan doesn't speak for the Turkish government. He was duly elected. Peres doesn't rebuke Netanyahu and Netanyahu doesn't disown Lieberman. Likewise, as long as he's the PM, Erdogan is Turkey the way Netanyahu is Israel.

Cold facts there........you can't have your cake and eat it too as the saying goes thanamestolga. Elected Leaders represent their country down to their last citizen, like it or not.

[Derfeuermann]

Why bother with middle easterners? I think Turkey should distance itself from Israel and Palestinian issues and concentrate on less thorny issues like trade etc..
why bother with middle east and peoples' never dying fervor for a really small piece of land?
What good could come out of it? None...

[ting]

I think that Israel sending a firm message that Turkey must make a choice between Israel and the Palestinians.



A certain amount of rhetoric for public consumption is one thing, but Edrogan’s rhetoric proved a little too much.



http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/inside_story_of_israels_succes.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/inside_story_of_israels_succes.html)

Israel is sending a message that if you want to be a negotiator you have to do what we want. (that really means Israel does'nt want turkey negotiating)

I don't think this article you linked has much to do with reality. AFAIK Israel is currently the one in the dog house vs the EU.

[RoyB]

Erdogan represents Turkey, he had said some harsh words about Israel during 'Cast Lead', and should have thought about the consequences.
The ball is in Turkey's court now..

[Excalibur]

i can understand israelis why they don't want Erdogan style "You are killing people ..." show in Jerusalem.

[TurkishDefense]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRDHH8Zb2E

[the_Wicked]

Translation?

[ting]

Turkish FM cancels visit over Gaza row
By HERB KEINON
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu called off a planned trip to Israel because Jerusalem would not assist him in entering Israel via Gaza, a senior diplomatic official said on Tuesday night.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.
Photo: AP [file]
SLIDESHOW: Israel & Region | World

The official said the government's policy was not to hold meetings with diplomats who met in Gaza with Hamas leaders and then, during the same trip, wanted to hold talks with Israeli leaders.

"If they go directly from Gaza and meetings with Hamas to Jerusalem and meetings with Israeli leaders, it creates the impression that we are legitimizing those visits," said the official. "We have no intention of doing that."

Davutoglu's cancellation comes quickly on the heels of high-level meetings that were cancelled earlier this month with Norway's special envoy to the Middle East, John Hansen-Bauer, after Israel learned that he met Hamas head Khaled Mashaal in Damascus just before arriving.

According to Israeli sources, the Norwegians did not inform Israel of the meeting, something that infuriated officials here when they caught wind of it.

Turkey, Norway and Russia all have maintained contact with Hamas, despite the international Quartet's decision to have no contact with the organization until it recognizes Israel, forswears terrorism and accepts previous agreements.



In a related development, the Chinese news agency Xinhua reported from Gaza on Tuesday that a Norwegian security official visited Gaza recently and met Hamas leaders to talk about the issue of a prisoner exchange for kidnapped soldier Gilad Schalit.

Xinhua said the visit took place "last week" and "focused on the number of Palestinian prisoners that Israel would expel to some European countries including Norway."

One of the issues reportedly holding up a prisoner swap is Israel's demand that a number of the security prisoners it would release be deported, something Hamas has reportedly rejected.

It was not clear whether the Norwegian envoy's visit to Damascus and talks with Mashaal were connected to this proposal.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804523541&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I guess President Peres did not get any Turkish visitor.

[GB_FXST]

Israel is sending a message that if you want to be a negotiator you have to do what we want. (that really means Israel does'nt want turkey negotiating)

I don't think this article you linked has much to do with reality. AFAIK Israel is currently the one in the dog house vs the EU.


On some level you are correct; Israel does not wants its friends and allies diplomatically engaging terrorist entities that 1) refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy, and 2) violently seek its destruction.

That is a legitimate and appropriate policy decision.

So, the Israel Foreign Ministry is correct in its decision regarding meetings with both Turkey and Norway. Diplomats who publicly hobnob with Hamas should not expect a welcome in Jerusalem. There is no common ground for rational and reasonable discussion with those who advocate the destruction of Israel.

That the EU is displeased with Israel would not surprise me, but do you have a link to an article that discusses the issue?

[ting]

On some level you are correct; Israel does not wants its friends and allies diplomatically engaging terrorist entities that 1) refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy, and 2) violently seek its destruction.

That is a legitimate and appropriate policy decision.

So, the Israel Foreign Ministry is correct in its decision regarding meetings with both Turkey and Norway. Diplomats who publicly hobnob with Hamas should not expect a welcome in Jerusalem. There is no common ground for rational and reasonable discussion with those who advocate the destruction of Israel.

That the EU is displeased with Israel would not surprise me, but do you have a link to an article that discusses the issue?

I'm a little short of time today, If you are not able to find what you are looking for, I think I can help you tomorrow.:-D

[m.i.t]

Really? Imagine if Israel made a statement about Turkey incursion/fighting the PKK a "genocide" and asking for a free Kurdistan, I doubt you would be happy about it.

So Armenian mate . Why Israel dont it ?

[Winger]

Why bother with middle easterners? I think Turkey should distance itself from Israel and Palestinian issues and concentrate on less thorny issues like trade etc..
why bother with middle east and peoples' never dying fervor for a really small piece of land?
What good could come out of it? None...

Most common sense I've heard all day. Why should they bother? They have enough problems in eastern Turkey with terrorists running amok. It's nice to have good international relationships but Israel/Gaza is one hot potato I would stay away from.

[Isaac Kasabian]

So Armenian mate .
Armenian?! what are you smoking?



Why Israel dont it ?

Pure common sense.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Armenian?! what are you smoking?




Pure common sense.


Kasabian. ??


Anyway I want Turkey and Israel to have good relations. I want Israelis to know Kemalist Turks favor Israel far above all the Arab countries. Tayip does not represent all of Turkey's population same way Stalin did not represent the USSR same as Hitler did not for Germany.

[Azatavrear]

So Armenian mate . Why Israel dont it ?

Politically it is not the right time at the moment my Turkish Mate.......the day will come.

[Zeev]

Anyway I want Turkey and Israel to have good relations. I want Israelis to know Kemalist Turks favor Israel far above all the Arab countries..

No doubt about that, the problem is that IMO, these people are not anymore a majority in Turkey....

[RoyB]

Anyway I want Turkey and Israel to have good relations. I want Israelis to know Kemalist Turks favor Israel far above all the Arab countries. Tayip does not represent all of Turkey's population same way Stalin did not represent the USSR same as Hitler did not for Germany.
Believe me, we all want to have good relations with Turkey also.

[Karaahmetoglu]

No doubt about that, the problem is that IMO, these people are not anymore a majority in Turkey....

The political parties are divided.

AKp is losing support since the last Federal Elections, and Municipal their support has gone down.

[Excalibur]

AFAIK the majority of turkish population rejects the heritage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, unfortunately, at least in recent years.

[4X4Driver]

AFAIK the majority of turkish population rejects the heritage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, unfortunately, at least in recent years.


Wrong! It's quite the opposite. Not even most of the AKP voters rejects Atatürk's heritage.

[MeteHan]

AFAIK the majority of turkish population rejects the heritage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, unfortunately, at least in recent years.

Phoenix Does Exist then.

[timetraveller]

No Country can dictate to where a Leader of another Country can Visit

[the_Wicked]

But ANY country can freely dictate whether anyone, including leaders of other countries, can visit its own territory or not.

[Karaahmetoglu]

AFAIK the majority of turkish population rejects the heritage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, unfortunately, at least in recent years.


Wrong! It's quite the opposite. Not even most of the AKP voters rejects Atatürk's heritage.


4X4Driver beat me to it.

Just because you vote for AKP does not necessary mean you vote for Tayip, there are even ex-DSP (Socialist Party) members in AKP, they are there because they have a good chance to become a minister.

[m.i.t]

l think Tayyip Erdogan is determined to destroy all politcal relations between Israel and Turkey .
Because well known fact many Arab lobbies which like to see destroyed Israel finance his political efforts for several years... EG .Yasin El-Kadi.

[Excalibur]

l think Tayyip Erdogan is determined to destroy all politcal relations between Israel and Turkey .
Because well known fact many Arab lobbies which like to see destroyed Israel finance his political efforts for several years... EG .Yasin El-Kadi.
and destroying these relations serves turkish national interest as well ?

[m.i.t]

and destroying these relations serves turkish national interest as well ?


His preference is definetly not nationalism but toward religoun .

[Empulse]

Just a thought. Perhaps Israel should bom the European subsidized Gaza Airport to the stone age every time they decide to go at war with Hamas. The last time I checked Hamas did not have an air-force.

[Zeev]

Just a thought. Perhaps Israel should bom the European subsidized Gaza Airport to the stone age every time they decide to go at war with Hamas. The last time I checked Hamas did not have an air-force.

Airport is a part of ennemy infrastructure that can help him to get weapons, equipements, etc, as well as bridges and harbours, the question is not about air force or not.

[Empulse]

Airport is a part of ennemy infrastructure that can help him to get weapons, equipements, etc, as well as bridges and harbours, the question is not about air force or not.

I understand your point, but it goes a bit far to tell a sovereign country: you are either with us or with the enemy. I had always thought that it was Hamas and other terrorist organizations that were perceived as Israel's enemies, and not the entire Palestinian population, as that's what Israel is more or less saying.

[Excalibur]

His preference is definetly not nationalism but toward religoun .
but here the issue is not PM himself and not his relations with israel.
i'm 100% sure that turkey is democracy and Tayyip Erdogan has been elected by the majority of turkish citizens.
the issue here is that the leader, that doesn't see the heritage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (heritage that not only turkey, but most of nations in the world would be proud of) as a turkey's highest value, gets support of the majority of turkish voters. this is very clear indication that turkey departed from the Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's way. IMHO this is the root problem. the israeli issue here is secondary.

[GiladS]

I understand your point, but it goes a bit far to tell a sovereign country: you are either with us or with the enemy. I had always thought that it was Hamas and other terrorist organizations that were perceived as Israel's enemies, and not the entire Palestinian population, as that's what Israel is more or less saying.

A visit to the Gaza Strip which is governed by Hamas is a clear message by the Turkish government that they acknowledge the Hamas regime there.

Israel of course wouldn't object to a meeting between Turkish and PA officials.

[Zeev]

I understand your point, but it goes a bit far to tell a sovereign country: you are either with us or with the enemy. I had always thought that it was Hamas and other terrorist organizations that were perceived as Israel's enemies, and not the entire Palestinian population, as that's what Israel is more or less saying.

I understand your point of view, but when the Hamas has the full control of these infrastructures, they do not belong to the Palestinian people anymore, but become a part of the terror machine against Israel and can be targeted.

[GB_FXST]

I understand your point, but it goes a bit far to tell a sovereign country: you are either with us or with the enemy. I had always thought that it was Hamas and other terrorist organizations that were perceived as Israel's enemies, and not the entire Palestinian population, as that's what Israel is more or less saying.


I understand your point of view, but when the Hamas has the control full of these infrastructures, they do not belong to the Palestinian people anymore, but become a part of the terror machine against Israel and can be targeted.

Let’s not forget that Hamas is an elected representative of the Palestinian people, having won a majority of parliamentary seats.

[Kaplanr]

And if he wants to visit Gaza, he can talk to the Egyptians.

[Isaac Kasabian]

Kasabian. ??
Well by that logic I would be Australian, Romanian, Lithuanian, etc etc... besides it's a name of a British band, yes I know I'm not original when it comes to pick a nickname.


Anyway I want Turkey and Israel to have good relations. I want Israelis to know Kemalist Turks favor Israel far above all the Arab countries. Tayip does not represent all of Turkey's population same way Stalin did not represent the USSR same as Hitler did not for Germany.

I want that to, but as far as I can see the Turkish government and I can safely presume the majority of the Turkish people don't want to.

[Karaahmetoglu]

I want that to, but as far as I can see the Turkish government and I can safely presume the majority of the Turkish people don't want to.


I said it earlier and I will say it again they in the last elections (municipals) (with the population that voted i.e not everyone), they got 36% of the vote, this does not mean the majority of the Turkish population follows AKP.

[Karaahmetoglu]

but here the issue is not pm himself and not his relations with israel.
I'm 100% sure that turkey is democracy and tayyip erdogan has been elected by the majority of turkish citizens.
The issue here is that the leader, that doesn't see the heritage of mustafa kemal atatürk (heritage that not only turkey, but most of nations in the world would be proud of) as a turkey's highest value, gets support of the majority of turkish voters. This is very clear indication that turkey departed from the mustafa kemal atatürk's way. Imho this is the root problem. The israeli issue here is secondary.



wrong! It's quite the opposite. Not even most of the akp voters rejects atatürk's heritage.


1234567890

[Crystal_sword]

Rofl... Cannot believe people are defneding Israel's stance in this. Jokes

[RoyB]

Rofl... Cannot believe people are defneding Israel's stance in this. Jokes
Than why don't you share with us your opinion about this..

[Ulytau]

only as i know cancellin issue not true even as FM said.

If this issue continue like that seems they will send Jak Kamhi or journalist Sedat Sertoglu rofl (He have really close friends from the Israeli officals ) even preparin un-offical meetings too like he did before between Iran and Israeli officals.