France opposes UN Sudan sanctions

[BlackRain]

France opposes UN Sudan sanctions

France says it does not support US plans for international sanctions on Sudan if violence continues in Darfur.

The UN Security Council is debating a US draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs.

The US also hinted that the sanctions could be extended to the government.

Meanwhile, African leaders have urged Khartoum to stop bombing Darfur and say their proposed 300-strong force will have a mandate to protect civilians.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell says promises to reign in the pro-government militia, known as the Janjaweed, have not been kept by Khartoum so far.

"Only action not words can win the race against death in Darfur," he said.

'Civil war'

Some one million people have fled their homes and at least 10,000 have been killed in what the UN calls "the world's worst humanitarian crisis."

A rebellion broke out in Darfur early last year, when two groups took up arms, accusing the government of ignoring the region.


'World's worst humanitarian crisis'

"In Darfur, it would be better to help the Sudanese get over the crisis so their country is pacified rather than sanctions which would push them back to their misdeeds of old," junior Foreign Minister Renaud Muselier told French radio.


France led opposition to US moves at the UN over Iraq. As was the case in Iraq, it also has significant oil interests in Sudan.

Mr Muselier also dismissed claims of "ethnic cleansing" or genocide in Darfur.


Mr. Muselier Must Have Missed This Announcement

A Paris-based non-governmental organisation, Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF, Doctors Without Borders), said Wednesday any attempt by Sudanese authorities to force the displaced people back to their homes without first addressing the widespread insecurity would cause a "health catastrophe".

"The displaced are not willing to go home because they fear being murdered," MSF president Jean-Herve Bradol told a separate press conference.

He said his organisation estimated that a third of the villages in the region had been destroyed and the lack of food meant there was now a risk "of losing a large segment of the population".

The UN's World Food Programme, he said, was currently only operating at half its capacity, and visa delays were slowing the ability of aid workers to deploy.

Bradol said he did not, however, see the crisis as a genocide or ethnic cleansing, but asserted that the persistent violence had wiped out around five percent of Darfur's population, "most of them men aged 15 to 45".




"I firmly believe it is a civil war and as they are little villages of 30, 40, 50, there is nothing easier than for a few armed horsemen to burn things down, to kill the men and drive out the women," he said.

Human rights activists say the Janjaweed are conducting a genocide against Darfur's black African population.

Those who have fled their homes say the Janjaweed ride on horses and camels into villages which have just been bombed by government aircraft, killing the men and raping the women.

Sudan denies backing the militia and, under strong international pressure, has promised to disarm them.

Travel ban

Chairman of the African Union Commission Alpha Oumar Konare said that the 300 troops would arrive in Sudan by the end of July.

He said they would intervene if they saw civilians being killed.

"We have called for a halt to the bombings... We received promises today from Khartoum," he said.

Analysts say that at least 15,000 troops would be needed to bring peace to the vast area of Darfur.

The BBC's Barnaby Phillips says the African Union is determined to be taken seriously as a body devoted to solving the continent's problems, but is severely hampered by a lack of resources.

African leaders say they hope richer countries will also do their bit to help.

A draft UN resolution proposed by the US envisages travel and arms sanctions on Janjaweed.

A previous Security Council statement on Darfur failed to criticise Khartoum directly, after resistance from Pakistan and China, instead urging cooperation and the disarming of the Janjaweed.

Question of time

The Security Council met in closed session for several hours on Wednesday and the draft resolution is being discussed again on Thursday.

Council members disagree over how long the Sudanese government should be given to resolve the situation itself, says the BBC's Stephen Gibbs in New York.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40121000/jpg/_40121239_janjaweedafpbody.jpg
The 'Janjaweed' militia are accused of ethnic cleansing

Some countries, including Pakistan, say that Sudan should be allowed sufficient time to demonstrate that it means what it says.

But the US remains sceptical over Sudan's commitment to act.

The US draft resolution threatens to escalate the sanctions within 30 days if results are not evident.

But diplomats hope that tough talking will force Sudan to act, our correspondent says.

They admit that imposing such a resolution on the largest country in Africa is fraught with difficulty, he says.


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3875277.stm

[Rannyoby]

I'm a wee bit in doubt there ...

What kind of sanctions did the US plan to apply? only travel and arms ?

The Janjaweed militiamen are backed by the Sudanese government, it's just too obvious.

[usa320]

I have no doubt that US Marines will end up going to Sudan...

[Rannyoby]

I have no doubt that US Marines will end up going to Sudan...

Wasn't it the same chorus about Liberia ? did they even hit the shore there ? (no, i don't count those who took care of the US embassy protection)

[usa320]

yes actually quite a few marines were involved in Liberia...

Guarding airports, embassies and protecting foreign nationals leaving the country.

And i also think there were probably SOF involved in that operation as well.

[szr]

I have no doubt that US Marines will end up going to Sudan...

Wasn't it the same chorus about Liberia ? did they even hit the shore there ? (no, i don't count those who took care of the US embassy protection)

They did. If you recall, about 200 Marines from the 26th MEU, were heli'd in to Roberts International Airport, outside Monrovia, to support the Nigerian-led peacekeeping force.

[Rannyoby]

yes actually quite a few marines were involved in Liberia...

Guarding airports, embassies and protecting foreign nationals leaving the country.

And i also think there were probably SOF involved in that operation as well.

There were about 200 troops in Liberia at the beginning of 2004 ... sure, that's a lot for peacekeeping ...


And what about Haiti too ?

[moughoun]

yes actually quite a few marines were involved in Liberia...

Guarding airports, embassies and protecting foreign nationals leaving the country.

And i also think there were probably SOF involved in that operation as well.

Funny story about that, it was Irish sf who guarded the US embassy and the hotel with the international diplomat's eg, next door for 5 day's untill your forces arrived :)


Your welcome ;)

[afrographX]

200 men aren't really more than a symbolic contribution to a peacekeeping force.

[szr]

200 men aren't really more than a symbolic contribution to a peacekeeping force.

We didn't need to send in more. The rebels didn't want to fight the Marines. Charles Taylor had just left, for exile. Things were cooling off. We sent 2000 Marines into Haiti durring the peak of the violence. Different situations, different force requirements.

[Laworkerbee]

A peacekeeping force will not help the region.

The Janjaweed are not going to stop these acts,they re drunk on blood and loot and have grown beyond the Sudanese government'a ability to control them anymore.

They need to be exterminated period

[Kilgor]

it also has significant oil interests in Sudan

like iraq ... right ?

:(

[BlackRain]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/images/sudanoil.jpg

Sudan's Oil Reserves

With the completion of a major oil export pipeline in July 1999, Sudanese crude oil production and exports have risen rapidly over the past three years. Sudan's estimated reserves of crude oil have doubled over the past year, and production is expected to reach 300,000 bbl/d by 2004.

Does the USA import Oil from Sudan? Answer: No.

The United States has been imposing economic sanctions against Sudan since November 1997, prohibiting trade between the two countries, as well as investment by U.S. businesses in Sudan. In February 2000, the sanctions were broadened to include a prohibition against U.S. citizens and companies conducting business with the Greater Nile Petroleum Operating Company (GNPOC), an international consortium of petroleum companies currently extracting oil from Sudan.

Does France? Answer: Yes.

Sudan's Major Trading Partners: Saudi Arabia, China, France, Italy, Germany, Egypt, Japan.



Proven Oil Reserves (1/1/03E): 563 million barrels
Oil Production (2001E): 209,000 barrels per day (bbl/d) (2002E): 227,500 bbl/d
Oil Consumption (2002E): 33,000 bbl/d
Net Oil Exports (2002E): 194,500 bbl/d
Natural Gas Reserves (1/1/02E): 3 trillion cubic feet (tcf)

Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/sudan.html

[seruriermarshal]

That's sh*t ! France will undertake the responsibility for this stupidly! They support ethnic cleansing ! Perhaps they have been forgot WWII !

:fork:

[ZeroPositive]

blah Blah Blah NON NON NON wait Oui Non I meant Non....

[Secret Squirrel]

That's sh*t ! France will undertake the responsibility for this stupidly! They support ethnic cleansing ! Perhaps they have been forgot WWII !

:fork:

how exactly are economic sanctions going to fix anything? They wont get to the root problem regarding how and why this situation emerged.

[moughoun]

Why not ask the PLA they do have 5,000 troop's there to"protect" their worker's

[seruriermarshal]

That's sh*t ! France will undertake the responsibility for this stupidly! They support ethnic cleansing ! Perhaps they have been forgot WWII !

:fork:

how exactly are economic sanctions going to fix anything? They wont get to the root problem regarding how and why this situation emerged.

HAHAHAHA......

Your idea ? then we nothing to do . wait next AQ ? perhaps you must go to Sudan !

[He219]

How exactly is doing nothing going to solve anything?

Just 10 years after Rwanda and after pledging 'never again', genocide is happening in Darfur. Without the threat of sanctions or military action, how is Sudan to take the UN warning serious?

Thursday July 1, 2004

Annan told Sudan's government that he wants to see progress within 48 hours resolving a bitter conflict in the Darfur region, which his officials say has led to the world's worst humanitarian crisis

Seven days later ...

[Kilgor]

Angry Lekota blames UN, France for genocide

July 07 2004 at 02:36AM

Kigali - South African defence minister Mosiuoa Lekota on Tuesday chastised the United Nations and the French government for not taking responsibility for their role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide which left an estimated 800 000 people dead.

Shaking his head incredulously, Lekota stared at a bed of partially mummified remains lying in their final throes of death, when he visited the Murambi Genocide Memorial in Southern Rwanda.

"We Africans must never again let others lead missions to protect or secure our people," he stated angrily.

The Rwandan government has blamed the French for turning a blind eye to the genocide.

"The French sent a force to allegedly protect those who were being slaughtered but instead it offered help to perpetrators," said the provincial prefect, Nsanzurwanda Epimaque.

While accompanying Lekota and his Rwandan counterpart, general Marcel Gatsinzi, on a tour of the area where an estimated 45 000 Tutsis were slaughtered in Gikorpgoro

Lekota said that nations who continued to deny their involvement and who continued to harbour those responsible for the Rwandan genocide, must be confronted by the world and asked to explain their actions.

"They need to be accountable not only to the world but to the people of Rwanda," he said.

He also blamed the Unite Nations (UN) for its failure to intervene in the crises and said that as an organisation it needed to be overhauled.

"It's only once the problem of racism is conquered that we will be able to address such atrocities as these," he said.

He said that an urgent review of the decision-making process within the UN was required to limit the time it took to make decisions in times of crises.

He was referring to Chapter Six of the UN constitution which allows for peace-keeping measures and Chapter Seven that caters for peace enforcement in which UN soldiers are permitted to enter into battle.

Lekota also called on African communities to surrender fugitives who were responsible for the massacre in Rwanda.

Persecutors fled to neighbouring Burundi, Tanzania, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Uganda following the killing spree.

Many returned to face the war times tribunal set in place by the Arusha Peace Accord in Tanzania.

An estimated 120 000 perpetrators were arrested and are facing trial.

Lekota was visibly shocked and often stopped to stare silently at a pile of bleached bones.

Many of the mummies were frozen in their final act of self-defence - their jaws stretched in a silent scream and their arms held over their heads.

"We South Africans are so lucky that we never experienced anything of this nature," he said. - Sapa

__________________________________________________________


What annoys me the most, is the french people, leadership and media are probably strongest in the anti american imperialism retoric, yet events like this are ignored. How dare the americans invade iraq for the oil, yet its perfectly fine for france to say non to war for the oil contracts and now the disaster in sudan.

Its truely sickening :(

[Secret Squirrel]

How exactly is doing nothing going to solve anything?

Just 10 years after Rwanda and after pledging 'never again', genocide is happening in Darfur. Without the threat of sanctions or military action, how is Sudan to take the UN warning serious?

Thursday July 1, 2004

Annan told Sudan's government that he wants to see progress within 48 hours resolving a bitter conflict in the Darfur region, which his officials say has led to the world's worst humanitarian crisis

Seven days later ...

did i say to do nothing? :roll:

[Secret Squirrel]

That's sh*t ! France will undertake the responsibility for this stupidly! They support ethnic cleansing ! Perhaps they have been forgot WWII !

:fork:

how exactly are economic sanctions going to fix anything? They wont get to the root problem regarding how and why this situation emerged.

HAHAHAHA......

Your idea ? then we nothing to do . wait next AQ ? perhaps you must go to Sudan !

Can you do me a favor...can you type your ideas in your native tongue and i'll translate or find someone who can translate your words. Because i keep having a hard time finding any "ideas" in your posts and it's probably just because of a language barrier.

[seruriermarshal]

How exactly is doing nothing going to solve anything?

Just 10 years after Rwanda and after pledging 'never again', genocide is happening in Darfur. Without the threat of sanctions or military action, how is Sudan to take the UN warning serious?

Thursday July 1, 2004

Annan told Sudan's government that he wants to see progress within 48 hours resolving a bitter conflict in the Darfur region, which his officials say has led to the world's worst humanitarian crisis

Seven days later ...

did i say to do nothing? :roll:

Then you ready how to do ?

[Rannyoby]

I wouldn't mind going to Sudan ... it's one of the rare eastern African ****holes I haven't alreAdy stepped in yet ... but now, will the politicians have the guts to move their asses to get something efficient done ...


One thing which bothers me though ... shall Sudan be considered as part of Central Africa or Eastern Africa ? I'd say it both ... but I don't know, I'm not a geograph ...

-edit- : i'd like to have my chunk of muslim extremists too ...

[He219]

did i say to do nothing? :roll:
OK, I'll rephrase that.

How does not supporting a UN draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs stop the pending genocide in the Darfur region?


They wont get to the root problem regarding how and why this situation emerged.
We are talking about two issues.

The most critical is the pending human catastrophe.

The cause and 'never again' can be debated until the next genocide is allowed to happen.

[Romulus]

Thursday July 1, 2004
Annan told Sudan's government that he wants to see progress within 48 hours resolving a bitter conflict in the Darfur region, which his officials say has led to the world's worst humanitarian crisis


Seven days later ...



rofl

[Secret Squirrel]

did i say to do nothing? :roll:
OK, I'll rephrase that.

How does not supporting a UN draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs stop the pending genocide in the Darfur region?


They wont get to the root problem regarding how and why this situation emerged.
We are talking about two issues.

The most critical is the pending human catastrophe.

The cause and 'never again' can be debated until the next genocide is allowed to happen.

thanks for rephrasing. My point was, does anyone really believe that economic sanctions against the militias and maybe the government will have any affect? People are being killed now correct? Some are pretty much calling it genocide right? Well when they call it genocide, it shouldnt be too hard to put forces on the ground. I wasnt trying to defend france's position or even contribute to BP's anti-french thread. I was asking if anyone really believed that economic sanctions were going to put a stop to the killing.

[admar2]

just another example of why the UN is completely ****ing useless.

other than skimming billions off the Iraqi oil for food program of course. rofl

[Romulus]

I was asking if anyone really believed that economic sanctions were going to put a stop to the killing.

Doubt it.

[Deuterium]

From a country and a President that sat idly by as tens of thousands of his own citizens baked to death in the CAPITAL CITY, it's not too surprising that he doesn't care about a few million Africans.

Let them eat cake.......

[Kilgor]

From a country and a President that sat idly by as tens of thousands of his own citizens baked to death in the CAPITAL CITY, it's not too surprising that he doesn't care about a few million Africans.

Let them eat cake.......

Get it right ... p-)

he was on holiday at the time and refused to return home to attend to the situation.

Let them eat cake indeed

[He219]

I wasnt trying to defend france's position or even contribute to BP's anti-french thread.
Indeed it is a perfect example of UN Inaction due to France's opposition of precursory measures in imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing".

Personally I think France is blocking action because it is a US sponsored resolution. Why am I not surprised?


Well when they call it genocide, it shouldnt be too hard to put forces on the ground.
Look what happened last time.


I was asking if anyone really believed that economic sanctions were going to put a stop to the killing.
Are you choosing to 'put forces on the ground' even before applying precursury diplomatic and economic pressure through UN Resolution?

You don't chide exhausting diplomatic pressures in this case before sending in the boys or are they just a threat to their own people?
;)

[Deuterium]

I wasnt trying to defend france's position or even contribute to BP's anti-french thread.
Indeed it is a perfect example of UN Inaction due to France's opposition of precursory measures in imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing".

Personally I think France is blocking action because it is a US sponsored resolution. Why am I not surprised?


I was asking if anyone really believed that economic sanctions were going to put a stop to the killing.
Are you choosing to 'put forces on the ground' even before applying precursury diplomatic and economic pressure through UN Resolution?

You don't chide exhausting diplomatic pressures in this case before sending in the boys or are they just a threat to their own people?
;)

Only if the US is involved.

[Secret Squirrel]

I wasnt trying to defend france's position or even contribute to BP's anti-french thread.
Indeed it is a perfect example of UN Inaction due to France's opposition of precursory measures in imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing".

Personally I think France is blocking action because it is a US sponsored resolution. Why am I not surprised?

You're probably right. I think this was the only argument in the article explaining France's position..."In Darfur, it would be better to help the Sudanese get over the crisis so their country is pacified rather than sanctions which would push them back to their misdeeds of old," junior Foreign Minister Renaud Muselier told French radio." Any other news networks picking up this story? Any "offical" reasons given for opposition?




Well when they call it genocide, it shouldnt be too hard to put forces on the ground.
Look what happened last time.

I assume you're refering to Rwanda? If not, ignore the rest of this paragraph. I had the chance to speak with Roméo Dallaire in person a few years ago after one of his lectures. It's amazing when you hear him talk about Rwanda and, while 800,000+ people were being killed, a U.S press sec. (not sure on her exact title) was trying her best to dodge calling it genocide because if it was labled a genocide, then something had to be done. And it's amazing to watch Clinton field a question asking why U.S forces didnt go in, responding with "we have no national interests in Rwanda". If the situation in Sudan merits descriptions of ethnic cleansing or genocide, then whats the point to exhaust diplomatic efforts? In a 100 days genocide had come and gone.



I was asking if anyone really believed that economic sanctions were going to put a stop to the killing.
Are you choosing to 'put forces on the ground' even before applying precursury diplomatic and economic pressure through UN Resolution?

You don't chide exhausting diplomatic pressures in this case before sending in the boys or are they just a threat to their own people?
;)

Why didnt you just come out and say you wanted to compare this situation to Iraq? ;) The Iraq invasion was not a chapter six mission. It was a pre-emptive war, sold on the pretext that Iraq was a threat to the U.S and the world because of WMDs programs and WMD stockpiles and because of connections to AQ (all of which have yet to be validated on the initial claims). So they arent comparable. If genocide is occuring in Sudan, then a chapter six mission should easily be within the scope of the international community.

To be perfectly honest, i havent been following this situation very closely. I've glanced at news reports here and there, and the article at the beginning of this thread, but if you have any good reports that you trust, feel free to either pm them to me or post them.

[SpazzMunky]

Sanctions won't do anything.I want to see troops on the ground, preferably UN troops, if they manage to get their act together(yeah right.)

and this should have been done weeks ago.

[Deuterium]

It was a pre-emptive war, sold on the pretext that Iraq was a threat to the U.S and the world because of WMDs programs and WMD stockpiles and because of connections to AQ (all of which have yet to be validated on the initial claims).

Gosh I guess I just imagined the AI/AQ camp we attacked outside of Halabja. I must have been dreaming. Must have been the Mefloquine, damn malaria pills. THERE WERE NO AQ IN IRAQ. Yeah right....

[He219]

I assume you're refering to Rwanda?
I was thinking 'the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia' in addition to Rwanda ...
;)

Tell France to sponsor a military resolution first. See what happens.


[Iraq] was a pre-emptive war, sold on the pretext that Iraq was a threat to the U.S and the world because of WMDs programs and WMD stockpiles and because of connections to AQ (all of which have yet to be validated on the initial claims).
Wasn't it Chapter VII (http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/15016.htm) of the Charter of the United Nations adopted as Resolution 1441 and violation of Gulf War requirements that autorized the use of force besides your stated US foreign policy mission in the War on Terror?
;)

Don't give me the WMD stuff. All the Politicians were convinced of Saddam's WMD threat using Clinton era intelligence. UNSCOM even determined the quantities.


I'll certainly forward any pertinent info on Darfur as it is relavent.

[Secret Squirrel]

I assume you're refering to Rwanda?
I was thinking 'the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia' in addition to Rwanda ...
;)

Tell France to sponsor a military resolution first. See what happens.


[Iraq] was a pre-emptive war, sold on the pretext that Iraq was a threat to the U.S and the world because of WMDs programs and WMD stockpiles and because of connections to AQ (all of which have yet to be validated on the initial claims).
Wasn't it Chapter VII (http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/15016.htm) of the Charter of the United Nations adopted as Resolution 1441 and violation of Gulf War requirements that autorized the use of force besides your stated US foreign policy mission in the War on Terror?
;)

Don't give me the WMD stuff. All the Politicians were convinced of Saddam's WMD threat using Clinton era intelligence. UNSCOM even determined the quantities.


I'll certainly forward any pertinent info on Darfur as it is relavent.

Do you want to turn this into another Iraq thread or should I not respond? ;)

[He219]

Just sayin', Chapter VII has broader powers.

:lol:

[Secret Squirrel]

Just sayin', Chapter VII has broader powers.

:lol:

yep, and no one is suggesting invading Sudan to change the regime. Unless someone has and i missed it?

[He219]

Wouldn't that get at the 'root of the problem'.
;)

[Secret Squirrel]

Wouldn't that get at the 'root of the problem'.
;)

Would it? How often have militas been known to simply put down their arms in the past when politely asked? ;)

[fantassin]

France's "Service Action" (covert action group) from the DGSE has had operators on the ground for years over there.

Plus, since France has a lot of assets in neighbouring Chad, including ground troops, AFVs, Mirage jets and helos, it has got much better info on the situation on the ground than any other country seating on the side and listening to the NGOs, whose role is always to cry wolf to make sure they attract attention and money.

But hey, no one would want to miss an opportunity to bash France...

[Rannyoby]

France's "Service Action" (covert action group) from the DGSE has had operators on the ground for years over there.

Plus, since France has a lot of assets in neighbouring Chad, including ground troops, AFVs, Mirage jets and helos, it has got much better info on the situation on the ground than any other country seating on the side and listening to the NGOs, whose role is always to cry wolf to make sure they attract attention and money.

But hey, no one would want to miss an opportunity to bash France...

I agree there.
France has a step in Africa since the middle of the 19th century and has been present in the region since the early 20th century.

I guess the French have a much better image of the situation down there than most of the others.


And Fantassin, the Division des Opérations (that's the new appelation of the Service Action)has antennas operatives all over the world in all the hotspots one can think about... that's what is said about them at least. ;)
I guess the ones present in the region are possibly on "Obs" and "Arma" missions.

Did you see that report about DGSE operatives some time ago on France 2 ? Do you remember where the sequence with the guy from the operations division was shot ?

[fantassin]

True, it's the "DO" now along with the "DR", the "DS", the "DT" the "DA"....but the "SA" sounds so much like the old "SDECE" times, I have always had a fondness for it !

I have seen it and even though the map was blurred it was pretty obvious they were right there ! a lot of blue on top of the map and the blurred part right down South....that was hard.....

[Rannyoby]

True, it's the "DO" now along with the "DR", the "DS", the "DT" the "DA"....but the "SA" sounds so much like the old "SDECE" times, I have always had a fondness for it !


Ahhhhhhhhh and the 11ème Choc ... :)

[OB Kenobi]

I wouldn't mind going to Sudan ... it's one of the rare eastern African ****holes I haven't alreAdy stepped in yet ... but now, will the politicians have the guts to move their asses to get something efficient done ...


One thing which bothers me though ... shall Sudan be considered as part of Central Africa or Eastern Africa ? I'd say it both ... but I don't know, I'm not a geograph ...

-edit- : i'd like to have my chunk of muslim extremists too ...

Maybe you should finish elementary school first.

As for invading Sudan. It's got oil, a definite possibility.

[Rannyoby]

I wouldn't mind going to Sudan ... it's one of the rare eastern African ****holes I haven't alreAdy stepped in yet ... but now, will the politicians have the guts to move their asses to get something efficient done ...


One thing which bothers me though ... shall Sudan be considered as part of Central Africa or Eastern Africa ? I'd say it both ... but I don't know, I'm not a geograph ...

-edit- : i'd like to have my chunk of muslim extremists too ...

Maybe you should finish elementary school first.

As for invading Sudan. It's got oil, a definite possibility.

Ah it's a long time since i've been to elementary school, but you're right, it never hurts to check your basics ;)