Massive Tea Party Protests In DC

[CPLHUNTER]

Thousands pack D.C. to protest spending, taxes

Fiscal conservatives converge for 'March on Washington'


WASHINGTON - Thousands of people marched to the U.S. Capitol on Saturday, carrying signs with slogans such as "Obamacare makes me sick" as they protested the president's health care plan and what they say is out-of-control spending.

The line of protesters completely filled Pennsylvania Avenue for blocks, all the way to the capitol, according to the D.C. Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency. People were chanting "enough, enough" and "We the People." Others yelled "You lie, you lie!" and "Pelosi has to go," referring to California congresswoman Nancy Pelosihttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32811199/ns/politics-more_politics/#).


Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32811199/ns/politics-more_politics/

[Alpheus]

That's the kind of community organizing I could get behind.

[Ordie]

Thousands pack D.C. to protest spending, taxes

Fiscal conservatives converge for 'March on Washington'


WASHINGTON - Thousands of people marched to the U.S. Capitol on Saturday, carrying signs with slogans such as "Obamacare makes me sick" as they protested the president's health care plan and what they say is out-of-control spending.

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/

[plato]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/

Drinking tea at home

[2495]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?


9/11 kind of blinded alot of people in terms of reasoning. It was a seen as a war against terrorism and al Qaeda, and to protest against it was seen as unpatriotic and anti American.

Obama? hes just a long legged mack daddy with too much style and so little substance he makes a snow man in summer seem solid and dependable.

Bail out amounts so far? lol.

[cone256]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/


Well these protests started when Bush was president...so yeah they've been around a couple years now

[T$739]

9/11 kind of blinded alot of people in terms of reasoning. It was a seen as a war against terrorism and al Qaeda, and to protest against it was seen as unpatriotic and anti American.

Most realistic statement anyone has ever said. Al Qaeda & the Taliban are probably enjoying every minute of this. They put planes into the towers and pentagon. And then probably the bravest civilians that this country has seen in a long time, that had the most common sense in there own minds, down there own plane to stop them from doing it to another building.

But we all know those bastards are winning cause the majority of this country is going into turmoil because we let them. I think they wanted that more next to having us wiped off the face of the earth.

[shocker1]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/
Is that the best you can do?

[I can't think of a name]

Well Obama is an unpopular President so it makes sense these crowds are so large. The only people who don't get it are the media.

Watch people chant "Glenn Beck" and drown out the CNN report. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Ntu7Aapys&feature=player_embedded

[brainplay]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/

They were probably supporting it then and probably still supporting it now.

Apples and oranges Ordie. You should know better than to use an obvious strawman. Cost of the both wars still doesn't add up to a single year of healthcare spending under current or the new proposed methods.

[JKD]

Well Obama is an unpopular President so it makes sense these crowds are so large.
The honeymoon's definitely over but his approval ratings are in the low 50s. Not much lower than Bush's were pre-9/11

[Geezah]

They were probably supporting it then and probably still supporting it now.

Apples and oranges Ordie. You should know better than to use an obvious strawman. Cost of the both wars still doesn't add up to a single year of healthcare spending under current or the new proposed methods.

Amen.........

Tens of thousands came out to protest....that's saying something, and it won't get any smaller.....

[USMCRTop]

Well Obama is an unpopular president]

and the basis for this "fact " is ??

[Nano]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/


The protesters I would have to agree with you are full of it and are bias towards the democrats. In that sense I agree with protesting against the current status quo, but in essence they are backers of their own rather than what is good for the country. In that sense you're right Iraq only made clear what we stand for in actuality, but to be fair all countries are the same in this regard.

Now I don't like any proposals that take away one's freedom to choose, because essentially that is the only true freedom we have. In this case I fiercely dislike the healthcare bill making insurance mandatory. I wonder why these people are not protesting against medicare, social security and the current tax scheme given that they too are representative of big brother.

Well you should look it this way those wars are being paid with debt loans from China buying U.S. bonds which are turn paid off with more debt or money printing. Taxes are spent way before they are even collected so essentially your taxes are not paying for the wars.

Though there is a form of tax called inflation as a result of what I now have termed monetary whoredom that has been going on for a few decades now.

In the end all of this just pisses me off and once I realize the futility of it all recalling something a cousin likes to mindlessly say "**** it thug life".

[chauncy republicans]

Well Obama is an unpopular President so it makes sense these crowds are so large. The only people who don't get it are the media.

Watch people chant "Glenn Beck" and drown out the CNN report. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Ntu7Aapys&feature=player_embedded
Why in the hell would they be chanting Glenn Beck? I agree with the protesters for the most part, but they just make themselves look like boneheads by chanting Glenn Beck's name.

It's actually pretty frightening when a talking head is held in such obviously high esteem, just goes to show the left aren't the only ones that watch too much cable news.

[Trouble]

As for numbers the count I heard from those there is closer to 1.5 Million people at today's TEA party Rally.

DC Police officially decided to not keep count..... according to the New York times. But it was enough folks to effectively shut down the city .... movement was hard at best.

[Soldat_Américain]

I saw the live feed on CNN yesterday when the tea party expressed stopped in Michigan and it was contrasted with footage from Nevada. In Nevada it was quite civil and they were singing. In Michigan some schmuck was getting violent with a woman probably 80lbs lesser. What's with the bad manners. I would have given him something to think about...you do not treat women like that and definitely do not do it on live television.

[plato]

As for numbers the count I heard from those there is closer to 1.5 Million people at today's TEA party Rally.

DC Police officially decided to not keep count..... according to the New York times. But it was enough folks to effectively shut down the city .... movement was hard at best.
Is this a nation wide count? or just the people protesting in DC? Do you have any idea what 1.5 million look like? Even the "Million Man March (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Man_March)" was not one million. I highly doubt 1.5 million people were there in DC. Nation wide, maybe....

[SpartanML]

Interesting image showing a good glimpse of how many people showed up.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1706/live912.jpg (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/live912.jpg/)

[plato]

is this the so called "1.5 million"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/LoPud1TeubM
we had more illegal immigrats here protesting in 2006: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/

And that was about 500,000

[Ordie]

That's one big teabagging party.

[kitatatsumi]

They were probably supporting it then and probably still supporting it now.

Apples and oranges Ordie. You should know better than to use an obvious strawman. Cost of the both wars still doesn't add up to a single year of healthcare spending under current or the new proposed methods.

Dont know how to put this without sounding negative or opening a can of worms but; Spending tons on nation building on the other side of the world or spending a few more tons on health care for Americans citizens right here in River City?

[Invisigoth]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Little_Rock_integration_protest.jpg

Down with the Washington communists!

[commanding]

well I guess that is one of the things we fight (or fought) for, to allow people to demonstrate, no matter if they are hood wearing KKK klansmen, right to lifers, anti Bush or anti Obama, or anti Roosevelt crowds.
I for one, am glad we have a freedom of protest and freedom of speech.

[GlassHarp]

That's one big teabagging party.


Classy.



Did you make that one up all by youself?

[INAT]

Until you are willing to organize your friends and neighbors and literally shut down cities - drive at 5mph through the streets of major cities on the freeway and stop commerce, refuse to show up for work, refuse to borrow and spend more than you make, show up in Washington DC with a million of your neighbors and literally shut down The Capitol you WILL be bent over the table on a daily basis." Karl Denninger


I would say more than a million, but he is right.

[GlassHarp]

Might be helpfull.

[Geezah]

Down with the Washington communists!

You're a Geni-Arse, are you trying to say that those that protest Obama are Rascist?!

Maybe you should also post a pic of Obama's Black Shirts!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_a6qLw3t3Zc0/Sn132RlKZdI/AAAAAAAAAKE/micnU_x8Xtg/s320/black-panthers-300x287.jpg

[GlassHarp]

You're a Geni-Arse, are you trying to say that those that protest Obama are Rascist?!

Maybe you should also post a pic of Obama's Black Shirts!


All charges against them have been dropped by An Obama appointee. It is unbelievable.

[LineDoggie]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Little_Rock_integration_protest.jpg

Down with the Washington communists! Ahhhhh, there it is, the try and infer that the tea party protestors are racists, always a good card to drop. Why not post SA brownshirts to finish the trifecta? you know you want to......

[spineshank00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llCrPUGFlK8&feature=sub

[LineDoggie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llCrPUGFlK8&feature=sub Meh, this guy is just as much an loud angry partisan idiot as those he complains about. A reporter reporting from a protest couldnt be heard in the crowd?

No ****, quelle surprise

[Lethal Lou]

So far I've been to four protests. First one in February in Portland/OR right when they started; second in Salem/OR for Tax Day; third in Springfield/OH for 4th of July and then yesterday, back on the steps of the legislature in Salem/OR. First time I've ever done anything political other than vote for the past 30 years. Since the comments indicate that those individuals (at least) don't have much knowledge of what goes on at an event, allow me to provide some insight.

These are a cross-generational mix, with about 50% over 50/balance below. Younger folks have more challenges showing up with sked conflicts/etc but always lots of kids seeing democracy in action. The groups are very civil and, well, conservative! It is almost impossible to get a chant going - that's just not their style. On the other hand, very patriotic with lots of folks wearing shirts/hats referring to their former military affiliation. Oh yeah, and every time the cops drive by (city, county or state - in both Oregon and Ohio) they gave us the thumbs up. Probably didn't do that for the anti-war protestors. And this group consistently supports our troops, regardless of the president temporarily in power.

Note both of these were blue states so there are beaucoup libs who wander by and become incesnsed that anyone would have an opposing opinion and dare to express same. Lots of vitriol in the editorial columns after the fact - but of course virtually nil coverage in the legacy media. What I've noticed is the draw seems to be about 1 % of the population of the town. Salem has a population of 136,000 and there were about 1500 folks at both of the two events I attended there. Springfield has a population around 65,000 and there were around 600 people there. Not a bad turnout for a bunch of working stiffs. And these are the foremen at the factory, elders in the church, mid-level managers, etc turning out. E.g. - leaders.

Re media coverage - when you go home after one of these events and find no coverage, people complain. That means 10 more people learn about it for next time - and all those guys wonder why the media didn't cover it. Which creates more distrust in the media regarding their coverage of other events. I could blather on a bit more here but will stop for the moment. Just realize that in addition to however many folks there were in DC yesterday, there were thousands more participating across the country. And that those stories are of course lost in the back/forth over how many folks in the crowd at DC. That's fine. Kinda like folks obsessing about counting the deck chairs on the Titanic instead of working to change course. Gotta run to chuch but I'll check the thread later when I get back.

[wild_wild_wes]

the Mail puts the number at 2 million:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html

Up to two million march to US Capitol to protest against Obama's spending in 'tea-party' demonstration

Up to two million people marched to the U.S. Capitol today, carrying signs with slogans such as "Obamacare makes me sick" as they protested the president's health care plan and what they say is out-of-control spending.

The line of protesters spread across Pennsylvania Avenue for blocks, all the way to the capitol, according to the Washington Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency.

People were chanting "enough, enough" and "We the People." Others yelled "You lie, you lie!" and "Pelosi has to go," referring to California congresswoman Nancy Pelosi.

Demonstrators waved U.S. flags and held signs reading "Go Green Recycle Congress" and "I'm Not Your ATM." Men wore colonial costumes as they listened to speakers who warned of "judgment day" - Election Day 2010.

Richard Brigle, 57, a Vietnam War veteran and former Teamster, came from Michigan. He said health care needs to be reformed - but not according to President Barack Obama's plan.

"My grandkids are going to be paying for this. It's going to cost too much money that we don't have," he said while marching, bracing himself with a wooden cane as he walked.

FreedomWorks Foundation, a conservative organization led by former House of Representatives Majority Leader **** Armey, organized several groups from across the country for what they billed as a "March on Washington."

Organizers say they built on momentum from the April "tea party" demonstrations held nationwide to protest tax policies, along with growing resentment over the economic stimulus packages and bank bailouts.

Many protesters said they paid their own way to the event - an ethic they believe should be applied to the government.

They say unchecked spending on things like a government-run health insurance option could increase inflation and lead to economic ruin.

Terri Hall, 45, of Florida, said she felt compelled to become political for the first time this year because she was upset by government spending.

"Our government has lost sight of the powers they were granted," she said. She added that the deficit spending was out of control, and said she thought it was putting the country at risk.

Anna Hayes, 58, a nurse from Fairfax County, stood on the Mall in 1981 for Reagan's inauguration. "The same people were celebrating freedom," she said. "The president was fighting for the people then. I remember those years very well and fondly."

Saying she was worried about "Obamacare," Hayes explained: "This is the first rally I've been to that demonstrates against something, the first in my life. I just couldn't stay home anymore."

Like countless others at the rally, Joan Wright, 78, of Ocean Pines, Md., sounded angry. "I'm not taking this crap anymore," said Wright, who came by bus to Washington with 150 like-minded residents of Maryland's Eastern Shore. "I don't like the health-care [plan]. I don't like the czars. And I don't like the elitists telling us what we should do or eat."

Republican lawmakers also supported the rally.

"Republicans, Democrats and independents are stepping up and demanding we put our fiscal house in order," Rep. Mike Pence, chairman of the House Republican Conference, said.

"I think the overriding message after years of borrowing, spending and bailouts is enough is enough."

Other sponsors of the rally include the Heartland Institute, Americans for Tax Reform and the Ayn Rand Center for Individuals Rights.

Recent polls illustrate how difficult recent weeks have been for a president who, besides tackling health care, has been battling to end a devastatingly deep recession.

Fifty percent approve and 49 percent disapprove of the overall job he is doing as president, compared to July, when those approving his performance clearly outnumbered those who were unhappy with it, 55 percent to 42 percent.

Just 42 percent approve of the president's work on the high-profile health issue.

The poll was taken over five days just before Obama's speech to Congress. That speech reflected Obama's determination to push ahead despite growing obstacles.

"I will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than to improve it," Obama said on Wednesday night. "I won't stand by while the special interests use the same old tactics to keep things exactly the way they are.

"If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we'll call you out. And I will not accept the status quo as a solution."

Prior to Obama's speech before Congress U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man they say tried to get into a secure area near the Capitol with a gun in his car as President Barack Obama was speaking.

Police spokeswoman Sgt. Kimberly Schneider said Thursday that 28-year-old Joshua Bowman of suburban Falls Church, Virginia, was arrested around 8 p.m. Wednesday when Obama was due to speak.

Bowman's intentions were unclear, police said.

Today's protests imitated the original Boston Tea Party of 1773, when colonists threw three shiploads of taxed tea into Boston Harbour in protest against the British government under the slogan 'No taxation without representation'.

The group first began rising to prominence in April, when the governor of Texas threatened to secede from the union in protest against government spending. Waves of tea party protests have crossed America since.

Today's rally, the largest grouping of fiscal conservatives to march on Washington, comes on the heels of heated town halls held during the congressional August recess when some Democratic lawmakers were confronted, disrupted and shouted down by angry protestors who oppose President Obama's plan to overhaul the health care system.

[Soldat_Américain]

They were not even close to civil in Troy Michigan, maybe it was for you up in Oregon, but the people protesting in Troy were utterly disrespectful of each other. No hands were clean, but I saw on the footage(not just from CNN btw), mostly older conservative men being very mean spirited and down right violent to ladies that were roughly the same age but definitely about 100lbs lesser in weight. So the moment you tell me these were all peaceful I'm spitting in disgust because they aren't.

[SkyUS]

Anybody knows when the next tea party is going down?

[LineDoggie]

Anybody knows when the next tea party is going down?
Google? I'm sure they have some sort of website to coordinate

[Soldat_Américain]

When the East India Company comes into Boston Harbor.

[SkyUS]

Google? I'm sure they have some sort of website to coordinate

I figured with so many supporters here somebody would know.

I Googled and all I can say is that they are pretty damn well organized. It seems that the next march on DC will be Jan 20th 2010.

FYI- Can't wait to photo document the event.

[wild_wild_wes]

Anybody knows when the next tea party is going down?

http://www.freedomworks.org/follow-the-march-on-dc-from-home?_kk=tea%20party%20express&_kt=c14d9017-1ac4-4891-b7d5-c7d1f1e2abee&gclid=CIKl9NCM75wCFRgSawodykdekw

This movement has just started to pick up steam.

The Republican Party is a dried-up husk, the chitinous empty shell of a long-departed spirit, bereft of vision or higher purpose. We the base have left the GOP; the Tea Party movement is currently amorphous and basically spontaneous....what direction it will go in will be interesting.

It's unnoficial emblem is the Gadsden Flag. Those who gather under it are the real Americans, not Obama's mindless welfare basketcases. Like ACORN, Obama's base is like a rotten edifice, one good kick and the whole empty thing will come crashing down.

[Macs.]

What are you, a super troll ?

Those who don't agree with your view are not "real Americans™" ? How un-american of you. rofl

[plato]

just a "terrorist" who wants to "hijack" real Americans.

[Soldat_Américain]

Nice to know I'm not a real American, you can go do something to yourself.

[GlassHarp]

What are you, a super troll ?

Those who don't agree with your view are not "real Americans™" ? How un-american of you. rofl

It is un-American to define what an American is? What is the purpose of having a language if the words that the language uses are not clearly defined?

[plato]

hahaha, my definition is that Americans include "real" and "fake" Americans.

[Ordie]

Where were these folks when Bush ran 8 years of deficits and tax breaks for the rich?

Clinton gave Bush a surplus, and as a true conservative he spends it away.

[plato]

they were "fake" Americans, then. Now, they decided to be "real" Americans.

[plato]

On a serious note, I don't agree with Obama on many things. But, at least the guy is trying. Most Republicans just can't stop whining. It is ok to disagree, but it is NOT ok to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Where are your solutions? It is fine to disagree with Obama's health reform. But, it is just disturbing to me how some Republicans don't even think there is a health care problem in this country. The Republicans must be thankful that it is the Dems in power now, trying to deal with Bush's mess. If it were the Republicans in power, they would be borrowing and bailing out, too.

[Sigurd]

Where were these folks when Bush ran 8 years of deficits and tax breaks for the rich?

Clinton gave Bush a surplus, and as a true conservative he spends it away.

Bush was a Neocon. Neocons are not actual Conservatives.

[GlassHarp]

Where were these folks when Bush ran 8 years of deficits and tax breaks for the rich?

Clinton gave Bush a surplus, and as a true conservative he spends it away.

Bush a Conservative? Come on, does anyone believe that anymore. I think that you should maybe go to one of these tea parties I think that many, If not most, of the people there would share your low view of Bush's economic policies. I am not 100% sure but I think it might be premature to lump the "tea Party" government protesters as just more of the same from the republican party. Certainly a major portion of them are from the republican party, but I know many are not. I don't think it will happen, but I think the core of the movement would prefer a third party.

People are disgusted with the Republican party, the last two elections reflect that. But now people are also disgusted with the Democrat party, as is reflected in the Presidents and Congresses steadily falling poll numbers. Its time for something new.

[GlassHarp]

It is ok to disagree, but it is NOT ok to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Where are your solutions? It is fine to disagree with Obama's health reform. But, it is just disturbing to me how some Republicans don't even think there is a health care problem in this country. .

Are you serious? Obama will not even meet with people from across the aisle to talk about health care reform. He has time to give a speach every other day but not to have meetings with people about an issue that is a problem?

[plato]

Are you serious? Obama will not even meet with people from across the aisle to talk about health care reform. He has time to give a speach every other day but not to have meetings with people about an issue that is a problem?
Ok, so Obama is an axxhole! And what are Republicans' solutions and plans? They can only talk about these issues with Obama the axxxxle?

[GlassHarp]

Ok, so Obama is an axxhole! And what are Republicans' solutions and plans? They can only talk about these issues with Obama the axxxxle?

If think if you really wanted to know their plan you could figure it out. Anyway here it is.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

[GlassHarp]

Why not pass health care reforms that EVERYBODY can agree with first. IF there are still problems after that (I suppose there would be) take care of them one at a time.

Take the time to get it right. Yes some may suffer, but not as much as if they get it wrong

It is a huge portion of the economy they are messing with. It is a huge undertaking, and it must take one seriously huge ego to think that there should not be any debate on the issue.

It is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that only supporters of Obama's plan actually care about health reform. It's B.S. and I am sick of it.

[shocker1]

Why not pass health care reforms that EVERYBODY can agree with first. IF there are still problems after that (I suppose there would be) take care of them one at a time.

Take the time to get it right. Yes some may suffer, but not as much as if they get it wrong

It is a huge portion of the economy they are messing with. It is a huge undertaking, and it must take one seriously huge ego to think that there should not be any debate on the issue.

It is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that only supporters of Obama's plan actually care about health reform. It's B.S. and I am sick of it.
Very frustrating isn't it. When you post facts from the bills, legitimate opinions in dissent or call out the wrongs it only brings out the ignorance of the partisan hacks around here. They make references to the Bush wrongs to divert attention from the here and now. When undisputed facts from these bills are posted they are just ignored. When you make a valid argument you are open to character assassinations and slaps to the face with moral relativism.

The only good thing is the ones engaging in this mentally challenged behavior are on the other end of the political spectrum now. They run the show and yet the same old things are going on. At this point just sit back and watch it all crash down like a house of cards.

[Lethal Lou]

Okay - back from church and I see the thread is wandering a bit (for the first time in history). Back on topic for a moment then you guys can return to worrying bones. One of the advantages of "not having a leader" is that it makes the tea party movement difficult to decapitate. Look how Palin got savaged - and you gotta admit, anyone savvy enough to get elected as governor of any of the 50 states didn't fall off a turnip truck. If a person is setup as a "leader" (be they Beck or Palin or Rush) they will immediately be slandered/smeared/disparaged. That's why Michael Steele gets so much respect from the MSM - he is non-threatening/ineffectual/neutered. The tea parties are a ground up movement, no matter how much the astro-turf meme is peddled. Just attend one (for educational purposes if nothing else) and talk to the other folks there. If you come away with the thought that they are organized for nefarious purposes by an unseen hand, well, you're off your meds. When will the next tea party be. That depends on local events (don't want to have one the weekend of the OSU-Michigan game for instance) and also on national events. If there is a major triggering event by the Dear Leader's administration, then an exercise could be organized very quickly by point-to-point facebook/myspace/tweeting. Look for national days - like Veteran's Day maybe (probably not Columbus Day) as the next target dates. And pay attention to what's going on in the blogosphere, which changes monthly (or more frequently if you follow NZ Bear). Okay - end of the the time out. Have at it again boyz.

[MaverickCowboy]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6538882

this made me laugh.

LA Times peddles the big lie about protests on its Sunday front page



front and center on page one the big headline says "anger in the streets of Washington" and makes the entire incident look like a spontaneous outburst of concerned citizens. Evidence here on DU and the internet make it perfectly clear the entire incident was organized by the republican party, health scam insurance companies, and various white right wing hate groups. There was NOTHING spontaneous about it.

And worst of all, the fact that this "protest" was pretty much a KKK rally was not even mentioned.

What a fraud article. Then again the Democratic Party INC refuses to fight back against this corporate manufactured white racist campaign, so why should the LA Times give a crap?

The Democratic Party INC is missing a huge chance to stand up against racism in a unified and organized manner but is failing to do so, abandoning its cherished 60's traditions. Here is a golden opportunity to hammer the Republikkkans back into the stone age yet it is being squandered.

Oh well, back to the usual.

Msongs

[Dominique]

"Republikkkans", well that's new. Another idiot adding fuel to the fire. I'm sure he spent a good little portion of the day coming up with that clever little moniker. :roll:

[G-AWZT]

I'm surprised I didn't see jackbooted thugs led by Jeanine Garofalo, Rachel Madcow, Keith Olbermann and Bill Maher try and break up the protests.
When it's a Dem pres. apparently nobody is supposed to speak out.

[3rdMillhouse]

Why are some americans so damn afraid of Obamacare? It's not like its gonna outlaw private healthcare and force every citizen to settle for a ****ty public excuse for a healthcare system, or is it?

[vryhpyammoadded]

I took a break from the weekend fencing project to catch up on all the Sunday morning propa… I mean news shows and a few blogs noting a common theme.

You guys dissing these folk protesting do know that the “let them eat cake” mentality or sticking fingers in your ears while screaming like a four year old, or the worst of you, actively spreading the party disinformation campaign line to suppress this minority voice and create the image that all protesters are fringe whack jobs without any valid issues, are aggravating a potentially dangerous situation that is entirely your own doing.

This country was founded upon laws respecting free discourse and hearing the minority opinion and to turn away from the Constitution, using these methods I am witness too, such as, shutting the other side out, ignoring, or manufacturing perception to avoid these peoples core argument, that the Federal government must shrink, and decentralize, invites dangerous precedent in future policy making. To continue to abuse these minority rights will only grow the philosophic fracture in this nation like deadly cancer.

Note, when I say minority, I am speaking of seats in the House and Senate as the summation of the collective whole and not actual public ratios. Surprisingly the numbers of the dissenting are substantial and near on par with the rude backers of the current regime with the actual majority of Americans clueless or wishing this would all just go away. There are multiple pluralities in this country and only one is really in charge at the moment. Still…

It’s obvious to me that the party(s) elite have decided, come hell or high water, to grow the Federal Government and transform this nation into what they believe is the better, brighter tomorrow. I disagree, believing their utopian vision presumptuous and doomed to failure because the party at its rotten core has failed these past few decades to demonstrate mature legislative self control over its urges to purchase license pandering to their constituency’s avarice for another’s money and time but most especially its own rapacious appetites for money, power and adulation.

The national legislative, regulatory process and more importantly good management of the largess have been abysmal and these little despots on the Hill must pay the penalty before I allow anyone to make one more bit of damaging, self serving legislation. Their regime must be deposed before this nation moves on to any proper, fair reform of the damages they and their greedy constituents caused.

Because of their hubris, their clear intent to ram whatever junk they please down people’s throats while expecting we love them for ripping us off, I say lock it up, paralyze the nation, give them nothing and do whatever it takes to force these corrupt sacks of sh*t out of office breaking the powerbrokers links into the largess at least temporarily so we can elect new politicians, hopefully reduce the federal, and by extension the power brokers, boots on our collective wallets.

Free industrious people responsible for their actions good or bad, distributed power, Federalism and governance by the people is the direction this country should go, not towards some artificial, mass marketed utopian BS run by a centralized, managerial elite lording over and socially engineering our lives into some interdependent, emasculated, creative economy of sheep.

What I’ve seen on TV read on the web and heard on the radio today disgusts me. It’s not the US I knew. Because of today’s daily dose of propaganda I am now officially fed up with the powers that be and turn my back on them like they’ve done me. No redemption, no negotiation they, and by extension, those who support them, must be removed from power.

P.S. Watch out Barry, I sense the Hill getting the hammer and nails ready for you. I wonder if this go around they can manage to dodge all their sin simply nailing another president to the cross. Somehow though, I think this time it’s gonna stick. 2010 and 2012 are going to be real interesting elections.

[Lao Yan Qiang]

When are we Americans going to realize that the President is not responsible for making the laws of this country, nor spending the tax money, nor declaring war? The only reason he ever gets to is because Congress is incapable of making the tough decision and gives the President (or acquiesces) the authority to do so. Two examples would be the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution or the recent loan President Bush authorized for GM and Chrysler.

The President isn't King. The President isn't the problem. He only gets 8 years. The problem is Congress. Republican and Democrat. They play us for idiots by making the focus of our anger some temporary occupant of the Oval Office while they rob us blind. Year after year after year. Maybe we are idiots. We keep playing along.

[Breerman]

Daily Mail reports that up to 2 million people were out protesting against Obama.

http://i30.tinypic.com/bgpelk.jpg

[Breerman]

Where were these folks when Bush ran 8 years of deficits and tax breaks for the rich?

Clinton gave Bush a surplus, and as a true conservative he spends it away.
With the help of a conservative parliament I think. Obama seems to have managed to spend more on bailouts during his short term in power than Bush did in eight years and two wars.

From an outside perspective I don't think this is about taxes.

[Victory]

Where to begin...I know...

Question: Have ANY of you read the healthcare bill, H.R.3200?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

-Vic

[Lao Yan Qiang]

Where to begin...I know...

Question: Have ANY of you read the healthcare bill, H.R.3200?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

-Vic

I skimmed through it. Thanks for posting it.

Show me someone who can understand it and I'll show you a lawyer, insurance employee, or a government bureaucrat. From the little I read I need access to the Social Security Act, Internal Revenue Code of 1986, Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, the Public Health Service Act , and the the HITECH Act to fully understand it. And of course another month or two of studying them all.

[brainplay]

Why are some americans so damn afraid of Obamacare? It's not like its gonna outlaw private healthcare and force every citizen to settle for a ****ty public excuse for a healthcare system, or is it?

Outlaw? No. Saddle us with a new tax money sink hole which does not address many of the current deficiencies, loopholes, nor wastes and which will attempt to control the market under new regulation while offering a "free" public option that the average slack jawed American will jump over because its they believe it to be "free" thereby eroding an industry and virtually overnight causing more joblessness in the current recession? Yes. That about sums it up.

Lao Yan Qiang is pretty much the typical response to this. Its too convoluted and over complicated for the average American to grasp and understand. I spent a good hour reading over the bill and can point out some large problems that stand (example: sec. 161-164) out but there are some sections that are over my head and require some heavy research to see how they interact with other aspects.

Haha, some of the other news outlets are only claiming "tens of thousands" showing up at the parties and showing condensed views of the crowds. Sad really...

[homegrowncat]

Gee....where were they when Bush started an optional war in Iraq?

http://costofwar.com/


Since there has been talk of the cost of war in Iraq, from the Congressional Research Service, on
May 15, 2009, CRS product, RL33110


...With enactment of the FY2008 Supplemental/FY2009 Bridge Fund(H.R. 2642/P.L. 110-252) on June 30, 2008, Congress has approved a total of about $864 billion for military operations, base security, reconstruction, foreign aid, embassy costs, and veterans’ health care for the three operations initiated since the 9/11 attacks: Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) Afghanistan and other counter terror operations; Operation Noble Eagle (ONE), providing enhanced security at military bases; and Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)...

[Klatuu]

Where were these folks when Bush ran a8 years of deficits and tax breaks for the rich?

Clinton gave Bush a surplus, and as a true conservative he spends it away.

I guess now that they see Obama running as big a deficit in 7 months as Bush did is 8 years, they got smart?

Don't complain now that they're on your side.

*Point of parliamentary procedure, for those who may not know, the Congress has to approve budgets before the president can sign them, so they get as much blame/credit.

[FullMetalJackass]

Classy.



Did you make that one up all by youself?


That is the best of what liberal "groupthink" can conjure up. Alinskys rules for radicals.

[Ordie]

That is the best of what liberal "groupthink" can conjure up. Alinskys rules for radicals.

I find it funny that the "tea bags" terminology is a confluence of American History and the Urban Dictionary.

[shocker1]

I find it funny that the "tea bags" terminology is a confluence of American History and the Urban Dictionary.
What is your problem? Do you have to go down to the level of a hack? Every post you make in regards to this is an effort to discredit these people speaking out.

[Bathinus]

What is your problem? Do you have to go down to the level of a hack? Every post you make in regards to this is an effort to discredit these people speaking out.

Lets face it, alot of these people are dumbasses and they discredit the normal people with concerns. When you ask them why they're there, they give some answer about Stalin, Hitler, Islam and birth certificates. Speaking out is good, but some of this stuff is getting extreme. It's painful to watch.

[seraosha]

Lets face it, alot of these people are dumbasses and they discredit the normal people with concerns. When you ask them why they're there, they give some answer about Stalin, Hitler, Islam and birth certificates. Speaking out is good, but some of this stuff is getting extreme. It's painful to watch.

Since we are being honest here, don't you think that discrediting people whose opinion differs with yours to be pedantic? Because the MM decides to interview a mouth breather, that disqualifies the entire idea of conservative protest? Maybe if there were better prepared "spontaneous interviews" like we have seen from our esteemed ACORN supporters, abortionists and socialist academic bottomfeeders it would have more resonance? Cooper Anderson was much better qualified in his mocking sophistry than you, but keep trying.

[shocker1]

Lets face it, a lot of these people are dumbasses and they discredit the normal people with concerns. When you ask them why they're there, they give some answer about Stalin, Hitler, Islam and birth certificates. Speaking out is good, but some of this stuff is getting extreme. It's painful to watch.
So who said Stalin, Hitler ect....? How many Bush protests with Nazi accusations with cool little signs with bush as Hitler? How many left leaning protests end in looting burning and violence verses the right which we have seen over the past few days? Does that even matter? People are upset, instead of finding reasons to ignore the issues or stoop to moral relativism or name calling lets be logical. Stop the bull**** and read the damn bills! I do and every damn time I post sections of those bills or want to discuss the scary facts of such no one bites? Is it because the name calling, character assassinations or moral relativism don't work anymore? Sit in silence in wait for the next idiot to point out and divert attention.

The whole political spectrum is filled with dumb asses as you call them. You and others would rather bitch about irrelevant things and pass by fundamental problems the people are pointing out. Granted both sides blow things up and use catchy words from past sinful creatures. It is up to us with some mental faculty left to raise the alarm.

[brainplay]

Lets face it, alot of these people are dumbasses and they discredit the normal people with concerns. When you ask them why they're there, they give some answer about Stalin, Hitler, Islam and birth certificates. Speaking out is good, but some of this stuff is getting extreme. It's painful to watch.


Lets face it, alot of these people are dumbasses and they discredit the normal people with concerns. When you ask them why they're there, they give some answer about Stalin, Hitler, Islam and birth certificates. Speaking out is good, but some of this stuff is getting extreme. It's painful to watch.

No, thats just what they want you to hear. If you really think 2 million Stalin/Hitler/Islam/birthers showed up at the Presidents door then Mr. President has alot more to worry about.

Sound bytes make the news. Given the right ones and you can make that crowd look like Million Man March II.

The protest is over healthcare. You and some some of the others here trying to divert credibility of the issue at hand by pulling this kind of stuff causes the entire damn nation to suffer. We're on the verge of passing the largest and most expensive single piece of legislation this country has seen possibly in its history. One piece of legislation, not a dozen!

This bill needs to be pulled apart, dissected, confirmed, explained in clear detail to the American people, and then and only then put up for a vote. Not shoved down our throats telling us whats good for us.

[shocker1]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1386


To amend section 1011 of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 (Public Law 108-173 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billsearch.xpd?q=P.L.+108-173)) to make permanent the program of Federal reimbursement of emergency health services furnished to undocumented aliens.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

[GlassHarp]

I find it funny that the "tea bags" terminology is a confluence of American History and the Urban Dictionary.

So is the "N" Word. Neither are appropriate to use. Grow up.

[wild_wild_wes]

....

The protest is over healthcare

....


The protests are about far more than health care. These are "Tea Party" protests, after all.

Yes health care is the current focal point, because it illustrates the basic problem....reform is being "shoved down our throats", just like everything else. The people no longer believe the system is serving us well; the politicians see the taxpayer as nothing more than a bottomless ATM machine.

[GlassHarp]

http://www.youtube.com/v/VzUrv3SdJdo&feature=player_embedded#t=352


Much more than health care.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

^ That is awesome. Asking the real Americans questions, then listen to the answers.

[plato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

^ That is awesome. Asking the real Americans questions, then listen to the answers.
These are my fellow Americans, not real or fake. They are just Americans.

[plato]

No, thats just what they want you to hear. If you really think 2 million Stalin/Hitler/Islam/birthers showed up at the Presidents door then Mr. President has alot more to worry about.

Sound bytes make the news. Given the right ones and you can make that crowd look like Million Man March II.

The protest is over healthcare. You and some some of the others here trying to divert credibility of the issue at hand by pulling this kind of stuff causes the entire damn nation to suffer. We're on the verge of passing the largest and most expensive single piece of legislation this country has seen possibly in its history. One piece of legislation, not a dozen!

This bill needs to be pulled apart, dissected, confirmed, explained in clear detail to the American people, and then and only then put up for a vote. Not shoved down our throats telling us whats good for us.

How did you come up with that number?

[Elbs]

That's a great way to foster positive debate... interview whoever can make themselves look stupid in front of camera.

[ilmakas]

No, thats just what they want you to hear. If you really think 2 million Stalin/Hitler/Islam/birthers showed up


http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5099/mallpicture.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/mallpicture.jpg/)

http://crooksandliars.com/kombiz/how-i-missed-2-million-person-teabagging-fl

when it comes to mass people gatherings only rock concerts (ticket sales) can claim with any certainty how many people are there. I think biggest of those are 150k people or so, from the pictures I have seen this event in DC wasn't as big.

[plato]

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5099/mallpicture.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/mallpicture.jpg/)

http://crooksandliars.com/kombiz/how-i-missed-2-million-person-teabagging-fl

when it comes to mass people gatherings only rock concerts (ticket sales) can claim with any certainty how many people are there. I think biggest of those are 150k people or so, from the pictures I have seen this event in DC wasn't as big.

I wanted to be "fair and balanced", so I went to FOX news, and was surprised to see FOX news not being "fair and balanced"! They did NOT report 2 million people were in DC protesting. Shame on FOX news! I thought they were "fair and balanced"!

[GlassHarp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

^ That is awesome. Asking the real Americans questions, then listen to the answers.

The interviewer in that video is ignorant. Fascism can be a form of Socialism. Also some of the czars do have executive power.

Estimates of the attendees given by news sources and safety services that I have seen range from 75,000 to 2,000,000.

Maybe you could stop snarking about fox news for 15 seconds and tells us what they reported attendance was. Thanks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html

Dailymail is reporting over a million. Could be wrong though i guess.

[Kaplanr]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1386

At least include the next line too - which indicates bipartisan approval of legislation from when the Democrats weren't in control of the House.


SEC. 2. MAKING PERMANENT THE PROGRAM OF FEDERAL REIMBURSEMENT OF EMERGENCY HEALTH SERVICES FURNISHED TO UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
(a) In General- Subsection (a)(1) of section 1011 of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 (Public Law 108-173) is amended--
(1) by inserting ‘and for each of fiscal years 2010 through 2014’ after ‘each of fiscal years 2005 through 2008’; and
(2) by adding at the end the following: ‘There are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary for fiscal year 2015 and each succeeding fiscal year such sums as may be necessary for such purpose.’.

[Kaplanr]

That's a great way to foster positive debate... interview whoever can make themselves look stupid in front of camera.

He really wasn't goading anyone. Some of them came up with some pretty stupid comments, and he asked "why do you believe that?" or could they give an example. May be random sampling or deliberate editing, but most of the folks interviewed have extreme opinions with little basis in fact or reason.

Not to say a Move-On protest might not have the same thing, but this wasn't Move-On.

[brainplay]

How did you come up with that number?

Several news agencies have reported that much. Anywhere from 500k to 2million (ABC news original claim now saying 70k). Mall is packed as well as Penn Ave. Size has already succeeded the Million Man March if you compare the photos. Lots of partisan shots being taken to lessen the number much like ilmakas is trying to do.

Ilmakas, thats the day after the rally. Ironically its the same photo they used to compared the 912 rally goers who picked up after themselves to the Obama inauguration which has trash all over the place. Although to be fair, the inauguration had fliers, handouts, and other fanfare handed out. There have even been attempts to claim that photos are frauds, photoshopped, etc. Alot of people going out of their way to discredit the ordeal.

[Chulo]

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5099/mallpicture.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/mallpicture.jpg/)

http://crooksandliars.com/kombiz/how-i-missed-2-million-person-teabagging-fl

when it comes to mass people gatherings only rock concerts (ticket sales) can claim with any certainty how many people are there. I think biggest of those are 150k people or so, from the pictures I have seen this event in DC wasn't as big.
You mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMXz6xGeqc

[Sakop]

I think the number was about +/-100,000. Just letting everone know (because I was there and involed in the TEA party).

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1473/marchtocap09.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/i/marchtocap09.jpg/)

[Bathinus]

Since we are being honest here, don't you think that discrediting people whose opinion differs with yours to be pedantic? Because the MM decides to interview a mouth breather, that disqualifies the entire idea of conservative protest? Maybe if there were better prepared "spontaneous interviews" like we have seen from our esteemed ACORN supporters, abortionists and socialist academic bottomfeeders it would have more resonance? Cooper Anderson was much better qualified in his mocking sophistry than you, but keep trying.


I said they discredit normal people with concerns. The extremists **** it up for everyone. How did you miss that part of my post?

I knew as soon as I posted all you big patriots would miss that part and act like I said all concerned people are idiots.

But here's an example: thousands holding signs "Bury Obama with Kennedy"

Talk about no class.


Or another gem from the crowd "I just talked to 2 Russian people AND THEY ARE SCARED!!!"

Lmao I'm sorry it is clear plenty of these people are morons. They build up some mythical fear and threat. Not to mention Obama is just doing WHAT HE SAID HE'D DO THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN. They knew what his plan was WTF?

It's pretty obvious what's happening here, don't have to be a genius. The same people who were calling the Bush and war protestors extremists and wacko's are now calling Obama protestors patriots and freedom fighters. It's so lame and sad.

[Bathinus]

So who said Stalin, Hitler ect....? How many Bush protests with Nazi accusations with cool little signs with bush as Hitler? How many left leaning protests end in looting burning and violence verses the right which we have seen over the past few days? Does that even matter? People are upset, instead of finding reasons to ignore the issues or stoop to moral relativism or name calling lets be logical. Stop the bull**** and read the damn bills! I do and every damn time I post sections of those bills or want to discuss the scary facts of such no one bites? Is it because the name calling, character assassinations or moral relativism don't work anymore? Sit in silence in wait for the next idiot to point out and divert attention.

The whole political spectrum is filled with dumb asses as you call them. You and others would rather bitch about irrelevant things and pass by fundamental problems the people are pointing out. Granted both sides blow things up and use catchy words from past sinful creatures. It is up to us with some mental faculty left to raise the alarm.
Yup.

And what have "I" bitched about? So now you know ME so well you know just what group I fall into. Keep dreaming.

Nothing wrong with protests, but the way this whole thing is going down is just downright ugly. Zero class and respect. Look like a bunch of hicks. Now someone will say "those hicks are Americans they pay their taxes!". Ok, so? Doesn't make them right about anything. Doesn't make them any more respectable. Just like I said, the dumbasses in the crowds discredit the normal people. What exactly is wrong with that statement? If anything you should agree with it, if you're one of the normal ones. Some of you guys get too mad over the obvious truth. That's the perception of these people, and it's like that FOR A REASON. It's not an accident.

[seasch]

Meh, this guy is just as much an loud angry partisan idiot as those he complains about. A reporter reporting from a protest couldnt be heard in the crowd?

No ****, quelle surprise

I really love him. True, he is much louder, than myself. True, sometimes his videos are boring and him shouting is just obnoxious. True, I wouldn't approve hand-grenades or other weapons used against (even such) protesters.

But what he is telling is the truth. And he is more intelligent than he sounds when you listen to him for the first time.

[chauncy republicans]

That's the perception of these people, and it's like that FOR A REASON. It's not an accident.
No, your right it's not an accident. The closed minded, dialogue fearing liberals on T.V., who tell you what to think, created the perception. The rest is left to the zombies to incessantly parrot what they say.
So keep being a good boy and don't stop repeating what the TV tells you.
You'll get your brains after the work is done.

[seasch]

^ That is awesome. Asking the real Americans questions, then listen to the answers.

Oh boy, am I scared.

I know, this is like Borat and Brüno. Sacha Baron Cohen, like a lot of others, have an agenda. In Borat, he wanted to show how racist the Americans am and in Brüno how fake the fashion people are. So he goes, does a lot of interviews, not of course the brightest and best, but those who will make people laugh.

The normal guys, you don't show, because that is not funny.

Here we have someone wanting to show how stupid the protesters are, and of course he finds a lot of stupid people.

Probalby Glenn Beck should become POTAS with Sarah Palin as VP. That might cure them once and for all.

[LongShot]

Yup.

And what have "I" bitched about? So now you know ME so well you know just what group I fall into. Keep dreaming.

Nothing wrong with protests, but the way this whole thing is going down is just downright ugly. Zero class and respect. Look like a bunch of hicks. Now someone will say "those hicks are Americans they pay their taxes!". Ok, so? Doesn't make them right about anything. Doesn't make them any more respectable. Just like I said, the dumbasses in the crowds discredit the normal people. What exactly is wrong with that statement? If anything you should agree with it, if you're one of the normal ones. Some of you guys get too mad over the obvious truth. That's the perception of these people, and it's like that FOR A REASON. It's not an accident.


And of course any media coverage is going to be unbias and even handed right? Every crowd has its extremists, either in what sign they carry our how much of a gold mine a sound bite from them could be. The media have a self serving interest in coving the extremes of a protest, if for nothing else than pure ratings ammunition. Its also interesting to note that many hecklers found in crowds have no real political motivation, and would just as soon down Bush as they would Obama, given theres a camera around and they can get some mileage out of an offensive sign.

This is not a new phenomenon, its been around since, well, society. I tend to side with the total majority on a protest for the point. Seems like the point here was peaceful, direct, and motivated....not childish and heckling.

[seraosha]

I said they discredit normal people with concerns. The extremists **** it up for everyone. How did you miss that part of my post?

I knew as soon as I posted all you big patriots would miss that part and act like I said all concerned people are idiots.

But here's an example: thousands holding signs "Bury Obama with Kennedy"

Talk about no class.


Or another gem from the crowd "I just talked to 2 Russian people AND THEY ARE SCARED!!!"

Lmao I'm sorry it is clear plenty of these people are morons. They build up some mythical fear and threat. Not to mention Obama is just doing WHAT HE SAID HE'D DO THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN. They knew what his plan was WTF?

It's pretty obvious what's happening here, don't have to be a genius. The same people who were calling the Bush and war protestors extremists and wacko's are now calling Obama protestors patriots and freedom fighters. It's so lame and sad.

Wow man, did you buy into the meme about cap-lock being cruise control for cool? Address my post or STFU...discuss the merits or flaws, not hysterical shrieking as your panties twist. We get it, you are new here and are looking to join the throngs of hand wringing Pelosi-wanna-bee..awesome, just express an idea, discuss it's merits/flaws and you'll get responses that do more than point out your errors.

You are off to a wonderful start cupcake, just try and bring your "A game" for your next post on this thread.

Here is an easy one...what should a libertarian/conservative protest look like?

[shocker1]

Yup.

And what have "I" bitched about? So now you know ME so well you know just what group I fall into. Keep dreaming.

Nothing wrong with protests, but the way this whole thing is going down is just downright ugly. Zero class and respect. Look like a bunch of hicks. Now someone will say "those hicks are Americans they pay their taxes!". Ok, so? Doesn't make them right about anything. Doesn't make them any more respectable. Just like I said, the dumbasses in the crowds discredit the normal people. What exactly is wrong with that statement? If anything you should agree with it, if you're one of the normal ones. Some of you guys get too mad over the obvious truth. That's the perception of these people, and it's like that FOR A REASON. It's not an accident.
I don't know you. I have no desire to. I do however know that with your name calling and belittling of these people instead of discussing the issues that brought them out is childish at best. The truth is what we want and are not getting. Yes you are sweeping a wide brush. Let's just boil it down to this. Man is comprised of many ignorant, vindictive and nasty people. Therefore the entire human race has no one to speak because the bad apples have made rotten the whole damn bunch. This infestation of Earth must end. Thank you for confirming my assertions with your post.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I don't know you. I have no desire to. I do however know that with your name calling and belittling of these people instead of discussing the issues that brought them out is childish at best.

Well put, how-ever I would go a step farther and say some don't even know what the issues are. If you are going to attend any protest you would think before hand you would be pretty well versed in the issues and be ready to back your beliefs with facts. Problem is people search for the "facts" from sources traditionally that align with there beliefs, which leaves no room for debate.

If you want to see childish, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7XH8lfGMc

You can even see people attempt to rip down his sign! Civil I think not, as a whole they cannot even handle 1 protesters dissent. I like the comment about 2:54 seconds in when someone screams "You better have a police escort". You think you can actually discuss issues with those people?

[shocker1]

Agent Provocateur?

The whole country has adopted playground political discourse. It is about the issues but we are still finding excuses to ignore them. Core issue utter lack of leadership in DC. All others are symptomatic.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Agent Provocateur?

Possibly, or he is just voicing his right to free speech and protest?


Heated partisan debate over President Obama's health care plan, erupting at town hall meetings and in the blogosphere, has more to do with our illogical thought processes than reality, sociologists are finding.

The problem: People on both sides of the political aisle often work backward from a firm conclusion to find supporting facts, rather than letting evidence inform their views.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090826/sc_livescience/healthcaredebatebasedontotallackoflogic

It worth a read, I think I have posted it here before.

[L8apex]

Just to be Fair and Balanced, I want to show the people who showed up to Washington DC supporting the Govt/Public Option for Healthcare. 11:15 to 2:45pm on Sunday Sept 13th 2009.

Notice they are walking in a circle around a fountain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXo-13UQKcw&feature=player_embedded

Why didn't the Media report this?

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/letsgetitdonehealthinsurancereformnowevents/gpkglj
http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/gpkgl3

"CITIES across the Nation are joining forces to let our Voices be heard. A National March for Healthcare is planned for Sunday, September 13th at High NOON in Washington DC and in various cities across the USA."

Health Care Rally WASHINGTON -SEPT 13 (Health Care Organizing Event)
ALL POINTS CALL TO ACTION!@@@@@ UPDATE @@@@@@@
BE prepared. Many groups are coming in with no single sponsor. We must work together to make this a successful event! WEAR COMFORTABLE SHOES, THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ACCESS TO BATHROOMS. Be prepared for crowds. We are joining with American's United for Health Care Reform. AS WITH ANY LARGE GATHERING, PLEASE BE SMART; BE PREPARED STAY SAFE AND DON'T GET PROVOKED.@@@@@@Participate of your own accord@@@@ Neither Change Oklahoma nor Candace Richerson makes any claims in regard to the outcome of this event, nor are they responsible for person or property.

Join Change Oklahoma as we Rally in Washington D.C. in solidarity with progressive groups across the county! NOW IS THE TIME. IF NOT NOW, WHEN???

Change is with in our grasp. We have been silent too long allowing the far-right to distort the message.

If you can come, we currently have a few rooms booked at the Residence Inn Fairfax Merrifield in Falls Church VA. It is a 15 minute train ride into the heart of D.C. We have flights booked on Southwest into Baltimore for $232 round trip. Time is of the essence to get the cheap airfare.

You are responsible for securing your flight and your hotel. We are flying into Baltimore via SouthWest.

Meet at the Upper Senate Park, just North of the Capitol at noon. This will be a peaceful rally!!!

If you CAN'T GO TO D.C.- look for the Oklahoma City Change Oklahoma March on the State Capitol event here on this site.
Times: Sunday, September 13 at 11:00 AM
Host: Candace Richerson
Contact Phone: 405-517-4754
Location:
Upper Senate Park (Washington, DC)
Washington, DC 20510
Directions: North of the Capitol between C Street and Constitution and New Jersey and Delaware. Just to the south-west of Union Station.
Associated Groups: Central Oklahomans for Obama, Oklahoma Women for Obama, Oklahomans for Obama
OTHER SIGNUPS
Sunday, September 13 shifts:
4 people have signed up to attend the shift at 11:00 AM - 5:00 PM.

[Hollis]

Possibly, or he is just voicing his right to free speech and protest?


.


If you believe that, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Also 5 cops as a escort? He seem to have gotten you to believe.

Not to mention the camera person.............

[Chulo]

Yup.

And what have "I" bitched about? So now you know ME so well you know just what group I fall into. Keep dreaming.

Nothing wrong with protests, but the way this whole thing is going down is just downright ugly. Zero class and respect. Look like a bunch of hicks. Now someone will say "those hicks are Americans they pay their taxes!". Ok, so? Doesn't make them right about anything. Doesn't make them any more respectable. Just like I said, the dumbasses in the crowds discredit the normal people. What exactly is wrong with that statement? If anything you should agree with it, if you're one of the normal ones. Some of you guys get too mad over the obvious truth. That's the perception of these people, and it's like that FOR A REASON. It's not an accident.
Good to know that someone belives that people are too stupid to think for themselves and so need a smarter, more caring, intelligent person to make their decisions. With Stalin gone, Castro too sick, Chavez busy with South Africa and who knows whats up with Kim, we better get someone else of our own.

[Ordie]

Chavez busy with South Africa.

Did I miss something?

[Chulo]

Did I miss something?
Mistake.. South America :P

[seasch]

If you believe that, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Also 5 cops as a escort? He seem to have gotten you to believe.

Not to mention the camera person.............

I might get flack disagreeing with you, but here I go.

An agent provocateur is someone (according to wikipedia) who (is) employed by the police or other entity to act undercover to entice or provoke ... an illegal act. More generally, the term may refer to a person or group that seeks to discredit or harm another by provoking them to commit a wrong or rash action.

If he were an agent provocateur according to the first part of the definition, there wouldn't be police officers in uniform. It makes no sence to try to provoke someone to do something illegal and show up in force.

The police sometimes uses such tactics to catch people stealing cars. They place an expensive (and modified) car in a bad area and wait for someone to try to seal it. This of course would fail, if there were police cars with flashing lights around the bait.

The other meaning of agent provocateur is a valid tactic used by a lot of journalists. Michael Moore does it (not that I think he is very good at it or that he is right in everything he does), Sasha Baron Cohne (as Borat and Brüno) does it. You can believe, that it is unfair and I agree, that in some cases (or some people) heat the discussion up far too much.

But threats that were made in that video and the shouting is not acceptable, when someone is just carrying a sign.

In Basel, there is a guy who in summer wears T-Shirts saying something like "Jesus Christ is the greatest worst of all times". Even though I don't agree with that statement, I accept his right to express his feelings. Something that is protected in your country far more than it is in mine.

[brainplay]

The other meaning of agent provocateur is a valid tactic used by a lot of journalists. Michael Moore does it (not that I think he is very good at it or that he is right in everything he does), Sasha Baron Cohne (as Borat and Brüno) does it. You can believe, that it is unfair and I agree, that in some cases (or some people) heat the discussion up far too much.

But threats that were made in that video and the shouting is not acceptable, when someone is just carrying a sign.

Journalists aren't the only ones who use that tactic. Walking through a crowd protesting against what he is holding up is a tactic to invoke a response and create a distraction. He could have done that at any other time or in other locations but instead decided to do so during their protests.

I heard alot of people yelling to get the f**k out of there but I heard no threats. I heard alot of booing. But then if he's free to express his opinion, so are those that oppose his ideals. Free speech does not mean you subjugate yourself to someone else's protest first before continuing on with your which is what he was doing anyway. His actions had consequences which in his case was public humiliation. About the only thing that crowd did wrong was try and take down his sign which is his own property.

[plato]

Several news agencies have reported that much. Anywhere from 500k to 2million (ABC news original claim now saying 70k). Mall is packed as well as Penn Ave. Size has already succeeded the Million Man March if you compare the photos. Lots of partisan shots being taken to lessen the number much like ilmakas is trying to do.

Ilmakas, thats the day after the rally. Ironically its the same photo they used to compared the 912 rally goers who picked up after themselves to the Obama inauguration which has trash all over the place. Although to be fair, the inauguration had fliers, handouts, and other fanfare handed out. There have even been attempts to claim that photos are frauds, photoshopped, etc. Alot of people going out of their way to discredit the ordeal.

Were there a lot of people protesting? Yes. But, 1.5 million people? NO!
Were their concerns important? Yes. But, other people's concerns are equally important.

Why do I think there weren't 1.5 million people protesting? I ran the L.A. marathon in May. This is what 20000 people looked like:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=356&pictureid=16270
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=356&pictureid=16269
1.5 million would be 75 times 20000. Now, tell me if that is what you saw on Sep 12th, in DC.

[seasch]

Why do I think there weren't 1.5 million people protesting? I ran the L.A. marathon in May. This is what 20000 people looked like:

1.5 million would be 75 times 20000. Now, tell me if that is what you saw on Sep 12th, in DC.

Thanks for showing those pictures. Assessing the amount of people in a crowd is very difficult to do. Even counting everyone would not necessary produce the right numbers, as people move around or even might have gone or not having even arrived when you were counting.