Israel, Serbia Abolish Visa Restrictions

[Zeev]

Belgrade | 16 September 2009 | Bojana Barlovac


Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and his Serbian counterpart Vuk Jeremic have signed a visa-free travel agreement in Belgrade, broadcaster RTS reports Wednesday.

The ministers agreed that the deal will help boost economic and other ties between the two countries.

“The agreement will remove obstacles for Serbian businesspeople and tourists who would [like] come to Israel,” the broadcaster quoted Lieberman as saying.

It was the first official visit to Serbia by an Israeli foreign minister. Quoted by AP, Lieberman said that Israel has a "history of friendly relations" with Serbia, adding that Serbs and Jews fought together against the Nazis.

The ministers agreed that only new talks with Pristina could lead to resolving the issue of Kosovo's status.

Jeremic told reporters at the press conference, held after the meeting, that he deeply appreciates Israel’s stance regarding the Kosovo issue.

Lieberman also met with other Serbian high officials: President Boris Tadic, Prime Minister Mirko Cvetkovic and Defence Minister Dragan Sutanovac. The Israeli minister has also visited Croatia and is heading to Montenegro on Thursday.



Serbian, Israeli FMs sign visa-free deal 16 September 2009 | 16:42 | Source: Beta, Tanjug

BELGRADE -- Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić and his Israeli counterpart Avigdor Lieberman have signed an agreement to abolish visas between the two countries.

The two ministers welcomed the signing, stating that it was an important step in the development of bilateral relations.

“This removes the obstacle to Serbian businesspeople and tourists that want to come to Israel,” Lieberman said.

Jeremić and Lieberman said that only new negotiations between Belgrade and Priština could yield a permanent solution to the Kosovo status question.

The Serbian minister said that he thanked Lieberman for Israel’s firm position regarding Kosovo.

“I am very thankful to Israel for its position on Kosovo, and especially to Mr. Lieberman personally for his part in making such a decision. Israel does not recognize the unilateral declaration of Kosovo independence and that is something that we appreciate greatly, especially given the pressure that Israel has been under,” Jeremić told a joint press conference.

Lieberman said that through direct talks between the two sides, a peaceful solution could be found to the Kosovo problem.

Asked whether Israel was under pressure to recognize Kosovo, Lieberman said that Israel “has been under pressure on many issues since 1948 and can handle it.”

The two ministers agreed that relations between the two countries on all issues were good, and that relations would further improve with the visa agreement.

He said that economic cooperation was also good and that Israeli investment in Serbia was on the rise, despite the financial crisis.

Lieberman will also be meeting with President Boris Tadić, Prime Minister Mirko Cvetković and Defense Minister Dragan Šutanovac.

As part of a Balkan tour, the Israeli foreign minister visited Croatia on Tuesday and will head to Montenegro on Thursday, which will be the first visit by an Israeli official to Montenegro since it gained independence.




SOURCES: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/22267/ and http://www6.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=09&dd=16&nav_id=61806

[Sumadinac]

Good news ! Let's hope that this bilateral cooperation will increase, especially in the military area. ;-)

[hulaku]

Good news for both countries.

[jaybe]

same as Russia right?

[OrangeWolf]

My best wishes for Serbian-Israeli cooperation on any level. Very nice.

[V.I.D.]

My best wishes for Serbian-Israeli cooperation on any level. Very nice.

X 2

It's a very good news, indeed.

[Zeev]

same as Russia right?

what do you mean by same as russia?

[Player]

what do you mean by same as russia?

Not so long ago Israel abolished visa restrictions with Russia as well, so I guess that's what he asked about.

[Sousuke]

X 2

It's a very good news, indeed.
x3

Definitely good news :)

[1911-a1]

Great news :D

[Zeev]

Not so long ago Israel abolished visa restrictions with Russia as well, so I guess that's what he asked about.

I see, indeed it is the same.

[Schmeiser]

This is good news for Serbs that's for sure,but...I ask my self why after all what Serbia have with Israel and Jews ,80% of muslims countries don't recognize Kosovo and support Serbia 100% ...i can't believe how much muslims in the world are naive rofl:cantbeli: LOL...I am an Albanian Catholic, but I have to say that if this continues i no one in Kosovo will want to be Muslim lol......i ask my self,what we Albanians have from muslims ?? only Turkey and few muslim countries recognize Kosovo and support us,others i can say "hate us"...but anyway who fu'' them...Albanians will again be Christians as before in the history so i can say,I'm glad that 80% of muslims in the world don't support us,we don't need them...

btw i must say Jews are also naive,before 2 months Palestinian president was been in Belgrad and he get support from Serbian president and goverment about "palestian state" ,Boris Tadic say "we support the right of Palestinians for their state" ,Serbia is also very good with all muslim countries that hate Israel more than anything,Iran, Non-Aligneds etc...This policy is very strange, it's difficult to understand what happens there...

[sheytanelkebir]

schmeiser... just live and let live.

life becomes much more uncomplicated afterwards. visa free travel simply means more openess for people to travel for leisure, business, personal visits without hassle. The more such deals happen the better people's lives become.

think about it this way. Israeli arabs can go to serbia without visa now, and serbian muslims can visit jerusalem without visa too... ditto for catholics

if the nonn-recognition of Kosovo by "muslim" states pushes kosovars away from islam, then that's a bonus for you too (since you're catholic)...

[BW2]

Schmeiser, if you feel Albania should reevaluate its relationship with Muslim countries because they haven't done what you 'want them to' essentially then go ahead, not I nor anyone else here really gives a load.

To clarify (albeit completely unnecessary) what President Tadic said to the visiting Palestinian authorities. He supports their right to govern their own affairs and co-exist with Israel. Never was the idea of a Palestinian state in place of Israel ever mentioned.

[Schmeiser]

schmeiser... just live and let live.

life becomes much more uncomplicated afterwards. visa free travel simply means more openess for people to travel for leisure, business, personal visits without hassle. The more such deals happen the better people's lives become.

think about it this way. Israeli arabs can go to serbia without visa now, and serbian muslims can visit jerusalem without visa too... ditto for catholics


achh you're right 100% maybe you don't understand me very good or maybe I'm wrong ****ounced but i tell,I think that's good for Serbia and that's nice and no one call tell that's not true,Serbia got visa liberalization with all and every honor them this way,but I want to tell,I'm sick of Albanian policy and their inability...when i see that Albania who is in NATO don't have visa liberalization and countries like Macedonia,Montenegro whatever have,I'm crazy...I'm crazy when i see how dirty assholes we have of policy...how someone can be so incapable...they donn't know how to lobby, they do not travel around the world and looking for partners like Serbian or someother policy in balkan do, they do not fight for Albanian interests, they think that all will come only from NOWEHERE...they should be ashamed...what they expect,only AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA,what HOLY AMERICA ??? what we have of licking American ass ?? they think America will do everything for us,yea for sure...America will give us visa liberalization with Europe,America will search partners in the world for ourselfs...
You know,I'm not glad that i must say it,but Serbian policy and diplomacy is 10000 times better than our grotesque puppets...and not only Serbian,all countries have better diplomacy than Albanians,even and countries like Chad...
We need revolution...that's for sure...they all smells of incompetence...the biggest shame for Albanian people ever...unable corrupt gang...that can be authority in Kosovo and Albania, i would crush the Mafia, corruption and all the gangs and cleaned the living space for Albanian people...so now i can say only 10 points for Serbian policy and diplomacy...I am a fighter, do not give a ****, and I can not watch incompetent people...

[hulaku]

Scmeiser it was nice having you around.

[tea drinker]

You know,I'm not glad that i must say it,but Serbian policy and diplomacy is 10000 times better than our grotesque puppets...and not only Serbian,all countries have better diplomacy than Albanians,even and countries like Chad...
They have plenty of diplomatic experience from sitting between Western aligned Nations and USSR, and as already noted ME.

It's not like the other countries you mention don't have problems with the politicians or corruption - but they are still able to get a few things done. It's a problem everywhere, more or less.

Your Politicians in Kosovo and Albania need to get on a steep learning curve. And the voters need to be mature enough to pick the right candidates. If the politicians can always blame someone else (NATO / EULEX /EU /Serbia / Jupiter) they will. Rather than face their own repsonsibilities.... And if the people let them off the hook - tough. The politicians are paid to do a job, if they don't do it fvck them out on the next election, no excuses.

Bad quality politicians and parochial tendencies were the solid foundation for the breakup of YU.

Anyway, it's good news for Serbia to make some progress and normalise relations.

[Zeev]

btw i must say Jews are also naive,before 2 months Palestinian president was been in Belgrad and he get support from Serbian president and goverment about "palestian state" ,Boris Tadic say "we support the right of Palestinians for their state" ,Serbia is also very good with all muslim countries that hate Israel more than anything,Iran, Non-Aligneds etc...This policy is very strange, it's difficult to understand what happens there...

What is the problem with that? the majority of israelis and the US gvt are also in favour of an indepandant palestinian state, only crazy people still think that a palestinian state shouldn't be created, so why we should have a problem with serbian support of a palestinian state while 100% of our other partners (US, EU, etc) think the same?

Your problem with the serbian nation looks obvious.

[Bathinus]

This is good news for Serbs that's for sure,but...I ask my self why after all what Serbia have with Israel and Jews ,80% of muslims countries don't recognize Kosovo and support Serbia 100% ...i can't believe how much muslims in the world are naive rofl:cantbeli: LOL...I am an Albanian Catholic, but I have to say that if this continues i no one in Kosovo will want to be Muslim lol......i ask my self,what we Albanians have from muslims ?? only Turkey and few muslim countries recognize Kosovo and support us,others i can say "hate us"...but anyway who fu'' them...Albanians will again be Christians as before in the history so i can say,I'm glad that 80% of muslims in the world don't support us,we don't need them...

btw i must say Jews are also naive,before 2 months Palestinian president was been in Belgrad and he get support from Serbian president and goverment about "palestian state" ,Boris Tadic say "we support the right of Palestinians for their state" ,Serbia is also very good with all muslim countries that hate Israel more than anything,Iran, Non-Aligneds etc...This policy is very strange, it's difficult to understand what happens there...

dude...its politics..business...has 0 to do with religions or ethnicity

and some countries with majority Muslim populations have recognized

Saudi Arabia
Turkey
UAE
Malaysia
Gambia
Comoros
Bahrain
Jordan
Sierra Leone
Burkina Faso
Afghanistan


and you know more is coming

but lol Albanian catholics are always like this. A fiesty bunch.

the part in this article that makde me chuckle a little was the "common history of fighting nazis". as if serbia has any more of a "nazi fighter" status then most european countries.

[Sousuke]

the part in this article that makde me chuckle a little was the "common history of fighting nazis". as if serbia has any more of a "nazi fighter" status then most european countries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

K thx bye.

[Bathinus]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

K thx bye.

I don't see Serbia on this chart. I see Yugoslavia. And in Yugoslavia both BiH and Croatia had more casualties. Second what do casualties have to do with any of the statements made? Alot of Serb civilians died in Jasenovac for example, and whats that have to do with being big "Nazi fighters"? What does alot of people in Yugoslavia dying (mostly because of interethnic fighting) have to do with this?

Fail.

As many Serbs that fought against "Nazis" in the partizans (which was a multi-ethnic force), even more collaborated with them in the chetniks. Not to mention what they did to Jews, which Jewish survivors themselves have testified. Then when chetniks "went out of style" alot of them defected to partizans. Same with ustasha, they defected to cover their ass. This is why I chuckled. Like every other country it had some people against, some for. Nothing special.

And I'm allowed to chuckle, if it bothers you I duno what to tell you. You derailing this thread by taking one insignificant comment from a post and making the whole thread about it.

[Sousuke]

If u failed to see this is a military chart, an allied military chart, and if i remember correctly, Croatia was on the axis side, so we chould say "Serbia" was the majority of Yugoslavia at that time. Second, it has to do with statement u made:


as if serbia has any more of a "nazi fighter" status then most european countries.

Dont get me wrong, all i stated was that Yugo did carry much of a bigger load of fighting then it actually seems. BTW Serbia is, historically, the successor of Yugo.

There is also some truth that i wanted to be a **** to you...just for this little phrase


and you know more is coming

But whatever, i'm done here anyways.

[21stArmada]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

K thx bye.


Thnx for this chart, I did not know China has had such a loss. Wow.

Congrats to both Serbia and Israel, this is very good news.

[Bathinus]

If u failed to see this is a military chart, an allied military chart, and if i remember correctly, Croatia was on the axis side, so we chould say "Serbia" was the majority of Yugoslavia at that time. Second, it has to do with statement u made:

Dont get me wrong, all i stated was that Yugo did carry much of a bigger load of fighting then it actually seems. BTW Serbia is, historically, the successor of Yugo.

What the countries government is "officialy" aligned with didn't mean much then. Croatia was offiicaly on axis side yet tons of Croats fought in partizans and died by Ustasha hands and the Partizan leader was a Croat.

If you weren't aware, Serbia was officialy a Nazi puppet state too. Most seem to forget this. But does the government speak for all the people? Obviosly not. Serbia was the first to be declared "Judenfrei", Jew free. The truth is not nearly so black and white. Jews suffered at the hands of ALL. Croats, Serbs, Bosniaks, Albanians etc. All had people on both sides. So all I'm saying is Serbia was not special, not hordes of jew killers, but also not the collective saviours of the Jewish people. I mean, dude, there was even Jews who helped the Nazis.

Might wonna read this. Written by a Jew obviosly.

"Serbia's secret war: propaganda and the deceit of history" By Philip J. Cohen, David Riesma

So do Jews today just not know the details, or do they willingly belive the black and white fairy tale of "Croat bad, Serb good" cuz it's easier? It's kind of insulting to the victims to ignore some of these things no?







There is also some truth that i wanted to be a **** to you...just for this little phraselol ok :)

[Sousuke]

What the countries government is "officialy" aligned with didn't mean much then. Croatia was offiicaly on axis side yet tons of Croats fought in partizans and died by Ustasha hands and the Partizan leader was a Croat.

If you weren't aware, Serbia was officialy a Nazi puppet state too. Most seem to forget this. But does the government speak for all the people? Obviosly not. Serbia was the first to be declared "Judenfrei", Jew free. The truth is not nearly so black and white. Jews suffered at the hands of ALL. Croats, Serbs, Bosniaks, Albanians etc. All had people on both sides. So all I'm saying is Serbia was not special, not hordes of jew killers, but also not the collective saviours of the Jewish people. I mean, dude, there was even Jews who helped the Nazis.

Might wonna read this. Written by a Jew obviosly.

"Serbia's secret war: propaganda and the deceit of history" By Philip J. Cohen, David Riesma

So do Jews today just not know the details, or do they willingly belive the black and white fairy tale of "Croat bad, Serb good" cuz it's easier? It's kind of insulting to the victims to ignore some of these things no?


Yugo (Serbia or whatever) was a puppet state, but not for long...let me tell u the most famous phrase: "Bolje rat, nego pakt, bolje grob nego rob" and so was the age of the puppet Yugo over, until it was occupied by the axis arround the 17th of April, 1941, but the resistance (Partisans, Chetniks, whatever) were more than active. Nationaly, it is quite dumb to compare who is who and what is what. I am sure that there were Croats, Serbs, Bosnjaks, Hungarians, even Germans and god knows who more in resistance all arround. In this case it is really hard to pinpoint today, witch of the countries was acually Yugo. Officialy, it is Serbia, by all means, therefore Serbia has the right to that herritage, history and title.

[Bathinus]

Yugo (Serbia or whatever) was a puppet state, but not for long...let me tell u the most famous phrase: "Bolje rat, nego pakt, bolje grob nego rob" and so was the age of the puppet Yugo over, until it was occupied by the axis arround the 17th of April, 1941, but the resistance (Partisans, Chetniks, whatever) were more than active. Nationaly, it is quite dumb to compare who is who and what is what. I am sure that there were Croats, Serbs, Bosnjaks, Hungarians, even Germans and god knows who more in resistance all arround. In this case it is really hard to pinpoint today, witch of the countries was acually Yugo. Officialy, it is Serbia, by all means, therefore Serbia has the right to that herritage, history and title.

lol you're confusing Yugoslavia with Serbia itself. They are not synonymous. Yugoslavia backed out of it's alliance with Hitler fast, then was conquered basicly and chopped up. Ceased to exist.

then Serbia was established as a puppet state from 1941-1944

serbs call it "Nedic's Serbia"

In April 1941, Germany and its allies invaded and occupied Yugoslavia. After the defeat, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was carved up, the territory that was not given to the surrounding Axis neighbors, including the new Nazi-puppet Independent State of Croatia in the west, Italian-occupied territories in the south, Hungarian-occupied territories in the north-west, and Bulgarian-occupied territories in the south-east, became part of a German Serbian collaborationist administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_%281941%E2%80%931944%29

there was no more yugoslavia for that time. just Serbia, Croatia etc. all puppet states.

And second, you don't seem to even know who chetniks and partizans are clearly. It's not just "whatever". Chetniks spent more time fighting partizans then anyone else.

[Sousuke]

Ok, u are right, yes there was no Yugo then, it was nedic's Serbia....whatever, my point is that Serbia is the rightful and official successor of Yugoslavia.

I lack the power and will for a long ass discussion, nor is this the place for one.

The end.

[Bathinus]

Ok, u are right, yes there was no Yugo then, it was nedic's Serbia....whatever, my point is that Serbia is the rightful and official successor of Yugoslavia.

I lack the power and will for a long ass discussion, nor is this the place for one.

The end.

Agreed, we are finished :)

[Stefan850]

I don't see Serbia on this chart. I see Yugoslavia. And in Yugoslavia both BiH and Croatia had more casualties. Second what do casualties have to do with any of the statements made? Alot of Serb civilians died in Jasenovac for example, and whats that have to do with being big "Nazi fighters"? What does alot of people in Yugoslavia dying (mostly because of interethnic fighting) have to do with this?

Fail.

As many Serbs that fought against "Nazis" in the partizans (which was a multi-ethnic force), even more collaborated with them in the chetniks. Not to mention what they did to Jews, which Jewish survivors themselves have testified. Then when chetniks "went out of style" alot of them defected to partizans. Same with ustasha, they defected to cover their ass. This is why I chuckled. Like every other country it had some people against, some for. Nothing special.

And I'm allowed to chuckle, if it bothers you I duno what to tell you. You derailing this thread by taking one insignificant comment from a post and making the whole thread about it.

You say that Croatia and BiH had more casualties. Yes, you are probably right because Serbs in Serbia were under German occupation while Serbs in Croatia were left to be slaughtered by Ustase.

My family was slaughtered also, my grandfathers mother, two sisters there children etc. They were peaceful fishermen in a village called Sibuljina near Zadar.

Yad Vashem center says that 500 000 Serbs got killed by the hands of Croats, Simon-Wiesentall center also. And concerning Jasenovac, over 600 000 Serbs, Jews, Gypsies were killed there.

Here's the link.
http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205930.pdf





You say "what does being killed have to do with being a Nazi fighter" (not in those exact words but still)
That is a really shameless nit picking. I'm pretty sure there were not colaborators.


As many Serbs that fought against "Nazis" in the partizans (which was a multi-ethnic force), even more collaborated with them in the chetniksHere is wikipedia statistics,
Overall



1941-42

Serb & Montenegrin majority[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans#cite_note-31)


1944[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans#cite_note-32)

Serbs: 44%
Croats: 30%
Bosniaks 2.5%
Others/Unknown 23.5%

Source is :Kaufmann Chaim, "Possible and Impossible Solutions to Ethnic Civil Wars," International Security Vol. 20, No.4 (spring 1996), pp. 136-175.

The point being Serbs were always the majority in Partisans.

And with that said, Cetniks did have a policy of etnic cleansing, but so did everyone else.

Cetniks, Ustase, Albanians even partizans only not by etnicity but by idelogy. Basicly, there was no good side, there rarely is.

But Serbs did get the worst in ww II, mostly by the hand of Nazi colaborating Croats, that's a fact.




And you know, "this made me chuckle", cant you express your doubt in any other way? This way you are really teasing for a non-civilian argument.

[LEGEND]

Is Visa required for US citizens to travel to Serbia?

[INAT]

Is Visa required for US citizens to travel to Serbia?




A passport is required for travel to Serbia . U.S. citizens with tourist, official, or diplomatic passports do not require a visa.Up to 90 days within a six-month period.

[tea drinker]

Most countries haven't needed a visa for Serbia in several years.
What's happening with Visa free travel throughout EU for Serbs?

Looks like I'll be in Beograd/Cacak/Zlatibor again post Christmas myself.

[Paya]

What's happening with Visa free travel throughout EU for Serbs?
Officially, visas for EU countries will be abolished in January 2010.


Looks like I'll be in Beograd/Cacak/Zlatibor again post Christmas myself.
Nice. Personally, I would recommend Zlatibor during summertime. Less tourists, beautiful scenery, and it's easier to visit local villages and eat some real lepinja and kajmak. Though, if you try that last bit, you should go by car, in case you run into bears or wolves, and do not, and I repeat, do not get drunk with the locals, for you will end up in a fistfight. It's nothing personal for them, they're just bored, but that comes as little consolation when you have a swollen face the day after...

[Bathinus]

Sounds like you guys travel alot...lucky. I'm broke.

[Stefan850]

Press conference with FM Liberman in Belgrade


16 Sep 2009 Israel and Serbia have a long history of friendly relations and share similar views on many regional issues.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/49663B18-FE6D-4CA1-A441-FF287598B4A4/0/libermanbelgrade.jpg Israel and Serbia sign visa waiver agreement (photo: MFA)






FM Liberman: It is a great pleasure to be here today in Serbia and meet the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr.Vuk Jeremic.
Our two nations have a history of friendly relations which date back long before our states were created. In the worst period of human history, during the Second World War, Serbs and Jews fought together, shoulder to shoulder against the Nazis.
Minister Jeremic and I had a very open and friendly meeting. I briefed the Minister on developments in our region, mainly the challenges that Israel is facing in order to ensure security and normal life to its citizens. Regarding the Palestinian issue, I emphasized the steps that Israel has taken in order to improve the lives of the population and our readiness to engage in direct negotiations without delay.
We also discussed in length the threat that Iran poses to the stability and security in the Middle East as well as in the whole world. Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons is a global threat and should be dealt with by the international community in a serious manner. Our view is that doing “business as usual” with Iran is sending a wrong message to the leaders in Teheran, who bluntly ignore the international will and norms.
Minister Jeremic and I exchanged views on other regional matters, and I can say that we do share similar views on many of these issues.
We also discussed our bilateral relations and matters of mutual interest. The scope of our relations has developed in all fields. We are both satisfied with the fact that Israeli investments in Serbia have continued to grow this year, despite the uncertain global economic situation. We agreed to work together in order to seek ways to increase the cooperation even more, especially in bilateral trade, agriculture and high technology.
The signing today of a visa waiver agreement between Israel and Serbia marks an important step in strengthening our relations. We initiated this agreement in order to reduce the obstacles for Serbian businessmen and tourists who want to visit Israel.
I would like to thank Minister Jeremic once again for the very warm and friendly reception and reaffirm the friendly relationship between our countries.
Thank you.



Question and Answer Session
Q: Could you give us your position - isn’t Israel under pressure to recognize the independence of Kosovo? And your Balkan tour, could you tell us, is it more political or economic? Is the Balkans your new priority?

FM Liberman: I personally believe that it is impossible to impose peace. You need to create peace. We have our experience in our own region, and I think that the best way to resolve the problems and to bring about a comprehensive solution is direct talks between both sides.
We are monitoring the situation between Serbia and Kosovo, and we really hope that in the future, in the next few years, you will achieve a really comprehensive and peaceful solution.
We really think that in our activity in the Balkan region in both directions – economic and political  cooperation must be much better. We can strengthen these relations, and we need more discussions and meetings on the highest level.

Q: Excuse me but you did not answer. Is Israel under pressure to recognize Kosovo?

FM Liberman: We have been under pressure since 1948 on many issues and we know how to deal with any pressure.

Q: A question for Mr. Liberman. We just heard that peace and security in the Middle East will lead to peace and security in the world. So considering your tough language for some regional leaders, Arab leaders in other countries, what is the common ground for you and those who are supposed to negotiate with you - among Palestinians, Egyptians, and Iran? And what is your common ground with the USA, Europe and Russia, who are trying to have valid relations with Iran? The USA is supposed to be the strongest ally of Israel, so what is the common ground with Obama’s administration on these issues?

FM Liberman: I think it is clear to everybody that the biggest problem of the Middle East is the radical wing. It is the clash between moderate and extremist people. It is not disputes or disagreements between us and the Palestinian Authority. We have said from the first day of this government that we are ready immediately for direct talks with the Palestinians side. The Palestinians have refused to date to sit around the table and to start with the talks.
Q: So there is no common ground…

FM Liberman: Despite this fact, we continue to strengthen the Palestinian Authority. We have diminished the number of road blocks and we continue to invest in the Palestinian Authority.
The real threat for the Palestinian Authority is not from Israel. The real threat is Hamas and Jihad. And the real threat for the Hariri coalition in Lebanon is not Israel, but Hןzbוllah. And the biggest threat for Egypt is not Israel, but the Muslim Brotherhood. And the biggest threat for the NATO troops in Afghanistan is the Taliban. And the biggest threat for instability in Pakistan is also the Taliban.
And I think that this fact of the radical Islamic wing in the Middle East is a really clear vision for the United States, for us, for all people around the world, for moderate people.


From the Israel ministry of foreign affairs

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Ministry/Foreign_Minister/Speeches/Press_conference_FM_Liberman_Belgrade_16_Sep_2009.htm

[tea drinker]

Nice. Personally, I would recommend Zlatibor during summertime. Less tourists, beautiful scenery, and it's easier to visit local villages and eat some real lepinja and kajmak. Though, if you try that last bit, you should go by car, in case you run into bears or wolves, and do not, and I repeat, do not get drunk with the locals, for you will end up in a fistfight. It's nothing personal for them, they're just bored, but that comes as little consolation when you have a swollen face the day after...
Yep, have been in summer too - it's beautiful. I done my boozing years ago, it's hard to start fights over coffee now.

Though the quiet in winter is nice too, when you get away from the town and houses. Tracking animals in the snow is good fun. :)

Sorry for off topicp-)

[Zeev]

I would like to ask our albanian "friends" to stop trolling in this thread and to stop trying to impose their biased vision of history and learning to jews what happened during WW2, please just don't worry about us, we know very VERY well who murdered us and with who we should be friend with or not.

As Sousuke explained it, Yugoslavia was a resistant nation, and they were also croats and others among resistance but Serbs were the majority in the resistance troops, this is proved and it is very tiring to see the jealousy of the other ethnies of the ex Yugoslavia towards the serbs every time this debate is approached.
So please stop with that and accept history facts once for all.

Thanks for your understanding.

PS: If you still want to debate about the proportionnality of serbs in the resistance during WW2, you're free to open a new thread about that, but don't do this here anymore.

[Gentius]

^^
My dear Israeli friend, one individuals' opinion doesnt speak on behalf of all Albanian members, now do they?

[V.I.D.]

lol you're confusing Yugoslavia with Serbia itself. They are not synonymous. Yugoslavia backed out of it's alliance with Hitler fast, then was conquered basicly and chopped up. Ceased to exist.

then Serbia was established as a puppet state from 1941-1944

serbs call it "Nedic's Serbia"

In April 1941, Germany and its allies invaded and occupied Yugoslavia. After the defeat, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was carved up, the territory that was not given to the surrounding Axis neighbors, including the new Nazi-puppet Independent State of Croatia in the west, Italian-occupied territories in the south, Hungarian-occupied territories in the north-west, and Bulgarian-occupied territories in the south-east, became part of a German Serbian collaborationist administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_%281941%E2%80%931944%29

there was no more yugoslavia for that time. just Serbia, Croatia etc. all puppet states.

And second, you don't seem to even know who chetniks and partizans are clearly. It's not just "whatever". Chetniks spent more time fighting partizans then anyone else.

You are derailing threads and going off topic, just like you always used to do prior to getting banned under the nickname "The Balkan". I'm 99.5% positive that you and "The Balkan" are the same person (the amount of "lols" in every post is a big giveaway, BTW) and I certainly hope that mods will look into this closer.

[Ishmael]

Ok, u are right, yes there was no Yugo then, it was nedic's Serbia....whatever, my point is that Serbia is the rightful and official successor of Yugoslavia.


The end.

No it's not. Serbia is as much of a successor as Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia. In no way (legally, officially or rightfully) is Serbia more of a successor of Yugoslavia then other ex-Yu countries.



As Sousuke explained it, Yugoslavia was a resistant nation, and they were also croats and others among resistance but Serbs were the majority in the resistance troops, this is proved and it is very tiring to see the jealousy of the other ethnies of the ex Yugoslavia towards the serbs every time this debate is approached.

Thats because nobody in ex-YU thinks Chetniks were good guy except Serb. They think that way because Chetniks collaborated with enemies, they represented a highly oppressive king's government and in their program they had genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Yes, the Serbs were a majority in the resistance troops, but they were also a largest nationality in Yugoslavia. If you take in to account percentage of nationalities and there contribution in Partisan movement you'll see that they weren't the biggest contributor. I think Slovenians where the biggest contributor per capita and I know that Croats from Croatia were 40% above Yugoslavian average. They made 22% of troops, but only 16% of population. Serbs form Croatia were a biggest per capita contributor, but not Serbs as a whole.

[Zeev]

No it's not. Serbia is as much of a successor as Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia. In no way (legally, officially or rightfully) is Serbia more of a successor of Yugoslavia then other ex-Yu countries.




Thats because nobody in ex-YU thinks Chetniks were good guy except Serb. They think that way because Chetniks collaborated with enemies, they represented a highly oppressive king's government and in their program they had genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Yes, the Serbs were a majority in the resistance troops, but they were also a largest nationality in Yugoslavia. If you take in to account percentage of nationalities and there contribution in Partisan movement you'll see that they weren't the biggest contributor. I think Slovenians where the biggest contributor per capita and I know that Croats from Croatia were 40% above Yugoslavian average. They made 22% of troops, but only 16% of population. Serbs form Croatia were a biggest per capita contributor, but not Serbs as a whole.

Did you read my previous post? this thread is about Visa abolishment between israel and serbia. You want to approach the WW2 debate? Just create a new thread. Sounds clear no?

Thank you very much for your understanding.

[INAT]

No it's not. Serbia is as much of a successor as Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia. In no way (legally, officially or rightfully) is Serbia more of a successor of Yugoslavia then other ex-Yu countries.




Thats because nobody in ex-YU thinks Chetniks were good guy except Serb. They think that way because Chetniks collaborated with enemies, they represented a highly oppressive king's government and in their program they had genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Yes, the Serbs were a majority in the resistance troops, but they were also a largest nationality in Yugoslavia. If you take in to account percentage of nationalities and there contribution in Partisan movement you'll see that they weren't the biggest contributor. I think Slovenians where the biggest contributor per capita and I know that Croats from Croatia were 40% above Yugoslavian average. They made 22% of troops, but only 16% of population. Serbs form Croatia were a biggest per capita contributor, but not Serbs as a whole.


Why do you insist on derailing a Serbia-Israel thread with propaganda that has nothing to do with the subject?

Canadian professor Michael Neuman explained it perfectly.Talking about WW2.

" a largely Serbian force(Partizans) fought the Serbs who massacred Moslems, but no largely Moslem force fought the Moslems who massacred Serbs, and no largely Croatian force fought the Croatians who massacred Serbs. In this clear and concrete sense, wartime massacres were committed by Serbs but not 'the Serbs'. Nothing similar can be said of 'the Croatians' or 'the Moslems'. It is also worth noting that protests against anti-Serb atrocities are recorded among the Bosnian Moslems, but not among the Moslems of Kosovo."

Please leave this thread if you are just trolling.As for Serb-Israeli relations like Zeev stated the Jewish people know very well who did what.Any book written before 1990 the facts are there.Since the war there has been an
a major effort to try and erase historical facts,paint over accepted (until 1990 )truths and create new ones in their place.Anyone who knows Balkan history pre-1990 can see this.Terms have been made up and new meaning created.Its called cultural genocide.The important thing is Jews and Serbs have shared a similar history that is why today we have good relations.The other former members of Yugoslavia can't stand this so they have to attack it.

[Stefan850]

What INAT said is, at least from my point of view, true.

My grandmother lived through ww II with her mother, aunt and brother in South Eastern Serbia, between Bela Palanka and Pirot, which was part of Bulgaria during the war, given to them by the Germans.

I know quite a few family stories that involved Jews and the suffering they have gone through during the war, there was a great Jewish population in my part of Serbia, around Bela Palanka, Pirot and Nis (where I live) before the war.

In 1942 Bulgarians for the time being didnt arrest their Jews so a lot of Serbian Jews tried to escape from Bela Palanka (Serbia) to Pirot (then Bulgaria). I can't imagine the horror of one Jewish women that was forced by circumstances to pick one child and go to Bulgaria and leave the other with the neighbours of my family. And later, as in can turn out in life, the child that was left behind was picked up by it's father, who fought in the war but the mother and the other child that she took got arrested ( in 1944) I think by the Bulgarians and disappeared.

My mothers aunt got educated in Wiena before the war and she had a Nazi Officer lover during the war (something we're not proud of obviously) who got her a job in the administration, to translate to Serbian and stuff. She told family friends, Jew family that had an apothecary in that small city Bela Palanka about the order to start rounding up the Jews. The thing I admire incredibly is that the old Grandfather and his wife, the couple that actually owned and run the apothecary stayed by choice, so no suspicion would fall on my aunt and the young ones could have a better chance to run away probably. There children and grandchildren ran away to Albania where Jews had a little more room to breathe I think. They kept in touch with my family long after the war.

Old Man and his wife got killed but that kind of sacrifice is something I will always admire.


I hope you dont mind me sharing my personal stories, I am not talking about Serbia as a whole or anything like that, there is anti semitism in my country, my opinion is there's not a lot by there are some small ultra right wing organizations that used to name Richard Holbrooke and Madeleine Albright as representatives of Jews, stuff like that. I am not making saints out of my family, trust me they are not :) and my knowledge of Jews in Serbia is unfortunately limited to wikipedia articles but this is what I learned from my family, what I know is true and what helped me shape my personal opinion of Jews.

It is not my intention to add to flaming in this topic and I really think that if you consider this post of mine a "flame", if you got a problem with it, it's safe to say you got a much bigger problem with yourself.

[Paya]

By the way, is Israel a pricey location to visit? I've always wanted to visit Tel Aviv, Sderot, and Jerusalem

[Moti]

Good for the 2 people who goes there every year.. lol

[Sousuke]

Good for the 2 people who goes there every year.. lol
Smartass comment is smart.

[Ishmael]

Why do you insist on derailing a Serbia-Israel thread with propaganda that has nothing to do with the subject?


Because you're posting stereotypical nonsense that have nothing to do with truth.



Canadian professor Michael Neuman explained it perfectly.Talking about WW2.

" a largely Serbian force(Partizans) fought the Serbs who massacred Moslems, but no largely Moslem force fought the Moslems who massacred Serbs, and no largely Croatian force fought the Croatians who massacred Serbs. In this clear and concrete sense, wartime massacres were committed by Serbs but not 'the Serbs'. Nothing similar can be said of 'the Croatians' or 'the Moslems'. It is also worth noting that protests against anti-Serb atrocities are recorded among the Bosnian Moslems, but not among the Moslems of Kosovo."


:roll:
This is total nonsense. I already explained that Serbs were the largest nationality in Yugoslavia it's only natural that Partizans (a movement that was started in Croatia by Croats) were largely Serbian force. Of course there was no largely Croatian and Muslim force cause they didn't build resistance forces based on ethnicity . There was only one resistance force in Croatia and those were the Partisans. BTW after 1942 Croats were a majority in Partisan movement in Croatia and they were fighting Croats who massacred Serbs.



Please leave this thread if you are just trolling.As for Serb-Israeli relations like Zeev stated the Jewish people know very well who did what.

Obviously not



Any book written before 1990 the facts are there.Since the war there has been an
a major effort to try and erase historical facts,paint over accepted (until 1990 )truths and create new ones in their place.Anyone who knows Balkan history pre-1990 can see this.

I agree. Anyone who read those book before 1990 and knows pre-1990 history would agree with me. All date that I presented here are from before 1990. Those numbers are official date of People's Liberation Army.
I got them from a paper written by Slavko and Ivo Goldstein two well respected historians on this subject.

Stefan already posted the statistic from Wikipedia. He's numbers are the same.

1941-42
Serb & Montenegrin majority[32]
1944[33]
Serbs: 44%
Croats: 30%
Bosniaks 2.5%
Others/Unknown 23.5%

I said already that Croats from Croatia constituted 16% of population.



Terms have been made up and new meaning created.Its called cultural genocide.The important thing is Jews and Serbs have shared a similar history that is why today we have good relations.The other former members of Yugoslavia can't stand this so they have to attack it.

Yes, a lot of things were made up, but nothing I said was made up. I respect every Jewish and Serbian contribution and victim, but the problem is you don't respect Croatian contributions and victims although our contribution to resistance was quite large. You're constantly trying to present Partizans as solely Serbian movement and you're pretending like other nations only had minor role in it.

Also I don't really see what special relations Serbia and Israel have. You abolished visa restriction just a month ago. Why were you waiting so long. You abolished visas with Croatia 10 years ago.

[Stefan850]

Ishmael the thing is this topic is about Israel/Serbia relations, not competition who's the best Balkan friend to the Israelis or who contributed more.

Non-Serbs came in to this thread out of anger or I dont know what when no one mentioned anyone but Serbia in this specific topic.

I am not saying "who did what/how much/when", just saying (and repeating myself) that this topic is about Serbia and Israel.

You don't really see what special relations Serbia and Israel have?

Well, it is not your business anyhow.

[Ishmael]

You don't really see what special relations Serbia and Israel have?

Well, it is not your business anyhow.

Of course it is.
It becomes my business when someone says that I'm jealous of special relations.
But since most of thing I said were indeed off-topic, this will be my last post about WW2 on this topic.

[Zeev]

this will be my last post about WW2 on this topic.

Finally..

Thanks.

[zg18]

:roll:
This is total nonsense. I already explained that Serbs were the largest nationality in Yugoslavia it's only natural that Partizans (a movement that was started in Croatia by Croats) were largely Serbian force. Of course there was no largely Croatian and Muslim force cause they didn't build resistance forces based on ethnicity . There was only one resistance force in Croatia and those were the Partisans. BTW after 1942 Croats were a majority in Partisan movement in Croatia and they were fighting Croats who massacred Serbs.


Partisan movement was started by communists, nationality here is irrelevant.We cannot talk about about partisan movement as a homogeneous , partisans had a different development in Slovenia,Croatia ,BiH, Serbia, Montenegro ,Macedonia and very often with very different reasons, the only reason why people are now disintegrating partisans by nationality are recent wars ,and it's pretty much disintegrated. My grandad didn't fight in the partisans because he was communist but he really thought that Nazism is true evil and communists offered him a way to fight it , i believe 80-90% of partisans weren't communist at all , the same grandad later in FNRJ had some issues with local communists.