Malaysian court orders Muslim lovers caned for ***

[hulaku]

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) -- An Islamic court has ordered an unmarried couple to be caned for trying to have *** in a car in the latest of a series of harsh punishments for Muslims in Malaysia, a lawyer said Friday.

Though Malaysia has long been upheld as an example of a moderate Muslim-majority country, recent verdicts sentencing Muslims to whipping for drinking alcohol have made headlines. Two months ago, an Islamic judge triggered a national debate when he ordered a woman to be caned for drinking beer.

In the latest case, the Shariah High Court in central Selangor state sentenced the couple Wednesday to six strokes of the cane after they pleaded guilty to trying to have *** out of wedlock in their car, said prosecutor Shafezan Rusli.

Shafezan said Islamic religious police caught Mohamad Shahrin Abdul Majid, 29, and Nadiah Najat Hussin, 24, with only their undergarments on in a car at an office parking lot in May.

He said they are appealing the caning as they plan to get married soon, though they have paid the court-ordered fine of 5,000 ringgit ($1,400) each.

They could have been jailed for up to three years for the offense, the lawyer said.

Shariah laws apply to Muslims, who make up about 60 percent of the 28 million population, in all personal matters. Non-Muslims - Chinese, Indians and other minorities - are not subject to the laws.

Earlier this week, an Islamic court in another state ordered an Indonesian Muslim man to be whipped six times and jailed a year for drinking liquor at a restaurant.

In July, the same court had sentenced a Malaysian woman to six strokes of the cane and a fine for drinking beer in public. The caning, which would be the first time a Malaysian woman has received the punishment, has not been carried out yet. Many see the sentence as a setback for the country's reputation as a moderate Muslim nation.

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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_MALAYSIA_CANING?SITE=WABEL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

As mentioned in the article these actions are not doing for the reputation of Malaysia, which as a country I like and admire.

[Vityaz]

Ultimately: their country, their rules. No use getting too bent out of shape. There are places where it's a lot worse than caning. :-(

[hulaku]

Ultimately: their country, their rules. No use getting too bent out of shape. There are places where it's a lot worse than caning. :-(

The point is that Malaysia is a great country with great culture, great people and a lot of good things all around including a rocking night life. Since Ive had the pleasure of being there a couple of times I dont want it to go the Saudi Arabian way and that is my concern.

I see Malaysia and Turkey as model Islamic nations unlike Saudi Arabia or Iran.

[lotsoffreetime]

The point is that Malaysia is a great country with great culture, great people and a lot of good things all around including a rocking night life. Since Ive had the pleasure of being there a couple of times I dont want it to go the Saudi Arabian way and that is my concern.

I see Malaysia and Turkey as model Islamic nations unlike Saudi Arabia or Iran.

If these cannings is happening in our country, it's because we want them. Different countries believe in different things. Some believe in freedom, human rights..Others believe in in a set of morality and stability.

Plus sharia and civil style cannings are done differently. But I think this couple are about to get it according to the civil rule.

EDIT:

Sentence was passed by sharia court, so sharia style...

[mr. kurien]

why? Whats wrong with canning? Is it too barbaric? Do people died cause of canning? Whats ur point here mr.hulaku? Because Malaysian law practising on canning as part of punishment method, u think its bad for the image of the country? Tell me mr.hulaku.

I give an example, rapist and child molester in Malaysia get 20 canning on their butt. Do you think the canning is barbaric compared to the crime they commit? U suggesting we give them slowpoke on their back, talk and ask them nicely not to do such a crime in the future.

[hulaku]

why? Whats wrong with canning? Is it too barbaric? Do people died cause of canning? Whats ur point here mr.hulaku? Because Malaysian law practising on canning as part of punishment method, u think its bad for the image of the country? Tell me mr.hulaku.

Please refer to post #3 in the same thread.

In my opinion imposition of Sharia Law in a modern country like Malaysia is not the right thing. It should have a uniform civil law for all its citizens irrespective of their religion considering the vast cultural diversity and richness in Malaysia. I really don't care of the same things are done in some Middle Eastern country but I think should not be the case in Malaysia which I think is "Truly Asia".

I have great respect for the people of Malaysia especially the Malays who come across as simple and extremely hospitable people.

[nasiru]

Maybe " OMG Europe is turning into Arab Saudi " threads are kinda boring now , lets make "OMG Malaysia is turning into Arab Saudi " thread . p-)

[mr. kurien]

do you know the real punishment for muslims that have *** before marry according to the real islamic law? Why dont you go and find it urself. That 6 canning is based on the civil law. those 2 people deserves more than 6 because of their bad attitude. Having *** on car park. Huh...

[ggk]

if really using the sharia law the punishment should be 100 lashes...malaysia sharia law (or in this case The State Of Selangor Sharia Law)are very moderate, for the maximum will always be 6 lashes.

That said, the sharia canning are way less painfull than the canning using the Civil penal Code....which is very severe......

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6707/scfsa.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/scfsa.jpg/)
By ggk (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ggk)

example of canning of criminal using the penal code, the sharia would use a smaller cane and wont be as painfull.

[hulaku]

If Im not mistaken in the "Not sharia caning" photo is that a Sikh police officer administrating the caning?

[ggk]

Its dual justice system(which is unique in the world)—the secular laws (criminal and civil) and sharia laws.

Its interesting to note that the criminal law in Malaysia—the Criminal Procedure Code—was based on the Indian criminal code.

The dual system of law is provided in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution of Malaysia which stated that Islamic law is a state law matter (in this case the State of Slangor) with the exception for the Federal Territories of Malaysia.

It only have a small role in defining the laws on the country and only applies to Muslims too.

[ggk]

If Im not mistaken in the "Not sharia caning" photo is that a Sikh police officer administrating the caning?

yes it is. The qualification and selection of personel are always based on merits not religion or race.

[hulaku]

Maybe you want us to send you these guys for caningp-)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1315&pictureid=16287

[mr. kurien]

canning and lashes are 2 different things.

[zad]

Punishing consensual *** acts between adults is barbaric, period.

Defending these cannings as an internal affair, soberanity issue or "we Malasians are different" is an heinous stand, period.

Wake up and small the coffe, we are in XXI century, read the UDHR.

[rgjbloke]

Their country, their laws as someone said here already. Doesn't mean I can't express an opinion that in my view, this kind of punishment even if it is considered a "light sentence", borders barbarity. I accept that as someone brought up in a different culture, in a different part of the world, people will rightly say, it's not your business, but I do think the age of caning people belongs to a different century than this one.

[JJHH]

Punishing consensual *** acts between adults is barbaric, period.

Defending these cannings as an internal affair, soberanity issue or "we Malasians are different" is an heinous stand, period.

Wake up and small the coffe, we are in XXI century, read the UDHR.

Couldn't agree more

[Sashko]

why? Whats wrong with canning? Is it too barbaric? Do people died cause of canning? Whats ur point here mr.hulaku? Because Malaysian law practising on canning as part of punishment method, u think its bad for the image of the country? Tell me mr.hulaku.

I give an example, rapist and child molester in Malaysia get 20 canning on their butt. Do you think the canning is barbaric compared to the crime they commit? U suggesting we give them slowpoke on their back, talk and ask them nicely not to do such a crime in the future.


Rapist should spend at least 20 years in jail and child molester should get a slug in the back of his head.

I don't see how caning grown adults is beneficial or what moral lesson it is supposed to teach. In most places people would stop taking judicial system seriously with punishments like caning - it's stupid, it's undignifying, and there is absolutely no point to it.

[lotsoffreetime]

They tried to have *** in the middle of the holy month of Ramadhan, in a public place. If a non-muslim does that nobody would give a damn, but they're Muslims. Yes, our religion, our country, our rules.

[lotsoffreetime]

Rapist should spend at least 20 years in jail and child molester should get a slug in the back of his head.

I don't see how caning grown adults is beneficial or what moral lesson it is supposed to teach. In most places people would stop taking judicial system seriously with punishments like caning - it's stupid, it's undignifying, and there is absolutely no point to it.

The canning were not done just to punish the offender, it works to teach the public to not do the same thing.

[zad]

They tried to have *** in the middle of the holy month of Ramadhan, in a public place. If a non-muslim does that nobody would give a damn, but they're Muslims. Yes, our fundamentalist interpretation of our religion, our barbaric country, our heinous rules.

Fixed for you.

[3rdMillhouse]

Punishing consensual *** acts between adults is barbaric, period.

Defending these cannings as an internal affair, soberanity issue or "we Malasians are different" is an heinous stand, period.

Wake up and small the coffe, we are in XXI century, read the UDHR.

I agree. Too much ****** repression on muslim societies breeds frustration and anger, misplaced anger can be used as a catalyst for certain agendas. And I mean terrorism. Just look at afghanistan, saudi arabia, iraq, iran, and the list goes on.

[Vityaz]

Punishing consensual *** acts between adults is barbaric, period.

Defending these cannings as an internal affair, soberanity issue or "we Malasians are different" is an heinous stand, period.

Wake up and small the coffe, we are in XXI century, read the UDHR.
Regime change, let's go.

[Chulo]

I agree. Too much ****** repression on muslim societies breeds frustration and anger, misplaced anger can be used as a catalyst for certain agendas. And I mean terrorism. Just look at afghanistan, saudi arabia, iraq, iran, and the list goes on.
So you are saying terrorism rises from not having ***?

[SBL]

I kinda wish they'd (re?)introduce caning here for certain offenses.

[hanmya]

So you are saying terrorism rises from not having ***?

Ah! So said Sigmund Freud! ****** depravity the root cause of most psychological disorders!

[Chulo]

Ah! So said Sigmund Freud! ****** depravity the root cause of most psychological disorders!
And you think terrorism is a psychological disorder.

[Dexx]

Punishing consensual *** acts between adults is barbaric, period.

Defending these cannings as an internal affair, soberanity issue or "we Malasians are different" is an heinous stand, period.

Wake up and small the coffe, we are in XXI century, read the UDHR.

You are right. This mentality is directed backwards. I thank god that I am neither Muslim nor living in a muslim country.

[3rdMillhouse]

So you are saying terrorism rises from not having ***?

Yep, that's not the only cause of course. Poverty, no prospect of future, ignorance; but lack of pussy is one of the factors.

[lotsoffreetime]

You guys took it wrongly. Islam never opposes ***, it's only that *** must only be within a marriage. So you don't need to embarrass yourself into the Maury Povitch show in search for the father. Buddhist monks never got pussy either, but they never did anything bad :)

[Russian_dude]

Sharia... soon coming to England.

[hanmya]

And you think terrorism is a psychological disorder.
No, but it can very well explain the insane mindless barbaric acts.

[hanmya]

You guys took it wrongly. Islam never opposes ***, it's only that *** must only be within a marriage. So you don't need to embarrass yourself into the Maury Povitch show in search for the father. Buddhist monks never got pussy either, but they never did anything bad :)

Buddhists monks do not face draconian laws and fear of severe punishments like stoning or beheading in case they want to get back to enjoying worldly pleasures. For them, its a choice they make of giving up carnal pleasures.

[hulaku]

Buddhist monks never got pussy either, but they never did anything bad :)

Leave peace loving Buddhist monks out of this.

[Gman992]

I just wonder what's going to happen if...just if...one of these people dies...will the Muslims say we can because of our beliefs and get away with it? I mean will the caner get arrested? Or will they leave him allow because he's protected by Sharia law? What happens when they stone a person to death? They try this here in America with so-called "honor-killings..."

[hskywalker]

It's more about conservative society and liberal society. Islam is more conservative and "barbaric", western culture is more liberal and "decadent". Some society not ok with pre-marital ***, some society ok with pre-marital *** but not ok with *** in public, some society ok with topless woman in public. Arrogant westerners should abandon their cultural superiority complex. No wonder so many muslims hate them.

[kvk1]

I see Malaysia and Turkey as model Islamic nations unlike Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Nothing against Malaysia, but that's a pretty bad comparison w/ Turkey.

Turkey isn't an Islamic nation.

[mr. kurien]

I just wonder what's going to happen if...just if...one of these people dies...will the Muslims say we can because of our beliefs and get away with it? I mean will the caner get arrested? Or will they leave him allow because he's protected by Sharia law? What happens when they stone a person to death? They try this here in America with so-called "honor-killings..."

no one will die during canning because in malaysian law, we dont can people which are sick or weak. The canning process will be done if the doctors give "green light". During the canning there will be lots of eyes watching including the doctors. In this case it is civil law we use. Not the sharia law. Canning is different from lashing. Its like hitting ur butt with a phonebook. People who get canned on their butt do their public services in advising the community here not to do the same mistake like they did before.


It's more about conservative society and liberal society. Islam is more conservative and "barbaric"

I'm a muslim and also working as a teacher. So, does it mean that i'm "barbaric"?

[zad]

no one will die during canning because in malaysian law, we dont can people which are sick or weak. The canning process will be done if the doctors give "green light". During the canning there will be lots of eyes watching including the doctors. In this case it is civil law we use. Not the sharia law. Canning is different from lashing. Its like hitting ur butt with a phonebook. People who get canned on their butt do their public services in advising the community here not to do the same mistake like they did before.

The assistance of doctors on a torture sesion is a blatant violation of the hippocratic oath.



I'm a muslim and also working as a teacher. So, does it mean that i'm "barbaric"?

Your religions is not related, a christian condoning the canning will be barbaric, as will be a budhist, atheist or a member of the jedi religion.
If you support punishing with torture consensual ****** acts between adults, yes you are barbaric.

[Mastermind]

Barbaric. It is un-enlightened. It is cruel.

But, is it any worse than imprisoning a person for misdemeanors, as we do here...up to one year and five thousand dollar fine in most jurisdictions maximum for misdemeanors...and they can be imposed to run consecutively...making him/her lose his/her job, financially destroying or greatly disturbing their livelihood and economic position. Forcing his/her family onto public welfare...some of them lose their homes.

I would choose a five minute caning, over six months incarceration...my choice if I could choose it in event I ever crossed the law. Better than losing everything you might have worked years for and disrupting your entire family. That in itself is a form of barbarism.

I will not comment on it being a crime for public displays of affection.

[karbol]

making love in public area also a barbaric things.. p-)

[Mastermind]

No..taking out your clam digger in public and having it polished by the lips of your GF's baby chute is barbaric

[Super Sheep]

Hmm.. there country their law? So I suppose the people who make up Malaysia.... had the choice of being born Malaysian right? As opposed to anybody having the choice of being born say Russian... German... Japanese?


Basically I am trying to say that the people who are subjected to these arcane and barbaric laws of Malaysia.. did not have the choice of being born Malaysian, therefore did not have the choice of choosing whatever to be subjected to these laws or not. Their country, their laws.. my ass.

[[ KOOSHAB ]]

While I'm all for ****** liberation you should really reserve it in a place more appropriate,
additionally they're declared Muslims - though I don't know if converting out of Islam is punishable in Malaysia.

caning isn't that bad in my opinion, then again I'm South Asian ;s

[eskachig]

I give an example, rapist and child molester in Malaysia get 20 canning on their butt. Do you think the canning is barbaric compared to the crime they commit? U suggesting we give them slowpoke on their back, talk and ask them nicely not to do such a crime in the future.Of course their crimes are barbaric - they're criminals! The state does not have to sink to their level. And nobody thinks that criminals should go free, either, that's a blatant straw man argument.


example of canning of criminal using the penal code, the sharia would use a smaller cane and wont be as painfull.It's not just a smaller cane - the biggest difference is that in Sharia canings the executioner swings with his elbow held to the side of his body - it's sort of like a wrist stroke. It's also done over clothes. This is contrasted with a civil caning which is made up of maximum force, full shoulder strokes.

Both violate essential human dignity, in my opinion.

[eskachig]

;4426098']While I'm all for ****** liberation you should really reserve it in a place more appropriate,
additionally they're declared Muslims - though I don't know if converting out of Islam is punishable in Malaysia.

caning isn't that bad in my opinion, then again I'm South Asian ;s

I don't think anyone is really against laws prohibiting lewd behavior in public. The questions here are all about application of corporal punishment by the state for violations of religious doctrine.

From the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Malaysia#Apostasy_under_state_law

Statistics indicate that Negeri Sembilan has the largest number of converts, with 840 applications made to renounce Islam in 2005, 62 of which succeeded. An academic has suggested that this is because Negeri Sembilan is the only state which permits conversion. A convert must first apply to the Syariah Court for a declaration that he or she is no longer a Muslim; the convert will then be counseled for about a year by a Mufti. If, after this period, the convert still wants to convert, the judge may permit the application. This process is unique to the state; no other state allows Muslims to officially convert.

Malaysia is a theocracy basically.

[eskachig]

In this case it is civil law we use. Not the sharia law. Canning is different from lashing. Its like hitting ur butt with a phonebook.Civil canings mean permanent scarring for each stroke, lengthy recovery process, and probably PTSD. It's not at all like hitting someone on the butt with a phonebook. They are also not allowed for women.

Sharia canings are fairly mild and nobody will die from them, which is what this couple will get. They are mostly just humiliating and dehumanizing.

[deli_dumrul]

You are right. This mentality is directed backwards. I thank god that I am neither Muslim nor living in a muslim country.

+

Dexx's avatar
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/image.php?u=9455&dateline=1134061240

=

I just realized I don't like hairy hasselhoffs wearing speedos... So let's thank the god for that too.

[Ordie]

What is the penalty in Malaysia for a masochist?

[Mastermind]

What is the penalty in Malaysia for a masochist?
They give him/her a latte', set the victim on a veranda, with cozy "snuggie" and read soft poetry...this goes on for at least an hour...then off to the masseuse for a double back of wrist lower back and thigh massage with sweet extra extra virgin olive oil. They play slow Beatles tunes softly in the background....then, a nap in a posturepedic covered with satin sheets, and for toppers, a luncheon, followed by a light desert of peeled grapes in yogurt sauce.

That takes care of that social misfit!

[ggk]

What is the penalty in Malaysia for a masochist?

oh ordie.......... dark side eh?
hehehe

p-)

[acosta]

making love in public area also a barbaric things.. p-)

as long as it's not spotted...

[ggk]

I agree. Too much ****** repression on muslim societies breeds frustration and anger, misplaced anger can be used as a catalyst for certain agendas. And I mean terrorism. Just look at afghanistan, saudi arabia, iraq, iran, and the list goes on.


Yep, that's not the only cause of course. Poverty, no prospect of future, ignorance; but lack of pussy is one of the factors.

wat.









.....so the solution to wipe out terror are by eveyone to hump each other in broad daylight?

rofl

[ggk]

Buddhists monks do not face draconian laws and fear of severe punishments likestoning orbeheading in case they want to get back to enjoying worldly pleasures. For them, its a choice they make of giving up carnal pleasures.

pre marital *** is forbiden in Islam. Very rarely the punishment are death because Ulama have been debating this punishment for centuries and most develop islamic county already abandon this law because of its contradict the teaching of the Quran.

That said some cultures still severely punished adulteries in places where no proper law or/and strong governance available. We can see cases of woman tortured or killed for having as simple as falling in love with a man from different tribe or clan or even caste to be sentenced to death.

As for Malaysia Law cant be compared to these tribal law. Malaysian Law are matured and well writen, it has a good due process and exellent implementation aparatus (although as any country judicial system this is debatable to some extent)

To decide if this canning or lashing as draconian one have to drag over hundreds or even thousand of laws, be it in the most modern society to a third world country, to make comparison.

for example does beheading using an extremely sharp Damascus Sword more draconian than let say....lethal injection or hanging?

Muslim do have choice. They can choose to be a bad muslims and they can choose to be a devout muslims. In country such as Saudi Arabia the line are not blured, hence the punishment are severed. Yet how many exactly really received hundreds of lashes or beheaded for capital crimes or adulteries in a year?

As for malaysia case this is the first time in 52 years someone really going to be canned, yet maybe some of you failed to read my statement before..in 52 years of Malaysia sharia law history none were actually canned. Simply because in Islam (at least in our version of Sharia Law) we dont punish those who repent. Thats what happen exactly to the previous girl who sincerely repent and wishes be canned.

That said can one judge a person culture and value using his culture and value? Can western culture be forced to an eastern culture?

[zad]

Muslim do have choice. They can choose to be a bad muslims and they can choose to be a devout muslims. In country such as Saudi Arabia the line are not blured, hence the punishment are severed. Yet how many exactly really received hundreds of lashes or beheaded for capital crimes or adulteries in a year?

As for malaysia case this is the first time in 52 years someone really going to be canned, yet maybe some of you failed to read my statement before..in 52 years of Malaysia sharia law history none were actually canned. Simply because in Islam (at least in our version of Sharia Law) we dont punish those who repent. Thats what happen exactly to the previous girl who sincerely repent and wishes be canned.

That said can one judge a person culture and value using his culture and value? Can western culture be forced to an eastern culture?

Not in Malasya, if you born muslim (not your choice) it is nearly impossible to leave the religion. You have to spend the rest of your life living under sharia shadow. No alcohol, no pre-marital ***, no pig meat... man, that is not a live!.

[ggk]

Not in Malasya, if you born muslim (not your choice) it is nearly impossible to leave the religion. You have to spend the rest of your life living under sharia shadow. No alcohol, no pre-marital ***, no pig meat... man, that is not a live!.

.... well i have to differ...and maybe the other 1 billion muslims all over the world will not agree too. ..no premarital *** is no biggie..we can marry up to four wife.. that said as far as i know if one really have a wet **** and cant help it with girls they can choose to do so... the decision between heaven and hell is up to each individual really, as long as he or she do it in his private realm.

Alcohol ...well nothing good from that either..pretty much means a healthy lifes is guaranteed (at least for the liver)

no pig meat.....pig eat, live and drink shyt and pretymuch one of the wormiest animal ever... i will loose no sleep over that...plus if one have talent beef are tastier.

like i said before, you are judging another culture by using your culture as a standard...fortunately the reversed can be done too..... in other words its unfair to put right or wrong in this maters.