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View Full Version : Russia to restore Kirov class nuclear cruisers



jaybe
09-19-2009, 07:13 AM
As said deputy commander of Russian Military forces Vladimir Popovkin during his interview, Russia will restore nuclear cruisers, as "Russia need at least 2-3 ships of such class for big distances tasks".

In Russian - http://www.gazeta.ru/news/lenta/2009/09/19/n_1405266.shtml

jaybe
09-19-2009, 07:28 AM
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1209716/photos/mpnet/pvdotjpg

i want to see them three in line

Herman the II
09-19-2009, 07:35 AM
I thought there already was a refurbishment program for those? So this is just a confirmation or a second program?
Are there up to date photos available?

JCR
09-19-2009, 07:35 AM
Ushakov (Kirov) is beyond salvation, I think, while Nakhimov (ex Kalinin) is definitely restorable and most likely will rejoin the fleet sooner or later.

The big question is Lazarev (Frunze).
This one is important because it is pacific based, while the other two and the inactive lead ship are in the northern fleet.
I think if Lazarev can't be restored, one of the others might transfer to the Pacific.
Maybe problems with Lazarev are because she is far away from her builder's yard and there are no suitable support and repair facilities in the far east.

Btw, I've never seen any recent photos of the rest of the class. There are plenty of pictures of Pyotr Velikiy, but none whatsoever of the other ships of that class except for the usual cold war flyover pics.

Marcus Aurelius
09-19-2009, 08:00 AM
I don't know much about the ship itself but it's definitely gorgeous.

kosse
09-19-2009, 08:01 AM
I'll believe it when I see the ships sailing again on their own power.

Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.

JCR
09-19-2009, 08:29 AM
Obvious troll is obvious

my name again
09-19-2009, 08:33 AM
I'll believe it when I see the ships sailing again on their own power.

Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.


You are sooo funny .
Do you realize how stupid you are?:roll:

The ship is a beauty !

ult
09-19-2009, 08:34 AM
Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.
:|
ban that piece of ****.

megjur
09-19-2009, 08:49 AM
:|
ban that piece of ****.

Seems like he expressed a reasonable sentiment, why so angry?

Those are beautiful ships however, wish the U.S. didn't decommission so many of it's ships. The Ticonderoga class cruisers are not nearly as sleek as Kirovs, closest cruiser U.S. used to have was the Virginia class, prematurely decommisioned under Clinton.

Frutzel
09-19-2009, 08:56 AM
Seems like he expressed a reasonable sentiment, why so angry?


Because it was an obvious attempt to start a fire about such common news. Kosse has a silly complex and needs to spout his BS from time to time.

kosse
09-19-2009, 08:58 AM
Seems like he expressed a reasonable sentiment, why so angry?


They can't take the truth or more likely they live in US or some other western country and are totally clueless about Russia. An average Russian living in nearly full subsistence economy in Karelia (because there are no jobs) would propably disagree about use of money on old, rusting warships. Of course, you don't hear those people talking because they have no internet - and many not even electricity.

_GDS_
09-19-2009, 08:59 AM
Plenty of photos here, the mighty warships of the Soviet/Russian navy:

Admiral Ushakov (ex Kirov)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/165/index.html
Admiral Lazarev (ex Frunze)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/index.html
Admiral Nahimov (ex Kalinin)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/167/index.html
"Peter the great" - Pyotr Velikiy (ex Yurij Adropov)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/168/index.html

hogdriver
09-19-2009, 09:03 AM
Seems like he expressed a reasonable sentiment, why so angry?

Those are beautiful ships however, wish the U.S. didn't decommission so many of it's ships. The Ticonderoga class cruisers are not nearly as sleek as Kirovs, closest cruiser U.S. used to have was the Virginia class, prematurely decommisioned under Clinton.

Why cruisers if they have so many carriers...:roll:

JCR
09-19-2009, 09:03 AM
No recent photos of Adm. Nakhimov, but serveral of Lazarev and Ushakov.
Ushakov/Kirov looks like its beyond salvage.

Herman the II
09-19-2009, 09:08 AM
No recent photos of Adm. Nakhimov, but serveral of Lazarev and Ushakov.
Ushakov/Kirov looks like its beyond salvage.

Lazarev is also in a very bad state, I doubt that an refurbishment is worth the money. It might be possible, but...

http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/02166043dotjpg
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/02166044dotjpg

Frutzel
09-19-2009, 09:10 AM
Lazarev is also in a very bad state, I doubt that an refurbishment is worth the money. It might be possible, but...

http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/02166043dotjpg
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/02166044dotjpg

Looks bad in my opinion.

megjur
09-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Plenty of photos here, the mighty warships of the Soviet/Russian navy:

Admiral Ushakov (ex Kirov)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/165/index.html
Admiral Lazarev (ex Frunze)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/166/index.html
Admiral Nahimov (ex Kalinin)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/167/index.html
"Peter the great" - Pyotr Velikiy (ex Yurij Adropov)
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/168/index.html


Formerly mighty....its a shame too..I hate to see fine warships rust at their moorings or get scrapped, like these Russian ships.

http://englishrussia.com/images/murmansk_military_base/13dotjpg

or the other rusting nuclear derilects at Murmansk.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,390715,00.html

The article is from 2005, so maybe Russia has cleaned up this mess. It would be irresponsible to spend money to reactivate the Kirovs while leaving this mess behind.

megjur
09-19-2009, 09:19 AM
Why cruisers if they have so many carriers...:roll:

The cruisers were good carrier escorts with a lot of years left in them. I just thought it was a shame such a fine ship got scrapped before her time.

zg18
09-19-2009, 09:32 AM
They can't take the truth or more likely they live in US or some other western country and are totally clueless about Russia. An average Russian living in nearly full subsistence economy in Karelia (because there are no jobs) would propably disagree about use of money on old, rusting warships. Of course, you don't hear those people talking because they have no internet - and many not even electricity.

Who cares about Karelia? WTF are you talking about , all regions can't be developed ,some will be poor ,end of story. You are constantly posting BS on every Russian thread,if don't have anything smart to add ,than don't post, it's simple as that.

kosse
09-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Who cares about Karelia? WTF are you talking about , all regions can't be developed ,some will be poor ,end of story. You are constantly posting BS on every Russian thread,if don't have anything smart to add ,than don't post, it's simple as that.

Karelia isn't the only undeveloped region in Russia. It's like that nearly everywhere outside industrial centers. The point was that while a lot of people live very sh1tty lives there is this ongoing nonsense about reviving Soviet time military glory :roll:

/end of OT

zg18
09-19-2009, 09:47 AM
Karelia isn't the only undeveloped region in Russia. It's like that nearly everywhere outside industrial centers. The point was that while a lot of people live very sh1tty lives there is this ongoing nonsense about reviving Soviet time military glory :roll:

/end of OT

OK and who cares? Russia is not socialist country anymore, somewhere will people be poor, somewhere relatively well off and somewhere will be rich , it's not even Russian speciality , US has a lot of poor people but maintains world expensive military , give us a break , military was never a social institution.

tommy00
09-19-2009, 10:07 AM
Looks like "Kirov"...
http://radikal.ru/F/i040.radikal.ru/0909/6f/ffb074eb9e84dotjpg.html

Sashko
09-19-2009, 10:12 AM
They can't take the truth or more likely they live in US or some other western country and are totally clueless about Russia. An average Russian living in nearly full subsistence economy in Karelia (because there are no jobs) would propably disagree about use of money on old, rusting warships. Of course, you don't hear those people talking because they have no internet - and many not even electricity.


Um, Karelia is mostly filled with private dachas and whole dacha summer towns, for people living in St.Petersburg. What peasants and what full subsistence economy are you talking about? :cantbeli:

Ambassador
09-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Why cruisers if they have so many carriers...:roll:

Cruisers are better for ship-to-ship warfare.

The Aegis system provides ABM protection too.

Their Tomahawks pack more firepower than an average F/A-18.

dragonunion
09-19-2009, 10:34 AM
Cruisers are better for ship-to-ship warfare.

The Aegis system provides ABM protection too.

Their Tomahawks pack more firepower than an average F/A-18.
And how many F/A-18 one aircraft carrier can have? :roll:

Ambassador
09-19-2009, 10:41 AM
Forty.

One cruiser can carry a maximum of 120 Tomahawk missiles. Realistically some of a cruiser's ****nal will be relegated to other types of missiles; SM-2, Harpoon, etc.; that does not mitigate the fact that Tomahawks and cruisers in general carry a fearsome punch.

kosse
09-19-2009, 10:59 AM
OK and who cares? Russia is not socialist country anymore, somewhere will people be poor, somewhere relatively well off and somewhere will be rich , it's not even Russian speciality , US has a lot of poor people but maintains world expensive military , give us a break , military was never a social institution.

Cohesion is important for a nation to survive. If central goverment decides to neglect large parts of the country leaving people to survive on their own it will have concequences. The result is that a lot of those people will lose their fate in their country and with that their loyalty to it, they will stop paying taxes, become more easily corrupt etc. Just the problems Russia is facing..

US is just so much better off due to many historical reason that a comparison with Russia is pretty fruitless. Poor people in US =/ poor people in Russia.


Um, Karelia is mostly filled with private dachas and whole dacha summer towns, for people living in St.Petersburg. What peasants and what full subsistence economy are you talking about? :cantbeli:

I'm well aware of those luxury dachas with fenced yards and warnings for poor people not to come too close as I've seen them with my own eyes. The contrast between them and the shacks were locals live growing potatoes to make it through the winter in is pretty astounding.

Ambassador
09-19-2009, 11:01 AM
I don't think the refurbishing of these cruisers will amount to even 0.1% of Russia's GDP at all.

So there will be negligible impact to their economy in general.

lightfire
09-19-2009, 11:02 AM
I'll believe it when I see the ships sailing again on their own power.

Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.

ohhhh, snap, Russian fanboys are gonna be so butthurt. Oh wait, they are already..

anyway, the whole idea of restoring old ships - wouldn't it be cheaper to build new ones, considering the mentioned bad shape? Or is this whole idea a stop gap thing?

Flamming_Python
09-19-2009, 11:09 AM
They can't take the truth or more likely they live in US or some other western country and are totally clueless about Russia. An average Russian living in nearly full subsistence economy in Karelia (because there are no jobs) would propably disagree about use of money on old, rusting warships. Of course, you don't hear those people talking because they have no internet - and many not even electricity.

No jobs in Karelia? Have you been there? I'm pretty sure Petrozavodsk is one of the poorer provinicial capitals of Russia, but far from there being 'no jobs'. And they definitely don't live on subsistence economy. And they definitely have electricity, even the villages. And yes you do hear from those people; just because you don't know Russian, doesn't mean that Karelian internet forums, etc... don't exist.

Or would you like to provide proof to the contrary Kosse, about there being no electricity and no internet? Because until you do, your posts mean jack and ****.


I'll believe it when I see the ships sailing again on their own power.

Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.

What peasents? What proportion of the Russian population do you think, are still peasants? Russia is very urbanised, and it would be incorrect I think, to call its rural population as 'peasants'; increasingly they are land-owners, etc...

Not that you would respond to this post Kosse. Or any post that challenges your degenerate ramblings with actual facts.

Herman the II
09-19-2009, 11:10 AM
anyway, the whole idea of restoring old ships - wouldn't it be cheaper to build new ones, considering the mentioned bad shape? Or is this whole idea a stop gap thing?


The problem is that the Russian yards simply don't have the capability for new cruisers. The Russians want new LPDs like the French Mistral, they also want new carriers as a replacement for the Kuznetsov and so there simply is no capacity left. Some people even doubt that they have the capability for the first two...
Refurbishment seems to be the only option left, even if its not the best one.
So if the Russians are lucky they may find the funds to restore the "Admiral Nahimov" and "Peter the great" , the others are beyond repair IMO.

jaybe
09-19-2009, 11:15 AM
So if the Russians are lucky they may find the funds to restore the "Admiral Nahimov" and "Peter the great" , the others are beyond repair IMO.

Please enlighten me why to restore this one most powerful surface ship in the world?

Frutzel
09-19-2009, 11:15 AM
ohhhh, snap, lightfire is going to be a **** again in a "R" thread. Oh wait, he is already..


Corrected it for you.Every country struggles with problems, but it seems to be a sport to point them out if they are Russian.

Herman the II
09-19-2009, 11:21 AM
Please enlighten me why to restore this one most powerful surface ship in the world?

Call it "update" if it makes you fell better...:roll:

jaybe
09-19-2009, 11:30 AM
Call it "update" if it makes you fell better...:roll:


yeah, restore and update are synonims :cantbeli:

Ulytau
09-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Not as a Zeppelin but Kirov Reporrrting p-)

jaybe
09-19-2009, 11:33 AM
Not as a Zeppelin but Kirov Reporrrting p-)

you mean Starcraft? :)

Ambassador
09-19-2009, 11:36 AM
yeah, restore and update are synonims :cantbeli:

They are not. Restore means 'bring it back to its original condition'. Update means 'improve it over the original condition'.

Ulytau
09-19-2009, 11:37 AM
you mean Starcraft? :)

Red Alert 2 :D

megjur
09-19-2009, 11:45 AM
It would be easier for the U.S. to reactivate the old battleships Iowa and Wisconsin than for the Russians to get a Kirov working again


Iowa and Wisconsin must not be altered in any way that would impair their military utility;
The battleships must be preserved in their present condition through the continued use of cathodic protection, dehumidification systems, and any other preservation methods as needed;
Spare parts and unique equipment such as the 16-inch (410 mm) gun barrels and projectiles be preserved in adequate numbers to support Iowa and Wisconsin, if reactivated;
The Navy must prepare plans for the rapid reactivation of Iowa and Wisconsin should they be returned to the Navy in the event of a national emergency.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_class_battleship#cite_note-Congress_68-52)

jaybe
09-19-2009, 11:46 AM
They are not. Restore means 'bring it back to its original condition'. Update means 'improve it over the original condition'.

err... did you see such pic - :cantbeli:?

Ambassador
09-19-2009, 11:47 AM
Sarcasm is hard to perceive in the Internet especially for a non-native speaker. Sorry.

jaybe
09-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Red Alert 2 :D

in starcraft battlecruisers also rreporrted :)

Sashko
09-19-2009, 12:02 PM
I'm well aware of those luxury dachas with fenced yards and warnings for poor people not to come too close as I've seen them with my own eyes. The contrast between them and the shacks were locals live growing potatoes to make it through the winter in is pretty astounding.



Most dachas in Karelia are not exclusive mansions at all, but village-type settlements (dachnie poselki) where people do grow potatoes, tomatoes and other vegetables. They then proceed to **** the harvest back to St.Petersburg not because they would starve to death otherwise, but because home grown stuff is always better.

Alot of these dacha complexes were sold to government employees at very attractive prices. I've spent 3 months every summer in Karelia for 5 years straight (during '90s), and I haven't noticed any people permanently living in shacks (some dachas did indeed have shacks, but people used them only on weekends in the summer time) or anyone starving to death.

Hollis
09-19-2009, 12:38 PM
I'll believe it when I see the ships sailing again on their own power.

Anyway, Russia should focus on feeding it's peasants rather than dreaming about past glory.


This is a Video thread on the Kirov Class Cruisers. IF you feel the need to discuss this topic, open a thread in the political rant section of this forum. What you manage to do, was drive this thread off topic.

Better yet., as this thread is anything but a what this section is, it is closed.

kosse
09-19-2009, 12:41 PM
This is a Video thread on the Kirov Class Cruisers. IF you feel the need to discuss this topic, open a thread in the political rant section of this forum. What you manage to do, was drive this thread off topic.

Better yet., as this thread is anything but a what this section is, I will move it.

A video thread? I'm not sure if I follow. I will, however, take heed of the warning.

Hollis
09-19-2009, 12:42 PM
A video thread? I'm not sure if I follow. I will, however, take heed of the warning.

It works when people stay on topic.