Arlington County, VA: "High Occupancy Lanes are Racist"

[I can't think of a name]

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/092109_arlington_race_a_factor_in_hot_lanes

I don't get it. If anything poor people are more likely to save dollars and car pool than wealthy people.

Also, Arlington and Fairfax counties are two of the wealthiest in the whole U.S.

My favorite part is how this spun out of the mandatory study on social and environmental issues. Big government BS that costs money and delivers nothing.

[Kit]

A lawsuit filed by Arlington County last month claims the lanes benefit wealthy white people and discriminates against minorities. While the only rule to get in the HOV lanes on Interstate 395 is you must have three people in the car, Arlington claims adding HOT lanes would cut out poor and minorities by defacto.

Whaa? If race were involved at all, I'd say it benefits Hispanic immigrants more.

[Ordie]

These roads are not free and driving is a privilage.

Why not make them all toll roads and dedicate part of the revenues to support public transit in poor areas.

[I can't think of a name]

These roads are not free and driving is a privilage.

Why not make them all toll roads and dedicate part of the revenues to support public transit in poor areas.

Another tax and another entitlement.

[Ordie]

Another tax and another entitlement.

Not a tax.

A user fee.

Public transit is to mitigate congestion.

[USMC68]

I am really confused. I drive on these all the time, and I can only see this benefiting minorities. I like all the highways, with the amount of traffic in the area we need larger lane highways. I'm kind of curious of the outcome.

[Fat Lazy American]

HOV-3 in Northern VA? Seems to me it disproportionately benefits Hispanics, in particular.

[Ordie]

HOV-3 in Northern VA? Seems to me it disproportionately benefits Hispanics, in particular.
How so?

Is it because they do the right thing and carpool together as a means to reduce our dependency of foreign oil, greenhouse emissions, and congestion?

[Elbs]

Everything seems to be "racist" nowadays...

[I can't think of a name]

Everything seems to be "racist" nowadays...

This is the Obama "Post-Racial" America we were promised.

[XShipRider]

Mass transit is a money loser in almost every metropolis it serves. There are always exceptions. Cleveland's bus and light rail is a joke. Ridership is up yet they still lose millions every year.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8643

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-162es.html

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/19/ten-billion-served-and-300-million-fleeced/

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9325

[Ordie]

Mass transit is a money loser in almost every metropolis it serves. There are always exceptions. Cleveland's bus and light rail is a joke. Ridership is up yet they still lose millions every year.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8643

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-162es.html

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/19/ten-billion-served-and-300-million-fleeced/

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9325

Mass transit was never meant to make a profit.
Its a public service very much like police and fire fighting.

[muttbutt]

How so?

Is it because they do the right thing and carpool together as a means to reduce our dependency of foreign oil, greenhouse emissions, and congestion?
Why do you hate freedom Ordie?

[Ordie]

Why do you hate freedom Ordie?

Don't you want to be free from being dependent on foreign oil?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2575836688_985b440298.jpg

[Sakop]

Don't you want to be free from being dependent on foreign oil?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2575836688_985b440298.jpg

No! I want to drive my car, by myself, anywhere i want too. And at a very low price.

[Mu-Meson]

This is the stupidest thing I have read in at least a week. How the hell can High Occupancy Lanes benefit Single Occupancy Vehicles?


HOT lanes, "encourage and enable a financially-able, privileged class of suburban and rural, primarily Caucasian residents from Stafford and Spotsylvania counties operating single occupancy vehicles ("SOV") unimpeded access on toll lanes."

Here's an idea: monitor the HOT to ensure that SOV's aren't using it. Besides, if it gives "unimpeded access" to whitey, then why is it different for minorities? (MSOV's?)
People this stupid shouldn't be allowed to breed.

Isn't the premise of HOT to give less congested lanes to people who carpool/have more passengers? Are they saying the act of taking tolls is discriminatory against poorer people, who happen to be minorities?

[commanding]

Everything seems to be "racist" nowadays...

agreed. Seems the two most popular slams on anything you care to name are 1. racist and 2. nazi

Argument enders, how can you defend against either...once it is brought into the argument (you are a racist!) it just kills logic and reason.

[Ordie]

Driving is a privilage not a right.

Drivers should pay for that privilage through auto ownership tolls, gas taxes, fuel and insurance no matter what the cost may be.

[jupiter]

These roads are not free and driving is a privilage.

Why not make them all toll roads and dedicate part of the revenues to support public transit in poor areas.
Are you serious?

[jupiter]

Driving is a privilage not a right.

Drivers should pay for that privilage through auto ownership tolls, gas taxes, fuel and insurance no matter what the cost may be.
And taxing that privileges to help the poor? As you stated, taxes and tolls are Already been paid and still. So add up more taxes? :bash:

[jupiter]

It's one of the mores stupid idea ever. HOV are racist. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ordie]

And taxing that privileges to help the poor? As you stated, taxes and tolls are Already been paid and still. So add up more taxes? :bash:

Get rid of "Freeways" make them all toll roads.

The folks that need the roads are the users and they should pay for that privilage.

[Zoomie]

Get rid of "Freeways" make them all toll roads.

The folks that need the roads are the users and they should pay for that privilage.
But then what about the poor people? Don't they have jobs too? Whoops. :cantbeli:

[Ordie]

But then what about the poor people? Don't they have jobs too? Whoops. :cantbeli:

Where you live and where you work and how to get to work is a personal choice.

[Sakop]

Where you live and where you work and how to get to work is a personal choice.
So is driving or taking public transportation.
We already pay for the freeways (TAXES), so they aren't "free".

BTW would you want some Right-wing antiabortionist telling you what "choice" you have? Because if you want government controlling things there is a good chance that the control might end up in the wrong hands…

Oh ya, there would also be no reason for unions “that gave us the weekend” because the government would be in control of all that.

Just something to think about…

[Ordie]

Oh ya, there would also be no reason for unions “that gave us the weekend” because the government would be in control of all that.


If Saturday were to be a regular workday, it would be discriminatory against the 7th Day Adventist.

In reality the "weekend" concept came about several angles.

The unions who advocated for a 40 hour workweek.

The Jewish population who took Saturday off.

And the manufactuers who realized that folks were not buying products because the workers had no free time to enjoy them.

Have a good weekend.

[jupiter]

Get rid of "Freeways" make them all toll roads.

The folks that need the roads are the users and they should pay for that privilage.
You can't tax over tax. In the taxes for renewal the licence plates you pay allready 10 bucks for bridges, (In Texas) so more taxes? Frankly you are out of your mind.

[jupiter]

BTW, All your income will go to pay taxes. then I should aply for welfare instead and stay at home. What are you smoking?

[Ordie]

BTW would you want some Right-wing antiabortionist telling you what "choice" you have? Because if you want government controlling things there is a good chance that the control might end up in the wrong hands…



The government does not mandate what mode you take. You have the option of driving, biking, taking public transit or walking.

The government does not mandate where you live in connection with your work. You may choose to live within the city close to work. Or in the suburbs away from work. Or work from home if that is the case.

As I stated, driving is a privilage not a right. Therefore you have that option to pay for that privilage if you choose to.

If you don't like paying gas taxes, don't buy gas.

Ride a bike. Its 53 miles per burrito.

[jupiter]

The government does not mandate what mode you take. You have the option of driving, biking, taking public transit or walking.

The government does not mandate where you live in connection with your work. You may choose to live within the city close to work. Or in the suburbs away from work. Or work from home if that is the case.

As I stated, driving is a privilage not a right. Therefore you have that option to pay for that privilage if you choose to.

If you don't like paying gas taxes, don't buy gas.

Ride a bike. Its 53 miles per burrito.
That's the point: Taxes paid for purchase a car, insurance paid, fuel paid, License paid, plates paid, tires paid, surcharges for disposing the old oil, parking lot paid, some toll roads paid. It's not a right, indeed, hence all the previous taxes paid. What more taxes do you want to add?. PS remind myself not to vote for you in the next elections.

[NavyTimes]

Why do you hate freedom Ordie?

I'm going to print that out and frame it, thanks!

[Ordie]

That's the point: Taxes paid for purchase a car, insurance paid, fuel paid, License paid, plates paid, tires paid, surcharges for disposing the old oil, parking lot paid, some toll roads paid. It's not a right, indeed, hence all the previous taxes paid. What more taxes do you want to add?. PS remind myself not to vote for you in the next elections.

If it were up to me, I would place a $1 surcharge on every gallon of fuel as a means motivate people to conserve, use public transit, and innovate for alternative fuels to get rid of our dependency on foriegn oil.

The proceeds of that $1 surcharge to fund public transit.

[jupiter]

Ok. Then every merchant will rise the price of goods and services acordingly. Who will pay the increase? The poor that you defend.

[SBL]

What we're seeing here is the kitchen sink being thrown in opposition to what is a contentious issue. Race has nothing to do with it.


Get rid of "Freeways" make them all toll roads.

The folks that need the roads are the users and they should pay for that privilage.
They're called taxes. Potholes don't fix themselves.

[Zoomie]

If it were up to me, I would place a $1 surcharge on every gallon of fuel as a means motivate people to conserve, use public transit, and innovate for alternative fuels to get rid of our dependency on foriegn oil.

The proceeds of that $1 surcharge to fund public transit.
Have you ever ridden public transit?? I did for 5 years in Orlando, and it sucked. It took over TWO HOURS to go what would take a car just 30min. It's pointless to keep on tossing money at a black hole.

[Ordie]

Ok. Then every merchant will rise the price of goods and services acordingly. Who will pay the increase? The poor that you defend.

Perhaps it will force the manufactuers and growers to produce and deliver closer to thier markets and create local jobs.

[Zoomie]

Perhaps it will force the manufactuers and growers to produce and deliver closer to thier markets and create local jobs.
Brilliant. . .I can't imagine that there won't be any sort of a public backlash to industrial factories being set up next to residential neighborhoods. rofl

[jupiter]

Perhaps it will force the manufactuers and growers to produce and deliver closer to thier markets and create local jobs.
:roll:Wao! You just found the hot water! I'll see on of two things: Prices way over high or many manufacturers closing doors. Public transit? What a joke!

[jupiter]

Have you ever ridden public transit?? I did for 5 years in Orlando, and it sucked. It took over TWO HOURS to go what would take a car just 30min. It's pointless to keep on tossing money at a black hole.
Three hours in Dallas, 20 minutes in car. You can put on the street as many buses as you like, it won't work.

[Ordie]

Have you ever ridden public transit?? I did for 5 years in Orlando, and it sucked. It took over TWO HOURS to go what would take a car just 30min. It's pointless to keep on tossing money at a black hole.

I take public transit every day.

It takes me about 30 minutes but I choose to live near many train and bus lines.

[jupiter]

I take public transit every day.

It takes me about 30 minutes but I choose to live near many train and bus lines.
IN Your city. Not in mine.

[Red_Fern]

What isn't considered racist these days? :cantbeli:

[Sakop]

If Saturday were to be a regular workday, it would be discriminatory against the 7th Day Adventist.

In reality the "weekend" concept came about several angles.

The unions who advocated for a 40 hour workweek.

The Jewish population who took Saturday off.

And the manufactuers who realized that folks were not buying products because the workers had no free time to enjoy them.
Proof that capitalism works and not the government interference. Those rich white men realized their mistakes and made the corrections need to make a…PROFIT. Oh no not that!!! Not a profit off the misfortunes of others.
Have a good weekend.
So the unions played only a part? Then why did you post that here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4429115&postcount=78). So which is it? How about "Thank a CEO for the weekend"...

BOT - Once again we pay for those roads and bridges its called taxes.

[Zoomie]

I take public transit every day.

It takes me about 30 minutes but I choose to live near many train and bus lines.
Well, that's all fine and dandy, but in my situation I didn't have a choice.

[Albatross]

Not a tax.

A user fee.

Public transit is to mitigate congestion.

We do pay a user fee, its called property tax on vehicles which goes to fix roads and what not.


How so?

Is it because they do the right thing and carpool together as a means to reduce our dependency of foreign oil, greenhouse emissions, and congestion?

Your right thing isn't our right thing, thats the problem with liberals.


Mass transit was never meant to make a profit.
Its a public service very much like police and fire fighting.

Mass transit fees are supposed to pay for the damage they cause to the roads, fuel, and upkeep of vehicles.


Don't you want to be free from being dependent on foreign oil?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2575836688_985b440298.jpg

god I really hope you are joking.


Driving is a privilage not a right.

Drivers should pay for that privilage through auto ownership tolls, gas taxes, fuel and insurance no matter what the cost may be.

HUH? Its called taxes and sales tax and fuel tax and a whole bunch of other taxes.


Get rid of "Freeways" make them all toll roads.

The folks that need the roads are the users and they should pay for that privilage.

Freeways were used to free up congestion and make it safer. So we should endanger ourselves because some ****bag in the hood can't afford a car. **** him.




If Saturday were to be a regular workday, it would be discriminatory against the 7th Day Adventist.


So working on Fridays is discriminatory too? Get real.




If it were up to me, I would place a $1 surcharge on every gallon of fuel as a means motivate people to conserve, use public transit, and innovate for alternative fuels to get rid of our dependency on foriegn oil.

The proceeds of that $1 surcharge to fund public transit.

All of us that aren't you appreciate the fact that you will never get elected to office. I think that they should add a tax of $1 to ever MUNI fee in the city for the damage the buses do to the roads.


I take public transit every day.

It takes me about 30 minutes but I choose to live near many train and bus lines.


What about those people that live in the country? You know, the ones that supply your food.

[Ordie]

Three hours in Dallas, 20 minutes in car. You can put on the street as many buses as you like, it won't work.

It will work if cities and businesses stop sprawling and create greater densities around corriodors.

They've done it in Curitiba Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJR9uCSyGKM

[jupiter]

It will work if cities and businesses stop sprawling and create greater densities around corriodors.

They've done it in Curitiba Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJR9uCSyGKM
Why fight.? Go to live in Curitiba!

[[ KOOSHAB ]]

Don't you want to be free from being dependent on foreign oil?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2575836688_985b440298.jpg

I'd really like to Ordie,
but whenever I pull up on the ladies and ask if they want a ride
- they all run away.

:-(

[SBL]

It will work if cities and businesses stop sprawling and create greater densities around corriodors.


Arlington has a very efficient public transportation system that will take you pretty much anywhere you need to go. There are plenty of buses, walkways
and Metro stations.

The issue is with the main arteries that funnel commuters into and out of the DC metro area each day- there's just way too much congestion during peak travel hours. The whole idea behind HOT lanes is to relieve some of the congestion by encouraging people to carpool.

[Dominique]

While I'm all for public transportation, and even the HOV lanes (as I've used them myself), this article is BS. It's nothing more than HUGE waste of taxpayer dollars. Instead of wasting time and money on this sh*t, they need to be spending it figuring out additional ways to cut down on all the damn traffic in the NOVA and Metro DC area.

[[ KOOSHAB ]]

Arlington has a very efficient public transportation system that will take you pretty much anywhere you need to go. There are plenty of buses, walkways
and Metro stations.

Don't forget the VRE

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Cities and metro areas are a losing proposition. If we're going to make everything a toll road or tax gas even more - then use that money to either build new industrial & residential areas well outside of established cities, or to re-populate small towns that have emptied into the cities.

[XShipRider]

Mass transit was never meant to make a profit.
Its a public service very much like police and fire fighting.

Good point. But it should not be such a burden on the taxpayer that it drains the coffers of funds better used for more important projects and services. If it wasn't for continuing federal and state funding the Cleveland system would not exist. With that in mind, why should federal funds be used at all? Why should someone in Butte pay for a Cleveland area transit system?

[brainplay]

;4432396']I'd really like to Ordie,
but whenever I pull up on the ladies and ask if they want a ride
- they all run away.

:-(

Offer money? And if you're one of those...offer candy? p-)

[deagle]

why don't they abolish the speed limit.....if ya wanted to go fast, and stimulate economy by buying more gas, go for it....not just go at the limit and conserve. its not racist to boot.