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acosta
09-22-2009, 11:02 PM
China will increase efforts to improve energy efficiency and curb the rise in CO2 emissions, President Hu Jintao has told a UN climate summit in New York.

Mr Hu gave no details about the measures, which should mean emissions grow less quickly than the economy.

The US, the world's other major emitter, said China's proposals were helpful but figures were needed.

About 100 leaders are attending the talks, ahead of the Copenhagen summit which is due to approve a new treaty.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said failure to agree a treaty in December would be "morally inexcusable".

Negotiators for the Copenhagen summit are trying to agree on a replacement for the Kyoto Protocol to limit carbon emissions.

'Momentous consequences'

Mr Ban called the meeting an attempt to inject momentum into the deadlocked climate talks"Your decisions will have momentous consequences," he told the assembled leaders.

"The fate of future generations, and the hopes and livelihoods of billions today, rest, literally, with you," he added.

The Chinese president said his country would curb its carbon emissions per unit of Gross Domestic Product, a measure also known as carbon intensity, by a "notable margin" by 2020 from the 2005 level.

However, the proposal is unlikely to mean an overall reduction in emissions, as China's economy is expected to continue to grow rapidly.

A US official said that China's proposals were helpful but Beijing needed to provide figures.

"It depends on what the number is," US President Barack Obama's climate change envoy Todd Stern said, quoted by ******* news agency.

But former US vice-president and environmental activist Al Gore praised China's "impressive leadership".

"We've had ... indications that in the event there is dramatic progress in this negotiation, that China will be prepared to do even more," he said.BBC environment reporter Matt McGrath says that much of the debate about tackling global warming revolves around the idea of absolute cuts in emissions of carbon dioxide - but developing countries like India and China feel that this emphasis is unfair.

Richer countries, meanwhile, have had the benefits of centuries of fossil fuel use, and are now demanding that growing nations stop using them with no obvious alternatives in place, he says.

Mr Hu also pledged to "vigorously develop" renewable and nuclear energy.

He restated China's position that developed nations needed to do more than developing nations to fight climate change because they were historically responsible for the problem.

"Developed countries should fulfill the task of emission reduction set in the Kyoto Protocol, continue to undertake substantial mid-term quantified emission reduction targets and support developing countries in countering climate change," he said.

In other speeches at the summit:

US President Obama acknowledged that the US had been slow to act, but promised a "new era" of promoting clean energy and reducing carbon pollution
The new Japanese Prime Minister, Yukio Hatoyama, pledged to reduce emissions by 25% by 2020 compared to the 1990 level, calling it the Hatoyama Initiative
French President Nicolas Sarkozy called on leaders to meet again in mid-November ahead of the crucial Copenhagen conferenceAccording to the BBC's UN correspondent, Barbara Plett, discussions have stalled because rich nations are not pledging to cut enough carbon to take the world out of danger, while poorer countries are refusing to commit to binding caps, saying this would prevent them from developing their economies.

China's role is crucial, because it is both an emerging economy and a big polluter, our correspondent says.

Despite all its advances in green technology, China still gets 70% of its energy from coal - and as its economy increases, this means yet more growth in greenhouse gases, our correspondent says.

Pressure on US

There is also concern about the US.

Airlines plan 'to cut emissions'
Challenge to developed world


President Obama has recognised climate change as a pressing issue, unlike the previous administration, our UN correspondent says.

He has already announced a target of returning to 1990 levels of greenhouse emissions by 2020, but critics say Washington is moving too slowly on legislation which does not go far enough.

President Obama is currently dogged by domestic issues such as the economy and healthcare reforms, but his speech to the UN meeting will still be watched for signs he is willing to fulfil his pledge to take the lead in reaching a global carbon deal.

A demonstration of political will by both China and the US will be important in breaking the deadlock in negotiations, correspondents say.

China and the US each account for about 20% of the world's greenhouse gas pollution from coal, natural gas and oil.

The European Union is responsible for 14%, followed by Russia and India with 5% each.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8268077.stm

now the problem how to recon the conflict of growing and less emitting, a problem not to china, but to other emerging nations, and even the new u.s economy.

acosta
09-23-2009, 03:07 AM
suddenly nobody care about this subject?:)

Elbs
09-23-2009, 03:14 AM
To be honest, I doubt that China can do much about its emissions. It's in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation:

China HAS to provide a certain number of new jobs each year to keep unemployment down and keep its economy prosperous (which legitimizes the government). This depends on cheap energy, and fossil fuels are the cheapest by far.

China also has responsibilities as a major power and will take flak for not doing enough to fight pollution, seeing as how it is a major contributor to world pollution.


Reduce pollution, at the cost of jobs.
Don't reduce pollution, world scorn.

Tough choices ahead for China

acosta
09-23-2009, 03:23 AM
no. several years ago, china take a wait and see position. and level with others to climate matters.

but this time, Hu must bring some determination from the latest CCP intermediate meeting last week. econ sustainability and new energy tech are now concerning not only the future growth, but also the leadership. and CCP left wing's taking stage.

don't always underestimate CCP leader's wisdom and insight, they might be more forefront in some area. and communism people are historically more liberal, and they tend to accept new things.

Elbs
09-23-2009, 03:26 AM
Communist or not, China's energy plants burn mostly coal.

Coal is dirty, but cheap. Building green facilities takes time and money, neither of which I think the CCP is all too eager to waste considering the demands they have to create jobs and economic growth.

acosta
09-23-2009, 03:34 AM
Communist or not, China's energy plants burn mostly coal.

Coal is dirty, but cheap. Building green facilities takes time and money, neither of which I think the CCP is all too eager to waste considering the demands they have to create jobs and economic growth.

totally agree, china's economy need more energy, now the largest coal consumer, years it's going to be the largest oil consumer too.

but for the coal part, you've got to respect it. it helped up through industry revolution.

by the way, china has more coal resource than oil.

brainplay
09-23-2009, 09:02 AM
China suddenly promising a reduction in emissions can lead to a few things.

- Requests for efficient technologies including assistance and aid.
- Insistence on admittance and domination of the cap and trade industry for which China has an overabundance of open green territory to claim credits.
- Excuse to expand their work in nuclear energy in addition to requests for nuclear technology.

Hongjian
09-23-2009, 10:18 AM
China suddenly promising a reduction in emissions can lead to a few things.

- Requests for efficient technologies including assistance and aid.
- Insistence on admittance and domination of the cap and trade industry for which China has an overabundance of open green territory to claim credits.
- Excuse to expand their work in nuclear energy in addition to requests for nuclear technology.


This is maybe true.

China did request assistance for efficient technologies, especially from Europe. But of course Europe declined the request because they surely didnt want to play the good samaritan and sell it to China for a bargain price.
And the second point is also true, but regarding the Nuclear Technology, I dunno about it.
China has already mastered the civillian nuclear energy and nobody is critizising China for it (they are one of the traditional nuclear big five after all).
According to my information, China will not continue to build more nuclear-plants, other than the five new they have planned to build some time ago, but to heavily invest in green energy such as wind-power and solar-energy instead.
This could also be seen as Chinese Green-Energy Companies such as Solar-Wafer- and Wind-Engine Manufacturer flooded the stock-markets last month (now dubbed the 'Chinese Nasdaq' by stockholders) and by the fact that our German Solar-Panel Manufacturers are bitching about Chinese Dumping-prices in these sector and are calling for high customs to protect their domestic markets.

Other than that, China has started the building of the world largest Wind-park, rated at 100 Gigawatt, in the Inner-Mongolia and has announced that by 2020, 15% of all domestic energy procuction will be green.
Also they are planning to build the world largest Solar-plant in the Qaidam-Desert in the North-West, rated at one Gigawatt.

But all of these are politically obligatory decisions. China cannot be dependant on fossil energy forever, seeing how this could lead into a dangerous change of the geopolitical Status Quo...

Shuimo
09-23-2009, 01:55 PM
Rud is singing nice tunes to China with an eye to patch up the soured realtions btw China and Australia at the cost of bad mouthing Obama? I sort of wonder!




Dennis Shanahan, Political editor, New York | September 24, 2009
Article from: The Australian

KEVIN Rudd has appealed to world leaders, specifically to US President Barack Obama, to act after 65 years of international organisational stagnation and to form a dynamic and effective "driving centre" of nations to create a new world order.

Only hours before he was due to address the UN General Assembly and a day before a summit on the global financial crisis and reforms of the International Monetary Fund in Pittsburgh, the Prime Minister has described those international bodies as static, stalemated and too large to be effective.

Mr Rudd also praised new offers from China and Japan on cutting greenhouse gas emissions ahead of the Copenhagen climate change conference, but gave only limited approval to the offering by Mr Obama.

Speaking at the UN, Mr Rudd, who chaired a roundtable discussion on climate change, said: "We can no longer afford to wait for action on climate change; the time for action is now.

But Mr Rudd again turned to Mr Obama to exercise world leadership to form a new order with the Group of 20 - which includes Australia and the huge developing economies of China, India and Brazil, as well as Muslim nations - at the centre.

In a speech prepared for the Foreign Policy Association of New York, before his evening address to the UN General Assembly, Mr Rudd says: "Our global institutions have largely remained static while the world they were designed to serve has been dynamic beyond anyone's imagining."

Mr Rudd's speech is the culmination of months of economic and diplomatic persuasion and world travel to ensure any evolving G20 group, of which Australia is a founding member, continues to include Australia as a key player and is not overtaken by "old Europe" and the world's biggest economies.

Australia has been forging a closer relationship with Latin American nations and India, as well as enhancing its relationship with the US, to build a middle order, non-European-dominated group to influence the G20.

Mr Rudd says the effectiveness of a smaller group than the UN but a more diverse group than the eight largest industrialised economies, such as the G20, has been shown by its ability to make quick and competent decisions to deal with the global financial crisis and to avoid another Great Depression. In the speech, Mr Rudd takes aim at the bloated membership of the UN - which has quadrupled to 192 from its original 50 nation members - and "its proliferation of non-state actors" and the IMF's inability to deal with the global financial crisis.

"The new and pressing functional demands of a rapidly unfolding global order are now rubbing up against the increasingly dysfunctional nature of global institutions that are either out of their depth, insufficiently empowered, or reduced to a negotiating stalemate by the politics of the lowest common denominator," he says.

"We have seen this in a number of global institutions. We have seen this in the UN Security Council. We have seen it on nuclear disarmament.

"And, most critically, we have seen it recently with the IMF impeded by its limited and now almost ancient mandate, and by the limited resources made available to it to deal with a financial and economic crisis of the type we have had forced upon us these last 12 months.

"The global financial crisis has demonstrated one core point: that the formal institutional architecture established to deal with a potential systemic collapse failed when put to the test and had to be rapidly superseded by the emergency actions of central banks and executive governments acting through the agency of the G20," he said.

He says the global economy of today "has become a truly global economy unimaginable to the relatively autonomous economies of the immediate postwar period", and that "the global institutions have not kept pace with the rapidly changing global reality".

"The new and pressing functional demands of a rapidly unfolding global order are now rubbing up against the increasingly dysfunctional nature of global institutions that are either out of their depth, insufficiently empowered, or reduced to a negotiating stalemate by the politics of the lowest common denominator."

But Mr Rudd, who was introduced by the great-grandson of president Theodore Roosevelt, says the inability of the institutions to keep pace is "not an argument for their wholesale replacement".

"It is, however, an argument for their comprehensive renewal," he says.

And that renewal can occur only through US global leadership which, he says, is a force for good in the world.

"American leadership must also be supported in this new endeavour by a new driving centre of global politics and the global economy (with) a group of nations, both developed and developing, sharing a broad commitment to make the existing institutions of global governance solve the problems faced by the global order rather than simply avoid them," he says.

At a meeting with former US president Bill Clinton yesterday Mr Rudd said that in the "21st century it makes no sense to have an institution of global economic governance that excludes China, India, Brazil, Mexico and the Muslim world".

Mr Rudd said that while the G20 had its imperfections, its composition included five countries from the Americas, five from Asia, five from Europe, and five "including guys like us that don't particularly belong anywhere".

But he said the diversity provided greater legitimacy than the smaller groups of rich and industrialised nations, such as the G7, and that having emerging economies involved changed the "centre of gravity of the discussion".

"That's really important - poverty is discussed; the question of development is discussed," he said.

Mr Rudd said the G20 meeting in London had done a lot to stop the fall of business confidence during the global financial crisis but the challenge was now "to craft the long-term recovery, and that's what Pittsburgh, under President Obama's leadership, is all about".

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26117296-601,00.html

West Texican
09-23-2009, 05:18 PM
"Mr Rudd's speech is the culmination of months of economic and diplomatic persuasion and world travel to ensure any evolving G20 group, of which Australia is a founding member, continues to include Australia as a key player and is not overtaken by "old Europe" and the world's biggest economies."

All of the jet settin' around the world is not good for the environment. Someone needs to show him how to use the phone.

FlintHillBilly
09-23-2009, 05:54 PM
China is gonna have to cut alot more green house gases.... Have they even cut any at all? Wouldnt cutting green house gases, mean less of a profit?

Siddar
09-23-2009, 07:21 PM
China isnt going to cut anything there going to keep increasing.

Were in the midst of a global propagnada campaign to pass cap and trade in the US. Anything resembling the truth is out the window in regards to global warming at the moment.

Its going to fail just like obamacare is going to fail.

cn_habs
09-23-2009, 11:09 PM
China is gonna have to cut alot more green house gases.... Have they even cut any at all? Wouldnt cutting green house gases, mean less of a profit?

Yes, you are right. Don't you think the US have even more to lose? BTW, which country has polluted the most in this century by a fair margin?

FlintHillBilly
09-23-2009, 11:20 PM
China isnt going to cut anything there going to keep increasing.

Were in the midst of a global propagnada campaign to pass cap and trade in the US. Anything resembling the truth is out the window in regards to global warming at the moment.

Its going to fail just like obamacare is going to fail.

I sure hope so. Look at all the oposition on the obama care.. no tellin how many more pissed off people there will be if they do anything with the guns.