Israel's Intifada Victory

[army cadet_ngcsu]

Israel's Intifada Victory

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 18, 2004; Page A29


While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

For Israel, the victory is bitter. The past four years of terrorism have killed almost 1,000 Israelis and maimed thousands of others. But Israel has won strategically. The intent of the intifada was to demoralize Israel, destroy its economy, bring it to its knees, and thus force it to withdraw and surrender to Palestinian demands, just as Israel withdrew in defeat from southern Lebanon in May 2000.

That did not happen. Israel's economy was certainly wounded, but it is growing again. Tourism had dwindled to almost nothing at the height of the intifada, but tourists are returning. And the Israelis were never demoralized. They kept living their lives, the young people in particular returning to cafes and discos and buses just hours after a horrific bombing. Israelis turned out to be a lot tougher and braver than the Palestinians had imagined.

The end of the intifada does not mean the end of terrorism. There was terrorism before the intifada and there will be terrorism to come. What has happened, however, is an end to systematic, regular, debilitating, unstoppable terror -- terror as a reliable weapon. At the height of the intifada, there were nine suicide attacks in Israel killing 85 Israelis in just one month (March 2002). In the past three months there have been none.

The overall level of violence has been reduced by more than 70 percent. How did Israel do it? By ignoring its critics and launching a two-****ged campaign of self-defense.

First, Israel targeted terrorist leaders -- attacks so hypocritically denounced by Westerners who, at the same time, cheer the hunt for, and demand the head of, Osama bin Laden. The top echelon of Hamas and other terrorist groups has been either arrested, killed or driven underground. The others are now so afraid of Israeli precision and intelligence -- the last Hamas operative to be killed by missile was riding a motorcycle -- that they are forced to devote much of their time and energy to self-protection and concealment.

Second, the fence. Only about a quarter of the separation fence has been built, but its effect is unmistakable. The northern part is already complete, and attacks in northern Israel have dwindled to almost nothing.

This success does not just save innocent lives; it changes the strategic equation of the whole conflict.

Yasser Arafat started the intifada in September 2000, just weeks after he had rejected, at Camp David, Israel's offer of withdrawal, settlement evacuation, sharing of Jerusalem and establishment of a Palestinian state. Arafat wanted all that, of course, but without having to make peace and recognize a Jewish state. Hence the terror campaign -- to force Israel to give it all up unilaterally.

Arafat failed, spectacularly. The violence did not bring Israel to its knees. Instead, it created chaos, lawlessness and economic disaster in the Palestinian areas. The Palestinians know the ruin that Arafat has brought, and they are beginning to protest it. He promised them blood and victory; he delivered on the blood.

Even more important, they have lost their place at the table. Israel is now defining a new equilibrium that will reign for years to come -- the separation fence is unilaterally drawing the line that separates Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians were offered the chance to negotiate that frontier at Camp David and chose war instead. Now they are paying the price.

It stands to reason. It is the height of absurdity to launch a terrorist war against Israel, then demand the right to determine the nature and route of the barrier built to prevent that very terrorism.

These new strategic realities are not just creating a new equilibrium, they are creating the first hope for peace since Arafat officially tore up the Oslo accords four years ago. Once Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and has completed the fence, terrorism as a strategic option will be effectively dead. The only way for the Palestinians to achieve statehood and dignity, and to determine the contours of their own state, will be to negotiate a final peace based on genuine coexistence with a Jewish state.

It could be a year, five years or a generation until the Palestinians come to that realization. The pity is that so many, Arab and Israeli, will have had to die before then.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com


© 2004 The Washington Post Company

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A50910-2004Jun17?language=printer

[gilgoul]

I`m sadly agreing with you, I say sadly because we lost so much in this conflict, embiterred the relations not only between us and the palestinians but also between ourselves, in the debate that is yet to be done about our own society.
I`m sad also because this conflict cut the bridge between us and Europe, showed us the true face of a powerless, bitter and still haunted by it`s ghosts old continent, while creating a providencial but heavy relationship with the USA (I talk about a new, USA like, social building in Israel that threw away it`s welfare to enter the era of ultra capitalism, in a country that can barely adapt to it).
Europe politicians, i`m not saying the people of europe, shwed us their ugliest face, the one that reminded me of the worst hours, of dreyfus and vichy, the one that brought together anti religious and HAMAS and Hizbullah flag waivers together on the "place de la republique". in Paris, the one that saw the complete demonization of Israel, it`s complete deligitimisation, demonisation. The one that once again didn`t stand to it`s "ideals" in order to put a little more petrol in it`s cars and a little more money in it`s political parties financing.
By the way, it is the same place that tells us that we are contravening internaional law, while trading hapily with the genocidal regime of Sudan.
Basically, a lot of biterness came out of it, and genuine peace won`t come now.

At least some quiet?

[Kitsune]

I do not share Mr. Krauthammers optimism, that the Intifadah has ended. If it is, than only in the sense that the Intifadah is seen as a mere chapter in the larger israeli-palestinian conflict.
The Palestininas still feel occupied, mistreated and humiliated. None of their hopes have come true, in fact Israel has excluded them, as the article says, from their part at the table. My point here is not wether this was right or wrong. Point is: For the Palestinians this fight is about their very existence. As a people. A nation. Its to be or not to be. And one does not give up such a fight. One simply cannot.

This conflict is only solved by two means: Either Israel finally makes concessions (accepts a fullfledged Palestinian state, that is made of most of the Westbank area, with East Jerusalem as its Capital) or violence of the highest degree is used (e.g. a huge ethnic cleansing in the Westbank and the Gaza strip).
Until then one thing seems to be sure to me: There will perhaps be a break in this fight. A rest. But violence and bloodshed will start again.
That is only a matter of time.
:(

[gilgoul]

I do not share Mr. Krauthammers optimism, that the Intifadah has ended. If it is, than only in the sense that the Intifadah is seen as a mere chapter in the larger israeli-palestinian conflict.
The Palestininas still feel occupied, mistreated and humiliated. None of their hopes have come true, in fact Israel has excluded them, as the article says, from their part at the table. My point here is not wether this was right or wrong. Point is: For the Palestinians this fight is about their very existence. As a people. A nation. Its to be or not to be. And one does not give up such a fight. One simply cannot.

This conflict is only solved by two means: Either Israel finally makes concessions (accepts a fullfledged Palestinian state, that is made of most of the Westbank area, with East Jerusalem as its Capital) or violence of the highest degree is used (e.g. a huge ethnic cleansing in the Westbank and the Gaza strip).
Until then one thing seems to be sure to me: There will perhaps be a break in this fight. A rest. But violence and bloodshed will start again.
That is only a matter of time.
:(

The point of this article might be to "no con" for you, but it was clear inthe sense that the palestinians lost again this battle.
That violence will erupt, no doubt,'
That Israel needs to asks itself what it really wants for a part of the state, and what can be conceded to the palestinians, no doubts.
But I can tell you, this article was good for one thing, it showed that the sanguine attitude, the agressiveness of the FATAH brought them nowhere, and that the steadfastness of the Israeli public, determined not to give way to any kind of violent pressure works.
The palestinians will eventually have their state, but forget about claiming half of the Neguev and Jerusalem as it`s capital, it won`t happen in our life time.
They never reached their stated objectivem in that we won, they alienated themselves even from their ardent suporters in Israel, in that they lost.
The question of the existence of a palestinian state is negociable, not the Israel`s one, never forget that.

[/McH\]

Point is: For the Palestinians this fight is about their very existence.

No body tries to eliminate them.. so the question here is not "to be or not to be", but "to live in peace or not to live in peace"


This conflict is only solved by two means: Either Israel finally makes concessions (accepts a fullfledged Palestinian state, that is made of most of the Westbank area, with East Jerusalem as its Capital) or violence of the highest degree is used (e.g. a huge ethnic cleansing in the Westbank and the Gaza strip).


We already accepted a Palastinian State, but the Problem is 'the right of return', that if we will accept it, it will bring the Destruction of Israel.

Also you forgat a third option.. the palastinian should stop their fighting ,it is useless, and go back to the Negotiations Table, as long as they keep fighting, they wont get **** accept a Tank Shell in their face.

[Sayeret]

Kitsune wrote:

The Palestininas still feel occupied, mistreated and humiliated. None of their hopes have come true, in fact Israel has excluded them, as the article says, from their part at the table.

Israel is actually doing stuff like pulling out of Gaza unlike the Palestinians who continue to carry out attacks. The PA was supposed to stop these attacks yet they don't.

[IDFM203]

I do not share Mr. Krauthammers optimism, that the Intifadah has ended. I don’t think even he really means that, he just means that their violent fight against us has ended are mostly stopped and its ONLY because of our actions, that it has been severely curtailed….of course their goals and motivations and desires to destroy us are still there, but their attacks to do that are severely restricted now!!


None of their hopes have come true, if their hopes were merely for just the west bank and Gaza, then the fault for that is on them, for they could have had it but they rejected it.

If its for the whole Israel, as I believe a lot of them fight for (especially as I believe that rejection further shows), well indeed it hasn’t come true and we wont allow it.


in fact Israel has excluded them, as the article says, from their part at the table. ahh? Israel only did that AFTER it was clear that they weren’t really interested in any real peace, for throughout the 90’s they were at the table but after they rejected a great offer and then tuned to more violence well yes we don’t take them seriously as I believe anyone in our position would also do.


My point here is not wether this was right or wrong. Point is: For the Palestinians this fight is about their very existence. Their existence?? Ahh? We never have tried to destroy them!!!! I could go on how I see what their fight it but for now I will just leave it as the question I asked.


This conflict is only solved by two means: Either Israel finally makes concessions (accepts a fullfledged Palestinian state, that is made of most of the Westbank area, with East Jerusalem as its Capital) Yes so now we can have a hostile population (with lots that still want to see us ALL destroyed) even closer to us with their rockets, mortars, ak47’s now hitting our cities, especially even more so since we wont be there to stop the huge flow of arms that IMO will flow in unfettered if we do pull out.


or violence of the highest degree is used (e.g. a huge ethnic cleansing in the Westbank and the Gaza strip). Well I am not saying this is what I think, but we don’t need to kill them all, we can just ship them to the other 22 Arab countries there, that’s if you are thinking extremes.

Anyways yes that’s a bad option as IMO the first one is as well, simply due to the realties from them that we face, so I believe for now there is no peaceful solution no matter what we do, so instead we build for more security as we are doing and the least we will force, as we have done, there to be much less violence against us.



Until then one thing seems to be sure to me: There will perhaps be a break in this fight. A rest. But violence and bloodshed will start again.
That is only a matter of time. yes there will be another homicide bombing and yes there will be another shooting attack, but if we keep up what we are doing and even also complete the anti terror fence, well it wont be like how it was before 2002 and before we went on the offensive and also before we started to build the anti terror security fence, where we had a homicide bombing and shooting attacks almost daily and for sure weekly, that I don’t think we will see.


Like the article says, we have forced violence to drop by over 70 percent and its going higher, but yes that doesn’t mean that we can stop it all, but I still prefer the over 70 percent drop then having it how it was before, where it seemed that we were getting attacked daily (and sometimes twice a day).

So yes what is written in that article and the sense of what we have forced to happen especially in the absence of any REAL peace partner from the other side, IMO is a victory for us!!!

Shalom :D