Special Forces and Secrecy

[2RHPZ]

Very interesting article stolen from another forum:


An aspect of modern warfare which greatly bothers me is the secrecy which is applied to special forces and their operations. The general public (read: taxpayers) are only given limited information about the size, structure and doctrine and effectiveness of these units and the only operations which are publicised are those which the government and military are happy to reveal.

As a great fan of disclosure, all of the above strikes me as unacceptable. Sure, I accept that certain details of all military units and their capabilities needs to remain secret, especially when those units are deployed on operations, but the special forces take things too far. As a result, these units cannot be held to account by the taxpayers/voters to the extent which conventional units are. This gives governments scope to conduct unlawful or unethical operations with these units safe in the knowledge that they'll never be reported, allows the cover-up of blunders and encourages wasteful spending of taxpayers money. In addition, the air of mystery around these units may act to reduce their deterrent value (which, after all, is the main reason liberal democracies maintain large standing militaries in peace-time) thereby limiting their overall effectiveness.

Another result of the secrecy which surrounds special forces is that the media and public tend to overestimate the extent to which information on these units is classified. This results in government statements on special forces being taken at face value and the media often over-estimating the effectiveness of special forces in the belief that no other information is available and that probing for more information is akin to espionage. Clearly, this doesn't help foster debate about these units and their operations or contribute to the government and military being held to account.

For instance, take the Australian Special Air Service. I'm currently writing an article on this unit, and have been astonished about how limited the information on it is. It's strength is 'about 700 men', its budget is classified, its organisational structure is hazy, many of its past deployments are classified and, most disturbingly, the rules guiding the use within Australia's borders appear to be unclear.

The official line is that its one of the best such units in the world, and provides good value for money. However, there is no way for the public to reliably test either proposition. This isn't the case for other units, whose overall cost, performance and efficiency is detailed in the Department of Defence's publicly released annual report. Furthermore, there is evidence that the SAS has been and currently is currently involved with operations which would not be approved of by most Australians (for instance, it appears that it entered Iraq well before the deadline to Saddam Hussein expired and it seems to be assisting the Phillipino and Indonesian special forces, despite their records of human rights abuses [the Indonesian Special Forces are held in utter contempt by most Australians]). In addition, it's still not clear what the SAS got up to in Afghanistan, though it appears that some of their operations went badly and the force was at times misused. The only book which touches on this topic, Robin Moore's 'Task Force Dagger', is regarded as near-fiction by people in the know, yet the Australian public isn't given even a partial account of what went on (other then scattered media reports of victories against great odds).

So, what do you think? Should more information be made available on special forces units and their effectiveness and operations, or is it right for these units to remain in the shadows?

Well, and you think that ... (?)

[Minjin]

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing more information on such forces, but that is just for my own personal reasons. I think the nature of the business in a lot of cases requires huge amounts of secrecy. Maybe not so much with "Hearts and minds" campaigns but with actual combat oriented ops I think the existing secrecy is a great feature for maintaining the security of the soldiers in question and their families.

[Deuterium]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I'm a reporter you have to tell me everything because... I'm a reporter and you have to tell me everything.

Geesh. Why don't we publish pictures of undercover cops and their activities because we are taxpayers and we have a right to know.

And what about Santa's elves? How about some pics or at least a report on their activities.

[Flagg]

It's even worse here in New Zealand.

1st Group NZSAS was amongst the earliest allied force deployments to Afghanistan in 2001-2002.

Defining the extent of the disclosure to the NZ public as minimal would be an overstatement.

It was actually quite embarrassing for the government here as the policy has been to not disclose NZSAS activities, yet the US government posted its appreciation for The Group and it's achievements on an official US website and press release.

I, for one, think disclosure should be limited.

With the advent of the internet and cheap telecommunications it's already easy enough for potential adversaries with half a brain to acquire quite useful, if not critical, information via the public domain and disseminate it amongst their fellow mongrels.

I think policy should be to stay tight lipped.

Media disclosure should be limited to PR and recruiting efforts.

Ultimately, SF is controlled by a popularly elected civilian government on a typically short and direct chain of command(compared to conventional forces)......if you trust your elected leadership, there's nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, we're in the middle of a popularity surge in public desire regarding SF....they're like "rockstars" at the moment.....

Like all things...this will pass......and hopefully this debate reagrding SF disclosure will be forgotten

[5jumpchump]

I second that . Sounds like a pissed off reporter just filling his "report" with a bunch of waaaaaaaa because he didn't get what he wanted . Poor poor baby .

[shrek]

No More, No Less! F..k him and all his buddies!

All they want to do is expose us so that they can try and make us look overpriced and unecessary. Expose us all and reduce our operational ability to nada.
You want to know what makes my blood boil, not some Afghani asshole that wants to cap me because of what he believes in, i see that as being a worthy adversary. No, it's assmonkeys like this that want to buy there wide screen TVs and Mercedes and then tell me that I should expose myself more to them so that they can make more money writing their BS stories not thinking once about the consequences.

Ok, i'm pissed now, I need a beer!

[n4292936]

The official line is that its one of the best such units in the world, and provides good value for money. However, there is no way for the public to reliably test either proposition. This isn't the case for other units, whose overall cost, performance and efficiency is detailed in the Department of Defence's publicly released annual report. Furthermore, there is evidence that the SAS has been and currently is currently involved with operations which would not be approved of by most Australians (for instance, it appears that it entered Iraq well before the deadline to Saddam Hussein expired and it seems to be assisting the Phillipino and Indonesian special forces, despite their records of human rights abuses [the Indonesian Special Forces are held in utter contempt by most Australians]). In addition, it's still not clear what the SAS got up to in Afghanistan, though it appears that some of their operations went badly and the force was at times misused. The only book which touches on this topic, Robin Moore's 'Task Force Dagger', is regarded as near-fiction by people in the know, yet the Australian public isn't given even a partial account of what went on (other then scattered media reports of victories against great odds).

So, what do you think? Should more information be made available on special forces units and their effectiveness and operations, or is it right for these units to remain in the shadows?
He's actually off the mark a little bit here. The details regarding both the SF Commandos and their TAG group are classified in the same way the SAS is. Selections are not released, overseas base locations are not divulged, and little public info is released except for that which the PR people deam necessary to generate recruits and sate the appetites of our ravenous media. For better or worse, the focus of inquiries in Australia seems to be limited to the SAS and not the Commandos or its (or the SAS's) TAG teams.
This guys does like a bit of a whining child doesnt he. Robin Moore's book, from what I recall, detailed very little of the SAS ops, and was generally glowing in its review of them. Oz SF in Iraq (Cdo & SAS) was similarly praised. I dont know what the hell he was expecting but he seems to fail to recognise the inherent lunacy of a front page headline saying "Special Forces cross into Iraq ahead of conventional forces to lay groundwork for invasion" given the historical trend for standing orders to kill captured SF soldiers.

[moughoun]

The official line is that its one of the best such units in the world, and provides good value for money. However, there is no way for the public to reliably test either proposition. This isn't the case for other units, whose overall cost, performance and efficiency is detailed in the Department of Defence's publicly released annual report. Furthermore, there is evidence that the SAS has been and currently is currently involved with operations which would not be approved of by most Australians (for instance, it appears that it entered Iraq well before the deadline to Saddam Hussein expired and it seems to be assisting the Phillipino and Indonesian special forces, despite their records of human rights abuses [the Indonesian Special Forces are held in utter contempt by most Australians]). In addition, it's still not clear what the SAS got up to in Afghanistan, though it appears that some of their operations went badly and the force was at times misused. The only book which touches on this topic, Robin Moore's 'Task Force Dagger', is regarded as near-fiction by people in the know, yet the Australian public isn't given even a partial account of what went on (other then scattered media reports of victories against great odds).

So, what do you think? Should more information be made available on special forces units and their effectiveness and operations, or is it right for these units to remain in the shadows?
He's actually off the mark a little bit here. The details regarding both the SF Commandos and their TAG group are classified in the same way the SAS is. Selections are not released, overseas base locations are not divulged, and little public info is released except for that which the PR people deam necessary to generate recruits and sate the appetites of our ravenous media. For better or worse, the focus of inquiries in Australia seems to be limited to the SAS and not the Commandos or its (or the SAS's) TAG teams.
This guys does like a bit of a whining child doesnt he. Robin Moore's book, from what I recall, detailed very little of the SAS ops, and was generally glowing in its review of them. Oz SF in Iraq (Cdo & SAS) was similarly praised. I dont know what the hell he was expecting but he seems to fail to recognise the inherent lunacy of a front page headline saying "Special Forces cross into Iraq ahead of conventional forces to lay groundwork for invasion" given the historical trend for standing orders to kill captured SF soldiers.


Yes, that an the historical trend in reporter's being as thick as pig **** on secuirity matter's, which remind's me of a funny story, 3 year's ago here the army brass thought it would be"great" if they allowed a reporter to tag along on an ARW training session, to cut a long story short he was medivac 6 hour's after the start, with a dislocated hip, exhaustion and concusion, bless his little heart p-)

[Red]

I have said it before and i will say it again,there are some things that the public just do not need to know.What this guys is asking for could cost the lives of hundreds of individuals.

[wyrm_142]

Ok, i'm pissed now, I need a beer!

Gimme 10-digit grid and I'll get a MC-130 in with a pallet of PBR ;)

Does this hoser want to know how the F-22's radar works too? Gimme a break, its Secret for a reason (typicall so the evil do'ers don't know).

[Deuterium]

Ok, i'm pissed now, I need a beer!

Gimme 10-digit grid and I'll get a MC-130 in with a pallet of PBR ;)

Does this hoser want to know how the F-22's radar works too? Gimme a break, its Secret for a reason (typicall so the evil do'ers don't know).

I speak from personal experience, don't use a TALON. The only thing you'll get if they discover beer on a bundle is a "Thank-You" note and the empties.

[mocking_loudly_died]

International Special Forces are the new football teams for the fan boys. People want more disclosure not for any real logical purpose but so they can come to forums and spout the time honored text nonsense in the form of "SAS ROXXERS LIKE A BITCH!" or "ONLY DELTA GIVES ME WOOD!".

If you don't understand deployments you obviously don't need to know.

[Red]

Ok, i'm pissed now, I need a beer!

Gimme 10-digit grid and I'll get a MC-130 in with a pallet of PBR ;)

Does this hoser want to know how the F-22's radar works too? Gimme a break, its Secret for a reason (typicall so the evil do'ers don't know).

I speak from personal experience, don't use a TALON. The only thing you'll get if they discover beer on a bundle is a "Thank-You" note and the empties.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhaa

[moughoun]

International Special Forces are the new football teams for the fan boys. People want more disclosure not for any real logical purpose but so they can come to forums and spout the time honored text nonsense in the form of "SAS ROXXERS LIKE A BITCH!" or "ONLY DELTA GIVES ME WOOD!".

If you don't understand deployments you obviously don't need to know.

That strangly make's sense,weird,

btw Mocking, my magic potato is missing I think you may have it, can I have it back please p-)

[ibstolidude]

Ok, i'm pissed now, I need a beer!

Gimme 10-digit grid and I'll get a MC-130 in with a pallet of PBR ;)

Does this hoser want to know how the F-22's radar works too? Gimme a break, its Secret for a reason (typicall so the evil do'ers don't know).

I speak from personal experience, don't use a TALON. The only thing you'll get if they discover beer on a bundle is a "Thank-You" note and the empties.
yea, but atleast you won't have to spend 6 hours trying to complete the hazmat docs; and occasionally the MC's will land rather than fly-by after you set up the lz.