Chicago Violence Haunts Obama as Gun-Control Backers Left Cold

[Geezah]

At least 47 school-age children in Chicago have been killed in homicides, mostly by guns, since the month President Barack Obama took office.

The latest youth homicide in his adopted hometown was different only in that the attackers used splintered railroad ties and were captured on video broadcast globally.

The Sept. 24 attack prompted Obama to send his attorney general and education secretary to Chicago today after the killing tarnished the city’s drive to win the 2016 Olympics.

“The savage beating of Derrion Albert, recycled on television, embarrassed Chicago and the nation,” said the Reverend Jesse Jackson, a civil-rights activist and founder of the RainbowPUSH Coalition. “You can’t ignore the case.”

U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder plan to appear at City Hall with Mayor Richard Daley in what the Obama administration described as a search for solutions to youth crime. They also will meet privately with students and parents.

Chicago’s violence has long burdened Obama’s political career, including the embarrassment of a missed vote as a state senator that hurt his 2000 bid for Congress. Duncan, 44, a Chicago native and Obama friend, admits to “total failure” in curbing violence during his seven years as chief of the nation’s third-largest school system, which serves more than 400,000 students, 85 percent of them living below the poverty line.

Some gun-control advocates question the administration’s timing as Duncan and Holder arrive after a highly publicized beating that didn’t involve a gun.

Missed Opportunities

“Where there have been opportunities for the president to speak out about the issue of firearm violence, he has missed any number of opportunities,” said Thom Mannard, executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence.

Doing so in the Albert case “provides the cover” to address youth violence without confronting the gun lobby, said Mannard, whose group’s board of directors included Duncan until he left for his current post.

The administration defended its record.

“President Obama is committed to combating violence on our streets and in our schools, both in Chicago -- which has been particularly hard hit -- and around the nation,” White House spokeswoman Amy Brundage said in a statement. “The administration has focused on the issue of youth violence from the outset.”

The beating death of Albert, 16, an honor student, renewed outrage and prompted a call to action in a city where 398 students were shot in the past 12 months, said Monique Bond, a spokeswoman for the Chicago Public Schools. Four teens have been charged in connection with Albert’s killing.

Obama Sermon

The incident happened less than five miles from a church where Obama gave a sermon in July 2007 challenging the government, the gun lobby and the public to stop gun violence.

“Our playgrounds have become battlegrounds,” he told a standing-room congregation. “Our streets have become cemeteries. Our schools have become places to mourn the ones we’ve lost. The violence is unacceptable.”

Obama at the time called for better enforcement of existing gun laws, tighter background checks on gun buyers and a permanent assault-weapons ban.

Some of the students involved in the recent fatal fight live in Altgeld Gardens, a public housing project where Obama worked in the mid-1980s as a community organizer.

At Risk

Like Obama, 48, Duncan is familiar with youth violence in Chicago. Duncan was replaced as Chicago schools chief by Ron Huberman, a former Chicago police officer and transit official who is experimenting with a $30 million project to focus on about 1,200 high school students in danger of being shot.

The district identified those students based on grades, attendance and serious misconduct. The analysis suggests the 200 high school students most at risk have a 20 percent chance of becoming a victim of gun violence.

One of Obama’s first high-profile brushes with the anguish associated with gun violence came amid his unsuccessful primary campaign for Congress against Representative Bobby Rush, a former Black Panther.

Rush’s son was shot in October 1999 and died four days later, producing an outpouring of support for the incumbent.

Gun Vote

Later that fall, the Illinois legislature was called into special session to consider gun-safety initiatives that Obama supported.

When a crucial vote came earlier than expected, Obama was in Hawaii visiting the grandmother who helped raise him. The legislation failed by five votes as he remained in Hawaii to help care for a sick daughter, sparking criticism.

Daley initially played down the impact of the Albert case on the city’s Olympics bid. Still, his first public comments upon his return from Copenhagen were to address the violence and the “code of silence” surrounding it.

Gun issues in Chicago will remain in the national spotlight following the U.S. Supreme Court’s Sept. 30 announcement that it will hear a challenge of the city’s handgun ban, implemented in 1982 to combat urban crime.

Duncan said earlier this year that his attempts to curb violence were ineffective when he oversaw Chicago’s schools.

“I thought I had made things better in some areas,” he said April 14 in Chicago. “This is an area where I was a total failure.”


Link (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3duFSs.mpT4)

I would be interested to know how many of those shootings were gang related amoungst those school-aged children.

I also see no reason why the handgun ban should not be challanged, as it, like the DC ban has done nothing to curb firearm related crime.

[Farewell2Safety]

Chicago also has a handgun ban

[Hollis]

Long ago I listened to a Psychologist, was also anti-firearm, discussed a issue like this. He stated it is violence that must be dealt with not firearms. Banning firearms will not deal with the causes of violence and not do anything that is meaningful in securing the safety of people.

Violence has been going on, probably sense the beginning of humans. Firearms only have been around a few hundred years. The vast amount of firearms in the states are used for recreation and with a small section for self protection.

Banning firearms may make a person fell good, but it does nothing to their over all safety.

[Universal_Soldier]

I would be in favor of two parrallel gun laws for Rural and Urban America... if such a law can be enforced. much more lax law in rural as opposed to urban America.

[BK9824]

Long ago I listened to a Psychologist, was also anti-firearm, discussed a issue like this. He stated it is violence that must be dealt with not firearms. Banning firearms will not deal with the causes of violence and not do anything that is meaningful in securing the safety of people.

Violence has been going on, probably sense the beginning of humans. Firearms only have been around a few hundred years. The vast amount of firearms in the states are used for recreation and with a small section for self protection.

Banning firearms may make a person fell good, but it does nothing to their over all safety.

QFT

If I'm not mistaken there wasn't a gun used in the beating of the young man. Hence, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Education and an overall lack of parenting/morals on the part of a huge majority of our population is the root factor in situations like this.

I've met plenty of people who grew up in some cr@ppy places but have turned themselves into successful individuals. It's all about parenting...

[LineDoggie]

Gang Culture kills more than Guns ever do. As long as Kids think its ok to kill someone who wont join their gang, nothing will stop the violence. Would we ban Railroad ties because this kid was killed with them?

[LineDoggie]

QFT
Education and an overall lack of parenting/morals on the part of a huge majority of our population is the root factor in situations like this.

I've met plenty of people who grew up in some cr@ppy places but have turned themselves into successful individuals. It's all about parenting...
As My Senior Drill Sergeant used to say "I didnt fail, Your Parents failed" whole hell of a lot of truth in that. I see it every day 2 houses down.

[Yeti2424]

Clearly the most recent incident in Chigaco has shown us the need ban railroad ties before someone else dies....

[brainplay]

Obama at the time called for better enforcement of existing gun laws, tighter background checks on gun buyers and a permanent assault-weapons ban.

What do assault-weapons have to do with whats going down over there? The kid was beat to death. I'm willing to be that you could count the number of assault rifle deaths on one hand.

Why do I get the feeling that the rest mention is going to come in the form of tighter restrictions on legal buyers and more emphasis against less emphasis on beefing up penalties involving violent crimes with firearms?

Smoke and mirrors.

[XShipRider]

Kids shooting kids, beating kids too, just shows how little morality governs their lives. No respect for life.

[Geezah]

I would be in favor of two parrallel gun laws for Rural and Urban America... if such a law can be enforced. much more lax law in rural as opposed to urban America.

I would say you need to stop smoking your life away...........

Those that choose not to obey the law are a minority, and there are law a whole slew of laws on the books and it's already illegal to kill someone, let alone kill someone with a firearm.
But as it stands you currently are in favour of what they have in p.lace in Chicago and what was in place in DC, even though it did nothing to curb crime.
It's all about peoples intent......

[BorisBC]

Gang Culture kills more than Guns ever do. As long as Kids think its ok to kill someone who wont join their gang, nothing will stop the violence. Would we ban Railroad ties because this kid was killed with them?

This.

Just about every bloody gun you can think of is banned in Australia, but gun crime is on the rise. While restrictions need to be in place, when you have 85% of the kids in your school system living below the poverty line, wtf do they think is going to happen??

[budgie]

At least 47 school-age children in Chicago have been killed in homicides, mostly by guns, since the month President Barack Obama took office.

Oh well excellent case for relaxing gun control laws

[cone256]

Well of course ALL of those guns that morons used to kill the 47 kids were bought legally. How else could they have gotten guns unless they went into a gun store and bought them?

[Zarak]

Its definitely a cultural issue, rather than an issue which can be solved with gun control. Maybe the Messiah should address the inner city culture which promotes violence, drug-use, and other generalized criminal activity.

[Geezah]

Oh well excellent case for relaxing gun control laws

Why not?

Those deaths happened with gun control laws in place, which once again proves only the law abiding are affected........

[Hilbert]

At least 47 school-age children in Chicago have been killed in homicides, mostly by guns, since the month President Barack Obama took office.

"School-age children" Sounds like a quick way to get an emotional appeal with little description to me.

Anything that vaguely worded instantly brings up a host of questions. In this case, what is a school-age child? Is it a 2nd or 4th grader still in elementary schoo who was shot while walking to school or a middle or high schooler being a gang-banger and getting killed by a rival gang?

I'd like to see less emotion catchy wording and more hard information.

-Hilde

[Special-K]

I would be in favor of two parrallel gun laws for Rural and Urban America... if such a law can be enforced. much more lax law in rural as opposed to urban America.


Would you also be in favor of different free speech laws and different search and seizure laws for urban and rural America?




-K

[Roaming East]

Its definitely a cultural issue, rather than an issue which can be solved with gun control. Maybe the Messiah should address the inner city culture which promotes violence, drug-use, and other generalized criminal activity.
Yeah but that would involve things like ending this generations Prohibition and legalizing drugs so as to starve off and end the underground market for them which funds and fuels violence....something the conservative right would demonize him for.

[California Joe]

I agree that "school aged" is a carefully worded way of upping the emotional response. Which is a polite way of calling bullsh*t.

Off topic, slightly, did you guys hear about that dopey broad that made headlines a while ago for open carrying/packing heat at her 4th grade daughters soccer game? She and her husband were found shot to death in their own home with the kids in the house... murder/suicide...Kinda glad her kids team won that game...

[Universal_Soldier]

Would you also be in favor of different free speech laws and different search and seizure laws for urban and rural America?

-K
Don't make it too difficult for yourself....it's just an idea.

[cone256]

Off topic, slightly, did you guys hear about that dopey broad that made headlines a while ago for open carrying/packing heat at her 4th grade daughters soccer game? She and her husband were found shot to death in their own home with the kids in the house... murder/suicide...Kinda glad her kids team won that game...


Yup because everyone who carries a gun is crazy. Only the crazy ones make headlines. I carry a weapon everywhere, including work, and yet strangely I haven't gone on a murderous rampage. I've been to movie theaters, sporting events, malls, stores, grocery shopping, even bars, and yet...no one has died by my sidearm.

[Chulo]

Now that the Olympics thing is over, suddenly Chicago has a crime problem. And such gets about $30 Million to deal with it.


Good to see Chicago still gets paid off after the Olympic loss

[California Joe]

Yup because everyone who carries a gun is crazy. Only the crazy ones make headlines. I carry a weapon everywhere, including work, and yet strangely I haven't gone on a murderous rampage. I've been to movie theaters, sporting events, malls, stores, grocery shopping, even bars, and yet...no one has died by my sidearm.

My point was that she was one of the crazy ones. Who do whacky things like show up at a soccer game with a shooting iron strapped on. And make us gun owners look bad.

You're up here in Vermont right? I'm pretty sure if you went on a murderous rampage in the part of the state where I am, someone would surely get out the deer rifle and end you. :)

Are you deploying to A'Stan with the NG?

[brainplay]

Off topic, slightly, did you guys hear about that dopey broad that made headlines a while ago for open carrying/packing heat at her 4th grade daughters soccer game? She and her husband were found shot to death in their own home with the kids in the house... murder/suicide...Kinda glad her kids team won that game...

Everyone's waiting for the official reports to come out but its looking like an ambush murder/suicide with the husband being the shooter according to some of the LEO forums.

Ironic in that she was legally carrying the weapon and successfully sued when the sheriff revoked her permit despite not having a reason to do so. But then open carry is nuts these days and just not a socially good idea. Doesn't matter how many training classes you've been too or gun safety classes you've taught or if you're even an off duty LEO, if someone sees you carrying a gun they go into panic mode and think you'll go on a shooting rampage.

We had some dopey broad from Orlando, Fla work here for a while. She was kind of freaked out about how many people there could be around her that might be legally packing heat. The irony was great.

[Geezah]

My point was that she was one of the crazy ones. Who do whacky things like show up at a soccer game with a shooting iron strapped on. And make us gun owners look bad.

Did she tell people she was carrying?

I understand that the Guberment want to maintain their pro-victim zones(and as it is the law, I obey it), but carrying at a soccer game, why is this bad?
If it's lawful to do so, why is it an issue?

I may have overlooked something here.....


I did, I thought she was carrying concealed. Upon saying that, open carry is legal here in Ohio.

[California Joe]

I just think that brandishing weapons for no apparent reason other than "you can" is counterproductive. That's all. And it really is sad that 3 little kids are without parents.

[SBL]

Did she tell people she was carrying?

I understand that the Guberment want to maintain their pro-victim zones(and as it is the law, I obey it), but carrying at a soccer game, why is this bad?
If it's lawful to do so, why is it an issue?

I may have overlooked something here.....


I did, I thought she was carrying concealed. Upon saying that, open carry is legal here in Ohio.
"Legal" does not always equate to "advisable".

[Geezah]

"Legal" does not always equate to "advisable".

It helped push through concealed carry in Ohio.

[SBL]

It helped push through concealed carry in Ohio.
So what ?

[cone256]

My point was that she was one of the crazy ones. Who do whacky things like show up at a soccer game with a shooting iron strapped on. And make us gun owners look bad.

You're up here in Vermont right? I'm pretty sure if you went on a murderous rampage in the part of the state where I am, someone would surely get out the deer rifle and end you. :)

Are you deploying to A'Stan with the NG?

As long as your rifle isn't loaded in you're truck haha

I'm not part of the 86th IBCT (Mountain) but will most likely be deploying because of some schools I've attended

[California Joe]

Good luck to you.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

QFT

If I'm not mistaken there wasn't a gun used in the beating of the young man. Hence, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Education and an overall lack of parenting/morals on the part of a huge majority of our population is the root factor in situations like this.

I've met plenty of people who grew up in some cr@ppy places but have turned themselves into successful individuals. It's all about parenting...

Before the advent of firearms there wasn't even a police force to speak of. A few soldiers guarding some important people but that was about it.

Just saying.

[Geezah]

So what ?

It's legal in Ohio and people doing it helped Concealed Carry pass as law.

But if you don't care then why even comment..............

[BorisBC]

Everyone's waiting for the official reports to come out but its looking like an ambush murder/suicide with the husband being the shooter according to some of the LEO forums.


So was she carrying at the time? It's cruelly ironic if she was. I've had this argument with my wife - her arguement was you've got to be some kind of ninja to get a gun out and ready before something happens. And I'd suggest that more often than not it can raise the stakes in a situation. It's one of those arguments that goes round and round.

Makes me kinda glad I live in Oz, where we don't have much in the way of guns, and just hit the bad guys with a cricket bat.

[SBL]

It's legal in Ohio and people doing it helped Concealed Carry pass as law.

But if you don't care then why even comment..............
Like I said, it doesn't make it a good idea.

[cone256]

Good luck to you.


Thank you.

[brainplay]

So was she carrying at the time? It's cruelly ironic if she was.

No clue if she was carrying since she was in her own house at the time. This could have been an ambush, surprise, or escalating conflict. All we know so far is that the kids ran out of the house screaming "Daddy shot mommy". If I can find the article I'll post it.


I've had this argument with my wife - her arguement was you've got to be some kind of ninja to get a gun out and ready before something happens. And I'd suggest that more often than not it can raise the stakes in a situation. It's one of those arguments that goes round and round.

Makes me kinda glad I live in Oz, where we don't have much in the way of guns, and just hit the bad guys with a cricket bat.

No you don't have to be a ninja. But you do need to get some basic instruction on how to deploy it. Weak arm out, body twist, and you're already in a position to fire from the hip at a point blank target (because distance closes fast) while keeping it away from disarming hands. Its a gun not a hood ornament. Sadly there are too many that miss that point. You use it to lay some extreme violence on someone before they do that to you. Its not a toy that will automatically make the bad guys fall down if you can't aim worth a damn.

You've got a cricket bat. Jolly good. So what happens if the bad guys have cricket bats, or metal pipes, or knives and enter your house or stop you on the street with intent to use them? Same problem. Someone is going to have a cracked skull, usually the person that was unprepared.

Violence against the innocent is a culture. Be happy yours is fairly docile. p-)

[Geezah]

So was she carrying at the time? It's cruelly ironic if she was. I've had this argument with my wife - her arguement was you've got to be some kind of ninja to get a gun out and ready before something happens. And I'd suggest that more often than not it can raise the stakes in a situation. It's one of those arguments that goes round and round.

If it was a domestic situation then it sucks all round as she probably didn't stand a chance as the husband knew her routine.

Upon saying that, a group of us at our club went through a tactical pistol course back in the Summer with the firearms trainer and guy in charge of SWAT for the biggest LE department in our area along with a Fire Marshall.
I found that I can go from a holstered position, hands up by my ears to draw and rnds on target in 1.22seconds. While this is not realistic as there will not be many gunfights at the OK coral any time soon, it still helps as my pistols are always concealed and on that front the element of surprise would be on my side.



Makes me kinda glad I live in Oz, where we don't have much in the way of guns, and just hit the bad guys with a cricket bat.

I used to think that way about the UK, until I realized the bad guys can still get them even if the Law Abiding can't.

[SilentType]

I would be in favor of two parrallel gun laws for Rural and Urban America... if such a law can be enforced. much more lax law in rural as opposed to urban America.

Have to get rid of the 14th AMendment if you're going to extend Constitutional liberty to people living in one area and deny it those living in another.

That would be a dangerous road to travel down.

[SilentType]

I agree that "school aged" is a carefully worded way of upping the emotional response. Which is a polite way of calling bullsh*t.

Off topic, slightly, did you guys hear about that dopey broad that made headlines a while ago for open carrying/packing heat at her 4th grade daughters soccer game? She and her husband were found shot to death in their own home with the kids in the house... murder/suicide...Kinda glad her kids team won that game...

So her husband wouldn't have killed her if she didn't have a concealed carry license?

[California Joe]

So her husband wouldn't have killed her if she didn't have a concealed carry license?

No, my point was that I thought she seemed a little high strung by her actions of "open" carrying to a kids soccer game and that sometimes even legal gun owners snap and get involved in f*cked up murder suicide situations. You're no daisy, you're no daisy at all....

[welshmann]

Its definitely a cultural issue, rather than an issue which can be solved with gun control. Maybe the Messiah should address the inner city culture which promotes violence, drug-use, and other generalized criminal activity.

well said,apart from the messiah part :P