Most thought that 6 arabs had attacked a young mother....

[fantassin]

On Friday the 9th of July in the morning, 6 arab men (age 15 to 20) armed with knives have attacked a young mother of 23 and her 13 months old in a Paris suburban train because "they thought she was a Jew".

She wasn't (not that it changes anything to that revolting act).

She was mugged, her clothing torn to strips, her hair cut and they painted 3 swastikas on her belly with a felt tip marker in the manner used by some French civilians against women who had slept with German soldiers at the end of WW2.

Interestingly, for once, the AFP has stated that the aggressors were all arabs; normally they just say "young men".

[Commander Cool]

Link please!

[fantassin]

It's on the AFP website but only in the French section.

Here it is in French:

ls agressent une femme et lui dessinent des croix gammées sur le ventre (10/07/2004)

VERSAILLES (AFP)

Six hommes ont violemment agressé, vendredi matin dans le RER D, entre Louvres et Sarcelles (Val-d'Oise), une jeune femme de 23 ans qu'ils croyaient juive, avant de lui dessiner des croix gammées sur le ventre, a-t-on appris samedi de sources policières.

Le ministre de l'Intérieur, Dominique de Villepin, a condamné "avec la plus grande fermeté" cette agression "ignoble". Le Ministre a précisé qu'il a "donné instructions aux services de police pour retrouver les auteurs dans les plus brefs délais" de cette agression "qui a été aggravée de gestes racistes et antisémites".

Les six agresseurs, d'origine maghrébine et armés de couteaux, ont coupé les cheveux de la jeune femme, accompagnée de son bébé de 13 mois, puis ont lacéré son tee-shirt et son pantalon, avant de dessiner au feutre noir trois croix gammées sur son ventre.



Les six jeunes hommes, qui étaient montés dans le train à la gare de Louvres, avaient commencé par bousculer la jeune mère, puis lui avaient dérobé son sac à dos, qui contenait ses papiers d'identité.



C'est en voyant qu'elle avait une adresse dans le XVIe arrondissement de Paris - où elle n'habite plus - qu'ils auraient déduit qu'elle était juive, ce qui n'est pas le cas, a-t-on précisé de sources policières.

"Dans le XVIe il y a que des juifs", avait alors lâché un des six hommes, avant que le groupe ne commence à agresser la jeune femme, a-t-on précisé de mêmes sources.

Les agresseurs avaient ensuite pris la fuite en renversant la poussette, faisant tomber le bébé à terre, et en emportant le sac de la victime qui contenait, outre ses papiers d'identité, sa carte bancaire et une somme de 200 euros.

La police judiciaire de Versailles (Yvelines) a été saisie de l'affaire.




© AFP

[ZeroPositive]

that is horrible totally disgraceful of those kids....

[Zarathustra]

Link please!


I cannot find this information in english on the internet, sorry. :| ..
anyway what a gang of bastards ! :-*$ :fork:

[radon]

Strange , when they go into some foreign country they should behave like they should. Same applies especially to those who are born in that place. Those who raise theyr kids should raise them to respect the place they have moved in :bash:

[DPGLAW]

I hate to say this because it's ****ed up, but I don;t think this is such a bad thing- she was french and all, that makes it ok....just ki9dding about that part...lol

But seriously, if the french start to become a target of the terrorists than mabye they will stop being such pussies and hampering out fight and join it insted....

[obd]

Yes, hate crimes exist everywhere.....its very sad....Im sure the poor mother and child are traumatized for life by what happened.......

I remmember in my town about 6 months after 9/11 a local gas station owner who was from India was assaulted and had his gas station nearly destroyed by a bunch of white neo-Nazi kids because they thought he was an arab.......turns out he was Indian.......and luckily the idiots were caught and put in jail for what they did and the mans buisness was able to be reparied and he is still there and is as nice as ever.......I make a point to always get gas from him when I can.....he's always friendly and he has these really cool Indian candies he gives out that taste interesting......(no they arnt loading with anything!!!!)

[gilgoul]

Merci fantassin,

Maybe time has come to try the Leclerc in Urban combat, in Sarcelles and St Denis.

[Zarathustra]

Merci fantassin,

Maybe time has come to try the Leclerc in Urban combat, in Sarcelles and St Denis.


hey, you know very well the suburbs of Paris... ;)

[American Patriot]

Right after 9/11 a specimen of drunk trailer trash shot to death an Arab-looking convenience store owner in my city. He got the death penalty I believe. Same thing should happen to these jokers.

[obd]

Oh yeah and DPGlaw, where I live there is a very large French American community.....They are generally very nice people but they all tend to stick together in one group of freinds.....One day I was shocked to overhear them talking about Jews and Israel and they were saying things like "I wish we had killed them all in 1938" and "there go those damn Jews causing trouble again".......(referring to the Israeli Palestinian problem)

I got into a debate with them and they basically argued that "well the Jews had taken over Germany and Hitler was only trying to take back his country for his own people because the Jews took all the money from Germany.....Htiler didnt rob them...he just took back what was German money"...... (this is known as zenophobic anti-semetism)

Needless to say I was shocked.....Sure these nice group of ladies hated Htiler but not for his genocide of the Jews but because he invaded France........

It was a stark reminder that Europe is still a very backward place in some respects and is still full of irrational hatreds that go back hundreds of years.....

These ladies were the nicest people and I had spoken with them many times before and they were articulate and well read etc....but a soon as they began discussing Jews it turned into talk of "killing all the Jews".....Im still shocked about it as I type this....How could educated modern and articulate people be so full of irrational hatred and have such a huge misconception of history....I mean they practically were ready to deny the holocaust...One even claimed that only a few hundred thousand had been killed and that was an accident!!! JEEZUZ CHRIST!!!! It made me think: for all our modern gadgets and toys "humanity" has not really advanced much in the way of thought since 1900.....we are still VERY capable of genocide and violence on a mass scale and much old hatred exists...........cant we all just get along???

[anonymous individual]

European ideology is difficult to understand.

[seruriermarshal]

It's really sick ! where are French police ?

[szr]

That's some lame ****. :|

[Deuterium]

All I can say is that the French better not do anything against these "alleged" perpetrators until they get UN approval or they should be labeled terrorists.

[Moledet]

That's ain't news, it happens all the time.

[Fargin]

European ideology is difficult to understand.
It's a two way street p-)

[Zarathustra]

European ideology is difficult to understand.
It's a two way street p-)


rofl rofl rofl ;)

[duck]

Not my usual reading but here they are right on target. From the right-wing City Magazine.

"The Barbarians at the Gates of Paris
Theodore Dalrymple
Everyone knows la douce France: the France of wonderful food and wine, beautiful landscapes, splendid châteaux and cathedrals. More tourists (60 million a year) visit France than any country in the world by far. Indeed, the Germans have a saying, not altogether reassuring for the French: “to live as God in France.” Half a million Britons have bought second homes there; many of them bore their friends back home with how they order these things better in France.

But there is another growing, and much less reassuring, side to France. I go to Paris about four times a year and thus have a sense of the evolving preoccupations of the French middle classes. A few years ago it was schools: the much vaunted French educational system was falling apart; illiteracy was rising; children were leaving school as ignorant as they entered, and much worse-behaved. For the last couple of years, though, it has been crime: l’insécurité, les violences urbaines, les incivilités. Everyone has a tale to tell, and no dinner party is complete without a horrifying story. Every crime, one senses, means a vote for Le Pen or whoever replaces him.

I first saw l’insécurité for myself about eight months ago. It was just off the Boulevard Saint-Germain, in a neighborhood where a tolerably spacious apartment would cost $1 million. Three youths—Rumanians—were attempting quite openly to break into a parking meter with large screwdrivers to steal the coins. It was four o’clock in the afternoon; the sidewalks were crowded, and the nearby cafés were full. The youths behaved as if they were simply pursuing a normal and legitimate activity, with nothing to fear.

Eventually, two women in their sixties told them to stop. The youths, laughing until then, turned murderously angry, insulted the women, and brandished their screwdrivers. The women retreated, and the youths resumed their “work.”

A man of about 70 then told them to stop. They berated him still more threateningly, one of them holding a screwdriver as if to stab him in the stomach. I moved forward to help the man, but the youths, still shouting abuse and genuinely outraged at being interrupted in the pursuit of their livelihood, decided to run off. But it all could have ended very differently.

Several things struck me about the incident: the youths’ sense of invulnerability in broad daylight; the indifference to their behavior of large numbers of people who would never dream of behaving in the same way; that only the elderly tried to do anything about the situation, though physically least suited to do so. Could it be that only they had a view of right and wrong clear enough to wish to intervene? That everyone younger than they thought something like: “Refugees . . . hard life . . . very poor . . . too young to know right from wrong and anyway never taught . . . no choice for them . . . punishment cruel and useless”? The real criminals, indeed, were the drivers whose coins filled the parking meters: were they not polluting the world with their cars?
Another motive for inaction was that, had the youths been arrested, nothing would have happened to them. They would have been back on the streets within the hour. Who would risk a screwdriver in the liver to safeguard the parking meters of Paris for an hour?

The laxisme of the French criminal justice system is now notorious. Judges often make remarks indicating their sympathy for the criminals they are trying (based upon the usual generalizations about how society, not the criminal, is to blame); and the day before I witnessed the scene on the Boulevard Saint-Germain, 8,000 police had marched to protest the release from prison on bail of an infamous career armed robber and suspected murderer before his trial for yet another armed robbery, in the course of which he shot someone in the head. Out on bail before this trial, he then burgled a house. Surprised by the police, he and his accomplices shot two of them dead and seriously wounded a third. He was also under strong suspicion of having committed a quadruple murder a few days previously, in which a couple who owned a restaurant, and two of their employees, were shot dead in front of the owners’ nine-year-old daughter.

The left-leaning Libération, one of the two daily newspapers the French intelligentsia reads, dismissed the marchers, referring with disdainful sarcaèm to la fièvre flicardiaire—cop fever. The paper would no doubt have regarded the murder of a single journalist—that is to say, of a full human being—differently, let alone the murder of two journalists or six; and of course no one in the newspaper acknowledged that an effective police force is as vital a guarantee of personal freedom as a free press, and that the thin blue line that separates man from brutality is exactly that: thin. This is not a decent thing for an intellectual to say, however true it might be.
It is the private complaint of everyone, however, that the police have become impotent to suppress and detect crime. Horror stories abound. A Parisian acquaintance told me how one recent evening he had seen two criminals attack a car in which a woman was waiting for her husband. They smashed her side window and tried to grab her purse, but she resisted. My acquaintance went to her aid and managed to pin down one of the assailants, the other running off. Fortunately, some police passed by, but to my acquaintance’s dismay let the assailant go, giving him only a warning.

[duck]

My acquaintance said to the police that he would make a complaint. The senior among them advised him against wasting his time. At that time of night, there would be no one to complain to in the local commissariat. He would have to go the following day and would have to wait on line for three hours. He would have to return several times, with a long wait each time. And in the end, nothing would be done.

As for the police, he added, they did not want to make an arrest in a case like this. There would be too much paperwork. And even if the case came to court, the judge would give no proper punishment. Moreover, such an arrest would retard their careers. The local police chiefs were paid by results—by the crime rates in their areas of jurisdiction. The last thing they wanted was for policemen to go around finding and recording crime.

Not long afterward, I heard of another case in which the police simply refused to record the occurrence of a burglary, much less try to catch the culprits.

Now crime and general disorder are making inroads into places where, not long ago, they were unheard of. At a peaceful and prosperous village near Fontainebleau that I visited—the home of retired high officials and of a former cabinet minister—criminality had made its first appearance only two weeks before. There had been a burglary and a “rodeo”—an impromptu race of youths in stolen cars around the village green, whose fence the car thieves had knocked over to gain access.

A villager called the police, who said they could not come at the moment, but who politely called back half an hour later to find out how things were going. Two hours later still, they finally appeared, but the rodeo had moved on, leaving behind only the remains of a burned-out car. The blackened patch on the road was still visible when I visited.

The official figures for this upsurge, doctored as they no doubt are, are sufficiently alarming. Reported crime in France has risen from 600,000 annually in 1959 to 4 million today, while the population has grown by less than 20 percent (and many think today’s crime number is an underestimate by at least a half). In 2000, one crime was reported for every sixth inhabitant of Paris, and the rate has increased by at least 10 percent a year for the last five years. Reported cases of arson in France have increased 2,500 percent in seven years, from 1,168 in 1993 to 29,192 in 2000; robbery with violence rose by 15.8 percent between 1999 and 2000, and 44.5 percent since 1996 (itself no golden age).

Where does the increase in crime come from? The geographical answer: from the public housing projects that encircle and increasingly besiege every French city or town of any size, Paris especially. In these housing projects lives an immigrant population numbering several million, from North and West Africa mostly, along with their French-born descendants and a smattering of the least successful members of the French working class. From these projects, the excellence of the French public transport system ensures that the most fashionable arrondissements are within easy reach of the most inveterate thief and vandal.

Architecturally, the housing projects sprang from the ideas of Le Corbusier, the Swiss totalitarian architect—and still the untouchable hero of architectural education in France—who believed that a house was a machine for living in, that areas of cities should be entirely separated from one another by their function, and that the straight line and the right angle held the key to wisdom, virtue, beauty, and efficiency. The mulish opposition that met his scheme to pull down the whole of the center of Paris and rebuild it according to his “rational” and “advanced” ideas baffled and frustrated him.

The inhuman, unadorned, hard-edged geometry of these vast housing projects in their unearthly plazas brings to mind Le Corbusier’s chilling and tyrannical words: “The despot is not a man. It is the . . . correct, realistic, exact plan . . . that will provide your solution once the problem has been posed clearly. . . . This plan has been drawn up well away from . . . the cries of the electorate or the laments of society’s victims. It has been drawn up by serene and lucid minds.”

But what is the problem to which these housing projects, known as cités, are the solution, conceived by serene and lucid minds like Le Corbusier’s? It is the problem of providing an Habitation de Loyer Modéré—a House at Moderate Rent, shortened to HLM—for the workers, largely immigrant, whom the factories needed during France’s great industrial expansion from the 1950s to the 1970s, when the unemployment rate was 2 percent and cheap labor was much in demand. By the late eighties, however, the demand had evaporated, but the people whose labor had satisfied it had not; and together with their descendants and a constant influx of new hopefuls, they made the provision of cheap housing more necessary than ever.

[duck]

An apartment in this publicly owned housing is also known as a logement, a lodging, which aptly conveys the social status and degree of political influence of those expected to rent them. The cités are thus social marginalization made concrete: bureaucratically planned from their windows to their roofs, with no history of their own or organic connection to anything that previously existed on their sites, they convey the impression that, in the event of serious trouble, they could be cut off from the rest of the world by switching off the trains and by blockading with a tank or two the highways that pass through them, (usually with a concrete wall on either side), from the rest of France to the better parts of Paris. I recalled the words of an Afrikaner in South Africa, who explained to me the principle according to which only a single road connected black townships to the white cities: once it was sealed off by an armored car, “the blacks can foul only their own nest.”
The average visitor gives not a moment’s thought to these Cités of Darkness as he speeds from the airport to the City of Light. But they are huge and important—and what the visitor would find there, if he bothered to go, would terrify him.

A kind of anti-society has grown up in them—a population that derives the meaning of its life from the hatred it bears for the other, “official,” society in France. This alienation, this gulf of mistrust—greater than any I have encountered anywhere else in the world, including in the black townships of South Africa during the apartheid years—is written on the faces of the young men, most of them permanently unemployed, who hang out in the pocked and potholed open spaces between their logements. When you approach to speak to them, their immobile faces betray not a flicker of recognition of your shared humanity; they make no gesture to smooth social intercourse. If you are not one of them, you are against them.

Their hatred of official France manifests itself in many ways that scar everything around them. Young men risk life and limb to adorn the most inaccessible surfaces of concrete with graffiti—BAISE LA POLICE, **** the police, being the favorite theme. The iconography of the cités is that of uncompromising hatred and aggression: a burned-out and destroyed community-meeting place in the Les Tarterets project, for example, has a picture of a science-fiction humanoid, his fist clenched as if to spring at the person who looks at him, while to his right is an admiring portrait of a huge slavering pit bull, a dog by temperament and training capable of tearing out a man’s throat—the only breed of dog I saw in the cités, paraded with menacing swagger by their owners.

There are burned-out and eviscerated carcasses of cars everywhere. Fire is now fashionable in the cités: in Les Tarterets, residents had torched and looted every store—with the exceptions of one government-subsidized supermarket and a pharmacy. The underground parking lot, charred and blackened by smoke like a vault in an urban hell, is permanently closed.

When agents of official France come to the cités, the residents attack them. The police are hated: one young Malian, who comfortingly believed that he was unemployable in France because of the color of his skin, described how the police invariably arrived like a raiding party, with batons swinging—ready to beat whoever came within reach, irrespective of who he was or of his innocence of any crime, before retreating to safety to their commissariat. The conduct of the police, he said, explained why residents threw Molotov cocktails at them from their windows. Who could tolerate such treatment at the hands of une police fasciste?

Molotov cocktails also greeted the president of the republic, Jacques Chirac, and his interior minister when they recently campaigned at two cités, Les Tarterets and Les Musiciens. The two dignitaries had to beat a swift and ignominious retreat, like foreign overlords visiting a barely held and hostile suzerainty: they came, they saw, they scuttled off.
Antagonism toward the police might appear understandable, but the conduct of the young inhabitants of the cités toward the firemen who come to rescue them from the fires that they have themselves started gives a dismaying glimpse into the depth of their hatred for mainstream society. They greet the admirable firemen (whose motto is Sauver ou périr, save or perish) with Molotov cocktails and hails of stones when they arrive on their mission of mercy, so that armored vehicles frequently have to protect the fire engines.

Benevolence inflames the anger of the young men of the cités as much as repression, because their rage is inseparable from their being. Ambulance men who take away a young man injured in an incident routinely find themselves surrounded by the man’s “friends,” and jostled, jeered at, and threatened: behavior that, according to one doctor I met, continues right into the hospital, even as the friends demand that their associate should be treated at once, before others.

Of course, they also expect him to be treated as well as anyone else, and in this expectation they reveal the bad faith, or at least ambivalence, of their stance toward the society around them. They are certainly not poor, at least by the standards of all previously existing societies: they are not hungry; they have cell phones, cars, and many other appurtenances of modernity; they are dressed fashionably—according to their own fashion—with a uniform disdain of bourgeois propriety and with gold chains round their necks. They believe they have rights, and they know they will receive medical treatment, however they behave. They enjoy a far higher standard of living (or consumption) than they would in the countries of their parents’ or grandparents’ origin, even if they labored there 14 hours a day to the maximum of their capacity.

But this is not a cause of gratitude—on the contrary: they feel it as an insult or a wound, even as they take it for granted as their due. But like all human beings, they want the respect and approval of others, even—or rather especially—of the people who carelessly toss them the crumbs of Western prosperity. Emasculating dependence is never a happy state, and no dependence is more absolute, more total, than that of most of the inhabitants of the cités. They therefore come to believe in the malevolence of those who maintain them in their limbo: and they want to keep alive the belief in this perfect malevolence, for it gives meaning—the only possible meaning—to their stunted lives. It is better to be opposed by an enemy than to be adrift in meaninglessness, for the simulacrum of an enemy lends purpose to actions whose nihilism would otherwise be self-evident.

That is one of the reasons that, when I approached groups of young men in Les Musiciens, many of them were not just suspicious (though it was soon clear to them that I was no member of the enemy), but hostile. When a young man of African origin agreed to speak to me, his fellows kept interrupting menacingly. “Don’t talk to him,” they commanded, and they told me, with fear in their eyes, to go away. The young man was nervous, too: he said he was afraid of being punished as a traitor. His associates feared that “normal” contact with a person who was clearly not of the enemy, and yet not one of them either, would contaminate their minds and eventually break down the them-and-us worldview that stood between them and complete mental chaos. They needed to see themselves as warriors in a civil war, not mere ne’er-do-wells and criminals.

[duck]

The ambivalence of the cité dwellers matches “official” France’s attitude toward them: over-control and interference, alternating with utter abandonment. Bureaucrats have planned every item in the physical environment, for example, and no matter how many times the inhabitants foul the nest (to use the Afrikaner’s expression), the state pays for renovation, hoping thereby to demonstrate its compassion and concern. To assure the immigrants that they and their offspring are potentially or already truly French, the streets are named for French cultural heroes: for painters in Les Tarterets (rue Gustave Courbet, for example) and for composers in Les Musiciens (rue Gabriel Fauré). Indeed, the only time I smiled in one of the cités was when I walked past two concrete bunkers with metal windows, the école maternelle Charles Baudelaire and the école maternelle Arthur Rimbaud. Fine as these two poets are, theirs are not names one would associate with kindergartens, let alone with concrete bunkers.
But the heroic French names point to a deeper official ambivalence. The French state is torn between two approaches: Courbet, Fauré, nos ancêtres, les gaullois, on the one hand, and the shibboleths of multiculturalism on the other. By compulsion of the ministry of education, the historiography that the schools purvey is that of the triumph of the unifying, rational, and benevolent French state through the ages, from Colbert onward, and Muslim girls are not allowed to wear headscarves in schools. After graduation, people who dress in “ethnic” fashion will not find jobs with major employers. But at the same time, official France also pays a cowering lip service to multiculturalism—for example, to the “culture” of the cités. Thus, French rap music is the subject of admiring articles in Libération and Le Monde, as well as of pusillanimous expressions of approval from the last two ministers of culture.

One rap group, the Ministère amer (Bitter Ministry), won special official praise. Its best-known lyric: “Another woman takes her beating./ This time she’s called Brigitte./ She’s the wife of a cop./ The novices of vice piss on the police./ It’s not just a firework, scratch the clitoris./ Brigitte the cop’s wife likes ******s./ She’s hot, hot in her pants.” This vile rubbish receives accolades for its supposed authenticity: for in the multiculturalist’s mental world, in which the savages are forever noble, there is no criterion by which to distinguish high art from low trash. And if intellectuals, highly trained in the Western tradition, are prepared to praise such degraded and brutal ****ography, it is hardly surprising that those who are not so trained come to the conclusion that there cannot be anything of value in that tradition. Cowardly multiculturalism thus makes itself the handmaiden of anti-Western extremism.
Whether or not rap lyrics are the authentic voice of the cités, they are certainly its authentic ear: you can observe many young men in the cités sitting around in their cars aimlessly, listening to it for hours on end, so loud that the pavement vibrates to it 100 yards away. The imprimatur of the intellectuals and of the French cultural bureaucracy no doubt encourages them to believe that they are doing something worthwhile. But when life begins to imitate art, and terrible gang-rapes occur with increasing frequency, the same official France becomes puzzled and alarmed. What should it make of the 18 young men and two young women currently being tried in Pontoise for allegedly abducting a girl of 15 and for four months raping her repeatedly in basements, stairwells, and squats? Many of the group seem not merely unrepentant or unashamed but proud.

Though most people in France have never visited a cité, they dimly know that long-term unemployment among the young is so rife there that it is the normal state of being. Indeed, French youth unemployment is among the highest in Europe—and higher the further you descend the social scale, largely because high minimum wages, payroll taxes, and labor protection laws make employers loath to hire those whom they cannot easily fire, and whom they must pay beyond what their skills are worth.

Everyone acknowledges that unemployment, particularly of the permanent kind, is deeply destructive, and that the devil really does find work for idle hands; but the higher up the social scale you ascend, the more firmly fixed is the idea that the labor-market rigidities that encourage unemployment are essential both to distinguish France from the supposed savagery of the Anglo-Saxon neo-liberal model (one soon learns from reading the French newspapers what anglo-saxon connotes in this context), and to protect the downtrodden from exploitation. But the labor-market rigidities protect those who least need protection, while condemning the most vulnerable to utter hopelessness: and if ****** hypocrisy is the vice of the Anglo-Saxons, economic hypocrisy is the vice of the French.

It requires little imagination to see how, in the circumstances, the burden of unemployment should fall disproportionately on immigrants and their children: and why, already culturally distinct from the bulk of the population, they should feel themselves vilely discriminated against. Having been enclosed in a physical ghetto, they respond by building a cultural and psychological ghetto for themselves. They are of France, but not French.

The state, while concerning itself with the details of their housing, their education, their medical care, and the payment of subsidies for them to do nothing, abrogates its responsibility completely in the one area in which the state’s responsibility is absolutely inalienable: law and order. In order to placate, or at least not to inflame, disaffected youth, the ministry of the interior has instructed the police to tread softly (that is to say, virtually not at all, except by occasional raiding parties when inaction is impossible) in the more than 800 zones sensibles—sensitive areas—that surround French cities and that are known collectively as la Zone.

But human society, like nature, abhors a vacuum, and so authority of a kind, with its own set of values, occupies the space where law and order should be—the authority and brutal values of psychopathic criminals and drug dealers. The absence of a real economy and of law means, in practice, an economy and an informal legal system based on theft and drug-trafficking. In Les Tarterets, for example, I observed two dealers openly distributing drugs and collecting money while driving around in their highly conspicuous BMW convertible, clearly the monarchs of all they surveyed. Both of northwest African descent, one wore a scarlet baseball cap backward, while the other had dyed blond hair, contrasting dramatically with his complexion. Their faces were as immobile as those of potentates receiving tribute from conquered tribes. They drove everywhere at maximum speed in low gear and high noise: they could hardly have drawn more attention to themselves if they tried. They didn’t fear the law: rather, the law feared them.
I watched their proceedings in the company of old immigrants from Algeria and Morocco, who had come to France in the early 1960s. They too lived in Les Tarterets and had witnessed its descent into a state of low-level insurgency. They were so horrified by daily life that they were trying to leave, to escape their own children and grandchildren: but once having fallen into the clutches of the system of public housing, they were trapped. They wanted to transfer to a cité, if such existed, where the new generation did not rule: but they were without leverage—or piston—in the giant system of patronage that is the French state. And so they had to stay put, puzzled, alarmed, incredulous, and bitter at what their own offspring had become, so very different from what they had hoped and expected. They were better Frenchmen than either their children or grandchildren: they would never have whistled and booed at the Marseillaise, as their descendants did before the soccer match between France and Algeria in 2001, alerting the rest of France to the terrible canker in its midst.

Whether France was wise to have permitted the mass immigration of people culturally very different from its own population to solve a temporary labor shortage and to assuage its own abstract liberal conscience is disputable: there are now an estimated 8 or 9 million people of North and West African origin in France, twice the number in 1975—and at least 5 million of them are Muslims. Demographic projections (though projections are not predictions) suggest that their descendants will number 35 million before this century is out, more than a third of the likely total population of France.

Indisputably, however, France has handled the resultant situation in the worst possible way. Unless it assimilates these millions successfully, its future will be grim. But it has separated and isolated immigrants and their descendants geographically into dehumanizing ghettos; it has pursued economic policies to promote unemployment and create dependence among them, with all the inevitable psychological consequences; it has flattered the repellent and worthless culture that they have developed; and it has withdrawn the protection of the law from them, allowing them to create their own lawless order.

No one should underestimate the danger that this failure poses, not only for France but also for the world. The inhabitants of the cités are exceptionally well armed. When the professional robbers among them raid a bank or an armored car delivering cash, they do so with bazookas and rocket launchers, and dress in paramilitary uniforms. From time to time, the police discover whole arsenals of Kalashnikovs in the cités. There is a vigorous informal trade between France and post-communist Eastern Europe: workshops in underground garages in the cités change the serial numbers of stolen luxury cars prior to export to the East, in exchange for sophisticated weaponry.

A profoundly alienated population is thus armed with serious firepower; and in conditions of violent social upheaval, such as France is in the habit of experiencing every few decades, it could prove difficult to control. The French state is caught in a dilemma between honoring its commitments to the more privileged section of the population, many of whom earn their livelihoods from administering the dirigiste economy, and freeing the labor market sufficiently to give the hope of a normal life to the inhabitants of the cités. Most likely, the state will solve the dilemma by attempts to buy off the disaffected with more benefits and rights, at the cost of higher taxes that will further stifle the job creation that would most help the cité dwellers. If that fails, as in the long run it will, harsh repression will follow.

But among the third of the population of the cités that is of North African Muslim descent, there is an option that the French, and not only the French, fear. For imagine yourself a youth in Les Tarterets or Les Musiciens, intellectually alert but not well educated, believing yourself to be despised because of your origins by the larger society that you were born into, permanently condemned to unemployment by the system that contemptuously feeds and clothes you, and surrounded by a contemptible nihilistic culture of despair, violence, and crime. Is it not possible that you would seek a doctrine that would simultaneously explain your predicament, justify your wrath, point the way toward your revenge, and guarantee your salvation, especially if you were imprisoned? Would you not seek a “worthwhile” direction for the energy, hatred, and violence seething within you, a direction that would enable you to do evil in the name of ultimate good? It would require only a relatively few of like mind to cause havoc. Islamist proselytism flourishes in the prisons of France (where 60 percent of the inmates are of immigrant origin), as it does in British prisons; and it takes only a handful of Zacharias Moussaouis to start a conflagration.

The French knew of this possibility well before September 11: in 1994, their special forces boarded a hijacked aircraft that landed in Marseilles and killed the hijackers—an unusual step for the French, who have traditionally preferred to negotiate with, or give in to, terrorists. But they had intelligence suggesting that, after refueling, the hijackers planned to fly the plane into the Eiffel Tower. In this case, no negotiation was possible.

A terrible chasm has opened up in French society, dramatically exemplified by a story that an acquaintance told me. He was driving along a six-lane highway with housing projects on both sides, when a man tried to dash across the road. My acquaintance hit him at high speed and killed him instantly.

According to French law, the participants in a fatal accident must stay as near as possible to the scene, until officials have elucidated all the circumstances. The police therefore took my informant to a kind of hotel nearby, where there was no staff, and the door could be opened only by inserting a credit card into an automatic billing terminal. Reaching his room, he discovered that all the furniture was of concrete, including the bed and washbasin, and attached either to the floor or walls.

The following morning, the police came to collect him, and he asked them what kind of place this was. Why was everything made of concrete?

“But don’t you know where you are, monsieur?” they asked. “C’est la Zone, c’est la Zone.”

La Zone is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

Uh, I admit it's a bit extreme in some points, but at least very un-PC.

[oliv]

@Gilgoul


ata medaber be tsarfatit ? ve ata makir Sarcelles ?

ani yeoudi mitsarfat :)

@Fantassin

je viens de lire cette nouvelle !!!
c'est horrible, et encore Chirac qui nous fait de beaux discours !!! :(

[Midav]

Bastards. For this act, the thugs should be forced to eat pig intestines.

[gilgoul]

Merci fantassin,

Maybe time has come to try the Leclerc in Urban combat, in Sarcelles and St Denis.


hey, you know very well the suburbs of Paris... ;)

Was born and grew up in Paris 19eme, belleville pyrenee

[Zarathustra]

Merci fantassin,

Maybe time has come to try the Leclerc in Urban combat, in Sarcelles and St Denis.


hey, you know very well the suburbs of Paris... ;)

Was born and grew up in Paris 19eme, belleville pyrenee


D'accord, merci pour cette précision. En éspèrant que tu parles français ! :)

[Rannyoby]

I hate to say this because it's f*** up, but I don;t think this is such a bad thing- she was french and all, that makes it ok....just ki9dding about that part...lol

But seriously, if the french start to become a target of the terrorists than mabye they will stop being such pussies and hampering out fight and join it insted....

Can I applause ?
Well, i don't really want to and i'd prefer stoning you but well ...

We're talking about a bunch of thugs there, not Al Qaeda planning to blow the Eiffel Tower.


Now on the topic of French police forces ... well, from my own personnal experience, they shouldn't be the ones to be allways blamed as they're just human beings ****e to make errors, but the problem is when the media and even the judicial system stamps all the policemen has being thick-skulled illiterate violent alcoholics whose main past-time activity is to drink Pastis while on duty and hitting youngsters with phonebooks while interrogating them.
During my time in the police, I've met some fantastic people (and as in every other category of human beings, a certain amount of assholes). The job is hard, stressful and dangerous these days when armed thugs get ridiculously short prison penalties when caught and when these very same bastards shout for police brutality and abuses when ever they see a police uniform or smell the plastic of the police card-holder within a 10 meters radius around them.
If it was just up to me I'd raid the "hotspots" with whole CRS and Gendarmerie Mobile just for the hell of ****ing some good sens into these arrogant little crackheads with our truncheons and Flashballs, but this is politically and logistically unfeasible (andit would be wrong to reduce the ****load of problems as just that, the HLM cities).

My former colleagues received a small light of hope when Sarkozy became the Interior Minister, but this light quickly went off as this guy is not any better than any of the ones we've seen until now.

Duck's posting even if it's sometimes a bit harsh, is not far from the thruth.

[SwissGrenadier]

asocial scum!!!

vous avez deja etes a strasbourg? c'est presque pire que a paris! :|
have you ever been to strasbourg? it's almost worse than in paris!
pardon my mediocre french

[gilgoul]

Duck, I grew up in one of those neighbourhood, though way less dangerous since in Paris "intra muros", and if I share your shock and repulsion to a lot of elements of this "cite "culture, i`d like to close a few points.
Immigrants from eastern europe, far east, balkans, jews from everywhere, pied noir (non muslim caucasians refugees from north africa), all went trhu the same process of starting of in those "cite" or in poor neighborhoods, put the emphasis on work and education for their children, and now are either out of there or maintained those neighborhood as livable places.
I do not try to draw any conclusion, but just try to paint a more accurate picture, those neighborhoods, if lacking of the charm of little countriside villages, are by no way architectural or urban ghettos.
I do not suscribe to our opinion that says that the french welfare state is to blame, or the french "laicite" (secularity) is an element preventing integration, it simply sets a few rules to allow comoon living, in the somewhat "uptight" french vision of "muliculturalism".
About the rula of the law and order, lets simply put it this way.
A car thieve forces a police check point, killing an officer who`s partner shoots and effectively neutralize the criminal (it occured in some "banlieue" in 99 if I remember well. The press condemned the police oficer for killing the thieve, who was 17, for shooting at a vehicle no lnger "endangering" him.
I guess it can resume the situation. The cops are handcuffed, ill equiped and for from receiving proper training out of intervention teams, (the mandatory shooting practice stood by 280 cartridge a year in static range in 1999!)
Any arrest or profiling leads to accusation of racism, and sentences are nonexistent for "petty" crime.
pretty bleak picture isn`t it?

[gilgoul]

Merci fantassin,

Maybe time has come to try the Leclerc in Urban combat, in Sarcelles and St Denis.


hey, you know very well the suburbs of Paris... ;)

Was born and grew up in Paris 19eme, belleville pyrenee


D'accord, merci pour cette précision. En éspèrant que tu parles français ! :)

Ben ouai koi po po po
jsuis cefran com toua koi po po po
vien dans ma teci koi po po po
jte ferais voir mon posse koi po po po

ok, j`arrete de lepar comme minister amer ;)

Non, serieux maintenant, eleve au bon vin at au boursin, entre Rebeval et cite rouge se trouvais mon bahut, Charles Peguy (encore un ecrivain).
Immigre en Israel en janvier 2001, n`ayant pas digere les manifs de "solidarite" avec le hamas de novembre 2000.

Shalom

[Deuterium]

Thanks for the article Duck.

[Kilgor]

FUTURE
Putting Tolerance to the Test: The Rise of Islam in Europe

By Dale Hurd
CBN News Sr. Reporter



There is no exaggerating Arab and Muslim anger and resentment. Most Arab immigrants live in slums, with four to five times the unemployment rate of native Europeans.


CBN.com – (CBN News) - The most common name for baby boys in Brussels is Mohammed. There are as many as 15 million Arabs and Muslims living in Europe. Europe needs babies and immigrants, because its birthrate has imploded, but Europe's not sure it wants these immigrants, because it fears the rise of Islam.
The political temperature is rising in Europe. Arabs and Muslims already felt like outsiders before France banned the headscarves in schools. The Dutch parliament voted to expel 26,000 asylum seekers, many of them from the Third World. Some are wondering if it is the beginning of an anti-immigrant backlash.

Many Europeans are nervous. They like to think that they are more enlightened and tolerant than the rest of the world, but that tolerance is being tested by a wave of immigration that could change the face of Europe.

Anti-immigrant far-right parties are growing all across the continent. In Austria, The Freedom Party; In Italy, the Northern League; in Switzerland, The People's Party; In France, The National Front; In Belgium, The Flemish Block; In Denmark, the People's Party, In Norway, The Progress Party.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, of France's far-right political party National Front, told CBN News that the cause of most of France's problems are immigrants from Africa and Asia, and his slogan is "France for the French."

Frank Vanhecke is leader of the Vlaams Blok, or Flemish Block, in Belgium. The party is strong in Belgium's Dutch-speaking North, and is poised to take over the Antwerp city government. Vanhecke is worried about the growth of what he says is a radical Islamic sub-culture that refuses to assimilate, and which has begun demanding that Arabic become an official language of Belgium.

Vanhecke said, "This is the kind of people we are dealing with - people who do not come to our country to adapt, to make a new life, to start again, to make a living, to be thankful for the country that accepts them. We are talking about people who, in fact, come to us as rulers, who want to become masters in our country. And I personally think, I fear, that this is a part of the Islamic religion."

His party's platform calls for all immigrants who refuse to adapt to the values and language of Belgium to be returned to their home countries.

Gareth Harding, UPI Bureau Chief in Brussels, commented, "I think, incontestably, the far right is on the march." And those marching with it, he said, are the angry.

Harding added, "I think that they feel, by talking to them there, betrayed by these mainstream parties who have simply refused to deal with common concerns about immigration, and about crime and falling standards of living."

German policy analyst Mirjam Dittrich thinks the right wing threat is overblown. He said, "I think there is xenophobia in Europe. And, of course, there are right wing parties that are exploiting existing fears and are playing on those fears. But I think at the same time we shouldn't exaggerate the threat of these right wing parties."

But there is no exaggerating Arab and Muslim anger and resentment. Most Arab immigrants live in slums, with four to five times the unemployment rate of native Europeans. They feel like outsiders, and many are turning to radical Arab leaders like Diyab Abou JahJah. JahJah's been called the Belgian Malcolm X. He's the head of the Arab European League in Antwerp. And he says White Europe doesn't want to face reality.

JahJah said, "It doesn't want to adapt to the fact that this society is multicultural now. It still behaves and acts as if we were like 50 years ago, when everybody here was white and Catholic and talking Dutch."

But JahJah, who leads those who feel like outsiders, doesn't want Arab and Muslim culture to be assimilated into Europe. And that is exactly what the right wing fears.

"We do not want to debate integration or assimilation, " says JahJah, "because we don't believe in that kind of debate. We believe in a debate about how a country should treat its own citizens, because we are not foreigners."

There may now be as many as seven Arabs for every Jew in Europe, and some believe that is the major reason that anti-Semitism has returned to Europe. A poll last year showed that most Europeans now think Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. Attacks on synagogues, schools, cemeteries and Jews are reminiscent of the 1930's.

Jewish student Eli Mamane said, "I've had people call me dirty jew, stinking jew, smelly jew. They've said, 'You Jews are [the] world's problem at the moment.' "

Michael Whine of the Jewish Community Security Trust, said, "Anti-Semitism now comes from Islamists, from the Middle East, from the Arab media, and there's an overspill, both of tension in the Middle East and the anti-Semitism that's being promoted within the Arab states itself."

But unlike most Arabs in the Middle East, Arabs in Europe can vote. And as their political clout grows, Europe is likely to become more anti-Semitic, more anti-Israel, more anti-American. A clash of civilizations is looming in Europe. France tried to strike a blow to Islamic separatism when it banned headscarves on Muslim schoolgirls. Muslim leaders warn the ban will backfire.

But after the headscarf ban, Dr. Dalil Boubakeur, the leading moderate Muslim spokesman in France, told a newspaper that French Muslims had become social pariahs, and he predicted violence in the streets. Even before the headscarf ban it was not uncommon for Arab demonstrations to end in riots. And as anti-immigrant parties convince more Europeans that Islam is a threat to European civilization, their power will grow.

Vlaams Blok's Vanhecke said, "The Islamic religion is a religion of force, which despises non-Islamic peoples. I think this may sound hard, but I think it's the truth."

With immigrants having babies three times faster than native Europeans, Europe's future is going to be multi-cultural. But it may not be peaceful.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/040322a.asp

[gilgoul]

All I can say is that the French better not do anything against these "alleged" perpetrators until they get UN approval or they should be labeled terrorists.

LOL, let`s ask the security counci and the ICJ to gives i`s opinion.
Maybe a wall would be deemed "illegal" ?

rofl

[gilgoul]

Last contribution before going to sleep, I have a life out of this forum rofl

Out of the deleter "sub culture" that developed in those projects, I saw also a lot of success and hope.
This girl I was with in junior high, Called tahn bin. She was a boat people refugee, barely speaking french , having landed from Vietnam a few month before.she came with a brother, younger, and lived with an aunt of some sort, working late hours after studiyng to help support the family.
She soon prooved to be an outstanding student, moved away from this school, way far off her potential. I met her brother during my last visit in Paris, he now owns a tobacco shop in the neighborhood, and she became a doctor.
This guy, Sami, a Christian Syrian who fled Syria after the murder of his father and brother by the Baathist regime. despite arriving wihtout a franc in his pocket, he succeded to open a work shop where he works 12 hours a day, hoping to open his shop some day.

To finish, my dad`s family, who came as refugees in 1962 from Algeria, with only the sorrow to have left everything and the relief to be alive.
After 15 years of hard work, where they privileged their children education and small change economies did they succeed to regroupand start anew, but eventually succeeded to build something.
I have dozens of those examples, Italians, yougoslaves, haitians, morocans and pakistanese.

Those people where once or are still the dwellers of those neighborhood, projects, first victims of the gangs of thugs, but they suceeded to live up to their ambitions and dreams. They are all of different religion than the mainstream french catholicism, they all talk diferent language, eat diferent food, mary diferently, but they are all foremost thankfull to their sheltering new country, they are (almost) all law abiding citizens or residents, they all put the emphasis on their children education, and all came with the smae idea, "what can I do for my family and my comunity".

[Rannyoby]

About the rula of the law and order, lets simply put it this way.
A car thieve forces a police check point, killing an officer who`s partner shoots and effectively neutralize the criminal (it occured in some "banlieue" in 99 if I remember well. The press condemned the police oficer for killing the thieve, who was 17, for shooting at a vehicle no lnger "endangering" him.
I guess it can resume the situation. The cops are handcuffed, ill equiped and for from receiving proper training out of intervention teams, (the mandatory shooting practice stood by 280 cartridge a year in static range in 1999!)
Any arrest or profiling leads to accusation of racism, and sentences are nonexistent for "petty" crime.
pretty bleak picture isn`t it?

Spot on ...


Those people where once or are still the dwellers of those neighborhood, projects, first victims of the gangs of thugs, but they suceeded to live up to their ambitions and dreams. They are all of different religion than the mainstream french catholicism, they all talk diferent language, eat diferent food, mary diferently, but they are all foremost thankfull to their sheltering new country, they are (almost) all law abiding citizens or residents, they all put the emphasis on their children education, and all came with the smae idea, "what can I do for my family and my comunity".
I'm with you there too. My wife is the daughter of an Italian immigrant and has a reasonnably good job today as History teacher in a Lycée, but she sometimes tells me about her familly life from her arrival in France to her late teenage when her father finally reached a good position in his factory as foreman and it's quite touching to listen how hard her parents and older brothers worked to earn their place in the french society and got involved in it (the father became syndicalist(and became a prud'homme jury members), and became involved in the life of his quarter and then his town by his participation to a lot of initiatives and associations).
My mother is almost in the same case (it's one of the reasons why my mother didn't reject my wife as she did with all my past conquêtes :p ).

In the end we have to admit that the "fouteurs de merde" are a minority and them apart France is not a bad country to live in ;) (heh, that's what we have to say if we want to sell it to foreigners :) )

[ariweiner]

Link to the original article please...

[Moledet]

Link to the original article please...
Still ignoring the truth? Maybe you should read some reports about anti semitism in Europe and by who it's being spreaded mostly.

[ariweiner]

I still would like a source link...

[Truthsayer]

Link to the original article please...
Still ignoring the truth? Maybe you should read some reports about anti semitism in Europe and by who it's being spreaded mostly.

p-l-z... :roll:

He was only asking for the original link - something that should _always_ follow news-postings in this forum.

[budanski]

'France split over battle for Muslim souls and minds' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1258634,00.html)

[seruriermarshal]

Betrays the byzantine empire in the middle ages, betrays the Jew in WWII , now is betraying the world ! Why ?

[obd]

hate to break it to you all but Arab immigrants are not the cause for the rise of anti-semetism in Europe, as much as it might make Europeans feel better about themselves........Anti-semetism is VERY strong among non Arab Europeans and in fact the bulk of European anti-semetic feeling still comes from non Arab Europeans.......as I witnessed myself listening to the French group where I live speak about "those aweful Jews"........

Europe had better wake up and stop blaming the Jews for all thier problems.....because they now have a far bigger and far more real problem than even thier wildest xenophobic fantasies about Jewish world domination could dream up: The huge expansion of ultra conservative Islam in Europe and the resultant spread of extreme right wing ideology which thrives on fear and doubt as can be seen now in America after the 9/11 attacks as American ultra right wing parties have experienced growth.......fear and hate feads those parties, despite thier claims of being based on this religion or that..........

Eventually these two forces: Unyielding Islam and unyielding right wing response, are going to clash.......its only a matter of time......who knows what will happen.........

Now, I can understand why people fear Islam (I fear it myself and I do not wish to live under Muslum rule but nor do I wish to live under Christian rule which history has taight can be just as unjust) ...which is why I will always support seperation of church and state.......... right wing ideology can be just as dangerous........There are Christian groups that would take society back to the dark ages if they could just as the Islamic Taliban did in Afghanistan....Thier are ultra conservatives that believe a womans place is in the home and subservient to her husband just as many Muslums do..........Both extremes are equally evil and bad and the key is to not let yourself be pulled to either extreme by these two forces.....Rational people must hold the middle ground besieged by idiots and zealots on all sides.....Its a tough place to be in, especially in times of war and insecurity when the radicals gain strength on both sides, but its up to the rational and well educated peoples to do thier best to make sure the community, the town, the city, the state, the nation...does not go the way of radicalism and ignorance and religious inspired ignorance...........

There, thats all I gotta say on that......

[obd]

hate to break it to you all but Arab immigrants are not the cause for the rise of anti-semetism in Europe, as much as it might make Europeans feel better about themselves........Anti-semetism is VERY strong among non Arab Europeans and in fact the bulk of European anti-semetic feeling still comes from non Arab Europeans.......as I witnessed myself listening to the French group where I live speak about "those aweful Jews"........

Europe had better wake up and stop blaming the Jews for all thier problems.....because they now have a far bigger and far more real problem than even thier wildest xenophobic fantasies about Jewish world domination could dream up: The huge expansion of ultra conservative Islam in Europe and the resultant spread of extreme right wing ideology which thrives on fear and doubt as can be seen now in America after the 9/11 attacks as American ultra right wing parties have experienced growth.......fear and hate feads those parties, despite thier claims of being based on this religion or that..........

Eventually these two forces: Unyielding Islam and unyielding right wing response, are going to clash.......its only a matter of time......who knows what will happen.........

Now, I can understand why people fear Islam (I fear it myself and I do not wish to live under Muslum rule but nor do I wish to live under Christian rule which history has taight can be just as unjust) ...which is why I will always support seperation of church and state.......... right wing ideology can be just as dangerous........There are Christian groups that would take society back to the dark ages if they could just as the Islamic Taliban did in Afghanistan....Thier are ultra conservatives that believe a womans place is in the home and subservient to her husband just as many Muslums do..........Both extremes are equally evil and bad and the key is to not let yourself be pulled to either extreme by these two forces.....Rational people must hold the middle ground besieged by idiots and zealots on all sides.....Its a tough place to be in, especially in times of war and insecurity when the radicals gain strength on both sides, but its up to the rational and well educated peoples to do thier best to make sure the community, the town, the city, the state, the nation...does not go the way of radicalism and ignorance and religious inspired ignorance...........

There, thats all I gotta say on that......

[seruriermarshal]

PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES

1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympics Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed, Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing

Never forgot !

[chauncy republicans]

PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES

1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympics Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed, Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing

Never forgot !
Care to post a list of Christian terror activities?

[seruriermarshal]

PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES

1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympics Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed, Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing

Never forgot !
Care to post a list of Christian terror activities?

Wait you send that !

[Sayeret]

Ariweiner have you no respect for other religions? It's people like you who give Muslims a bad image. You should be ashamed yourself.

Its only a matter of time before Hood bans you.

[Jehuty]

'France split over battle for Muslim souls and minds' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1258634,00.html)

Spare us the BS of the English tabloïds please.
What this article fails to mention is that at first these HLM estates (what we were supposse to do? Build an individual house for every immigrant?) were also full of "traditionnals" French who all managed to left when the troubles started and they were at first nice suburbs. (and now workers of the town hall or even the cops can't get in without being aggressed so these places are horrible).
It's easy to blame the government and the society, but the truth is that every of these children have access to school which is free and obligatory, no excuse if they are illetarate, most of them don't even go to school and after they search a scapegoat for their own failure. Those who works easely get out of these horrible suburbs, you don't pay yourself a nice little house if you don't work, it's a pretty simple rule.
The French government built the ghettos? Give me a ****ing break, they created themselves the ghetto effect, and now they blame everyone but them and it's up to the government to find a way to destroy these over-populated estates. At the time of the italian or polish immigrations, the immigrants were in big "workers cities" where they also lived together, and now they live as normally as any other other French.
Sure we have to do everything to integrate the North-Africans population of these suburbs (another thing the article doesn't mention, there are not only africans immigrants in the suburbs of big cities, but also in the countryside where they are integrated p-) ), but clearly some of them doesn't want to be integrated. So we'll have to fix this vicious circle one day or another.

Now i start to know you Budanski, i know the only reply for my post will be another ****load of links and statistics full of half-truths. p-)

[fantassin]

Quote:

Three youths—Rumanians—were attempting quite openly to break into a parking meter with large screwdrivers to steal the coins. It was four o’clock in the afternoon; the sidewalks were crowded, and the nearby cafés were full. The youths behaved as if they were simply pursuing a normal and legitimate activity, with nothing to fear.

That has been acted upon: in Paris, all the meters can't take coins anymore; you have to buy a debit card to pay. That has solved the problem once and for all....

[fantassin]

A rough translation from the AFP article.


Versailles. - Six men have violently mugged a 23 year old young woman who they believed was Jewish on Friday morning in the RER D suburban train, between Louvres and Sarcelles (Val d'Oise), , the police force has reported yesterday. The six attackers, origining from Maghreb and armed with knives, have cut the hair of the young woman, who was with her 13 month old baby; they then have lacerated her tee-shirt and trousers, before drawing, with a black felt pen, three swastika on her belly.

The six young men, who boarded the train at the Louvres station, started harrassing the young person, then took and opened her purse, which contained her ID, and seeing her address was in the XVIe district of Paris (the wealthiest part of the city)-where this young woman does not live anymore - they concluded she was Jewish, (which was not the case), because, according to what they said "that district is riddled with Jews".

The attackers then escaped, not before pushing the push chair to the ground and stealing the woman's purse.

Pdt Jacques Chirac has expressed his horror at this characteristically anti-semitic attack and demanded that the perpetrators of this odious act be brought to justice.

[stephane from Paris]

Well
Since i loose a tooth , 20 years ago, in a fight against 3 arabs for save my jacket, since i had several fight with youngs arabs where i lived (a 70% immigrant town just close to Paris) i could say that the only news is that these thugs attack her because they thinks she was jews and not because she was european origin!
Every days europeans are insulted or strike because of their origin!

The war in Irak gave a stronger voice to extremists islamists, in France since Chirac opposed the war, the muslims integrists point the only community who was for the war! For them it's a proof that jews sucks USA and Israel!!

The main responsability of left and right governments of the last 30 years, was to close their eyes on the anti european racism show in town suburns! French and immigrant european's origin leaved these place because of this racism and were replaced by other muslims immigrant.
The LE MONDE newspaper just publish a Police (Renseignements Generaux) repport who for the first time says that more than 300 places (1.3 millions of persons) are out of Republic laws (women places, communautarism, anti West values racism....).

OBD: i thinks that the french you meet are or ultra right wingers (FN party) or christians integrists (not numerous here).
There's some french jews here, it could be interresting if they give their experiences with french individuals! I don't thinks that french are antisemits (including most of ultra right wing voters).

[tooms]

Currently I live in the suburb of Paris ( grew up in place des Fetes 19e Gilgoul ;). I know muslim origin people with a good education, they really studied and they succeeded (all moderate and some of them atheist).
The others (of the young generation) who are only complaining about the government etc, i have less and less respect for them. I grew up with them we had the same chance, the didn't work enough, they didn't care of school, they created their own mess. Now they are jealous because they don't find work (or low paid).
One summer, as a student, i worked in carrefour ( like Wall mart), he laughed of me, this guy is certainely doing nothing today. An other asked me how to work there, i said him to send a CV and a motivation letter, he replied that he had no motivation, that says it all.

But it's a minority part of the young generation.

[East]

Pdt Jacques Chirac has expressed his horror at this characteristically anti-semitic attack and demanded that the perpetrators of this odious act be brought to justice.
Ha, Chirac is very anti-semitic.

[Tengu]

And they wonder why the far right is gaining territory in europe...

[fantassin]

Quote:

Ha, Chirac is very anti-semitic.



Of course, that's probably why last week the French Foreign minister had invited a delegation of Israeli journalists and academics to tour France all expenses paid in order to see for themself the truth about anti-semitism in the country.

The truth is that the moslems have imported the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into France and many French resent the Jews or/and the arabs for having disrupted civil peace with an issue they feel is not theirs.

That's what you pay for having the third largest Jewish population in the world and the largest moslem population in Europe.

[gilgoul]

Quote:


That's what you pay for having the third largest Jewish population in the world and the largest moslem population in Europe.

The Jews living in France never perturbed civil peace, or only at one point, when they where a major element of french resistance movements during WW2, completely out of proportion with their number.
Equalling jews and muslims in this affair is simply not fair, take a look at the contributions made to france by it`s jewish citizens, and you`ll see what i`m talking about.

[fantassin]

I am not comparing the two populations; all I am saying is that France has turned into a battlefield between Jews and moslems over the Palestine issue, something that most non Jewish or non-moslem French don't give a damn about

The Jews support Israel and the arabs support the Palestinians.

It would be fine if they lived in Palestine and Israel; but they live in France.

That's the problem.

[gilgoul]

I am not comparing the two populations; all I am saying is that France has turned into a battlefield between Jews and moslems over the Palestine issue, something that most non Jewish or non-moslem French don't give a damn about

The Jews support Israel and the arabs support the Palestinians.

It would be fine if they lived in Palestine and Israel; but they live in France.

That's the problem.
So let`s put it this way.
Out of the 600 000 jews living in France, the least is that the engagement toward Israel doesn`t go further than two annual demonstrations and spending some vacation time in Eilat, and that s fine with me.
The jews didn`t import this conflict there, but the arab population and the left as well as the extremme right did, don`t forget the "a PAris comme a Gaza, Intifadah" of the Group Union Defense in the 90`s.
Other point, not a single Mosque has been torched not a single Hijab wearing woman has been attacked by jews.
The only thing that the jews of France claimed, jews of France who a French in every aspect, who made France as well as the "traditional" frenchmen, was a fair treatment, and some compassion when the first attacks started against them in France, not in Israel.
This France failed to deliver, to show some minimal respect to a community that never made the news for the number of criminals among it, but for it`s contribution to the greater comunities.
By still considering jews as stranger in your country, while some might have been there longer than your ancestors, by equaling the victim and the agressor, you simply show this very intellectual lazyness and lack of fairness that made France a caricature of itself.

[fantassin]

Hey, quieten down there, we've been there a zillion times before as soon as the words "Jewish" and "French" are in the same thread and the end is always the same.

You can't deny the conflict has been imported in France, that's all I am saying. And why ? because the origins of the two groups are stronger than their national feelings, i.e they feel more moslem than French or more Jew than French.

For the rest, considering you left France because you did not feel at ease there as a Jew, I won't even bother discussing it, you've made up your choice and I respect it.

[Luxembourger]

Here is my point of view for someone who studies in France.

The 600 000 jews are well integrated and they don t bother people with their religion . They don t place bombs in subways or set cars on fire like in strassbourg.

The muslim community is not fully integrated, I would say a majoritiy is not integrated although having the french nationality .
Does anyone of you remember the french-Algeria soccer game , a game that the french president attended? When the french national athmed was played it was interrupted by the algerian communitiy who shouted all the time and discredited the french anthem . This is only one exemple.

Soemtimes I wonder, that France should only keep the eldery muslim people in France and the muslim people who go after their daily business ( food stores, restaurants etc....)

And then you really have the ones , the younger ones that hang around all the day in downtown or in their suburbs , set on fire cars, attack firefigthters ( which happened) , assault people , and spray with cans on walls " Bi laden is our hero and we will kick you french chrisiitans out of France" .


The day Saddam was caught, the next day you could see on a wall next to my university " Ffree Saddam our hero"

What a shame, those youg muslims have the opportunity to live in a democratic state , a country where they have all the chances to succeed in their live, but they just don t take the opportunity , they watch too much Al jazeera filled with Anti-west hate .

[Jehuty]

Here is my point of view for someone who studies in France.

Which university? (just to know)

[ariweiner]

I still don't see a source link. Hmm...

[gilgoul]

I still don't see a source link. Hmm...

sources, here are some sources :


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1089516099595

For the english press in Israel

http://www.leparisien.com/home/info/faitsdivers/article.htm?articleid=241083596

http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20040711.FIG0181.html

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3224,36-372306,0.html

http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=222932

For the french press, even chirac is "flabergasted"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=3&u=/ap/france_anti_semitic_attack

That is for the main source
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2945664,00.html
to finish on a hebrew note.

After that you`ll tell me it`s an other Jewish conspiracy?

[BlackRain]

Almost 2 million living in France's angry ghettos

Amelia Gentleman in Paris
Tuesday July 6, 2004
The Guardian

Almost 2 million French citizens are living in newly created urban ghettos in an environment characterised by anti-French feeling, racial hatred and the oppression of women, according to a French intelligence agency report leaked yesterday.

The report, parts of which were published in Le Monde, concluded that approximately 1.8 million people across France were living in places which were either "already ghettos or on the way to becoming them".

The study is set to reignite the debate over France's struggle to integrate its immigrant population and its inability to cope with rising unemployment, ****** inequality and growing fundamentalism in its urban sink estates.

The agency studied 630 at-risk areas in France, places selected because they had experienced some level of urban violence, to assess whether they had already degenerated into ghettos. Most of the "sensitive suburbs" are run-down housing estates built by the French government between the 50s and 70s to house immigrant workers.

The intelligence body based its definition on a range of criteria encompassing high immigration levels, high levels of non-French speakers at school, the presence of anti-semitic and anti-western graffiti, growing numbers of inhabitants wearing religious or oriental dress, and a growth in Muslim religious institutions. They reported that more than 300 areas were already ghettoised. The report added that the wealthier inhabitants "usually of European descent" were moving out en masse.

The agency underlines the "growing role of radical Islamic preachers", whose presence is recorded in 200 of the quartiers studied.

France's commitment to secularism has been under scrutiny during the debate this year over legislation banning headscarves from schools - a move designed in theory to protect the secular state, but which has triggered resentment rather aided integration. The report concludes, according to Le Monde, that preachers are instilling in young inhabitants the idea that they are the "victims of discrimination and racism" triggering a growth of anti-French sentiment.

Women are at risk, the intelligence services add, particularly those of north African origin who choose to adopt European ways of life.

The French interior ministry has not commented on the report, except to state that since taking the job as interior minister this year, Dominique de Villepin has been determined to work towards improving a sense of national unity.

A report published this year by the High Council on Integration said an "enormous effort" was needed to assimilate adolescents of immigrant origin.

Last year the French government began to tackle this issue, launching a renovation programme for its city suburbs, pledging £21bn to improve the worst of the estates.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1254951,00.html


--------------

Interesting French Populations Stats:

Population Size: 60,424,213 (July 2004 est.)1
Population Living in "Angry Ghettos": 2,000,000
Ratio of Population Living in "Angry Ghettos": 1:30.2

Islam is the second largest religion in France, with approximately 4.2 million adherents, after 45 million adherents to Catholicism, and before Protestantism (1 million), Buddhism (600 000), Judaism (525 000) and French Eastern Orthodoxy (150 000) (data: 2000-2003).2

1. CIA World Fact Book
2. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Islam_in_France

[gilgoul]

Here is my point of view for someone who studies in France.

Which university? (just to know)

Forgot to tell you, but I love your avatar, Gotlib`s ladybug gave me some crazy hours!
tiens, je vais me relire un rubric a brac

[Jehuty]

Here is my point of view for someone who studies in France.

Which university? (just to know)

Forgot to tell you, but I love your avatar, Gotlib`s ladybug gave me some crazy hours!
tiens, je vais me relire un rubric a brac

Heh je suis un fan pur et dur de Gotlib :P

[ariweiner]

Thank you for the source links.

[chauncy republicans]

Almost 2 million living in France's angry ghettos

Amelia Gentleman in Paris
Tuesday July 6, 2004
The Guardian

Almost 2 million French citizens are living in newly created urban ghettos in an environment characterised by anti-French feeling, racial hatred and the oppression of women, according to a French intelligence agency report leaked yesterday.

The report, parts of which were published in Le Monde, concluded that approximately 1.8 million people across France were living in places which were either "already ghettos or on the way to becoming them".

The study is set to reignite the debate over France's struggle to integrate its immigrant population and its inability to cope with rising unemployment, ****** inequality and growing fundamentalism in its urban sink estates.

The agency studied 630 at-risk areas in France, places selected because they had experienced some level of urban violence, to assess whether they had already degenerated into ghettos. Most of the "sensitive suburbs" are run-down housing estates built by the French government between the 50s and 70s to house immigrant workers.

The intelligence body based its definition on a range of criteria encompassing high immigration levels, high levels of non-French speakers at school, the presence of anti-semitic and anti-western graffiti, growing numbers of inhabitants wearing religious or oriental dress, and a growth in Muslim religious institutions. They reported that more than 300 areas were already ghettoised. The report added that the wealthier inhabitants "usually of European descent" were moving out en masse.

The agency underlines the "growing role of radical Islamic preachers", whose presence is recorded in 200 of the quartiers studied.

France's commitment to secularism has been under scrutiny during the debate this year over legislation banning headscarves from schools - a move designed in theory to protect the secular state, but which has triggered resentment rather aided integration. The report concludes, according to Le Monde, that preachers are instilling in young inhabitants the idea that they are the "victims of discrimination and racism" triggering a growth of anti-French sentiment.

Women are at risk, the intelligence services add, particularly those of north African origin who choose to adopt European ways of life.

The French interior ministry has not commented on the report, except to state that since taking the job as interior minister this year, Dominique de Villepin has been determined to work towards improving a sense of national unity.

A report published this year by the High Council on Integration said an "enormous effort" was needed to assimilate adolescents of immigrant origin.

Last year the French government began to tackle this issue, launching a renovation programme for its city suburbs, pledging £21bn to improve the worst of the estates.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1254951,00.html


--------------

Interesting French Populations Stats:

Population Size: 60,424,213 (July 2004 est.)1
Population Living in "Angry Ghettos": 2,000,000
Ratio of Population Living in "Angry Ghettos": 1:30.2

Islam is the second largest religion in France, with approximately 4.2 million adherents, after 45 million adherents to Catholicism, and before Protestantism (1 million), Buddhism (600 000), Judaism (525 000) and French Eastern Orthodoxy (150 000) (data: 2000-2003).2

1. CIA World Fact Book
2. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Islam_in_France
Only 2 million?!? **** man, dont you live in America? :cantbeli:

[Beowulf]

Ratio

[Kilgor]

yes, the ratio

One in ten are muslim

and with declining birthrates amonst native europeans, high birthrates amonst muslims, high level of poverty, crime, unemployment and islamic extremism its gonna be a big problem.

[ariweiner]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

[gilgoul]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

Get out of here :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[seruriermarshal]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:

[SwissGrenadier]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:

in france most muslims are descendants of guest workers from north africa, from the so called Maghreb (spelling?), AFAIK

[gilgoul]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:

The sad thing is that they aren`t even illegal, but descendants of hard working "invited" north african workers.
Still, ari wiener shows once again how far he is from realities, and how is "contributions" aren`t worth answer, since he doesn`t have the basic politeness to address the questions brought to him.

[DPGLAW]

The French are probably going to give them a medal, they are only upset that the terrorists didin't, god forbid, try to assissinate our president or get one of the infidel americans :)

[cut]

The French are probably going to give them a medal, they are only upset that the terrorists didin't, god forbid, try to assissinate our president or get one of the infidel americans :)

piss off to another thread before you push it too far and get banned

[chauncy republicans]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:
You are quickly accelerating through the ranks of stupidity....godspeed.

[ariweiner]

...address the questions brought to him
I must have missed it. Which question are you talking about?

[seruriermarshal]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:
You are quickly accelerating through the ranks of stupidity....godspeed.

You are really fool ! perhaps ban you , then you will know that what's meaning with politeness !

:fork:

[BlackRain]

The Associate Press is reporting today another problem with this mother being attack in the train.


The 23-year-old woman was attacked Friday as passengers on the train did nothing to help her or her infant, who was knocked out of a stroller. Neither was seriously hurt.


Source: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-france12.html

[sgt.pepper]

ARABOFASCIZM

[UkrainianAmerican]

The Associate Press is reporting today another problem with this mother being attack in the train.


The 23-year-old woman was attacked Friday as passengers on the train did nothing to help her or her infant, who was knocked out of a stroller. Neither was seriously hurt.


Source: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-france12.html
F*CKING PIGS!

[Deuterium]

The Associate Press is reporting today another problem with this mother being attack in the train.


The 23-year-old woman was attacked Friday as passengers on the train did nothing to help her or her infant, who was knocked out of a stroller. Neither was seriously hurt.


Source: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-france12.html

Indeed I just ruined my breakfast reading the article in my paper. I sure hope this isn't true. If it is, what a bunch of puss*es. The passengers, not the criminals.

[Zarathustra]

Source: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-france12.html


This article forgot to say that the young thugs were arabs... :roll:
very strange... :roll:

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Now now, we mustn’t point fingers. It's not proper to identify certain groups with any kind of negative connotations, lest we be labeled as hate mongers. ;)

[Jehuty]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

[Deuterium]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

Then I'm glad I live in Colorado and not France. A baby and a mother and no one does a thing. Like I said maybe this isn't the whole story. All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

[tooms]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

Then I'm glad I live in Colorado and not France. A baby and a mother and no one does a thing. Like I said maybe this isn't the whole story. All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

We don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

[Jehuty]

Maybe it would have been the same in Colorado. (i already know the reply: no in America everyone is a hero). As for your stupid stereotypes i don't care, everyone here blame the passengers too (you probably heard the reaction of a minister who compared the situation with WW2) but me i try to understand. (and from behind my computer i don't find many excuses for them.) Generalizations made by foreigners is not my main concern about these serious antisemit attacks.

[Deuterium]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

Then I'm glad I live in Colorado and not France. A baby and a mother and no one does a thing. Like I said maybe this isn't the whole story. All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

We don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

I guess your command of the english language is a little limited. I'll cut you some slack. Please read my comments again. If you need any help or if you'd like me to translate it into your native tongue just ask.

[tooms]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

Then I'm glad I live in Colorado and not France. A baby and a mother and no one does a thing. Like I said maybe this isn't the whole story. All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

We don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

I guess your command of the english language is a little limited. I'll cut you some slack. Please read my comments again. If you need any help or if you'd like me to translate it into your native tongue just ask.


All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

[Deuterium]

Frankly from here i'm also disgusted by the lack of reaction from the others pessangers but i wonder if it's that easy to charge 6 guys armed with knives, knowing that the others probably won't follow you.

Sad sad story.

Then I'm glad I live in Colorado and not France. A baby and a mother and no one does a thing. Like I said maybe this isn't the whole story. All this story does is perpetuate the myth(?) of the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Get it right.

[Deuterium]

Oh and the "cheese eating surrender monkey" is a quote from Dennis Miller. This is a VERY common stereotype of the French in America. Just as you French have your, unflattering, stereotypes of us, we have them of you. They are all stereotypes, bad ones. My point of the (?) was showing that this will further the negative stereotype. I'm sorry you didn't understand.

[Olybrius]

we don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

so true
and more the investigation progresses , more this story looks like a faking...

http://permanent.nouvelobs.com/societe/20040711.OBS2643.html

not surprising...

[Deuterium]

we don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

so true
and more the investigation progresses and more this story looks like a faking...

http://permanent.nouvelobs.com/societe/20040711.OBS2643.html

not surprising...

Send in Al Sharpton. He does well in these cases ALA Tawana Brawley

[Jehuty]

we don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

so true
and more the investigation progresses , more this story looks like a faking...

http://permanent.nouvelobs.com/societe/20040711.OBS2643.html

not surprising...

Wow if it's fake, it's really a bad taste joke.At least it's good to see the police doing all they can to solve the case.

[stateofequilibrium]

To go off on a slight tangent regarding the growing number of muslims (especially the radical kind) in France:

A few months ago I met this really nice man from France who was trying to raise money for a missions trip. I struck up a conversation with him and asked him about Frances feelings regarding Iraq and 9/11. What he said was there are a number of French who are downright SCARED about Arab reprisal if France went along with the US. Maybe that's not Chirac's stance, but if citizens are scared to INaction, does that mean terrorism has won?

[Uncle Chô]

we don't know yet the whole story, how many were exactly the passengers, how many of them are adult male. There is an investigation so please stfu and don't start a flame war please.

so true
and more the investigation progresses , more this story looks like a faking...
That is precisely what I thought from the beginning. As usual everybody jumped on that case but there are too many details that went wrong :

- not a single eye witness
- nobody helped after the attack? Come on, this could not be possible
- she did not call for help and did not go straight to the police
- the CCTV did not record anything at the station

She mignt have been assaulted for good but the scenario is a bit too much to me...

I might be wrong (this is a personal feeling) but the police is more and more cautious...

[BlackRain]

Wow, no one came to the women's aid. So the story must be a fake.

Denial is just not a river in Europe.

[gilgoul]

I read that this might be a "fake", because no "witness" came out.
That`s funny how in France when a case is problematic, the first reflex is to badmouth the complainer, and "qui vivra verra".
Maybe this is a really bad joke or some crasy person trying to draw attention, or express her fears or I do`ntr know what, maybe it was only one guy or two, maybe she didn`t even suffered from an antisemite act, was just robed.
What I know is that if I was one of the coward in the train that didn`t even pulled the alarm, I wouldn`t move forward.

[Jehuty]

Wow, no one came to the women's aid. So the story must be a fake.

You have no clue about what the article says yet you scream to denial? Maybe it was true but it's also possible that it was a fake, nobody knows so far, the investigation is not finished and the points raised by Uncle Cho are perfectly true but of course you genius you already know this was for real right? Could it be because it was in France? :roll:
Go cry the river troll.

[Kilgor]

the story might be fake, but we all know there is big problems when it comes to certain areas of racial crime in france.

Thats why the story is easily accepted as true.

[Jehuty]

I read that this might be a "fake", because no "witness" came out.
That`s funny how in France when a case is problematic, the first reflex is to badmouth the complainer, and "qui vivra verra".
Maybe this is a really bad joke or some crasy person trying to draw attention, or express her fears or I do`ntr know what, maybe it was only one guy or two, maybe she didn`t even suffered from an antisemite act, was just robed.
What I know is that if I was one of the coward in the train that didn`t even pulled the alarm, I wouldn`t move forward.

Read the article of the NouvelObs it is not only because no witness came out.

[Olybrius]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/12/france.attack.ap/index.html

[sgt.pepper]

she was known for being slightly mad and maybe she tried to draw attention of folks surrounding her.

[Uncle Chô]

The truth is slightly coming out (http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20040713.FIG0315.html)... (sorry - in French only)

To sum up the lady appears to be a notorious pathological liar and a relative give us more details of her past compulsive liars.

Gilgoul I do not deny daily agressions in the trains and elsewhere and growing antisemitism acts but on that peculiar case I was really mad how 90% of the population and the politics reacted without checking the evidences. To my knowledge only one politic (Liberal Julien Dray) said Sunday evening this story was a bit odd to him and that he refused to make comments until the police investigation closes.

[moughoun]

Ya, I was watching Euronews :oops: , and she'sdone this sort of thing a few time's before

[Uncle Chô]

And the worst is if there is a next real assault everybody will say :" Ha ha, remember the July 2004 RER case? You are a liar, you are exagerating the truth " etc.

Everybody -especially the politics- lost a good reason to STFU on that case and to wait the end of the investigation to become indignant.

I am an anonymous citizen not a member of some kind of intelligentsia and I am not a cop but I repeat myself - from the first time I have heard of that story I find it not very credible.

[fantassin]

They said on the radio this morning that a witness came forward to indicate the woman's trousers were already ripped when she boarded the train.


One of her relatives has written the Figaro daily to inform the press that this woman has a long history of psychological problems and inventing stories; a few months ago she made believe she had been ******ly assaulted; altogether, she filled 4 or 5 different complaints in the past few years and none were proved to be true.

[Uncle Chô]

Hey Fantassin, il va falloir penser à éditer le titre de ton thread ;)

[gilgoul]

The truth is slightly coming out (http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20040713.FIG0315.html)... (sorry - in French only)

To sum up the lady appears to be a notorious pathological liar and a relative give us more details of her past compulsive liars.

Gilgoul I do not deny daily agressions in the trains and elsewhere and growing antisemitism acts but on that peculiar case I was really mad how 90% of the population and the politics reacted without checking the evidences. To my knowledge only one politic (Liberal Julien Dray) said Sunday evening this story was a bit odd to him and that he refused to make comments until the police investigation closes.


True, your wisdom brings me back on track, before getting swalloded by the collective hysteria again. :D

[Shadow]

Now i start to know you Budanski, i know the only reply for my post will be another ****load of links and statistics full of half-truths.

Yeah that's how everybody knows him. :D

[Haiw]

The only thing that surprised me about this thread was that it wasn't started (triumphantly) by budanski...

[Uncle Chô]

The only thing that surprised me about this thread was that it wasn't started (triumphantly) by budanski...
He is currently working on the file (http://www.geeksnmore.com/GeekMadComputer.jpg) collecting data ;)

[tooms]

rofl

[Jehuty]

Now that's ****ig great!! This woman doesn't realize how much harm this fake story will make...

[Uncle Chô]

Yeap she just confessed to the investigators it's all lies.

:cantbeli:

[Zarathustra]

she's in prison, for a while, apparently. rofl

[cut]

the story might be fake, but we all know there is big problems when it comes to certain areas of racial crime in france.

Thats why the story is easily accepted as true.

:roll:

It was only easily accepted as true by you lot who believe everything the right wing press says about france.

[chauncy republicans]

France has only itself to blame. They bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers, pay them slave wages, put them in ghettos and this is the result.

They are illegal immigration ! do you understand ?

:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:
You are quickly accelerating through the ranks of stupidity....godspeed.

You are really fool ! perhaps ban you , then you will know that what's meaning with politeness !

:fork:
:lol: Are you asian? I have a feeling your Korean...

[vryhpyammoadded]

Send in Al Sharpton. He does well in these cases ALA Tawana Brawley
rofl
Dam, you beat me to it.

[Jehuty]

So BlackRain, we are still in denial or your post was just plain stupid?

[UoUo]

Ho i am glad as hell that she wasn't Jewish...

[sgt.pepper]

she did it now there will not be amnesty for antisemitic crimes

[East]

leave it be people! The facts have been established, I think you've all beat this topic to death enough already.

[Kilgor]

the story might be fake, but we all know there is big problems when it comes to certain areas of racial crime in france.

Thats why the story is easily accepted as true.

:roll:

It was only easily accepted as true by you lot who believe everything the right wing press says about france.


Its got nothing to do with political preferences.
France has a big problem when it comes to attacks against jews.

Are you seriously in denile ? :cantbeli:

In a morning radio interview, government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope said that whether the woman's account proved true or not had little bearing on France's need to stem hate crimes.

"The explosion of the number of racist and anti-Semitic acts committed in our country in the last few years is a reality that we must combat," Cope told RTL radio.

The Interior Ministry released figures last week showing that hate crimes had spiked in the first half of the year. There were 510 anti-Jewish acts or threats in the first six months of 2004 — nearly as many as in all of last year, 593.

Racist attacks were up too: There were 95 attacks and 161 threats through June, compared to 232 total such crimes reported in 2003. "

[budanski]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/toons/lurie/antisemitism_european.gif

[Javehn]

Great , stupid bitch :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

Why the hell did she lied ? This is going to make some serious damage .

[Fargin]

So she lied,

I'm just glad the Anti-Euro-Anti-Semitism Brigade showed up and delivered the expected: All europeans are generalizing nazis bastards.

p-)

[Nordic Fire]

Hoax race attack woman sentenced (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3927739.stm)

A French court has handed down a four-month suspended prison sentence to a woman who invented a story about being the victim of an anti-Semitic assault. Marie-Leonie Leblanc, 23, was also put on two years' probation and ordered to get psychiatric treatment.

[Zarathustra]

Hoax race attack woman sentenced (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3927739.stm)

A French court has handed down a four-month suspended prison sentence to a woman who invented a story about being the victim of an anti-Semitic assault. Marie-Leonie Leblanc, 23, was also put on two years' probation and ordered to get psychiatric treatment.

pathetic story, really... :roll:

[Saranof]

Still, I find it nice that most people here don't go "typical arbas kill em kill bin ladens lovers". Good that you see that hate crimes are everywhere

[n4292936]

Hoax race attack woman sentenced


Marie-Leonie Leblanc admitted ripping her own clothes
A French court has handed down a four-month suspended prison sentence to a woman who invented a story about being the victim of an anti-Semitic assault.
Marie-Leonie Leblanc, 23, was also put on two years' probation and ordered to get psychiatric treatment.

Her story of swastikas being daubed on her body during a brutal attack on a Paris train caused outrage in France.

She claimed that Arab and black youths had also slashed her clothes and cut a lock of her hair.


"I wanted my parents to take care of me," she told the court in Cergy-Pontoise, north-west of Paris.

"I was aware of the lie that I had told, but I didn't think it would go so far in terms of the media coverage, that the media would become aware of the incident."

The court also ordered her to pay a symbolic one euro in damages to the French national railway, SNCF, the French news agency AFP reported.

Hours after the attack was first reported, French President Jacques Chirac expressed his horror and called for the perpetrators to be punished.

But Ms Leblanc's lies were uncovered when no witnesses came forward and closed-circuit video cameras failed to show evidence of the attack in the train station on 9 July.

She later said she had ripped her own clothes and drawn the swastikas on her own stomach with her boyfriend's help.


What a bitch!

[mlrs84]

European ideology is difficult to understand.
That's funny, because here in Europe we sometimes find the American ideology hard to understand. It's always about "God bless" and that stuff, and everyone who isn't a fully devoted patriot and support Bush 110% is a pussy and a terrorist. You talk about these french arabs like they are the whole population of France, and what these girls said about jews is not very hard to understand. I personally don't agree with their opinion however. As for another thing, when France didn't support the invasion of Iraq, many Americans saw that as an insult to a country which was vital in it's liberation from the Nazis. To really think that a country no longer is thankful for a job done 60 years earlier just because they don't support a war that was started on wrong reasons, (they still haven't found any WMDs, and was there really a connection between bin Laden and Saddam), that's just stupid. Do you really think you can get the whole world to do what you want? There's probably the reason for many of the US problems today. You always have to interfere in conflicts that were not initially yours, but were made so because you couldn't stay out. During the cold war you fought two major wars in Asia. For what? They didn't threaten you. What about Afghanistan in the 80s. Do you think you would have had a problem with bin Laden nowadays, if you had kept out of the USSR-Afghani conflict? Same with the Iran-Iraq war too. So you made your own mess, and it's not fair to blame other countries for not sticking up to you.
Sorry if I offended your Holy Land that God made (btw according to some of you God is in fact american) but I just needed to get this off my shoulders.

[Zarathustra]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/toons/lurie/antisemitism_european.gif


Of course, everyone know that there are no antisemitism in USA... :roll:
Never heard of the Ku Klux Klan ?

[cut]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.



How the **** would you know what's chic or not in France?

[gilgoul]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.



How the f*** would you know what's chic or not in France?

So I can tell you, the first time I come to visit my family, it`s in october 2001, after I came to live in Isael, I take the RER between Roissy and Paris, carrying a "yedihot acharonot" paper, a little group of arab kids come to me and start to insult me, telling me that if i read "jewish" I might be a legitimate target, I play it cool up to the point when one punches me in the neck, while his friend tries his low kick on my shoulder, I got one, but I`m not jacky Chan, and got my ass kicked, so the first thing that my mom saw was a bruisy and bleedy son, I got to say that the only guy who came to help was an african dude.
NOT a SINGLE person, exept for this guy, came to see if I was okay.

[cut]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.



How the f*** would you know what's chic or not in France?

So I can tell you, the first time I come to visit my family, it`s in october 2001, after I came to live in Isael, I take the RER between Roissy and Paris, carrying a "yedihot acharonot" paper, a little group of arab kids come to me and start to insult me, telling me that if i read "jewish" I might be a legitimate target, I play it cool up to the point when one punches me in the neck, while his friend tries his low kick on my shoulder, I got one, but I`m not jacky Chan, and got my ass kicked, so the first thing that my mom saw was a bruisy and bleedy son, I got to say that the only guy who came to help was an african dude.
NOT a SINGLE person, exept for this guy, came to see if I was okay.

I'm not questioning that at all, what I am questioning is budanski's authority on this subject, you living in Israel must know how the world press distorts the truth, and yet budanski bases all his criticism on it. I think equating mild anti-semitism in France to that of the Nazis is what I take offence to. Also although I there is clearly anti-semitism in France, the people not helping you on the train is not a fair measurement, when I was kid I was mugged on a train and no-one came to ask me if I was ok, my race didn't come into it.

[Zarathustra]

I'm not questioning that at all, what I am questioning is budanski's authority on this subject, you living in Israel must know how the world press distorts the truth, and yet budanski bases all his criticism on it. I think equating mild anti-semitism in France to that of the Nazis is what I take offence to. Also although I there is clearly anti-semitism in France, the people not helping you on the train is not a fair measurement, when I was kid I was mugged on a train and no-one came to ask me if I was ok, my race didn't come into it.


Most of my friends in the parisians suburbs have been attacked, in the train or in the tube, myself included ( 4 times in 2002 :-*$ :petting: ) but what can you do ? if you are alone and no-one come trying to help you.. :roll: .That's true that some people are cowards...but if i was in the same situation, i will try something, at least the minimum if the thugs are too many...

[gilgoul]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.



How the f*** would you know what's chic or not in France?

So I can tell you, the first time I come to visit my family, it`s in october 2001, after I came to live in Isael, I take the RER between Roissy and Paris, carrying a "yedihot acharonot" paper, a little group of arab kids come to me and start to insult me, telling me that if i read "jewish" I might be a legitimate target, I play it cool up to the point when one punches me in the neck, while his friend tries his low kick on my shoulder, I got one, but I`m not jacky Chan, and got my ass kicked, so the first thing that my mom saw was a bruisy and bleedy son, I got to say that the only guy who came to help was an african dude.
NOT a SINGLE person, exept for this guy, came to see if I was okay.

I'm not questioning that at all, what I am questioning is budanski's authority on this subject, you living in Israel must know how the world press distorts the truth, and yet budanski bases all his criticism on it. I think equating mild anti-semitism in France to that of the Nazis is what I take offence to. Also although I there is clearly anti-semitism in France, the people not helping you on the train is not a fair measurement, when I was kid I was mugged on a train and no-one came to ask me if I was ok, my race didn't come into it.

My "race" is not in the queston wether people come toyour help es or not, being mugged in the metro, and kicking back has been a part of my life and I never questoined that, it simply seems that people are too dcared to take any step to help one another, so if they are such pussies, let them die right?
I gt my poor ass involved in so many cases that I don`t remember, I even once dtried to defend a birdy against so gang of Zulus, the french will understand.
The problem is nt wether you are ethnically "seen" or not, I bet you couldn`t diferentiate me from any other caucasian on a police mugshot checking, but this lack of involvement, this fear is scary.
SO what, the gangs finally suceeded, the "suburbs" are finally in the market, thru racket and tolerance for a bit of quiet, why not, you`ll pay the price, I`ll pay an other one.

[uTu]

Hoax race attack woman sentenced (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3927739.stm)

A French court has handed down a four-month suspended prison sentence to a woman who invented a story about being the victim of an anti-Semitic assault. Marie-Leonie Leblanc, 23, was also put on two years' probation and ordered to get psychiatric treatment.
I couldn't believe it when I read it in local papers and now I'm glad I don't have to at all. What a low bitch. Goddamn wackjob
F**K ANTI-SEMITISM/NAZISM REGARDLESS

[Olybrius]

I'm not questioning that at all, what I am questioning is budanski's authority on this subject, you living in Israel must know how the world press distorts the truth, and yet budanski bases all his criticism on it. I think equating mild anti-semitism in France to that of the Nazis is what I take offence to. Also although I there is clearly anti-semitism in France, the people not helping you on the train is not a fair measurement, when I was kid I was mugged on a train and no-one came to ask me if I was ok, my race didn't come into it.


Most of my friends in the parisians suburbs have been attacked, in the train or in the tube, myself included ( 4 times in 2002 :-*$ :petting: ) but what can you do ? if you are alone and no-one come trying to help you.. :roll: .That's true that some people are cowards...but if i was in the same situation, i will try something, at least the minimum if the thugs are too many...

amusing to see that this board is suddenly full of people who were attacked by muslims in french train... be careful if you want to complain to the police ;)

[khukuri]

Well in sweden everytime there is some critisiscm against israel some poeple here goes hysteria screaming anti-semitism and starts reminding people of holocaust.
The mix anti-israel with anti-jew.

A friend of mine had a palestinian flagin his window and people called the police because they felt it was anit-semitic.

But ofcourse there is racists here just like in the us or russia. And jews do get offended alot. I just wanted to say that sometimes they use the frase anti-semitic to gain politically when it comes to the matter israel-palestine.

[budanski]

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

Not that it really matters if she was lying or telling the truth, its become apparent that anti-semitism is now chic in France and other parts of the EU.



How the f*** would you know what's chic or not in France?

Seeing how you're such a big fan of the BBC, I'm surprised you havent kept up with whats 'chic'...

'Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2626825.stm)
'Europe shaken by anti-Jewish attacks' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1959441.stm)
'Jews warn of rising anti-Semitism' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1946851.stm)
'New attack on Paris synagogue' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1921892.stm)
'Detentions after Jewish attacks' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1912267.stm)
'French Jews fear more violence' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1909571.stm)
'French Jews accuse North Africans' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/975652.stm)