The Israeli bridge helped 1973 to first crossing of Suez Canal "Operation Gazelle"

[Yahia Al Shaer]

The Israeli bridge helped 1973 to first crossing of Suez Canal
"Operation Gazelle"




Military history includes lots of surprises , not only in its later known "details", but also about the developments of specific actions during
the flow of war and their impacts on history.


Following are some of the available photos, about the Israeli Bridge, (a unique construction) , which was prepared long time before the crossing (even prior to the 1973 Yom Kippur war), as now known and is published .

Sure, there are and will be more photos to be published, of this unique military bridge, which impacts, have contributed to change history in the middle east


It was used by general Ariel Sharon , to cross the Suez Canal (at the Temsah Lake) on the night of 19th - 20th October 1973


Her had mentioned it in his book "Ariel Sharon , WARRIOR", but never published the photos, but another book had dealt with the topic in a
better and detaied matter.


I have read an article some-time ago, in a military forum , that israel has
developed and improved this bridge, to enlighten its weight and improve its field maneuverabilty, meet with the modern battlefield requirements
and to make it a global military equipment for "export".


It is useful to read , what general Sharon had published about the problems, they faced , not only to transport that bridge across the last section of Sinai desert but also when and how they moved it across the Suez Canal , from the eastern to the western bank .



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer



The Israeli bridge helped 1973 to first crossing of Suez Canal
"Operation Gazelle"



http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3308/71091380.jpg



http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1163/57649108.jpg



http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4659/photo8z.jpg





a mobile bridge built by the idf on the suez canal.


http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6296/anidfarmouredcarcrossin.jpg



an idf armoured car crossing the mobile bridge built by the idf on the suez canal.


http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/78/amobilebridgebuiltbythe.jpg




19.10.73 - the brigade crosses the canal.


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5858/283w.jpg




http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2710/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.jpg


http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2710/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.jpg



http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2710/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2710/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.jpg



http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2886/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa7m.jpg



http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2886/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa7m.jpg




http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2482/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.png


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2482/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa8.png




http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3990/booksid1byksxt6tscpgpa7.jpg









http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4673/map03afr7.jpg






http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8750/e73053a09da06725acc9511.jpg



By Ariel Sharon







see pages 117 - 118


Arabs at war ,
arabs at war: Military effectiveness, 1948-1991
(studies in war, society, and the military
by kenneth m. Pollack



see page 380
page 380 of edward luttwak / dan horowitz book "the israeli army





http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8008/theisraeliarmybookcoverik7.jpg


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[NavyTimes]

That is quite a bit of hardware, thanks for posting.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

That is quite a bit of hardware, thanks for posting.

It is unique in the structuring and implementation, though General Sharon has written about the difficulties they faced to roll it over the last section
near to the edge.

Remarkably, that no many photos :: if at all ... had been published about it, except newly , particularly the one, that shows the taknks that pulled
it

As we know, pontons had been sigle elements, which are mounted on their transporting vehicle ... either tank or simlar..

It would be great , to have the feed back ....

In all cases, it was successful and the Aerial reconaisance, failed to discover it, though it was there months prior to the Yom Kippur war, as the Israelis have ÄpresuminglyÄ planned to cross the canal at that point
for many several enviromental reasons, that make the crossing easier



Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[Eye]

I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?

[Yahia Al Shaer]

I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?


Actually, you draw the attention to many points and raise a douple of questions

1 - You expressed your doubts , but not mentioning "doubts of what" ??

- If you doubt, that the bridge was THERE , lng time, prior to the crossing, then it is advisable to refer to the books mentioned and particularly to Gen. Sharon book

- If you doubt, the reason "why" it wasnt discovered by the Egyptian Air Reconaisance missions ... or Soviet espionage satalites .... so this is something else

2 - Regarding, consider the bridge, as not a defense HW, this is a good argument ... but it makes us come back to your first doubts remark

It is piculiar .... and no camouflage would have hidden it , particularly its
dimesions are huge ... and moving it across the last section to the yard, prepared for the crossing, raise additional questions and strengthens your doubts whatever they are

Pity, that we do not have "now" additionalphotos about it.

In all cases, it is a great achievement


Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[tanks_alot]

I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?

Every army needs to be prepared for every possible scenario and in case of another conflict with Egypt, it was quite obvious that it will be required to cross into Africa in order to subdue Egypt. doesn't really take a genius to figure that one out, correct?

If you are implying that the Arabs made a preemptive strike then you are going even against the Arab point of view of the war, where they have stated thier goals of taking back their lost land from the 1967 Six Day war.

You are also forgeting that the two sides didn't exactly sit peacefully for six years between the two wars, there was an attrition war in between, with both sides conducting raids.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Every army needs to be prepared for every possible scenario and in case of another conflict with Egypt, it was quite obvious that it will be required to cross into Africa in order to subdue Egypt. doesn't really take a genius to figure that one out, correct?

If you are implying that the Arabs made a preemptive strike then you are going even against the Arab point of view of the war, where they have stated thier goals of taking back their lost land from the 1967 Six Day war.

You are also forgeting that the two sides didn't exactly sit peacefully for six years between the two wars, there was an attrition war in between, with both sides conducting raids.

You are quite right

If "Eye" , would explain his points of views, it will definately assist shaping
an additional sccene

What is not understandable

1 - Why didnt the EG-Airforce discover that bridge befor its crossing

2 - Why wasnt it discovered, when thex first crossed the Suez Canal and had overcome the Bar Lev line ...

It was in the vinicity of the nearby so called Chinese Farm

You are right, regarding the 3 years War of Attrition fightings .... (July 1967 - Augst 1970)

I shall publish , some deparate topics about some of them



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer



Originally Posted by Eye http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4480237#post4480237)
I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?

[Eye]

I'm not implying anything. I'm just surprised a little bit. I have always heard that Yom Kippur war was started by unprovoked strike made by Arab countries and suddenly we have that complicated hardware. Hardware which could be useful only for somebody, who would plan to attack Egypt. It's ready to use months before war. Of course quite good explanation can be theory that attack is the best defence.
But it could also be that Egyptians knew about that bridge and that knowledge made them a bit more aggressive.

Don't take it offensive. It's just interesting to find out about something from first hand.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

I'm not implying anything. I'm just surprised a little bit. I have always heard that Yom Kippur war was started by unprovoked strike made by Arab countries and suddenly we have that complicated hardware. Hardware which could be useful only for somebody, who would plan to attack Egypt. It's ready to use months before war. Of course quite good explanation can be theory that attack is the best defence.
But it could also be that Egyptians knew about that bridge and that knowledge made them a bit more aggressive.

Don't take it offensive. It's just interesting to find out about something from first hand.


No worry,

It is an exchanging of thoughts and points of view ...

Be sure, that , there is no need for being offended , because we tray to find an understandable explanation during the course of our discussions

Not even, the slightest thought, that you are implying, alledging or assuming any thing.

Now to the facts ...

The bridge, had been there for months, prior the Yom Kippur... this means, that there had been a serious "planned intention" to cross the Suez Canal.

Taking into condsideration , the high costs to design, make and move the bridge, does imply ... an eventual crossing ...

This had not been a "Hit and Run" plan, but a steady intention to cross and secure the units , who will be the Bridge Heads .

Practiacally, a planned swift penetration and engulfing , destroying the defending missile wall , errected on the western side of the Suez Canal

In short, an operation to penetrate and occupy the area around the huge devresoir military base, after they have had implemented a quick preemptive attak and destroy helilanding.

Therefore, it is no wonder, that other thoughts, would pop up .. gradually due to recent images of different phases of that war

The question ... or assumption ... or doubts .... and thoughts ...


Was it really a surprise on Yom Kippur , or ist it possibly a preplanned and long term calculated "limited war", to finish the old status and bring peace to the area .... ????

Honestly, I am tending to accept that idea ...

Give every one , what they need of a cake ... Egypt a limited victory , Israel a calculated defeat, then turn the course .... then stop the war by USA as the strongest power to move things ahead in the area .. opposite to Russia ...

Then get USSR out of the Middle East .... and establish a new order, that will be followed, by a geochange of the map.

Limited sacrifice and loss of lives , for a definate peace between Egypt and Israel , which would be followed by other Arab states



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Kaplanr]

I'm not implying anything. I'm just surprised a little bit. I have always heard that Yom Kippur war was started by unprovoked strike made by Arab countries and suddenly we have that complicated hardware. Hardware which could be useful only for somebody, who would plan to attack Egypt. It's ready to use months before war. Of course quite good explanation can be theory that attack is the best defence.
But it could also be that Egyptians knew about that bridge and that knowledge made them a bit more aggressive.

Don't take it offensive. It's just interesting to find out about something from first hand.

Israeli conventional doctrine has always been "offensive", take the battle to the enemy, behind enemy lines as soon as possible. Yom Kippur was a surprise attack, but I'm not sure even the most jaded Israeli would call it unprovoked; we were sitting on about 60,000 square kilometers of Egyptian territory. That would provoke me were I Egyptian.

Israeli doctrine here should have been - absorb the blow, use the space and suck them in.

[GiladS]

Video footaged of the bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4SQ0KWlyE

It's importent to note that Sharon's division had already crossed and established a bridghead (using Pontoon bridges and Gillois amphibious tank-carriers) by the time this bridge, known as the 'Roller Bridge' (Gesher Haglilim), was in place (thus widening the bridgehead).



I have read an article some-time ago, in a military forum , that israel hasdeveloped and improved this bridge, to enlighten its weight and improve its field maneuverabilty, meet with the modern battlefield requirements and to make it a global military equipment for "export".

True...

http://www.nrg.co.il/images//archive/300x225/948/291.jpg

Improved 'Roller Bridge' used during a military exercise last year.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Thanks a lot for the video and the other info

The film show quite clear, its huge size as well as, the method, how it was covered by camouflages nests - later on -.

It is really , piculiar, how it was not discovered by the Egyptians ..not even byy infrared sensor cameras .... ????

Thanks for the newer photo of the bridge.

The mountains in the background, sgows that , they were not excersizing to cross the Suez Canal , because they have already enough experience....





Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[alexz]

Why not to post it in the yum Kippur war thread?

[GiladS]

Thanks for the newer photo of the bridge.


That's not the same bridge, the original is on display at the the Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Glilim_bridge_3-Latrun.JPG

The bridge from the recent exercise is an improved one based on the same concept.


It seems, they were not excersizing to cross the Suez Canal , because they have already enough experience.

Israel has no intention to operate on both banks of the Suez Canal, that's why we returned the Sinai as part of a peace agreement with Egypt.

However it's not to say that the IDF shouldn't train in this field as we may have to cross man made/natural obstacles in future possible campaigns in the north.

[Hollis]

I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?


You don't play chess do you? Thanks Tanks for explaining it.


Dr. Al Shaer, thank you for the post. Very good read.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

You don't play chess do you? Thanks Tanks for explaining it.


Dr. Al Shaer, thank you for the post. Very good read.


Thanks to you too and thanks to every one, for the objective discussions


Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Thanks GiladS for your valuable contribution ,

Actually, it seems, that we are documenting history ....

Would you please , publish the link , for the "Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun" ... if they publish more photos .... ???

Though, the images from the field, are more impressive

I have made a google search , in order to enrich this topic with additional photos and docs, but infortunately what I got is in Hebrew, and I do not
understand the language .... Therefore, have refrained, from searching, though it would be exreemly great , to document that "Rolling Bridge", as
it has assisted to change history ...

Would someone, help and enrich with other photos or images or topics ???


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer





That's not the same bridge, the original is on display at the the Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Glilim_bridge_3-Latrun.JPG

The bridge from the recent exercise is an improved one based on the same concept.



Israel has no intention to operate on both banks of the Suez Canal, that's why we returned the Sinai as part of a peace agreement with Egypt.

However it's not to say that the IDF shouldn't train in this field as we may have to cross man made/natural obstacles in future possible campaigns in the north.

[Bright Star]

I have some doubts. If that bridge was prepared a few months before Yom Kippur war and it definitely wasn't any kind of defensive hardware - was that war defensive or aggressive from the Israeli point of view?
That's true..
Israel planned a new aggression against both Egypt and Syria like what happened in 1967.
Elazar said that Dayan planned to annex parts of Lebanon and southern Syria, and to establish a defensive line in the north and along the Jordan river, it was called operation 'Black Belt', Gamassy wrote about it too in his memoirs.
Dayan also planned to cross the canal, occupy the west bank of Suez to reopen the canal, and to capture the oil refineries at the gulf of Suez, he expected to crush the Egyptian army and to reach the nile river within hours.
The same information could be found in an israeli books published in 2005, it is authored by some Mossad officers, the book also denies the theory of the 'Surprise', saying the it was only an excuse to the IDF's failure during the war.

Here is a link to the Israeli book..
http://www.text.org.il/index.php?book=0510113

And some information about the book for arab readers..
http://www.aawsat.com/details.asp?issueno=10424&article=423399

Actually, Egypt's assault against Israel in 1973, was a preemptive attack.


Was it really a surprise on Yom Kippur , or ist it possibly a preplanned and long term calculated "limited war", to finish the old status and bring peace to the area .... ????

Give every one , what they need of a cake ... Egypt a limited victory , Israel a calculated defeat, then turn the course .... then stop the war by USA as the strongest power to move things ahead in the area .. opposite to Russia ...
Science fiction???? :)

[GiladS]

Would you please , publish the link , for the "Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun" ... if they publish more photos .... ???


The photo isn't from the official site.

Also I regret to say that the English version of the site is currently down.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/1/17/Yom_Kippur_bridge1.jpg

[Yahia Al Shaer]

That's true..
Israel planned a new aggression against both Egypt and Syria like what happened in 1967.
Elazar said that Dayan planned to annex parts of Lebanon and southern Syria, and to establish a defensive line in the north and along the Jordan river, it was called operation 'Black Belt', Gamassy wrote about it too in his memoirs.
Dayan also planned to cross the canal, occupy the west bank of Suez to reopen the canal, and to capture the oil refineries at the gulf of Suez, he expected to crush the Egyptian army and to reach the nile river within hours.
The same information could be found in an israeli books published in 2005, it is authored by some Mossad officers, the book also denies the theory of the 'Surprise', saying the it was only an excuse to the IDF's failure during the war.

Here is a link to the Israeli book..
http://www.text.org.il/index.php?book=0510113

And some information about the book for arab readers..
http://www.aawsat.com/details.asp?issueno=10424&article=423399

Actually, Egypt's assault against Israel in 1973, was a preemptive attack.




It was known and anticipated, (during the years of the Egyptian War of Attrition) that Israel , would take such a step to reopen the Suez Canal

This was, one of the additional and important elements, to evacuate the inhabitants majority of the Suez Canal towns, particularly Port Said , Port Fouad (because of missing the necessary geographical manauverabilty) ... - remember the Anglo-French invasion of Port Said and Port Fouad during 1956 -

It is militarly known, that the suez Canal area and zone, have their pro and contra military arguments

1 - Occupying the Suez Canal Area , would never prevail because of the counter resistance and very negative impacts on the occupying forces.

- The Israeli forces, were so overstreched, prior to the October war, and the days after the Israeli crossing , have proven this fact .... despite engulfing the third army units on the eastern side of the Suez Canal

- The area and the Egyptians have substancial experience in Fedayeen operations , since the Brits had been in the Suez Canal Zone

- Countermeasures, had been taken and implemented to face an eventual operation

2 - If Israel , would have proceeded to Cairo (which have a massive propaganda impact) , it would have thinned its lines , and would have become very vulnerable ....

- This as well had been (hoped) ... and remember the streching line between Suez and Cairo, exceeds 100 KM ... consequentlly, a very welcome step for the Fedayeen counter attacks

You need to see what happened in the vast areas any where ... and the massive reaction of the Egyptian militia would had been very fatal to those foreign occupying forces

3 - Cairo inhabitants were more the 10 Million persons , at that time ... Israel was around 3 Millions ... Egypt was more than 60 Million persons

The Egyptian militias were more than 3 Millions ... the army conspripts were more tha 1.5 Millions , the vets were more than 5 Millions ...

Even when thousands od them are killed ... this loss can never be omapared with killing tens of Israeli soliers ...

Then , you have to consider every element , in overstreching an Army
starting from supply chains till logistics and accomodation ... all the necessary infrastructuring etc etc etc

The Israeli patrols in the major towns let us take only Cairo ... Suez .... Ismailia ... Port Said and forget the villages and others ... and how would you differenciate between a civilain and a militia or fedayeen or army personnel dressed in civil

When we talk about the Area from Port Said to Qantara ... you ought to remember what the British (Commander of the Allied Forces 1956) Generals
Stockwell and General Keightly have said ....

It is a bottle neck ...

Remeber , Operation Verdict , planned by the French General Massu , 1956 to proceed to Cairo ....

So ... this would had been a welcome trap ...

Therefore, was the evacuation

Therefore as well , your following comment , would apply




Science fiction???? :)


But difficult to implement ...



Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Thanks GiladS for that phote.

Pity, I do not understand what is written in Hebrew on the two signs.

Can you please or any one else , tell me what is on them .

I think they are from different military organisations / units and are dedicated to them (because of the colors)

It will be really great, when you further enrich this topic with your phots and comments

How impressive, history could be, when discussed without emotions but facts and objectivity



Dr: Yahia Al Shaer


The photo isn't from the official site.

Also I regret to say that the English version of the site is currently down.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/1/17/Yom_Kippur_bridge1.jpg

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Originally Posted by GiladS http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4487263#post4487263)
That's not the same bridge, the original is on display at the the Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun.
......
..........
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Glilim_bridge_3-Latrun.JPG
.......

The bridge from the recent exercise is an improved one based on the same concept.
[/QUOTE]

Comparing precizely that photo , with those photos , will show, that it is presumingly, the first prototype of that bridge

The structure on them , do differ and the improved one, was implemented and consequentlly used to cross the Suez Canal ...




Israel has no intention to operate on both banks of the Suez Canal, that's why we returned the Sinai as part of a peace agreement with Egypt.

However it's not to say that the IDF shouldn't train in this field as we may have to cross man made/natural obstacles in future possible campaigns in the north.




No one, would know for sure, what the future would bring ...

The region is charactaristiclly known with its surprises ... preemptive or counter operations, are the basis of life .... there ....

Therefore "unless the person belongs to the closest informed circle", no person can say for guranted, what would happen

Thanks to you, in any case


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

Thanks GiladS for that phote.

Pity, I do not understand what is written in Hebrew on the two signs.

Can you please or any one else , tell me what is on them .

I think they are from different military organisations / units and are dedicated to them (because of the colors)


The sign on the right says: "Passage for tracked and 4x4 vehicles".

The sign on the left says: "Johnny Bridge".

Most probably the red and black colors represent the Engineering Corps though today these are the colors of Artillery Corps while the Engineering Corps flag colors are orange and black.

Either it only seems to be red and it was actually orange or they didn't have the orange color to paint it properly or maybe back then the flag colors were different, I'm not sure.

As for the name given to the bridge, it was named after Lieutenant Colonel Aharon Tena Z"L (his nickname was 'Johnny') who commanded the engineering forces on the southern front and was killed during the efforts to cross the canal and establish a bridgehead.



How impressive, history could be, when discussed without emotions but facts and objectivity

I concour.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Thanks a lot "GiladS" for your response and explanation .

Actually, I made google search for both together "'Roller Bridge' (Gesher Haglilim)" , and indivedually, though not knowing what "Gesher Haglilim" means but assume it is Hebrew

The result for (Gesher Haglilim) was all israeli sites in Hebrew ...., that was the second time, wishing, I knew the language ....

The first time, was , when publishing the other Topic / Thread about the "Sinking the Israeli DD Eilat ", and some one, told me to lo log to a site , for the names of victims... it was in Hebrew as well .

Thanks again



Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

20th Century Battlefields - 1973 Yom Kippur War part 6 (about Sharon's canal crossing):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHpzPCGp1Ek

[Yahia Al Shaer]

20th Century Battlefields - 1973 Yom Kippur War part 6 (about Sharon's canal crossing):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHpzPCGp1Ek


Simply saying THANK YOU GiladS is not enough,

You are really fantastic,

Your enrichments to this topic are great ..... obove all , you create a spirit / sense, of discovering something new, with every response ... and you make me anxcious to see the next lines and comments from you.

If we succeed in showing those single photos , which are at the beginning of the video, this would be complement what we discuss...

To give you a hint , the next topic will be , the Israeli crossing ..., where I shall add the available maps ...

Once again, lots of thanks to you



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

Simply saying THANK YOU GiladS is not enough,

You are really fantastic,

Your enrichments to this topic are great ..... obove all , you create a spirit / sense, of discovering something new, with every response ... and you make me anxcious to see the next lines and comments from you.

If we succeed in showing those single photos , which are at the beginning of the video, this would be complement what we discuss...

To give you a hint , the next topic will be , the Israeli crossing ..., where I shall add the available maps ...

Once again, lots of thanks to you



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

Thanks mate, I would also like to thank you for bringning up these interesting topics.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Comming back, to my amazement , which I can not overcome or understand "HOW the Egyptian Aerial Reconnaissance and Surveillance flights , failed to recognize that Roller Bridge", following are photos taken by the British Canberas over Port Said during the first days of November 1956, prior to the Para - and Amphebian Landings

We should take into consideration, that the techniques had been developed during the 18 years, that followed the date of these images both lenses and senstivity and precizion.

The first image , shows the southern part of Port Said internal basins Sherif and Abbas , as well as the Navy House HQ m and the Suez Canal Authority Hq and we see the internal canal , for the British CRMs 45 and Heli-Landing and the CRMs 40 and 42 amphibian landing on Tuesday 06 Novembar 1956., as well as advancing through the blocked Suez Canal passage way

We notice the clarity of details, so that we can see some boats in the suez canal

The second image, shows a further part, southern of Port Fouad, where the French Paras have landed and later a targeted advance target for the French amphibian landing on Monday 05 Novembar 1956 and Tuesday 06 Novembar 1956

The third image, is preparing the plan of the drop zone for the Britisha Paras on Monday 05 Novembar 1956


The fourth one, is of the beach area, dedicated for the British CRMs 40 and 42 amphibian landing on Tuesday 06 Novembar 1956


The last one, is of the city Port Said its self

I wish, I had some Areal Photos of that Israeli Roller Bridge in Sinai ...

It does not matter, if they were taken by Satalite or Israeli Reconnaisance and Survilance Aircarft.

Dr: Yahia Al Shaer



http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1773/sz0270.jpg


http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8985/sz0266.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7262/sz0262.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1411/sz0269.jpg



http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9159/sz0267.jpg

[Ought Six]

So I assume the deployment of such a bridge requires building a road down to the water's edge where the bank is suitably graded, then dragging the bridge forward down that road towards the water using tanks and/or engineering vehicles alongside the bridge with tow ropes. I assume that once the bridge is in the water, warping tugs are needed to guide the end of the bridge to the correct location on the other bank before it is secured in place.

Does anyone have a detailed description of the bridge deployment procedure? And does anyone know how long it took to move the bridge to the bank of the canal, and then deploy it?

[GiladS]

So I assume the deployment of such a bridge requires building a road down to the water's edge where the bank is suitably graded, then dragging the bridge forward down that road towards the water using tanks and/or engineering vehicles alongside the bridge with tow ropes.

That's the thing, there wasn't an adequate road and the bridge wasn't designed to take the punishment of the Sinai dunes and at one point it split into two and had to be repaired. It was also never originally planned that the bridge would be transported this way over more than 3km (when in fact it was transported over 17km).

Also because of the the size of the bridge it couldn't have been diverted to another route while the route it was on was blocked by Egyptian forces. Thus the IDF had to capture the area held by the Egyptians and this was one of the bloodiest battles of the war (known as the 'Battle of Chinese Farm').


I assume that once the bridge is in the water, warping tugs are needed to guide the end of the bridge to the correct location on the other bank before it is secured in place.


No, the main advantage of the bridge's design was that it only had to be pushed into the canal and it would roll in and guide itself across to the other bank while a ramp at the other end ensured passage over any obstacle on the other side.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/513/4311or.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/4311or.jpg/)
An improved version of the original 'roller bridge' as it is pushed into a canal during an IDF exercise in 2008.



And does anyone know how long it took to move the bridge to the bank of the canal, and then deploy it?

It took 2-3 days, they started to move the bridge on the 17th of October and it was in place and ready on the 19th at 1:00am.

[T.S.C.Plage]

Check the following video from 2:22 on. It shows the deployment of the bridge and some tanks crossing it.

http://www.youtube.com/v/6zFJSwHb7uE

As it looks it doesn't needs any guidance from boats to get deployed.

[GiladS]

Found some more pictures of the recent IDF exercise with the 'roller bridge' (2007-2008?) on Fresh.co.il.

Should give an idea of how the placing of the original bridge went...

http://mazi.idf.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/1866.jpg

http://mazi.idf.il/sip_storage/FILES/4/1884.jpg

http://mazi.idf.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/1886.jpg

http://mazi.idf.il/sip_storage/FILES/8/1888.jpg

[GiladS]

Check the following video from 2:22 on. It shows the deployment of the bridge and some tanks crossing it.

http://www.youtube.com/v/6zFJSwHb7uE

As it looks it doesn't needs any guidance from boats to get deployed.

Excellent find!

Though the Engineer Corps anthem gets on my nerves.... p-)

[T.S.C.Plage]

Excellent find!
And that without knowing what Handasa Kravi meant. ;)

Btw, you can find some more Latrun pics if you search for "Glilim bridge" at Google.

/edit: A little more...

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2711/gesherglilim01.jpg

http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=32070&highlight=%E8%F0%F7+%E2%E9%F9%E5%F8

This time I searched for גלילים גשר (Glilim Gesher) which should mean something like "cylinders bridge" if I'm not mistaken.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

So I assume the deployment of such a bridge requires building a road down to the water's edge where the bank is suitably graded, then dragging the bridge forward down that road towards the water using tanks and/or engineering vehicles alongside the bridge with tow ropes. I assume that once the bridge is in the water, warping tugs are needed to guide the end of the bridge to the correct location on the other bank before it is secured in place.

Does anyone have a detailed description of the bridge deployment procedure? And does anyone know how long it took to move the bridge to the bank of the canal, and then deploy it?



That's the thing, there wasn't an adequate road and the bridge wasn't designed to take the punishment of the Sinai dunes and at one point it split into two and had to be repaired. It was also never originally planned that the bridge would be transported this way over more than 3km (when in fact it was transported over 17km).

Also because of the the size of the bridge it couldn't have been diverted to another route while the route it was on was blocked by Egyptian forces. Thus the IDF had to capture the area held by the Egyptians and this was one of the bloodiest battles of the war (known as the 'Battle of Chinese Farm').


No, the main advantage of the bridge's design was that it only had to be pushed into the canal and it would roll in and guide itself across to the other bank while a ramp at the other end ensured passage over any obstacle on the other side.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/513/4311or.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/4311or.jpg/)
An improved version of the original 'roller bridge' as it is pushed into a canal during an IDF exercise in 2008.


It took 2-3 days, they started to move the bridge on the 17th of October and it was in place and ready on the 19th at 1:00am.




It is so impresing, to read, see all these photos and watch the Video ...

I am really, speechless.

Never the less, we have a very detailed historical documenting of the events, in his worth reading book " Ariel Sharon, Warrior."


He details , how the idea began, how and where it was tested, rehearsed the whole operation, how and where a ramp was prepared for , how it was towed, and how the roads were prepared to carry the heavy weight of the 600 ton roller bridge .. and no one beleives it

1- August 1970, was the begin of Gen. Sharons idea of an Isreaeli Croosing of the Suez Canal ( two locations were invisied at Kantara and Ismailia , a third crossing location was selected and later was the actual place .... Deversoir , north of great bitter lake)

2 - He concentrated his water-assault crossing equipments ,near Baluza ( about 20 KM east of Kantara ), rafts, bridging equipment, heavy engineering gear and every thing he needs for the crossing operation

3 - He used, a former ramp, built long time ago by the Egyptians, during the 1967s , for a project and he had implemented mny improvements work to its structur, i.e hardend and widened the floor , prtotecting the area, thinning the present sand barrier .... in fact, he had improved it .

4 - Almost thousand yards in length and several hundred in breadth, wide roads going in one side and out the other to facilitate traffic .... etc etc to serve as a protected staging area for bridging equipment troops , and tanks and to be the crossing point other be capable of sustaining that 600 ton heavy weight roller bridge

5- It was tested in the center of Sinai near Abu Egeila ... where an old dam, to halt water was constructed by a British

6 - Mrs Golda Meir, General Moshe Dayan and other Israeli high command officers had attended the presentation and were impressed and started to back Gen. Sharons "VISION" of an Israeli Crossing of the Suez Canal

7 - The roller bridge, was there "complete" for deployment ... FIVE MONTHS prior to the implementation day ....

8 - The bridging equipment was assembled behind Hamadia , and prepareations were made to tow it forward and move it from the rear areas to the ramp ready for crossing operation, by using 16 of Haims Erezs tanks (see photos)

The towing was tedious and delicate process, since the bridge could onlymove in a straight line and was unable to cope with variations in terrain.

Genral Sharon , had published lots of thos detailes in a dedicated chapter in his book (chapter 22 from page 306 - 333 , and dealt with the 1973 Israeli crossing 310 - 317 , 327 , 338 - 339 ), with very impressive deatails and maps ....

He also wrote some other pages in his book, whic all together, form a real story for itself.

Due to that number of pages, I beleive, the best thing to do, is to scan those pages and publish them withing this topic, for fear of losing little, but important details of the implementation of that operation, such as the problems they faced , the Egyptian resistance they had expected but never came, the severe and tough ones he faced and costed his troops lots of deaths and casaulties ... the un vorseen battle field developments wit a personal touch of own emotions ...
???? , the surprises , the disappointments , the developments and so on.

Therfore, as this topic is developing to be a detailed documenting of the ISRAELI CROSSING , which I shall splement with another thread "The Israeli Crossing and PENETRATION at Deversoir" , it is useful to publish
General Ariel Sharons abovementioned pages.

Now, the other side of the coin, is , due to the fact, that my scanner had stopped funciong todays morning, while I was beginning to take the images of those pages, who would like to help and do their scanning and publishing (if he has this book) or get those pages ....

Otherwise, when this is OK, they will be "simply" photographed and published.....?????


We really need, to complement the issue




Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[T.S.C.Plage]

I think you're somehow overestimating this type of bridge. Following some quotes about it.


I carry with warmth my 48 years as member of the Knesset, and shall never forget my initial shock when, in the War of Independence, an important military officer reported that we were left with ammunition sufficient for only five days of battle. Nor will I forget our crestfallen faces when the Glilim Bridge did not function at the crucial moment during the Yom Kippur war and all seemed lost. I carry with me the bitter taste of disappointments stemming from our failed efforts to make peace, or balance the economy.

Part of an address by President Shimon Peres at the Opening of the 18th Knesset on 24th February 2009.


Why MAKHNAR (?) added footage of the largest fiasco of the engineering corps ever: the roller bridge?

A comment from an Isreali moderator at Stealbeasts.com related to the video I posted.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

I think you're somehow overestimating this type of bridge. Following some quotes about it.





I carry with warmth my 48 years as member of the Knesset, and shall never forget my initial shock when, in the War of Independence, an important military officer reported that we were left with ammunition sufficient for only five days of battle. Nor will I forget our crestfallen faces when the Glilim Bridge did not function at the crucial moment during the Yom Kippur war and all seemed lost. I carry with me the bitter taste of disappointments stemming from our failed efforts to make peace, or balance the economy.

Part of an address by President Shimon Peres at the Opening of the 18th Knesset on 24th February 2009.





Why MAKHNAR (?) added footage of the largest fiasco of the engineering corps ever: the roller bridge?

A comment from an Isreali moderator at Stealbeasts.com related to the video I posted.






Of course, your lines are important, particularly wehn GeneralShimon Perez mentions that, because he knows very well , what he is talking about .... though he is the President, but he is a very able General with long years of War experience

Ther is one particular view, in the video you embeded here (see # 31) of the bridge, while the Israeli Tanks were crossing the Suez Canal (2:24)

It was not stable ... a sort of swaying and waving ...

Well,

The main objective of my topic, not to ceitisize its structur. or functionality or what else, not only because I am not an engineer, but also and most important of all,

1 - If such a discussion should happen , then this ought to be done, by those , who had used it and who knows it quite well . This means Israeli fellows

2 - Engineers and alike or specialzed soldiers ... sagers etc

The fact, is that, ..... it was not discovered by the Egyptians during their reconnaissance and survilance flights

This roller bridge, will always remain as a unique structure.



Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

Of course, your lines are important, particularly wehn GeneralShimon Perez mentions that, because he knows very well , what he is talking about .... though he is the President, but he is a very able General with long years of War experience


I believe you are mistaken, Peres has always served Israel as a statesman.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

I believe you are mistaken, Peres has always served Israel as a statesman.

Sorry, but no

You ought to refer to the 1956 war , the 1967 war

He is the general, who had negotiated in October 1956, Severe France , along with Ben Gorion and Gen. Moshe Dayan, the conditions, for Israels involvement in the Tripartite war

He had set the preconditions as well , that France helps Israel in its Atom- Nuclear project , began in Dimona ... the conditions, that France would send squadrons of Myster 4 Fighters to cover the sky over Israel , the
conditions that the French Cruiser Georges Lygos , the two destroyers Kersant and Bouver , would protect the shore and Israel and to participate in Bombarding Abu Egeila ..

He had as well effectively participated in the 1967 war

Her is really the FOX .... general ... but had a gard luck , when he left service to the party and engage politically

You know as well, that a number of the Israeli Presidents were former generals i.e Airforce General Ezzar weismann, Army General Shimon Perez ...

May be, you would google search him, "general shimon perez" or "general perez" or wikipedia him , and you will find a lot of info .... even within the official Israeli sites and domains abbout the Israeli presidents and the Israeli Military history


By the way, he and General Sharon were known to be strong adversaries "competitors", this was evident during the last 50 years and more m particularly after the 1956 war



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

Sorry, but no

You ought to refer to the 1956 war , the 1967 war

He is the general, who had negotiated in October 1956, Severe France , along with Ben Gorion and Gen. Moshe Dayan, the conditions, for Israels involvement in the Tripartite war

He had set the preconditions as well , that France helps Israel in its Atom- Nuclear project , began in Dimona ... the conditions, that France would send squadrons of Myster 4 Fighters to cover the sky over Israel , the
conditions that the French Cruiser Georges Lygos , the two destroyers Kersant and Bouver , would protect the shore and Israel and to participate in Bombarding Abu Egeila ..

He had as well effectively participated in the 1967 war

Her is really the FOX .... general ... but had a gard luck , when he left service to the party and engage politically

You know as well, that a number of the Israeli Presidents were former generals i.e Airforce General Ezzar weismann, Army General Shimon Perez ...

May be, you would google search him, "general shimon perez" or "general perez" or wikipedia him , and you will find a lot of info .... even within the official Israeli sites and domains abbout the Israeli presidents and the Israeli Military history


By the way, he and General Sharon were known to be strong adversaries "competitors", this was evident during the last 50 years and more m particularly after the 1956 war



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

Peres's part in Israel's conflicts and the building of Israel's military might was restricted only to the negotiation tables and the administrative aspects.

I can see you point that was heavily involved in security matters however he never actually led soldiers on the battlefield or held a rank for that matter, as Sharon did. However both men contributed a lot to Israel's security and we owe them a great debt.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Peres's part in Israel's conflicts and the building of Israel's military might was restricted only to the negotiation tables and the administrative aspects.

I can see you point that was heavily involved in security matters however he never actually led soldiers on the battlefield or held a rank for that matter, as Sharon did. However both men contributed a lot to Israel's security and we owe them a great debt.

You know, of my book "The Other Side of the Coin"..., and you might have visited my web domains , consequently know, my age .... I am 71 years old, which means in term, that during those past decades, I have not only witnessed the uprising and decling of many Israeli personalities read a lot about certain personalities , who have contribbuted to change the course of events on our globe .... as well as the Middle East destiny.

Talking of Israel, there are some famous personalities, who have really contributed to a substancial part of its present status , image and strong military power of course

The following names, have filled the news papers and news with their
comments, points of view, longings , dreams and visions , Ben Gorion, Mrs Golda Meir, Gen. Moshe Dayan of course at the most advanced front

Gen. Sharon, Gen. Azar , Gen Isaaq Rabin , Gen Peres and all others , whom I do not recall their names at this moment

But Gen. Shimon Peres , the so called "Fox", ought to be named "Father of the Israeli Atom Project" ... because , it was his insistance and stuborness during the Sevre negotiations, that had boosted that project.... nd it was he, who was behind many Franco-Israeli milestone copperations

Indeed, he was not, the brilliant military shaping figure within the others around him, and may be he was not the strongest impressive personality , but as it seems, he is cleaner of scandals, than some other politicians .

He is an easier to go person ... and have a touch of modesty compared to
other politicians

By all means, he belongs to the first generation, who have buils present Israel ... and there are not many left.... by now now


Dr Yahia Al Shaer

[T.S.C.Plage]

Of course, your lines are important, particularly wehn GeneralShimon Perez mentions that, because he knows very well , what he is talking about .... though he is the President, but he is a very able General with long years of War experience

Ther is one particular view, in the video you embeded here (see # 31) of the bridge, while the Israeli Tanks were crossing the Suez Canal (2:24)

It was not stable ... a sort of swaying and waving ...

Well,

The main objective of my topic, not to ceitisize its structur. or functionality or what else, not only because I am not an engineer, but also and most important of all,

1 - If such a discussion should happen , then this ought to be done, by those , who had used it and who knows it quite well . This means Israeli fellows

2 - Engineers and alike or specialzed soldiers ... sagers etc

The fact, is that, ..... it was not discovered by the Egyptians during their reconnaissance and survilance flights

This roller bridge, will always remain as a unique structure.

Dr: Yahia Al Shaer
You're refering to Shimon Peres as General and suggest to wikipedia him in a later post. I did and here's what wiki says about him at this part.


Military and defense

In 1947, Peres joined the Haganah, the predecessor of the Israel Defense Forces. David Ben-Gurion made him responsible for personnel and arms purchases. In 1952, he was appointed Deputy Director General of the Ministry of Defense, and in 1953, at the age of 29, became the youngest ever Director General of the Ministry of Defense. He was involved in arms purchases and establishing strategic alliances that were important for the State of Israel. Owing to Peres' mediation, Israel acquired the advanced Dassault Mirage III French jet fighter, established the Dimona nuclear reactor and entered into a tri-national agreement with France and the United Kingdom to initiate the 1956 Suez Crisis.
If you do a Google search for "General Shimon Peres" the only related connection that turns up is that he was "Defense Ministry Director-General" which infact means that he was the General Director of the MoD and not a General. You also won't find any pics of him wearing an Uniform with the rank of General which I guess you should if he ever had this rank.

With your points 1 and 2 you want to say that everybody else besides Israeli engineers and tankdrivers who worked with this type of bridge shouldn't discuss about this topic? If so I wish you good luck in finding somebody here to discuss with. If not why do you think an Israeli "fellow" which maybe never saw this bridge or even knows about it is more predestinated then anybody else here to talk about it?

Besides that it is ok for you that I dig up all the additonal infos about the bridge you or even Hebrew speaking people couldn't come up with and then want me to not comment on this bridge? That's just ridiculous!

Infact I don't know about your ambitions/means on this topic but checking your Geocities page which I did before you mentioned your book doesn't helps me to see any clearer.

Einen schönen Tag noch Herr Doktor! *

* German for: Have a nice day doctor!

[Ought Six]

Thanks to everyone who provided more info on this thread. Great stuff!

[Yahia Al Shaer]

You're refering to Shimon Peres as General and suggest to wikipedia him in a later post. I did and here's what wiki says about him at this part.


If you do a Google search for "General Shimon Peres" the only related connection that turns up is that he was "Defense Ministry Director-General" which infact means that he was the General Director of the MoD and not a General. You also won't find any pics of him wearing an Uniform with the rank of General which I guess you should if he ever had this rank.

With your points 1 and 2 you want to say that everybody else besides Israeli engineers and tankdrivers who worked with this type of bridge shouldn't discuss about this topic? If so I wish you good luck in finding somebody here to discuss with. If not why do you think an Israeli "fellow" which maybe never saw this bridge or even knows about it is more predestinated then anybody else here to talk about it?

Besides that it is ok for you that I dig up all the additonal infos about the bridge you or even Hebrew speaking people couldn't come up with and then want me to not comment on this bridge? That's just ridiculous!

Infact I don't know about your ambitions/means on this topic but checking your Geocities page which I did before you mentioned your book doesn't helps me to see any clearer.

Einen schönen Tag noch Herr Doktor! *

* German for: Have a nice day doctor!

Erstens (First),

LANGSAM ....

Though it means slowly, but this means , as Germans use this expression ....TAKE IT EASY ....


Zweitens (Second),

Man braucht NICHT als beleidigte Wurste zu reagieren


This is typical German and means in short, there is no need to react so. This means as well (no need to be offended)

Drittens (Third),

Definately , you have contributed with good stuf, but you ought NOT to assume what others think .

If you want to discuss the functionality of the bridge, it is up to you.

Due to the fact, that I am Egyptian, my comments on its funtionality would sound one sided, therefore , and would end in heated discussions,
which would not help the issue and is not my style .

Other allegations are out of place


WE , who discuss this issue, have shown objectivity during the course of discussions, although there are Israelis and an Arab and me Egyptian ...

I do not know what about you ??? , may be German or Arab living in Germany , but it does not matter and it make no difference , because we all try to deal with an issue, that deserved that attention

Vielleicht, hier schauen

http://www.geocities.com/yahia_al_shaer/OSoC-Sevres-Protocol.htm

as part of

http://yahiaalshaer.bravehost.com/BRITISH/


Finally,

If my book helps YOU or NOT, it is YOUR business, and not mine.....

My book deals with 1956 War , not with 1973 Yum Kippur War ... This is evident and clear from the Cover and its title

"The Other Side of the Coin, Suez War 1956"

When you expected there, to read 1973 Yum Kippur War, you ought to fetch my topics about it they and other topics, maps and comments related to that war , the War of Attrition 1967 - 1970 and the Sixday 1967 War , are in Arabic , until this moment

You can as well , make a search here or in google
regarding Englishi topics, and you will find some of mine

I have just begun, to publish these topics in englis, both here and in other forum as well

Alles Gute

That is german and means , all the bbest


By the way, if you dont know, I have also studied in Germany and am living there too .... consequenttly, to save your translations to english .... you see that in my personal profile here and every where


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Thanks to everyone who provided more info on this thread. Great stuff!

Indeed , the info provided not only the photos but also the video films
have contributed to a buils a better idea about the Roller Bridge.

The last viedeo , supplied by T.S.C.Plage was impressive, and had shown
the instabbility even the dangers of this bridge, faced during its utilization

How it moved in high waves , below the weight of tanks


This explains the , signs at the entrance of the bridge, which photo was published and explained by GiladS

(for details , refer to # 19)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4487512&postcount=19

(for details , refer to # 23)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4488886&postcount=23

Shockeing, were the statements, published by T.S.C.Plage , of President " Gen." Shimon Peres evaluation / verdict / judgment of the bridge functionality and referring to this publicly as mentioned

How, truth pops up , and how civil courage contributes to document history

So, I would like tp share your lines and thank every one without any exception for their valuable responses, commenting lines , photos and videos


Dr: Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

The following lines, by T.S.C.Plage, would urge to discuss other charactaristics and topics related to the Roller Bridge, critics regarding its functionality and the fulfulling its objectives.

Due to the fact, that I am Egyptian, and my eventual participation in such criticism, might sound onesided , or I therefore, would encourage his suggested "discussion of tecnicallity and funcionality etc " for all , with no exception.

Of course, the participation of engineers or vets or someone who might have utilized it, will enrich the topic ....

So, it is up to the members to discuss those elements or not, because the objective is to keep objective



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer



..
......
.....
..
With your points 1 and 2 you want to say that everybody else besides Israeli engineers and tankdrivers who worked with this type of bridge shouldn't discuss about this topic? If so I wish you good luck in finding somebody here to discuss with. If not why do you think an Israeli "fellow" which maybe never saw this bridge or even knows about it is more predestinated then anybody else here to talk about it?

[Yahia Al Shaer]

The following photo, shows , the Israeli plan to cross the Suez Canal and penetrate and encircle the Egyptian positions in the vinicity.

It was taken during a presentation "persumigly by General Ariel Sharon" in an advanced tent, for the Israeli High Command.





http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3541/zz47794ix31.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3541/zz47794ix31.jpg)


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

a photo , of the advanced front command room, where the previous map
to be seen on the wall, during the Israeli commanders avaluation of front "status quo" situation




http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8231/93880141.jpg


A map, from the book "Arabs at war"



http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6585/deversoir73.jpg




Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

The following maps and photos, are published within the threads related to the roller bridge .

Unfortunately, I do not understand Hebrew, and therefore ,am asking all, whether someone , would translate the following maps and their comments , into English, so that we may all understand , what is on them

The source is

http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=42096


Thanks in advance



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer









http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/03/18/70744225.jpghttp://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/03/18/40928895.jpg



הנה תצלום אויר אלכסוני משנת 1971 של אזור החווה הסינית. הוספתי כתוביות (תוכנת ה- PE שלי לא מאפשרת כתיבה בעברית). לצורך התמצאות טובה יותר הוספתי קו מרחק בצדה השמאלי ועליו ציינתי את המרחק - פחות או יותר). מכיון שהתמונה אלכסונית זה איננו קנה מידה לכל התמונה, והוא אינדיקטיבי בלבד.

אפשר בקלות לזהות מחפורות טנקים ורק"ם שכוחותנו הכינו (פונים מערבה) בתקופת מלחמת ההתשה. אגב - אזור החווה היה אחד האזורים הבודדים הקרובים לתעלה - שסוללת העפר שהקים צה"ל לאורך התעלה - לא הסתירה. הסיבה אינה ברורה לי - אולם כך היה. בהתשה, היו צליפות וירי מרגמות תכופים על אזור החווה ועל כביש התעלה שבין החווה למים. עוד שאלה שאין לה מענה בהקשר לאזור הזה.

עד כמה שידוע לי (ובזמנו בררתי) לא היו (באוקטובר 73) בידי המפקדים הלוחמים בשטח תמונות באיכות כזו. תצ"א מגובה רב לא עזרה אז (ולאחר שיכפולה בפוטוסטט כמעט וחסרה ערך טקטי...). אינני מאשים כאן איש - צה"ל לא היה מוכן למלחמה הנוראה הזאת - וכלי עזר כאלה (ובמקור התמונה ברורה הרבה יותר) לא סופקו ליחידות הלוחמות. ואני חייב להעיר שגם בדרג הפיקוד (חטיבה - אוגדה) האחראי על הקרב לא עשו שימוש של ממש בעזרים אלה.

ואני חוזר לשאלה (חידה) ששאלתי במקור - מניין השם "חווה סינית".... ??



http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/03/18/45622352.gif







Was this phot of General Sharon, while briefing , prior to the operation Gazelle
http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/03/20/67982599.jpg






תעלות ההשקיה חוצות גם את ציר עכביש !!! לא דברתי כאן על תעלות טרטור , בהן אתם רבצתם .

זוהי הבעיה שאתה דוחה על הסף.. הרי לא הזכרתי את טרטור !! אלא את תעלות ההשקייה שבין מתג 50 , למתג 51 על ציר עכביש !!!
ומשם הגיחו חיילי קומנדו מצריים ודפקו כלים על עכביש .

תרשים קרב גדס"ר 87 מה 16 לחודש - שים לב לציר החולות - עליו גם נעו הדוברות(רחוק מאוד מעכביש) :


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/04/05/21043600.jpg

קרב בלימה (קרב משום הפגעותם של כלים בן היתר על ציר עכביש) ב16 בבוקר של שארית הגדס"ר שישב מעט מזרחה למצמד :


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/04/05/71175466.jpg


ושוב , עשרות חיילים נהרגו כתוצאה ממארבי טילים וחי"ר על ציר עכביש , בעובדותיך אתה מנסה לרמוז שמותם היה כתוצאה מארטלריה - לא ולא , הם נהרגו במארבי חי"ר ובהסתערויות סהרוריות , עשרות מחיילי הקומנדו המצריים פשוט נדרסו .

אני באמת לא מבין אותך .... הרי נגמ"ש השמונה היה רק דוגמא , והזכרתי זאת !!!
אם ציר עכביש באמת היה פתוח - למה רצו להחזיר את הכוחות מהגדה המערבית ??? הבעיה - לא היה ציר אספקה!! ציר עכביש נחסם , שיירות אספקה וחימוש (באחת מהן היה אבי) נפגעו קשות , ואפילו לא הצליחו לעבור ..

ולטעון שמי שהיה שם ממציא סיפורים ... נו באמת , אני לא אתייחס לזה .
מה שירית במשך 17 שעות , אבי ירה בשעה מהמק"כ עליו היה מופקד , וזאת בלי לספר על הקרבות מראשית המלחמה , ועל עשרות חבריו שרק נירם מאיר את דרכנו . אתה חווית רק את מוראות החווה , לא את מוראות קרב כישוף חמדיה , קרבות חמוטל , טלוויזיה , וקרב האימים הארור של צומת לכסיקון , קצת קשה לזלזל בקצין מילואים שלחם כמה מלחמות , ובמשך כמה ימים במלחמה , וקצין סדיר צעיר , שלחם בעוז ובגבורה - אבל רק 17 שעות - יבוא ויטיל דופי בדבריו ויומר שהוא ממציאם..

בניגוד למילשטיין , אבי היה שם , וחווה את ההלם שעשרות מצריים קמים ממארב ובדיוק אז נגמר לו השרשר של ה 0.5 ... אני מאמין שלא צריך להכניס אותך לסיטואציה , אתה מבין זאת טוב .
טיפת כבוד !!
לא רק 890 נלחמו ונגרמו להם אבידות איומות ..

ועוד משהו , בכל סיפורי גדס"ר 87 - ציר עכביש מצויין כחסום , כך שאיני יודע למי יש בעיה כאן בהבנת הנקרא.. וגם אהרונוביץ שנלחם על ציר עכביש רשם זאת בשרשור
אני מכבדך על זה שיש לך את האומץ לספר את האמת על קרבות 890 (קרב אחד .. ) , אבל ישנם המוני חיילי מילואים שבעי קרבות ומלאי רשמים שיש גם להם משהו לומר , וזה לא עבירה פלילית אם יש התנגשות עם דברי ההסטוריון המכובד מלשטיין , שהחזיק עט במקום עוזי במלחמה ...

אגב , למי שלא שם לב - אני שופר כאן לאבי , ולדודיי .






Is this the area of the israeli BREAKTHROUGH, with the roller bbridge to Deversoir ..??

שים לב שהם גם על ציר עכביש

http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/04/05/50002547.jpg




General Sharon "grief" ... on which occasion

שרון "מנקר" ב 16 לחודש במצמד , לאחר קרב טרטור לכסיקון


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/04/06/92612695.jpg






למרבה הפלא לא סומנו במפה כלל מעבירי מים על ציר עכביש, כך שלא ניתן להעזר בה בבטחון לעניין זה. עם זאת, התעלה הראשונה שחוצה את הציר מצויה כק"מ מערבית למתג 52. סביר ששם היו גם מעביר מים וגם תעלה. בחינה מדוקדקת של פני השטח מגלה שקע רדוד ליד יתד ארטילרית ה81א. יתכן ששם היה גם מעביר מים. מיקום זה תואם למקום שסומן בספרך.

רצב המפה:


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2006/11/12/43202467.jpg





סד"כ חטיבה 14 ב 15 באוקטובר 1973 לפי סדר התנועה

מוביל - גדס"ר 87
2- מפח"ט 14
3- גדוד 79
4- גדוד 184
5- גדוד 407
6- גדוד 424 עם פלוגת צוערי בה"ד 1 (ת"פ 424) ועם מ"פ ג' 407 גבי ורדי וחמישה טנקים גם הם ת"פ 424.
7- כח שמוליק - גדוד מאולתר שהורכב מפלוגה ו' 890 ופלוגה ה' 202 בפיקוד שמוליק ארד עם סמ"פ ג' 407 נחום שקד וארבעה טנקים ת"פ כח שמוליק. כח שמוליק הוקם בשישי באוקטובר כמפג"ד שפעל עצמאית לאורך כל המלחמה ת"פ אמנון רשף ולסרוגין ת"פ ישיר אריק שרון
8- גדוד 582 (שונרי) שיועד לשמש ככח עתודה במאסף. כח זה אחר להגיע לנקודת הכינוס ושירך דרכו מאוחר יותר בלילה בציר החולות לשדה הקרב.






תרשים הקרב המקורי, מתוך הסרט גרסת הלוחמים ששודר בערוץ 2 בשנת 2003


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2008/02/02/78376543.jpg http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2008/02/02/48783718.jpg






לפי קורות גדוד 410 - ראו בחלקים המודגשים, זיהה הגדוד בסיור שנעשה על ציר טרטור פצוע מגדוד 890 ב18 לחודש בערב , כמעט 48 שעות מהקרב :

http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2006/11/04/72637315.jpg


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2006/11/04/16164411.jpg
מיהו אותו פצוע ?

בהנחה וזה נכון , הרי שהוא חולץ אחרון , ולא דחבש. כמו כן, הנחתי שההרוגים פונו בתום הקרב...


Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[GiladS]

General Sharon "grief" ... on which occasion

שרון "מנקר" ב 16 לחודש במצמד , לאחר קרב טרטור לכסיקון


http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2005/04/06/92612695.jpg


That's not grief but sleep deprivation... I doubt Sharon had time to grieve.

It says the photo was taken on the 16th of October after a night of fighting.

[Yahia Al Shaer]

That's not grief but sleep deprivation... I doubt Sharon had time to grieve.

It says the photo was taken on the 16th of October after a night of fighting.



Thanks a lot GiladS, for your quick response,

Actually, I have connected between his photo and what he had written in his worthreading book "Ariel Sharon , Warrior", about his personla feelings, regarding the loss of some soldirs ...

It was amazing, that he had written such lines, with their touching words.

Please, be so kind and translated the other text related to the maps.

It seems, that , the FRESH forum, deals with lots of battle field details


This is another time, when I really wished, understanding the Hebrew threads



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

I think you're somehow overestimating this type of bridge. Following some quotes about it.


think you're somehow overestimating this type of bridge. Following some quotes about it.




Quote:
I carry with warmth my 48 years as member of the Knesset, and shall never forget my initial shock when, in the War of Independence, an important military officer reported that we were left with ammunition sufficient for only five days of battle. Nor will I forget our crestfallen faces when the Glilim Bridge did not function at the crucial moment during the Yom Kippur war and all seemed lost. I carry with me the bitter taste of disappointments stemming from our failed efforts to make peace, or balance the economy.

Part of an address by President Shimon Peres at the Opening of the 18th Knesset on 24th February 2009.




Quote:
Why MAKHNAR (?) added footage of the largest fiasco of the engineering corps ever: the roller bridge?

A comment from an Isreali moderator at Stealbeasts.com related to the video I posted.



It is essential, to admit, the importance of T.S.C.Plage , point of view and remarks , regarding his intentions to discuss other factors related to that bridge.


The fact, that this happens in other forums, urges me to express my apologies for not reacting to that idea.

In fact, it can turn out to be an enriching and possibly an essential part of this thread.

Entshuldigung .... this is German and it means "Sorry"



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Two additional photos of the roller bridge, - pulished in Yom Kippur thread -

The one, shows , how the bridge do get deeper in the water, under the weight of a tank.

This indicates, that the stiffining / stabilzing bar connection has either failed or was not there.

For sure, the mil. industry , will try every technical trick to obtain a better functionality



Dr. Yahia Al Shaer




http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/271/scan0008v.jpg





http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7463/scan0007ni.jpg

[GuitarCrazyo]

Id pay to see that. Maybe bring Senator Nelson down?The furthest north I ever go on Main is turning right at the end of the Main St. bridge to go to the ball park

[Yahia Al Shaer]

Id pay to see that. Maybe bring Senator Nelson down?The furthest north I ever go on Main is turning right at the end of the Main St. bridge to go to the ball park


The following piosting , shows what you needed to see



Originally Posted by T.S.C.Plage http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4490151#post4490151)
Check the following video from 2:22 on. It shows the deployment of the bridge and some tanks crossing it.


http://www.youtube.com/v/6zFJSwHb7uE (http://www.youtube.com/v/6zFJSwHb7uE)

As it looks it doesn't needs any guidance from boats to get deployed.



Dr. Yahai Al Shaer

[Kaplanr]

That's not grief but sleep deprivation... I doubt Sharon had time to grieve.

It says the photo was taken on the 16th of October after a night of fighting.

More specifically after the fighting at "Tirtur" and "Lexicon".

[Marsh]

Hi,
Some years ago I was visiting the main IDF ordnance base at Tel ha Shomer. I was shown a section of assault bridge tucked behind a shed. The officer showing me around was very proud of this section of bridge, which had been preserved from 1973. Apparently it was a section used for proof of concept for a bridge designed and produced at incredibly short-notice during the October war, once it became apparent that the roller bridge wasn't performing optimally.

I wasn't too impressed, I had come to see heavy armour not an engineers museum piece. I had visited the base to do a photo shoot of the Merkava 3 production line. Reading this thread, I rather wish I had taken more notice of the bridge section. It might not have been as impressive or famous as the roller bridge, but it was a better, more pactical design produced under pressure - and it worked!
Cheers
Marsh