PDA

View Full Version : GOP and UK Tories: The Reality Moment



Ordie
10-16-2009, 03:42 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/nytlogo153x23.gif (http://www.nytimes.com/)



October 16, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
The Reality Moment

By DAVID BROOKS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/davidbrooks/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
That which can’t continue doesn’t. A nation can spend and spend, pile debt upon debt, but eventually there comes a reality moment when some leader emerges to say enough is enough and when decent people, looking around at themselves and their own best nature, respond by demanding a return to responsibility.
In the United States, we’re not at that moment yet. Private debt is being replaced by public debt. New entitlements are being created, and the money that could be used to ward off fiscal disaster is being used for other things. Here, Democrats still get ahead by promising tax cuts for the bottom 98 percent and Republicans get ahead by promising tax cuts for all and Medicare cuts for none.
But Britain has hit its reality moment. The Brits are ahead of us when it comes to public indebtedness and national irresponsibility. Spending has been out of control for longer and in a more sustained way.
But in that country, the climate of opinion has turned. There, voters are ready for a politician willing to face reality. And George Osborne, who would become the chancellor of the Exchequer in the likely event that his Conservative Party wins the next election, has aggressively seized the moment.
In a party conference address earlier this month, Osborne gave the speech that an American politician will someday have to give. He said that he is not ideologically hostile to government. “Millions of Britons depend on public services and cannot opt out,” he declared. He defended government workers against those who would deride them as self-serving bureaucrats: “Conservatives should never use lazy rhetoric that belittles those who are employed by the government.”
But, he pivoted, “it is because we treat those who work in our public sector with respect that I want to be straight with you about the choices we face.” The British government needs to cut back.
Osborne declared that his government would raise the retirement age. That age was scheduled to rise at some point in the distant future. Osborne vowed to increase it sometime in the next five to 10 years.
Osborne declared that there would be no tax cuts any time soon. He said that as a matter of principle he believes that the top income tax rate of 50 percent is too high. But, he continued, “we cannot even think of abolishing the 50 percent rate in the rich” while others down the income scale are asked to scrimp.
Osborne offered government workers the same sort of choice that many private sector executives are forced to make. He proposed a public sector pay freeze in order to avoid 100,000 layoffs. He said that the pay freeze would apply to all workers except those making less than £18,000 (nearly $29,000) “because I don’t believe in balancing the budget on the backs of the poorest. Nor do you.”
There were other austerities. Osborne vowed to cut a program he once supported but which has not proved its worth: a baby bond program that was meant to help offset the costs of childhood. There would no longer be means-tested tax credits for families making more than £50,000.
Osborne’s speech was not an isolated event. The Conservatives have treated British voters as adults for a year now, with a string of serious economic positions. The Conservatives supported the Labour government bank bailout, even though it was against their political interest to do so. Last November, Osborne opposed a cut in the value-added taxes on the grounds that the cuts were unaffordable and would not produce growth. It is not easy for any conservative party to oppose tax cuts, but this one did it.
And the public has responded. The Conservatives now have a dominating lead over Labour. Over all, support for the Conservatives rose by 4 percentage points after Osborne’s speech. The polls reveal that nearly 60 percent of Britons support the austerity measures. The Conservatives have a 21-point lead when it comes to being honest about public finances and a 14-point lead on economic policy generally.
The key is that Osborne is not merely offering pain, but a different economic vision — different from Labour and different from the Thatcherism that was designed to meet the problems of the 1980s.
In the U.S., the economic crisis has caused many to question capitalism. But Britain has discredited the center-left agenda with its unrelenting public spending, its public development agencies and disappointing public-private investment partnerships.
Osborne and David Cameron, the party leader, argue that Labour’s decision to centralize power has undermined personal and social responsibility. They are offering a responsibility agenda from top to bottom. Decentralize power so local elected bodies have responsibility. Structure social support to encourage responsible behavior and responsible spending.
If any Republican is looking for a way forward, start by doing what they’re doing across the Atlantic.

http://up.nytimes.com/?d=0/9/&t=&s=0&ui=0&r=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2enytimes%2ecom%2f2009%2f10%2f16%2fopinion%2f16brooks%2ehtml%3fref%3dopinion&u=www%2enytimes%2ecom%2f2009%2f10%2f16%2fopinion%2f16brooks%2ehtml%3fref%3dopinion%26pagewanted%3dprint http://wt.o.nytimes.com/dcsym57yw10000s1s8g0boozt_9t1x/njs.gif?dcsuri=/nojavascript&WT.js=No&WT.tv=1.0.7

Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/opinion/16brooks.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

CMNot
10-16-2009, 05:24 AM
Firstly, I sincerely hope the Tories are committed to trying to break down Liebours centralised cancer. I vote on ideological grounds, and this would actually tear me away from my sofa to bother voting.

Secondly, IMHO, the cutting doesn't cut deep enough for me.

Thirdly, the majority of our ruling elite have been found to be guilty of at best fraud, and at worst embezzlement. Come November 5 this year, I will be celebrating the life and times of Guy Fawkes with some vigour and only a little remorse that his venture deemed unsuccessful.

The crux of the article is correct though. It would appear that Obama has used his political good will capital, and resembles more a flip flopping busted flush right now than a political powerhouse. As the outlook in the states is not to disimilar to here, with a little 'honest' (and I use that term loosely) agenda and promises of some reality, I don't see any reason why the GOP can't wrestly back Congress next year (did I get that right?). Particularly in a country more traditionally aligned against intrusive Government and centralised spending.

Mr Gently Benevolent
10-16-2009, 06:38 AM
I will be honest about it “I loathe the Tories” but I can be fair and objective about their policies and intentions and really cannot see how the Tories are going to achieve the cuts they are claiming they will make. I believe the will carry on many of Labours policies with a few token changes, they will however privatise many more of our national interests I think this will include the closure and disposal of MOD facilities and the rail network again. Despite the promise to slash elements of the bureaucratic machine my feeling is they will simply spin parts of it off into privatisation so we may save some money on pension commitments but little else. Were just swapping one ham fisted economic policy for another.

wotsnext
10-16-2009, 06:42 AM
“I loathe the Tories”
x2........................

happyslapper
10-16-2009, 06:49 AM
Thanks Ordie, for the US perspective. I think most British voters would disagree with the assessment of the paper, the Tories aren't the white-knights riding to the rescue.
Generally, the Conservatives make me highly suspicious, and i'd ideally vote for the Lib Dems or perhaps Labour. But on this occasion, I think a conservative government, or more importantly a restoration of political normality, is what's best for the country. Unless something seriously changes, I shall be voting for them.
In a way, the severe unpopularity of Labour is the best thing that's happened to politics in this country for a long time; it gives a future government the opportunity to sort out what really needs to be sorted (fingers crossed) without fear of reprisal from the electorate.

Mr Gently Benevolent
10-16-2009, 07:01 AM
Thanks Ordie, for the US perspective. I think most British voters would disagree with the assessment of the paper, the Tories aren't the white-knights riding to the rescue.
Generally, the Conservatives make me highly suspicious, and i'd ideally vote for the Lib Dems or perhaps Labour. But on this occasion, I think a conservative government, or more importantly a restoration of political normality, is what's best for the country. Unless something seriously changes, I shall be voting for them.
In a way, the severe unpopularity of Labour is the best thing that's happened to politics in this country for a long time; it gives a future government the opportunity to sort out what really needs to be sorted (fingers crossed) without fear of reprisal from the electorate.Some Americans that I know have been saying stuff like "I bet your really pleased that Labour are getting kicked next year" I can only convince them that Labour are truly a bunch of c*nts but the Conservatives are an even bigger bunch of c*nts. They just don't get that were voting for a change of scenery rather than a change of diet.

Mu-Meson
10-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Is David Brookes high or something? Is he actually suggesting the GOP follow the Tories path? Hmm, lets see: A decade or more in the wilderness? Defending a govt bureaucracy that would make Soviet-era Eastern Europe blush? The Tories are just Labour-lite, and their central premise is "we can deliver a leftwing govt, with leftwing policies and programs, taxation and spending, more efficiently than a leftwing party". I'm sorry, but for a supposedly "conservative" party, that doesn't wash.

They just don't get that were voting for a change of scenery rather than a change of diet.
Well put.

big_les
10-22-2009, 09:33 AM
The funny thing is, our "Conservatives" are liberals by virtually any US standard.

Estopped
10-22-2009, 11:10 AM
If the tories weren't so anti-europe i might consider voting for them. But as it stands they are basically wanting to regress our country by marginalising us and putting us on the fringes of Europe.

Ordie
10-22-2009, 12:53 PM
If the tories weren't so anti-europe i might consider voting for them. But as it stands they are basically wanting to regress our country by marginalising us and putting us on the fringes of Europe.

Not if Tony Blair becomes EU President.

Mr Gently Benevolent
10-22-2009, 12:57 PM
Not if Tony Blair becomes EU President.If the Tories become the ruling party in then there is little Tony can do stop them being obtuse.

Ordie
10-22-2009, 01:00 PM
If the Tories become the ruling party in then there is little Tony can do stop them being obtuse.

But it keeps the UK relevant in Brussels. (For what its worth)

Derbedeu
10-22-2009, 01:13 PM
The President will have little actual power. The President just Chairs the EU Council, but has no vote or veto power. At best, he/she can try to broker deals between member states and perhaps introduce or bring to the Council's attention certain issues or agendas, but won't be able to impress it on them if they reject it. In fact the EU Foreign High Representative will probably have more real power than the EU Council President. Though of course someone of Blair's stature will probably be more visible than other candidates.

Estopped
10-22-2009, 04:02 PM
Blair is a political corpse. I have no idea what they think he brings to the table. He's pro-Europe. But he's rabidly unpopular in the UK and won't exactly do much to help opinion of Europe in the UK. The thought of him as EU President actively repulses me.

Derbedeu
10-22-2009, 04:28 PM
Blair would bring a certain weight to the EU Presidency with the outside world, even if this weight will be nothing more than an aura. But sometimes in politics, the insubstantial is more important than the substantial. I can definitely see why he would be unpopular, thanks to the Iraq War, but think of how amusing it would be of Cameron having to call Blair President! :p :D

muttbutt
10-23-2009, 12:59 AM
Blair would bring a certain weight to the EU Presidency with the outside world, even if this weight will be nothing more than an aura. But sometimes in politics, the insubstantial is more important than the substantial. I can definitely see why he would be unpopular, thanks to the Iraq War, but think of how amusing it would be of Cameron having to call Blair President! :p :DA bunch of Palestinians heckled him as a terrorist yesterday on a visit to a mosque.....do we really want (an outside chance but a chance none the less) that the president of the EU council could get busted in some country on a visit and hauled off to trial.....entertaining but a bit of a pickle IMHO.