A family without a country

[Ordie]

A family without a country

John Diaz (jdiaz@sfchronicle.com)
Sunday, October 25, 2009
[/URL] [URL="http://www.militaryphotos.net/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2009/10/25/INS719K3HS.DTL&object=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.sfgate.com%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2009%2F10%2F23%2Fmn-Deport08Oct09_0500757022.jpg"]http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/10/23/mn-Deport08Oct09_0500757022.jpg (http://www.militaryphotos.net/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2009/10/25/INS719K3HS.DTL&o=0&type=printable)



Until March 7, 2007, Sam Mejia-Reyes and Elida Perez were like millions of other undocumented immigrants who were quietly thriving in the shadows of American society: They stayed out of trouble, they worked multiple jobs, they paid their taxes, they scrimped to buy a ranch-style home in Novato, and they sent their children to school in hopes of ensuring a more comfortable life for the next generation.
On that night, everything changed.

Armed officers from Immigration and Customs Enforcement stormed into the house in what turned out to be a case of mistaken identity.
"It was like living a horror movie," said Gilbert Mejia-Perez, the couple's 18-year-old son, who was just a year old when the family came here from Guatemala in 1992. "I was shaken out of bed with guys holding shotguns to my face. It hurts just to think that would happen in America. ... The thing that hurt most was watching my sisters experience that. ... They were just babies."
Even though the ICE agents were looking for a suspect who was not related to the family, they quickly determined that the family was not here legally. They arrested Sam - binding his hands and legs - and took him to a detention center to begin the deportation process for him, his wife, Elida, and their son Gilbert. Each of their two daughters, however, was born in the United States and thus is a U.S. citizen with a constitutional right to stay here.
This family's case underscores the inconsistency and random cruelty of immigration enforcement in this nation. In Phoenix, ICE has been trying to stop Sheriff Joe Arpaio from conducting his street roundups of illegal immigrants. In San Francisco, federal authorities have been tussling with the city over its attempts to shield arrested youths from deportation. In Sacramento, the police chief last week suggested that fear of deportation was becoming a hindrance to public safety. Chief Rick Braziel said there was a population of criminals that "actually prey on folks knowing they're not going to call us."
President Obama campaigned on a platform of bringing a semblance of sanity to immigration law. But with the economy, Afghanistan and health care dominating the capital agenda, immigration reform is on hold for at least another year. Obama's pragmatic vision of comprehensive reform included intensified border security with a pathway to citizenship for otherwise undocumented workers who were already here.
Sam and Elida would be perfect candidates to enter such a pathway, which critics call amnesty and advocates call an admission of reality. Neither has a trace of a criminal record. He works as a carpenter for a contractor who builds houseboats and barges; she holds down jobs as a nanny and as a caregiver to an elderly client. They have spent about $30,000 in legal fees since the night of Sam's arrest.
Their time is running out. The husband and wife are scheduled to be deported on Nov. 2. Each is required to wear an electronic ankle bracelet with an alarm that would go off if he or she were to stray far from their home during nonwork hours. With their deportation imminent, they were allowed to testify Thursday on behalf of their son, Gilbert, a Santa Rosa Junior College student who is seeking asylum because of the politically related violence that his relatives in Guatemala have encountered. The next hearing on his request is scheduled for July.
In the absence of comprehensive reform, fighting deportation becomes a matter of chance - and political clout. This family has been unable to persuade Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., to sponsor a private bill on their behalf. A spokesman for the senator said this case, while poignant, did not meet the high standard required for congressional intervention.
"As it gets closer to Nov. 2, I'm upset and a little afraid of returning," Elida said shortly after her son's hearing Thursday. "Most of all, I'm worried about my children, because the separation of the family is going to be extremely difficult for everyone."
If the deportation proceeds, the couple definitely plans to take their 4-year-old daughter, Dulce, with them to Guatemala. A more difficult decision involves their 13-year-old daughter, Helen, a high school freshman who wants to stay here and could live with an uncle.
"It's Sophie's Choice, really ... do you break up your family and allow a 13-year-old kid to stay here on her own?" said their San Francisco attorney, Marc Van Der Hout. "We're hoping against hope that ICE will either show some compassion or Sen. Feinstein will change her mind."
So far, federal authorities have demonstrated no such compassion. An immigration judge had found in October 2007 that the parents' deportation would cause exceptional hardship on their two U.S. citizen daughters - clearing the way for permanent residence status. But the Department of Homeland Security appealed that ruling, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, based in San Francisco, ultimately sided with federal authorities.
Gilbert, who plans to stay in the United States even if his parents are deported, hopes to transfer to a four-year college and study architecture.
"I'm basically doing what everyone else wants to do, follow the American dream and be successful," he said.
All too often, the immigration debate is driven by fear - fear among the citizenry that newcomers are committing crimes, draining public resources or taking jobs that otherwise would go to Americans with a birthright to partake in its posterity.
This American family, with two natural-born citizens, has been contributing to society for 17 years. It will be divided on Nov. 2, and its American dream dashed, unless an infusion of American ideals somehow interrupts this deportation.
Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/25/INS719K3HS.DTL&type=printable

[Henry's Fork]

They could always go back to Gautemala. ;) The illegal Gautemalan i work with says last year and this year have been some of the best coffee harvests in a long time, and most of the small share croppers are making nice profits. His little plot of land, that his family tends for him while he is here in El Gabacho, has turned such a huge profit this year, he has planned on leaving the US early. Organic coffee is big money.



In Phoenix, ICE has been trying to stop Sheriff Joe Arpaio from conducting his street roundups of illegal immigrants

Poor ole Joe, making the Feds look like fools, doing their job for them when they dont want to enforce the law. Got to love Bizzaro land USA.

[Chiptox]

The article glosses over the fact that they've been here since 1992 and never bothered to become legal. There is a naturalization process just for people like this and for good reason. I can't seem to muster much sympathy for them as they chose to ignore it for 17 years until it finally bit them in the ass.

[camerashy]

The article glosses over the fact that they've been here since 1992 and never bothered to become legal. There is a naturalization process just for people like this and for good reason. I can't seem to muster much sympathy for them as they chose to ignore it for 17 years until it finally bit them in the ass.
Agree completely.

[BearInBunnySuit]

I am amazed at how easy it is for illegal aliens to put down roots in this country. How were they able to have kids here when medical insurance is not available to illegals? How were they able to get a mortgage without proper documentation?


The article glosses over the fact that they've been here since 1992 and never bothered to become legal. There is a naturalization process just for people like this and for good reason. I can't seem to muster much sympathy for them as they chose to ignore it for 17 years until it finally bit them in the ass.

Are you sure? I can't imagine anyone being here illegally not taking opportunity of a such process if indeed it existed.

[SkyUS]

The article glosses over the fact that they've been here since 1992 and never bothered to become legal. There is a naturalization process just for people like this and for good reason. I can't seem to muster much sympathy for them as they chose to ignore it for 17 years until it finally bit them in the ass.

x2

While I feel sympathy for them. I agree with the poster above.

There is no reason for them not to at least begin the adjustment of status process. With the minute they submit the application they become legal immigrants, and no immigration can deport them unless they start doing some serious offences. Hell even if their petition get rejected they can still appeal it.

[SkyUS]

I am amazed at how easy it is for illegal aliens to put down roots in this country. How were they able to have kids here when medical insurance is not available to illegals? How were they able to get a mortgage without proper documentation?



Are you sure? I can't imagine anyone being here illegally not taking opportunity of a such process if indeed it existed.

I suppose saving cold hard money. I am sure that there are federal credit unions that grant loans to illegals. Maybe they sold all of their property in Guatemala, and bought this ranch house.

Adjustment of status either through family, employment or marriage. Sure it takes a long time to finally get it approved but hey at least you are legalizing yourself in US.

[Mango Madness]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/brj2UkUPjCI

[Chiptox]

I am amazed at how easy it is for illegal aliens to put down roots in this country. How were they able to have kids here when medical insurance is not available to illegals? How were they able to get a mortgage without proper documentation?
You don't need to show proof of citizenship to get insurance just a proof of residency (like a power bill) and a copy of state issued ID (like a driver's liscence). Both easy for an illegal alien to aquire.

Insurance companies aren't out to enforce immigration laws but to sell insurance.


Are you sure? I can't imagine anyone being here illegally not taking opportunity of a such process if indeed it existed.
Of course it exists. It takes a lot of time and some money. It also has a downside, the application may be rejected and they will have to leave. This is enough to scare most illegal aliens away from the process.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis

[BearInBunnySuit]

You don't need to show proof of citizenship to get insurance just a proof of residency (like a power bill) and a copy of state issued ID (like a driver's liscence). Both easy for an illegal alien to aquire.

Insurance companies aren't out to enforce immigration laws but to sell insurance.

That's the thing. It just seems to me that you hear a lot about people getting riled up about illegal immigrants yet the system allows these people to settle down without too much trouble.


Of course it exists. It takes a lot of time and some money. It also has a downside, the application may be rejected and they will have to leave. This is enough to scare most illegal aliens away from the process.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis

Yes, I was aware of the various options noted on that site but you made it sound as if there was a process where they would have been automatically granted residency without any risks. From what I know, any non-resident applying for residency has to do it in their home country and I think the fact that they were in the country illegally to begin with would probably disqualify them from applying for a green card.

[Chiptox]

That's the thing. It just seems to me that you hear a lot about people getting riled up about illegal immigrants yet the system allows these people to settle down without too much trouble.
I wouldn't say it is a system per se. Just society and life. Why should stores turn away shoppers? Why should landlords turn away tenants? It's bad business to turn them away.


Yes, I was aware of the various options noted on that site but you made it sound as if there was a process where they would have been automatically granted residency without any risks. From what I know, any non-resident applying for residency has to do it in their home country and I think the fact that they were in the country illegally to begin with would probably disqualify them from applying for a green card.
My apologies if I did. Of course there are risks. There are also risks in being in the country illegally. They ran them and lost.

They could have applied for temporary work visas and later applied for greencards if they wanted to do it within the system. Considering where they are at now, it is probably the route they should have taken but hindsight is always 20/20.

[gaijinsamurai]

I know of a couple people (one Mexican, one Palestinian) who illegally over-stayed their visas, worked illegally in the US for a long time, took advantage of amnesty programs while staying in this country, and eventually obtained permanent resident status and are now citizens.

[Arnie100]

My parents came to this country LEGALLY!! Why couldn't they? IF they had gone through the LEGAL process of becoming a citizen this miight not have happened. So I am sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for them.

[manberries]

Whew, these lies never end do they? Facts of the story (notice some of them are in clear opposition of the article). You cannot pay taxes if you do not have citizenship as your citizenship documents are used for taxes including wage taxes, it is illegal to enter this country without explicit authority of the US government (no matter how tortured, poor, or hard working you are), the "American Dream" does not include the entire world just Americans (this is because the US cannot support all of Mexico just walking right in), there are many MANY people who desire to come here legally who are well educated (East Europe specifically) yet find it nearly impossible due to the log jam illegals cause, and the process of being deported is not like a horror move (they arrest you and bring you across the border the next day. No evil prison cells, no lack of food or heat). This is a crap liberal article that flat out lies to our faces despite complete impossibilities. It is written for the liberal agenda yet contains only the slightest of truth or reality. These people deserved to be deported, end of story.

[junglejim]

Now I am not against the US trying to curb illegal immigration, but really shotguns on kids heads? That really necessary?

[Ordie]

My parents came to this country LEGALLY!! Why couldn't they? IF they had gone through the LEGAL process of becoming a citizen this miight not have happened. So I am sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for them.

That may be the case. However we have a mixed undocumented / citizen family who are propertyowners and taxpayers that will need extra attention and consideration. Especially when it comes to dealing with minors who are US citizens.

[Elbs]

Now I am not against the US trying to curb illegal immigration, but really shotguns on kids heads? That really necessary?

The article does mention that the raid was for another subject and they got the wrong family by accident.

Maybe the other guy was known to pack heat or was a felon.

[junglejim]

The article does mention that the raid was for another subject and they got the wrong family by accident.

Maybe the other guy was known to pack heat or was a felon.


True, but man i wouldnt be surprised if those kids will be scared ****less when dealing with the police.

We might hate most of this illegals, but a lot of them had to make a call for their lives and families. I wouldnt quickly judge them as scumbags out right. Even when it means I have to wait a wee bit longer in the line.:|

[Ordie]

You cannot pay taxes if you do not have citizenship as your citizenship documents are used for taxes including wage taxes,

Incorrect.

You don't need to be a citizen to pay your taxes.

The IRS created a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification Number for individuals who don't have Social Security numbers.

Besides, everyone pays sales, property and gas taxes regardless of status.

What would you prefer? increased taxes or more taxpayers?

[Ordie]

We might hate most of this illegals, but a lot of them had to make a call for their lives and families. I wouldnt quickly judge them as scumbags out right. Even when it means I have to wait a wee bit longer in the line.:|

It begs the question on how many crimes go unreported for fear of being deported by the local police.

[junglejim]

It begs the question on how many crimes go unreported for fear of being deported by the local police.

True, but that is the risk that they must bear for the decision they have made. The Police is there to enforce the law, by illegaly enterring the country a law was broken. It's up to the LEO's to decide which is more important info on more heinous crimes from these people or enforcement of all laws.

[rgjbloke]

That may be the case. However we have a mixed undocumented / citizen family who are propertyowners and taxpayers that will need extra attention and consideration. Especially when it comes to dealing with minors who are US citizens.

I agree, this in my view as an outside observer does, I think make this a bit of a unique case. In particular, what about the children. They are legal resident's so presumably deporting them would be unlawful? Will the Authorities go ahead and deport the whole family or just the family members who still unlawful resident's? Seem's a bit tricky to me and I wonder a Lawyer somewhere is probably going to make quite a bit of money out of it? If that's the case, wouldn't the Authorities be better off just granting an amnesty in this instance and be having done with it?

[junglejim]

I agree, this in my view as an outside observer does, I think make this a bit of a unique case. In particular, what about the children. They are legal resident's so presumably deporting them would be unlawful? Will the Authorities go ahead and deport the whole family or just the family members who still unlawful resident's? Seem's a bit tricky to me and I wonder a Lawyer somewhere is probably going to make quite a bit of money out of it? If that's the case, wouldn't the Authorities be better off just granting an amnesty in this instance and be having done with it?


Opening the gates to a flood of Anchor babies.

[rgjbloke]

Opening the gates to a flood of Anchor babies.

I take your point but if the kid's are there lawfully. What are they going to do? I presume there must be similar instance from a previous case. Was there a precedent set? It would be interesting to know.

[Ordie]

Will the children become wards of the state? If so who pays? The state which is already bankrupt with one less taxpayer or the Feds ?

In a nutshell, we converted a family independent from government assistance to one of extreme dependency on many levels.

[Zarak]

Incorrect.

You don't need to be a citizen to pay your taxes.

The IRS created a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification Number for individuals who don't have Social Security numbers.

Besides, everyone pays sales, property and gas taxes regardless of status.

What would you prefer? increased taxes or more taxpayers?

Its strange that the state with the largest number of illegal aliens has a Zimbabwe-esque budget deficit when illegal aliens are such a tax boon, don't you think? Hmm.

[brainplay]

I agree, this in my view as an outside observer does, I think make this a bit of a unique case. In particular, what about the children. They are legal resident's so presumably deporting them would be unlawful? Will the Authorities go ahead and deport the whole family or just the family members who still unlawful resident's? Seem's a bit tricky to me and I wonder a Lawyer somewhere is probably going to make quite a bit of money out of it? If that's the case, wouldn't the Authorities be better off just granting an amnesty in this instance and be having done with it?

As legal citizens the children have a right to remain here if they can find relatives or a caregiver to take them. They also have the right to return to the US whenever they feel like it. However, they are still children under the guardianship of their parents and will be transported along with their deported parents if they decide to stay together. In the cases of children, their citizenship does not mean they must stay in the US, only that they can.

Children become wards of the state when the state terminates custody of the children from the parents. This is not the case.

[Arnie100]

They could've gone through the legal process, if they wanted to. They chose not to.

[Ordie]

Its strange that the state with the largest number of illegal aliens has a Zimbabwe-esque budget deficit when illegal aliens are such a tax boon, don't you think? Hmm.

It begs the question if we need higher taxes or more taxpayers.

[SoSo]

I can see that most illegals respect the law (except for residing here illegally) work hard and pay taxes. Rounding them all up and deporting them would be almost impossible, not to mention politically suicidal, so I suppose we have to let them stay here. But isn't amnesty enough? Do we have to let them vote, too?
I'm not bothered so much by these illegals being here. I just don't want them to vote!

[Ordie]

Do we have to let them vote, too?
I'm not bothered so much by these illegals being here. I just don't want them to vote!

That is not being proposed.

Only legalization to reside, work and serve in the Armed Forces.

The naturalization process remains the same with exception for those immigrants who are serving in the US Armed Forces.

[ego docui history]

How were they able to have kids here when medical insurance is not available to illegals? How were they able to get a mortgage without proper documentation?
Actually, illegals can and do get insurance. A good number of the kids I teach have parents that are/were illegal and most still manage to have insurance. And when it comes to mortgages, the 1099 mortgages usually require only proof you work and not just a social and a bs promise of what you earn like us natives were able to get. Ironically, the default rate on those loans was a good bit lower than average since they were the only ones who had to actually prove what they made to that extent. Very much so compared to the "no doc/low doc" loans.
Arnie is also dead spot on...they could have become legal on numerous occasion under different programs if they wanted to. Problem is, so many illegals come from countries that the government isn't exactly the nicest groups of people so they have an ingrained mistrust of anyone with the government, even their kids history teacher. They fear we may try and turn them in.

[Soldat_Américain]

Its strange that the state with the largest number of illegal aliens has a Zimbabwe-esque budget deficit when illegal aliens are such a tax boon, don't you think? Hmm.

That's ignorant. Illegals have almost nothing to with the budget problems in this state compared to the damage our dumbass voting population has done.

[Zarak]

That's ignorant. Illegals have almost nothing to with the budget problems in this state compared to the damage our dumbass voting population has done.

k.



* There were 2.8 million illegal immigrants living in California in 2006, the last year for which there are relatively good figures, according to the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California. That represented about 8% of the state's population and roughly a quarter of the nation's illegal immigrants. About 90% of California's illegal immigrants were from Latin America; 65% from Mexico.

* There are roughly 19,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons, representing 11% of all inmates. That's costing $970 million during the current fiscal year. The feds kick in a measly $111 million, leaving the state with an $859 million tab.

* Schools are the toughest to calculate. Administrators don't ask kids about citizenship status. Anyway, many children of illegal immigrants were born in this country and automatically became U.S. citizens.

If you figure that the children of illegal immigrants attending K-12 schools approximates the proportion of illegal immigrants in the population, the bill currently comes to roughly $4 billion. Most is state money; some local property taxes.

* Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to welfare, called CalWORKs. But their citizen children are. Roughly 190,000 kids are receiving welfare checks that pass through their parents. The cost: about $500 million, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst's Office.

Schwarzenegger has proposed removing these children from the welfare rolls after five years. It's part of a broader proposal to also boot off, after five years, the children of U.S. citizens who aren't meeting federal work requirements. There'd be a combined savings of $522 million.

* The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that, $642 million goes into direct benefits. Practically all the rest is paid to counties to administer the program. The feds generally match the state dollar-for-dollar on mandatory programs.

So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million. Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the cost of baby delivery -- $108 million -- because the newborns aren't illegal immigrants.

The state also pays $47 million for programs that Washington does not require: Non-emergency care (breast and cervical cancer treatment), $25 million; long-term nursing home care, $19 million; abortions, $3 million.


Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California -- which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide -- $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.


As a result of both the continued growth
in the illegal alien population and the higher cost of governmental services,
the current fiscal cost outlays for the illegal alien population in California
are now approaching $13.1 billion annually - more than half the projected
shortfall for next year.

123456

[junglejim]

Deport them with their kids. When the children reach 18 then they have a choice to enter live in the US or the country where their parents come from. This stops the "anchor" baby syndrome and yet still leave a hole for the children born in the US by their illegal parents. After all it wasnt their choice.

[ego docui history]

Deport them with their kids. When the children reach 18 then they have a choice to enter live in the US or the country where their parents come from. This stops the "anchor" baby syndrome and yet still leave a hole for the children born in the US by their illegal parents. After all it wasnt their choice.
Problem is, that would require a constitutional amendment as we can't kick US citizens out no matter how much they deserve it or how much we want to. Personally, I'd like to jettison D.C. and pawn it off on someone like Tristan Du Cunha.

[junglejim]

Problem is, that would require a constitutional amendment as we can't kick US citizens out no matter how much they deserve it or how much we want to. Personally, I'd like to jettison D.C. and pawn it off on someone like Tristan Du Cunha.

Well things do need to be done to keep with the times. When the constitution was made, you were the illegals, so the forefathers probably had no clue what was to happen. p-)

[ego docui history]

Well things do need to be done to keep with the times. When the constitution was made, you were the illegals, so the forefathers probably had no clue what was to happen. p-)
True. Ask an Apache what they think of illegal immigration. Heck, I live in Texas, a country stolen by illegal immigrants that snuck across the border and started speaking a foreign language.:)

[junglejim]

True. Ask an Apache what they think of illegal immigration. Heck, I live in Texas, a country stolen by illegal immigrants that snuck across the border and started speaking a foreign language.:)


So Alamo was about a Mexican hotellier who forced his illegal employees to speak spanish and change their name?!p-)

[ego docui history]

So Alamo was about a Mexican hotellier who forced his illegal employees to speak spanish and change their name?!p-)
Actually, you aren't that far off. The Texas Constitution only got written in English over Spanish by 1 vote. The Anglos there were mostly foreigners that had snuck across the border with guns. There were a TON of Tejanos (you'd never know by any of the Alamo movies) but lots of the famous people were pretty much all there illegally.

[Ordie]

Deport them with their kids. When the children reach 18 then they have a choice to enter live in the US or the country where their parents come from. This stops the "anchor" baby syndrome and yet still leave a hole for the children born in the US by their illegal parents. After all it wasnt their choice.

You can't deport US citizens.

BTW: My parents were undocumented at the time of my birth. I'm also a 10 year Naval veteran with a Master's Degree. If you start deporting my fellow citizens, it would have to be over my dead body.

[Ordie]

Well things do need to be done to keep with the times. When the constitution was made, you were the illegals, so the forefathers probably had no clue what was to happen. p-)

Good luck in passing another amendment.

Because it ain't going to happen.

[Ordie]

So Alamo was about a Mexican hotellier who forced his illegal employees to speak spanish and change their name?!p-)

Your knowledge of history and civics is really bad.

The Alamo was a former Spanish Mission.

[junglejim]

Your knowledge of history and civics is really bad.

The Alamo was a former Spanish Mission.

About as bad as your situational awareness. Read the evolution of the context of the discussion between Senor Ego and I. I understand this is a personal issue with you and I guess mine too.

I specifically mentioned to amend your constitution as a bait for a specific reaction like "Its never gonna happen." Because most Americans want to seriously address immigration, but cant take the pill. Which would constitute an ammendment of the constitution. Until that is done, the problem of immigration will always be there. When the constitution was made, immigration was not a problem but more of solution in helping make America better.

[Ordie]

When the constitution was made, immigration was not a problem but more of solution in helping make America better.

But we had an issue of slavery and Irish immigrants escaping the potato famine.

[junglejim]

But we had an issue of slavery and Irish immigrants escaping the potato famine.

Sorry I am not sure where you are coming from with the comment, can you please clarify?

My point was immigration would be a hard problem to tackle because the US is a nation of immigrants. When the forefathers, yours and not mine (they were ****ing around in South East Asia looking for spices totally missing the big picture), envisioned the US it was supposed to be a nation for immigrants looking for a new better life. Now, it changed, so things must also change to address this new outlook.

If it wanted to, the problem can be solved, but the US will have to take the pill and fix the constitution to address the immigration policy.

[Zarak]

Sorry I am not sure where you are coming from with the comment, can you please clarify?

My point was immigration would be a hard problem to tackle because the US is a nation of immigrants. When the forefathers, yours and not mine (they were ****ing around in South East Asia looking for spices totally missing the big picture), envisioned the US it was supposed to be a nation for immigrants looking for a new better life. Now, it changed, so things must also change to address this new outlook.

If it wanted to, the problem can be solved, but the US will have to take the pill and fix the constitution to address the immigration policy.

The United States accepts the most legal immigrants of any nation on Earth. Immigration isn't the problem, illegal immigration is.

[junglejim]

The United States accepts the most legal immigrants of any nation on Earth. Immigration isn't the problem, illegal immigration is.

The immigration policies now are totally different from when most of your ancestors filed theirs. Hell, if they have had the same policies of today applied back then, there would be two or more European flags in those immigration rallies.

[Ordie]

The United States accepts the most legal immigrants of any nation on Earth. Immigration isn't the problem, illegal immigration is.

Immigration in general is an issue.

It's not a question of getting in the back of the line, but more about which line to pick.

Our immigration policies are very arbitrary depending on the country of origin.

Very little is based on the economic, educational and social needs of the country.

[Zarak]

The immigration policies now are totally different from when most of your ancestors filed theirs. Hell, if they have had the same policies of today applied back then, there would be two or more European flags in those immigration rallies.

Immigration has been controlled by the Federal government since at least 1790 when the Naturalization Act of 1790 was passed, requiring two years of legal residence (among other things) for naturalization.

Its not as though its been a free for all until recently when BOOM the American government decides to control immigration.

[junglejim]

Immigration has been controlled by the Federal government since at least 1790 when the Naturalization Act of 1790 was passed, requiring two years of legal residence (among other things) for naturalization.

Its not as though its been a free for all until recently when BOOM the American government decides to control immigration.


It wasn't necessarily a free for all, but more of the lead time in getting in got seriously longer. Now there are that can wait, but there are a lot more who are in a far serious need of a better life, hence some grow desperate.

I agree with Ordie, in that you cant deal with the issue of illegal immigration without dealing with the overall issue of Immigration.