I won't travel to US in future: Fernandes

[OB Kenobi]

Now this is just getting ridiculous. Why did they do this to him? This is like if India strip searched Donald Rumsfeld. Hello? Anyone home at Homeland Security?

I won't travel to US in future: Fernandes

PTI[ SUNDAY, JULY 11, 2004 08:45:13 PM ]

MUZAFFARPUR: Terming as "ordeal" his strip-search twice in Dulles airport in the US capital area when he was Defence Minister, George Fernandes on Sunday said he had decided not to visit America in future.

Fernandes told reporters at Muzaffarpur circuit house that despite repeated request of the Indian ambassador to the US, the American officials strip-searched him once on an official visit to Washington and on another occasion en route to Brazil.

The former defence minister said he had told the then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee about the incident.

"I cannot forget the ordeal which I underwent in the US and have decided not to go there in future", Fernandes who had come here on two-day visit to his Muzaffarpur parliamentary constituency on Saturday, said.

Former Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott in his new book " Engaging India - Diplomacy, Democracy and the Bomb ," had referred to the incident saying he was told this angrily by Fernandes himself when he had visited India in February this year as part of a delegation assembled by the Asoen Institute and the Confederation of Indian Industry.

[Argyll]

So just who is this Fernandes guy?

[mack pl]

So just who is this Fernandes guy?

India defense minister.... :roll:

[BlackRain]

What can I tell you? We Americans are just kinky and he had a hot body.
It's his fault.

[shrek]

If they strip searched him then they had a reason. He should have ahd diplomatic immunity if he was anyone of importance, if he didn't then he was probably dirty and we knew it. Who gives a flying f..k if he doesn't come back! Anyone ever been to his country? And he says we put HIM through an ordeal!

[American Patriot]

Washington.. still better than Mumbai.

[n4292936]

When was the last time you were in Mumbai, huh?
Whoever insisted on searching this guy had there heads so far up there ass. Another fine example of how to alienate allies.

[shrek]

I'm sorry....(me cleaning my ears) did you say allies? We've had lots of allies, the Germans used to be, the French, hell, we helped Iraq win a war against Iran. We helped Afghanistan beat the Russians for Gods sake!

Be careful who you call your allies! This is not paranoia, it's history! If we searched him it wasn't to alienate anybody, it was to protect our sorry asses. If we would have strip searched some other shady folks coming into America a whole lot of people wouldn't be dead right now.

Most diplomats have immunity, they can carry anything they want into or out of this country without any questions. This guy couldn't? Makes you wonder, huh?

[mocking_loudly_died]

It was revenge humiliation due to the amount of annoying Indians on Yahoo chat going "asl - man? - woman? - me want to see you naked!!!".

MOAB away!

[cut]

It was revenge humiliation due to the amount of annoying Indians on Yahoo chat going "asl - man? - woman? - me want to see you naked!!!".

MOAB away!

When I was there I saw loads of internet cafes in big cities have booths along with a box of tissues in each one..

[MEGR]

Who cares. I'm glad that the dudes at the airport are doing their jobs.

[moughoun]

It was revenge humiliation due to the amount of annoying Indians on Yahoo chat going "asl - man? - woman? - me want to see you naked!!!".

MOAB away!

When I was there I saw loads of internet cafes in big cities have booths along with a box of tissues in each one..

Thank's for sharing that ewww :(

[duck]

The immigration guys should've searched Berlusconi on his way to Dubya's ranch. Stilettos, death lists, pics of Silvio kissing with the Godfather...

[Mark Sman]

What can I say?

He'll be missed. Not sure if never travelling to the US is going to advance his diplomatic career. Maybe it will. Who knows.

Still, no he'll get no Holi card from me now.

[ronin2172]

Who cares. I'm glad that the dudes at the airport are doing their jobs.
that's easy to say when u don't happen to fit into the profile. Racial profiling is not doing your job and isn't going to stop anything.

I'm sorry shrek but i fail to grasp your point on strip searching would have prevented anything (I'm assuming u mean 9/11), especially considering the flights hijacked that day were domestic flights and this gentleman was on an international flight. This smacks of profiling strictly based on race. This guy is not even in the same age range as the hijackers (he is in all likelehood in his 50s at least while most hijackers tend to be in their 20s...younger guys are more stupid and have a lot less to lose, you don't see any of the AQ brain trust actually carrying out ops do you?) and i seriously doubt he walked into the airport with a OBL for prez t-shirt. The only possible reason he was treated like this is because he 'looks' arab and comes from a particular region.

Another thing diplomatic immunity doesn't cover everyone....

The principle of diplomatic immunity dates from Antiquity, when the Greek government extended special status to foreign envoys. Basically, it allows representatives of foreign governments to work and operate under the laws of their home country while abroad. Does this mean that all foreign diplomats carry a permanent "Get Out of Jail Free" card? Definitely not.
According to the official U.S. Department of State web site, "The purpose of these privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure the efficient and effective performance of their official missions on behalf of their governments. Most of these privileges and immunities are not absolute..." Law enforcement can pursue diplomats who break the law, with the perpetrators usually deported to their home country for prosecution.

In other words Mr Fernandes was not on a official diplomatic mission (especially the second time) so he isn't covered by any type of immunity. Add to that the Indian Embassy repeatedly informed the State Department that he was going to be on the flights in question makes it even worse. Remember how bad the mexicans looked when they interrupted the funeral of that marine by stopping the color guard because they had non functioning rifles? Too bad the SD had done the right thing and informed the local authorities of what the marines were doing, some idiot in Mexico didn't get the memo and caused his country a nice bit of embarrassment.

When u r trying to make sure India keeps the nuclear genie in a bottle, strip searching the Indian Defence minister is not the way to go about it.... :cantbeli:

[ZeroPositive]

first time I heard this happen to a defence minster...????

[Uncle Sam]

They don't "strip" search anymore. It's usually a pat down search. Come on people... :cantbeli:

[usa320]

And they dont do it without reason.

They only strip search if something is detected by metal detectors and wands...

Its a last resort.

And apparently they had some reason to search this man, and im glad they did for the safety of the flying public.

[Fox2]

I'm gonna withhold judgement on whether or not it was "racial profiling" until I know more about the incident, but until there is evidence to that end, I'm gonna have to stick by our airport security people.

In the end, I'd rather have one indignant foreign dignitary than a terrorist getting through the net.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

What?!! An important person subjected to the same rules as the rest of us unwashed rabble?! I won't hear of it!

Let's face it - we all know he was just hassled because he has dark skin, and we Americans hate all dark skinned peoples. Just this morning I was oppressing some folks near my home. Heck, even if the security screener wasn't a Caucasian, I'm sure that it was simply our uniquely American overwhelming racial hatred of "weird" looking foreigners that is to blame here.

Judging by the even-handed tone of his statements, I'm sure this guy was on his very best behavior during his security check, and not being difficult, or indignant when he was questioned. There's no way a security screener doing their job could possibly have singled out this man for additional checks...unless they were racist!

I know I'm not alone in insisting that security screeners ignore all people who act strangely, resist being screened, or physically appear to match the appearance of known terrorists, as this is nothing more than the worst kind of racism. In an effort to ruthlessly egalitarian, we must detain only white girls under the age of 6, or white women over 80 at these checkpoints. Only then can we assure fairness for all.

[brigadeotg]

Security is one thing. But when top diginitaries visit other countries the 'Office of Protocol' in the Foriegn ministry talk to their counterpart in the other country(State dept in case of the US) and decide of protocol, formalities etc. In this case some one in the US screwed up bigtime. Security, strip search blabla is all fine.. but a breakdown of protocol is unheard of when it comes to the defence minister( Who is probably the 2nd or the 3rd most powerful person in India). This leads me to believe this was on purpose or some one did not like the Def minister's statements around that time refusal to send troops to Iraq :roll:

India has more terrorists incidents every day but that does not mean that we ask Rummy(Or heaven forbid Condy Rice!! :D ) to strip down to his boxers :cantbeli: everytime he comes over here.

Oh by the way I have seen the security in US airports during many of my recent visits.., it's ridiculous and pretty stupid to say the least... If you are trying to single out 'Arab looking' men, why don't they say so instead of beating round the bush and trying to maintain some semblance of moral righteousness.. I am sure that would make it much clearer to everyone concerned and make the job much more efficient, fast etc. But noooooooo... we have to maintain moral uprightness, fairness blah blah blah..
More often than not I find old women, 'Arab-looking' men being pulled out for 'special attention'. A lot of times I see these 'Arab' looking men(Including hispanics, africans,asians too :lol: ) amused and having fun at the expense of the security people.
I see them trying to balance moralising/fairness BS with security and end up achieving neither.

[Uncle Sam]

The TSA screeners have a job to do (I know a couple of TSA employees, one, whom I just called). They have rules and an SOP to follow. Do they, the screeners, make these rules...No. Someone who sits behind a desk all day in Washington does.

There is no racial profiling on the part of the screener. The Airlines are the ones who make particular passengers a selected person for extra screening, not the screeners. Also, if this guy set off the walk through metal detector, he has to get wanded. If he sets off the wand, then he has to be screened further to resolve that alarm. If the screener can't resolve the alarm, further screening is necessary, which may involve a private screening, out of view of other passengers. There is no stripping involved in this.

If this guy was searched, there was a reason. An alarm that could not be resolved. He probably had to take off his jacket, or un button a couple buttons on his shirt, and he screams "Strip Search"...Give me a break!

You only see what you want to see.

[shrek]

No, not 9/11, any other highjacking where people were killed, blown up , stabbed, whatever. I assure you though, had we been more careful at the airport, 9/11 or perhaps just a majority of it, would have never happened.

Do you honestly think that these guys knew that he was the Defense Minister and just decided to harass him, come the f..k on! Let's at least try to think in terms of human nature and the lowest common denominator here; the airport security dude (or gal).

PROFILING? I call in common f..king sense. Hmmmm let's see, who should we watch for, a big tall white dude like Shrek? No, no one like that has been targeted as a terrorist. Hmmm, let's see, Fat black women, no, don't wanna upset them. Ummmmmm, I know, let's watch the news and see what these terrorist guys really look like. WHAT? There brown skinned and arabic looking. Why didn't we think of that!

[Trigger]

No, not 9/11, any other highjacking where people were killed, blown up , stabbed, whatever. I assure you though, had we been more careful at the airport, 9/11 or perhaps just a majority of it, would have never happened.

Do you honestly think that these guys knew that he was the Defense Minister and just decided to harass him, come the f..k on! Let's at least try to think in terms of human nature and the lowest common denominator here; the airport security dude (or gal).

PROFILING? I call in common f..king sense. Hmmmm let's see, who should we watch for, a big tall white dude like Shrek? No, no one like that has been targeted as a terrorist. Hmmm, let's see, Fat black women, no, don't wanna upset them. Ummmmmm, I know, let's watch the news and see what these terrorist guys really look like. WHAT? There brown skinned and arabic looking. Why didn't we think of that!
Word.
19 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were what?
The boys who bombed the USS Cole were what?
Hint:
They ain't rednecks.

[wiggle]

The dude prolly had to remove his hemp belt and sandals before the TSA let him board the big aeroplane. Now America "Strip Searched" him come the **** on.

[brigadeotg]

No, not 9/11, any other highjacking where people were killed, blown up , stabbed, whatever. I assure you though, had we been more careful at the airport, 9/11 or perhaps just a majority of it, would have never happened.

Do you honestly think that these guys knew that he was the Defense Minister and just decided to harass him, come the f..k on! Let's at least try to think in terms of human nature and the lowest common denominator here; the airport security dude (or gal).

PROFILING? I call in common f..king sense. Hmmmm let's see, who should we watch for, a big tall white dude like Shrek? No, no one like that has been targeted as a terrorist. Hmmm, let's see, Fat black women, no, don't wanna upset them. Ummmmmm, I know, let's watch the news and see what these terrorist guys really look like. WHAT? There brown skinned and arabic looking. Why didn't we think of that!

Dude, he was on an official visit for friggin' sake. He is normally met the by the protocol officer from the State dept, representatives from the Indian embassy and other personnel. they normally don't even go through security checks etc i.e only if he is of the rank of Prime minister or other people of cabinet rank. Normally the protocol officer and others(Including in this case, the Indian ambassador to the US) are supposed to take care of such things.. but I have no idea what the state dept person was doing or if he was there in the first place. I am pretty sure that the State dept screwed up since historically have no love lost for India and this is to be expected from them. But to do this to the Defence minister.. :roll:

Do you seriously think that Tony blair or Jack Straw is subject to such treatment? Gimme a f'...g break. Do you think when Condy and Rummy and Armitage etc show up in India, they are asked to go thro' security checks, shoes check, undy check...etc High level ministers and the likes are very time constrained people and they normally they are not required to go thro' such formalities. In India when they are on a official visit, they are met by the protocol officer and all other things are taken care of behind the scenes so that they are least inconvenienced.

No the security people probably did not know that he was a defence minister. But I am surprised it even went to that. Wow and to think that the protocol officer or whoever the hell it was from the State Dept was sitting on his ass and doing such a wonderful job just makes me suspicious.

Uncle Sam's Pissed,
No one is blaming the TSA screeners. It was not their job to identify and sort people. I am just surprised it even came to the point where he had to go thro' a security check. It just isn't normal protocol. Again I just don't see Rummy go thro' this in India not because he doesn't look like a terrorist or some such reason but just because such high level visits are co-ordinated months before the actual visit and there's no room for error in such cases. All this makes me suspicious as to why he was treated in that manner and I keep coming back to the obvious reason....




Word.
19 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were what?
what?
Hint:
They ain't rednecks.

19 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Indian? No
19 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Christian? No
Any of the of 19 hijackers has the name George Fernandes? No..
The boys who bombed the USS Cole were Indian? No
Any of the of 19 hijackers a defence minister? No

But wait ...is the guy brown and arab looking? Hellya.. Let's search him :roll:
Go fly a kite

[Trigger]

Yeah, whatever.
How callous of us to be even slightly suspicious of 'brown Arab looking men'. It must be simple good old U.S. racism again. :roll:

[Uncle Sam]

There's more to this story (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/774093.cms). Personally, I think this Fernandes guy is, how do you say it...Overexaggerating, a bit???


BANGALORE: Former Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani on Sunday said he had never been strip-searched in US airports and he would talk to NDA Convenor George Fernandes, who as Defence Minister had reportedly undergone such an exercise twice.


"I did not face it during my visits", Advani replied to questions on reports from Washington quoting former Deputy Secretary of state Strobe Talbott that Fernandes was strip-searched twice in Dulles Airport when he was Defence Minister.

The BJP leader maintained that shedding of shoes and socks was a normal security check and officials who accompanied them had to undergo that but wondered whether that can be called strip-search.

If such incidents had implications, Advani said he believed Fernandes would have brought up the subject which was not the case.

Advani also expressed the view that it would not be correct for the Indian Government to protest this (shedding of shoes and socks for security check) as all passengers are subjected to such a procedure.

But he said he would certainly talk to Fernandes to find out the facts. Though he found it strange to liken shedding of shoes and socks to strip-check.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Let's conduct an online experiment.

First I will show a list of 22 wanted terrorists. Then I will show three groups of people. You, as the security guard may interview only one of the three groups, since time and resources are short (as in real life). Ready...

Here are the terrorists.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/22-most-wanted-terrorist.jpg

Now group one.
http://www.ekelerphoto.com/brides-grandmothers.gif

Group two.
http://www.orient.art.pl/W-obronie-Moqtada-al-Sadr-3.jpg

..and group three
http://www.european-go.org/oza2002/photos/55-children.jpg

So which group do you interview? What?! Group two? Based on what? Oh you miserable racist bastards!! :lol:

[brigadeotg]

Let's conduct an online experiment.

First I will show a list of 22 wanted terrorists. Then I will show three groups of people. You, as the security guard may interview only one of the three groups, since time and resources are short (as in real life). Ready...

Here are the terrorists.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/22-most-wanted-terrorist.jpg

Now group one.
http://www.ekelerphoto.com/brides-grandmothers.gif

Group two.
http://www.orient.art.pl/W-obronie-Moqtada-al-Sadr-3.jpg

..and group three
http://www.european-go.org/oza2002/photos/55-children.jpg

So which group do you interview? What?! Group two? Based on what? Oh you miserable racist bastards!! :lol:

Dude,
Do u even read or maybe even pretend to? :roll: Who is questioning the security guards? It's not their fault that the DM was asked to proceed to a checkpoint? The point being why was he even lead there in the first place?
And yes, I agree with you..... atleast from my own experience. It's not funny watching good ol' grandma being asked to remove her shoes, medication and even spectacles once. Security? Don't make me laugh.

[ronin2172]

No, not 9/11, any other highjacking where people were killed, blown up , stabbed, whatever. I assure you though, had we been more careful at the airport, 9/11 or perhaps just a majority of it, would have never happened.*

** Do you honestly think that these guys knew that he was the Defense Minister and just decided to harass him, come the f..k on! Let's at least try to think in terms of human nature and the lowest common denominator here; the airport security dude (or gal).

*** PROFILING? I call in common f..king sense. Hmmmm let's see, who should we watch for, a big tall white dude like Shrek? No, no one like that has been targeted as a terrorist. Hmmm, let's see, Fat black women, no, don't wanna upset them. Ummmmmm, I know, let's watch the news and see what these terrorist guys really look like. WHAT? There brown skinned and arabic looking. Why didn't we think of that!
*No doubt that pre 9/11 airport security was lax...but even if it was tighter it still would have been hard to say we could have prevented any hijacking, how many US domestic flights have been hijacked pre 9/11?

** I'm not saying that the security people knew he was a defence minister, it really isn't their fault, if any one is to blame it's the state department, the indians apparently informed them that he would be present, they should have had someone there to make sure everything was kosher.

***The problem with profiling is terrorists come in all shapes and sizes....not all brown skinned arab looking males r terrorists like not all black males aged 18-35, driving a import car down i-95 are drug couriers....what r the chances some blonde haired, blue eyed guy from sweden is a terrorist? That chance is greater than a lot of people think.I remember reading a time article where russians had recovered a video tape showing foriegn fighters in chechneya. They had people from all over, one was from Sweden, another was a phys ed teacher from the UK. If all your looking for is Arab males then that's all you r gonna find, who knows what might slip through.

[Uncle Sam]

Read this....

Go ahead...click HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19570)

He was searched by officers of the US Immigration and Naturalization Service. But there is more to this story...

[Kilgor]

anyone who doesnt believe in racial profiling need to wake up and live in the real world.

:cantbeli:

[shrek]

"not all black males aged 18-35, driving a import car down i-95 are drug couriers".

Sorry, my puter won't do the quote thingy!

No, they're not all drug couriers but if you knew one was in a crowd of cars would you stop me (big tall white dude in a minivan) or him. Come on, my father was a cop for 30 years and he'll tell you to call a spade a spade.

When I was in A-stan it got weird; "Now what do we do, they're all Arab looking?" We had to find some defining characteristics even within the group of extremely similar looking people. When we did, we keyed on it!!!!! So, what do we have to do to catch these guys before they kill your sister or brother, my mother or your neighbor? We have to find a defining characteristic! Which, in this case is simple, they're Arab looking men between the ages of 18 and 35. Racism? If so, then I guess my church going, multi-racial congregation/workplace attending soul, is a racist one. But really, I don't think so!!

[ronin2172]

:cantbeli: lol ok if that version is true then it ain't a big deal @uncle sam

[shrek]

Racial profiling is a catch phrase twisted to mean something ugly. You know, like the word "God".

Racial profiling = Calling a spade a spade


I've said it before; There's two things that I hate, Racial Profiling and Arabs on my airline flight!

[ronin2172]

"not all black males aged 18-35, driving a import car down i-95 are drug couriers".

Sorry, my puter won't do the quote thingy!

No, they're not all drug couriers but if you knew one was in a crowd of cars would you stop me (big tall white dude in a minivan) or him. Come on, my father was a cop for 30 years and he'll tell you to call a spade a spade.
When I was in A-stan it got weird; "Now what do we do, they're all Arab looking?" We had to find some defining characteristics even within the group of extremely similar looking people. When we did, we keyed on it!!!!! So, what do we have to do to catch these guys before they kill your sister or brother, my mother or your neighbor? We have to find a defining characteristic! Which, in this case is simple, they're Arab looking men between the ages of 18 and 35. Racism? If so, then I guess my church going, multi-racial congregation/workplace attending soul, is a racist one. But really, I don't think so!!
key phrase IF....but if all you stop r black males then there are a whole slew of other people will get through. What's to stop a drug dealer approaching a 20 year old white female who looks like a co-ed and asking her to drop a package off in Daytona Beach for a couple hundred bucks? But since the cops are falling over themselves to pull over black males guess who gets through with no problem?

What u r describing in a'stan is different...we r talking about a multi ethnic population, which i think doesn't apply there.

[ronin2172]

oh really kilgor...what is the real world? Tell me please... :cantbeli:

[brigadeotg]

Racial profiling is a catch phrase twisted to mean something ugly. You know, like the word "God".

Racial profiling = Calling a spade a spade


I've said it before; There's two things that I hate, Racial Profiling and Arabs on my airline flight!

Shrek,
This is what I am saying. If you want to search 'Arab looking'(whatever that means) people, I'd rather they just go ahead and say it and consequences be damned. I mean, that is what they are doing, why not just go ahead and say it? What are they afraid of anyway? That way they save a lot of problems to a lot of people. The one thing I hate is double-faced logic. If you cannot own up and be straight up in whatever u are doing you are nothing but a ***sy.

Also, "Racial Profiling" and "Arabs on my airline flight" are not mutually exclusive :D :D How do you know they are Arabs anyway?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Dude,
Do u even read or maybe even pretend to? :roll: Who is questioning the security guards? It's not their fault that the DM was asked to proceed to a checkpoint? The point being why was he even lead there in the first place?
And yes, I agree with you..... atleast from my own experience. It's not funny watching good ol' grandma being asked to remove her shoes, medication and even spectacles once. Security? Don't make me laugh.

Hey, I never mentioned the security guards in this situation, nor did I even mention at all this particular situation with the Indian DM. I posed a theoretical situation in which the reader assumed the role of a security guard - which of course is alluding to the mechanics of the entire screening system.

What I was trying to do was to respond to the statements of a few here who've said that profiling doesn't work. I think it's pretty obvious that while it may be un-PC and upsetting to some, it certainly does work.

[Deuterium]

Here in Colorado Springs a local policeman received praise and recognition for finding a larger number of criminals during last year. His technique? He patrols around hotels and motels and looks for cars license plates held on with only one screw. It seems when crooks switch license plates some don't put all the screws back on. Now how many innocent people were stopped during this search? I sure didn't here anyone screaming profiling on this but I would submit there is not much difference between this and racial profiling. Both make suppositions on guilt based solely on one specific characteristic.

[ronin2172]

Here in Colorado Springs a local policeman received praise and recognition for finding a larger number of criminals during last year. His technique? He patrols around hotels and motels and looks for cars license plates held on with only one screw. It seems when crooks switch license plates some don't put all the screws back on. Now how many innocent people were stopped during this search? I sure didn't here anyone screaming profiling on this but I would submit there is not much difference between this and racial profiling. Both make suppositions on guilt based solely on one specific characteristic.
how can u compare basing suspicion of guilt between a screw on a license plate to the color of a man's skin? :cantbeli:

[Herrmannek]

Here in Colorado Springs a local policeman received praise and recognition for finding a larger number of criminals during last year. His technique? He patrols around hotels and motels and looks for cars license plates held on with only one screw. It seems when crooks switch license plates some don't put all the screws back on. Now how many innocent people were stopped during this search? I sure didn't here anyone screaming profiling on this but I would submit there is not much difference between this and racial profiling. Both make suppositions on guilt based solely on one specific characteristic.

Every kind of hashing brings False Positives.. this is how those methods works and anyone bashing them is plain stupid...

Same thing is with mamography... only 5% of positive results isn't False Positives, so whe should stop making that examinations to not stress patients? :cantbeli:

[ronin2172]

i give up....now people r using mamograms as a comparison....profiling can be effective...but there is more to it than the color of a man's skin.
When profiling was started in airports to catch mules...race, gender, and age were not factors....the red flags were destination and/or point of origin, whether u purchased your ticket with cash the same day u r travelling...and if u have little to no luggage....using this simple and fair formula it was a great success....however race has been added to the formula, and has become the defining aspect of the profile...which acts on the stereotype that all black males between the ages of 18- 35 r criminals or potential criminals... yes sooner or later u will catch someone, the law of averages ensures that. Drug dealers aren't completely stupid...they know what the cops r looking for and it would be prudent for them to use people who don't fit the profile...

[Trigger]

...however race has been added to the formula
That's the fault of the perps.

[Deuterium]

Here in Colorado Springs a local policeman received praise and recognition for finding a larger number of criminals during last year. His technique? He patrols around hotels and motels and looks for cars license plates held on with only one screw. It seems when crooks switch license plates some don't put all the screws back on. Now how many innocent people were stopped during this search? I sure didn't here anyone screaming profiling on this but I would submit there is not much difference between this and racial profiling. Both make suppositions on guilt based solely on one specific characteristic.
how can u compare basing suspicion of guilt between a screw on a license plate to the color of a man's skin? :cantbeli:

So if I'm singled out by this cop because of my license plate, it is not as offensive as DWB(driving while black)?????? It's the same thing!!! Neither is based upon 100% correlation of differentiation statistic and guilt. They are based on averages. 1% of people with bad license plates are guilty or 1% of , pick your skin color, are criminals. I was just trying to show that profiling goes on around us all the time and sometimes we think it's great. Me I'll trust my local cop who has been catching criminals for years.

[ronin2172]

it is not the same thing...no where near the same thing...u r assuming that a man is a criminal by the color of his skin...not his actions...so a black man driving down the street is automatically guilty of a crime? If i recall an irregularity with a license plate is a traffic violation and a police officer can pull u over for that...last time i checked driving while black isn't illegal or a traffic violation

[Kilgor]

No.. we are saying there is a higher risk or percentage of him being a criminal because of his country of origin or ethnic profile. Its racism, its just cold hard data.

[ronin2172]

cold hard data....

according to research done by the DOJ Blacks 11.0% and latinos 11.3 % are more likely than whites 5.4% to be searched during a traffic stop.

Blacks made up 11.6% of the drivers stopped but 19.4% of the drivers searched. Latinos made up 8.4% of the drivers stopped but 14.4 % of the drivers searched...while whites made up 77% of the stopped drivers and 63.2% of the drivers searched.

The question is; Are blacks really committing more crimes or are they just caught more often because the police target them?

[BlackRain]

anyone who doesnt believe in racial profiling need to wake up and live in the real world.




This Defense Minister and most of you are full of ****. You really have no idea of what you are talking about.

Past vice Presidents of the USA and members of Congress have had similar experiences going through airport security.


Even well-known politicians have been frisked. Former Vice President Dan Quayle, for one, has complained about being rudely subjected to unnecessarily intense searching at airport security. Two weeks ago, a 75-year-old congressman, John Dingell of Michigan, was led into an airport security room and strip-searched after steel pins in his artificial hip set off a metal detector.

Is this racial profiling too?

[BlackRain]

Australian authorities have defended their decision to search the New Zealand Prime Minister for explosives at Sydney Airport last month.

Helen Clark was on her way to the Middle East to visit troops when her Emirates flight landed in Australia.

She was searched while being escorted by an Australian official and despite security staff being told who she was. The Prime Minister was "picked randomly" from a queue for a body scan with a new explosives detection device.

Australian Tourism Minister Joe Hockey said the search had been an embarrassing error and he hoped it would not happen again. But a spokesman for Deputy Prime Minister and Transport Minister John Anderson told the New Zealand Heraldthere was no embarrassment at security staff's actions.

He said he wasn't aware any apology had been made or was being planned, and no complaint had been received from Helen Clark or the New Zealand Government.

Australian officials say the New Zealand authorities failed to notify ceremonial and hospitality officials in advance.

Asked on radio what would have happened if Australian Prime Minister John Howard had been searched entering New Zealand, Prime Minister Clark replied: "There'd be an outroar."

[2Sheds_Jackson]

cold hard data....

according to research done by the DOJ Blacks 11.0% and latinos 11.3 % are more likely than whites 5.4% to be searched during a traffic stop.

Blacks made up 11.6% of the drivers stopped but 19.4% of the drivers searched. Latinos made up 8.4% of the drivers stopped but 14.4 % of the drivers searched...while whites made up 77% of the stopped drivers and 63.2% of the drivers searched.

The question is; Are blacks really committing more crimes or are they just caught more often because the police target them?

I don't want to hijack the thread & turn it into a racism discussion...but I'll just say what's on my mind & leave it at that.

Firstly, your own example kind of takes the air out of your argument. By that I mean - blacks make up about 12.9% of the general population, whites about 77.1, hispanics about 12.5. So if anything can be taken from your example - it's that blacks are pulled over less than they should be, and after being questioned, arouse suspicion and are more often searched. If there truly was a "race" issue here, we'd expect them to be pulled over more to begin with, no?

So these searches are not based on race, but based on interviews & observations of the vehicle.

What this really relates to is social class, not race. The poor are the ones primarily targeted by the police (for obvious reasons). Minorities make up a far larger percentage of those in poverty vs. compared with the total population.

There are of course a myriad of other factors. Look at the stats on the census website http://ferret.bls.census.gov/macro/032003/pov/new03_000.htm

The racial breakdown of the population in poverty according to 2000 CDC/census data is:
9.1 % white
24.9 % black
25.8 % american indian/alaskan
12% asian
22.6% hispanic

In addition, the very worst of the poor can be easily identified demographically - broken home, no husband present, 15-28 years of age etc. and more likely to be a minority than in the general (non-poor) population. Minority population in poverty also tended to be urban, while whites were only half as much so.

Your question also supposes that police are "targeting them" simply because of color, which I do not accept. Police spend their time & resources on activities that generate the most results. They don't waste their time bursting into mini-mansions in upscale neighborhoods. They're more likely to find illegal activity in a bad neighborhood. In other words - they are usually right, despite all the hand wringing about inequities.

So there is much more in play than simply race.

The race pimps have taught us to see everything through the lens of race. After all, it's their bread & butter. Far from wanting to create a true "color-blind" society, the race whores have created racial hyper-sensitivity, which keeps them and their lawyers in Armani suits. They've made race everything to us. We've got to have the courage to simply face the realities we're presented with, despite that some may find it unpalatable.

The same lines of logic can be applied to terrorism. If we were to construct a pie graph of what percentage of Islamo-terrorists looked a certain way, I suspect it would heavily favor those who look Arab. While it should not be the only criteria, it certainly should not be completely discarded because it makes people feel bad.

[/rant off]