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Thugut
10-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Associated Press Ida May Fuller in 1950, at age 76, when her benefits increased. She received the first Social Security check in 1940.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/28/business/28leonhardt_CA0/articleInline.jpg A Drop in the Wrong Bucket

By DAVID LEONHARDT (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/david_leonhardt/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: October 27, 2009
If you wanted to help the economy and you had $14 billion to bestow on any group of people, which group would you choose:



a) Teenagers and young adults, who have an 18 percent unemployment rate.
b) All the middle-age long-term jobless who, for various reasons, are not eligible for unemployment benefits.
c) The taxpayers of the future (by using the $14 billion to pay down the deficit).
d) The group that has survived the Great Recession probably better than any other, with stronger income growth, fewer job cuts and little loss of health insurance.
The Obama administration has chosen option d — people in their 60s and beyond.
The president has proposed sending a $250 check to every Social Security (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/social_security_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) recipient, which sounds pretty good at first. The checks would be part of his admirable efforts to stimulate the economy, and older Americans are clearly a sympathetic group. Next year, they are scheduled to receive no cost-of-living increase (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/social-security-cola/) in their Social Security benefits.
Yet that is largely because they received an artificially high 5.8 percent increase this year. For this reason and others, economists are generally recoiling at the proposal.
President Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per)’s own economic advisers raised objections, as my colleague Jackie Calmes has reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/us/politics/22deficit.html). Isabel Sawhill (http://www.brookings.edu/experts/s/sawhilli.aspx) of the Brookings Institution (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/b/brookings_institution/index.html?inline=nyt-org) told me she thought the idea was crazy — and then noted she was in her 70s. Rosanne Altshuler (http://www.urban.org/publications/901191.html), co-director of the Tax Policy Center in Washington, says that the checks “seem to be pure pandering to seniors.”
Indeed, the politics are attractive. People over 65 vote in large numbers. Saying no to them is never easy.
And therein lies a problem that’s much larger than one misguided $14 billion proposal.
With the economy gradually improving, members of Congress and White House officials are just starting to think more seriously about the budget deficit. Fifty-three senators voted down (http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/325) a narrow health care bill last week, with many citing its potential impact on the budget. On Monday, Christina Romer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/christina_d_romer/index.html?inline=nyt-per), the chairwoman of Mr. Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/w/white_house_council_of_economic_advisers/index.html?inline=nyt-org), gave a speech (http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/HealthCareDeficit.pdf) in which she said the deficit was “simply not a problem that can be kicked down the road indefinitely.”
Just about everybody agrees that solving the deficit depends on reducing the benefits (http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=328) that current law has promised to retirees, via Medicare (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicare/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and Social Security. That’s not how people usually put it, of course. They tend to use the more soothing phrase “entitlement reform.” But entitlement reform is just another way of saying that we can’t pay more in benefits than we collect in taxes.
“If the long-term issue is entitlement reform,” says Joel Slemrod (http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/departments/busecon/faculty/slemrod/bio.html), a University of Michigan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_michigan/index.html?inline=nyt-org) economist, “the fact that the political system cannot say no to $250 checks to elderly people is a bad sign.”

The first Social Security check was mailed in 1940 to Ida May Fuller (http://www.ssa.gov/history/imf.html), a retired legal secretary in Ludlow, Vt. It was for $22.54. Every month for the next 10 years, Ms. Fuller received a check for that same amount.
The original Social Security legislation had not included an inflation adjustment, which meant benefits did not keep up with the cost of living. A decade later, Ms. Fuller’s checks were worth about 40 percent less in real terms than when she started receiving them.
Congress finally increased benefits in 1950 and then continued to do so in fits and starts, sometimes faster than inflation, sometimes slower and usually in an election year. President Richard M. Nixon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/n/richard_milhous_nixon/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and a Democratic Congress brought some order to this process in 1972, by automatically tying benefits (http://www.ssa.gov/history/nixstmts.html#debt) to the movement of an inflation index in the previous year.
The changes were part of the transformation, during the middle decades of the 20th century, in how this country treated the elderly. In the 1930s, they had little safety net and frequently struggled to meet their basic needs. Four decades later, they were the only group of Americans with guaranteed health care and a guaranteed income. All in all, it was certainly for the good.
But by the 1970s, you could start to see the early signs of excess. In their bill, Mr. Nixon and Congress included a little bonus: the increase in Social Security payments could never be less than 3 percent, no matter what inflation was. In the 1980s, Congress reduced the floor (http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/reports/crsleghist3.html) to zero — meaning that benefits would be held constant if prices fell — but the principle remained the same: heads, it’s a tie; tails, Social Security recipients win.
This year, the coin finally came up tails.
With oil prices plunging and other prices falling, last year’s high inflation (which led to the 5.8 percent increase in Social Security payments) has turned into deflation (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/d/deflation_economics/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). Overall prices have dropped 2.1 percent in the last year, according to the relevant price index (http://www.narfe.org/departments/home/articles.cfm?ID=942).
Social Security payments, however, will remain as they were, which means that recipients are already set to receive an effective raise, even without Mr. Obama’s $250 checks. No matter what happens with that proposal, 2010 will be the first year since at least the Nixon era that the buying power of an individual worker’s Social Security goes up.
Compare that to what’s happening with minimum-wage workers in Colorado. Their wage is also tied to inflation, but it has no floor. So it will fall slightly (http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_13547177) next year, to keep pace with prices.
Now, I understand that there are arguments on the other side of the issue. Lawrence Summers (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/lawrence_h_summers/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Mr. Obama’s top economics aide, pointed out that the stimulus bill included one-time $250 payments for Social Security recipients, which were sent out this year, but tax cuts for workers both this year and next year. “We’re correcting an anomaly,” he told me.
Others will argue that the elderly simply need help. Some have been the victim of age discrimination. Too many still live in poverty. All of them are likely to see their Medicare copayments rise in 2010. This recession (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/r/recession_and_depression/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) has spared no group.
But older Americans really have survived the recession better than most.
Many of them started buying assets years if not decades ago, meaning they were not the main victims of the stock and housing bubbles. They had a cushion. In addition, relatively few of them work in manufacturing or construction, the hardest-hit industries.
Just consider: The real median income of over-65 households rose 3 percent from 2000 to 2008. For households headed by somebody age 25 to 44, it fell about 7 percent.
Economic policy, like most everything else, is about making choices. Mr. Obama is choosing the elderly, rich and poor, to be more worthy of $14 billion in government checks than struggling workers or schoolchildren. Republicans have pandered in their own ways, choosing to oppose just about any cut in Medicare (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/07/business/07leonhardt.html) and, in effect, to stick your grandchildren with an enormous tax bill.
In a way, I understand where the politicians are coming from. We voters may say that we are in favor of cutting the deficit, but usually mean it in only the theoretical sense. Who wants their own benefits cut? For that matter, who is even willing to have their Social Security checks hold steady?http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/business/economy/28leonhardt.html

Well, the way I see, there is only 1 proper solution:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8475/c8da78fa57622191de261ed.jpg

p-)

LineDoggie
10-28-2009, 05:18 PM
Ahh, but the Elderly is the One Reliable consistant voting bloc. Think about the last time you went to vote. It's usually the retirees who run the machines and go through the sign in rolls. The Polling site is usually packed with seniors all day long. If any 1 group could unseat Obama in 2012 its the senior voters. Obama pisses them off at his own political risk.

Connaught Ranger
10-28-2009, 05:19 PM
God bless the elderly, the fought WW2 for us and deserve a reward, its also a known fact they will probably spend the money than save it for their selfish offspring.p-)

vryhpyammoadded
10-28-2009, 08:51 PM
God bless the elderly, the fought WW2 for us and deserve a reward, its also a known fact they will probably spend the money than save it for their selfish offspring.
My thoughts exactly but I might add, just you wait and see how badly their kids and grand kids will slit their throats to alleviate the decades of mismanagement of the greatest generations retirement. Sorry mom, pop, grand dad… we pissed all your investments away and it’s time to survive! It’s over the side with yah, ker splash… sorry you had to drown for our ignorance and avarice.

Zarak
10-28-2009, 08:52 PM
To be honest, I'm pretty pissed that my generation gets the shaft and we're going to be the ones who have to pay for all this bull**** spending a few decades from now. On top of which, Social Security won't even exist by the time we need it...but we're still required to pay into it.

gaijinsamurai
10-28-2009, 09:25 PM
Ahh, but the Elderly is the One Reliable consistant voting bloc. Think about the last time you went to vote. It's usually the retirees who run the machines and go through the sign in rolls. The Polling site is usually packed with seniors all day long. If any 1 group could unseat Obama in 2012 its the senior voters. Obama pisses them off at his own political risk.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Flagg
10-28-2009, 09:50 PM
Radical fiscal/monetary restructuring is very much needed.

Anyone suffered from ADD and who thinks we are "in the clear" from the past 1-2 years mess is in for a wakeup call.

The post WWII years have been a gift in many ways for the US....and that very hardwon and costly gift has been horribly abused.

We're quickly approaching a point of no return for the US as a declining power(relatively speaking).

In the post Soviet collapse, the US achieved it's military and economc zenith.

It is a very difficult position to maintain indefinitely, especially when government and special interests act in such self-interest that it equates to premeditated and intentional self-destruction.

commanding
10-28-2009, 10:04 PM
To be honest, I'm pretty pissed that my generation gets the shaft and we're going to be the ones who have to pay for all this bull**** spending a few decades from now. On top of which, Social Security won't even exist by the time we need it...but we're still required to pay into it.

As one member of MPNET who actually gets a SS check each month now (since July), I feel like I should recuse myself from the discussion. However being the big loudmouth I am....I won't. :)
I also contributed to SS my entire working life, from the time I was about 16 years of age working construction, to this year. The original concept of SS may have been fine, but politicians have screwed it up, by grabbing those funds and spending them, rather than using them as a savings cushion for SS recipients (which is what they expect us all to do, save money for our own retirements).
So be pissed, everyone has that right. SS may or may not be there when you retire...just like VA medical benefits may or may not be there when you need them (assuming you are a vet like me). I would not be surprised to see the govt to wheddle away VA medical benefits for those serving in military now, when the rubber hits the road in 40 years.

Flagg
10-28-2009, 10:36 PM
As one member of MPNET who actually gets a SS check each month now (since July), I feel like I should recuse myself from the discussion. However being the big loudmouth I am....I won't. :)
I also contributed to SS my entire working life, from the time I was about 16 years of age working construction, to this year. The original concept of SS may have been fine, but politicians have screwed it up, by grabbing those funds and spending them, rather than using them as a savings cushion for SS recipients (which is what they expect us all to do, save money for our own retirements).
So be pissed, everyone has that right. SS may or may not be there when you retire...just like VA medical benefits may or may not be there when you need them (assuming you are a vet like me). I would not be surprised to see the govt to wheddle away VA medical benefits for those serving in military now, when the rubber hits the road in 40 years.

You are MORE than entitled mate.

You'll never receive any argument from me.

I contributed a nice chunk before I became an expat a long time ago......and my parents(who both just started receiving their bennies) keep hounding me to ensure I don't forget about my entitlement and I tell them the same thing:

I think of SS as a lottery.......lots of folks have won....some more so than others(in terms of REAL inflation adjusted benefits compaired to contribution)....and many who will ultimately lose the lottery just haven't lost yet.

Looking at it as a lottery leaves a bit of the negative emotion out of it. It also helps keep the mindset of me never, ever, never relying on it to fund my retirement someday.

Uncle Sam can keep my contribution......since it was already spent over the last two and a half decades...the last "IOU" I had from SS sent in the mail to show my future entitlement already went in the woodburner a winter or two back :)

My only hope is that it becomes a "front of mind" issue to be properly addressed sooner rather than later.

While I would love to see more active political involvement from those aged 18-50-ish like what is found in the AARP...I suspect when it occurs it will be in absolute and direct oppostion to the AARP's position protecting retirees and soon to be retirees.

I think the odds of intergenerational conflict are going to rise unfortunately.

Nano
10-28-2009, 10:49 PM
You are MORE than entitled mate.

You'll never receive any argument from me.

I contributed a nice chunk before I became an expat a long time ago......and my parents(who both just started receiving their bennies) keep hounding me to ensure I don't forget about my entitlement and I tell them the same thing:

I think of SS as a lottery.......lots of folks have won....some more so than others(in terms of REAL inflation adjusted benefits compaired to contribution)....and many who will ultimately lose the lottery just haven't lost yet.

Looking at it as a lottery leaves a bit of the negative emotion out of it. It also helps keep the mindset of me never, ever, never relying on it to fund my retirement someday.

Uncle Sam can keep my contribution......since it was already spent over the last two and a half decades...the last "IOU" I had from SS sent in the mail to show my future entitlement already went in the woodburner a winter or two back :)

My only hope is that it becomes a "front of mind" issue to be properly addressed sooner rather than later.

While I would love to see more active political involvement from those aged 18-50-ish like what is found in the AARP...I suspect when it occurs it will be in absolute and direct oppostion to the AARP's position protecting retirees and soon to be retirees.

I think the odds of intergenerational conflict are going to rise unfortunately.

There is no need for it go that far. The "retired" should get what they paid in no doubt. I however and others will demand that we are given the freedom to choose to opt out of the largest social financial scam in history as of yet. The crooks (Politicians,and FIRE) have gotten together and decided that extending an artificial bubble (http://www.cnbc.com/id/33493223) is the greatest idea yet to screw the working stiffs. I look forward to the day the patched up bubble finally gives way to complete structural failure.

Zarak
10-28-2009, 10:50 PM
As one member of MPNET who actually gets a SS check each month now (since July), I feel like I should recuse myself from the discussion. However being the big loudmouth I am....I won't. :)
I also contributed to SS my entire working life, from the time I was about 16 years of age working construction, to this year. The original concept of SS may have been fine, but politicians have screwed it up, by grabbing those funds and spending them, rather than using them as a savings cushion for SS recipients (which is what they expect us all to do, save money for our own retirements).
So be pissed, everyone has that right. SS may or may not be there when you retire...just like VA medical benefits may or may not be there when you need them (assuming you are a vet like me). I would not be surprised to see the govt to wheddle away VA medical benefits for those serving in military now, when the rubber hits the road in 40 years.

I don't resent the fact that you receive SS, you paid into it and that's your right. Social Security is expected to go bankrupt in the next decade or two, which is a few decades too soon for me to get my piece of the pie. That doesn't bother me too much, I guess.

What bothers me is the ballooning national debt. You'll be dead, no offense, before we even begin to start paying it off, while those roughly my age will be footed with the bill. Politicians only think in the here and now - 'what will get me elected again' - instead of worrying about who is going to pay for the stupid **** they come up with after they're long gone.

commanding
10-28-2009, 11:01 PM
I don't resent the fact that you receive SS, you paid into it and that's your right. Social Security is expected to go bankrupt in the next decade or two, which is a few decades too soon for me to get my piece of the pie. That doesn't bother me too much, I guess.

What bothers me is the ballooning national debt. You'll be dead, no offense, before we even begin to start paying it off, while those roughly my age will be footed with the bill. Politicians only think in the here and now - 'what will get me elected again' - instead of worrying about who is going to pay for the stupid **** they come up with after they're long gone.
I agree totally with your stance, the national debt is ludicrous.
I have no idea how "they" will finally solve that problem...there have been many shifty solutions to national debt before.
Debt incurred by the nation against itself, during the civil war (or war for southern independence if you are a southerner) was "solved" by printing more paper money...and this was back when paper money was backed by either silver or gold. the currency printed that represented the debt was called "united states notes" I believe and had a red seal to my memory.

Until the US and other democratic countries wake up and stop electing people who are as dishonest as those we seem to have in power recently/today, then we are going to continue to face a landslide of debt, trickery, and pea and the shell game con artists handling our tax money.

commanding
10-28-2009, 11:04 PM
BTW, off topic but I am seriously concerned that the US govt will continue to degrade veterans healthcare for vets, with the large numbers of vets we will have in coming years.

Zarak
10-28-2009, 11:09 PM
BTW, off topic but I am seriously concerned that the US govt will continue to degrade veterans healthcare for vets, with the large numbers of vets we will have in coming years.

I sure as hell hope not. The elderly and veterans are the only two groups I really believe should have access to benefits no matter what. I don't give a **** if some crackhead in Detroit starves to death, but we as a society must take care of our elderly and veterans.