question: why arent the us forces in sudan?

[deutschersoldat]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

[He219]

Now that was a lame statement, deutschersoldat.

I don't see you volunteering ....
:roll:

[ronin2172]

if u feel so strongly about it how about getting germany and france to roll up their sleeves and show the rest of us how it's done....oops those governments lack the backbone to try, sorry my mistake

[Moledet]

You got the wrong thread for flaming, the right thread for flaming is called:"about nothing (was about Jews and Poles)".

[Bombtrack]

Sudan has a lot of oil genius

[Romulus]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

How bout doing some research before you post some lame ass topic up.

Sudan has a shat load of oil. :backhand:

[Midav]

Now that was a lame statement, deutschersoldat.

I don't see you volunteering ....
:roll:

Amen to that. While we're at it, why isn't the UN over there.....?

[He219]

Didn't France just block a UN draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs?

Am I to take it that this time diplomacy has already failed and that troops now are needed on the ground?

;)



http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/images/image004.jpg
OIL CONCESSIONS IN CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN SUDAN AS OF AUGUST 2002

[Kilgor]

yes...
its the united states job to fix everything... (and europeans to complain about it)

As said before, why dont the french and german's get off their asses and help out ...

Africa is of course europe's mess.

[Deuterium]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

Sorry buddy, you are an idiot for not doing some research before you posted.

[Secret Squirrel]

Didn't France just block a UN draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs?

Am I to take it that this time diplomacy has already failed and that troops now are needed on the ground?

;)

Maybe you could offer some examples where economic sanctions worked when imposed against Militias ? ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

Sorry buddy, you are an idiot for not doing some research before you posted.

No need for any research to make a flame thread.

[Deuterium]

Didn't France just block a UN draft resolution imposing sanctions on militias accused of "ethnic cleansing" against non-Arabs?

Am I to take it that this time diplomacy has already failed and that troops now are needed on the ground?

;)

Maybe you could offer some examples where economic sanctions worked when imposed against Militias ? ;)

Well it's better than doing nothing which is what's going on right now.

[Javehn]

You should ask Icchhabe about that , he himself is a part of a Sudan task force that can be deployed in 3 hours . The fact is interesting , how they aren't getting deployed thought .
And I think there are also African UN peacekeeping forces in Sudan (thought it don't help much) , and there are santcions imposed .

The problem is (in very simple way) that Sudan is pretty huge , and weak government has very few power and the outscirts of the country , allowing militias rule there .

[radon]

economic sanctions against Sudan will make things only worse. And the militias would be the least affected anyway...

[Mongrel]

radon wrote: "economic sanctions against Sudan will make things only worse. And the militias would be the least affected anyway..."

Exactlly what I was going to say.
In fact economic sanctions might only serve to help the militias, and thugs to control/eleminate the population further.

The UN needs its own military for this kinda' stuff.

Happy thoughts!
M.

[cut]

the US isn't their because it's streched enough as it is in afghanistan and Iraq. Same goes for the UK.

Kilgor if you want to blame Sudan on Europe, at least blame the right europeans and they happen to be the ones dying for you in Iraq.

[Macs.]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

The question is: Why don't we send troops ?

The answer is: Because Schröder would piss his pants.

[Javehn]

economic sanctions against Sudan will make things only worse. And the militias would be the least affected anyway...

Government backed militia called Ganja-Weed (it's real :roll: :) ) , so the sanctions will help in certain ammount .

The problem is , that great UN have ****load of Arab-Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent . They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government .

[scott]

The problem is , that great UN have ****load of Arab-Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent . They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government .

pakistan and algeria being the only "arab-islamic" countries on the SC right now

know your topic

[Tane Angle]

Regarding deployments, yeah, we're a bit busy. For better or for worse, we are, I'm very sorry to say. Having said that, there are a few European nations who's efforts in Sudan would be very much appreciated. Some are doing all they can already in Iraq, Afghanistan, or both. Some could do more.

Question here though; if peacekeepers go in, is it likely that another AQO strain will do the same thing al-Zarqawi's strain has done in Iraq? Kidnappings, bombings, etc? Not that that's reason not to go in, but it's worth keeping in mind, perhaps.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Javehn]

The problem is , that great UN have ****load of Arab-Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent . They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government .

pakistan and algeria being the only "arab-islamic" countries on the SC right now

know your topic


But a resolution even hinting at sanctions against Sudan — which denies backing the Janjaweed — could face opposition from Arab and Islamic countries on the Security Council.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124351,00.html

By the way , you forgot Angola with a large Islamic population , and Benin as well , with pretty interesting percentage of Muslim population . And what is more important , they do have some sort of "bias" towards Sudan , as an African country .

[cut]

The problem is , that great UN have ****load of Arab-Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent . They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government .

pakistan and algeria being the only "arab-islamic" countries on the SC right now

know your topic

pakistan is not an arab country

[Nizark]

Because we don't need to get involved in another arab focused military event. The African Union said that 300 troops will be sent into Sudan very soon, and I woudlnt be suprised if Pakistan is willing to send in troops under a UN flag.

Sadly, the only people who get involved in Africa are the former colonial powers whenever their former colonies fall to ****. The US got involved in Liberia because it is made up of former American slaves. Also, the rest of the world is still suffering from the Somali syndrome. No one cares about Africa outside the continent, and within Africa, governments are so jacked up, and generally dealing with their own problems that they cannot do very much to help.

[scm77]

The guy who posted this thread sure is dumb.

Possibly one of the worst planned, attempted flame war starters ever.

Sudan has no oil! :cantbeli:

[scott]

The problem is , that great UN have ****load of Arab-Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent . They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government .

pakistan and algeria being the only "arab-islamic" countries on the SC right now

know your topic


But a resolution even hinting at sanctions against Sudan — which denies backing the Janjaweed — could face opposition from Arab and Islamic countries on the Security Council.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124351,00.html

By the way , you forgot Angola with a large Islamic population , and Benin as well , with pretty interesting percentage of Muslim population . And what is more important , they do have some sort of "bias" towards Sudan , as an African country .


alright- benin (20% muslim) ill concede that as an "interesting percentage", but definitely not the number one or even two religion in the country so caling it an islamic country is plain wrong
angola? islam is not even close to being its primary religion

as for a bias from any country in africa, so should no african countries be represented on the world stage because they may be biased?

as for pakistan not fitting in as an "arab-islamic" country, youre right cut, it isnt an arab country, but im pretty sure javehn was referring to arab or islamic countries, which i certainly was

as for the fox news article itself, yes it does in fact state the abovementioned quote, but since its the only statement in the entire article mentioning any opposition to sanctions- i imagine its your anti-UN sentiment proclaiming that "that great UN have ****load [2 actually] of Arab [or] Islamic members in security council , makes our great UN impotent [we will argue this for some time]. They will act against the sanctions vote against "fellow" Muslim government [remains to be seen, and even if they do 15-2 still makes 13]."

[scott]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

a great source for learning more about other countries
their religions for starters...

[scott]

Sudan has no oil! :cantbeli:

thats sarcasm right?
please god tell me yes

[Midav]

dummersoldat makes a thread then scurries away like a cockroach.

How appropriate ;)

Komm doch raus du Karkalake rofl

[Midav]

U.S. Urges UN to Get Ready to Act on Sudan's Darfur

Mon Jul 12, 3:53 PM ET

WASHINGTON (*******) - The United States said Sudan's government has not done enough to end an unfolding humanitarian crisis in Dafur and urged the United Nations (news - web sites) on Monday to be ready to act against Khartoum if it fails to stop Arab militia attacking African villagers in the remote region.

Almost two weeks after Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) flew to Sudan to demand the Sudanese government disarm the militia, Washington showed its impatience.

It called on the United Nations prepare for a resolution that would sanction militia leaders and could pave the way for action against Sudan's government in what Powell calls "the race against death."

"We've seen more words than action at this point," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher. "We think the (Security) Council should be ready to move on a resolution if it becomes clear that the Sudanese government is not carrying out its pledges and its promises to take action."

The Security Council has been divided over a resolution with Pakistan, Algeria, Brazil and others said to be wary of any embargoes. Veto-holders China and Russia also have doubts.

No U.N. action against Sudan appeared likely until council members hear later this week from Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites), who is abroad on a trip that has included a visit to Sudan.

"We're looking forward to hearing from the secretary general when he returns ... And in the meantime, we'll continue to prepare the resolution with other members of the Council," Boucher told reporters.

U.S. officials hope the threat of the resolution will spur Sudan to end what it says is ethic cleansing that has driven more than a million villagers from their homes and killed tens of thousands.

Khartoum has lifted travel restrictions for aid workers, cooperated with the African Union, which is deploying cease-fire monitors in the region, and there have been reports of some arrests of militia fighters, said Boucher.

But he called it a "mixed picture" and said there are still reports of violence and obstacles to humanitarian relief.

Marauding government-backed militias known as Janjaweed have put hundreds of thousands at risk of death from starvation or illness as the rainy season approaches, U.S. officials say.

Khartoum, which denies it backs the militia, has pledged to disarm the Janjaweed, remove them from areas near refugee camps and provide a police force for the border areas between Sudan and Chad, where tens of thousands have fled.

Here (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040712/wl_nm/sudan_usa_dc_1)

[SwissGrenadier]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

The question is: Why don't we send troops ?

The answer is: Because Schröder would piss his pants.

exactly, the cdu needs to run things in germany. germany-->awesome country that is,at the moment, governed by ****heads. just take a look at schroeder or fischer rofl
go merkel go stoiber go CDU woot

hahahaha very well said Midav :)

dummersoldat hau doch ab, du gehst hier jedem auf den sack, wichser :fork:

[Tane Angle]

Well what's the status of the NATO and EU RDFs? I know one was scheduled for eventual deployment to Afghanistan, perhaps at least elements of that force can be sent to Sudan within a few weeks? Probably not, but my point is that there are units in Europe available, if need be. With all due respect to the Spanish, perhaps they could send troops there, since Iraq is out of the question?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Stl. boy]

I thought i saw an article a few weeks ago that said that Annan had given Sudan an altimatem, stop or we are coming. It was a short one too, something like 1 week. I think that Sudan will be the next place that we deploy, if we can free up some of our troops from somewhere or get some help.

[Midav]

exactly, the cdu needs to run things in germany. germany-->awesome country that is,at the moment, governed by ****heads. just take a look at schroeder or fischer rofl
go merkel go stoiber go CDU woot

hahahaha very well said Midav :)

dummersoldat hau doch ab, du gehst hier jedem auf den sack, wichser :fork:

rofl

[sgt.pepper]

memories of somalia action are still alive

[Macs.]

memories of somalia action are still alive

Don't think this that is a problem.
The lesson in somalia has been learned.

[mocking_loudly_died]

hi,

i have a short question, why arent the us forces in sudan? there are dying every day more people, than in iraq before the saddam regime.
probably because there is no oil?

ciao

This is the perfect example of boring Anti-American comments, it's not even original.

[admar2]

funny how Chirac opposes sending the NATO rapid reaction force to Afghanistan because it is supposed to be used for "emergencies"

I don't hear chirac clammering for them to be deployed in Sudan, if that isn't an emergency, WTF is?

and of course, as per usual, the UN is completely ****ing useless.

[Kilgor]

memories of somalia action are still alive

Don't think this that is a problem.
The lesson in somalia has been learned.

Didnt somalia have ****ed up ROE to make the problems much worse ?

[sgt.pepper]

Macs i hope that this is true

[Pille1234]

memories of somalia action are still alive

Don't think this that is a problem.
The lesson in somalia has been learned.
The lesson from somalia is: Don't interfere in Africa when there's nothing to win but much to loose. However, when a few more refugee ships travel to italy and the first thousands arrive in Germany the situation may change...
And dummersoldat, this was amateurish. There are more than enough reasons to show why the Americans are all wrong, but your trial was really lame. :P
Even Ariweiner did better than you.

[maw]

There are more than enough reasons to show why the Americans are all wrong,

care to elaborate?

[Pille1234]

There are more than enough reasons to show why the Americans are all wrong,

care to elaborate?
I used that exaggeration as stylistic device, but you agree with me that there are enough political aspects which are, well, arguable? The question why there are no US Soldiers in Sudan is surly not one of these aspects.

[maw]

sudan is one of the rare things i can actually talk about here. i've been there twice and we've had several discussions on this topic here before.
firstly, the recent darfur conflict is more a of a tribal conflict as opposed to the original civil war that consumed the south for so long. the motivation behind this conflict is more along the lines of retribution and suppresion, whereas the conflict in teh south was a jihad-like convet or die ethnic cleansing campaign.
another issue is that there really isn't an effective and organized spla equivalent that can be armed to counter the militia and sudanese army.
thirdly, if you walk around in khartoum you'll see a positive attitiude towards the west among the general populace. all of that foreign aid has bought us plenty of good will. these people don't hate us (yet) and there's no reason to make them start now. the point being don't invade sudan in the conventional sense.
lastly, sudan's a pretty big country. 300 soldiers ain't gonna do squat. best low cost, low profile solution is to setup a fly zone buffer over the western side of the country patrolled by cas capable assets and deploy myriads of roving civilian (un) observers equiped with satcom.

[WestCoastG's]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

[cut]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

:cantbeli:

[WestCoastG's]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

:cantbeli:

A country destroying itself with civil war is very entertaining. Here in America we have never had a civil war. The definition of a civil war is when a faction tries to overthrow the goverment, back in the 1860's it was to countries against each other

[Secret Squirrel]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

:cantbeli:

A country destroying itself with civil war is very entertaining. Here in America we have never had a civil war. The definition of a civil war is when a faction tries to overthrow the goverment, back in the 1860's it was to countries against each other

I guess you should go and give this "information" to American civil war historians. Though they might reply that a civil war is a war between factions or regions of the same country (ie. in this case, Union and Confederacy). Your definition of a civil war would be the definition of a military coup?

[cut]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

:cantbeli:

A country destroying itself with civil war is very entertaining. Here in America we have never had a civil war. The definition of a civil war is when a faction tries to overthrow the goverment, back in the 1860's it was to countries against each other

if you think of war in terms of tv and video games to the extent that you think that thousands of people dying in a struggle over control of a country is entertaining, then you won't last long around here.

[usa320]

YOu know what, were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

If we dont take action in Sudan, were neglecting the innocent people.

If we do take action in Sudan, were spreading the zionist conspiracy.

I say let france and germany deal with it if they are so concerned.

WE would deal with it, but the second a US marine steps foot in Sudan france will start bitching excessively.

We TRIED to pass a UN resolution regarding this, but of course France blocked it.

THe moral of the story is France lacks the balls to do anything other than be a roadblock to progress and stability.

[cut]

YOu know what, were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

If we dont take action in Sudan, were neglecting the innocent people.

If we do take action in Sudan, were spreading the zionist conspiracy.

I say let france and germany deal with it if they are so concerned.

WE would deal with it, but the second a US marine steps foot in Sudan france will start bitching excessively.

We TRIED to pass a UN resolution regarding this, but of course France blocked it.

THe moral of the story is France lacks the balls to do anything other than be a roadblock to progress and stability.

Shouldn't you perhaps read the thread before posting in it?

Which UN resolution are you referring to?

Please don't tell me you think sanctions would lead to stability in this situation.

[Midtown]

if u feel so strongly about it how about getting germany and france to roll up their sleeves and show the rest of us how it's done....oops those governments lack the backbone to try, sorry my mistake

damn dude, for once i agree completly with you.

[Tane Angle]

With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.


A country destroying itself with civil war is very entertaining. Here in America we have never had a civil war. The definition of a civil war is when a faction tries to overthrow the goverment, back in the 1860's it was to countries against each other

You're welcome. That is, glad to have entertained you. I can't even tell you how pleased I am to know that the deaths of many good folks I have served with entertained you. What is this, gladiators? It is not a video game. Those are real people with real lives, real children being orphaned, real wives being widowed, and most of the dead are real innocent civilians being slaughtered. How about when we present our flag to the widows, is that entertaining too? Or what about Landstuhl after the maimed are brought in?

So what is civil war really? Maybe it is the kid in the market picking up an some fruit to see the pin-less grenade meant for his father. Or maybe civil war is seeing a little girl lying in the middle of the street and turning her over to see half her skull blown away. Or maybe it's the mortar and artillery attacks that completely miss their targets, but that's ok, because they still end up leveling schools full of children. Or the sniper who only wounds the pregnant mother who lives next door to you so that others will be lured into the street to help her. Or carrying your de facto sister's limp, broken body into the clinic that is run by a terrorist group (because they're the only people who even remotely care about these people) and having to tell her parents-who might as well be your own parents-that she's dead and that it was for nothing. Where was she killed? At work, at another clinic. A few RPGs blew it away. Or maybe it's the two checkpoints on opposite sides of the no-man's land who both light up approaching cars, only to find the Shiites just put an RPG in a car full of chador-clad women and the only thing left of the vehicle the Christians shot at is a dangling crucifix and half a baby. Is that what entertainment is today? Because that sure as heck is what civil war is. Again, I'm so glad that it's entertaining.

I have seen civil war, up close and personal. I ate, breathed, slept, and bled it, and in the middle of it. We should count our blessings that we have not had such a war in recent history. They are not entertainment.

As always, have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[maw]

that's not funny. some of the members here have seen real suffering first hand. these are human beings you're sneering at, and you are less of one today for posting such garbage.


:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

[WestCoastG's]

:| With all the diseases and wars, Africans are just gonna kill each other off, whats the point of intervening when we leave it'll just start back again, plus it makes for some great t.v.

:cantbeli:

A country destroying itself with civil war is very entertaining. Here in America we have never had a civil war. The definition of a civil war is when a faction tries to overthrow the goverment, back in the 1860's it was to countries against each other

I guess you should go and give this "information" to American civil war historians. Though they might reply that a civil war is a war between factions or regions of the same country (ie. in this case, Union and Confederacy). Your definition of a civil war would be the definition of a military coup?

The **** the union and the confederacy were two different ****in countries, not factions dumbass. They had their own systems of goverments and everything. And to all yalls sensitive folks who think im less of a human being rember that im da #1 Stunna wa wa waa

[Ratamacue]

I used to think that we should keep you around for entertainment value, but you're crossing the line. Shape up or get the f*ck out, man.

[Tane Angle]

Actually factions having their own systems of government with codefied laws, judicial systems, and law enforcement, not to mention their own social programs such as medical care and education, are rather common in "modern" civil wars. The civil war I saw the most was complete with states-within-a-state, tank battles, fighter-bombers buzzing cities, air combat, and very skilled and disciplined infantry. Had the tactics of the day been to march in lines towards the enemy, they would have done likewise, but the tactics of the day were to use those modern weapons, so they did.

Also, showing respect can often earn respect. Some people don't care about getting any respect. But agree with him or not, vulgar language is not very impressive.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Sir Zach of R.]

Guys, don't pay attention to WestCoastG's. He's just another whiteboy/gangsta wannabe. Plus he's 14, which is actually a major minus. In fact, don't even read this post. I'm just really pissed right now. :fork:

[garyfanclub]

Guys, don't pay attention to WestCoastG's. He's just another whiteboy/gangsta wannabe. Plus he's 14, which is actually a major minus. In fact, don't even read this post. I'm just really pissed right now. :fork:

You're right, I just read some of the stuff he posted and it's apalling. Like Ratamacue said, shape up or ship out.

[fantassin]

France in Sudan ? actually we are already quite busy as it is at the moment;

-550 men in Bosnia
-2,600 in Kosovo
-<100 in Sahara
-1,100 in Senegal
-<100 in Liberia
-4,300 in Ivory Coast
-800 in Gabon
-<100 Congo
-<100 Burundi
-200 Central African Republic
-1,000 Chad
-2,800 Djibouti
-700 Indian Ocean
-<100 Ethiopia/Erythrea
-1,300 Afghanistan
-<100 Sinai
-200 Lebanon
-<100 Georgia
-<100 Macedonia

These are the figures for July, 2004.

I'd be interested to see figures of other countries with such a high permanent military presence in Africa....and I am not just talking about having training grounds there.

[Ratamacue]

Guys, don't pay attention to WestCoastG's. He's just another whiteboy/gangsta wannabe. Plus he's 14, which is actually a major minus. In fact, don't even read this post. I'm just really pissed right now. :fork:
You're right, I just read some of the stuff he posted and it's apalling. Like Ratamacue said, shape up or ship out.
No, I said "shape up or get the f*ck out," but it's the same difference. ;)


But agree with him or not, vulgar language is not very impressive.
Yeah, but vulgar language is pretty much for regular use in my vocabulary, I don't save it for special occasions.