Spain, now Philipines...whos next

[StealthMode]

Breaking news says that Pilipino troops will be withdrawn as soon as possible to save the life of a hostage says deputy foriegn minister.

Im so pist off right now... :fork:

Hey everyone, lets tell the Terrorist that the hostage taking tactic works and insure that they will do it again.

Thank you Spain, Thank you Philipines.

Although your contribution to the coalition is appreciated, you have now ensured that hostage taking and killing will be a problem with no end in sight, and its regretable effect has more of an impact than your contribution militarily.

(sarcasim) Its great that when you withdraw your troops it shows those terrorist that kidnapping one person can change the national policy of an entire nation

[MEGR]

Phillipines were going to pull out in Aug. anyways. That date (AUG 20th i think) was set before the hostage taking.

[cut]

please tell me you're not going to moan over 51 filipino peacekeepers?

the only reason they were they was so that another country name could put down as making a contribution to stop this looking like a US-UK project.

[Deuterium]

There are more Fillipinos in ANY of KBR's messhalls than military. Don't worry, The Phillipines is in it for the long haul.

[Flagg]

I can understand how this came about.

The PI are amongst the most susceptible to caving in as they have over 7 million expat workers around the globe, with the majority located in the Middle East.

These same workers are a substantial part of the PI economy as the expats workers send a massive amount of capital home.

If this spigot was to be turned off it would impact the PI economy enormously.

It is something that is more likely to affect the day to day lives/activities of the average PI citizen than someone who lives elsewhere.

Unfortunate.....but it shouldn't be unexpected.

[StealthMode]

Yeah, I understand they only had a month left. And I am aware that they only had roughly 50 people there. But it is totally the principal.
I also understand we will receive help that deuterium has pointed out.

However, the principal is... that they are pulling out 50 troops a month early which is a success for the terrorist.

It is only going to cause this trend to escalate after Spain and Philipines.

I am no longer pist off. I am happy now.. see :D

[ZeroPositive]

they aren't pulling out any earlier due to the hostage takers not releasing the hostage....

[Midav]

Another one bites the dust.....

[StealthMode]

Actually Zero Positive: They are leaving because of the hostage.

[Nizark]

The phillpinos have over 3000 workers in Iraq, working primarily for the US military, and they have said that there is a 'workers freeze' so no more will be 'allowed' in..if those workers were told to leave, then it would be a problem. The 51 troops don't mean crap besides making the OP seem like a multinational event.

[StukaJr]

So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead...

That's a great way to encourage future terrorist acts - to show how easily you bend in wind and under political preassure... Dispicable! I thought that Philipines would be a more determined ally in this fight - with the islamic extremists making base on their own territory and US being major aid in fighting it...

[cut]

So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead...

That's a great way to encourage future terrorist acts - to show how easily you bend in wind and under political preassure... Dispicable! I thought that Philipines would be a more determined ally in this fight - with the islamic extremists making base on their own territory and US being major aid in fighting it...

:roll:

it's not in their intrests to be there.

[Kilgor]

If the labor party in australia wins in the upcomming election, some of our troops are definately gone. This has been a major point of their campaigning too.

After events in spain, I dont think its a wise idea.

Spain is close to africa, and we are close to indonesia... do the math. :(

[Mongrel]

Cut wrote:
"So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead... "

Wouldn't happen.
On their own soil you can bet these scumbag terrorists would be toast.

Cheers!
M.

[He219]

:roll:
it's not in their intrests to be there.
How do you know what their best interests are? (I just want a Pepsi)
;)

They are fighting their own Islamist insurgency with US assistance. Makes sense that they reciprocate that in their own ways ...

[ShadowNeo]

So they are pulling out, just under a month early, to secure a mans life?

Doesn't seem that bad a choice.

[Deuterium]

Cut wrote:
"So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead... "

Wouldn't happen.
On their own soil you can bet these scumbag terrorists would be toast.

Cheers!
M.

Well so why are we sending Green Berets to train/advise the PI to fight the AQ presence in the PI?????

[cut]

Cut wrote:
"So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead... "

Wouldn't happen.
On their own soil you can bet these scumbag terrorists would be toast.

Cheers!
M.

I didn't write that! check the previous posts

[StealthMode]

ShadowNeo and others!!

You dont seem to understand. Yes, you are pulling out to save a mans life. 1 mans life. The effect of showing the terrorist that this works, means that many MANY more (more than 1 man) will be kidnapped and killied by countries who will not bend. Because they think they are saving 1 mans life, they are actually causing the death of MANY more in the future by this same tactic.

The country is greater than the man. I know if you are that man, you would want your country to listen. But a country simply SHOULD not show terrorist that these actions cause national policy changes.

My anger is returning

[cut]

:roll:
it's not in their intrests to be there.
How do you know what their best interests are? (I just want a Pepsi)
;)

They are fighting their own Islamist insurgency with US assistance. Makes sense that they reciprocate that in their own ways ...

simple put yourself in their situation. Obviously you can't know exactly but you can get a fair idea. It's no different for the phillipines then it is for all the other minor contributors. And many Brits feel the same we even if we get a share (albeit ****e) of the goodies.

[StukaJr]

Cut wrote:
"So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead... "

Wouldn't happen.
On their own soil you can bet these scumbag terrorists would be toast.

Cheers!
M.

If they "would be toast" - how do you explain Abu Sayaf and other islamic sepparatists terrorizing Phillipines for decades, military and law enforcement unable to stomp them out?

Just one weakness shown after another

[Secret Squirrel]

ShadowNeo and others!!

You dont seem to understand. Yes, you are pulling out to save a mans life. 1 mans life. The effect of showing the terrorist that this works, means that many MANY more (more than 1 man) will be kidnapped and killied by countries who will not bend. Because they think they are saving 1 mans life, they are actually causing the death of MANY more in the future by this same tactic.

The country is greater than the man. I know if you are that man, you would want your country to listen. But a country simply SHOULD not show terrorist that these actions cause national policy changes.

My anger is returning

They're going to kidnap anyway. Kidnapping is a no win situation for most countries simply because if they give in then some will hold it up as a victory for the terrorists, and if they dont give in and the hostage dies then some will blame the government for not doing enough. This will not contribute to more hostage taking as terrorists seem to take hostages whenever they can because it gives them a spotlight in the media.

[ShadowNeo]

You dont seem to understand. Yes, you are pulling out to save a mans life. 1 mans life. The effect of showing the terrorist that this works, means that many MANY more (more than 1 man) will be kidnapped and killied by countries who will not bend. Because they think they are saving 1 mans life, they are actually causing the death of MANY more in the future by this same tactic.

This situation is different. The Phillipines was going to pull them out anyway, and the difference is measured in days, not by months or even years compared to other countries committed militarily.

[StukaJr]

Clear and loud message to Abu Sayaf:

"Open season on civilian kidnappings to provide funding for the terrorist networks - apparently, we have no balls nor resolve"

So the withdrawl of the Phillipine's forces will be pushed up as far as possible - even a day, that's still negotiation with the terrorists and clear show of inneptitude in counter terrorist resolve... Take law enforcement - a small percentage of kidnap victims get kidnapped multiple times by the same abductors - Phillipines is now a good return customer with proven pay history...

I secretely hope this is somewhat of a ploy to recover the man back or hoping for the kidnappers getting sloppy with success...

[ShadowNeo]

[quote]So the withdrawl of the Phillipine's forces will be pushed up as far as possible - even a day, that's still negotiation with the terrorists and clear show of inneptitude in counter terrorist resolve... Take law enforcement - a small percentage of kidnap victims get kidnapped multiple times by the same abductors - a Phillipines is now a good return customer...[/quote

Nice of you to say the Phillipines has "no balls" and lack resolve, but do you know the situation in their country and what they face?

[StukaJr]

[quote]So the withdrawl of the Phillipine's forces will be pushed up as far as possible - even a day, that's still negotiation with the terrorists and clear show of inneptitude in counter terrorist resolve... Take law enforcement - a small percentage of kidnap victims get kidnapped multiple times by the same abductors - a Phillipines is now a good return customer...[/quote

Nice of you to say the Phillipines has "no balls" and lack resolve, but do you know the situation in their country and what they face?

That was my point - fight terrorism on your own land and abroad (once you put yourself up to the task). Fail abroad - fail at home.

I have an inkling about what goes on in Phillipines and a number of reasons that plaque the hunt for Abu Sayaf and other sepparatists.

Phillipines fought both Communist and Islamic sepparatists for hundreds of years and have nothing but my respect for the formidable task - my "no balls" comment should be mainly read towards Prime Minister's statement... I'm a little confused at the sudden statement. Unfortunately, the leaders often represent the direction of the entire nation - even if the entire nation is left opposed/divided

[StealthMode]

Again, yes they had less than one month, days. BUT, again, the principal is going to make this bad.

Never before has hostage taking been takin to THIS media level EVER.

These terrorists are taking any person they can kidnap from ANY country, and then letting the media globally give them instant power beyond any of us will ever see.

This is an epidemic. They are realizing now that THIS is the tactic to use to put goverments in the "no-win" situation that secret squirel had stated.

And these kidnappings wouldnt go on forever, after they realize that after so many times of not getting what they want, they will abdondon it.

[Mongrel]

Oops sorry Cut..wrong copy pasted name. :D

StukaJr wrote:
"If they "would be toast" - how do you explain Abu Sayaf and other islamic sepparatists terrorizing Phillipines for decades, military and law enforcement unable to stomp them out?

Just one weakness shown after another"

Dude: You don't know what you are talking about.
If the mighty strong US and its 'war on terror' is anything to go by one can see how hard it is to get every one in these groups/cells...where is Bin Laden?

Now add to that the fact that the Philipines is about 1500 islands each with its own group of people, and with many diffrent lang', and Cultures. Not a picnic logistics wise, and a problem only they can deal with.

I've been told from good sources that they don't hesitate to remove the scumbags from the earth when they do catch them, and that Negotiation with a terroist is often done with a machetti to the neck...

I don't blame them for pulling out of Iraq, why the hell not?
IMHO No one should be sent there if they do not have good protection.

Cheers!
M.

[ShadowNeo]

If we're on the subject of "principles"

Lets hark back to Abu Graib shall we (yes I can hear the sighs and see the rolling of eyes) but wasn't the principal of abusing Muslim prisoners in those ways damaging? Could it be said that the principal has made relations in Iraq, somewhat worse?

Before wagging fingers and tut tutting, we should remember that the Philipines may not be the only nation that has done something that in principal, may have adversely affected the situation in Iraq ;).

[StukaJr]

Oops sorry Cut..wrong copy pasted name. :D

StukaJr wrote:
"If they "would be toast" - how do you explain Abu Sayaf and other islamic sepparatists terrorizing Phillipines for decades, military and law enforcement unable to stomp them out?

Just one weakness shown after another"

Dude: You don't know what you are talking about.
If the mighty strong US and its 'war on terror' is anything to go by one can see how hard it is to get every one in these groups/cells...where is Bin Laden?

Now add to that the fact that the Philipines is about 1500 islands each with its own group of people, and with many diffrent lang', and Cultures. Not a picnic logistics wise, and a problem only they can deal with.

I've been told from good sources that they don't hesitate to remove the scumbags from the earth when they do catch them, and that Negotiation with a terroist is often done with a machetti to the neck...

I don't blame them for pulling out of Iraq, why the hell not?
IMHO No one should be sent there if they do not have good protection.

Cheers!
M.

I'm not quiestioning fortitude or vigilance of Phillipine's soldiers, police or CT units in conjunction with US SF acting as advisors over there - let's get that straight. However, it's well known that their efforts are greately plaqued by some corrupt politicians - that's a well known fact.

However, giving into terrorists' demands is bad for national security and especially for the nation's citizens - abroad on travel or on their land with all the extremists calling it home. Phillipines has a lot more ground to give - you just don't know what terrorists may demand next in exchange for the next Phillipino they kidnap.

[StukaJr]

If we're on the subject of "principles"

Lets hark back to Abu Graib shall we (yes I can hear the sighs and see the rolling of eyes) but wasn't the principal of abusing Muslim prisoners in those ways damaging? Could it be said that the principal has made relations in Iraq, somewhat worse?

Before wagging fingers and tut tutting, we should remember that the Philipines may not be the only nation that has done something that in principal, may have adversely affected the situation in Iraq ;).

What does that have to do with kidnapping and beheading of foreign civilians??? Abu Graib prisoners not abused because they were Muslim - first of all :bash: They were interogated to give up their RPG totting buddies... I'm sure most of them had plenty of blood on their hands - unlike the civilian contractors whom were beheaded...

I'm sure those "abuse" pictures were not so shocking if captions said exactly why each man was being "treated" the way they have been - the same way the killed RPG gunner in the middle of the street evokes not a single emotion of compassion...

[ShadowNeo]

What does that have to do with kidnapping and beheading of foreign civilians??? They were not abused because they were Muslim - first of all They were interogated to give up their RPG totting buddies... I'm sure most of them had plenty of blood on their hands - unlike the civilian contractors whom were beheaded...

Motion Denied!

Seems I am not the only one guilty of missing the point of another's posts.

Keyword: principle.

The fact that the prisoners were not simply abused because they were Muslims does not matter. The principle of Americans abusing Iraqis/Muslims is what caused the damage.

Just like although the Phillipines may be withdrawing its troops only with a short difference from their designated withdrawal date, the principle that they somehow conceded to the terrorists may cause damage.

Understand now?

[Mongrel]

StukaJr wrote: "However, it's well known that their efforts are greately plaqued by some corrupt politicians - that's a well known fact."

BINGO! VERY TRUE!
Political corruption is an art form there.

It will be interesting to see what goes on with the US moving troops to that area.

BTW: Nice Avitar :D

Cheers!
M.

[cut]

It's no different for the phillipines then it is for all the other minor contributors..

Well, the others certainly don't have to worry about Jamaah Islamiyah operatives teaming with the various collection of Indonesian and other foreign fighters hiding in the hinterlands of the Lanao provinces with the separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front or the al-Qaeda-linked Abu Sayyaf terrorists on Jolo island conducting operations against the Philippine government on Mindanao.

The Bush Administration has provided Manila with more than $400 million in U.S. aid for combat against local terrorist groups in addition to Iraq related funding.

;)

yes but if anything that would make it even less worth going to Iraq, let alone staying there for them.

[He219]

It's no different for the phillipines then it is for all the other minor contributors..

Well, the others certainly don't have to worry about Jamaah Islamiyah operatives teaming with the various collection of Indonesian and other foreign fighters hiding in the hinterlands of the Lanao provinces with the separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front or the al-Qaeda-linked Abu Sayyaf terrorists on Jolo island conducting operations against the Philippine government on Mindanao.

The Bush Administration has provided Manila with more than $400 million in aid for combat against local terrorist groups in addition to Iraq related funding.

;)

[He219]

yes but if anything that would make it even less worth going to Iraq, let alone staying there for them.

$400 million reasons in favor ..
;)

[StukaJr]

Just like although the Phillipines may be withdrawing its troops only with a short difference from their designated withdrawal date, the principal that they somehow conceded to the terrorists may cause damage.

Understand now?

I definitely agree with that - principal of the actions is very damaging and may have negative reactions in the future. Especially in the case of Phillipines - with so many extrimist factions based on the island, maybe taking it as a green light to forward their own objectives by same means that seemingly worked overseas...

I may have misunderstood few points and flew of me high chair p-) Arrrrrrrr!

[Rush_die]

So that's how you take over Phillipines - take one hostage and demand the leadership of the country handed over or the hostage is dead...

That's a great way to encourage future terrorist acts - to show how easily you bend in wind and under political preassure... Dispicable! I thought that Philipines would be a more determined ally in this fight - with the islamic extremists making base on their own territory and US being major aid in fighting it...

as what the news here in the philippines says...we are not pulling out until august 10 or 20 i think....and thats the stand of our government...thats why many of the relatives of the hostage are dimayed by the decision...and there is an extension of the deadline given by the terrorist...and our government is negotiating for his release...thats why the hostage wife is in the mid-east for his anticipated release...

[Rush_die]

Clear and loud message to Abu Sayaf:

"Open season on civilian kidnappings to provide funding for the terrorist networks - apparently, we have no balls nor resolve"

So the withdrawl of the Phillipine's forces will be pushed up as far as possible - even a day, that's still negotiation with the terrorists and clear show of inneptitude in counter terrorist resolve... Take law enforcement - a small percentage of kidnap victims get kidnapped multiple times by the same abductors - Phillipines is now a good return customer with proven pay history...

I secretely hope this is somewhat of a ploy to recover the man back or hoping for the kidnappers getting sloppy with success...

open season for kidnapping???
i dont think so...abu sayyaf is out now...most of them are dead or captured...and i know it coz im leaving in mindanao...our place is much peaceful now than before...

[obd]

yeah, they are pulling out a month early to save a mans life....and there are very few to begin with, so its a win win situation right? WRONG......In the long term, this will only make Phillipines appear weak and yeilding to terrorist demands....but it will have the worst effect on those left behind in Iraq, especially some of the myriad of smaller nations who have small contingents in Iraq.......I think terrorists will see this as a victory and will only increase thier tactics accordingly......It was simply make more innocent nationals of various nations targets.........It will also increase the chances of war being taken to the doorsteps of nations by terrorists who think they can get political gain out of killing civilians.....such as in Spain...and we all know now that despite Muslum extremist communiques that they would "halt operations in Spain to thank them" the reality is that they had NO INTENTION of ever halting operations and were planning even more attacks, as made clear when one Spanish police officer was killed raiding a terror hideout....

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Yay! Score another one for team T! I want to refinance my house...I'm gonna take my banker hostage until they lower my interest rate enough!

Man, it's so easy to get what you want this way...strange it took us all so long to figure it out!

[AFG]

well i m glad that the hostage is alive.



AFG
Another Filipino Guy

[usa320]

Why would they trust the word of mad men anyway?

Watch they will pull out and they will still cut the guys head off, assuming they havent already.

[Helly]

ONCE AGAIN: the Philippines is pulling out its contingent as planned, on AUGUST 20. Not days early, not weeks early, etc. etc.

Philippine Star article (http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS_FLASH071320044_4.htm)
Phil. Daily Inquirer article (http://www.inq7.net/brk/2004/jul/13/brkofw_3-1.htm) (read the entire article, not just the headline)

[Ballistic]

If the labor party in australia wins in the upcomming election, some of our troops are definately gone. This has been a major point of their campaigning too.

I hope this doesnt happen...both of those things.

Not some....practically all troops will be gone except for a small security detachement to protect Embassy staff. Replaced by... "20 to 30 non-combat administrative, logistics and other personnel (either military or civilian) to help the reconstituted UN mission."

http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,10121727%255E421,00.html